As you know, CentPourCent.net is a commodity to pre-order boards.
I use my free time since two years to build them for the CPC community. (MotherX4, X-MEM, ...)
Understand that I definitively not waste this time to allow peoples to make money on my back, asking twice the price!
From today, I definitively reconsiderate my activity. I will let you know more later.
Don't let the greedy idiots ruin it for everyone.
Wow. This is super disapointing. €80 for a X-MEM? €70 for a Mother-X4? Yikes...
Unbelievable. That's what's wrong with the WHOLE retrogaming scene these days, whether it be classic computing or consoles. Everyone just wants to use it to make money. As a buyer it saddens me, especially when I hear that I might have to miss out on things like the X-MEM & X-MASS. I've been meaning to buy these for AGES but something always comes up. At the moment it's my wedding & honeymoon to pay for, but I do intend on getting them eventually.
Of course... that's if the minority doesn't ruin it for everyone else...
Can't let one idiot screw it up for everyone. These people think old computers are the way to make some money fast sadly, ruining our hobby.
Maybe you can add a punishement to these pepole.
I mean, i think all people buying these boards are people normally registered many time ago in cpcwiki or other big amstrad forums. And normally is a good people enjoying the Amstrad CPC.
Maybe you need a some type of security system has have the shop linked to cpcwiki user account for example. So if a user is detected selling it only to make profit, it can be banned and can't buy more.
Intead of selling it to all world without control.
I'm really sorry to hear that and I can easily relate to your frustration. Hope that won't stop you making your awesome hardware. You really make our beloved machines shine, looking forward to your pm reply too.
You cant blame the customer if there aren't contract terms which forbids this behaviour.
Also you should print a link to your shop on the pcb so that customers of the reseller could try it out and come directly to you. (If they are clever)
Hm, maybe @dragon (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=251) has something there... should we, as a community (and I don't mean the wiki only) ban those people who behave that way?
Also, @Fessor (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1495) is right, more recognition is needed!
Technically, there is nothing restricting a buyer to resell the product at whatever price he thinks. I don't know what I would have done in your position, maybe just ignore them, afterall I can't force them to not resell.
But I hope this doesn't ruin the community, I love your boards and I wouldn't like to see this effort gone.
No, of course you can't do anything "technically". But still, in the spirit of the community, it's ripping people off.
This is a question of moral and not of the fecking law!!!
TotO is absolutely right!!! I know more than the average bear how much of his passion, heart, spare time and money goes into all his projects!!!
We have to support him here. We do not have to discuss this.
Of course is was a question of time until bad things will happen, so my suggestion is to sell stuff only to known members of the CPC scene. Other can pay the double price if they get one X-care, maybe that keeps scum away.
Also: Let us _ALL_ try to inform people about TotO's great work. So this damn re-sellers can not make money with the x-cards.
EDIT: Ok, Gryzor you are more quick in typing than me. ;)
I've tried to 'advertise' every homebrew project's threads and homepages in any way I can, I suggest others do the same.
As for selling stuff only to known members... Hmmm I don't know, because look how many have joined our community (and I guess others, too) in order to get these products, I doubt they were coming with bad intentions.
Hi,
I totally support Toto. This is also ripping new customers off. I think perhaps people buying with this isane price also need to be informed better. I don't know how as we don't know if they visit forums and how we can reach them. But why don't make a sticky note adressing this and supporting all hardware developers in general wether it's for Spectrum, Atari, Amiga, Oric, CPC etc. All forums displaying the same sticky note. Probably smarter ways to do it, but I invite everyone to improve on this.
Regards,
Bjørn
To Gryzor:Yes, that's right. I just have no better idea now. It's TotO's decision of course. But people doing shit have to know that they face consequences.
It's hard to realize that there are still some humans out there never having heart about CPCWiki. And people visiting will know about current projects (imho).
So where is TotO's stuff sold? Any link available? I would like to write a 'nice letter' to the seller. ;)
EDIT: Again? Seems that everybody posts more quick than me today, maybe I should start citing again.
I'd post the links, but since Tot0 didn't perhaps he's got his reasons...
But indeed, how to inform potential users? :(
Sadly there's not much one can do to prevent these things. If you link accounts to cpc-wiki for example, it's as easy as creating a new account to avoid geting caught.
