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Today we got some great expansions for the CPC and _eventually_ we also have good software to use it at least under the native OS. It's different already when looking at CP/M (, SymbOS or FutureOS).

There is one mass storage solution which provides the imho best solution of software. It's the Dobberting HD20 hard-disc. It's very easy to program and it's perfectly integrated into the native OS (X-DDOS 2.10), CP/M 2.2 (even providing 63 KB of TPA) and especially CP/M Plus (excellent integration using RSX architecture native to CP/M Plus). In addition we even got the source code of all that magic!

Now the question is: Who will emulate the HD20 first? For both - the M4 expansion and the Symbiface 3 - it would be very simple to provide the few ports needed to emulate the HD20.
The HD controller commands could probably be emulated in an easy way. Also - SF3 and M4 - both have already a mass storage part. So one or more virtual HD20's could be emulated. All that's needed it a 20 MB file on the mass storage.

How is up for this idea?

What's the point in emulating a mass storage device on a mass storage device ?

Quote from: SkulleateR on 00:24, 22 April 22What's the point in emulating a mass storage device on a mass storage device ?

The point is to be able to use an abundant load of software. See my first post.

It would be a better way to adapt the software for use with modern mass storage like done with HDCPM. 

HDCPM is a great thing! But only few people own a SF2 today.

Let's please come back to the topic and not follow up the "your idea is sheet" street. If you don't like my idea - fine. Your choice. I really don't mind. 

Well, then back to topic. For the Dobbertin HD20 there is really LOTS of great software. Furthermore it's implementation in CP/M (2.2 and Plus) is done really awesome. I have the source code here. It's even quicker than the CP/M RAM disc. Just to give you an idea.

It also can be fully used under Z3Plus. For CLI / scripting stuff it's a dream.

In addition it would be really just awesome if the SF3 or M4 card can emulate it. Actually it should be very easy.

How will win the race? The M4 or the SF3 or... maybe some other mass media?

What are you seeking? To emulate the HD20 hardware and ROM, or just to emulate the X-DDOS ROM?

Quote from: GUNHED on 00:41, 01 May 22HDCPM is a great thing! But only few people own a SF2 today.

Uhmmm, as far as I have seen, multiple mass storage solutions are supported, including M4 and USIfAC II ;)

So .... why invent the wheel again for an expansion that nearly no one needs/uses anymore ???

And don´t get me wrong, I don't think your idea is shit (sheet is something different btw. ;) ) but a better way to bring those software to the (CPC)masses would be to adapt this work to modern solutions instead of emulating a lifeless architecture ....

Quote from: GUNHED on 00:04, 29 April 22The point is to be able to use an abundant load of software. See my first post.

The first post only mentions CP/M. Which other software takes advantage of it? 

We have a Wiki page here about the great Dobbertin HD20 hard disc. Lots of data is missing, but it's a good start iirc.

BTW: It was by far the most sold hard disc for CPC of all times. Yes the unit number sold was in the many thousands. Vortex and other producers sold far less hard discs for the CPC.

The HD20 has two main advantages: The first is the very high speed and the quality of it's implementation by software in all known OS (at the commercial era).

The second thing is way more important: Lot's of software was written to work with the HD20 together very smooth. For CP/M for example not only hard-disc support per se was added, but in addition time stamps and other features.

The biggest an most professionalEmulation _Dobbertin_HD20.txt Emulation _Dobbertin_HD20.txt applications are adapted to it: Maxam II, Protext, Prowort, Cosmos, ASCII-Tools and many more.

A CP/M Plus with Dobbertin HD20 support is the ONLY way on the CPC to work with a proper (not floppy disc based) Z3Plus system. Forget any other OS on CPC, the features of Z3Plus are more than anything else.

Many people request features for the CPC. But this is already available: Use Z3Plus!!! And for that you need the Dobbertin HD20. And for that you need to emulate the HD20 with modern hardware.

