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General Category => Amstrad CPC hardware => Topic started by: Neil79 on 18:44, 30 July 15

Title: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: Neil79 on 18:44, 30 July 15
I've had this Amstrad 6128 for awhile now, purchased with a refurbed disk drive from last year. However many of the games I've been purchasing that have apparently been tested, are loading as far as the start screen, game menu, then that's it. Just a black screen! Other games are working fine. Would this be an issue with the disks themselves or does my disk drive need another refurb?  >:(
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: TFM on 18:51, 30 July 15
Well, is there somebody in your (relative) vicinity who can test the discs?

Reasons for problems can be:
- Drive Belt goes bad (games have bad error compensation, part of their protection)
- Discs are bad (ebayers load the title screen and then tell it's 'ok')
- The drive head is a bit off the track (not completely, but a bit, so some discs can't be read)

I assume it't the latter one.


What can you do without anybodies disc drive?
Take a 'good' disc. Format it on your CPC, then use BD04 a couple of times to check it the disc is fine. Wait a day and check the disc again (or at least wait an hour)....
If the disc can be read all the time, then your drive belt is fine. Still you don't know if the other discs are bad, or if your read/write head of the drive is a bit off.

Hope this helps!
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: Neil79 on 19:25, 30 July 15
Cheers as always TFM  8)
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: Bryce on 22:01, 30 July 15
Give it a test with this: DskTest v0.1.47b (release?) (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/applications/dsktest-v0-1b/)
Check that the rpm hasn't drifted. If it has you can adjust it back to 300.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: TFM on 22:12, 30 July 15
Quote from: Bryce on 22:01, 30 July 15
Give it a test with this: DskTest v0.1.47b (release?) (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/applications/dsktest-v0-1b/)
Check that the rpm hasn't drifted. If it has you can adjust it back to 300.

Bryce.


Did you make some experiments actually. I'm really curious about it. IMHO the FDC is fine if the disc runs 10% more quick or slow, but I only know from theory. Did somebody ever test what works?

Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: Neil79 on 22:24, 30 July 15
Quote from: Bryce on 22:01, 30 July 15
Give it a test with this: DskTest v0.1.47b (release?) (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/applications/dsktest-v0-1b/)
Check that the rpm hasn't drifted. If it has you can adjust it back to 300.

Bryce.


Nice, how do you use this  through HxC though?  ;D
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: Bryce on 22:32, 30 July 15
It runs fine from HXC. That's where I have it stored. It runs fine from Drive B:

Bryce.

Edit: @TFM (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=179): Yes, it starts getting unreliable under 288 or above 310. Below 280 no disk is readable, never tested the upper limit. But this could also vary from drive to drive and it depends on how well the head adjustment is too.
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: Neil79 on 23:18, 30 July 15
I've just tried the RPM software as well and both software's including DSKTest are doing the same thing, driver light stays ON with no readout given in " Measure Spin RPM ". I've given it 20mins so far.
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: Bryce on 08:17, 31 July 15
Weird. Does it find index / sector / track X etc when it starts? (can't remember exactly what it goes looking for).

Maybe something went wrong when you downloaded and converted it?

Bryce.
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: Neil79 on 10:10, 31 July 15
Quote from: Bryce on 08:17, 31 July 15
Weird. Does it find index / sector / track X etc when it starts? (can't remember exactly what it goes looking for).

Maybe something went wrong when you downloaded and converted it?

Bryce.


That's what I thought, but when I select the HxC drive for a scan it works perfectly, says it has a read out of about 299.6. But the real drive, it falls on it's arse. I'll post in that dsktest thread you posted earlier and see if the developer gets back to me. As for sector etc, not sure
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: Bryce on 10:50, 31 July 15
Is the disk you have in A: possibly damaged? Can you try with a different disk in the drive?

Bryce.
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: Neil79 on 16:19, 31 July 15
Quote from: Bryce on 10:50, 31 July 15
Is the disk you have in A: possibly damaged? Can you try with a different disk in the drive?

Bryce.


Oh, I need a disk in the drive for it to be tested? I just thought it was motor related  :laugh:
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: Neil79 on 20:15, 31 July 15
Update : Just done a readout on the disk that only reads halfway, it's saying the rpm is at


305.08RPM - 310.08RPM
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: Neil79 on 20:48, 31 July 15
Well great, now I just f**** my drive up, nice little idea! Turned the screw as per instructions, loaded a disk for test *CLUNK*. Drive light stays on and wont read anything.


