I tested my AMX Mouse and Dk'tronics mouse interfaces yesterday and updated the wiki with the information.
These are both compatible; i.e. they can be read in the same way and the data is the same.
I am sad that the amstrad mice didn't use a Z80 PIO like the Spectrum one does. if they did we could read them with less processor time :(
So for those who would like a mouse version of arkanoid for example; for amx you need to read it multiple times per screen :(
For Kempston or Symbiface you can just read it the once because they keep count of the movement.
Question:
Does anyone have the kempston mouse interface who would be willing to run some tests for me?
It would be great if they could also open it up and photograph both sides of the pcb so we can add the information to the wiki.
I have never seen one of these interfaces; perhaps they were just prototypes modified from the spectrum version?
The symbiface mouse is awesome. And the patched arkanoid is great. I'd still love to see this become the defacto modern mouse standard. But that would need a new hardware device providing a mouse with this standard, be that either as a minibooster extension or standalone m4x card. Either way I'd want (and buy) at least 1.
Quote from: CraigsBar on 10:21, 24 August 15
The symbiface mouse is awesome.
I was going to say the same... There is no need for another protocol/hardware, only copy the symbiface mouse schema... is awesome!!
good point.
So does anyone have the kempston mouse interface?
Quote from: arnoldemu on 17:33, 24 August 15
good point.
So does anyone have the kempston mouse interface?
Hi arnold i do have one sitting amongst my things. I can scan the mother board no worries and will pass on the relevent pics. What tests do you need??
Time for a batch of MX4 compatible clones? :) [nb]That's NOT an offer to do this![/nb]
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 21:30, 24 August 15
Time for a batch of MX4 compatible clones? :) [nb]That's NOT an offer to do this![/nb]
Bryce.
Oh yesss i like
clowns ... i mean clones :laugh:
It was my next project to make a K-Mouse (internal and external) for my Spectrum +2...
As it is Z80 compatible, the device should also be compatible with Amstrad CPC ? I'll just have to find the drivers.
Quote from: talrek on 12:16, 25 August 15
Oh yesss i like clowns ... i mean clones [emoji23]
It was my next project to make a K-Mouse (internal and external) for my Spectrum +2...
As it is Z80 compatible, the device should also be compatible with Amstrad CPC ? I'll just have to find the drivers.
If you make it symbiface compatible then no drivers on the CPC side are needed. How about a toggle switch for kempston/symbiface modes?
Please, understand that if someone build a SF2 mouse interface, it must include a compatible RTC too.
Quote from: TotO on 13:30, 25 August 15
Please, understand that if someone build a SF2 mouse interface, it must include a compatible RTC too.
Even better, kills 2 birds with one stone! I would really like such a card, am I really the only one? X-mem, X-mass, and x-mouse, a modern modular symbiface replacement. ;)
I'd pay big bucks for that.
Quote from: CraigsBar on 12:51, 25 August 15
If you make it symbiface compatible then no drivers on the CPC side are needed. How about a toggle switch for kempston/symbiface modes?
How do you work that one out? SymbiFace PS2 Mouse isn't compatible with any of the packages (OCP etc) that AMX worked on.
Bryce.
Quote from: CraigsBar on 13:44, 25 August 15Even better, kills 2 birds with one stone!
It is what does the X-MEM (ROM + RAM), the PlayCity (CTC + AY) and what a "Mouse + RTC" board must do for not wasting MotherX4 slots.
In fact, I have already tried to embbed the RTC on the X-MASS, but I have missed room for that...
Quote from: CraigsBar on 13:44, 25 August 15I would really like such a card, am I really the only one? X-mem, X-mass, and x-mouse, a modern modular symbiface replacement.
Peoples who wants that already own a SF2... :)
Quote from: Bryce on 15:44, 25 August 15
How do you work that one out? SymbiFace PS2 Mouse isn't compatible with any of the packages (OCP etc) that AMX worked on.
Bryce.
The CPCWiki provides routines to use the SF2 mouse. If this it not enough you can ask @Prodatron (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13) or me. The protocol of the SF2 mouse is super simple (see there: SYMBiFACE II:PS/2 mouse - CPCWiki (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/SYMBiFACE_II:PS/2_mouse))
New hardware solutions should be compatible to the SF2 mouse IMHO. Then they will immediately run with FutureOS, Symbos and some games (like Nilquades patch of Arkanoid II). This mouse is a real proportional mouse and provides more comfort than AMX compatible mouse (which is basically joystick compatible).
Today with PALa and FPGAs it's no problem (IMHO) to connect any kind of mouse and simulate the SF2 mouse protocol. Of course tody one would probably go for an USB mouse, right? :)
Quote from: TotO on 15:56, 25 August 15
It is what does the X-MEM (ROM + RAM), the PlayCity (CTC + AY) and what a "Mouse + RTC" board must do for not wasting MotherX4 slots.
Peoples who wants that already own a SF2... :)
I already own 2 sf2 cards, but as we know they are.....
1: no longer available
2: prone to overheat
3: closed source so unrepairable
4: a pain to power and
5: quite large
Who seriously uses a mouse on the CPC for artwork these days? And anyway I am sure a patched version of advanced art studio was made with symbos mouse drivers. Most people use their mice for symbos, futureos and cyber chicken don't they? And for all of those the true high resolution (not joystick) mouse is way way better.
