Hi All,
ok, even if I end up getting hate mail for this, here it is. I had an hour free tonight and threw together a first draft of what a Stereo SID expansion for the CPC might look like. It's basically just some address decoding, two SIDs and a divider (to reduce the 4Mhz from the CPC to 1Mhz). The output stages are "old-school", ie: more or less what was in the C64, no op-amp, just discrete components, to keep it comparable (and retro). There's an input for the AY to both SIDs to allow FM Synthesis using the AY output and a stereo speaker output. The first SID can be accessed at addresses &F800 to &F81F, the second SID is at &F820 to F83F. Obviously I haven't built one yet, so it might still have a few bugs. When I get a chance, I'll make a rough prototype. But I'll need someone to write some test software to test it. This version would also only work for 6581 SIDs at the moment, for the 8580 SID some minor changes would be required, but a "switchable" version would also be possible. And because it needs 12V, it's really only feasiable for a classic 6128, otherwise you'll need a seperate power supply.
Bryce.
The I/O range seems to be a good choice, I did not find any collitions.
I checked the I/O Port summary in the Wiki first. The addresses were free and more importantly, easy to decode :)
Bryce.
I like that!
Which kind of soft do you need?
Take a look at the datasheet attached. On page three you can see the SIDs register numbers in Hex and an explanation of what they do. For SID0 the registers can be calculated with &F800+Reg No. and SID1 with &F820+Reg No. Feed them with the correct data and it should sing for you :) The expansion is designed so that readable registers are also readable for the CPC.
Bryce.
In my sid project i was using the port $FF60 and a similar configuration that you, Bryce, tomorrow i will try to recompile my sid patches for caprice using your ports and then i will reassemble my old sidplayer sources, but now you can use this simple basic example, that it was my first test ;)
5 s=&F800: REM SID Port
10 FOR l=s TO s+24:OUT l,0:NEXT:REM clear sound chip
20 OUT s+5,9:OUT s+6,0
30 OUT s+24,15:REM set volume to maximum
40 READ hf,lf,dr
50 IF hf<0 THEN END
60 OUT s+1,hf:OUT s,lf
70 OUT s+4,33
80 FOR t=1 TO dr:NEXT
90 OUT s+4,32:FOR t=1 TO 50:NEXT
100 GOTO 40
110 DATA 25,177,250,28,214,250
120 DATA 25,177,250,25,177,250
130 DATA 25,177,125,28,214,125
140 DATA 32,94,750,25,177,250
150 DATA 28,214,250,19,63,250
160 DATA 19,63,250,19,63,250
170 DATA 21,154,63,24,63,63
180 DATA 25,177,250,24,63,125
190 DATA 19,63,250,-1,-1,-1
Bryce, SyX: I've never been a friend of the SID in the old days (for emotional reasons only), but it's time to get over old habbits for me.
And this project all looks like a great idea to me :-))) So, friends let's make the best out of it :-D
Cool! Great work Bryce! FM Synthesis capability confirmed! I really like the look of this! I like synths a hellovalot! I got a fist class grade for my dissertation in sound synthesis during my degree so if there is any way I can be of help feel free to ask! ;D
Cool, because my knowledge of synthesis is zero. In fact, my entire Synthesis experience was going to a Jean Michel Jarre Concert back in the 80's :D
Bryce.
Ha! That's interesting as I was thinking maybe an Oxygene tribute could be a good way to showcase the abilities of this project! :D
Quote from: Bryce on 08:49, 24 September 11
Cool, because my knowledge of synthesis is zero. In fact, my entire Synthesis experience was going to a Jean Michel Jarre Concert back in the 80's :D
Synths? Also try the fabulous VANGELIS and the amazing TANGERINE DREAM!
Also... any "Kraut Rock" from the late 70s/early 80s. For some reason, from the mid 90s onwards, electronic music took a major dive! Possibly due to the commercialisation of dance music, which was inspired by these keyboard pioneers!
Oh, and OZRIC TENTACLES for that guitar/flute over the synth sound!
Anyway, a HardSID for CPC would be great, but are there any decent software 'emulations' of the SID sound that we can experiment with in STarkos? I already know that HARDENV can be used to emulate some SID Pulse sounds (mainly basses) but that's about it.
Ooh, Tangerine Dream; now there's a guy who knows his music... :)
Quote from: Gryzor on 10:34, 24 September 11
Ooh, Tangerine Dream; now there's a guy who knows his music... :)
Ah! But only the Schmoelling and Haslinger years... and some of the late Baumann stuff, perhaps! 80s & early 90s Tangerine Dream is still them at their very best!
Poland, White Eagle, Tangram, Le Parc, Livemiles to name but a few of my favourites! Oh, and you can't forget the early live stuff; Ricochet, Phaedra and the early studio classic Stratosphere! (Slightly off-topic!)
Quote from: TFM/FS on 00:34, 24 September 11
Bryce, SyX: I've never been a friend of the SID in the old days (for emotional reasons only), but it's time to get over old habbits for me.
And this project all looks like a great idea to me :-))) So, friends let's make the best out of it :-D
You know, these projects have to start in some place, and after the sid we always could rip a few apple 2gs for its ensoniqs or a few cps2 for its qsounds xDDD
Bryce, i have found the sources of my "frankenstein caprice", but i haven't the same luck with the sources of my Sam Coupe sidplayer port, but don't worry i have changed the ports in the binary using an hex editor ;) and not sounds bad (a little fast... but it's for my fast hack of caprice :P, i'm sure in the real hardware it will go better). Only use the first SID ($F800) of your project ;)
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; Mueve el emulador de c64 a la página 6
; en nuestro caso corrompe el sid
; #0000-#7fff Páginas 5 y 6
; ld a,high_page+rom0_off
; out (lmpr),a
; ld hl,&d000
; ld de,&d000-&8000
; ld bc,&1000
; ldir ; copy player
; El mapa de memoria es:
; #0000-#7fff Páginas 3 y 4 <-(SID)
; ld a,low_page+rom0_off
; out (lmpr),a ; page tune back in
; #8000-#ffff Páginas 5 y 6 <-(Emulador)
; ld a,high_page
; out (hmpr),a ; activate player copy
; IX apunta a la cabecera del sid
ld h,(ix+10) ; init address
ld l,(ix+11)
ld (init_addr),hl
ld h,(ix+12) ; play address
ld l,(ix+13)
ld (play_addr),hl
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How always you only see, what you want to see, take a look to this post (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?topic=1153.msg26259#msg26259):
QuoteA few years ago, i "hacked" the caprice sources to add a SID chip and converted the Simon Owen's Sam Coupe sidplayer (http://simonowen.com/sam/sidplay/). The idea was that DaDman would make a card for the CPC with a Swinsid (http://www.swinkels.tvtom.pl/swinsid/)... but we began with more interesting projects (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/Smileys/SoLoSMiLeYS1/tongue.gif)
You can "enjoy" this franken-horror of caprice here (http://webs.ono.com/maurice/caprice.zip) (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/Smileys/SoLoSMiLeYS1/undecided.gif) , in sidplay.dsk is a conversion of a c64 basic program to locomotive basic (only had to change the pokes to outs (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/Smileys/SoLoSMiLeYS1/grin.gif) ) and in playsid.dsk one of first version (i haven't found any later version) of my "port" of Simon Owen's sidplayer "playing" (va a ser que no (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/Smileys/SoLoSMiLeYS1/laugh.gif) ) the AcesHigh.sid by Lasse Öörni (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/Smileys/SoLoSMiLeYS1/wink.gif)
And if you read at the beginning of this thread, Bryce said:
QuoteBut I'll need someone to write some test software to test it.