Absolutely fuming  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: gerald on 20:54, 31 July 15
Quote from: Neil79 on 20:48, 31 July 15
Well great, now I just f**** my drive up, nice little app this! Turned the screw as per instructions, loaded a disk for test *CLUNK*. Drive light stays on and wont read anything.


Absolutely fuming  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
An app cannot f**** your drive  ::)

Is the disk still spinning ?
Did you try turning the screw in the opposite direction ?

Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: Neil79 on 20:55, 31 July 15
Quote from: gerald on 20:54, 31 July 15
An app cannot f**** your drive  ::)

Is the disk still spinning ?
Did you try turning the screw in the opposite direction ?


An app cannot f**** your drive, thanks for the roll eye smiley, I seriously need that right about now


This is what F... my drive



Quote from: pacomix on 18:31, 22 June 13





The screw should be slightly turned if you only need an adjustment of a couple of RPMs. The black thingy you see there is a gum cover. Just insert your screw there and make a slight pressure. You shouldn't break anything!
There you have the picture!
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: gerald on 21:06, 31 July 15
Quote from: Neil79 on 20:55, 31 July 15
An app cannot f**** your drive, thanks for the roll eye smiley, I seriously need that right about now

More seriously :
- If the drive is spinning too fast, the FDC will not be able to read anything. Try turning in the opposite way.
- If the drive not spinning anymore you may have damaged the speed regulation PCB

Just seen your message on the other thread, is your screwdriver adapted to the variable resistor ? (see the 3rd picture on this page : Amstrad FDD part - CPCWiki (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Amstrad_FDD_part#Rotation_speed_adjustment))
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: Neil79 on 21:10, 31 July 15
Quote from: gerald on 21:06, 31 July 15
More seriously :
- If the drive is spinning too fast, the FDC will not be able to read anything. Try turning in the opposite way.
- If the drive not spinning anymore you may have damaged the speed regulation PCB

Just seen your message on the other thread, is your screwdriver adapted to the variable resistor ? (see the 3rd picture on this page : Amstrad FDD part - CPCWiki (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Amstrad_FDD_part#Rotation_speed_adjustment))


Most certainly this one.



http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:EME-156_RpmAdjust.jpg (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:EME-156_RpmAdjust.jpg)


The drive lights up ready to be accessed, but nothing happens in the drive itself.
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: Neil79 on 21:17, 31 July 15
and the motor stinks like it's been burnt out
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: gerald on 21:23, 31 July 15
Quote from: Neil79 on 21:10, 31 July 15

Most certainly this one.



http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:EME-156_RpmAdjust.jpg (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:EME-156_RpmAdjust.jpg)


The drive lights up ready to be accessed, but nothing happens in the drive itself.
I was more thing of this one, where you can see the variable resistor that sits under the rubber hole.
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:MMU-5B2LQJ_open.JPG (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:MMU-5B2LQJ_open.JPG)

If your screwdriver is too wide, you may not be able to turn it because you cannot insert it in the hole (which is only about 2mm wide).
Quote from: Neil79 on 21:17, 31 July 15
and the motor stinks like it's been burnt out
Or heating because it's spinning too fast ?
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: Neil79 on 21:24, 31 July 15
Quote from: gerald on 21:23, 31 July 15
I was more thing of this one, where you can see the variable resistor that sits under the rubber hole.
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:MMU-5B2LQJ_open.JPG (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:MMU-5B2LQJ_open.JPG)

If your screwdriver is too wide, you may not be able to turn it because you cannot insert it in the hole (which is only about 2mm wide).Or heating because it's spinning too fast ?


Ah yes, I think the screw driver is too wide. Hopefully I can get this fixed! Thanks for helping so far, sorry I'm so short atm, just angry and worried
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: pelrun on 06:08, 01 August 15
You might have done what I did, and broke the potentiometer off inside the motor (unlike the one pictured in the wiki page, my motor had the components on the inside of the PCB, and the pot was reached through a small hole. Pushing too hard with a too-wide screwdriver pushed it right off the board.


