I aquired a Amstrad CPC 664. Now I have never used an amstrad before, I'm a commodore man. But I'm curious about this computer created for long desks. What fun can I do with it?
Everything your C64 can do and more! But wear sunglasses for the first few days, your C64 eyes aren't used to such vivid colours :D
But no seriously, what do you want to do with it: Play games? Serious software? Compose Music? Write software? Develop Hardware?
Bryce.
Oh, and welcome to the Forum.
Quote from: Bryce on 12:38, 19 August 11your C64 eyes aren't used to such vivid colours :D
Yeah, tell that to me. Those
vivid greens on my miniscule GT 65 totally blew away those poor C64 lusers who could only hook up their devices to their big-ass color
CRT in the living room. The poor dears.
Not!Hooray for emulators and letting me actually see the CPC palette merely 20 years later. :D
To the OP: Download http://retroactionmagazine.com/media/AAspecial/AATop100games.pdf (http://retroactionmagazine.com/media/AAspecial/AATop100games.pdf) and see for yourself what the CPC did well. Or play a little Sub Hunter if you prefer more modern gaming. Or tell us what kind of applications you are interested in.
@Morn: come on mate, that's sad. I had a nice SCART cable for my CPC for the price of two pirated games back in the day. AND the green monitor now looks incredibly retro :)
@moijk: welcome mate, to the world of the CPC and the CPCWiki! Well, I guess it's games you're looking after. Do play some on an emulator (you can find all the details here in the forum and the wiki, really), but transferring them to an actual 3" disk is not the simplest thing ever (though it's not that hard either). So, basically, you can start buying games on eBay or get some 3" disks and ask someone here to copy games on them. I'd be glad to do it for you...
Quote from: Gryzor on 13:54, 19 August 11
@Morn: come on mate, that's sad. I had a nice SCART cable for my CPC for the price of two pirated games back in the day. AND the green monitor now looks incredibly retro :)
We didn't have a TV with SCART input in the house until '95 or so, so a SCART cable would not have made a difference I'm afraid. :)
I suppose ever since the release of Writeroom and similar apps for OS X, a green monitor is no longer even retro but hipster-chic. Break out that black turtleneck!
I truly, seriously hope someone would make such a text editor for Windows... complete with the phosphor fade out. I love it!
Btw, anyone who could make a SCART cable back then could probably whip up any other image cable for your CPC...
Quote from: Gryzor on 15:59, 19 August 11
I truly, seriously hope someone would make such a text editor for Windows... complete with the phosphor fade out. I love it!
Seems to me the monitor simulation in JavaCPC is already halfway there. Just needs some annoying scanline flickering and phosphor afterglow. Of course curvature would be a big plus. Then Markus could release it as a stand-alone hipster editor and make some money on the side. :)
There is an app for Windows called Dark Room [yeah, I know :-), unfortunate name], but it does not have that afterglow.
Quote from: Gryzor on 15:59, 19 August 11
Btw, anyone who could make a SCART cable back then could probably whip up any other image cable for your CPC...
Well, I think these modulators to get the signal on antenna cable (channel 36 or whatever) are more complex. If they are cheaply made (as on Sinclair machines), picture quality on the TV is extremely bad. So it was kind of genius by Commodore to build a decent converter into the C64.
Martin
P.S. Gah, why do my single-line spaces between paragraphs always get turned into double-line spaces? Is Safari doing this or the forum software?
Dark Room is nowhere near the one you showed us, unfortunately. I need something with the functionality of SCiTE and the looks of that. Oh well.
I didn't talk about modulators, just some kind of video cable - RCA or whatever. If you can build a SCART you can do all the others.
Back on topic!
PS the editor interprets Return as a paragraph break, hence it actually inserts a blank like. If you insert one yourself then it's two. Try shift+enter, like MS Word.
Quote from: Gryzor on 16:56, 19 August 11
I didn't talk about modulators, just some kind of video cable - RCA or whatever. If you can build a SCART you can do all the others.
Sadly, our old TV only had Antenna In, hence a modulator was needed. No Component Video or S-Video or anything like that...