I'm the only one that think it's stupid don't help, specially when i have software that he could used and only would need a simply change of ports.
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But no, drama queen is here and is shooting shit, Nice!!!
Well you win, i'm out of this and every project related to you and your "ideas", i'm tired of this situation.
Good Luck with your ideas!!!
Either way, CPC-SID isn't really a project (yet). I just scribbled a quick schematic to show how a SID could theoretically be connected to a CPC, I don't intend making a real project out of it, unless loads of people start screaming how badly they need it or how much of their life was spent waiting for this to come along. The design isn't based on any (modern) project. The connections to the SID are standard, ie: what the datasheet requires, the output stage is almost 100% identical to what's in a real C64 (I used an equivalent modern transistor) and the address decoding/freq. divider was done in ten minutes out of my head using ICs that I usually use (and probably still has a few mistakes in it :D ).
If it becomes a real project, the SwinSID sounds like a great solution and it could be easily adapted so that a CPC controls a SwinSID, in which case 90% of my schematic wouldn't be required.
Bryce.
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You can see how SwinSID sounds here with some demos (go to Demos section):
http://www.swinkels.tvtom.pl/swinsid/ (http://www.swinkels.tvtom.pl/swinsid/)
Differences between SwinSID module and a real SID chip:
- SwinSID works in asynchronous mode (there is no need of CPC clock frequency division... No need any clock signal from CPC anyway).
- SwinSID only "emulates" audio part of SID. There is not emulation of "joypads" interface of SID chip (we don't need it).
- SwinSID is 99% compatible with original SID tunes.
- We can't read registers from SwinSID. Not a big problem for making music.
- SwinSID has some audio enhancements: One digital channel for playing samples, added several waveforms, reverb, etc.
- SwinSID works with 5V. Original SID with 12V.
- Original SID chips avaliability (and prices) is a problem nowadays.
- First SID releases have overheating problems. They need to be cooled by some way if you don't want a burned chip.
- SwinSID module uses Atmega microcontroller. Easy to buy, easy to find and with updateable firmware to improve emulation (or to program your own/custom synth chip).
Listen the demos on the webpage and decide by yourselves if using original SIDs or "emulated SIDs" for this amazing project.
Cheers
Quote from: SyX on 11:58, 24 September 11
Bryce, i have found the sources of my "frankenstein caprice"...
Any link for us? EDIT: I got it from the other thread! Thx!
Quote from: DaDMaN on 12:11, 24 September 11
But in private, please... I don't want someone continues stealing me "ideas".
Well, I can't see that Bryce "stole" your SID idea. And HIS card is topic here, so this is a hardware topic. And not a flamewar one (which can be done in the WW2 topic actually if you want). We want to keep that thread here constructive, ok?
And by the way: I saw a SID running on a CPC over 20 years ago, just check out the CPCAI!
Quote from: phi2x on 12:52, 24 September 11
There is no such thing as "stealing ideas" IMHO. That's precisely what I think is broken with the current patent system. Anyone which has a vague idea can put a patent on it and block innovation for a long time. That sucks :/
I never agreed so much with you!!!
'Emulation' is all very well, but for me you can't beat taking a real SID chip from a C64 and getting it to run on a CPC.
So Bryce et all - please do carry on with your project :)
Quote from: redbox on 18:42, 24 September 11
'Emulation' is all very well, but for me you can't beat taking a real SID chip from a C64 and getting it to run on a CPC.
Surely agreed, but like I've understood: the Caprice with SID emulation is just there to allow us to code software in parallel to the developpment of the hardware. :)
Quote from: TFM/FS on 19:07, 24 September 11
Surely agreed, but like I've understood: the Caprice with SID emulation is just there to allow us to code software in parallel to the developpment of the hardware. :)
No, I meant in regards to SwinSID vs. New SID project - I'd rather have a real SID chip, preferably one taken from a C64 so it doesn't have it anymore 8)
@redbox
Awesome. I truly laughed out loud.
Anyway, I've just taken one out of a C64. It is going into the mix.
You guys are hilarious :laugh:
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Nobody mentioned your SID project here, and nobody mentioned that SwinSID here. You brought the topic up. And it's not topic here. But maybe you did read the topic wrong, maybe it's due to your poor English dude :P
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Hi there!
Interesting project! Just curious as I know zero about the technical side of SID programming! How much frametime would it take to play an "avarage" SID tune on the Z80 (CPC)?
/Ygdrazil
Quote from: Ygdrazil on 22:06, 24 September 11
Hi there!
Interesting project! Just curious as I know zero about the technical side of SID programming! How much frametime would it take to play an "avarage" SID tune on the Z80 (CPC)?
/Ygdrazil
Over 100% CPU time probably. To play directly SID files recorded from Commodore machines we need to emulate the 6510 CPU and C64 environment (RAM status, variables, CPU registers, etc). SID files are snapshots from C64 status including the original player coded in 6510 assembler. But play custom music designed for a custom player for Amstrad CPC and Z80 CPU must be faster than play tunes for our AY chip. SID chip will be connected directly to the expansion BUS and can be fastly accesed. AY in Amstrad CPC is connected to PPI and we need more instructions to access it.
Yikes! well if this conversation has calmed down I have been looking at the signal chain arrangement in the SID and unless the diagram is wrong or I missed something (entirely possible after having just woken up after a 12 hour night shift) it seems that the frequency modulation of the signal sent to the EXT in pin of the SID is not possible. However OSC 3 can Modulate the frequency of OSC 1 So FM Synthesis is possible based on a quick skim through the documentation. I will read more thoroughly when I'm fully conscious. Anyway here is the diagram...
