Hello,
Is it possible to build an all in one PCB for Megaflash included 512kb usual RAM Exp and lower ROM switch?
So we would just need one Expansion for all?
That would be probably the best expansion board and the most useful thingy.
Just some thoughts....
Tom / Pentagon
Yes of course it's possible, a no-brainer in fact, but the reason I've kept everything separate is because not everyone wants everything. The "All singing and dancing" (Eierlegendewollmilchsau) version would be large and expensive. Some people just want the RAM, some just the ROM, so why should they pay for all the other stuff they don't want. That's why I've kept my stuff modular and compatible. Of course it adds a little bit to the price for the cable / connectors etc. but it also make it possible for everyone to pick and choose exactly what they want for their "ultimate CPC". After I've released the RAM expansion, I'll do an all-in-one module layout and have it priced, then we can see how many people would really be interested.
Bryce.
Sounds logical and great !
I am still interested, if you like we can try to work out together to build an "internal all singing and dancing powercard".
An internal solution with all expansions at one card together :o
That would be "WOW!"
Cheers
Tom
If you are going to build a "big" internal expansion board for the CPC, you could make it a replacement for the mainboard, you could then give the CPC some of the features of the plus, like 4096 colours.
I am thinking more about a usual daughterboard for internal use, like the amiga turbocards. Open CPC6128 plug out some chips. Put the chips into the new daughterboard and plugin the "internal 512 kb Memory, Megaflash, Lower Rom Board", close the case and its done.
I dont know if its possible to create it as small and tiny that it fit between Mainboard and Disc drive.... but that would be a great idea to do.
Your idea is like to build a new CPC at an FPGA and not the same idea i am following (your idea is great but its like to design a new CPC7512^^).
I like to build an 100% compatible internal card with all the features of the usual 512kb extra Memory, Megaflash for Parados, FOS,Bdos etc. and a lower ROM Board for switching the 6128 between 464 / 6128 mode and own init screens.
So it would expand the usual 6128 to a most compatible CPC Version ever made and its switchable to downgrade to 464 and you can play Country Cottages or other 464 games too.
I like the idea, in combination with an internal SD-HxC like i did some time ago. You never need a disc again and you always use the most compatible expanded to the max CPC.
And its still just one CPC without any external cables. Just Power and Videocable and nothing else. That would be awesome or?
Cheers
Tom
Well, ok, I don't know how many people would be interrested. However it may be worth asking the community if they would like 4 MB or RAM instaed of the regular 512 KB....
Ok, ok, I already talked too much about the 4 MB, but it's just fascinating me. And maybe some other people here would be intrrested too. If you are one of them, if you have interest in 4 MB RAM, then please reply here!!!
Aside of ROM, RAM, Lower-ROM, and PS2/USB mouse adapter it may be worth considering some other gimmicks (RTC, SIO, PIO, IDE, dreams...). However it's up to Bryce to consider that kind of stuff.
I definitely would take one if it would have 4 MB RAM :)
For the first point, I don't think an all-in-one PCB for Megaflash including RAM Expansion and lower ROM switch is a good idea considering power consumption OR we will add a switch for each part (ROM and RAM).
For the second point, plain internal integration give an additional difficulty with this : we will need to perforate the case in order to make the switches available to the user OR add long wires emerging with switches through the expansion port : bweerk : I don't want to do that to my beloved (27 years of common life) CPC !
Moreover, possibility to switch on/off each expansion may be required for compatibility issues with software.
Considering your question, TFM, 512kb is all I need for the moment, but I would appreciate the 4 Mb expansion in case it could be switched on/off independently from the 512Kb "dk'tronics-like" base. (similar motivations that points above).
My point is : Don't ask to much to Bryce at a time or all of this will end as a forsaken project. I do remember the (in)famous CPCNG (next generation CPC) project that never provided anything tangible.
Quote from: TFM/FS on 00:04, 18 March 12Aside of ROM, (4MB, yes please :-* ) RAM, Lower-ROM, and PS2/USB mouse adapter it may be worth considering some other gimmicks (RTC, SIO, PIO, IDE, dreams...). However it's up to Bryce to consider that kind of stuff.
It looks like a SymbiFace3 (on steroids & with some of Yarek's DNA thrown in), ::) it quacks like a SymbiFace3 (MP3 or not), ;) too bad that one never surfaced to the shores of Lake Starnberg. :(
Quote from: qbert on 00:18, 18 March 12
For the first point, I don't think an all-in-one PCB for Megaflash including RAM Expansion and lower ROM switch is a good idea considering power consumption OR we will add a switch for each part (ROM and RAM).
No need for that power consumption is quite small. My 6128 has 4 MB RAM, 2.5 MB Flash, an RTC, HD20 hard-disc controller, lightpen-box, Vidi-CPC Video-Digitizer and Vortex FDC-Box all at the same time. And all runs stable and well.
Quote from: qbert on 00:18, 18 March 12
Considering your question, TFM, 512kb is all I need for the moment, but I would appreciate the 4 Mb expansion in case it could be switched on/off independently from the 512Kb "dk'tronics-like" base.
No need for that the 4 MB expanson is 100% compatible to the 0.5 MB expanion. If fact the 4 MB can be considered as 8x 0.5 MB.