Quote from: Gryzor on 16:56, 19 August 11
Dark Room is nowhere near the one you showed us, unfortunately. I need something with the functionality of SCiTE and the looks of that. Oh well.
P.S. Just to make this clear: That program in the video is a terminal emulator,
not an editor. Writeroom is an editor though.
Quote from: Morn on 17:22, 19 August 11
P.S. Just to make this clear: That program in the video is a terminal emulator, not an editor. Writeroom is an editor though.
Yeah, I know. But I use a text editor more than Terminal emus...
Quote from: Gryzor on 17:39, 19 August 11
Yeah, I know. But I use a text editor more than Terminal emus...
Well, I see no problem there: You could use a console text editor like Emacs or Vim
inside the terminal emulator. Probably gives you more ways to customize it than Writeroom and Co. ever could.
I mean, Emacs is more like a complete Lisp machine OS that also happens to have an editor function. Supposedly Emacs has become more Scite-like with the latest releases anyway. Control-X Control-C :)
Quote from: moijk on 12:31, 19 August 11
I aquired a Amstrad CPC 664. Now I have never used an amstrad before, I'm a commodore man. But I'm curious about this computer created for long desks. What fun can I do with it?
You are on the right track! The world will be colourful now for you :-)
Quote from: Morn on 17:22, 19 August 11
P.S. Just to make this clear: That program in the video is a terminal emulator, ...
So we can use the Mac as terminal for CP/M 2.2 running on a CPC f.e. :P
Quote from: TFM/FS on 20:19, 19 August 11
So we can use the Mac as terminal for CP/M 2.2 running on a CPC f.e. :P
Mac OS X would probably instantly auto-destruct when brought into direct contact with the messianic one, true, real operating system: CP/M. Or maybe CP/M will use this opportunity to finally break free of its system disks, turning itself into a virus and taking over all OS X and Windows machines on the planet.
Anything could happen. So I would proceed with extreme caution here. :D
(http://www.dan-dare.org/FreeFun/Images/TheMatrixWallpaper800.jpg)
CP/M's view of Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux
Well, right. There's a high risk, but a big chance though.
Quote from: moijk on 12:31, 19 August 11
I aquired a Amstrad CPC 664. Now I have never used an amstrad before, I'm a commodore man. But I'm curious about this computer created for long desks. What fun can I do with it?
Well, even tho im partially thinking that its a typo and you actually have gotten a 464 with the build in cassette drive. Especially as the 664 is quite rare.
If you have a 464: playing tape games are easy enough. Just type
RUN"
and press enter to load a tape.
If you have a 664: Well, 3" floppy disc games are usually quite expensive and even a stack of "empty/used" floppies can be pretty expensive too. As tapes are much cheaper, you might want to hook up a datarecorder to your 664. Getting a hookup cable is easy enough like:
http://www.dataserve-retro.co.uk/contents/en-uk/d18.html (http://www.dataserve-retro.co.uk/contents/en-uk/d18.html)
or
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270799024421 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270799024421)
Getting a datarecorder that supports all 3 plugs might be a bit tough, but untill then you can use a normal walkman (i think most tapes work just with a walkman anyway). Another use of the cable is for "transfer" aka you can playback tapes (in wav format) directly from pc or record wav onto cd-r and use a cd-player as "tape input".
Again most games probably load on a 664, but a few older games may have trouble loading simply because of the tiny memory difference. So this small "downgrader" program may come in handy:
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:ACU8507-063.jpg (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:ACU8507-063.jpg)
Quote from: Morn on 15:32, 19 August 11
We didn't have a TV with SCART input in the house until '95 or so, so a SCART cable would not have made a difference I'm afraid. :)
I suppose ever since the release of Writeroom and similar apps for OS X, a green monitor is no longer even retro but hipster-chic. Break out that black turtleneck!
Oh WOW that is sweet!
Shame I don't have a Mac, but I've updated my Putty sessions to use bright green text on a very dark green background now :)
QuoteWhat fun can I do with it?
something like displaying 27 colours on screen. ;D
Also a better version of Head over Heels.
Quotea green monitor is no longer even retro but hipster-chic.
