Poll
Question:
Would you be interested in buying a RTC board?
Option 1: Yes. Definitely, as a complete standalone.
votes: 16
Option 2: Only if usable in parallel with the X-MEM.
votes: 23
Option 3: Only as a module to plug on my physical ROMBOARD I already have.
votes: 3
Option 4: No thanks.
votes: 11
Hi there!
Like I said on a previous topic, I started a reproduction of the Dobbertin SmartWatch. If you don't know it see here: Dobbertin Smart Watch - CPCWiki (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Dobbertin_Smart_Watch)
This is a board plugged on the expansion port, which brings RTC to the CPC. You can easily retrieve day, month, year, time from Basic, and use it as the RTC for FutureOS!
The prototype board working:
(http://thumbnails111.imagebam.com/39266/234609392658023.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/234609392658023)
Original boot screen:
(http://thumbnails110.imagebam.com/38887/adea07388866002.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/adea07388866002)
5 lines of basic can display time and date in real time:
(http://thumbnails109.imagebam.com/38887/ed98a1388865964.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/ed98a1388865964)
FutureOS Desk:
(http://thumbnails109.imagebam.com/39266/1da450392657842.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/1da450392657842)
The final production board:
(http://thumbnails108.imagebam.com/41707/3abdfd417068853.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/3abdfd417068853)
(http://thumbnails105.imagebam.com/41707/237740417068803.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/237740417068803)
The board is made of the RTC module itself which has a backup lithium battery, and an EPROM containing the original SmartWatch ROM which provides RSX access to the watch from basic (TIME ROM+ (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/imgs/c/c4/TIMEROM%2B.ROM)).
There are 2 ways of using this board, selected by jumpers.
First as a standalone.
The TIME ROM+ and RTC module are both located at position 2, allowing Parados in position 6 and being usable on a 464 as is. The whole board is usable as a standalone on any CPC 464-6128- + range.
Second in parallel with a MegaFlash or X-MEM, as the board is MX4 format compatible.
In this case the onboard EPROM is no longer used, you need to populate one slot of your X-MEM with a provided patched TIMEROM version and select a few jumpers. Otherwise if using FutureOS you don't need the TIMEROM at all.
A 20 pieces batch with "pro" PCB is planned, first come, first serve.
Q&A
Q: What will be the price?
A: Price INCLUDING TRACKED SHIPPING is 33.90e (36.90e) within France (Europe) for the first board. Each additional board is 30e.
Q: Is it MX4 compatible?
A: Yes it fully complies to IEC-MX4 standard :D !
Q: Is it compatible with other expansions?
A: MegaFlash: yes. X-MEM: yes. MFII: yes. The address is fully decoded so as long as other expansions do the same it should be fine.
Q: Is it FutureOS compatible?
A: Yes. Thank you TFM.
Q: Is it 6128+ compatible?
A: Yes I tested it with a 6128 and a 6128+.
Q: What is the battery life?
A: I calculated >10 years, anyway the battery is a standard 12mm lithium button cell, user replaceable for cheap.
Q: Does it come with an edge connector?
A: No, I have no time to make them. It comes with a male 50pin header like the Megaflash for example or any MX4 card. You can use your MX4 or Megaflash edge connector to 50pin female to run the RTC as a standalone. Connecting to the passthrough of the MX4 is also possible however you'll have to provide your own 50pin female-female cable.
Q: Is the software complete?
A: Yes, since I made the above screenshots I corrected the Y2K bug and translated the days and some text to english and french. I'm also making a small user manual since no information is available ATM on the Wiki.
Q: Why is this better than other RTC solutions on the CPC?
A: It's not. It provides compatibility with existing software like TIME ROM+, FutureOS. You can replace the battery easily. It brings the good old feeling of old electronic stuff which you can actually understand ;D . If you don't like it, then don't buy it I'm not making money here anyway.
Q: I would like to have one, but in a shiny box and with a 2 year warranty?
A: ...
Included in this post is a RAR file containing the User Manual, along with the English and French ROM files.
That's pretty cool! I would take one!
Now I have to update the FutureOS installation for being able to comfortable change the ROM number of the SmartWatch. :)
EDIT: I would post a screenshot with the !BIGWATCH command too. :laugh:
8)
One single question :
Is this a ROM extension ?
If so, I suspect it will not work with either the XMEM (an maybe the SymbifaceII) which populate the whole ROM range from 0 to 31, even if the ROM slot is not active.
Actually, a second question :
The slot connectors on the MX4 are female, while the passtrough and cable connector are male.
You say that one can use
- either the cable provided with the MX4 or Megaflash -> your card connector should be male.
- or use the passthrough connector on the MX4 -> your card connector should be female.
So : is the card connector male or female ???
Quote from: gerald on 20:56, 10 February 15
You say that one can use
- either the cable provided with the MX4 or Megaflash -> your card connector should be male.
Right, look at picture. Card is male.Quote from: gerald on 20:56, 10 February 15
- or use the passthrough connector on the MX4 -> your card connector should be female.
You need a cable with two female connectors for the pass through connector.
When using the great ROM-RAM-Box, then you can put the RTC directly in the provided single EPROM socket, as I did with the original RTC from Dobbertin back the day. :)
I can test the board with the X-MEM for compatibility as soon as I got one unit of both of them. 8)
And who cares about the SF2? It already got an RTC. :laugh:
Quote from: TFM on 21:50, 10 February 15
Right, look at picture. Card is male.
Look at the picture, this is the prototype, not the final product ;)
Now, why the question :
The wording is misleading as it says you either use the cable provided with the MX4 OR connect it to the passthrough connector. Each solution requires a different connector.
It is not mentioned that you can plug it in one MX4 slot.
It is not mentioned that you need a cable to plug it on the passthrough.
*English* is the compromise ;-) Not what sounds the best or what we could speak the best. :laugh:
Hi!
I just updated the FAQ in the first post.
@Gerald
Yes this is basically a single fixed position romboard. Regarding X-MEM compatibility I'm waiting for the MX4 to show up to run tests (I do have the X-MEM and Megaflash). I recognize this would be a huge problem. I checked the MegaROM schematic and yes it would need to be hacked to allow the RTC module to run in parallel.
What ROM position does it occupy?
Bryce.
Position 5.
Definitely paralleling this with the MegaFlash or MegaROM will cause bus contention. A jumper would be needed to disable the specific ROM location.
Hmm, 5 isn't easy to disable without a lot of logic.
Bryce.
Well I could change that of course but anyway the MegaFlash would need modifications people won't want / be able to perform. Too bad.
Easiest solution would be using the /OE from my board as input to logic on the MegaFlash which would prevent it from activating it's own ROM. Doesn't seem to be any free wire on the expansion port which would have made this cleaner.
Sure enough without a romboard you can't use F-OS or any custom disc system which removes a lot of interest to the RTC. Remains access from basic but...
Ok... just an idea!
Would the RTC itself be compatible with the X-MEM or MegaFlash? In this case the TimeROM software could be loaded into the X-MEM / MF without any trouble.
If not? Can the RTC itself get a high ROM number and we patch the TimeROM software to look there?
Just ideas. :)
Well trouble is the way the RTC socket works (or at least I understand it works). Say it's at position 5 with an EPROM on top (containing TIMEROM+ for example), then the socket is totally transparent and the EPROM is accessed from the computer just like if the RTC module wasn't there.