Power consumption wouldn't really be an issue, and for the buttons/switches, I also have a relatively neat solution, that would keep most people happy. The real problem would be interfacing to the Mainboard. There is no single IC that has all the signals I would need. Those of you who know Amiga 500/600 hardware will know that usually the expansions plugged onto Gary, or Fat Agnus (or to the 68000 in one case), both ICs had most if not all of the connections required. The CPC is a different story. I would need to interface to so many places and most of these aren't on one IC, they are all over the place and depending on whether you have a 464/664/6128/Low Cost PCB etc the signals are in different places on each version, this makes things very difficult. The only place that all the signals come together (on all versions) is the expansion port, hence I prefer to keep things external.
But That's not to say that I won't take a look at this project later, I just have other stuff I'd prefer to do first.
Bryce.
@Bryce, I do agree with that. As an example of an internal additional board the Vortex 512 KB RAM expansion for the 464 may serve. IIRC it does connect to threee (!) different ICs in the 464 and it was never ever released for the 6128, because it would need them to do a complete redesign of the board.
So I do definitely prefer expansions at the expansion board.
There is another important point to consider: An expansion at the expansion port can be used with different CPCs (my 6128Plus and my CPC6128, even my CPC64140. But the internal stuff would be good for only one CPC.
pentagon,
There is of course the symbiface unit which has the 512K RAM expansion and expansion ROM included in the interface.
rpalmer
Me likey. I wouldn't mind terribly if it was an external board - though an internal one would of course be much neater -, and I'd certainly be willing to pay the price (I guess). I'd love that - an excellent idea for a fantastic souped-up CPC++...
@rpalmer: yes, but it requires its own power supply which is a downer if you're looking for elegance and simplicity...
Quote from: Gryzor on 19:37, 18 March 12
@rpalmer: yes, but it requires its own power supply which is a downer if you're looking for elegance and simplicity...
However, an advantage if you like to connect some more additional cards.
SCNR, but seriously?
Quote from: rpalmer on 19:15, 18 March 12
There is of course the symbiface unit which has the 512K RAM expansion and expansion ROM included in the interface.
Or did you mean to say:
Rare is of course the Symbiface...
Quote from: OCT on 19:12, 19 March 12
SCNR, but seriously?Or did you mean to say:
Rare is of course the Symbiface...
125 units have been produced and sold. That's not rare for the CPC.
Quote from: TFM/FS on 00:04, 18 March 12
Ok, ok, I already talked too much about the 4 MB, but it's just fascinating me. And maybe some other people here would be intrrested too. If you are one of them, if you have interest in 4 MB RAM, then please reply here!!!
Back in the day I found the adverts for Amstrad CPC 464 very fascinating. The adverts said that the 464 could have 4 MB of ROM software, I think it was ROM. It would be nice to have it, and release this part of the 464s potential :)
Theoretically it could. The 4MB ROM would be if you had all 252 sideways ROMs attached. Electronically speaking, no problem, but each ROM takes a little bit of RAM, so in practice it would never really work, the RAM would be immediately filled and you'd have no space for anything to run.
Even the 32 ROMs that the MegaFlash offers is borderline as far a RAM usage is concerned, depending on what ROMs you've installed (some need more RAM than others).
Bryce.
what about getting a USB port to put a USB memory stick on it (or non usb memory stick actually... a little thing the size of my little finger nails can hold 8Gigas nowadays, for a few €uros...) that would act just like a Hard Disk Drive ?
how does the HDD works on a CPC ? is it a practicle thing ?
I know old PCs used to have shittons of DMA for those, hence fast and good disk access... what is it on a CPC compaired to a Floppy Disk Drive ?
Are there some games that can/actually run from a HDD ?
Is it difficult to mod stuffs so they run from a HDD instead of Floppies ???
The Symbiface used to enable a HDD connection, but...well... What the point to use such big noisy and cranky shit these days while some non-mecanical stick can do quite well and fast enough I guess (with far less power-consuption).
Extra points if you can flash some ROM banks from such emulated HDD too.
(http://www.symbos.de/gfx/sf2/symbiface3.jpg)
How boring and noisy...
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_r9kRdupsocI/TKdtxEAOogI/AAAAAAAAJQs/2motfZ406e4/Opener%20USB%20flash%20drive%5B5%5D.jpg?imgmax=800)
Elegant, awesome and Bier friendly.
Also 4Gigas which is quite a lot for a CPC and my Liver too.
QuoteOf course it adds a little bit to the price for the cable / connectors etc. but it also make it possible for everyone to pick and choose exactly what they want for their "ultimate CPC".
I quite like the way the Arduino cards are designed so you can put some shileds on them to add extra functions.
If you don't want the extra "layers" on your sandwich, just let the empty holes.
If you want to upgrade, go for something looking like this :
(http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/data:image/jpeg;base64,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)(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTMbE65ZdsZfG1Nj6rBBfnqgcSgD5ro7vZc0sDkw_TT-3h3PGA5Ug)
yet perhaps a bit less miniaturised of course.
Well Compact Flash cards are smaller and less noisy than an old HDD and they use the same IDE interface, so you could replace the HDD on a SymbiFace with a Compact Flash. rpalmers IDE interface can do the same without all the extra SF2 stuff.
Bryce.
aren't they still a bit pricey , compaired to USB or MS/SD things ?
I have no Symbiface anyway. :D
I do have an arduino though, but suck deeply at coding and cabling it into a CPC/PLUS.
But as my ethernet shield also sport a Micro SD card reader, i guess it could be turned into a HDD emulator ?
Yes, they're more pricey, but still, you'll only need one to cover all your systems... not a real cost.