There are things one can do of course. For starters, check the previous orders and see if somebody is ordering too many boards of the same kind. That could give you a tip of who is doing profit from your hard work.
And the most effective way to get rid of this shit is sell your own boards in the same places as the resellers. Are they trying to sell double the price on ebay? Sell yourself on ebay at your regular price + ebay fees + paypal fees. Then there's no reseller businness anymore.
P.S.: You can even wait to do that until you detect another "suspicius order". In that case, with a bit of luck, you really kill the reseller businness after the bastard spent some good money on getting new things, leaving him even more annoyed with wasted money ;D
Dubliner is right about the other places, but this would mean that a developer would need to monitor eBay for his products and put some effort into doing business there, too, and of course it doesn't preclude people from having their own shops, like in this case :(
There are things one can do! For example tell people what's going on. I got the link now. The seller is the well known scene destroyer Kangaroo Musique who got banned here multiple times (because he had also multiple nicks) and got banned from multiple other forums. Just let him feel that what he does is not alright.
EDIT: Dubliner is right, sell things at ebay too, but it su**s to be forced to do that. :-\
I totally support Toto ! such persons who resell Totos amazing cpc stuff must be banned ...and even more... :-\ :-\ :-\
i can"t believe !!!!!
Quote from: radu14m on 19:37, 28 September 15
I totally support Toto ! such persons who resell Totos amazing cpc stuff must be banned ...and even more... :-\ :-\ :-\
i can"t believe !!!!!
Well, I do not think there is something wrong reselling TotO's cards. Any owner may need to resell them for any reasons.
What's wrong is asking unreasonable price for it.
Also, I think TotO is able to prevent this by ignoring order from people that are known to do so.
/me sad.
Plus, what I don't get is why anyone would buy it at that steep price when searching for "x-mem cpc" or "mother x4" in google turns up the correct cpcwiki forum page and the link to centpourcent.net. A two minute search would have saved them a lot of money. People are just stupid.
I think the simplest solution would be to print the price itself on the board, obviously combined with all the information leading to Toto as the creator.
Quote from: MaV on 20:57, 28 September 15
... what I don't get is why anyone would buy it at that steep price when searching for "x-mem cpc" or "mother x4" in google turns up the correct cpcwiki forum page and the link to centpourcent.net. A two minute search would have saved them a lot of money. People are just stupid.
This is where you miss the point. IMHO lot's of people do browse ebay. No offense, but it's probably way more than browse the forum (else that all wouldn't happen). So people find this by accident and think "Oh wow! How cool!". So they buy it and waste their money to rip-off-scene-destroyers without even knowing. They are not stupid, they just don't know better. Blame the dealer not the victim. :)
Hello my friends. Thank you for your kind messages and searching about a solution. 8)
I'm sorry to distrubing you with that. I think that I will have to be visible on ebay to avoid the problem.
Quote from: gerald on 20:55, 28 September 15
Also, I think TotO is able to prevent this by ignoring order from people that are known to do so.
You've just hit the nail on the head. You can't stop anyone from selling items they own, but you can police who you sell boards to. You can also make your own boards available on Ebay so people can see the price difference themselves. They simply wouldn't be able to get away with selling the items at a more expensive price because the creator will always be able to undercut them. Problem solved.
Well, that's probably the best idea up to now. Also people who like to give you some credit for your great work can bid a bit more than usual. ;)
TotO, please don't allow such people to have negative impact on your moods. The CPC scene needs you and your work! :)
Quote from: TotO on 21:10, 28 September 15
Hello my friends. Thank you for your kind messages and searching about a solution. 8)
I'm sorry to distrubing you with that. I think that I will have to be visible on ebay to avoid the problem.
Visibility on Ebay is the only way I am afraid but it will be very effective on your part because your items will always be cheaper!
Also include a URL on the board itself. I've seen a number of wonderful boards recently that have no ID or URL on them. People go to all the effort of making something gorgeous and then no URL or ID on the board.
Hi,
although I can feel for TotO, it really isn't a nice thing to do, at least not without asking permission, there really is nothing stopping them from doing this and it was only a matter of time before something like this happened. You left yourself a bit open to this ToTO. But I don't think banning or anything is really suitable. I think the collective voice of the community should make them reconsider their position in the community and their business model. The seller(s) weren't just selling their own unit because they were short on cash, they offer them as stock from their shop.
