Hi all,
I don't know if this is of any use to anyone else other than me, but just in case... I intend making a few Cartridge PCBs at the weekend, so I did a PCB layout, which I've uploaded here: http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/DIY_Cartridge
It has a few minor changes (Jumpers instead of LKs), but generally it's just the standard cartridge layout and fits in the original housing.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 21:18, 30 November 10
Hi all,
I don't know if this is of any use to anyone else other than me, but just in case... I intend making a few Cartridge PCBs at the weekend, so I did a PCB layout, which I've uploaded here: http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/DIY_Cartridge (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/DIY_Cartridge)
It has a few minor changes (Jumpers instead of LKs), but generally it's just the standard cartridge layout and fits in the original housing.
Bryce.
cool!
Great work! That's exactly what I need!!! Thanks a lot!!!!!
Niiice! Do post a pic of one once you've made them! :)
I made three PCBs tonight, will do pictures tomorrow if I have time. I also uploaded a new version of the layout. In case anyone downloaded the old one already, the change is only cosmetic, the old one works too, but there was a chance that two pins might be shorted if the manufacturing process wasn't accurate.
Bryce.
Another busy night and some pics to prove it :)
Here are some finished and partly finished Cartridges, and a comparison to an original:
Bryce.
Awesome!!!
Great stuff , thanks a lot ;D
Yes, looks really great, very professional job.
I have spent this evening disassembling the ROM-RAM Booster ROM (which lets you access ROMs higher than 0-15) and have got somewhere with it - it definitely patches some OS stuff, so here's hoping... ???
Salivating over a peace of PCB=geekness.
Really great stuff...
Quote from: redbox on 23:03, 02 December 10
Yes, looks really great, very professional job.
I have spent this evening disassembling the ROM-RAM Booster ROM (which lets you access ROMs higher than 0-15) and have got somewhere with it - it definitely patches some OS stuff, so here's hoping... ???
Well, you have to put it to ROM number 15, it will just initialize the ROMs 16-31. Then the usual ROM initialization process of the OS continues. The ROM booster, however, omits to get double initialized. The actual code is quite small. But since it was made with ROM Gen 1.16 there is other code, that is not really needed.
Even if I'm still learning Z80, try to figure out how I will succeed to make a game, you have no idea how happy I am to see all these progress during this year on the CPC scene!
And I'm so happy to have my own CPC working now thanks to Fano!
Yesterday Redboxes Cartridges arrived and luckily the ACIDs all seem to be fine, so I removed one for the DIY Cartridge and copied PANG to an EPROM to test everything worked fine (which it did :) ). I edited the original casing so that it all fits back together. You can see the results below. The cut-out is slightly larger than just the EPROM because the Jumpers need to be accessable and the ACID is also in a socket so that Redbox can remove it to test software with and without the ACID.
Bryce.
This is simply amazing. What a fantastic job Bryce. :)
Did you find that Pang was infact a 128kb cartridge? I see LKs 1 and 6 are set in the photo...?
The BIN was 128K so I didn't check, I just copied it to a 27C1001 and everything worked fine. I've just made a few extra changes too, I added labels for the LKs and I've added a screw, because the cartridge casing was rather unstable once it's been opened and the tabs are broken. This is what it looks like now:
It'll be in the post on Monday, so you can try it out for yourself later in the week.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 22:28, 04 December 10
The BIN was 128K so I didn't check, I just copied it to a 27C1001 and everything worked fine.
I just checked with a hex editor and Pang is 128kb. The 512kb versions (as on the WinAPE website) are just the 128kb game copied 4 times in the ROM.
Quote from: Bryce on 22:28, 04 December 10
It'll be in the post on Monday, so you can try it out for yourself later in the week.
Can't wait! :)
Quote from: redbox on 22:44, 04 December 10
I just checked with a hex editor and Pang is 128kb. The 512kb versions (as on the WinAPE website) are just the 128kb game copied 4 times in the ROM.
Can't wait! :)
Yeah, but still, why???
Quote from: Gryzor on 01:43, 05 December 10
Yeah, but still, why???
Not sure. As Bryce pointed out, back then 512kb EPROMs would have been much more expensive than 128kb ones, so it doesn't make sense commercially.
I expect that the reason it was a 512kb cartridge is that this is what they had available. However, I had a genuine Robocop 2 cartridge that contained a 128kb EPROM where as everyone else seems to have a 512kb one.
Maybe they were thinking of developing 512kb games and when they went to make the carts (which was a bit of a rush job by the sound of reports at the time, and there was also a lot of manufacturing delays which 'killed the market' because of a lack of games on launch) this was all they had so they used them for 128kb games just so they could get them out in time.
About theses 512K dumps , are original eproms 128K or 512K (i speak about commercial games , not polish awfull hacks) ? i suspect more some dumps to be 512K because you always "see" 512K with LKs system.
