At this point, I would like to find another "first / second customer" for LambdaSpeak. This person will get a "discounted" price of 130 $ that barely covers my costs (30 $ PCB, 60 $ Emic 2, 30 $ Shipping to Europe, 15 $ parts... ) This person would need to have an M4X motherboard and report back to me if he / she encounters any problems with LambdaSpeak. Also notice that I have not tested it with the monitor's PSU, I am using an external 2.5 A PSU on my CPC 464. Please contact me if you would like to do this!
I already have another first customer, but in order to speed things up a bit, I would like one more person (soon) ;)
It would be cheaper to send a dozen or more to EU and somebody there can send - for cheap - to other customers in EU. :)
Sure, that could be done "for production". With 130 $ I am in the reds... even with the reduced shipping price resulting from that, it might still not get less than 130 $ ;) I need approx. 1,5 hours to assemble and test one by hand... I would like to have some minimal reimbursement in the 15 - 20 $ range for my efforts.
3 PCBs at OshPark of that size are 85 $ btw.... the only way to bring the costs down significantly are to assemble in China, and then about 60 PCBs or so. But I don't think that many people are interested.
So, in order to verify the M4X version is working correctly, I need one volounteer who is willing to pay 130 $ (and gets the money back if it doesn't work of course - however, I would't really know why it shouldn't, the success rate is > 90 % at his point)
I could be yours :-*
I love this monstrosity :D
Any (new) videos about it?
Quote from: Gryzor on 09:46, 16 August 17
I love this monstrosity :D
Whoever does buy one I'd suggest connecting it to the CPC via a ribbon cable to prevent accidents/bad connections.
I like it a lot too... and I would be buying one if I had not bought the graphics card :-\
Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 10:42, 16 August 17
Whoever does buy one I'd suggest connecting it to the CPC via a ribbon cable to prevent accidents/bad connections.
I offer one :-)
Originally I designed it such that the DDI3 would be visible through it behind it via the CPC Expanasion Port Connector, and this works quite well, but it might get shakey over time with more use.
Lucky me, I just got an offer for MotherX4 board - so I will be able to test it myself.
Quote from: ||C|-|E|| on 11:46, 16 August 17I like it a lot too... and I would be buying one if I had not bought the graphics card :-\
Well, thanks for considering it ;) Maybe one day.
Quote from: GUNHED on 10:31, 16 August 17Any (new) videos about it?
No, not really... the latest one was the Eliza video (native mode demo).
... maybe I'll do a promotion video once it is tested on M4X :P
Quote from: Gryzor on 09:46, 16 August 17I love this monstrosity :D
... it would bring down the costs significantly if the Emic 2 could be replaced with something else... I can easily support other speech chips with the architecture, it is quite general (it basically supports any hardware to which the Arduino / ATmega 328 can talk / has a driver... this include RTCs, LCD / LED Displays, Dot Matrixes, Temperature Sensors....)
Anybody has a good idea for an *inexpensive* Emic 2 alternative? No, not SPO256 ;)
The emic 2 has superior speech compared to old school speech ICs. The only possible cost reduction without loosing the speech quality would be to source the emic IC without the whole PCB etc connected. Can it be bought as a single IC? What IC is the emic based on?
Bryce.
Edit: Just did some checking... The emic2 is based on the EPSON S1V30120 Text to speech IC. They cost around €6 each, so if you are prepared to design and add the necessary bits to your schematic you could majorly reduce the total end price.
Quote from: Bryce on 20:20, 16 August 17Edit: Just did some checking... The emic2 is based on the EPSON S1V30120 Text to speech IC. They cost around €6 each, so if you are prepared to design and add the necessary bits to your schematic you could majorly reduce the total end price.
... I don't think it is that easy... there is also the complete DecTalk software built in... the second big chip on the Emic 2 must be the microcontroller, right?
There are alternatives, but boy, are they bad... listen to this nightmare for example:
Now, this is a 29$ chip... I must say I rather spend 60 $ for the Emic 2
Quote from: LambdaMikel on 00:44, 17 August 17
... I don't think it is that easy... there is also the complete DecTalk software built in... the second big chip on the Emic 2 must be the microcontroller, right?
The whole DecTalk software and the English and Spanish / 9 voices etc is built into the EPSON IC, not their µP. I have no idea what their µP is doing, need to check the schematics.
Bryce.
It is a "Microcontroller, Coldfire, TQFP-64" (never heard of it).
http://www.grandideastudio.com/wp-content/uploads/emic2_bom.pdf
Yes, the schematics are actually online here
http://www.grandideastudio.com/wp-content/uploads/emic2_schematic.pdf
Anyways, SMD soldering etc. are beyond my capabilities, then somebody else need to do it ;D
... also, the "plug in play" solution is not that bad from the point of view that the Emic 2 is kind of an investment, but you can also use it for your other projects (Arduino, ...) So I actually decided not to solder it in. I used it in lots of other projects, it is not being monopolized for LambdaSpeak, but a "shared ressource".