Link---
File:SID Block Diagram.PNG - WFFwiki (http://www.waitingforfriday.com/index.php/File:SID_Block_Diagram.PNG)
I could have interpreted this incorrectly, however if not the AY output signal can still be filtered and it's gain attenuated so at least AM Synthesis from this signal is possible, to produce ring modulation an other interesting effects.
AD converters look interesting! It depends on what these can cope with but they could be very handy indeed if they pass through the oscillators.
Quote from: Ygdrazil on 22:06, 24 September 11
Interesting project! Just curious as I know zero about the technical side of SID programming! How much frametime would it take to play an "avarage" SID tune on the Z80 (CPC)?
Regarding the Stereo-SID idea from Bryce it would take less than 10% of the CPU time. Even if you transfer sound-data on every interrupt (300 times a scond) it wouldn't be more.
For a programm it doesn't matter if you transfer data for a dozend registers to the AY or SID, it's just I/O.
In case you want to play sound samples, it would need the most of the CPU time. I don't know the SID in this regard, but I assume that it will be roughly the same than with the AY.
@DaDMaN, Thank you for any help you can give to bryce to get the SIDchip working on the CPC.
@Badstarr, I wish I could get a job where they let me sleep for 12 hrs :laugh: .
Quote from: steve on 01:10, 25 September 11
@Badstarr, I wish I could get a job where they let me sleep for 12 hrs :laugh: .
Lol! If only I had 12 hrs sleep, unfortunately the shift is the 12hrs part 12 1/2 to be exact I'm lucky if I get 6 hrs sleep :-(
Ooooh!
Four days away from home, and there's real talk about a SID extension for the CPC!!! :laugh:
GREAT!
I was thinking about how much time would take to play music on the sid, and obviously if you try to play a .SID file as is, you'll need to emulate the c64 itself which is quite a waste of time.
So the ideal would be to convert the .SID files to something more like .YM files but with support for the two sids. I think that means taking a c64 emulator and trapping the calls to the SID chip, and then save them all to disk.
Of course everybody is welcome to program a tracker with support for the AY+2Sids ;D
Quote from: DaDMaNYes, my/our project was mentioned here and you doesn't read all the thread. And of course you don't know the history. Maybe you don't care people uses your work without mention you as they would did all the work without your participation? Maybe you feel better insulting me having no idea what you are talking about?
I thought you were in charge of the hardware side, not the software as this is Syx's area of expertise. That said, your idea is not original, as it has been attempted in the past, and you don't do software, so I don't see how could possibly be Syx stealing nothing from you.
So, please, any personal disputes, just discuss them in private and don't bring that kind of useless arguments to the forum.
@Syx: Hey mate, don't get mad, you know we love Bryce's quality hardware and Syx's quality software 8)
Hi RobCFG,
Well, we would need SID songs in a kind of Starkos format. And I'm sure that the c64 world has something similar to the Arkos tracker, so it shouldn't be hard to patch such an application (if one can get the sources). :)
Quote from: Bryce on 08:49, 24 September 11
my entire Synthesis experience was going to a Jean Michel Jarre Concert back in the 80's :D
Quote from: Badstarr on 09:20, 24 September 11
I was thinking maybe an Oxygene tribute could be a good way to showcase the abilities of this project! :D
Quote from: Gryzor on 10:34, 24 September 11
Ooh, Tangerine Dream; now there's a guy who knows his music... :)
White Clouds. :) While we're at it, (the remnants of) Kraftwerk are having more of their "last" gigs in Munich on the 12th-14th (http://www.muenchen.de/veranstaltungen/event/528753.html), followed by a 1-month 3D exhibition celebrating their work(s) in Lenbachhaus Kunstbau (http://www.lenbachhaus.de/cms/index.php).
Quote from: DaDMaN on 13:13, 24 September 11
No one was talking about adapting SID to CPC until today (no in public).
Actually we were talking much earlier http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?topic=1153.msg26224#msg26224 (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?topic=1153.msg26224#msg26224) about having seen other people's hardware implementation published
decades before, just trying to pinpoint the location (which isn't easy for mags that never went digital for back issues at least, which few of us could afford back in the day, and often had to read on store shelves in the pre-Internet era).
am a HUGE SID fan, so am following this with great interest.
Someone has recently hooked up a SID to a BBC micro and got it running. very impressive
Very interesting ideas coming from all of you.
I'm musician interested in *.MID files; AY/YM/AYC files...; tracker files and NOW *.sid files (and interface) to our CPCs.
Thanks All !!! for thinking about new interfaces for the CPC (maybe music ones)
Quote from: RockRiver on 20:06, 05 October 11
Please Syx and Dad you were a good developer and researcher team from CPC scene... we need both of you... calm down friends.
They *are* calm since some time, I just hope that you don't pour gas in a fire that was on its way to go out. So please, let's focus on topic here and exclusively on the topic! And the topic is that thing to be seen in the very first post - and nothing else. This is IMHO the only way to keep it productive and peaceful. Don't wake sleeping dogs we say where I come from.
what about the additional sound chips on advanced MSX ?
Can't we get them too working on CPC ?
Quotewhat about the additional sound chips on advanced MSX ?
Can't we get them too working on CPC ?
Moonsound would be cool :)
http://www.faq.msxnet.org/opl4.html (http://www.faq.msxnet.org/opl4.html)
MSX chips are "Yamaha family" ones...see: http://www.bgmsx.com/?contenido_servicio_tabla=computer_chips (http://www.bgmsx.com/?contenido_servicio_tabla=computer_chips) But they want more...http://supersoniqs.com/projects/ (http://supersoniqs.com/projects/) I feel healthy envy and my CPC too. And if you don't know the work of ValleyBell with *.VGM files and sound chip emulation visit:http://www.smspower.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=2 (http://www.smspower.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=2)
*Some of these are considered new standards of CPC sound?: http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Peripherals#Synthesizer.2C_sampler_and_music_related (http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Peripherals#Synthesizer.2C_sampler_and_music_related)
Maybe CPCBooster or DigiBlaster ?? And FuturePlayer from Dr.Zed are discontinued I think.
*Then SID chip will be OK and some "new" Yamaha too. Existing AY music and games throught this future interfaces? Yeahhh!!!!!
Quote from: RockRiver on 22:41, 06 October 11
*Some of these are considered new standards of CPC sound?: http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Peripherals#Synthesizer.2C_sampler_and_music_related (http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Peripherals#Synthesizer.2C_sampler_and_music_related)
Maybe CPCBooster or DigiBlaster ?? And FuturePlayer from Dr.Zed are discontinued I think.