Sweet, how much did it cost you ?
How much would it cost complete (but the casing..?) with the ACID chip sold on the net and à 512K ROM ?
Well the case and the ACID came from an original cartridge that Redbox sent me, so they didn't cost anything. The PCB cost €2.10, but it's enough to build three of them, so (not including the chemicals to make the PCB or the time involved):
32 pole Socket: 0.50 (low profile / gold contacts)
16 pole Socket: 0.29 (low profile / gold contacts)
100nF Capacitor: 0.04 (X7R multi-layer ceramic)
Circuitboard: 0.70 (1.5mm double-sided 35µm Copper)
512K EPROM: 4.25 (27C4001)
Jumpers (3): 0.15
Jumper Pins: 0.07 (2x10 RM2.54 only 2x6 needed)
Total: 6.00
....Owning your own configurable cartridge.... Priceless :D
The ACID was only put in a socket because Redbox wanted to use the cartridge to experiment with cartridge software, so I suggested the socket to allow ACID-less tests to be done, otherwise I'd normally solder this in. I also suggested that he should use a Flash for his experiments, because it will work exactly the same in this cartridge (except for the 512K 29F040) and saves an awful lot of time due to not needing UV deletion every time.
I don't know what the ACIDs cost online, so add the price of that to the total.
Bryce.
Edit: Oops, mistake: the 29F040 has a slightly different pinout to the 27C4001, so they are NOT compatible, the other Flashes 29F010, 29F020 are compatible with the 27C1001 and 27C2001 and can be used as a replacement.
Quote from: Bryce on 13:54, 06 December 10
I don't know what the ACIDs cost online, so add the price of that to the total.
If you get 100, then n-tronics goes down to 8,211 Euro per piece (including taxes), which is quite a lot for such a small IC >:(
That's a ridiculous price. I can buy old cartridges on the interweb for cheaper and remove the ACIDs :D
Bryce.
Quote from: TFM/FS on 17:22, 06 December 10
If you get 100, then n-tronics goes down to 8,211 Euro per piece (including taxes), which is quite a lot for such a small IC >:(
You can buy a whole cartridge for that (well 9 EUR anyway).
Quote from: redbox on 17:40, 06 December 10
You can buy a whole cartridge for that (well 9 EUR anyway).
I would if I could ::)
I just made a layout for a Multi-Cartridge (an idea that DevilMarkus came up with a while back). The cartridge can only take a 512K EPROM or Flash (I put a jumper on to select which pin configuration for EPROM / Flash) and the 512K are divided up into 4x 128K sectors. Using two DIP switches, you can decide which EPROM the CPC sees, so you can have four games on one cartridge. I'll make one later this week and confirm that it works. It still fits in a standard original case and the DIP switches can be changed without removing it. Obviously the CPC should be turned off, but is saves you having to constantly remove it (and the contacts will live longer).
Bryce.
Quote from: TFM/FS on 19:13, 06 December 10
I would if I could ::)
Well that's what I paid for all of my cartridges.
eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/) and patience are your friends!
Yes, patience is a virtue. And if I order that stuff from ebay UK, then I pay 9 bucks for the cart and 18 for shipping... at ebay.de you can wait until you become black (means roughly three years after death... ??? ). So I have to get some new carts made...
Try the french one, there's two there at the moment for 4.99 each.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 22:12, 06 December 10
Try the french one, there's two there at the moment for 4.99 each.
Isn't it weird that eBay France is so different to all the other ones[nb]and I won't make the joke that this is just like the French, I promise[/nb]...?
But yes, the French have a lot of Plus stuff available and postage to Germany must surely be reasonable?
It depends on the seller. I've bought quite a few things there. Some sent me the things for the same price as french buyers would have paid, but I had one idiot who wanted 40€ to send a small package, needless to say I didn't buy the item. I always ask first, then bid. Also, most of the sellers state that they will only send to France, but if you ask, most will agree to send to Germany too (and possibly elsewhere) :)
Bryce.
Quote from: redbox on 22:16, 06 December 10
Isn't it weird that eBay France is so different to all the other ones[nb]and I won't make the joke that this is just like the French, I promise[/nb]...?
But yes, the French have a lot of Plus stuff available and postage to Germany must surely be reasonable?
I remember when it was ibazar.fr
And here it is, plugged into my 6128 Plus :)
It's an awesome design and testament to Bryce's skills.
Can't wait to start developing with it!
And I can confirm that my custom Plus System Cartridge (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Plus_System_Cartridge) works in real life too.
I am one happy man :)
/me is a jealous man.
rebox: ebay france is so different because ebay doesn't meet success, we prefer "le bon coin" (mean good place) http://www.leboncoin.fr/
there's a lot of cpc stuff in there.
Pas mauvais, that's a serious amount of CPC hardware on offer, but will they ship abroad? It seems to be a french site for french people, but impressive. I might send a few E-mails out and see if they are willing to ship to Germany.