However when the RTC receives the recognition pattern which turns it on, the socket is no longer a pass-through and the EPROM on top of it gets disabled, but the RTC remains enabled, allowing it to send data on the bus.
Meaning that the EPROM responding at the same position as the RTC has to be on top of it, no matter what. Be it a physical EPROM or an X-MEM or MegaFlash. If you load TIMEROM+ file in a MegaFlash, have the RTC without EPROM connected on another board in parallel, then both the RTC and the MegaFlash will answer when the RTC is accessed, causing failure.
However working with ROM numbers above 31 might be the solution, at least for F-OS. I'll look at MegaFlash schematics. A skillfull ASM coder will be needed to patch the TIMEROM+ however for basic operation, ideally below 7.
All updates regarding compatibility and design changes will be reflected in the first post I'll update.
@TFM (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=179) as requested ;)
(http://thumbnails111.imagebam.com/38916/30ad98389154905.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/30ad98389154905)
IIRC: The RTC and TimeROM don't have to be at the same ROM select. I remember I usually had them separated. Can somebody confirm or contradict? (I'm pretty sure though).
I think you are right.
I'll try since the prototype I made has 2x 28pins sockets, I can easily wire them for 2 different positions. Depends on how the TIMEROM+ is coded, it seems to be searching for the RTC on boot, unknown is how far (7? 15? 31?). If the RTC is at say pos 32 I doubt it will work.
What I (tried) to explain is that I believe no other ROM can be at the same position as the RTC, be it an EPROM, MegaFlash or whatever, UNLESS it's plugged on top of the RTC. Trouble is MegaFlash-like boards will respond on all empty slots with FF, what a physical romboard would not do because, well, no chip means no data :)
Right!
Guess the TimeROM searches slots 1-15, but I have to look at the source code...Yes.
EDIT: BTW Voting: I voted for "watch to plug in EPROM board", but I would take it in any way it comes. And I would like to have too of them if possible. But of course first one watch for everybody. :) :) :)
Added support for the ROM number selection to the FutureOS installer... (not tested on real machine now, because I'm currently moving).
Turns out the TIMEROM search for the RTC starts at 15 and works downwards, so a patch is on it's way.
Physical decoding of a higher rom position will need extensive reworking of the prototype though so stay tuned. Plus the backside of the proto board is... well a sort of wild jungle :)
Thanks TFM! In final version the RTC position will be fixed but choosing will allow users with a physical romboard to select their own 'random' RTC position.
Thanks dxs for your report... Now here an other little update of the FutureOS installer which automatically activated the Dobbertin RTC in the configuration bytes when altering the RTC ROM number.
EDIT: dxs could confirm it working! :) Thank you for testing! :)
Hi there!
First post updated with details and new pictures.
The board is now MegaFlash compatible, FutureOS compatible, and very soon will be tested with the X-MEM!
Awesome! :) BTW: I talked to some people in the German forum, I guess some of them would be interested in the RTC too. :)
I'm planning a 10 pieces batch as a start, as I don't want to have too many left on my desk...
I'm sure you will sell very easy 20 of them IMHO.[nb]10 PCB's cost nearly as much as 20, right?[/nb] :)
i order a board :)
Me too! :)
Oh hell, yeah why not. I'll have one too.
One for me, thanks.
Ok I'll make 20 of them then :)
I'll be on holidays this month so don't expect it to be available very fast however I'm working on it. Please watch this thread for updates.
Enjoy your holiday's!!! :) :) :) Tomorrow the month is over, back to RTC then. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :D :) :) :)
I like to have one for me if not too late.
Sure a 20 pieces batch will be made there will be one for you. But not this month cause I'm far away (March ;) )
Ah hell, have I declared interest? I think not :D What is the cost?
Hi!
To everyone who is interested in this MX4 card...
The routing on eagle is progressing but I've got very little spare time. I hit a problem when I realized the battery in the RTC module is now (2015) almost empty, I measured the voltage of a few of them.
Hence I'm changing a bit the design, you'll get either a brand new 3v battery or even a socketed batt like on PC mainboards. Howver this implies that I'm going to drop the "standalone" capability, so that the card will be meant to be plugged on a MX4 in parallel with a romboard (MegaFlash, X-Mem).
Stay tuned.
Sounds good to me. Still wanting this one.
Craig.
I am Interested also in a clock Board.
Ray
Hi there,
Eventually got some spare time and completed the design of the board. This is a tight fit on the MX4 format.
You can check the updated FAQ in the first post, but what you will get in short:
- usable as a standalone or with a MegaFlash / X-Mem, on the full CPC range
- user replaceable standard lithium button cell (big improvement over the original design), life should be >10yr
- MX4 format
- corrected software without the Y2K bug and "translated" in english or french
(http://thumbnails106.imagebam.com/41114/b0088a411132967.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/b0088a411132967)
What remains to be done is ordering the boards, components and soldering.
Keep an eye here if you want one.
Indeed I want one :)
Edit: No 2 actually, one for my 4128plus and one for my JustCPC :)
I also want one ! :)
Of course Im in as well!!! When you plan to ship??? ;D
When?
I would say after I order the pcbs, solder one to find out I made some stupid mistake, re-order the pcbs, then they get lost in the mail, then... :D
1 for me please, too.
Thanks.
sound interesting :)
i would then need a second Mother X4 :)
Quote from: radu14m on 06:38, 24 May 15
sound interesting :)
i would then need a second Mother X4 :)
I already do.
I'm still interested in one board.
Don't forget me. ;-) Push! ;-) Great to see that this comes forward. And an external battery is awesome! :) :) :)
Thank you for your support!
I ordered the parts including HCT ic's for lower CPC power supply drain - thanks Toto on this one.
The prototype PCB's should also be there in 3 weeks...
Great, one for me ;)
Me, too! Hoping for a correct desktop clock in SymbOS =)
Quote from: Poliander on 20:40, 06 June 15
Me, too! Hoping for a correct desktop clock in SymbOS =)
indeed, that's what I want one for too. Then my justcpc will be my main symbos machine. With the 3 inboard slots occupied by xmem, xmass and rtc.
Quote from: CraigsBar on 20:45, 06 June 15
indeed, that's what I want one for too. Then my justcpc will be my main symbos machine. With the 3 inboard slots(http://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png)(http://cdncache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png) occupied by xmem, xmass and rtc.
yes, thats the only usage place i see. It"s a nice to have
board imho.Or i am missing something ?
Quote from: radu14m on 20:50, 06 June 15
yes, thats the only usage place i see. It"s a nice to have board imho.
Or i am missing something ?
FutureOS as well, and I am hoping that ACMEDos will support timestamping on a FAT 32 filesystem...
ACMEDos... when it will be released ? :)
SyX will be back this summer. So, please, wait... 8)
AFAIK this kind of RTC is not supported by SymbOS at the moment. However, as stated, FutureOS does support it.
The Dobbertin RTC (that's what we are talking about here) is supported by (nearly) everything:
- Firmware (TimeROM)
- CP/M Plust (TimeROM+.COM)
- 63 KB Dobbertin CP/M 2.2
- FutureOS
There are lots of usages aside of the Time stamp (CP/M Plus or ACMEDOS). Use your fantasy ;)
I'm interested in one board too ! :P
Yesterday the first boards showed up in the mail, so I fired the soldering iron today and to my complete surprise the board / software is fully working as expected. Compatibility was checked with other MX4 extensions, everything is fine (I couldn't check regarding X-Mass as I'm waiting for the AcmeROM to be released).