I took a look at the schematics and I'm speechless (excuse the pun). They've used a massive (and relatively expensive) 32bit µP and all it's doing is converting the serial input to SPI and flashing the LEDs!! Talk about cracking a nut with a sledge hammer! Why??!!??
If you can change your design to output the commands directly via SPI on your PCB then you can reduce the design down to the EPSON IC, some voltage regulation and an op-amp. The $59 is then less than $9.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 15:56, 17 August 17
If you can change your design to output the commands directly via SPI on your PCB then you can reduce the design down to the EPSON IC, some voltage regulation and an op-amp. The $59 is then less than $9.
Bryce.
Wow! Intruiging.. yes outputting SPI directly would be equally simple for me.... currently the AVR 328 is doing parallel-serial using UART, same thing can be done with SPI immediately. And I thought my design was "wasteful" :D
Still, I won't be able to do an SMD... but I could probably do the design and software (maybe with your help?)
No problem. I can do some of the hardware design too. Let's talk on PM.
Bryce.
SPI? Why not connecting to Tot0's Minibooster?
Quote from: GUNHED on 20:44, 22 August 17
SPI? Why not connecting to Tot0's Minibooster?
Because then it wouldn't be DKTronics or SSA-1 compatible and the games with speech wouldn't support it either.
Bryce.
Quote
I took a look at the schematics and I'm speechless (excuse the pun). They've used a massive (and relatively expensive) 32bit µP and all it's doing is converting the serial input to SPI and flashing the LEDs!! Talk about cracking a nut with a sledge hammer! Why??!!??
If you can change your design to output the commands directly via SPI on your PCB then you can reduce the design down to the EPSON IC, some voltage regulation and an op-amp. The $59 is then less than $9.
Hi Bryce, I also took a look and found the following documents:
http://www.mouser.com/pdfdocs/s1v30120_hw_spec_eng_e.pdf (http://www.mouser.com/pdfdocs/s1v30120_hw_spec_eng_e.pdf)
and
http://global.epson.com/products_and_drivers/semicon/pdf/id001875.pdf (http://global.epson.com/products_and_drivers/semicon/pdf/id001875.pdf)
Turns out the microcontroller on the Emic 2 is doing a little bit more thank blinking LEDs and doing USART to SPI conversion:
see 5.1 in the first document:
Quote
Fig. 5-1 illustrates a typical application system using the S1V30120. The host processor communicates with the S1V30120 over the serial interface, using commands (message protocol) to control the embedded algorithms. For more information on commands, see "S1V30120 Message Protocol Specification."
On reset the S1V30120 runs the bootstrap loader firmware. The host must then use bootstrap loader messages to load the SRAM firmware contents and ROM firmware updates (SRAM_VECTORS) into the S1V30120 device's SRAM and to switch to running the main mode. These SRAM_VECTORS are stored in FLASH in the typical application system shown in Fig. 5-1 above
The microcontroller is hence loading the firmware upon cold reset into the Epson.
the SRAM VECTORS are stored in the flash of the coldfire microcontroller, not on the Epson. Seems the Epson does not have flash for firmware?!
Seems the Emic 2 is indeed more complicated than we think; that will be too complex to recreate with my little AVR 328 ;)
I am afraid the "Cost Down Design" is out of my league - at least with the amount of time I can invest in a hobby project.
Quote from: LambdaMikel on 18:32, 23 August 17I am afraid the "Cost Down Design" is out of my league - at least with the amount of time I can invest in a hobby project.
Having said that, I am declaring CPC LambdaSpeak as final for now and will start working on a Commodore 64 version of it ;D
This gives some more insights in how the Epson works: https://electronza.com/arduino-due-s1v30120-text-speech-code/ (https://electronza.com/arduino-due-s1v30120-text-speech-code/)
It is not straight forward at all.
I could use this thing:
https://shop.mikroe.com/text-to-speech-click (https://shop.mikroe.com/text-to-speech-click)
which is basically Epson IC only on a board... but already 39$!
And then - all the software problems that come with that...
https://github.com/MikroElektronika/Click_TextToSpeech_S1V30120 (https://github.com/MikroElektronika/Click_TextToSpeech_S1V30120)
No, that's all too much work unfortunately
The Emic 2 solution is still the most comfortable and versatile IMHO.
Power has its price ;D
Yeah, I didn't expect it to be a complete no-brainer. It would mean that you would have to use a bigger µP and take over the tasks that the emic2 processor looks after. It's just a bit of a waste having two µP in the project when one would be enough. Maybe I will take a look at designing the LambaSpeak 2.0 at a later date? :)
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 08:21, 23 August 17
Because then it wouldn't be DKTronics or SSA-1 compatible and the games with speech wouldn't support it either.
There is no compatibility anyway, they use a different chipset.
It's a different chip, but that just means it sounds different (better). LambaMikel was making it compatible as far as i/o addresses and commands are concerned, which means it would work with existing software. If you put it on a different address you loose that.
Bryce.