SD cards aren't that difficult to interface with, they have an SPI interface that your Arduino can also communicate with, the main work involved is creating FAT drivers to handle the data. USB is a completely different animal and would require you to create a USB Host - Not easily done.
Your main problem with the Arduino is that it was made to be the main part of the system, not an interface, so connecting the Arduino to the CPC would take just as much additional hardware as other interfaces MegaFlash, HxC etc already have. At that point you can save on size and price by getting rid of the Arduino.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 11:23, 20 March 12
Well Compact Flash cards are smaller and less noisy than an old HDD and they use the same IDE interface, so you could replace the HDD on a SymbiFace with a Compact Flash.
A bit off topic: but i just wanted to suggest that its better to use SD-2-IDE adapter with a SF (simply based on my troubles trying to get a CF version to work with SF2). The SD adapter being a bit more expensive (but also being a bit more advanced in all ways and including auto master/slave selecting etc) worked flawlessly. Anyways, the point Bryce made was that you can use adapters instead of a large noisy hdd (and you get the bonus of the SD is also easier to plug up to the pc for file transfers).
Anyways back on topic: If i recall right the SF2 was 140 euros and i think it scared off quite a few people. So there is the cost to worry about on "large projects" of cause. Id definately suggest a external or similar plug & play-friendly version as well (as the internal stuff again will scare off some people). As ive learned from the SF2 it can quickly become "cable-hell" and a adventure to use it .. so its good to think in "compact" terms (but all Bryce's great expansions so far has been compact and pretty cable free so no worries).
Another off topic: The SF2 has 1mb ram but does the clever thing that you can use it as either just 1mb ram or by setting a jumper you get 512kb of "rom" space and 512kb ram .
oh and id definately be interested in buying a MegaBryce-thingy if one gets available one day ;)
Quote from: Bryce on 10:47, 20 March 12
Theoretically it could. The 4MB ROM would be if you had all 252 sideways ROMs attached. Electronically speaking, no problem, but each ROM takes a little bit of RAM, so in practice it would never really work, the RAM would be immediately filled and you'd have no space for anything to run.
Even the 32 ROMs that the MegaFlash offers is borderline as far a RAM usage is concerned, depending on what ROMs you've installed (some need more RAM than others).
Bryce.
Well, if you only initialize the first 32 ROMs like with the MegaFlash, and use the others for a ROM disc (or what ever you want) it should be no problem.
BTW: The CPC-OS does support up to 252 ROMs, the hardware itself does support all 256 ROMs. However, the Plus is limited to 128 ROMs - if you use more, then the cartridge gets deactivated.
I actually have a 2.5 MB Flash ROM expansion in one of my 6128, and it works very well.
Quote from: Cholo on 21:00, 20 March 12
If i recall right the SF2 was 140 euros
It was 125 Euro including PSU and postage.
Quote from: Cholo on 21:00, 20 March 12
Another off topic: The SF2 has 1mb ram but does the clever thing that you can use it as either just 1mb ram or by setting a jumper you get 512kb of "rom" space and 512kb ram .
No, it provides 512 KB RAM (unbuffered) and 512 KB of ROM. (ROM is simulated by using S-RAM). But you can't switch them to something else.
The difference between RAM and ROM is just how it's mapped, otherwise the interface circuitry is pretty much identical, so it does make sense to put them on one board, but other devices share no common hardware, so it's really just two devices on one physical board. But my experience tells me it's still not the best solution: If you make an all singing and dancing card of course it's going to cost more and many people won't buy it because of this. Many people only want one or two functions from the device and aren't willing to pay that much extra for unused features. By keeping the devices separate, everyone can choose the configuration for themselves. It does make the individual devices slightly more expensive, but in the long run it is probably cheaper for everyone except the people who really did want everything. The people who bought the DigiBlaster v3 weren't the same people as the ones who bought the USB Mouse Adapter, nor the S-Video Adapter or even the MegaFlash. There is very little cross-over, perhaps 5 or 6 people who actually ordered every device, so the all singing and dancing device would be better for 6 people but more expensive or too expensive for 150+ people.
But that's just my opinion.
Bryce.
100% indeed, but anyway i would buy the All Dancing Singing device, i dont care about the higher cost, i would love to have such an device. its most useful to me and i am pretty sure there are at least 10 others who buy it.
Cheers
Tom
As far as I have followed ancient discussion of Dr. Zed and Prodatron both were keen of creating a device and software which shows that the cpc is still a usefull computer even nowadays and can compete with a modern PCs. Dr. Zed with it's full gadget hardware extension (RAM/ROM/MOUSE/IDE/RTC) and Prodatron with a fitting (Symb)OS - FAT IDE, mouse, multitasking, typical window enviroment, handy, 1 MB Ram etc.. (But lacks in applications because of less programmers). Make out of the CPC a modern PC?
I like the MegaFlash. Easy to handle and pretty realiable. Charming like the CPC.
(Doesn't mean that the Symbiface isn't good or not a cool All-Dancing-Singing device. But it is pretty too complex for me. I speak as a assembler aprentice. Advanced people might think different of course.)
Quote from: Pentagon on 21:42, 20 March 12
100% indeed, but anyway i would buy the All Dancing Singing device, i dont care about the higher cost, i would love to have such an device. its most useful to me and i am pretty sure there are at least 10 others who buy it.