They also happen to be members here.
Bryce.
Did I miss something? I guess a ripoff merchant has hit @TotO (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=290) on Ebay,
I just checked and I see nothing so at least it's not a on all ebays (I use .IE obviously)
Craig
I have an idea, maybe it's not too practical, but an idea nonetheless.
Why not use the silk mask to put the original price and a warning stating "If you pay more than xxx, then you're quite stupid"?
As for people reselling hardware... They are in their right, so if people isn't going to take their time to google the device name and check if there are better options, it's also totally their fault and I will feel no pain about them throwing their money away.
TotO for the win! 8)
Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 21:12, 28 September 15
You've just hit the nail on the head. You can't stop anyone from selling items they own, but you can police who you sell boards to. You can also make your own boards available on Ebay so people can see the price difference themselves. They simply wouldn't be able to get away with selling the items at a more expensive price because the creator will always be able to undercut them. Problem solved.
Easier said than done. People "sell" things on eBay at inflated prices then order it directly from the original seller to go to the eBay customer directly. Most people don't check the paperwork that comes with it, so don't notice any discrepancies. The really bad ones do the purchase with a stolen credit card (so called drop-ship scams) to rake in even more profit whilst being harder to track down. It's a particularly nasty problem because then even if they undercharge, they still make profit.
The best approach is to be visible in the places where the sales occur, make it known that you are the original producer and the best place to buy from. And keep an eye out for anyone selling too good to be true prices, reporting them as you see fit.
Quote from: Bryce on 22:51, 28 September 15The seller(s) weren't just selling their own unit because they were short on cash
Then, resell with a "close" price... It is not funny to see that you paied twice for items known to be finally always availables.
I have other examples on the CPC community (GX4000, RAM Card, ...). Peoples look sad after knowing that... Who's the next?
If any money problem, users may return some boards to me. I can understand and I will refund to save time building new one. 8)
Quote from: robcfg on 23:22, 28 September 15
Why not use the silk mask to put the original price and a warning stating "If you pay more than xxx, then you're quite stupid"?
First of all, all my sympathy and support to TotO; unfortunately there's always the smart-ass going for the easy buck.
I don't think calling "stupid" to the buyer that didn't do anything wrong is nice. Perhaps they don't know any better, I'm a newbie here and still don't quite understand these boards to even know if I want one.
The good side of this is that if someone is bothering to resell things in eBay I guess... there's a market for the product!
centpourcent.net is a commodity for forum users, so I have hidden it from the search engine to stay confidential.
My goal was not to do business and I think that was enough like that because I have built around 400 boards for you since two years.
Yes a market exist, and you can see that some other peoples restarted to build expansions (MX4 format) since months.
But... Have I to take profit about this market? I'm not sure. I will be bored if I'm no more enjoyed to do it as hobby...
It sucks but you can't stop somebody reselling on hardware, they own it and can do what they like..
You can however cut of their supply chain and undercut them on price online. You know the guy flipping them from profit so obviously stop supplying him, doesn't matter if he has them listed on his website if he can no longer get stock to flip.
How many boards has this guy already bought ? Not worth losing sleep over if its only a few boards.
Please don't go adding price info or other irrelevant nonsense to the silkscreen it'll just make them look unprofessional and tacky.
Quote from: reidrac on 08:05, 29 September 15
First of all, all my sympathy and support to TotO; unfortunately there's always the smart-ass going for the easy buck.
I don't think calling "stupid" to the buyer that didn't do anything wrong is nice. Perhaps they don't know any better, I'm a newbie here and still don't quite understand these boards to even know if I want one.
The good side of this is that if someone is bothering to resell things in eBay I guess... there's a market for the product!
Don't take everything at face value. I was suggesting that the price will be printed in the silk mask or in the copper layer, so it cannot be hidden and if it is, you'll know they are trying to sell it overpriced.
If people would still buy it, I'll be still thinking they're stupid...
....and the seller has the nerve to mark all of the boards as special price. (Does this mean special high ?)
I don't understand such people :( .
Quote from: TotO on 13:04, 28 September 15
As you know, CentPourCent.net is a commodity to pre-order boards.