Ok, these are all different from a sound-chip. But in detail:
- CPCBooster: Still supported from Antitec, maybe you can buy one also. Good for sampling and playing 8 bit samples (stereo)
- DigiBlaster: Cheap (5 Bucks) and easy to make (it's just a bunch of resistors). Good for playing 8 bit samples (mono).
- FuturePlayer: Discontinued. Good for playing MP3's in stereo, 128 kbps works. (Never tried more kbps).
Reason for being discontinued. Was supposed to become a part of the SF-3 card (which exists as prototype, not more).
My idea: Let's make a MP3 player, the easy way.
The topic here: SID ;-)
-- End of line --
A z80 could never decode and play an MP3 at any reasonable bitrate could it?
Bryce.
Quote from: TFM/FS on 00:03, 07 October 11My idea: Let's make a MP3 player, the easy way.
The easy way is to interface an Audio Module to the LPT port and sending bits to command :
PLAY/STOP/PREV/NEXT/VOL+/VOL-
(like PCE Super CD-ROM)Easy to program an audio player without wasting CPU time or adding ingame background musics & keep AY for full SFX!
Easy to build... Just need a dauther board to plug it, rooting bit lines and doing audio mixing.
(may be a power supply connector?)
DC5V operating version :
(19$ = 14€ today)http://www.emartee.com/product/41816/USB%20SD%20MP3%20Sound%20Module (http://www.emartee.com/product/41816/USB%20SD%20MP3%20Sound%20Module)
Datasheet :
http://www.emartee.com/Attachment.php?name=41816.pdf (http://www.emartee.com/Attachment.php?name=41816.pdf)
(http://www.emartee.com/Images/websites/emartee.com/MT9501M03(1).jpg)
So YES, it's not SID... But it's better for the CPC.
But that's not a CPC playing an MP3, it's an MP3 player that uses the CPC as a set of buttons! An insult to the CPC! Being degraded to something that could be done with a few cheap switches. If the Z80 doesn't process the data, then why bother connecting the CPC at all?
Bryce.
Quote from: BryceBut that's not a CPC playing an MP3, it's an MP3 player that uses the CPC as a set of buttons! An insult to the CPC!
So, please, considerate all devices are an insult for the CPC, because you OUT data with the CPU on ports...
Quote from: BryceBeing degraded to something that could be done with a few cheap switches.
Hope you're jocking...
Quote from: BryceIf the Z80 doesn't process the data, then why bother connecting the CPC at all?
Because a computer don't need the CPU for processing an audio stream since 25 years ago...
OK... Decoding MP3 with Z80... And After ? OK it's finish and crappy, and then ?
It's just a geek challenge with some rasters ?
Sorry, but I don't need that on my CPC today!
I partly agree with you!
But the CPC would still be responsible for the sequence of playback events :-) So the Z80 is not completely idle! :laugh:
/Ygdrazil
Quote from: Bryce on 09:32, 07 October 11
But that's not a CPC playing an MP3, it's an MP3 player that uses the CPC as a set of buttons! An insult to the CPC! Being degraded to something that could be done with a few cheap switches. If the Z80 doesn't process the data, then why bother connecting the CPC at all?
Bryce.
Quote from: Ygdrazil on 10:14, 07 October 11But the CPC would still be responsible for the sequence of playback events :-) So the Z80 is not completely idle!
And you can use it for doing stuff while the music still playing (loadings too)
Actually I wasn't joking. For me an expansion is a "Peripheral" for the CPC, ie: the CPC / Z80 does the main task and uses some extra hardware to make it possible. But in your example above, the the MP3 player will work perfectly without a CPC being attached.
Of course all CPC devices aren't an insult. If I add an S-Video output, RAM module, ROMBoard, modem, USB socket, LAN card or HxC to the CPC, then they are all there to enhance what the CPCs Z80 is able to do. But connecting an MP3 module that just uses the CPC as a set of buttons is ridiculous. It would be like interfacing the CPC to a Blu-ray players play/stop button and and claiming the CPC could play 3D films. If the Z80 isn't doing the main task, then the CPC isn't really required. It's just a bulky remote control.
Of course that's just my opinion, go ahead and install a CPC inside an Airbus and claim it can fly. :laugh:
Bryce.
Edit: I don't know the YM2203 Is it widely available? What was it used in? And what can it do better than the SID? I know many people don't like the SID because of it's C64 history, but it's still a great sound chip, that the Z80 could do great things with.
Because it's easy to do, cheaper, and because you can use the CPU for doing other task while playing, it's not suitable for you ?
I don't want to stay closed in "80s"... CPC can do modern stuf today and we have to use thoses opportunities. (SD as Floppy, ...)
After all, please, if you really want to drive a new audio chip with the CPU, please use an YM2203 instead of...
SID sound like an insult for the CPC... ;)
Quote from: Bryce on 10:24, 07 October 11Edit: I don't know the YM2203 Is it widely available? What was it used in? And what can it do better than the SID? I know many people don't like the SID because of it's C64 history, but it's still a great sound chip, that the Z80 could do great things with.
OK, I have moved my edit after, but you see it. ;D
YM2203 was an advanced version of the CPC AY with FM too.
So by combining both, you got 6 AY channels and 3 FM channels (great for bass and drums).
SD as Floppy (HxC) is modern but still very much ok in my book, because it is there to enhance the data storage of the CPC. The CPC is still the master.
Hmmm, the YM2203 does look interesting, but I don't have one (yet). I have a YM2149 here, which is the YM2203s poor country cousin and doesn't offer anything more than an AY. So not worth the bother. If I can get a YM2203 I will definitely look at interfacing it.
Is the YM2203 still available anywhere?
Why is the SID an insult for the CPC?
Bryce.
I found that... Please, listen MP3 at the end of the page :
http://velesoft.speccy.cz/turbosound-cz.htm (http://velesoft.speccy.cz/turbosound-cz.htm)
Quote from: Bryce on 10:43, 07 October 11Hmmm, the YM2203 does look interesting.
If I can get a YM2203 I will definitely look at interfacing it. Is the YM2203 still available anywhere?
I can order for in China by a friend...
Quote from: Bryce on 10:43, 07 October 11Why is the SID an insult for the CPC?
It's a joke, because it's the C64 identity and not the CPC identity. ;)
EDIT:
Some musics (from the link) are using FM for melody instead of AY... So that don't sound more like a CPC.
Realy better to use it for some sound effects, drum and bass and keeping AY at main music.