Cheers
Tom
Yes, and one of them is me :) And maybe I even take two of them :o
Quote from: hal 6128 on 21:52, 20 March 12
As far as I have followed ancient discussion of Dr. Zed and Prodatron both were keen of creating a device and software which shows that the cpc is still a usefull computer even nowadays and can compete with a modern PCs. Dr. Zed with it's full gadget hardware extension (RAM/ROM/MOUSE/IDE/RTC) and Prodatron with a fitting (Symb)OS - FAT IDE, mouse, multitasking, typical window enviroment, handy, 1 MB Ram etc.. (But lacks in applications because of less programmers). Make out of the CPC a modern PC?
I like the MegaFlash. Easy to handle and pretty realiable. Charming like the CPC.
(Doesn't mean that the Symbiface isn't good or not a cool All-Dancing-Singing device. But it is pretty too complex for me. I speak as a assembler aprentice. Advanced people might think different of course.)
Pah! Urban legends! :laugh: Dr. Zed (I brought him actually to the CPC), Octoate, Tolkin and me worked together to create the CPC-IDE (most of the work was done by Dr. Zed of course). Later on - while we have been on the way to the CPC-IDE II - Prodatron joined the team and took all over with all his money. So instead of the CPC-IDE II there was the SF2. And Octoate, Tolkin and me have been kicked out.
.
So in the end, more of the SF2s could be built, or possibly more than a prototype of the SF3 right away?
What rights held by whom would encumber such efforts of anyone considering themselves "kicked out"?
Quote from: TFM/FS on 22:46, 20 March 12
Pah! Urban legends! :laugh: Dr. Zed (I brought him actually to the CPC), Octoate, Tolkin and me worked together to create the CPC-IDE (most of the work was done by Dr. Zed of course). Later on - while we have been on the way to the CPC-IDE II - Prodatron joined the team and took all over with all his money. So instead of the CPC-IDE II there was the SF2. And Octoate, Tolkin and me have been kicked out.
...this is quite an emotional point of view. ;) What about the technical point of view of the SF2?
Quote from: TFM/FS on 22:43, 20 March 12
Yes, and one of them is me :) And maybe I even take two of them :o
I second you guys, but I'll be more than happy having just one ;)
Did I mention I want two?
Of course we're talking about a vague idea now and we haven't discussed a spec, maybe split the thread and go from there? And, in the meantime, start sucking up to Bryce? :D
If it's really just a collection of existing devices, then it's not all that much work - Patch all the schematics together, remove the excess connectors / capacitors and make a layout. The biggest problem will be interfacing: Where should it connect to if it's internal that will fit on all CPCs?
Bryce.
QuoteYes, and one of them is me (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/../../../Smileys/SoLoSMiLeYS1/smiley.gif) And maybe I even take two of them (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/../../../Smileys/SoLoSMiLeYS1/shocked.gif)
Great first two units sold ;-)
QuoteDid I mention I want two?
YAY, four units sold !!! ;D
And i will take two too .....
6 Units sold
Bryce? ;-)
BTW: If we add the shematics of the CPC-IDE (Symbiface 1) to that all singing and dance card, then it will support IDE too.
So we have IDE, 512Kb, Megaflash, Lower Rom Card all in one Board. And yes that could be external Device if its tiny and small ;-)
It would work with FOS, BDOS and SymbOS and Amsdos ... sounds good?
Cheers
Tom
Throw 4Mb ram and usb/PS2 mouse support in, and it will, be better to take the chips from the CPC and use them in the new interface... ;)
Hey! That would be nice indeed! We can call it the CPC++ ;D
As I mentioned, the problem is finding where to connect the interface. The CPU, Gate Array and Disk connection are the only places to tap signals without having to solder:
The CPU: Offers almost all connects needed, but is missing: /BusReset, /ROMEN, ROMDIS, /RAMRD and RAMDIS.
The Gate Array: Offers /ROMEN and /RAMRD
The Disk interface: Offers /ROMEN and ROMDIS
So even if it was connected to the CPU socket, Gate Array socket and the Disk Drive connector, we are still missing /BusReset and RAMDIS which would have to be soldered directly onto the PCB somewhere. This is not the ideal situation and the interface would end up looking like an even bigger mess than the Vortex RAM Expansion: http://www.cpcwiki.eu/imgs/c/cd/Sp512top.jpg (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/imgs/c/cd/Sp512top.jpg)
This doesn't even take into account that the MegaFlash Read/Write switch, Reset button, all the jumpers (ROM 0 / ROM 7 etc) and a few LEDs would need to be wired to somewhere external too! If AMX Mouse functionality is added then we also need to tap the 9 signals from the Joystick Port! It would be spagetti!
Bryce.
Quote from: phi2x on 23:02, 20 March 12
So there are CPC folks richer than you?
I thought you were the richest guy here with your $4000 laptop :o
Hahaha! Guess 90% are richer :P I saved all money for a couple of month to get that laptop, because I need it for work. And I still have it since 3 years - and probably for many more years ;D :o
Quote from: Pentagon on 10:57, 21 March 12
BTW: If we add the shematics of the CPC-IDE (Symbiface 1) to that all singing and dance card, then it will support IDE too.
So we have IDE, 512Kb, Megaflash, Lower Rom Card all in one Board. And yes that could be external Device if its tiny and small ;-)
It would work with FOS, BDOS and SymbOS and Amsdos ... sounds good?