I use my free time since two years to build them for the CPC community. (MotherX4, X-MEM, ...)
Understand that I definitively not waste this time to allow peoples to make money on my back, asking twice the price!
From today, I definitively reconsiderate my activity. I will let you know more later.
I fully understand your frustration and I'd be annoyed if it was me. >:(
I've been using my free time to do the gx4000 conversions, for the cpc community, but at least people can't profit from the time and effort I've put in,
unless someone does the same thing to Gerald, which I hope they don't. >:(
I understand people can sell whatever they own, but the big mark up takes the (censored) I hate it when people buy to sell and ruin it for people that love using retro computers etc.
I hope you don't stop making your items because of this, as I would like to get some bits from you in the not to distant future, not to sure what everything does, so not sure what I need yet. :)
As always, all things will be ripped off. There's a guy on ebay selling Goteks with Jeffs Firmware pre-installed. I doubt he's buying licenses from Jeff for each one. There are others that will make bootleg cartridges from your GX4000 conversion work. I've had my designs ripped off too by others. It happens. I've changed they way I publish projects since then, but that still won't stop someone from selling things on for higher prices or reverse engineering it to build their own for sale.
The same person that's trying to resell ToTOs hardware is also trying to sell the domain CPCWiki.com on ebay :D
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 14:34, 29 September 15
The same person that's trying to resell ToTOs hardware is also trying to sell the domain CPCWiki.com on ebay :D
Bryce.
At least he's not charge for postage on it ;D
He's also trying to sell Cyberchicken for €50!
Bryce.
Well, and since the cpcwiki.com domain was mentioned, maybe it's worth revisiting the story: Kangaroo MusiQue - CPCWiki (http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Kangaroo_MusiQue)
Quote from: Gryzor on 14:56, 29 September 15
Well, and since the cpcwiki.com domain was mentioned, maybe it's worth revisiting the story: Kangaroo MusiQue - CPCWiki (http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Kangaroo_MusiQue)
No it's not worth wasting time on, when we are actually here to discuss CPC hardware, software and general retro-computing.
Bryce.
Quote from: Gryzor on 14:56, 29 September 15
Well, and since the cpcwiki.com domain was mentioned, maybe it's worth revisiting the story: Kangaroo MusiQue - CPCWiki (http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Kangaroo_MusiQue)
Wow i don't know the story about this guy impressive ! maybe he have an account on the forum :o maybe he read us >:(
You can do a movie with a story like that , try to sell it in hollywood :D
Well, anyone can read the forum, whether registered or not. He has registered a couple of times here, but every time his shenanigans get him banned again. Oh, and he *has* read the thread since he actually favorited my tweet about TotO's boards :D
Quote from: Bryce on 14:41, 29 September 15
He's also trying to sell Cyberchicken for €50!
Bryce.
What!? I didn't see or want a Penny from it to make the final price as small as possible. (And maybe it was too high anyway). But nobody will waste that much money for it. ;D
TotO, I'm new to CPC scene, but you are definitively a hardware guru and a "pillar" for the CPC community and seem to be very appreciated too for your availability and kindness.
Then why not making some profit with your skill and passion ?
I come from the C64, where new hardware is really more expensive than the price you can sell yours.
I was very surprised by the low prices when I passed you my order.
It's a good thing for the CPC community of course but that mustn't kill your interest even if it's a hobby for you.
Well i already had this discussion with TotO about this time the Hack-it clone i made.
But it was my fault...
Someone (from the cpc scene, this is why i did that) ask me for buying 10 pieces. i thought it was for friends.
So i even made him a price for these 10. But after i saw him selling these on a french website, and on eBay more than twice the price i sold them....
So, yes i understand the feeling. What i've done ? i put the card on this website and eBay. it is a little more expensive (i added eBay commission and paypal) than here but i wanted to keep a better price for cpcwiki members.
But even more expensive (a little more only) it was 20€ Under his price... I think he didn't sell any... or maybe one... :D
Quote from: talrek on 08:26, 30 September 15
Well i already had this discussion with TotO about this time the Hack-it clone i made.
But it was my fault...
Someone (from the cpc scene, this is why i did that) ask me for buying 10 pieces. i thought it was for friends.
So i even made him a price for these 10. But after i saw him selling these on a french website, and on eBay more than twice the price i sold them....