Bryce.
Reminds me there is a 6128PLUS to sell just near my town... but 50€uros seems a bit lot...
The machines doesn't seems to have Cartridges (appart from the Brunin'Rubber+Basic) and perhaps no disks...
I will still get a word to the guy.
But this would be my 3rd monitor...erf... I have no more room for those...
Would anyone be interested ?
Also if a new generation of cartridge is to be, a Barbarian compilation could be sweet...
Just imagine Barbarian 1 and 2 on the same cartridge, actually sharing bits of engine and graphics ?
this could unlock a super duel mode with Axe armed sprite or Hottie sprite...
Or extra Adventure modes...
Or even to chose exotic warriors (Goblins, orks and so on...)...
Would need a new engine from scratch though.
BTW I need to get my hand on some sockets and spare Flash ROMs one of theses days...
It's good that the serious Hardwarers you are are starting to play with the cartridge potential... ::)
@Gryzor :
QuoteSalivating over a peace of PCB=greekness.
oh you... :laugh:
Up to a few weeks ago I didn't own a Plus, nor had I ever seen a Plus or cartridge in real life. But now that I have them, it's got me interested. Unfortunately it's distracted me from other projects (sorry TFM), but I'll get back to them full-time again soon.
I made the multi-cartridge this week and will test it at the weekend (and release some photos too) :)
Bryce.
... sounds quite interresting. Wish you that everything works out perfect :)
Perhaps next step : a PCB designed to have an emulated ACID with a programable chip... ::)
That's already on my "list of projects". I had started investigating this and then I thought Nocash was going to do this, so I stopped working on it (no point in two people doing the same thing), but I've no idea whether he's still doing anything on this or has left it also? There were also others (at one of the meetings, can't remember who) that have already successfully emulated the ACID with a CPLD, but it was one of the larger ones. I don't know if it's possible to manage this with something like a GAL16V8, but that would be the ideal situation, because it would still fit in a standard cartridge housing and it's cheap and easily sourced. Maybe I'll make it my first project for 2011?
Bryce.
Get in contact with Octoate and Nilquader, they did the ACID emulation (on the X-ZentriX meeting 2010). Guess a GAL is far away from being "enough" to emulate the ACID.
That's the one I was thinking of, maybe they're working on further solutions. The reason I suggested a small GAL is because there are still thru-pin versions available with 20pin packages, which would keep things non-SMD, small enough for the original cartridge case and hobbiest friendly.
Bryce.
Quote(no point in two people doing the same thing)
But a good point if they do it together... :-\
A CPLD/PIC/whatever emulated ACID solution would certainly need to be removable-ROM based...
To put the Acid on socket is a clever move because it reduces the risk to destroy it while soldering it... Those Buggers tends to be valuable and rare Items...
would you sell complete kits (minus the ACID of course) for your 512k Cart ?
I mean, I have no Electronic hobby shop near my home and getting those components by mail may be quite ridiculously high on shipping-fee...
Also what about using Flash ROM instead of EEPROM ?
May this be easier to put softwares in thoses ?
QuoteGuess a GAL is far away from being "enough" to emulate the ACID.
ACID emulation may need a good amount of "clocking"...
but what about using 2 cheaper components instead of only one ? well perhaps not a good idea...
Quotea small GAL is because there are still thru-pin versions available with 20pin packages
I agree, a socket for surface mounted chip is quite expensive.
I doubt any reasonably priced PIC would ever manage to emulate an ACID. The reason for this is that the ACID is a pure logic device that doesn't have a clock frequency, ie: much like a simple AND gate immediately reacts to the given inputs, the ACID does the same. A PIC is clock based, so it reads the inputs makes some decisions on what it should do and then sets the outputs, so even if the PIC was running at 100Mhz (which would also require a crystal and other components on the cartridge) it would still reply way too late for the CPC which expects an answer on the next clock cycle.
A GAL is much the same as an ACID: A collection of logical building blocks, which when put in the right order will immediately answer the CPCs request. The only question is how many building blocks are required to achieve the functionality of an ACID and is there a reasonably priced, small, non-SMD GAL with enough building blocks?
As far as Flash is concerned, the DIY Cartridge can take a 29F010 (128K Flash) or a 29F020 (256k Flash) instead of EPROM, but not the 29F040 (512k Flash) because the pinout is different. On the multi-Cartridge I added a jumper to get around this problem, but I haven't added this to the standard DIY Cartridge (yet).
As far as selling blank cartridges is concerned, I don't personally intend building any more cartridges or selling them, but there are plans to have a large batch of cartridges built professionally and sold (with ACID as far as I know) to the community. I will add the Flash jumper to this version. More on this to come later...
Bryce.
Quotebut there are plans to have a large batch of cartridges built professionally and sold (with ACID as far as I know) to the community.
Good, I'll wait for those then.