I managed to repair my motor, but it was a damn fiddly job, and it's running without the lid which was impossible to snap back in.
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: gerald on 09:25, 01 August 15
Quote from: pelrun on 06:08, 01 August 15
You might have done what I did, and broke the potentiometer off inside the motor (unlike the one pictured in the wiki page, my motor had the components on the inside of the PCB, and the pot was reached through a small hole.
Can you post the reference of the motor and/or picture ?
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: simondo on 09:45, 01 August 15
Sorry to jump in but I'm having the same issue with a DDI-1 / FD-1:

I replaced the drive belt, cleaned capstans and head in my DDI-1. CPC464 edge connectors and DDI-1 connections cleaned with isopropanol.

However approx. 50%of my game disks including my beloved UN Squadron give 'read error'. The UN Squadron disk is part of a 3 disk US Gold collection, all of which give 'read error'. All my populated Maxell and Dixons 3" disks cat and load fine.

Interestingly my SWIV game disk began to load, hung and now reports 169k free  ???. It is also strange that it is just my commercial game disks that are affected.

Is this the same issue as Neil79? I was planning on getting a HxC and modding DDI-1 and cable as per Bryce's guide, so is the procedure with the disk tool and adjustment the same for a DDI-1 / FD-1?
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: Neil79 on 11:04, 01 August 15
Quote from: pelrun on 06:08, 01 August 15
I managed to repair my motor, but it was a damn fiddly job, and it's running without the lid which was impossible to snap back in.


Do tell? Also how do you take that bloody lid off  :laugh:


Ps Simondo, what ever you do, don't touch it, it's not worth the risk
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: gerald on 11:12, 01 August 15
Quote from: simondo on 09:45, 01 August 15
Sorry to jump in but I'm having the same issue with a DDI-1 / FD-1:

I replaced the drive belt, cleaned capstans and head in my DDI-1. CPC464 edge connectors and DDI-1 connections cleaned with isopropanol.

However approx. 50%of my game disks including my beloved UN Squadron give 'read error'. The UN Squadron disk is part of a 3 disk US Gold collection, all of which give 'read error'. All my populated Maxell and Dixons 3" disks cat and load fine.
If all the disks your drive has written can load but not the commercial one it is likely an alignment problem. This cannot be fixed easily. You need at least an oscilloscope to do it.

Quote from: simondo on 09:45, 01 August 15
Interestingly my SWIV game disk began to load, hung and now reports 169k free  ??? . It is also strange that it is just my commercial game disks that are affected.
SWIV has not file in the directory structure, so that's expected. You start it by |CPM

Quote from: simondo on 09:45, 01 August 15
Is this the same issue as Neil79? I was planning on getting a HxC and modding DDI-1 and cable as per Bryce's guide, so is the procedure with the disk tool and adjustment the same for a DDI-1 / FD-1?
The speed adjustment is valid for DDI/FDI and internal drive. A first step is to just check the speed. Now the issue will be to transfer the tool (I am personnally using RPM) to disk.
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: gerald on 11:17, 01 August 15
Quote from: Neil79 on 11:04, 01 August 15
Do tell? Also how do you take that bloody lid off  :laugh:
The one on the wiki had a soldering point that connected the lid to the PCB. You 1st need to remove that soldering point.
Next is to get the lid out of the motor shell, and since it is forced in, that's not an easy task. :D
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: Neil79 on 11:30, 01 August 15
Quote from: gerald on 11:17, 01 August 15
The one on the wiki had a soldering point that connected the lid to the PCB. You 1st need to remove that soldering point.
Next is to get the lid out of the motor shell, and since it is forced in, that's not an easy task. :D


Na mine's just like this http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:EME-156_RpmAdjust.jpg (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:EME-156_RpmAdjust.jpg)


But how to get it out when there only place to get a screwdriver in, is near the electrical points  ???
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: gerald on 11:39, 01 August 15
Quote from: Neil79 on 11:30, 01 August 15

Na mine's just like this http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:EME-156_RpmAdjust.jpg (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:EME-156_RpmAdjust.jpg)


But how to get it out when there only place to get a screwdriver in, is near the electrical points  ???
The lid is connected at ground just where the brown wire is soldered to PCB.
Once this soldering is removed (with desoldering wick) the only access is indeed at the wire connection.
You need to protect it and make sure you do not break the PCB. Did I say it's not an easy task  ;)
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: Neil79 on 21:43, 01 August 15
Nope I can't do anything with it, so yeh I think I killed it. So much for just push the screwdriver in slightly and turn  :-[


Oh the lids off!!  :o :o :o  Found out why it wasn't working
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: Neil79 on 01:13, 02 August 15
 :o
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: pelrun on 08:39, 02 August 15
Ouch. Yeah, you did just what I did. :( Hopefully you're lucky and the winding on the rotor is ok; if it's shorted/damaged you probably can't fix it.