So, yes i understand the feeling. What i've done ? i put the card on this website and eBay. it is a little more expensive (i added eBay commission and paypal) than here but i wanted to keep a better price for cpcwiki members.
But even more expensive (a little more only) it was 20€ Under his price... I think he didn't sell any... or maybe one... :D
Teeheehee justice is served.
Maybe when someone buy a lot o motherboars to the friends the best is . O.k send my a photocopy of the dni of the 10 friends. you don't have it bye bye. Or at least you can have a database of not allowed dni :) .
To fight the users nick clones, the best is limited the buying to minumun post in cpcwiki,at least it made time to find the clones :) .
it's more hard register to buy something if you need made 300 post to buy a board, you are banned, and you need made other 300 posts.
At the moment it's all about one single person. But of course he got his henchmen too.
I think, never sell high amounts of a device to anyone, even if he pretends to buy it for friends. It is a hobby thing, and i don't think anyone will need much more than 2 or 3 devices of one kind.
And if friends needs it, then they have to come and ask by themselves. Not so much a big hassle for such great pieces of hardware...
I did not know about this because I was on holidays... I am very sorry about the whole thing. Is it possible to order an X-MASS anymore? I was going to order mine today, but I see that is priced as 0 euros... :-X
Free X-MASS??? ;D
I have difficulty to buy DOM since my dealer sold the stock to another people. >:(
It is why it is actually soldout. Sorry, you will have to wait... 8)
Quote from: remax on 16:51, 30 September 15
I think, never sell high amounts of a device to anyone, even if he pretends to buy it for friends. It is a hobby thing, and i don't think anyone will need much more than 2 or 3 devices of one kind.
And if friends needs it, then they have to come and ask by themselves. Not so much a big hassle for such great pieces of hardware...
Usually people who buy bigger amounts of somthing for friends are know in the scene. F.e. I got a dozen CPC-Booster+ from Antitec back the day, and they all went to people I either met on meetings or posting was natonal/cheap. But if a stranger orders 10 boards for "friends" then I doubt that this guy -and- his 10 friends are not known. We're talking CPC scene here. It's not so big that people wouldn't know about each other.
But of course in principle you're right! :)
Quote from: TotO on 17:42, 30 September 15
Free X-MASS??? ;D
I have difficulty to buy DOM since my dealer sold the stock to another people. >:(
It is why it is actually soldout. Sorry, you will have to wait... 8)
That´s OK! I will other the rest of the boards I had in mind, then! :D
Quote from: ||C|-|E|| on 17:07, 30 September 15
I did not know about this because I was on holidays... I am very sorry about the whole thing. Is it possible to order an X-MASS anymore? I was going to order mine today, but I see that is priced as 0 euros... :-X
You can get one at www.spie (http://www.spie).... Oops, no forget that ::)
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 19:39, 30 September 15
You can get one at www.spie (http://www.spie).... Oops, no forget that ::)
Bryce.
[emoji23]
Funny enough, I knew that page since long long ago and I never said anything, my fault :-X
Oh well! I already bought the board, the x-men and a few cables :D
Quote from: TotO on 17:42, 30 September 15
Free X-MASS??? ;D
That's Brilliant TOTO!
Give them away for free and that ebay seller will not sell any. :laugh:
How much are the X-VID cards now?
Uups... posted in wrong time line.
Nothing to read here! :-X
Quote from: TotO on 17:42, 30 September 15I have difficulty to buy DOM since my dealer sold the stock to another people. >:(
It is why it is actually soldout. Sorry, you will have to wait... 8)
I have found two new way to get SLC DOM looking compatible for a descent price. I will update as soon as possible.
Quote from: TotO on 17:42, 30 September 15
Free X-MASS???
Careful typing that around this time of year.
Fox News are looking to make up this year's "War On Christmas" story and might want to know what you have against good hardworking honest Americans supporting christmas.
Sorry to hear that this has been going on. Tot0 - please don't stop making your boards just because a small minority want to spoil it. Your and indeed talrek's boards are excellent pieces of work and are one of the main reasons that I have got back into the CPC scene again and using my 6128 for 'serious' stuff. Without them the current CPC scene would be a much worse one and that would be a sad day indeed.