And with BDOS (even if I don't know much about it) there would be a DOS that allows to use the mass storage device under the native CPC-OS, so probably a lot of games would work. And loading stuff more quick is never bad.
I don't know if Dr. Zed would allow us to use the CPC-IDE core, but asking is free. I can do that in case Bryce considers that as an good idea. However the CPC-IDE is based on the IDE interface of Tilman Reh (the guy who made the RT280 computer based on a Z280 CPU). I know him since the early 90ies, he's a nice guy. However the original design was done for 8 bit I/O. So one main change in the CPC-IDE was to expand I/O to 16 bits, which is a prerequisite for usability with the CPC.
In addition the CPC-IDE core in the SF2 is debugged and streamlined. So it would be better to use the VHDL code of the SF2 IDE part.
Short note about the SF3: Yes it does exist and it does work. However Dr. Zed has some other hobbies too. It does not look like that the SF3 will get in production soon or at all.
Back to topic...
@Bryce: Even if you decide to add 4 MB, mouse, x-whatever-IDE or so... I do support you with the idea of keeping it external (abouve reasons).
Anything else we can handle in the thread "we recreate the CPC from scratch including all expansions" or so...
QuoteI don't know if Dr. Zed would allow us to use the CPC-IDE core, but asking is free. I can do that in case Bryce considers that as an good idea. However the CPC-IDE is based on the IDE interface of Tilman Reh (the guy who made the RT280 computer based on a Z280 CPU). I know him since the early 90ies, he's a nice guy. However the original design was done for 8 bit I/O. So one main change in the CPC-IDE was to expand I/O to 16 bits, which is a prerequisite for usability with the CPC.
In addition the CPC-IDE core in the SF2 is debugged and streamlined. So it would be better to use the VHDL code of the SF2 IDE part.
Yes you are totally right its based on Tilmann Reh IDE and this shematics is open source and you can find it at google. The sinclair controller is based on that design too.
Well the CPC-IDE Batch 1 was sponsored by TFM, Octoate and Tolkin and the open source Shematics was ported to VHDL by Dr.ZED and some timings added / changed.
My theory is if you three persons (TFM, Octo and Tolkin) sponsored that first batch of controller then you are holding the rights for the authorisation to rebuild too. You paid it and its yours.
If you TFM give me the authoriziation to flash some new XLINX from "your" CPC-IDE i can give them to bryce. I also did a bit changed Layout of that controller and i reverse engineered it totally. So i am able to build them and they work fine.
If i would give Bryce all documents of that stuff he could build it into the new "All Singing Dancing Card" (I love that name for the expansion).
The preferences to do that is, that you TFM and the other give me the "okay" for that. Then we can build something really better then a Symbiface and its compatible to all systems.
We dont need a RTC chip inside and i am sure we dont need a PS/2 mouse port. But if we can put your IDE Controller to Bryce megaflash / Lower Rom / Memory exp. then everybody is able to get the chance for a working Super Expansion including IDE.
Please think about that and give me a decision when you talked to your other three mates. And dont forget that stuff is open source and you paid for that first production. So it should not be a problem to give the data to bryce if i get your okay.
Thanks a lot TFM
Tom
BTW: That would be the most important expansion project in the history of CPC. No more Agressions between anybody, just friendship and a really good working project of all kind of devices joined at one exp. card.
It would be awesome, cause every OS Running with that. FOS, SymbOS, BDOS and Amsdos will work and every user can choose what he need to work for. Its really possible to do, if you can give me that authorization to do.
Cheers
Tom
You can have all "okays" and "authorisations" from my side. However I must confess I didn't directly sponsor the 1st batch, that was Octoate and Tolkin, I assume they have no problem with reproduction. I'll email them.
Quote from: TFM/FS on 21:05, 20 March 12
Well, if you ... use the others for a ROM disc (or what ever you want) it should be no problem.
Is there software for this ROM disc? It'd be very useful for my current project... :)
Quote from: ralferoo on 18:09, 21 March 12
Is there software for this ROM disc? It'd be very useful for my current project... :)
Well, not now, but I did plan to create some. However the biggest question is how to implement commands like LOAD and SAVE. I could do it very quick if I would use RSX commands. But a nice implementation like they did it in RDOS takes a lot more time.
However, are we talking about current hardware, or future projects?
QuoteYou can have all "okays" and "authorisations" from my side. However I must confess I didn't directly sponsor the 1st batch, that was Octoate and Tolkin, I assume they have no problem with reproduction. I'll email them.
Thanks a lot, that help much. Please give me reply if you know more of the others opinion and authorisation. I sent you a private email in german language too.
Cheers
Tom
@Pentagon: "All-singing and dancing" is the English equivalent of the German word "Eierlegendewollmilchsau" :)
Bryce.
Quote from: TFM/FS on 18:25, 21 March 12
Well, not now, but I did plan to create some. However the biggest question is how to implement commands like LOAD and SAVE. I could do it very quick if I would use RSX commands. But a nice implementation like they did it in RDOS takes a lot more time.
However, are we talking about current hardware, or future projects?
Not to worry. I'm working on my FPGA project where I've got a 2MB flash ROM accessed serially. I reckon I can probably rework things so the SPI happens quickly enough that I can get it doing execute-in-place, at which point I could feasibly implement 128 ROMs... :O
The current version just accesses the flash chip via I/O ports and copies the ROM into RAM and I've got a 1/4-finished filesystem for dealing with other files. However, it sounded like there was an existing project to make a ROM disc, in which case it'd make sense to ditch my work-in-progress and use that. If there's nothing that already exists, I'll just continue work on my current system... :)
Quote from: TFM/FS on 18:25, 21 March 12
However the biggest question is how to implement commands like LOAD and SAVE. I could do it very quick if I would use RSX commands. But a nice implementation like they did it in RDOS takes a lot more time.