I'll get back to interested people and also report in this thread. Price and details will be announced then, 20 pieces will be made, first come first serve.
(http://thumbnails108.imagebam.com/41707/3abdfd417068853.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/3abdfd417068853)
(http://thumbnails105.imagebam.com/41707/237740417068803.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/237740417068803)
The full stack ;)
(http://thumbnails108.imagebam.com/41707/3bad63417068977.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/3bad63417068977)
French software version, Di = dimanche = sunday.
(http://thumbnails108.imagebam.com/41707/13085e417069214.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/13085e417069214)
This is the final production board, except you won't get socketed ICs (except for the EPROM), and the EPROM will actually be an EEPROM (the same as in the MFII reproduction by Talrek).
Great news interested in 2 of these please. One for my just CPC and one for my other machines :)
Damn, I'll be on vacation then :( Can't I pre-order one piece?
Interested in one piece, depending of the cost ;)
Quote from: radu14m on 18:30, 21 June 15
Interested in one piece, depending of the cost ;)
Same for me
Quote from: dxs on 16:28, 21 June 15
Yesterday the first boards showed up in the mail, so I fired the soldering iron today and to my complete surprise the board / software is fully working as expected. Compatibility was checked with other MX4 extensions, everything is fine (I couldn't check regarding X-Mass as I'm waiting for the AcmeROM to be released).
I still have to make the user manual, and I'm overloaded with stuff until mid-july, so orders will be taken around mid-summer, I'll get back to interested people and also report in this thread. Price and details will be announced then, 20 pieces will be made, first come first serve.
This is awesome. I would like to take one for sure. :)
Actually I decided to start taking orders right now, so everybody who expressed interest in this thread should have received a PM with details. Shipping will take place from mid-july up to end of august.
Price has been set: including tracked shipping is 33.90e (36.90e) within France (Europe) for the first board. Each additional board is 30e.
If you want one and didn't post in this thread or didn't receive my PM, please get in touch I might have a few left.
ok dxs, then I'm up for one more ! (I haven't expressed my interest to this day).
Please just confirm availability.
Quote from: dxs on 11:52, 22 June 15
Actually I decided to start taking orders right now, so everybody who expressed interest in this thread should have received a PM with details. Shipping will take place from mid-july up to end of august.
qbert: PM sent
I don't want one, but full marks for keeping the design so "old school", no CPLD, FPGA etc, just good old TTL and through-hole parts! Beautiful.
Bryce.
Hi @dxs (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1074) : What are the jumpers good for? One switches the ROM off right?
On which number is the ROM located?
Can you please tell us a bit more? Finally a dream comes true for me! :) :) :)
Yeah well maybe I couldn't have FPGA'ed it ;) This is my first eagle project btw. If this was to be redone I would program a GAL to replace TTL parts.
A full documentation will be supplied, along with the software to be programmed into X-Mem / MegaFlash for use in parallel with such a board. The 3 jumpers are to be used to select the mode:
- all 3 to INT: internal eprom is used, this way the RTC can be used on it's own. ROM is at position 2. You don't need anything else to use the RTC.
- all 3 to EXT: external rom from romboard is used, this way the RTC can be paralleled with your X-Mem. The RTC module is at position &72 (decimal 114) and this info will be useful when installing FutureOS !
[ There are 3 jumpers because 3 bits from the databus are inverted, (&72 is 111 0010 and &2 is 10). ]
The RTC module I'm using is a modded Dallas DS1216, allowing using external battery and physically separating the RTC from EPROM. Regarding software, the mods I made are:
- a translation to English and French (there's not much into it actually, just the days of the week and a few other lines)
- correcting Y2K bug. This is how it's done: the leap years during 20th and 21th century are, by definition, at the same tens and units of years. I mean: leap years were 1904 1908 1912 ... and now they are 2004 2008 2012... So for any given date, the day of the week between 20th and 21th century is shifted by a fixed amount: -1.Meaning: 22/06/1915: Tuesday (day of week 2) 22/06/2015: Monday (day of week 1)and this is true for any day of the year.So I hex edited the two letter codes for the days, replacing TUesday by MOnday, etc etc.
- changing the way the software searches for the RTC module, allowing to find it at &72 or &2
However the board is really simple to use, thanks to the TIMEROM software. I'll give details later, I'm working on the user manual.
Quote from: Bryce on 20:30, 22 June 15
I don't want one, but full marks for keeping the design so "old school", no CPLD, FPGA etc, just good old TTL and through-hole parts! Beautiful.
Bryce.
How about a few cogs, two or three arms and a flip-calendar? :D
Quote from: Gryzor on 14:13, 23 June 15
How about a few cogs, two or three arms and a flip-calendar? :D
That's steampunk, not retro :D
Bryce.
Ah yes, do add some copper pipes in while you're at it.
Copper pipes, of course, an rtc must need some serious cooling ;)
:D
Unfortunately it can only have two dials at most... Or maybe three.
And where, pay tell, should we fit the flux capacitor?
Oh, that is one cultural reference too many. I'll be leaving now.
No, don't leave yet, the sand's not completely gone yet! (oo-er)
Lol.
A true Steampunk clock would have an Hourglass and dials with cogs :)
Bryce.
Quote from: Gryzor on 18:22, 21 June 15
Damn, I'll be on vacation then :( Can't I pre-order one piece?
--- > PM sent!Otherwise a first board was dispatched today to an undisclosed french member, so expect some feedback soon ;)
Thanks for the explanation. :) So setting some jumpers to in and ext can change the ROM number according to the bit. Good to know! :)
Quote from: dxs on 13:09, 23 June 15
- correcting Y2K bug. This is how it's done: the leap years during 20th and 21th century are, by definition, at the same tens and units of years. I mean: leap years were 1904 1908 1912 ... and now they are 2004 2008 2012... So for any given date, the day of the week between 20th and 21th century is shifted by a fixed amount: -1.Meaning: 22/06/1915: Tuesday (day of week 2) 22/06/2015: Monday (day of week 1)and this is true for any day of the year.So I hex edited the two letter codes for the days, replacing TUesday by MOnday, etc etc.
OK so we can expect a Y3K bug :-X ;D
Actually the calendar is good up to 2099, by then I swear I'll replace all EPROMs for free :D
Up to then we will have a self adjusting software for sure. :P
Quote from: dxs on 16:07, 23 June 15
--- > PM sent!
Otherwise a first board was dispatched today to an undisclosed french member, so expect some feedback soon ;)
;D ;D ;D
Quote from: talrek on 19:46, 24 June 15
;D ;D ;D
Do you also want to be the first one who beta-tests my Virus for the Watch? :D
Is it dangerous ????
Quote from: talrek on 20:12, 24 June 15
Is it dangerous??????
[emoji33] [emoji33] [emoji33] [emoji33] [emoji33] [emoji33] [emoji33] [emoji33] [emoji33]
Envoyé de mon HTC One en utilisant Tapatalk
Quote from: TFM on 19:51, 24 June 15
Do you also want to be the first one who beta-tests my Virus for the Watch? :D
The worst it could do is tell the wrong time or no time at all, and only till you reboot. Not exactly a major threat :D
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 20:21, 24 June 15
The worst it could do is tell the wrong time or no time at all, and only till you reboot. Not exactly a major threat :D
Bryce.