I would therefore buy such a mouse card or 2 when and if it became available.
Quote from: CraigsBar on 16:05, 25 August 15
I already own 2 sf2 cards, but as we know they are.....
2: prone to overheat
Really? Can you tell more? How do I omit a problem? :o
Agreed, that the main problem is: One just can't get em any longer (except from Kangaroo for crazy prices like 390 Euros or so).
Quote from: CraigsBar on 16:05, 25 August 15
Who seriously uses a mouse on the CPC for artwork these days?
I do. Shall I post some pics? But seriously - even if I use a mouse - stuff from MacDeath and Tolkin just looks better. :)
Quote from: CraigsBar on 16:05, 25 August 15
And anyway I am sure a patched version of advanced art studio was made with symbos mouse drivers.
Don't confuse hardware and software please. It's drivers for the SF2 mouse, not symbos. :)
btw: Is there a link to such an OCP version?
Quote from: CraigsBar on 16:05, 25 August 15
Most people use their mice for symbos, FutureOS and cyber chicken don't they? And for all of those the true high resolution (not joystick) mouse is way way better.
Exactly, for _EVERYTHING_ a real proportional mouse would be better than one which simulates the joystick. And it's easy to integrate mouse support to all wanted software. As I posted before stuff is in the Wiki (descriptions etc.).
Quote from: TotO on 15:56, 25 August 15
It is what does the X-MEM (ROM + RAM), the PlayCity (CTC + AY) and what a "Mouse + RTC" board must do for not wasting MotherX4 slots.
In fact, I have already tried to embbed the RTC on the X-MASS, but I have missed room for that...
Peoples who wants that already own a SF2... :)
An MX4 card for RTC, mouse (and component Z) would be just fine! I like the Dobbertin RTC card in MX 4 format of course - the only available RTC during 2015 - but if you leave the EPROM off then you got space for a mouse adapter (and component Z). IMHO a USB mouse port would be nice, PS2 is imho hard to get in this days. Well, I may be wrong though. ::)
Quote from: TFM on 16:19, 25 August 15
Really? Can you tell more? How do I omit a problem? :o
Agreed, that the main problem is: One just can't get em any longer (except from Kangaroo for crazy prices like 390 Euros or so).
I do. Shall I post some pics? But seriously - even if I use a mouse - stuff from MacDeath and Tolkin just looks better. :)
Don't confuse hardware and software please. It's drivers for the SF2 mouse, not symbos. :)
btw: Is there a link to such an OCP version?
Exactly, for _EVERYTHING_ a real proportional mouse would be better than one which simulates the joystick. And it's easy to integrate mouse support to all wanted software. As I posted before stuff is in the Wiki (descriptions etc.).
Total agreement, this I like, it confirms that either I am not crazy, or you and I are equally crazy ;)
Of course I meant symbiface mouse not symbos mouse. Typing on an android soft keyboard always leads to interesting auto corrections.
I have 2 symbiface's one runs hot, one doesn't. It seems to be luck of the draw.
I'll try and see if I can dig out the patched ocp, I am 99% sure I did not dream it.
Thank's Craig! Awesome! Well, crazy or not, Tuesdays are only a bit less crazy than Mondays. But yes, totally agree with you. :) :) :)
Would be really nice to get a batch of new SF2 compatible mouses! And nobody need to be afraid of patching existing software for it. I'm sure a lot of people will be interested doing that. Furthermore we got SF2 mouse support in some CPC / Plus Emulators already. :) :) :)
In case you did dream of the patched OCP, then we will just make it. :)
If you went to SMD and populated both sides of the board you could easily add RTC to the x-mass. There's loads of room.
Bryce.
Quote from: yoshi.doshi on 21:01, 24 August 15
Hi arnold i do have one sitting amongst my things. I can scan the mother board no worries and will pass on the relevent pics. What tests do you need??
yoshi.doshi has offered to loan me his interface. :)
So over the next couple of weeks I will be photographing, testing and documenting the interface and mouse for the wiki.
:)
I was starting to think this interface wasn't made and a few people had development or test versions!
I have received the interface and I have started to document it on the wiki :)
Question: I want to scan the board to get a better quality image. How do I do this? I have a flat bed scanner.
Do I put it onto the scanner? The board has an edge connector on one side and pins on the other so I can't put it directly onto the scanner. So how can I do it in this case.
I've uploaded some initial photos on the wiki.
The interface is 90% the same as the Spectrum's.
Take a look at both PCBs, some small changes.
If you're worried about the pins scratching your scanner's glass, don't. If you're careful enough it'll be alright - and you don't even need to put the cover on top, just turn the lights off.
I use a HP3670 scanner which is quite powerful. A thin flatbed scanner cannot scan anything that is not in contact with the scan surface.
I only have a cheap thin flatbed scanner, so it seems my luck is out.
Ok, I try to take better pictures.
First pcb pictures are on the wiki now.
I got some time ago a HP4300 scanner which is also good, for 5€ in a second hand shop.
It may be worth to keep an eye for one of those.