For what it's worth, I'm basing my filesystem on AMSDOS. It uses almost identical code to patch the CAS_* firmware blocks so it reads data from the flash chip if flash is detected, and there's some logic to decide whether the handle |TAPE or delegate to AMSDOS.
Quote from: Bryce on 18:37, 21 March 12
@Pentagon: "All-singing and dancing" is the English equivalent of the German word "Eierlegendewollmilchsau" :)
Bryce.
That's right, in the south of Bavaria that animal is called "Woiperdinger". Hard to catch, bad very delicious. However, the GigaBryce card will be better anyway ;-)
Quote@Pentagon: "All-singing and dancing" is the English equivalent of the German word "Eierlegendewollmilchsau"
Yes and that megasuperduperexpansion card should be official named to "CPC-All-Singing and Dancing Expansion" ... i love it ;-)
Cheers
Tom
Quote from: Pentagon on 20:05, 21 March 12
Yes and that megasuperduperexpansion card should be official named to "CPC-All-Singing and Dancing Expansion" ... i love it ;-)
Cheers
Tom
Alright, going to code a Dance-Dance-Revolution software for the CPC. So the "CPC-All-Singing and Dancing Expansion" just needs a plug for one of these dancing mats. Well, guess Joy port will do it too.
Quote from: TFM/FS on 19:47, 21 March 12That's right, in the south of Bavaria that animal is called "Woiperdinger". Hard to catch, bad very delicious.
A jackalope in English AFAIK, but that name's taken by Ubuntu (Jaunty).
Got a nice-idea-input from Tolkin: When deciding to integrate a IDE part, then it makes sense to provide a slot for a SD card (instead of the parallel ATA hard-disc interface). Makes it smaller and no cable-salad or mafia-pie
The difference between an SD interface and an IDE interface is huge! It's a completely different device, so if the plan goes to SD, then forget the old stuff and design a new interface from scratch.
Bryce.
I am sorry, i dont have the knowledge to build an SD Interface from scratch. I can offer the complete data of the CPC-IDE aka Symbiface 1 and would be compatible to the Symbiface, FOS, BDOS and Amsdos.
If all people here prefer a SD Card System, then i cant help with that and we need new ideas. The advantage of the harddisc system is, its working and its relieable working without any faults or issues.
TFM generously asked Octoate and Tolkin for an official authorisation to do that and to use the old data and they agreed. Kudos and a huge "THANK YOU" for that !!!
Well we would be able to build a new card, if you like it then i could give Bryce that data. But as i said, i cant do a SD Device cause my knowledge about any kind of Memory Cards is = 0
Thanks a lot to TFM, Tolkin and Octoate thats really generous and a possible chance to build a new device compatible to any old and before done devices.
Cheers
Tom / Pentagon
About the SD card: Interfaces do already exist we can use them.
(DE: Anstatt der ganzen Stecker und Adapter könnte man das direkt auf die Giga-Karte machen. IMHO sollte es nicht so schlimm sein, den ganzen Kram gibts bei Reichelt.de (Adapter von Parallel-ATA auf SD-Karte z.B.) Vielleicht geht es auch nicht. Nur mal die Idee in den Raum geworfen).
Really no need to thank me! (DE: Wo ist der Rot-werd Smily wenn man ihn braucht...). My pleasure to contribute. And you created the thread ;) So all Thanks to you :) At the end we all Thank Bryce :)
Well, I'm not sure about the RTC. Personally I would think it's a "good to have", but if people merely don't need it - ok too.
This seems to evolve into something really beautiful!
Quote"All-singing and dancing"
In french we would say : "qui fait aussi le café" ("who also prepare your coffee").
Quote"CPC-All-Singing and Dancing Expansion"
CPC-A-SADE... what a Sadic stuff.
joke appart...
Are you all planning to do a production of a brand new extension for CPC/PLUS ?
Then what are the specs and Hardware content aimed at ???
Bryce recently produced some good Mouse adapters, and alos his Flashboard (ROMbox) was still available recently.
I managed to get my hands on one thx to the "FutureOS fundation for broke Hobbyists in dire strait" programm, which enabled me to obtain such financial help through some artistic contribution in return. :D
Anyway, what would be the point of this new batch/serie of Hardware then ?
Personally, i would be mostly interested in the HDD emulation through SD card or equivalent... also some RAM expansion would be nice... and perhaps even a real time clock after all.
And some Ethernet/internet solution too.
good point would be to design many mini cards with one function each, and a bigger one rack (HUB) which would enable to put all those on one stack.
Of course one could use only one of those (or pone pair, with only a proper cable, but if you want more functions, then just get the rack too as it would ease the utilisation and power supply management too perhaps.
Any news here? Is there still interrestin a big expanson card?
Does anybody of you get one of the new SF2 batch?
I asked a while back and a grand total of two people said they would buy one. So in short: No.
And no, I didn't order an SF2 either.
Bryce.
512KB? Count me in!
:D
A SF2 new batch was realy done?
I don't see anything on CPCWiki, and I don't speak german.