Ups, yes, you're right. I referred to the SYMBiFACE II clock, which has some RAM. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :) :) :)
Quote from: TFM on 20:26, 24 June 15
Ups, yes, you're right. I referred to the SYMBiFACE II clock, which has some RAM. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :) :) :)
Yeah, a SymbiFace Virus! :D It looks like Windows, so to be truly authentic it should have viruses :)
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 20:45, 24 June 15
Yeah, a SymbiFace Virus! :D It looks like Windows, so to be truly authentic it should have viruses :)
Bryce.
Would be so easy to do this for SymbOS and then the only Anti-Virus-Software will run under FutureOS *rofl*
Hi !
Received Yesterday !!! Very well made, it is very neat ;-) great job.
I'll post some pictures when i have time. Also, i didn't have time to test it. I keep it for this weekend.
I'm curious if TIMEROM+.COM will work even when the clock is at ROM number &72. If not, an quick patch will do it. :)
I guess it was made along the same lines as the TIMEROM rom, so I expect a patch will indeed be needed.
However at position 2 (standalone mode) it will.
Ok here is a patched TIMEROM+ which scans ROMs 1-127. I call it TIMEROM# :laugh:
Let me know it it works please! :)
I'm away until mid july, and I don't travel with my CPC ;) Will try when coing back.
In the meantime I completed the user manual, see included .pdf !
Quote from: dxs on 10:21, 28 June 15
In the meantime I completed the user manual, see included .pdf !
WoW! Relly done very well!!! :) :) :) Thank you!!! :) :) :)
Awesome :)
This board won't melt down my cpc because of the leap second tonight?
In the next update the documentation could mention the TIMEROM+.COM[nb]See before for a working version with ROMs 1-127[/nb] program for CP/M which sets the software clock of CP/M according to the RTC. :)
Sure will do!
Btw I don't write books for a living, so please don't make fun of my writing style ;)
Quote from: dxs on 23:33, 30 June 15
Sure will do!
Btw I don't write books for a living, so please don't make fun of my writing style ;)
No, it looks cool! I like that one sees a picture, so this is better than any words. It tells all you need. Well, few people may use it for CP/M, but why not also having a comment for them. I know, my patch arrived too late to be put into the first version. :)
Quote from: TFM on 19:15, 02 July 15
No, it looks cool! I like that one sees a picture, so this is better than any words. It tells all you need. Well, few people may use it for CP/M, but why not also having a comment for them. I know, my patch arrived too late to be put into the first version. :)
That's the one thing I missed in the symbiface rtc... CPM and amsdos support
Quote from: CraigsBar on 19:23, 02 July 15
That's the one thing I missed in the symbiface rtc... CPM and amsdos support
Actually it's not a big thing to patch the TIMEROM+.COM or the TIME-ROM (ROM) for the SF2 RTC. If you would like to have that then I can take a look into it. But it may take a bit, the job keeps my busy over the weekend too now. :-X
That would be very cool thanks. Sf2 rtc in amsdos and CPM would be a wow factor lol.
Hi there, Quick update to tell those who bought my CPC RTC that I started shipping, Rennert, Jungsi and Poliander you should shortly receive the board.
When your board is shipped you will receive an email containing the tracking information, user manaul and ROM files.
Awesome! Can't wait until I get mine, but don't rush it of course. :)
Mine has arrived today. Very well crafted - and working perfectly on my 664/MotherX4/XMEM/XMASS setup.
Thank you very much, @dxs (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1074)
I would get also one, but still don"t see the use of it.
Can you guys give some example of the card usage ? ;D
Today the board is receive, works fine. Thanks for the great board ;)
Hi, Sorry there's no board left anyway and no future batch planned.
Use is the same as almost everything we "do" with our CPC, tampering with old electronics / computers, bringing back memories, creating, experimenting, ...
Thanks for the feedback and the kind words ;) Shipping will go on, all boards are soldered now.
Once it's supported in SymbOS then it will be very useful.
No rush @Prodatron, I've not got mine yet ;)
Quote from: CraigsBar on 20:21, 18 July 15
Once it's supported in SymbOS then it will be very useful.
Well, even if there is the danger that you will again argue that I bitch at symbos I have to provide my comment here... ;) :)
This excellent RTC
IS already very very useful, because there is support for:
- Firmware/BASIC/Amsdos (Use the wonderful TIMEROM, which provides a nice variety of RSX commands)
- CP/M Plus (which really makes sense because it actually has time stamps)
- CP/M 2.2 (yes, indeed!)
- And therefore there is support for the Z3Plus and NZCOM
- FutureOS
It works great...
I use it mainly to turn my CPC into a big clock. (If someone can make a program with a handwatch, that would be great !)
I now have to find another use, but it's really funny :-D
Thanks @dxs (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1074)
Quote from: remax on 23:52, 24 July 15
It works great...
I use it mainly to turn my CPC into a big clock. (If someone can make a program with a handwatch, that would be great !)
I now have to find another use, but it's really funny :-D
Thanks @dxs (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1074)
Can you post a picture of the clock you like as CPC screen?
Quote from: TFM on 16:21, 25 July 15
Can you post a picture of the clock you like as CPC screen?
Something simple like that
(http://www.ikea.com/PIAimages/13080_PE040801_S3.JPG)
Ah the classic design... Now I just need to get the RTC and sadly also a new monitor, because my Sony broke (well, the cat knocked it down the Desk, it did still work for a while, but no it remains dark and the cat lives outside now). Maybe I can do something nice, but it will take a while. :)
Quote from: remax on 23:52, 24 July 15
It works great...
I use it mainly to turn my CPC into a big clock. (If someone can make a program with a handwatch, that would be great !)
I now have to find another use, but it's really funny :-D
Thanks @dxs (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1074)
I am doing the exact same right now. Seems to be a great use for a CPC to me. The Hour chime is bloody brilliant :) Well done. this is awesome work @dxs (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1074). I cannot wait for my Just CPC to arrive and I can start building a box that I don't feel guilty leaving on to display a clock ROFL.
I've received the board. I have to test it if I get some free time but thank you for all.
Quote from: dxs on 18:28, 18 July 15
Hi, Sorry there's no board left anyway and no future batch planned.
Maybe one day. That would be nice!
How much did you make? 20 boards?
Thanks to everyone who sent me a message when their board was delivered.
Yep 20 were made. Btw did you get yours?
Quote from: dxs on 22:15, 01 August 15
Thanks to everyone who sent me a message when their board was delivered.
Yep 20 were made. Btw did you get yours?
Not yet, but overseas takes a while. It will come. :)
EDIT: It arrived yesterday! Yay! :) Looks absolutely professional made! Thank you very much!!! :) :) :)
@ DXS
Thanks
Mine arrived today Monday 10 August 2015 ! Yay! Looks absolutely professional made! Thank you very much!!!
Thanks for the Note on the Box about shorting out the battery.
Keep up the good work
Ray Australia ( Down Under )
What did the note say?
The Note said
"" Read the Manual before powering up.
Caution live battery, don't lay the board on another or Metal Surface.. ""
Thanks Ray
Thanks Audronic I'm glad you received it fine, right at the other site of the earth!
BTW I have one very last CPC RTC remaining so if anyone want it get it touch, otherwise I'll ebay it (33.9 including shipping in France, 36.9 Europe, other request quote - not that much more).
Why ebay it? You finaly made that for money? ???