I now know why i always hated those greenies...
Quote from: Bryce on 12:38, 19 August 11
Everything your C64 can do and more! But wear sunglasses for the first few days, your C64 eyes aren't used to such vivid colours :D
But no seriously, what do you want to do with it: Play games? Serious software? Compose Music? Write software? Develop Hardware?
Bryce.
Oh, and welcome to the Forum.
The reason I bought the Amstrad CPC 664 was that it was available locally and at a low price. The computer will undergo a bit of TLC before I'll put it with my other boxes, but I also got the CT65 screen with it. unfortunally not a color monitor, but I've got a CRT tv to hook it up to.
I grew up with the c64, and later amiga. I have a nice collection of 12 vintage computers and consoles, which the amstrad is now a part of. since it's the one that the community I usually use doesn't seem to have any love for, I'm seeking out people that can help me use it for what it is intended for.
I have a couple of plans for it:
- Firstly, I want to be able to play some games. I understand I ought to have got the 6128 if I wanted the best experience, but I'll have to stick with what I have.
- Secondly, I want to explore the possibilities regarding expansion. However, I don't want to do permanent damage to the computer. The 664 isn't exactly the most sold model - 10 000 or so worldwide as I figure, so keeping it stock for prosperity would be a key element.
I have a hxc floppy emulator which I would like to connect somehow, preferably externally. And I'm curious about hard drive options, if any.
I used to read about the speccy and amstrad in computer magazines back in the day, so this is my time to feed my curiosity.
Using the HxC is as easy as with other machines - just read the manual. It's probably the single most important expansion you could get, so I guess you're all set.
But you should know it's not that straight to hook it up to a CRT (unless you get a TV modulator, in which case you'll get shitty picture quality), there's a whole section in the DIY section of the wiki...
Just play the latest Batman demo for your friends and watch them eat their hats.
Always nice to have new people here, especially from the 'outside'... :)
Oh well, I've bought a scart cable and will get a psu soon, so I assume I'm all set. but the old green monitor will be a fun gadget to show the kid what life was back in the day. But the regular use would of course need to be with a color tv. can't have Amstrad Color Personal Computer only in green ;)
Quote from: moijk on 18:25, 20 August 11
I grew up with the c64, and later amiga. I have a nice collection of 12 vintage computers and consoles, which the amstrad is now a part of. since it's the one that the community I usually use doesn't seem to have any love for, I'm seeking out people that can help me use it for what it is intended for.
That's really a bit limited by the C64/Amiga community that they would not appreciate the CPC and its particular strengths. As influential as the C64 might have been, it was not the be-all, end-all. What it got right was that it was affordable and had a decent TV modulator built-in. Its BASIC and firmware were a comparative mess though. Not to mention the crazy graphics modes. It was simply the right gadget at the right price point, but it hasn't aged as well as better-engineered computers like the CPC.
Same for the Amiga. I love my Amiga, but my CPC has never produced a Guru Meditation. :) AmigaOS--visionary as it was--was always a bit chaotic, never as nice and clean as CP/M. And AmigaBASIC must have been the slowest BASIC implementation ever. (It was a Microsoft product, so what could you expect?) Locomotive BASIC runs circles around it, despite running on a much slower CPU. What the Amiga did get right were its custom chips. But Amiga software was a very mixed bag.
The CPC is also the only home computer I have ever seen that has a truly excellent manual. The C64's is extremely dumbed down, while the Amiga manuals are as chaotic and error-prone as the software. So C64 and Amiga fans should definitely recognize Amstrad's achievement there.
To be honest, some of the shortcomings you mentioned (like the manuals) are the result of a simpler system. I don't think I've ever seen a modern-PC manual for instance ;)
But hell yeah, the CPC was THE versatile machine. For the umpteenth time, I'll mention how my neighbor actually wrote and printed his PhD on his 464... try to beat that.
Quote from: Gryzor on 23:43, 20 August 11
... I'll mention how my neighbor actually wrote and printed his PhD on his 464... try to beat that.