I tryed to follow the discution here w/o success :
http://forum.classic-computing.de/index.php?page=Thread&postID=34863#post34863
I'm sure that most peoples buying a MegaFlash bought after the LowerROM and finally will buy a RAM Board.
Sure that it's cheaper and more "clean" to get only one board doing all those stuff. (less ribbon cables too)
Quote from: Gryzor on 16:25, 20 November 12
512KB? Count me in!
:D
And me ;)
I would personally love an all in one board.
4MB? count me in! 8)
Quote from: TotO on 10:35, 21 November 12
A SF2 new batch was realy done?
I don't see anything on CPCWiki, and I don't speak german.
I tryed to follow the discution here w/o success :
http://forum.classic-computing.de/index.php?page=Thread&postID=34863#post34863
I'm sure that most peoples buying a MegaFlash bought after the LowerROM and finally will buy a RAM Board.
Sure that it's cheaper and more "clean" to get only one board doing all those stuff. (less ribbon cables too)
The new SF2 batch seems to have been quite a small closed affair. They didn't really advertise it and even some of the German forum members seemed to have missed it.
Regarding the all in one device. I've said this before, but here we go again. The reason why I keep things seperate:
Many people bought the MegaFlash, many people bought the S-Video device, some people bought an AMX Mouse Adapter and some bought a LowerROM Board. BUT (very big BUT) they weren't the same people. Some wanted a LowerROM board, but they don't own a MegaFlash, some bought a Mouse adapter, but they didn't buy anything else. Some bought a MegaFlash and Mouse Adapter, but they have no interest in having S-video or a LowerROM.
So we have the choice. Do we make one big device that forces you to buy and pay for everything whether you want it or not? Or do we keep them modular and everyone can decide what they want or what their budget will allow.
The common denominator: How many people bought everything = About 5. So if I had built them as an all-in-one then I would have sold maybe 10 if I even that. And 5 of those ten paid for something on the board that they didn't want.
An all-in-one device wouldn't necessarily be cheaper, these devices don't really share a lot of components other than the connection to the CPC. And if the batch count was only 10, then they definitely would cost more than the sum of the individual devices.
Bryce.
OK ;)
Ah bummer, I thought I put my name down for a SFII on that link but not heard anything. Oh well :'(
You did and your order seems to have been confirmed too. The last post in the thread (on the 21st of Oct) is from another buyer inquiring when the last devices will be sent out, so I wouldn't loose faith just yet. The first devices seem to have been handed out personally at their last meeting.
Bryce.
I don't though that will be so confidential. (and no news on the official website)
I said that I wanted one on the CPCWiki page, but sure it look to be not the good place...
The goal was to support it form the Firwmare to be used for all CPC starting from the BASIC (mouse, hdd, ...) and not only limited to SymbOS.
May be in the next 10 years for a 3rd batch... :-\
Quote from: Bryce on 16:07, 21 November 12
You did and your order seems to have been confirmed too. The last post in the thread (on the 21st of Oct) is from another buyer inquiring when the last devices will be sent out, so I wouldn't loose faith just yet. The first devices seem to have been handed out personally at their last meeting.
Bryce.
Ah cool, fingers crossed :D Looking at another 6128 on Irish ebay with monitor so I can have one with your hardware and another with the SF2 ;D
Quote from: steve on 12:10, 21 November 12
4MB? count me in! 8)
4 MB!?! Count me in too! ;D
Quote from: Bryce on 16:07, 21 November 12
You did and your order seems to have been confirmed too. The last post in the thread (on the 21st of Oct) is from another buyer inquiring when the last devices will be sent out, so I wouldn't loose faith just yet. The first devices seem to have been handed out personally at their last meeting.
I bug them since weeks to tell me the PayPal or whatever, but I get completely ignored. However I got a PM from Prodatron before, that I will get a SF2 (which I need as software developer). But slowly I lost my faith.
About the all-in-one and everything-separated philisophies: They do not exclude each other. Why not having:
1. a bunch of serarated cards for everything.
2. one big card, which contains everything.
Both can be realized!
Yes, but they both cost time and money to develop. I will only make something if it covers its costs, I'm not a charity.
Bryce.
You are not alone, just do what you want.
But if others decide to do other projects, then please let em do it ;)
All my schematics and even the layouts are open source. Anyone who wants to use them is free to do so.
Bryce.
Yup, I didn't understand the comment. Bryce is kind enough to do everything pretty much open-sourced, and I don't recall him ever telling someone not to do something...
Quote from: Bryce on 22:09, 21 November 12
All my schematics and even the layouts are open source. Anyone who wants to use them is free to do so.
Bryce.
Yes, right, and that's appreciated. I've taken a look at it form a more general POV. It depends if someone tells "I think it's best to handle it this and this way" or if somebody tells "this and this has to be handled that way". The latter one makes things general.
As told, everyone can do what he wants, but other ideas should also be considered. Because ideas are NOT excluding each other. That's where I'm driving at :) And now Happy Thanksgiving :)
Now since the SF2 is being sold again this thread becomes a bit obsolete.
However it may give rise to another idea: A card which contains usefull expansions, which are not part of the SF2.
What could that possibly be?
- LowerROM
- RS232 / RS442 network
- Ethernet
- USB Port (for storage devices, Flashdrive f.e.)
- Interrupt generator
- A/D converter
- Coprocessor (math... f.e.)
and what else do we need?