You should keep it if a guy come late here, or simply if needed to replace a defective one (after sales service). No ?
Quote from: dxs on 09:52, 11 August 15
BTW I have one very last CPC RTC remaining so if anyone want it get it touch, otherwise I'll ebay it (33.9 including shipping in France, 36.9 Europe, other request quote - not that much more).
I'll donate 10,00 € if you give it to @Prodatron (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13)
::)
Quote from: Poliander on 11:45, 11 August 15
I'll donate 10,00 € if you give it to @Prodatron (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13)
::)
I'll match that if @Prodatron (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13) confirms he will add support for this card to Symbos ;)
Ok :)
If a third 10e volunteer show up I'll send it to him!
(TotO I waited for everyone to receive it's card, and ebaying something doesn't mean necessarily ripping people off. Just reaching peole who don't come here)
OK, send it @Prodatron (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13). 8)
Did anybody told him about this, or we just make this appear in his mailbox out of the blue ? :D
That's out of the blue :D My 10 € are already on its way to you @dxs (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1074)
i"m waiting for the next batch to order one :)
when is the next batch planned ?
Quote from: Poliander on 18:24, 13 August 15
That's out of the blue :D My 10 € are already on its way to you @dxs (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1074)
Mine too. :)
This is crowd funding at it's best ;)
Quote from: dxs on 18:04, 13 August 15
Did anybody told him about this, or we just make this appear in his mailbox out of the blue ? :D
the number of @Prodatron (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13) tags in this thread it certainly should not be out of the blue ;) LOL
@Poliander (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=203) I got your crowd funding participation thank you!
@CraigsBar (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=482) let me know if you need my Paypal id again.
@TotO (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=290) Pm sent!
Believe it or not some people actually enjoy off-line holidays 8)
Quote from: dxs on 21:56, 13 August 15
@Poliander (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=203) I got your crowd funding participation thank you!
@CraigsBar (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=482) let me know if you need my Paypal id again.
@TotO (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=290) Pm sent!
Believe it or not some people actually enjoy off-line holidays 8)
I sent it already. Can you double check you PP I used the same address as the payment for my 2 RTC boards
Me too... ;D
I got all the payements, @CraigsBar (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=482) I didn't receive the email as usual but the money did arrive on the account so everything is fine.
Shipment will take place shortly I'll keep you crowd-funders posted !
Thanks so much guys!! :o I didn't have a look at this thread for a while, so I was very surprised when I got DXS pm today.
Wow, thank you Poliander, Craigsbar, TotO and DXS! Of course now I will add Dobbertin RTC support in SymbOS :)
DXS, I will send you a pm now!
Oh crowdfunding for a CPC, this is good :) Well done guys
Prodatron's gift has just been sent to Germany this evening !
If further software support sparks more interest in this board a new batch could be relaunched, for at least 10 pieces.
So anybody willing to buy one in the future just drop me a PM or post here, I'll write your name down.
Well, I would take a second one. But people who don't have one at all should always be served first. :)
One little question, was the original Dobbertin Smartwatch always placed at ROM 2 and/or ROM 114 as well?
Quote from: Prodatron on 17:54, 14 August 15
One little question, was the original Dobbertin Smartwatch always placed at ROM 2 and/or ROM 114 as well?
The origninal SmartWatch could be placed at position 1-15. most people had it at 14 or 15. The ROM software and the CP/M tools checked that range of ROM numbers.
So basically it can be everywhere.
Quote from: dxs on 17:02, 14 August 15
Prodatron's gift has just been sent to Germany this evening !
If further software support sparks more interest in this board a new batch could be relaunched, for at least 10 pieces.
So anybody willing to buy one in the future just drop me a PM or post here, I'll write your name down.
As my PM from yesterday, i'm Interested in one.
Regards,
If somebody out there (f.e. @Prodatron (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13) ) needs code to read / write the Dobbertin RTC just let me know and I will post code here.
To mention one piftall here: The code to access the watch MUST be in RAM, it can not work from ROM.
After studying the documentation (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Dobbertin_Smart_Watch) and the time ROM itself I came to this routines for reading and writing:
;### DSWRED -> read 8 bytes from the Dobbertin Smart Watch
;### Input HL=destination address
;### ROM is already selected
;### Destroyed AF,BC,HL
dswred ld b,8
di
dswred1 ld c,128
dswred2 ld a,(#c004)
rra
rr c
jr nc,dswred2
ld (hl),c
inc hl
djnz dswred1
ei
ret
;### DSWWRT -> write 8 bytes to the Dobbertin Smart Watch
;### Input DE=source address
;### ROM is already selected
;### Destroyed AF,B,DE,HL
dswwrt di
ld a,(#c004)
ld b,8
dswwrt1 ld a,(de)
ld h,#c0
scf
dswwrt2 rr a
jr z,dswwrt3
ld l,0
rl l
ld l,(hl)
jr dswwrt2
dswwrt3 inc de
djnz dswwrt1
ei
ret
There is additional stuff to do like resetting the recognition patterns and sending them again, but these should be the both core routines. I will see soon, if it works :)
I wonder if it's possible to optimize the READ routine like this:
;### DSWRED -> read 8 bytes from the Dobbertin Smart Watch
;### Input DE=destination address
;### ROM is already selected
;### Destroyed AF,BC,DE,HL
dswred ld b,8
lh hl,#c004
di
dswred1 ld a,128
dswred2 rr (hl)
rra
jr nc,dswred2
ld (de),a
inc de
djnz dswred1
ei
ret
The RR (HL) command will do a write to #c004, would this disturb the communication??
Looks good. Of course it's the most fun to make own routines. ;D IIRC I unlooped it to speed it a bit up. But it's basically the same...
Ok, now on my own PC I could dig that out...
;TFM of FutureSoft - part of FutureOS
;All rights reserved and other bla, bla, bla
;Dobb.Uhr Daten ins RAM ab UHR_00 ; AKT_ROM ein
;Mani; AF,BC,DE,HL
LUHR LD BC,(UHR_ROM)
OUT (C),C
LD A,(&C004)
LD DE,&C000
LD HL,&C001
CALL KOAS
CALL KOAS
LD E,4 ;DE=&C004
LD HL,UHR_00
LD B,8
RDUL LD A,(DE)
RRA
RR C
LD A,(DE)
RRA
RR C
LD A,(DE)
RRA
RR C
LD A,(DE)
RRA
RR C
LD A,(DE)
RRA
RR C
LD A,(DE)
RRA
RR C
LD A,(DE)
RRA
RR C
LD A,(DE)
RRA
RR C
LD (HL),C
INC HL
DJNZ RDUL
LD BC,(AKT_ROM)
OUT (C),C
RET
KOAS LD A,(HL)
LD A,(DE)
LD A,(HL)
LD A,(DE)
LD A,(DE)
LD A,(DE)
LD A,(HL)
LD A,(HL)
LD A,(DE)
LD A,(HL)
LD A,(DE)
LD A,(HL)
LD A,(HL)
LD A,(HL)
LD A,(DE)
LD A,(DE)
LD A,(HL)
LD A,(HL)
LD A,(DE)
LD A,(DE)
LD A,(DE)
LD A,(HL)
LD A,(DE)
LD A,(HL)
LD A,(DE)
LD A,(DE)
LD A,(HL)
LD A,(HL)
LD A,(HL)
LD A,(DE)
LD A,(HL)
LD A,(DE)
RET
;Uhr-Daten schreiben
;-------------------
;DE=8 Bytes in.Page, Dobb.komp
;Mani; AF,BC,E,HL,BC',DE',HL'
;AKT_ROM aktiv
SUHR EXX
LD BC,(UHR_ROM):OUT (C),C
LD A,(&C004)
LD DE,&C000
LD HL,&C001
CALL KOAS
CALL KOAS
EXX
LD BC,&0800
LD H,&C0
SUGL LD A,(DE):SCF
SUNB RR A:JR Z,SUZZ
LD L,C
RL L
LD L,(HL)
JR SUNB
SUZZ INC E
DJNZ SUGL
LD BC,(AKT_ROM):OUT (C),C
RET
Quote from: TFM on 21:18, 26 June 15
Ok here is a patched TIMEROM+ which scans ROMs 1-127. I call it TIMEROM# [emoji23]
Let me know it it works please! :)
I am not sure if anyone else has tested this. So I did.
