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General Category => Amstrad CPC hardware => Topic started by: dthrone on 11:16, 10 May 15

Title: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: dthrone on 11:16, 10 May 15
It's been ages since anyone has posted about this so I've started a new topic.  Now I've got my C4CPC I've been able to test a Quickshot Blackhawk (model QS-6219) analogue joystick on a GX4000 using the Arnold Diagnostic cart.
I firstly tested the pins, both fire buttons are connected to pin 4 as required, so the digital buttons are good.  Both axis pins are connected to pin 1, so there is no problem there (nothing for the reversed 0/5V to destroy).
I didn't bother checking the resistance ranges because I don't have enough hands.
The nice thing is this joystick has two small sliders "x axis adjust" and "y axis adjust".  I plugged the joystick straight in and the sliders gave centred ranges 1a-27 in x and 1c-2b in y.  By tweaking the centred value, the full physical x and y ranges were available within 00-3F ASIC ranges.
So in conclusion this is an example of a analogue joystick that works perfectly on the GX4000, straight out of the box.
Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: dthrone on 12:17, 10 May 15
Further to this, it would be nice to build up a table of analogue joysticks tested with the diagnostic cartridge, probably with at least make/model and x and y ranges recorded.

This would -
a) serve as a buying guide, the more sticks we know work, the more buying choice there is.  The more buying choice, the more owners, the more likely people will produce analogue stick compatible games  ;)
b) let developers know what to account for when writing calibration routines etc.

Note, be sure to read the wiki guidelines before doing any tests.

Wiki has now been updated with a table on the analogue stick page.  It would be very nice to get a range of sticks tried out.  Post if unsure technically or wary of damage etc.  ;D
Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: TFM on 17:18, 11 May 15
I never used the Diagnostic cartridge. What I do is to start FutureOS (Plus version) and see if I can move the mouse pointer (hardware sprite) over the screen. Using the analogue joystick. IMHO the big advantage is that one can see the proportional speed in real-time. So one can assess who good the proportional part of the joystick actually is.  :)
Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: dthrone on 18:55, 11 May 15
Quote from: TFM on 17:18, 11 May 15
I never used the Diagnostic cartridge. What I do is to start FutureOS (Plus version) and see if I can move the mouse pointer (hardware sprite) over the screen. Using the analogue joystick. IMHO the big advantage is that one can see the proportional speed in real-time. So one can assess who good the proportional part of the joystick actually is.  :)

Well that's true, you certainly can't argue with the compatibility by seeing it in action  8)

So can you confirm any makes/models that have worked well in FutureOS (Plus)?  :)
Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: TFM on 19:12, 11 May 15
Quote from: dthrone on 18:55, 11 May 15
Well that's true, you certainly can't argue with the compatibility by seeing it in action  8)
So can you confirm any makes/models that have worked well in FutureOS (Plus)?  :)


Thanks. Well, tbh, I only had the change to get one joystick to test. It was a cheap PC joystick they sold for cheap long time ago.
Once somebody here posted a picture in the forum, but I don't find the thread now. Sorry, that's not so helpful.



Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: dthrone on 19:52, 11 May 15
Quote from: TFM on 19:12, 11 May 15

Thanks. Well, tbh, I only had the change to get one joystick to test. It was a cheap PC joystick they sold for cheap long time ago.
Once somebody here posted a picture in the forum, but I don't find the thread now. Sorry, that's not so helpful.

A while ago I did read through those threads, I'll have to take another look and see if anything useful can be extracted  :D

I am quite sure that many people are starting plus cart projects now the C4CPC is available, and I'm sure most would like the confidence that if they include analogue stick functionality, users will have plenty of mod-free solutions  :)
Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: Bryce on 22:06, 11 May 15
The software is irrelevant, it's the hardware that needs to be tested for compatibility, but I will agree, the Future OS cursor is a good way to test it.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: CraigsBar on 23:34, 11 May 15
Quote from: Bryce on 22:06, 11 May 15
The software is irrelevant, it's the hardware that needs to be tested for compatibility, but I will agree, the Future OS cursor is a good way to test it.

