SF2 Maus - Symbiface 2 Mouseinterface

[Tolkin]

Hy, we are celebrating the Mitwintermeeting in Kirchen.
Dr. Zed, the creator of the Symbiface 2 was begged on our knees, and after hours of praying, he build us a standalone Interface of the PS2-Mouse part of the SF2.
Now we want to give it to the CPC Community.

It is compatible with all software which is compatible with the original SF2-Interface.
Every PS2 Compatible Mouse Devices (like trackballs, spinners) can be used. When using a USB Mouse, you need a passive adapter usb to ps2.
(Patched Arkanoid from Nilquader for example, or SymbOS or FutureOS).

Everything needed is in the Zip-File.
So, you can build your own.

For today there are only a few made, and given to people on the meeting. No others are planned.
But its up to you to build your own or make a batch of devices for others.

Thank you very much Dr. Zed!

Greetings to all on the meeting and the other CPC-Users. 

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[Prodatron]

We should put it into the Wiki itself as well!

[Pollo]

That's nice to see as the SF2 mouse is the superior option technically on CPC.

What is missing though is game support: Operation Wolf, Batty, Carrier Command, etc... all support the Multiplay mouse, not the SF2 mouse

See: https://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=database&lemot=hardware_multiplay_mouse

[retro space]

It makes me wonder, can the Amiga mouse work through the regular joystick port?

[Prodatron]

It makes me wonder, can the Amiga mouse work through the regular joystick port?

Unfortunately the CPC has no 5V on the Joystick port, that's the reason why we never had a standard proportional mouse for the CPC, like they had on a lot of the other machiness.

[GUNHED]

It makes me wonder, can the Amiga mouse work through the regular joystick port?

Yes, it can! You need to provide 5 Volts and then you just need to decode the provided data.

Why do I know that? Well, I bought an Amiga mouse (not the Tank one) for the MultiPlay, but it didn't work with it. So I plugged it into my Desktop CPC6576 which has 5 Volt at the joystick port (if you like) and there it worked.

[retro space]

Would the CPC 464 go bonkers if you put 5V on its joystick ports?

It makes me wonder, can the Amiga mouse work through the regular joystick port?

Yes, it can! You need to provide 5 Volts and then you just need to decode the provided data.

Why do I know that? Well, I bought an Amiga mouse (not the Tank one) for the MultiPlay, but it didn't work with it. So I plugged it into my Desktop CPC6576 which has 5 Volt at the joystick port (if you like) and there it worked.

[eto]

which has 5 Volt at the joystick port

And this is obviously not a regular joystick port on the CPC.

It makes me wonder, can the Amiga mouse work through the regular joystick port?

You can connect the Amiga or Atari ST mouse to the CPC with the help of an adapter. The adapter provides 5V and makes sure the signals are compatible with the CPC .

I would not recommend doing it as you still need very specific software support for it.

[eto]

PS2-Mouse part of the SF2

Does mouse part of the SF2 have advantages over the Albireo USB solution? 

With the Albireo logic in mind connecting a USB mouse only requires a bit of address decoding logic and a 3€ CH376 board.

[Pollo]

+1. There's something to be said about the extensions from Pulkotronics. They are all very well thought out, affordable and neat.

Again, like for the SF2, the problem with the Albireo mouse is game support.

[Prodatron]

PS2-Mouse part of the SF2

Does mouse part of the SF2 have advantages over the Albireo USB solution?

With the Albireo logic in mind connecting a USB mouse only requires a bit of address decoding logic and a 3€ CH376 board.

The SF2 mouse is easier to handle on software side (the same like for the SF2 RTC, which is much easier to handle compared to the Dobbertin RTC).

Especially for the mouse this has the advantage, that there is a higher chance to be able to patch old games. If the required mouse code is too big, it MAY not fit in the remaining free memory of old games.

Hardware side: The SF2 mouse requires...
- 1 x ATtiny-2313-20PU
- 1 x 74HCT574N
- 1 x GAL22V10

I have no idea how this is compared to the Albireo with its CH376 regarding price and complexity.

[eto]

Especially for the mouse this has the advantage, that there is a higher chance to be able to patch old games.

Ah okay, this definitely is a huge advantage. 

- 1 x ATtiny-2313-20PU
- 1 x 74HCT574N
- 1 x GAL22V10

I have no idea how this is compared to the Albireo with its CH376 regarding price and complexity.

If it's just about the USB port it's a bit less than the SF2 logic. You can use a cheap CH376 USB Module and just need a bit of address decoding logic (e.g. 2x 74HCT688 for full address decoding) to get an Albireo compatible USB port on the CPC. 

[eto]

Is there a list of known working mice? Or are all PS/2 mice supported? Are there any working mice that are still available or do I need to get a used one? 

[Tolkin]

Hy, every mouse will work if it supports the PS2-Mode. Like the MS on the Picture. There are many OEM Mice on the market like the Cherry which will work. If you buy a Mouse with an included Usb to PS2 adapter in the package (included in the original Box) it should work. (Cherry wheel Mouse, microsoft basic business mousr, many from perrix....)

The best about the interface, it is supported by existing software. The needed code is slim.
For example a patched arkanoid exist and plays perfect!

With the ps2 Controller you can use arcade spinners (for breackout games) and trackballs (marblemadness style or misslecommand style games) which are easy to get at internetshops who sell ,,arcade-style" hardware for home arcade projects.
There are wheels for homearcade with ps2 support, or wheels you can put on the spinner to build/convert them to racing wheels.
Bye Tolkin

[Pollo]

Especially for the mouse this has the advantage, that there is a higher chance to be able to patch old games. If the required mouse code is too big, it MAY not fit in the remaining free memory of old games.

Now that I think about it, that would be a great use of the RAM in the NOVA card: adding Albireo USB mouse support to old games without having to make space in conventional RAM.

[GUNHED]

which has 5 Volt at the joystick port

And this is obviously not a regular joystick port on the CPC.

No, it's a simple adapter with two plugs and 5V supply. Just two connectors and wiring. This way every Amiga or ST mouse works. The hardware can't be more easy, simple and efficient.

This solution was presented at the Mittwinter meeting last weekend and worked well. My girlfriend there worked with G-Paint and produced a nice picture of a cat. So, if you don't believe me just ask the participants.  Or wait for the meeting report with pictures (in FutureView VI). 

[GUNHED]

Especially for the mouse this has the advantage, that there is a higher chance to be able to patch old games. If the required mouse code is too big, it MAY not fit in the remaining free memory of old games.

Now that I think about it, that would be a great use of the RAM in the NOVA card: adding Albireo USB mouse support to old games without having to make space in conventional RAM.

That's a good idea. The Nova can serve as transparent "RAM extension" for everything (game, app, etc.) which uses all the RAM already. And it's banking is more flexible compared to just bank in some 16 KB expansion RAM block.

Now I just wish that more people will buy the Nova, so it makes more sense to do software for it.