EDIT2:
Many arcade games (Gun Smoke, Ghosts'N Goblins, Robocop ...) use YM2203 for sounds !!!
No smallest version without the DUAL GPIO... :/ But that can be used for other stuffs...
Ok, now they ARE nice sound interfaces, where the speccy is still doing all the work :)
The MP3s sound nice, but it doesn't say which card was used for which sample? (My Czech isn't very good).
Bryce.
there is already MP3 on CPC... is it the tuner or the peritel box ? ;)
Anyway can't hose soundchip be reproduced by an Arduino mega ?
I saw a SID emulated by such device... so other soundchip may be too...
Just get the wiring schematic and a proper library then.
Also I like the idea to simply add another AY to "only" get the CPC/Plus in 6 sound channels (with some DMA on PLUS) which is quite enough to get sweet and cool stuff.
The schematic for such additional AY already exist yet can probably be improved.
On the other hand, to get the CPC as just a terminal for some stuff is not that useless.
MIDI is more like that, it is not the computer who produce the sound but the various device you connect through the Midi port.
Also some internet on CPC would need the CPC to be more some sort of terminal and graphic card than anything else.
Quote from: Bryce on 10:58, 07 October 11The MP3s sound nice, but it doesn't say which card was used for which sample?
You can read "Turbo AY" (2xAY) and "Turbo AY-FM" (2xAY + FM)
Quote from: Bryce on 08:16, 07 October 11
A z80 could never decode and play an MP3 at any reasonable bitrate could it?
No, not possible.
Look at that Z180 System with mp3 decoder hardware:
http://www.ngsystems.z80.de/ (http://www.ngsystems.z80.de/)
Click Z80/Z180 at the left side, then scroll down and choose "MP3-Player" to have a look at how he's done it.
The German wikipedia entry on mp3 decompression details somewhat how it is done:
"Bei der Dekompression werden die Schritte der Kompression in umgekehrter Reihenfolge ausgeführt. Nach der Huffman-Dekodierung werden die Daten mittels inverser Quantisierung für die inverse modifizierte Cosinustransformation (IMCT) aufbereitet. Diese leitet ihre Daten weiter zu einer inversen Filterbank, die nun die ursprünglichen Samples berechnet (verlustbehaftet durch die Quantisierung im Kodierprozess)."
So the steps are Huffman-decoding, inverse quantisation, inverse modified cosinus-transformation. Hm, need I mention that the Z80 is bad at floating point calculations?
Anyway, my 486dx2 (80MHz) from 15 years ago had problems playing mp3s, and that one had a co-processor. Todays mp3-players use special hardware to decode mp3s, and those usually have a 50+MHz ARM chip, which is known to be cycle efficient but lack floating point instructions.
There's no way a Z80 chip can do anything like that without decoder hardware.
Quote from: TotO on 11:02, 07 October 11
You can read "Turbo AY" (2xAY) and "Turbo AY-FM" (2xAY + FM)
Ah, ok, I was looking at the two MP3 files just above that (Hung-up / Breath of Air) and they don't mention what they were made with :) Nice base and drums :) The "electric guitar" in "Difference" is also quite good.
@MaV: That's exactly what I mean. Hardware for the CPC should be focused on making the most of what the Z80 can do, and a Z80 definitely couldn't play an MP3, so let's move on and concentrate on what it can do.
But a new question: What is the best soundchip that's (A) Really easy to find/buy and (B) could be controlled by Z80? I only chose the SID because I know it and it offers some stuff that the AY doesn't have. If there is some super soundchip out there, that could be fed by the CPC, then I would rather do an interface for that... Why take a half step, when a leap is possible :)
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 12:27, 07 October 11
If there is some super soundchip out there, that could be fed by the CPC, then I would rather do an interface for that... Why take a half step, when a leap is possible :)
I always loved PAULA! You can't get better than one of those, until you hit PC boards; eg SOUNDBLASTER... and then you're talking silly! You may as well have that MP3 board plugged in!
This evening I'll check for the music I prefert. (don't remember the title)
A great soundchip that you can handle with Z80 is the YM2151 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YM2151)!
Cost around 5$ with its stereo DAC.
EDIT
Datasheet :
http://www.ionpool.net/arcade/gottlieb/technical/datasheets/YM2151_datasheet.pdf (http://www.ionpool.net/arcade/gottlieb/technical/datasheets/YM2151_datasheet.pdf)
EDIT2
A nice website about soundchips wiring (schematics) :
http://sue.niko.to/ps98/ (http://sue.niko.to/ps98/)
I was having a browse through my Datasheets here and I've found one interesting IC, that would be a major leap and probably easy to find: The YM3812 was the IC used on the first generation soundblasters / Adlib soundcards, so you'll probably find them at any garage sale. It's easily interfaced to an 8-Bit system and offers quite a bit more than our humble AY: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_YM3812 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_YM3812)
Bryce.
I still think a CPC-SID is a good idea. Nick the best bit of a C64 and put it into a better computer = Result. And I think it's a good idea to adhere to Bryce's sentiment - the CPC is still doing the 'work'. :)
However, I was thinking the other day about the Gravis Ultrasound (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravis_Ultrasound). This had a nice bit of memory where you could load the samples into for playback. Just something I thought I'd add to this melting pot 8)
Quote from: Bryce on 12:52, 07 October 11
I was having a browse through my Datasheets here and I've found one interesting IC, that would be a major leap and probably easy to find: The YM3812 was the IC used on the first generation soundblasters / Adlib soundcards, so you'll probably find them at any garage sale. It's easily interfaced to an 8-Bit system and offers quite a bit more than our humble AY
- YM2151 is a 8 channels 4op FM chip + MIDI ports (dreamed by Atari for the ST... But it's another story)
- YM3812 is a 9 channels 2op FM chip
So, YM3812 sound as bad a PC sound at this time. ;)
YM2151 sound much better.
(like R-Type or Ghouls'N Ghosts in arcade)Here, a nice page about YM chips :
http://www.vorc.org/text/column/hally/ymxxxx.html (http://www.vorc.org/text/column/hally/ymxxxx.html)
Quote from: redbox on 12:54, 07 October 11However, I was thinking the other day about the Gravis Ultrasound (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravis_Ultrasound). This had a nice bit of memory where you could load the samples into for playback. Just something I thought I'd add to this melting pot 8)
It's like Paula in far better... But, it's too heavy to handle by a CPC without DMA...
I think the biggest problem with ANY of these ICs is the availability. It will have to be something that's easy to source, either as a single component or inside something that's easy to get. The SID is a bit strange in that way. The single ICs are offered for €20+ on ebay, but you can get a C64 with one inside for under €10 ?