Bryce.
any chance of a proper USB mouse to analogue socket eh @Bryce ?
Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: dthrone on 00:04, 12 May 15
Quote from: Bryce on 22:06, 11 May 15
The software is irrelevant, it's the hardware that needs to be tested for compatibility, but I will agree, the Future OS cursor is a good way to test it.

Bryce.

With all these testing options available, hopefully some more makes/models can be confirmed. 

....or even ruled out!  :(
Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: Bryce on 09:06, 12 May 15
Quote from: CraigsBar on 23:34, 11 May 15
any chance of a proper USB mouse to analogue socket eh @Bryce (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=225) ?

Technically possible, but how many people would really want one?

Bryce.
Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: CraigsBar on 09:21, 12 May 15
Me for sure, 2 actually. If it is truly analogue ;) and I am sure @TFM and @Prodatron will be able to add support to futureos and symbos. Oh an maybe a Cyber-Chicken patch lol.
Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: Bryce on 09:32, 12 May 15
Quote from: CraigsBar on 09:21, 12 May 15
Me for sure, 2 actually. If it is truly analogue ;) and I am sure @TFM (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=179) and @Prodatron (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13) will be able to add support to futureos and symbos. Oh an maybe a Cyber-Chicken patch lol.

Don't they already support analogue joysticks as pointing devices? The OS wouldn't know whether it's a joystick or a USB mouse adapter.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: CraigsBar on 09:35, 12 May 15
Futures does, not sure about symbos.... I've not got an analogue stick to test with.
Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: dthrone on 09:48, 12 May 15
Quote from: CraigsBar on 09:35, 12 May 15
Futures does, not sure about symbos.... I've not got an analogue stick to test with.


Well you now know that if you pick up a Quickshot QS-6219 from ebay or wherever you'll have one you can use  ;)


That's the whole point of this topic - to make it easy to pick one up  :)
Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: TFM on 16:57, 12 May 15
Quote from: CraigsBar on 09:21, 12 May 15
Me for sure, 2 actually. If it is truly analogue ;) and I am sure @TFM (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=179) and @Prodatron (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13) will be able to add support to futureos and symbos. Oh an maybe a Cyber-Chicken patch lol.


From the FutureOS side it already works.  :)
Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: dthrone on 17:05, 12 May 15
Quote from: Bryce on 09:06, 12 May 15
Technically possible, but how many people would really want one?

Bryce.




Mouse adaptor = potential for cart god games, point+click etc., I'm sure plenty of people would want one then  :)
Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: CraigsBar on 20:55, 12 May 15
Quote from: dthrone on 17:05, 12 May 15



Mouse adaptor = potential for cart god games, point+click etc., I'm sure plenty of people would want one then  :)
Ditto!


And Image a Plus only Cart release of Cyber Chicken with proper analogue mouse support for more people than just those with a Symbiface II


Step 1, the Analogue Mouse adaptor
Step 2, Asking mouse orientated games to be ported to use it..... and other plus features... all no possible with C4CPC :)

Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: dthrone on 22:35, 12 May 15
Quote from: CraigsBar on 20:55, 12 May 15


Step 2, Asking mouse orientated games to be ported to use it..... and other plus features... all no possible with C4CPC :)

Step 2.1, GX4000/plus exclusives too  ::)

Quote from: CraigsBar on 20:55, 12 May 15
And Image a Plus only Cart release of Cyber Chicken with proper analogue mouse support for more people than just those with a Symbiface II

Would be very nice  :D
Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: andycadley on 23:29, 12 May 15
I'd definitely buy a couple. Not the faintest idea what I'd actually do with them, but that never stopped me before!  :laugh:
Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: TFM on 16:43, 13 May 15
Ok, I would take 1-2 too, just to support and make tests.  :)
Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: dthrone on 16:59, 13 May 15
Well I'd definitely have one, I've been going a bit GX4000 peripheral crazy recently  :laugh:
Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: Bryce on 19:19, 13 May 15
I'll add it to my list of projects that I'll probably never get around to doing :)

Bryce.
Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: MacDeath on 09:19, 14 May 15
Where is the dislike button ? ;D

I tested different Joystick/joypads that would use the same analog port 'DB15) that I have for my old PCs... via Tennis Cup II as it actually enables Analog controllers.
None worked... could only go up-left diagonal... but with proper drivers, I guess many controllers would actually work.
Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: dthrone on 10:15, 14 May 15
Quote from: MacDeath on 09:19, 14 May 15
I tested different Joystick/joypads that would use the same analog port 'DB15) that I have for my old PCs... via Tennis Cup II as it actually enables Analog controllers.
None worked... could only go up-left diagonal... but with proper drivers, I guess many controllers would actually work.