Quote from: TFM/FS on 20:42, 08 January 13
Now since the SF2 is being sold again this thread becomes a bit obsolete.
How do you work that one out? The SF2 has 512K RAM, but it doesn't have Flash or LowerROM.
I still don't intend building it or the list of other devices you've mentioned (ok, maybe one or two of them are on my list), but I still wouldn't make it as one big device.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 20:54, 08 January 13
How do you work that one out? The SF2 has 512K RAM, but it doesn't have Flash or LowerROM.
Please read my entire post.
Quote from: Bryce on 20:54, 08 January 13
I still don't intend building it or the list of other devices you've mentioned (ok, maybe one or two of them are on my list), but I still wouldn't make it as one big device.
Bryce.
You must not build it. Anybody can do. This is an open thread. And it's open for discussion.
Quote from: TFM/FS on 20:58, 08 January 13
Please read my entire post.
I did. Still can't spot what I might have missed.
Bryce.
Then please Read again..... I mentioned the LowerROM. And if an expanson uses Flash or S-RAM is secondary.
The point here is different. When I read the first post then I have the impression that Pentagon did want to invent a kind of SF2-replacement, since the SF2 was sold out in these days. Now the SF2 is available again, so we don't need a replacement.
Quote from: TFM/FS on 21:04, 08 January 13
And if an expanson uses Flash or S-RAM is secondary.
That's where I would disagree. The SF2 might offer virtual ROMs, but the difference between battery backed SRAM and Flash is huge. Not only for the size of the device, but also for it's usability, the life of the device and even the functions possible. So I don't see them as the same at all.
Bryce.
Well, a Flash can keep data longer as an S-RAM with battery. But and S-RAM can be written more often than Flash.
One problem could be: How hard is it to change the battery? And the other hand: How long doese data resite in Flash?
There is something else: The Pseude-ROM of the SF2 can be read and written without the need of using a physical switch. You can abuse it as additional 512 KB RAM. And this can be done with full writing speed. This was a ROM disc could be quite easy to handle.
The type of Flash I used on the MegaFlash can be written to up to at least 10,000 times per slot. That's equivalent to changing at least 2 ROM slots per day for approx. 14 years. Highly unlikely that even a power user would achieve that. And even if he did, he just pulls it out of the socket and replaces it for less than €10, without needing to know which end of a soldering iron gets hot.
The data retention is rated at 10 years. But in reality they manage a lot more. Should also be long enough for most CPC users.
SRAM certainly has advantages, but I think the need for a battery outways these. The MegaFlash would be possible without a switch. I think I even built one during the development stage. I chose to have a switch.
Battery swapping isn't a really hard soldering job, but the footprint of the components have changed over the years, so the old version is difficult to find. There's also the risk that it leaks and destroys the board completely. Ask any Amiga Fan.
Bryce.
Well, the Winbond is already hard to get, but sure it will not be used up in a regular way. However if you use it as ROM disc, then that number of cycles may be used up quit.
An accumulator in an socket would also not be a bad idea.
The Winbond Flash I used is an EOL part, but they made millions of them. It's still very easy to find (almost every supplier I use stocks it) and should be for the next few years. There are also a few alternative manufacturers of this part.
Bryce.
A Flash IC can't be used as RAM replacement.
If a program write it 50 times per second for processing data to display, it's not 14 years of life but only 3mn.
But, when you got huge ROM memory, you don't need so much RAM.
The lower ROM replacement is a great feature.
CTC and SIO too.
Others are useless in my point of view, as serial connexion can be handled through a BT module to share network data with PC and phones.
Quote from: TotO on 11:37, 09 January 13
A Flash IC can't be used as RAM replacement.
That's what I meant, when I said that SRAM has advantages over Flash.
Of course the MegaFlash was never meant to be used as RAM. It's a ROMBoard :)
Bryce.
I am now confused as to the point of this thread.
Quote from: Gryzor on 11:54, 09 January 13
I am now confused as to the point of this thread.
The answer was done.
Yes, it's possible to build a Megaflash including the Lower ROM, but charts give 60% of users interested about an external module only.
Free to others to do it. :)
Quote from: TotOQuote from: Gryzor on Today at 12:54:22I am now confused as to the point of this thread.The answer was done.
Yup, hence the "now" in my quote ;)
Quote from: TFM/FS on 20:42, 08 January 13and what else do we need?
A blitter ! ok i stop dreaming ;)
Wot, no 4MB?
Quote from: Gryzor on 13:17, 09 January 13
Wot, no 4MB?
The eternal question... May be, doing 128K stuff before?
4MB need extra decoding and will not be used and no common existing storage device allow to fill it with data.
Well if I super glue the boards together I am already there with the 512k, Megaflash and LowerROM :)
[attach=2]
Quote from: Gryzor on 13:17, 09 January 13
Wot, no 4MB?
:laugh:
Quote from: TotOQuote from: Gryzor on Today at 14:17:25Wot, no 4MB?The eternal question... May be, doing 128K stuff before?
4MB need extra decoding and will not be used and no common existing storage device allow to fill it with data.
Was only kidding ;)
Quote from: TotO on 13:46, 09 January 13
The eternal question... May be, doing 128K stuff before?
4MB need extra decoding and will not be used and no common existing storage device allow to fill it with data.
Well, IMHO, a 704 KB disc (Vortex format for example) can hold compressed data. Uncompressed this can easily be 4 MB (especially when dealing with GFX). And then there is the new batch of SF2's and the CPCSD.