Regarding the YM2151 - There's an expansion project for the Atari 7800 being built in batches that has a YM2151 inside, but I've no idea where the guy is getting them from :(
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 14:03, 07 October 11
I think the biggest problem with ANY of these ICs is the availability.
No problem in China. All are avaiable in quantity.
I can order for, if it's really used for a project. I already got YM2151, YM2612, YM2203, ...
I have a source in China too, but the prices aren't what I'd expect to pay. How much did you pay for them. (Send me a PM if you don't want to discuss it here).
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 14:03, 07 October 11Regarding the YM2151 - There's an expansion project for the Atari 7800 being built in batches that has a YM2151 inside, but I've no idea where the guy is getting them from :(
New from China... Or refurbished from old arcade PCB.
@Bryce, how do you feel about adding a Z80 DMA controller to take some of the load off the Z80?
Bus expansion got Request and Grand signal ?
If yes, may be, but for sound only... And you need more complex logic on the board.
Better to use a CPC+ ?
@steve: I've never considered that. I'll take a look at what it would take when I have time, but I guess it would mean major internal changes, that most people don't like to do.
Bryce.
Well one thing to remember about DMA is that the Plus already has it... and it's sadly under-utilised.
Killmax (http://www.cpc-power.com/cpcdemos/index.php?page=detail&num=8) and Synergy (http://www.cpc-power.com/cpcdemos/index.php?page=detail&num=1188) demos both have DMA sound with SID like sounds (Atari ST transfers I believe).
And according to CPCRulez (http://cpcrulez.fr/coding_cpcplus45.htm) the trigger for the DMA means it's possible to play samples at ~15khz with little or no processor overhead, which is very impressive.
It's definitely something I'm keen to look into, but there's precious little in the way of example source code.
Thanks all for this "music post".
-My reference is MSX sound expansion development, and I'm fan of Arcade's sound (most of them are YM -yamaha- I.C.s)
A lot of this chips was Z80 governed in arcade's boards... (Great Ghost'n Goblins & Out Run music with lot of channels...)
see technical at: http://www.arcade-history.com/?n=ghosts%27n-goblins&page=detail&id=950 (http://www.arcade-history.com/?n=ghosts%27n-goblins&page=detail&id=950)
or: http://www.arcade-history.com/?n=out-run-deluxe-sit-down-model&page=detail&id=1898 (http://www.arcade-history.com/?n=out-run-deluxe-sit-down-model&page=detail&id=1898)
-OK, in MSX finally they has new sound hardware but not many coders... but they found a solution: MSX expansions and software who tooks sound code for the AY and play it trought the new sound chip. This is possible with SID? or others? We need a powerfull CPU like turboR for that? CPC with another CPU is not a CPC?
-Another wet dream: play MIDI files with CPC: through AY, MIDI interface or elected yamaha new IC. [No software plays MIDIs on CPC yet] Is there a YM chip that make it natively?
Maybe these are only dreams and may be better left alone my CPC with his simple and great AY :-\
Quote from: Bryce on 08:16, 07 October 11
A z80 could never decode and play an MP3 at any reasonable bitrate could it?
Bryce.
You may find this of interrest:
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/FuturePlayer (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/FuturePlayer)
Quote from: RockRiver on 16:29, 07 October 11Another wet dream: play MIDI files with CPC: through AY, MIDI interface or elected yamaha new IC. [No software plays MIDIs on CPC yet] Is there a YM chip that make it natively?
Maybe these are only dreams and may be better left alone my CPC with his simple and great AY :-\
YM2151 look to support MIDI in/out.
But all FM chips will never more sound like a CPC.
It's why I'll prefert to add AY channels instead.
(FM as bonus for complex sounds)
Quote from: redbox on 15:22, 07 October 11
And according to CPCRulez (http://cpcrulez.fr/coding_cpcplus45.htm) the trigger for the DMA means it's possible to play samples at ~15khz with little or no processor overhead, which is very impressive.
Do you know a link in English language?
Quote from: TFM/FS on 17:09, 07 October 11
Do you know a link in English language?
It basically says the DMA pulls a word, being 2 bytes, from main RAM (not extra banks) every 64us which is a scan line. The 2 bytes are 'played' and the counter is then incremented by the DMA. Because the DMA can load 2 bytes every 64us, we can get a sample rate of 15,625 kHz at 8-bit.
There are several commands, but the most useful is LOAD R,D (R being register and D being data) because it works in the same was as feeding the AY on a classic CPC.
There is some source code at the end of the article. I've been thinking that it should be quite easy to adapt, for example, the Digidrums in this STarKos (http://www.grimware.org/doku.php/documentations/software/starkos/howto.player.digidrums) player to use the DMA channels instead of accessing the AY using the Z80 (which takes the whole frame to play a sample).
Ok, so the maximum transfer-rate is one AY register every 64 us. Well, if sound in created "smart", this can be enought :-)
Thank's for the translation.
I know this was discussed much earlier, but I totally agree with the idea that an add on card or peripheral device should be completely dumb without the CPC. Projects like the SID expansion etc should show what the CPC can do when it's in the driving seat with clever coding and hardware design that work in harmony with the CPC. It should be the Z80 that does the bulk of the work, then we can rightly claim that whatever miracle is being achieved has been achieved on the CPC. If the add on device could work without it then Bryce is right, the CPC is relegated to the status of a light switch!
If everything depends on the cpu, then it's the cpu showing what it can do. But in this case it's not the CPC, just a cpu.
IMHO the only important point about an hardware expansion is what it can do. It really doesn't matter in which way it must be programmed or so. Only the result counts.
On the other hand my "likes" are close to the philosophy depicted by Bryce. However it just doesn't matter what I like - what matters is always the result.
Quote from: Badstarr on 22:56, 07 October 11
I know this was discussed much earlier, but I totally agree with the idea that an add on card or peripheral device should be completely dumb without the CPC. Projects like the SID expansion etc should show what the CPC can do when it's in the driving seat with clever coding and hardware design that work in harmony with the CPC. It should be the Z80 that does the bulk of the work, then we can rightly claim that whatever miracle is being achieved has been achieved on the CPC. If the add on device could work without it then Bryce is right, the CPC is relegated to the status of a light switch!
If you want to demonstrate what the CPC is capable of, then you must use an unexpanded CPC, even a rampack is non-standard.
Many computers embrace the concept of the accelerator card and the CPC needs one of those more than most other computers.
Even a quad core PC has graphics and sound processors.
It's a question of proportionality.