Finally some stick feedback  :)


The Tennis Cup II routine checks at almost the extremes of the ADC register ranges so it is likely that some of your sticks simply don't fill the full range because of their resistor values.  They will work, like you say with proper drivers.  In fact it would be extremely easy to patch TCII to make it work with a much larger range of sticks.


If you can test any of them with the Arnold Diagnostic cart and record the results it would be extremely useful information.  Drivers in games should be made accommodate the widest possible range of sticks.
Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: MacDeath on 20:42, 14 May 15
I remember that it gave strange result on a PLUS in Basic... like chains of numbers/letters.
But I don't have the cartridge at the moment so I can't test for now.
Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: dthrone on 23:11, 14 May 15
Quote from: MacDeath on 20:42, 14 May 15
I remember that it gave strange result on a PLUS in Basic... like chains of numbers/letters.
But I don't have the cartridge at the moment so I can't test for now.

Yeh, really it is easiest/most convenient to test using the diagnostic cart with C4CPC. I'm hoping more people come out of the woodwork with analogue sticks hidden away that they can test.  Having a good supply of suitable analogue sticks is essential for the GX4000/plus to reach its full potential imho  ;)
Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: MacDeath on 02:31, 15 May 15
Many non analog paddles were also using a DB15 port on PC as it was basically to Joystick port.
Anyway it would be nice to have a more complete list of compatible or easy to make compatible hardware... some adapters may be required perhaps as well as "drivers"...
Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: TFM on 18:40, 01 June 15
Quote from: MacDeath on 02:31, 15 May 15
Many non analog paddles were also using a DB15 port on PC as it was basically to Joystick port.
Anyway it would be nice to have a more complete list of compatible or easy to make compatible hardware... some adapters may be required perhaps as well as "drivers"...


Give it a try in FutureOS (Plus version). It senses nearly the whole spectrum of numbers, so you see the mouse arrow moving quick or slow. Maybe that helps.

Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: siccoyote on 18:47, 15 November 19
I've just been digging through my old stuff trying to make sense of it.

Pulled out my old PC Game Port Analogue Joystick, Does this work in the Analogue port of the GX4000? Like it won't hurt it?
Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: dthrone on 22:22, 15 November 19
Quote from: siccoyote on 18:47, 15 November 19
I've just been digging through my old stuff trying to make sense of it.

Pulled out my old PC Game Port Analogue Joystick, Does this work in the Analogue port of the GX4000? Like it won't hurt it?



Try it using the analogue stick test on

https://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&onglet=dumps&num=9627 (https://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&onglet=dumps&num=9627)


Make sure any autofires etc. are turned off. 


If you can post the joystick model and numbers the test program gives you at the extreme stick positions it is useful info  :)
Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: siccoyote on 22:50, 15 November 19
Interact PC Mission SV-200
Channel 00 00 - 31
Channel 01 3F - 18
What can I use it with?
Title: Re: Analogue joystick testing
Post by: dthrone on 01:44, 16 November 19
Quote from: siccoyote on 22:50, 15 November 19
Interact PC Mission SV-200
Channel 00 00 - 31
Channel 01 3F - 18
What can I use it with?




Well the good news is it's usable with the GX and it looks like that model of stick has adjustment controllers for refining the ranges.


The bad news is you can't use it with much atm.  Tennis Cup 2 but that just emulates a digital controller. FutureOS that TFM (Gunhed) mentions above.  Other than that just unreleased homebrew stuff.


But keep it safe and be patient, the GX renaissance seems to be just beginning...  ;)
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