@Duke and @TMTLOGIC could be able to implement a simulation of the HD20 into the M4 and the SF3 expansion. It's a quick thing (compared to previous work).

Of course I will help where I can, see the following documents please...

Well, just giving this topic a push. Imagine the possibilities.  :) :) :)

Sounds like a good idea for someone to simulate it, ideally in a hard file I think and then extend the dsk support to allow amsdos commands to use the 20mb hardfile also.  The hardfile i suggest because the limitations of cpm.

It would be very easy (imho) to simulate the HD20 on SF3 or M4 expansions, because both contain already an SD card. Now just reserve 21 MB of the SD card, that space can be used to simulate cylinders and sectors of the HD20. 

From the software perspective the point is: To have something being compatible with HD20 hard disc (and that need only few ports to be emulated anyway).

However I posters here seem not the get the point of how cool it would be. 
Existing software was made in a nearly perfect way (HD20 is even more quick compared to memory floppy in some OS!). To have the software running with new devices would be very desirable.

Especially with SF3 (and maybe M4) we have to first time the chance to emulate existing and perfectly programmed hardware.

From a software perspective it's a pain to be forced to reinvent the wheel again, because every developer of hardware cooks his own soup without compatibility to existing solutions.

All my hope are going to SF3 to be honest. And I'm very confident that the emulation of the HD20 with be used and appreciated by a huge number of users. Uses which don't even know how versatile the HD20 hard disc is - because they don't have one.

Where do you think all the real HD20's went?  are they stored in peoples cupboards? thrown out in the trash? I'd like a Vortex 512kb RAM board simulated in an Mx4 card.

Quote from: zhulien on 17:27, 03 March 23I'd like a Vortex 512kb RAM board

Still got one laying around, want to buy it ;) ?

Quote from: SkulleateR on 19:43, 03 March 23

Quote from: zhulien on 17:27, 03 March 23I'd like a Vortex 512kb RAM board

Still got one laying around, want to buy it ;) ?

Thanks for the offer, but I'd like it in my 6128 Plus

Please don't make a comedy thread out of this. I know that bored people like to post here funny stuff, but please don't do it in the technical serous threads. Also please don't even answer my comment, this would ultimately lead to some discussion about anything else but the topic.

We want to create a simulator / emulator of the Dobbertin HD20 hard disc. And this means that either the SF3 or the M4 card would provide a few additional ports to read / write blocks of 512 bytes.

If you want to support this project then please post here or - even better - talk friendly to the producers of SF3, M4 or what every you think could be used.  :)

What are you up to? Several directly formatted CP/M file system partitions on the storage medium? Or should it be image files in a FAT file system?

The SF3 and M4 could provide an image file (I already created one). This file on the SF3/M4 mass storage can be used. 
Of course it would be desirable to be able to 'switch' this image file. That's the easy part. A bit more work needs to be invested into the emulation of the few ports of the HD20 hard disc of course.
In SF3 world there is some interest in this project and maybe even a bit more. Let's see where the great HD20 comes back to live first.

Eventually it's DONE!!!!!!!!!!

Wonders happens :-)))))))))))))))))))

Thanks to Frits from the Symbiface III development team the SF3 now emulates the Dobbertin HD20 hard disc - including support for the native OS, for CP/M Plus and CP/M 2.2 - fully integrated. Also FutureOS works 100% flawless with the HD20 emulation.

Have been testing that today for quite a while and it's just working perfekt!!! Thank's for my personal X-MAS in July!!!  :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

The 21 MB image of the HD20 is quite full with productivity software already and CP/M (Plus and 2.2) can be booted form hard-disc. Nice!

Well, I'm sure there will be an official announcement sooner or later. All you need is the new firmware update, the hard-disc-image and X-DDOS (expanded DOS from Dobbertin, compatible to Amsdos, RDOS and others). CP/M is already on the hard-disc-image and can be be stated by !CPM,4 (,5,6,7) to boot from partition D (,E,F,G).  :)