While I personally wouldn't really mind an mp3-player for the CPC (as a toy), I'd nevertheless ask myself if such an add-on is even necessary. For one, the chip would be disproportionately more powerful than the Z80. And then (almost?) all of us do already have a device which is quite capable of playing mp3s.
Having the CPC play mp3s is about as ridiculous as providing an OpenGL graphics chip for it, or a math coprocessor. If I want that, I'd do this on a PC.
The CPCs strength nowadays lies in its limits and its retro-factor. Additional sound chips for the CPC (like the AYs and the SID) strengthen the latter and push the former (within reason).
And concerning the discussion about the sound chips, I can only say: Anyway it turns out, it'll be fantastic! :)
Oh, I smell the lack of fantasy :D If you ever play a game on the CPC with MP3 sounds, then you won't ever like to miss it again. 8)
BTW.: Most GFX cards for the PC are more powerfull than the PCs CPU. :laugh:
IMHO the strength of the CPC lies in something very different than a retro factor, but I don't want to write a book here :P
Quote from: TFM/FS on 06:11, 08 October 11
Oh, I smell the lack of fantasy :D If you ever play a game on the CPC with MP3 sounds, then you won't ever like to miss it again. 8)
That may have been true in the 80ies or early 90ies with digitized sounds, which I craved for the CPC to have. 20 something years have passed now and every other device of the shelf can do it now. I couldn't appreciate it for what it is, if I had such a device for the CPC. Adding a couple of sound chips ... now that's another thing altogether.
Quote
BTW.: Most GFX cards for the PC are more powerfull than the PCs CPU. :laugh:
Yes, but that came as an evolution of things and started in the 90ies, much like breeding a new race of dogs. If I added a sophisticated gfx chip to a CPC that would look like a genetically engineered miniature pinscher with the anatomy of a rottweiler.
Instead of MSX, Spectrum or C64 users, the hardware hacking/evolution was not the taste of the CPC community.
Sure, an electronic genie was not born with this computer on hands in 80s... Because there are many improvement to do on our computer that was never done.
MSX users have been the possibility to upgrade it during all it's life, and for this community it's normal to improve sound and graphics capacity and exploit that.
On CPC, it's normal to buy a 464 instead of a 6128 an adding expensive memory and floppy expansion... Hey! What's wrong?
You don't want to play MP3 because it's a temporal junction point of the entire space-time continuum? OK. :D
Good luck for this nice CPC-SID project. Please, don't forget the software support if you want users do music with.
And... A passthru connector to use it with the Megaflash plugged too? :-*
Marty!!! Go ahead with the CPC!!!
I guess my philosophy is, Why change the CPC into a generic PC of sorts? PCs and Macs already have this sewn up.
I have to confess though, I would be first in line for a whizzy add on that could make my CPC into something akin to a Mac or PC (preferably a akin to a Mac lol). That would be great to be able to use my CPC as a hub for email, internet, documents, photos and music production! I would swap my Mac for the CPC right away! The Symbiface goes a long way to achieving that I guess, but a large part of me would mourn the fact the CPC had become a simple terminal if the add on was the brains of the outfit.
I guess that's the paradox, it would be great to see the latest version of Quake being rendered on a GT65 screen and be able to brag about it but if it was the add on that was doing all the work, it's not really the CPC that the achievement can be attributed to.
I like it when some CPC genius finds a way to push the boundaries and make the CPC do something that was thought to be impossible. It reminds me of that line in the CPC user manual that says something along the lines of "Why is it not possible to see a man walk across the screen in the usual way...". Fast forward to 2011 and we can see full motion video on a CPC thanks to SymbOS! Someone found a way to do it!
My fear is that if we outsource tasks to much more powerful external hardware, the boundaries of the original hardware are no longer being pushed, and I think, as far as pushing them is concerned, the limit has not yet been reached.
Quote from: BadstarrI guess my philosophy is, Why change the CPC into a generic PC of sorts?
My philosophy is, why not improving the computer you love in the time?
I don't want a PC... But I will like to got 64 colors palette, 6 channels AY sound... And softwares for using that. :D
So, it's not a SID-CPC who really make me happy, because it will sound like a C64 and not a CPC. But it's this sort of projects that I like to see on my computer ! :)
Quote from: BadstarrI have to confess though, I would be first in line for a whizzy add on that could make my CPC into something akin to a Mac or PC (preferably a akin to a Mac lol). I guess that's the paradox, it would be great to see the latest version of Quake being rendered on a GT65 screen and be able to brag about it but if it was the add on that was doing all the work, it's not really the CPC that the achievement can be attributed to.
A day, I have "dreamed" about an Ethernet board to connect your CPC to a server thru a network, using it as a "terminal".
Only sending controls to the server, CPC engine updating GUI on bottom, playing songs and displaying the received frames on top. So... Doom in multi-players!
Quote from: BadstarrMy fear is that if we outsource tasks to much more powerful external hardware, the boundaries of the original hardware are no longer being pushed, and I think, as far as pushing them is concerned, the limit has not yet been reached.
I understand.
C64 world loves AY-YM...
YM-64 (http://noname.c64.org/csdb/release/?id=91627) or http://web.utanet.at/nkehrer/ (http://web.utanet.at/nkehrer/)
Loves AY-YM world the chip SID? ??? ?
I want a CPC-SID!!! ;)
He done a nice work with this AY "player". :)
Huh, imagine that!! Are there any videos around? YT shows nothing...
Hey!!!! Good CPC-SID news (sorry, another little off topic here, cause is software side. But very interesting) from TomEtJerry (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/demos/sid-player-on-cpc-128k/msg36310/#msg36310)
SIDplayer by Geco
[attach=2] [attach=3]
Maybe another step to SID hardware on CPC...
Toto: you are right. And I got no idea why a lot of CPC users fight any kind of hardware expansions.
Everybody does upgrade every system in the whole galaxis ;-) So why are some old men so stubborn and refuse anything new?? ???
The argument that one doesn't make a PC out of a CPC is as old as stupid. I heart that already '91 and it was already wrong 20 years ago.
If we want to expand the features and power of our CPCs then we can use the most appropriate hardware. And in some cases it may be PC related, and in some cases not. For example: Why not use a USB mouse? It's cheap and it works (see adapter card from Bryce).
The point that makes the CPC-expansion-hardware-denial-philosophy is just one thing: The same people who rather kill you than adding expansions to a CPC do any kind of compiling, assembling, composing, drawing on the PC and copy only the final DSK to a CPC. How sick is that?
My philosopy is still the same: I have a CPC, I work with it, I try to expand it as much as possible. And I don't need any other computer (PC) to run it, or to create for it. But I have no problem it people do stuff on PCs for the CPC. (However I prefer the real CPC in any case, in any situation).