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/18/1571cb637ee220a537131e56ce030029.jpg)
As you can see it works [emoji3] but the year is screwed up, unless " ;5 " is an unusual way of writing 2015 or 15 that I am not aware of [emoji6]
That's expected. There are versions of DATE.COM including the year 2K patch. I can upload this later on from my own Laptop.
Oh, my CP/M ROMs do contain the Y2K bugfree version IIRC. Let me check later...
EDIT: No, they don't .. yet... but I fix that. (Problem: The ROM CP/M Plus uses an internal DATE command, so how to override that? We'll see ... ;) ).
Aaaaarrrrgggghhh! The Y2K bug has finally got us! 15 years later.
Bryce.
And here is the fix: (see attachment)
Please use all the new programs, especially when using date stamping. Enjoy! :)
Thanks. Perfect.
My pleasure. :)
Thanks TFM for your help, as usual!
Quote from: dxs on 09:37, 19 August 15
Thanks TFM for your help, as usual!
Thanks for your thanks! :)
fun mode on...
But don't like me posting CP/M stuff, move that like over to my FutureOS source code sniplet!
fun mode off...
Well you did a great job with the RTC. Actually it THE ONLY ONE currently available somehow (maybe one day Dr. Zed will make a new batch of SF2's though). So it's of course the communities duty to support you. :)
Yeah well don't forget only 20 were made, not to mention some people bought more than one ;D
TBH... I have hope that you make a 2nd batch. ;D :)
The Dobbertin Smart Watch is now supported in SymbOS, including autodetection :)
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
It will be included in the next Beta version, which will be available for download probably end of September or beginning of October.
Thanks again to Poliander, CraigsBar and TotO for the donation and of course to DXS for this nice piece of hardware!!
Ah, good to see this thread coming up agian. :) Now I got my CPC working again in the USA and I had time to verify the TIMEROM#.COM I posted here before, it does work find. I also included it in the CP/M Plus ROMs collection I made (see download on my homepage),
The RTC behaves excellent, and at least as well as the original. :)
Awesome news. I did see yesterday that the rtc rom corrupts fw3.15 mode 2 startup screen, and that it breaks the hxc v3 app from either autoboot hfe or rom. Will test further and confirm later.
Sent from my A3-A30 using Tapatalk
Quote from: CraigsBar on 16:11, 21 September 15
Awesome news. I did see yesterday that the rtc rom corrupts fw3.15 mode 2 startup screen, and that it breaks the hxc v3 app from either autoboot hfe or rom. Will test further and confirm later.
Sent from my A3-A30 using Tapatalk
The documentation of the RTC stated that it's important to put the jumpers from int to ext when using an x-MEM. In this case you put the TimeROM in one 16 KB slot of the X-MEM. If there are problems, please describe the hardware configuration you're using. I got no problems here, but my setup will be different.
Quote from: TFM on 17:26, 21 September 15
The documentation of the RTC stated that it's important to put the jumpers from int to ext when using an x-MEM. In this case you put the TimeROM in one 16 KB slot of the X-MEM. If there are problems, please describe the hardware configuration you're using. I got no problems here, but my setup will be different.
Yes I know that. It makes no difference if the rom is internal or external. See screenshots linked below.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/f6ec501a78m4tbo/2015-09-21%2022.15.58.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hs0fihtch1b3hg3/2015-09-21%2022.17.45.jpg?dl=0
I'd be interested in a next batch ;)
Quote from: CraigsBar on 00:03, 22 September 15
Yes I know that. It makes no difference if the rom is internal or external. See screenshots linked below.
Dropbox - 2015-09-21 22.15.58.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/f6ec501a78m4tbo/2015-09-21%2022.15.58.jpg?dl=0)
Dropbox - 2015-09-21 22.17.45.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/hs0fihtch1b3hg3/2015-09-21%2022.17.45.jpg?dl=0)
For FW 3.15 thsi was expected, because it suppresses the sign on message. Therefore the TimeROM can't show you the graphic clock symbol, nor time, nor date. Clearly a FW3.15 problem.
About the HxC ROM... it's buggy anyway! I have the HxC as B drive and it always tries to fuck up my A drive by moving the head to track 255, that really suxx. The solution I found it to start the HxC tool from the autoboot.hfe file on drive B.
Sorry, for not being able to help more, but in this case the problems are somewhat in the cases nature. And there is no source for the HxC ROM out there (or I just don't know about it. Else a fix would be doable).
Quote from: TFM on 18:55, 22 September 15For FW 3.15 thsi was expected, because it suppresses the sign on message. Therefore the TimeROM can't show you the graphic clock symbol, nor time, nor date. Clearly a FW3.15 problem.
It is a feature... ;D
With 30 ROM, that avoid messages scrolling the screens, making things impossible to read and taking close to 5 seconds to get READY! :-\
I should update the X-MEM Install for asking about a QUIET or VERBOSE Firmware 3.15...
By the way, you can replace "CD 57 BB" by "CD 54 BB" for that. (offset $264E)
Quote from: TotO on 20:28, 22 September 15
It is a feature... ;D
With 30 ROM, that avoid messages scrolling the screens, making things impossible to read and taking close to 5 seconds to get READY! :-\
I should update the X-MEM Install for asking about a QUIET or VERBOSE Firmware 3.15...
By the way, you can replace "CD 57 BB" by "CD 54 BB" for that. (offset $264E)
I understand why the date and time don't show, and to be honest I prefer it quiet.... BUT with it quiet why does the clock face creep in. that was more the question.
Craig
As told, it is GFX not character. :)
@TotO (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=290) : A verbose / quiet mode selection would be nice. But even nicer would be the selection of MODE 1 / 2. :)
Quote from: TFM on 21:57, 22 September 15
As told, it is GFX not character. :)
@TotO (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=290) : A verbose / quiet mode selection would be nice. But even nicer would be the selection of MODE 1 / 2. :)
Hmmmm. But the symbos logo is also a graphic not characters and that is suppressed. Also, on the rtc rom, only the clock graphic is shown, and not the calendar one. Sorry, I don't buy your answer ;)
Sent from my A3-A30 using Tapatalk
Then ask somebody else. Or look into the source code.
Quote from: TFM on 23:37, 22 September 15
Then ask somebody else. Or look into the source code.
Yes, helpful
I would also be interested in the next batch. The idea would be to have X-MASS, X-MEM, this board and the clone of Multiface II at the same time :D
Quote from: TFM on 21:57, 22 September 15But even nicer would be the selection of MODE 1 / 2.