Quote from: GUNHED on 12:42, 24 August 17There is no compatibility anyway, they use a different chipset.
Take a look at the videos to learn about SSA-1 compatibility:
Notice that this is all original (unpatched) software.
Currently, there are 2 modes, selectable with DIP switch 1:
- on = native mode
- off = SSA-1 emulation
No DK'tronics yet (and not worthwhile).
Quote from: Bryce on 08:18, 24 August 17Yeah, I didn't expect it to be a complete no-brainer. It would mean that you would have to use a bigger µP and take over the tasks that the emic2 processor looks after. It's just a bit of a waste having two µP in the project when one would be enough. Maybe I will take a look at designing the LambaSpeak 2.0 at a later date? :)
For sure you need a (much?) bigger microcontroller than the AVR 328, because of the big firmware file (32 KBs or so). Curious - which microcontroller would you chose? I would welcome LambaSpeak2 by sharing code and layouts with you (maybe some parts can be reused) - can we make it an open source project (and I would like to get a mention for LambdaSpeak "1" :) ) Making SSA-1 mode work was a lot of work for me...
In the meantime, I will try to sell a couple on Ebay and SellMyRetro, just to get some development costs back... I think I burned about 500 $ on OshPark with all my different PCB versions :picard: But hey, it wasn't wasted, I learned a lot!
Looking forward to working on LambdaSpeak 2 with you :)
I wouldn't go for a massive µP just to get the extra RAM. The µP could be a smaller cheaper device and the Firmware could be stored in a cheap 2-wire EEPROM such as an AT24C64. The µP just needs to shovel the data over when it boots.
Bryce.
Ah, thanks, missed that.
This is really cool. Love the Eliza video! Are you planning on selling it at some point?
Are you still looking for the $130 guy?
Quote from: fandenivoldsk on 18:21, 26 August 17Are you still looking for the $130 guy?
Right, so far he hasn't reported back to me... he was supposed to do the Mother4X testing. But I will also have a Mohter4X next week! Then I will know for sure. But it works perfectly fine with my (Mother4X compatible) CPC 464 Expansion Port Connector, so I don't expect any surprises.
I would like to start selling a couple in 2 or 3 weeks or so - not many though; I only have time to assemble 5 or so by hand. The outstanding tests for LambdaSpeak are: connect to 6128 with centronics expansion port cable, and connect to Mother4X.
Bryce and I are working on LambdaSpeak 2.0, a cost-reduced version which will be much cheaper. That will probably not be ready before the end of the year.
Well, I for one really want one. 1.0 or 2.0, please let me know when to order, when it is time :)
Quote from: fandenivoldsk on 18:28, 26 August 17Well, I for one really want one. 1.0 or 2.0, please let me know when to order, when it is time :)
Do you have / require Mother4X compatability? I have the one assembled shown in the picture at the beginning of this thread.
It would come with a CPC 464 Expansion Port Connector (you don't need this connector if you have Mother4X). Without connector its 130 $, with connector 145 $ (includes shipping to Europe).
In terms of functionality, LS1 and LS2 won't be that different I believe. LS1 is for people who want to have a dedicated Emic 2 module, that they can also use for Rasperry Pi and Arduino Projects etc (shared resource). LS2 will have the speech chip mounted permantely via SMD. So it can't be shared for other projcets.
If you like, you can purchase the displayed one right away, send me PM and it ships on Monday ;)
I do not have the Mother4X board. Do you know if I can still get one of those? I guess I would prefer to have LambdaSpeak together with Mother4X.
I asked the same question here on the board, and got a PM from the "supplier", if he still has some, he might contact you.
For our German-Speaking friends 8)
This piece of software has an interesting history. I typed it in in 1985 from a german version of the classic book "BASIC Computer Games (Microcomputer Edition)" - also Eliza got translated into German! I typed it into my CPC 464 during the summer break of 1985, and also added some special effects like sound effects etc. Also in August 1985, the "CPC Schneider International" Magazine had published a driver for the DK'Tronic Speech Synthesizer which allowed it to speak german: "Der CPC spricht deutsch". A simple phoneme-based translation. I typed this in as well, and then combined it with Eliza. I owned the DK'Tronics since April 1985.
32 years later I remembered that piece of software and was curious if the DK'Tronics "german driver" would work with LambdaSpeak, which emulates SSA-1? I only had to change the port, and remove some INP(...) wait statements, because the hardware protocol is a bit different - and it worked! The german is actually much better than what the DK'Tronics produced.
Quote from: LambdaMikel on 18:24, 26 August 17The outstanding tests for LambdaSpeak are: connect to 6128 with centronics expansion port cable, and connect to Mother4X.
First part is done, and works - I got my 10-pack of Centronics connectors today. I can make a cable if somebody wants one.
Quote from: LambdaMikel on 05:12, 29 August 17The outstanding tests for LambdaSpeak are: connect to 6128 with centronics expansion port cable, and connect to Mother4X.
Yeah, got my Mother4X today - and LambdaSpeak works! So LambdaSpeak v1 really is final :)