In my case it was a CPC6128 with Color monitor and Prowort. In these days I used it as "discless" station, because I had all files on a battery-buffered 444 KB RAM-disc.
And in that configuration it's superior to the PC. Just switch the CPC on, booting CP/M Plus from ROM, starting Prowort from the RAM disc, and ... start working :)
(Meanwhile the PC is still booting .....)
Well, my PC comes back from suspend pretty fast and even boots quite fast from my SSD :)
Quote from: Gryzor on 23:59, 20 August 11
Well, my PC comes back from suspend pretty fast and even boots quite fast from my SSD :)
Hmmm...... :o Modern technology is devils work! :P
Quote from: Gryzor on 23:43, 20 August 11
To be honest, some of the shortcomings you mentioned (like the manuals) are the result of a simpler system. I don't think I've ever seen a modern-PC manual for instance ;)
Modern PCs probably probably don't come with a real manual. "Turn on here; use Windows Help (or OS X help) for more info" on a leaflet is probably about all there is. So it's not really comparable.
If anything the CPC was actually more complex to write a handbook for, because you had to introduce AMSDOS, CP/M, LOGO, GSX, Locomotive BASIC, disk and tape operation, etc. And at the time people could not be expected to understand how computers work, so they had to explain that too. All of which the CPC manual does brilliantly.
When the C64 manual talks about SID, I think they basically just give a very short introduction, then print a BASIC program that does "bloop, bleep, bloop". And that's more or less it. Compare that to the extensive treatment sound gets in the CPC manual.
Good manuals introduce the reader in a gentle way to new concepts, they don't just say, "Yeah, this compute can produce sound, now move along." The CPC manual treats the reader as an intelligent and technically inclined (but not necessarily nerdy) person throughout, while the C64 manual basically treats them like Neanderthals. "Grok make sound with BASIC. Grok smart!" :)
Quote from: Morn on 00:04, 21 August 11
...The CPC manual treats the reader as an intelligent and technically inclined (but not necessarily nerdy) person throughout, while the C64 manual basically treats them like Neanderthals...
Yes, right! And it makes perfect sense (especially the latter one :P )
Quote from: moijk on 18:25, 20 August 11
I have a hxc floppy emulator which I would like to connect somehow, preferably externally. And I'm curious about hard drive options, if any.
The floppy emulator is quite easy to connect externally. You'll need a fitting connector for the drive port (36 pins centronics on the German CPCs for example) a 34 way ribbon cable and the shugart connector for the HxC side. You can take the 5v from the CPC itself. I suggest soldering the wire to the switch in the CPC, so that the floppy emulator starts with the CPC.
There's a thread about it as well: http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?topic=2558.msg27682#msg27682 (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?topic=2558.msg27682#msg27682)
I also recommend reading the HxC manual.
I remember having read about a hard drive in an old magazine. There's no viable solution at the moment, as far as I know.
Quote from: TFM/FS on 00:10, 21 August 11
Yes, right! And it makes perfect sense (especially the latter one :P )
And I bet the Commodore manual writers would have actually
liked to do a great job with it, but their managers probably knew exactly what level of literacy could be realistically expected of their target audience, so they just told them to stop when the manual was halfway done. "Yeah, that's good enough. They will just get a headache when it's more than 20 pages and not care anyway. And those who do can buy a book." Pearls before swine and all that. :)
And one more thing that was great about the CPC user manual: coil binding (aka spiral binding)! You could lay the manual open like a cookbook and had your hands free for typing. It's a small detail, but it shows that Amstrad thought its usability through the way good companies do. The Amiga manuals would always shut on you at the worst possible moment--keeping them propped open was a major annoyance.
Oh yes, that is very true.
Quote from: Cholo on 14:25, 20 August 11
Well, even tho im partially thinking that its a typo and you actually have gotten a 464 with the build in cassette drive. Especially as the 664 is quite rare.
Its indeed a 664, with the CT65 monitor.
Thanks for the other links. I've seached high and low for a datasette that supports the plugs, but apparently casette recorders have gone off fashion. Imagine that.
You only need a cassette player with a headphone-out socket to load games. Almost any cassette player will do.
Bryce.