And restore Tape routines? Just use FW 3.0.
With that to handle ROMs, FW3.1x is mainly quiet and hardware information displayed on MODE 2 than not fit on MODE 1.
For some MODE 2 is hard to read. :o
Quote from: ||C|-|E|| on 03:47, 23 September 15
I would also be interested in the next batch. The idea would be to have X-MASS, X-MEM, this board and the clone of Multiface II at the same time :D
Then the MX4 is full with all you need. :)
2 or 3 more people and I'll look into making some more when I have time this fall. This time I would offer the possibility to buy the kit for those how like breathing toxic fumes... I mean soldering :-)
@Prodatron (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13) thanks for the great work!
Quote from: dxs on 17:16, 23 September 15
2 or 3 more people and I'll look into making some more when I have time this fall. This time I would offer the possibility to buy the kit for those how like breathing toxic fumes... I mean soldering :-)
Great news!!! :) :) :)
Quote from: TFM on 18:55, 22 September 15
For FW 3.15 thsi was expected, because it suppresses the sign on message. Therefore the TimeROM can't show you the graphic clock symbol, nor time, nor date. Clearly a FW3.15 problem.
About the HxC ROM... it's buggy anyway! I have the HxC as B drive and it always tries to fuck up my A drive by moving the head to track 255, that really suxx. The solution I found it to start the HxC tool from the autoboot.hfe file on drive B.
Sorry, for not being able to help more, but in this case the problems are somewhat in the cases nature. And there is no source for the HxC ROM out there (or I just don't know about it. Else a fix would be doable).
so can I confirm, that with the rtc fitted and rtc rom active you can launch hxc.bin from the autoboot.hfe? Because I can't. I get the same clock and app crash as I do with the hxc rom. I might go back to the hxc v2 ;)
You should be able to use RSX commands like !ROMON or !ROMOFF to select your active ROMs. Guess parking a ROM is only a valuable option for ROMs which one is NOT using on a regular base. However that brings me to the idea of adding an RSX like !RP (for ROM park which does just invert the first byte of a ROM at &C000 and by this means park or unpark it).
If I have time then I will take a look at the TIMEROM source code, but in my case the HxC ROM doesn't work at all from ROM (only from autoboot.hfe disc image).
The TIMEROM isn't imho interfering with other stuff, except reserving some RAM maybe. Try to move it to a place lower than that of the HxC (I can't to that experiment, because HxC always accesses the wrong physical drive, which is bad for the mechanics. Got no idea where's the problem).
EDIT: Thinking about all that it reminds me a lot about the pioneer days of the CPC. Also back the day products / ROMs from different 'companies' didn't work together well. That was one main reason for me to decide to do my own OS, leaving the flaws of other OS behind me: Monolithic and made for a dedicated hardware, no need to run with any platform. Just run well with one platform. :) Seems that in time things always repeat. :)
Hello all,
I am always looking for this board :)
Got dxs via PM, he actually agrees for a 10 boards' second batch.
@TFM, radu14m, Singaja, ||C|-|E||, are you always interested in one board?
If yes, counting me, we miss 5 more...So, are some other people interested in?
Cheers.
Yes, I'm still interested. I reckon there's no other MX4 board forthcoming which would have the clock functionality combined with something else analogously to Symbiface2 (which is not MX4 obviously)? There were some ideas to make a MX4 board for the PS/2 mouse, I'm not sure if this can be combined together with clock but would be cool if feasible, because I'm running out of MX4 slots (I know the MX4 motherboard can be stacked but my Amstrad(s) surrounding is getting messy :P)
I would interested in the board, sure :D
Hi! I would definitely take another one. :) The board itself is in great quality, fits the MX4 slots and is supported by all major CPC-OS. IMHO the best choice of an RTC for the CPC. :)
:)
So, need 6 more to go.
Someone else interested ?
Regards
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-Rb6bYtnRE)
[/url]
I always keep in mind to produce a MiniBooster add-on that provide RTC and mouse.
It is intended to be plugged over it and not waste an extra MX4 slot. But I have not actually the time to acheive it.
That would be a superb idea as well, really superb to be honest :)
The MiniBooster was made for and we have already done prototyping some years ago.
It is why, this expansion is slim and some pins are available for extra serial capabilities.
Hi dirtybb,
I'm interested in this RTC board too.
Having CP/M plus with RTC would be great.
Kind regards
netmercer
I'm interested in an RTC board too!
Cheers
Quote from: netmercer on 16:09, 20 March 16
Hi dirtybb,
I'm interested in this RTC board too.
Having CP/M plus with RTC would be great.
Kind regards
netmercer
Quote from: archcosmo on 21:44, 20 March 16
I'm interested in an RTC board too!
Cheers
So, only 4 more to go now :)
Someone else interested in ?
We're getting there! ;D
Well, if nobody wants them I can take two too. They're awesome! :)
Hi there,
To people interested in the CPC RTC, I received a request for 2 more boards via PM so I think we're at something like 8, I'll start a 10 pieces batch. Expect a delay of at least 1 month, payments will be requested once the boards are made or at least components are ordered.
Watch your PM's.
Best CPC regards
Thierry
Great news!!! :) :) :)
Quote from: dxs on 10:03, 04 April 16
Hi there,
To people interested in the CPC RTC, I received a request for 2 more boards via PM so I think we're at something like 8, I'll start a 10 pieces batch. Expect a delay of at least 1 month, payments will be requested once the boards are made or at least components are ordered.
Watch your PM's.
Best CPC regards
Thierry
Great :D
Thanks !
Quote from: CraigsBar on 16:11, 21 September 15
Awesome news. I did see yesterday that the rtc rom corrupts fw3.15 mode 2 startup screen, and that it breaks the hxc v3 app from either autoboot hfe or rom. Will test further and confirm later.
Sent from my A3-A30 using Tapatalk
Now that i can test my X-Mem, i can confirm the problem, and it's quite major, especially for the HxC...
Quote from: remax on 23:32, 13 April 16
Now that i can test my X-Mem, i can confirm the problem, and it's quite major, especially for the HxC...
Indeed. Hopefully fixable ;)
Quote from: remax on 23:32, 13 April 16
Now that i can test my X-Mem, i can confirm the problem, and it's quite major, especially for the HxC...
For this case you have the jumpers on the RTC board. When using it together with the X-MEM then you set the jumpers and that's it. (Without the jumpers set the RTC runs all alone fine). Just look at the instruction manual of the RTC. :)
Quote from: TFM on 16:08, 14 April 16
For this case you have the jumpers on the RTC board. When using it together with the X-MEM then you set the jumpers and that's it. (Without the jumpers set the RTC runs all alone fine). Just look at the instruction manual of the RTC. :)
No
The problem, as CraigsBar stated in his post too, happens also when the RTC is in EXT mode with the RTC rom flashed on the XMEM (at slot 12 for me).
If the RTC is plugged, then HXC Manager hangs, if it's not plugged, it works ok. See the screenshot of Craigsbar.
That's not a problem of the RTC. Simply disable the Time-ROM and FW 3.1x and HxC shall run.
However the Time-ROM was there before, FW 3.x and HxC manager came later, they should be adapted.
If I understand right, then for FW 3.x there is a bit of the watch to see on the screen, ok, that shouldn't bother much if this is the only problem.