Back to topic! It's cool to see a CPC emualting the SID by software 8)
Nice debate...
That's why I try to promote some stuff like Arduinos cards as generic extensions... for CPCs.
Of course, some especially designed-for custom cards would do a better job, but would be far too specific, and not even cheaper actually.
a good basic ArduinoMega may be good enough to reproduce an AY or a SID actually.
I managed to find some SID emulation at "Arduino's hobby enthousiasts" site...
http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Main/SID-emulator (http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Main/SID-emulator)
But ok, this still need some custom made "shield"... :D
Another SID hardware expansion in this case for ZX ;) SIDBlaster on ZX-Spectrum (prototype) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcgP85Vtnn0#ws)
PD: I would prefer more love for other YM sound chips :P
Syx, I like more new YaMaha-s (expandedMSX; Arcades...) too... see *.VGM files YMs support thanks to ValleyBell (http://www.smspower.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=2).
But this is another story and much more difficult hardware expansion to develop, I think ¿? So first we go with the hardware issue SID, and then later with FM-YMs, MIDI-YMs... 8) Perhaps a parallel development is too far ? :-\
@All: You think that SIDplayer by Geco would have support to the future CPC-SID board like Niiriki's MSX-SIDplayer ?. This has AY SIDemu player option and another realSID playing option like Simon Owen's SAMcoupé SID player. At cpcRulez they are talking about CPC Geco`s SIDplayer code sources... @Syx: You had an old SIDplayer, haven't you? Maybe these two apps could cross ways.
I don't know if new YMs are much more difficult, we have real genious here ;)
A nice thing is that a lot of them has an AY embedded, totally compatible, and you can use the extras only if you want, in other case we would have an extra AY with a more faster cpu access :)
Other great thing is there is a few music programs for compose for these chips. Only will need to convert a player to CPC and they don't take too much cpu, always a great thing for our machines. For me they always look the more sensible evolution for our CPCs :)
My old sidplayer was a conversion of the Simon Owen's player, nothing too special and nothing that Geco has not make already :)
Quote from: Badstarr on 16:06, 08 October 11
I like it when some CPC genius finds a way to push the boundaries and make the CPC do something that was thought to be impossible. It reminds me of that line in the CPC user manual that says something along the lines of "Why is it not possible to see a man walk across the screen in the usual way...". Fast forward to 2011 and we can see full motion video on a CPC thanks to SymbOS! Someone found a way to do it!
Yes and we could do it
years before already with FutureOS, but in
real fullscreen and with much
higher framerate. I'm talking about the first half of the 90ies 8)
Heh, our card could be compatible with CPC and Sam-Coupe! If someone would be interested in connection of card to CPC, I'll try to do that.
BTW, now we have official homepage: http://zxbyte.ru/sid_blaster_en.htm (http://zxbyte.ru/sid_blaster_en.htm) :)
Holy shit, it's an entire (90%) C64 on a board! Why do you need to make it so complicated? Is it not much easier and cheaper to just interface the SID directly to the Spectrums expansion port and let the Z80 send the commands to the SID?
Bryce.
Yes, why so complicated...
Amazing achiewement though, Need to go looking for Commodore 64 :P
/ygdrazil
Quote from: Bryce on 09:35, 20 February 12
Holy shit, it's an entire (90%) C64 on a board! Why do you need to make it so complicated? Is it not much easier and cheaper to just interface the SID directly to the Spectrums expansion port and let the Z80 send the commands to the SID?
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 09:35, 20 February 12
Holy shit, it's an entire (90%) C64 on a board! Why do you need to make it so complicated? Is it not much easier and cheaper to just interface the SID directly to the Spectrums expansion port and let the Z80 send the commands to the SID?
Bryce.
The first variant was only as interfacing part (buffers + sid + clock circuit). But SID-files are complete programs for 6510 CPU, and even my 7MHz Spectrum couldn't manage with some PSID tunes, all of the RSID were not playable (because of lack of CIA emulation). And your spectrum should have available function to place RAM instead of ROM ($0000-$3FFF area). This card is only 20% of real C64, because we've implemented only interrupt part of VIC-II chip (it is only little part of IC), and what about videocircuitry itself, hardware sprites and more? The schematic is not so complicated, as it seems to be. In the final project there will be only FPGA, data buffer and four SIDs. :)
I was only joking about the 90%, but I still don't see the point of having so much hardware to allow 6510 code to run. Why not write Spectrum code that can read the SID data and send it directly to the IC? ie: Write a converter (for PC even) that extracts just the SID data so that a Spectrum program can play it.
Bryce.
Right!
For people who want all the extra hardware stuff it would be more easy to connect a c64 motherboard to the CPC as slave sound processor. And that's it :P Even loading songs would be very quick now 8)
It's not so much the mass of hardware that would bother me, it's the fact I'd have to go and learn 6502 assembly to actually make any use of it. A SID hooked directly to the Z80 would be considerably easier from a developer point of view.
Of course! A clean solution!
why not resurrect this project to make it Mother X4 compatible - and don't forget a jumper on it, so 2 dualSid boards can work together... it is kinda sucky when people only let you put 1... if it isn't too hard to put 2... make a Mother X4 board with 2 SIDs and Digiblaster Support (DA converter, you can make it AMDRUM compatible even) then I will buy two of them...
It already is/was "M4 Compatible" - which actually just means putting the correct connector on the PCB. M4 isn't some magic new port, it's just a splitter. The project died because nobody wanted one.
Bryce.
now you have 2 people who want one, the 2 of me...
If I ever actually make some, you and your alter-ego will be first and second in the list to get them :)
Bryce.
lol, thanks. Actually I think it is a good idea - and hope to encourage you, although I also hope you don't make a loss on it overall.
Do a CPC-Pokey and we'll be talking! :P
Quote from: robcfg on 08:37, 16 September 16
Do a CPC-Pokey and we'll be talking! :P
Find me a cheap source for Pokey chips and I'm with you.
Bryce.
Gentleman, we do have the working PlayCity which is supported by software already. Me as genuine CPC user, I don't like c64 stuff. Atari 800XL stuff on the other hand is ok. But as told, we get the PlayCity now. :)
Well, here is another iteration of this idea; just wanted to add this to this thread as well - due to partial address decoding, CPC Speak&SID is currently using &FAC0 - &FADF for now. 12 V is still an issue, but nano SwinSID only requires 5V.
https://youtu.be/zLsgOHT1fmA (https://youtu.be/zLsgOHT1fmA)
I DO like the SID and C64 stuff ;)