To repair it you'll need to solder on a replacement pot (I *think* it was 10k linear, the original pot should have "103" on it if it is, or 104 if it's 100k) and then reassemble it.

Reassembly requires that you remove the rotor from the casing (remove the casing from the drive; it's just held on by two screws.) so you can get the brushes back onto the commutator properly. And that means getting the capstan off the shaft. If you have/can get a pinion puller tool this will be easy, otherwise it'll be hard. I filed down a nail so that it was a little narrower than the shaft, put the motor vertical on a couple of blocks such that it was only held up by the casing and the rotor could fall out, then knocked the shaft out of the capstan using the nail and a hammer. Make sure you don't lose the thin plastic washers.

Edit: at this point carefully inspect the rotor and the casing(stator), and remove any metal shavings or debris that might be present.

Reassemble the rotor and the PCB, fitting the commutating ring between the brushes carefully, and so the shaft end fits into the plastic bearing in the centre of the pcb. Put the rotor back into the casing (will be hard because the magnets will pull it sideways) and the shaft through the end bearing, then set it upright on the bench and tap the capstan back onto the shaft with the hammer. This will probably mess up the plastic bearing on the other end a bit, but it wasn't an issue for me. Then use a couple of spots of hotglue to fix the pcb into the casing since you probably won't get the lid back on (I couldn't.)
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: simondo on 10:01, 02 August 15
gerald
Thanks. Had a look a the DDI-1 service manual at the alignment procedures. Although I have access to an oscilloscope I don't have a CF2 test disk. Also the procedure is quite technical, and where I work I only use an oscilloscope to do a simple check & adjust of waveforms generated from amplifiers.
When I get a HxC I will check rpm using disk check program, but beyond that, and as Neil79 says, it's not worth it in case I damage it.

Neil79
I feel your pain, and after your experience I may not bother tinkering any further. I hope you get it sorted, you've got the best support possible here.
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: gerald on 10:45, 02 August 15
The original pot seem OK, just pushed away from it soldering point (bad reflow ?). But re-assembly seems really tricky  :o

It looks like a MMA-6U2LEP drive. This one has a white rubber on the adjustment hole.
The one on the wiki is a MMU-5B2LQJ ans has a black rubber on the adjustment hole.
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: Bryce on 12:10, 02 August 15
I've repaired one of these in the past and I don't remember having to remove the rotor to get the PCB back in. There is a trick to getting the brushes back onto the commutator from above while it's in the case, but it takes a lot of poking around with a needle.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: Neil79 on 16:57, 02 August 15
Nope it's *****, the two strips of metal which seem to attach across to the center are damaged, I seriously can't be done with this now.


If I can't do a motor fix, i might as well ditch it and look towards putting the HxC inside the system
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: Bryce on 17:49, 02 August 15
Send it over and I'll sort it out.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: Neil79 on 18:17, 02 August 15
Quote from: Bryce on 17:49, 02 August 15
Send it over and I'll sort it out.

Bryce.


I've got one more chance at this, dad's a train engineer ( good with soldering etc )


I've got to ask this though, the two tiny flap metal brushes , look like fingers going towards the center. Do they need to be close to the center hole when placing it down, or far enough away then maneuvered back?



Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: Bryce on 08:33, 03 August 15
They're the brushes that supply the rotor with current. They should push relatively well against the commutator (metal ring around the shaft made of four seperate contacts) for the motor to work properly.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 - Not all disks are loading
Post by: pelrun on 11:25, 03 August 15
And the brushes have to be the right way around. If you get it wrong (like I did) then the disc will spin backwards, and in my case it made a nasty squeaking noise while it did so. Make sure the disc spins clockwise!
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