I can see my MotherX4 for 49€ and the X-MASS for 99€ ...
My boards will be always available and the prices are:
MotherX4 = 9.90€
MotherX4 + ribbon cable = 14.90€
MiniBooster + USB = 24.90€
X-MEM ROM = 24.90€ (should down to 19.90€ if EUR>>USD)
X-MEM RAM/ROM = 34.90€ (should down to 29.90€ if EUR>>USD)
X-MASS = 29.90€
PlayCity = 24.90€
MultiPlay = 9.90€ (when available)
Don't trust peoples stealling you. 8)
Quote from: TotO on 16:12, 02 October 15
I can see my MotherX4 for 49€ and the X-MASS for 99€ ...
My boards will be always available and the prices are:
MotherX4 = 9.90€
MotherX4 + ribbon cable = 14.90€
X-MASS = 24.90€ (should up to 29.90€ depending the DOM price)
X-MEM ROM = 24.90€ (should down to 19.90€ if EUR>>USD)
X-MEM RAM/ROM = 34.90€ (should down to 29.90€ if EUR>>USD)
PlayCity = 24.90€
MultiPlay = 9.90€ (when available)
Don't trust peoples stealling you. 8)
"Depending on Dom size" does that mean you have found a supply of larger certified working doms? And if so will you make them available independenly as upgrades?
the DOM price (not size) when I bought them. :P
Looking forward to buy an X-MASS :D (I try the X-MEM when it arrives)
Quote from: TotO on 16:12, 02 October 15
My boards will be always available and the prices are:
MotherX4 = 9.90€
MotherX4 + ribbon cable = 14.90€
X-MASS = 24.90€ (should up to 29.90€ depending the DOM price)
X-MEM ROM = 24.90€ (should down to 19.90€ if EUR>>USD)
X-MEM RAM/ROM = 34.90€ (should down to 29.90€ if EUR>>USD)
PlayCity = 24.90€
MultiPlay = 9.90€ (when available)
The CPC community is very lucky! respect !
It is how I can contribute actually. 8)
I have updated my post because I forget the MiniBooster and be confused about the X-MASS price. ;D
I know you are proud of your low prices, but this is a big part of the problem you have at the moment. You really need to price your hardware properly. This isn't a price war and people will then respect your hardware due to it's innovation and quality, not due to its price.
Bryce.
But, I'm proud about the quality and the price. 8)
Sure I should sell them more, but why?
Peoples wanting to give me more already do it with the "Thank you!" option.
Look the Symbiface 2... Price was 129€, so it is reselled 300€...
There is no limit to the partice of stealing peoples.
It's not stealing, it's about putting a realistic price on a good product. A product is much more than the sum of the parts used to make it and anyone should e happy to pay the realistic price.
I'm not speaking about ebay rip-offs here, that will happen no matter what price your hardware costs.
Bryce.
I understand you, but each people can put realistic prices on HIS OWN good product.
Personally, I can't sleep in peace if I sold 90€ a board that cost me 20€ parts + 15mn to solder it. (it is a hobby for me, not a business)
If today, I will increase my prices that will not avoid guys to increase the resell price too...
No, €90 isn't realistic either, but the price should at least reward you for your work a little, which in turn will allow you to invest in your hobby and bring new hardware. That's not stealing from anyone, that's real community support which will result in more and better hardware.
Bryce.
I completely agree with that! :)
I agree with TotO, some people have a thin wallet or no wallet. They can't afford so called 'realistic prices'. And as TotO pointed out there is a Thank you button. Use this one or just send more money via PayPal.
I'm glad that this is CPC and not Amiga, because in Amiga world I wouldn't be able to afford all this nice products for 'realistic prices'.
Bryce is right too, work should be treated fair, but TotO made obviously excellent deals and he is right: It's a personal decision. :)
Quote from: TotO on 16:38, 02 October 15
the DOM price (not size) when I bought them. [emoji14]
Talking of 44pin doms, I've just put a 16gb one in my new Amiga 600. It is a sweet little machine. Tomorrow i'll attempt a whdload install. ;)
Now, back to topic please.
Amiga 600? Is that a kitchen robot, which cleans the house, makes food, plays music and does a favor to you when you need it? Oh wait, no, that was Amiga 666.... Uups ... back to topic as you told. ;)