About the HxC software, I never got it really running from ROM anyway, it works only from a DSK, so I can't really talk about it. But obviously it still has some bugs in the ROM version, which tries to crash my 3" disc. :(
ERM. The same happens when launching the hxc manager from disc BTW. So it's not just the ROM.
Quote from: CraigsBar on 22:18, 14 April 16
ERM. The same happens when launching the hxc manager from disc BTW. So it's not just the ROM.
Well, in my case it is like I described. You seem to have an additional factor, or we are not completely on the same page. [nb]Frog protection you know?[/nb]
But to end this discussion: Ok, so some ROMs are incompatible, that's nothing new. So one can use commands like !ROMON or !ROMOFF to select the desired ROMs and everything is good.
What's the alternative anyway? There is no other RTC with support for BASIC, CP/M, FutureOS and even SymbOS. :)
Quote from: TFM on 16:54, 15 April 16
But to end this discussion: Ok, so some ROMs are incompatible, that's nothing new. So one can use commands like !ROMON or !ROMOFF to select the desired ROMs and everything is good.
What's the alternative anyway? There is no other RTC with support for BASIC, CP/M, FutureOS and even SymbOS. :)
I agree with you, but was hoping there can be a software patch. You're right that it might be easier on the HXC Manager side.
Quote from: remax on 20:15, 15 April 16
I agree with you, but was hoping there can be a software patch. You're right that it might be easier on the HXC Manager side.
Well, we have the source. And there could be a software patch. Just need somebody who can look at it. In this case it would be nice to have the source of the other two 'problem' ROMs too. If somebody volunteers please PM me. Sadly I have nearly no time at the moment.
Hy, iam interested in one board too!
So if there is a chance for one, please sign me in.
Or should i write a PM?
Thanks so much for the Work.
My original Dobbertin Timerom is dead for about 10 years, so a replacement would be perfect ;D
Hi, I just received the last missing parts for the 10pcs batch so it should be fine. No need to PM I'll get back to you when they're ready.
This one should last much longer considering the battery is user serviceable.
I am so nervous about... Future OS will have the correct time then.
Really nice
Quote from: Tolkin on 19:49, 17 May 16
I am so nervous about... FutureOS will have the correct time then.
Really nice
The new installer allows you to select the ROM number of the RTC. This number depends on the jumpers on the board. :)
Hi there,
I finished building the 10 cards, I sent PM's to interested people, if you like to have one too please send me a PM!
The great RTC arrived! Thank you very much! :)
Puh, it ist 22:30 here, find the Package on my Desk, a few seconds ago.
It arrived, package fine... so eat sth. and play a little bit with the clock :)
Thanks so much!
Hi,
the CPC RTC board arrived a few days ago. dxs, you did a great work with Y2K patch and the mod for battery use. Thank you very much. :-*
I have tested it already under BASIC and together with my Inicron ROM-RAM-Box. It works like a charme and the board looks very professional designed and soldered.
At last yesterday I had time to test the board with CP/M Plus. Time and Date for all files is marvellous. (Thanks to TFM for the TIMEROM#.COM patch)
Best regards
netmercer
Hy, played with the RTC yesterday until 4:00 in the morning.
Never thought that it is making so much fun with a "clock".
If you build another batch, you can count me in again for my 6128plus Setup.
Thank you so much!
And TFM too, of course!
Thanks to everybody for the kind words, I really appreciate it! I got some valuable input and help from a few people, especially TFM, Gerald and TotO.
BTW @Tolkin (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=81) if you like you can have another one right now, I was keeping a spare in case something would happen during shipping... Just PM me if needed!
Hello
I would like one of your Real Time Clock Boards if you have any left please.
Mark
I just found out that it's no more possible to play Fruity Frank on my 664 when the RTC is connected. Intro screen works (a first little glitch is visible while the intro screen is drawn) but entering the game results in a black screen (lockup). Tested with X-MEM FW 3.15. Booting with CPC BASIC ROM (I never start in MODE 2 basic, this disturbs CPC-RTC boot screen and disk menus)
My tests have shown almost the same result (graphical glitches may look different) on following setups:
- CPC 664 + CPC-RTC + X-MEM
- CPC 664 + CPC-RTC w/o X-MEM
- CPC 6128 + CPC-RTC + X-MEM
- CPC 6128 + CPC-RTC w/o X-MEM
So it seems there is incompatibility to be expected when RTC ROM is placed in X-MEM.
For a quick look I would guess that your power supply could be to weak.
Can you upload a DSK of the game you used, then I can test this and mabybe confirm and try to find out what's going on. :)
I'm using an additional external PSU (Conrad/VoltCraft SPS 15-36W). The game DSK can be obtained here (http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&onglet=dumps&num=930)
The 664 only scans for the first 8 ROMs (ROM 7 - 0). If the RTC ROM is in a slot above this, then it won't be visible or usable on a 64K CPC (the 6128 scans for ROMs 15 - 0). You also don't mention what was installed on the X-MEM. You may just have used up to much of the internal 664 RAM because of too many ROMs being installed. This can effect many games.
Bryce.
Thank you for your response! IIRC (currently at work) but ROMs in use are...
#00h - BASIC (not in use)
#01h - FW 3.15
#02h - RTC
#07h - CP/M
BTW on the 664 the RTC works even when I place it's ROM in X-MEM between 08h - 0Fh (but the game quits immediately after start displaying I have to reboot the machine). I used the same ROM configuration for both testing with 664 and 6128.
If FW3.15 is used, the 664 will scan for 16 (FW315EN16) or 32 ROMs (FW315EN32) not 8.
Quote- CPC 664 + CPC-RTC w/o X-MEM = RTC is not available at all (not shown on boot message)
Do you confirm his behaviour? Do you have anything else connected to the 664? Is your expansion connector spotless clean? Are the 3 jumpers of the RTC in the "Int" position when
NOT using the X-MEM?
Unfortunately I couldn't test the RTC with a 664 because I don't own any. Anyone having a 664 and the RTC board could confirm that the RTC works (or not) on 664?
If not, can you try replacing the lower ROM (using X-MEM or lower rom board from Bryce) with a 6128 firmware? Also try replacing rom 0 (basic) with a 6128 version?
---------------------------------------Quote
#00h - BASIC (not in use)
#01h - FW 3.15
#02h - RTC
#07h - CP/M
I'm using this opportunity to remember users that under no circonstance should the jumpers be set to "INT" when using an external romboard, be it the X-MEM, Megaflash or any other ROM board (at least one being based on modern chips, not an old one where you physically plug EPROMS).
Quote from: dxs on 10:33, 21 June 16
Do you have anything else connected to the 664? Is your expansion connector spotless clean? Are the 3 jumpers of the RTC in the "Int" position when NOT using the X-MEM?
There was nothing else connected and I confirm the jumpers were set correctly (I was absolutely aware that this is required). The expansion connector works perfectly when using it together with X-Mother/X-Mem and I used the same cable/plug when trying without X-Mother/X-Mem, directly connected to the RTC. Unfortunately I have no other ROM board to test with.
Could someone connect the RTC to a plain, unmodified 6128, without any other hardware, and try to start Fruity Frank, please? I suspect there is a collision in memory use somewhere which also affects my 664 setup.
Thanks for quick reply! I'm on holiday for a few days more so I can't test that for you now unfortunately.
Maybe can you try another version of the game (cracked / repacked / trained...).
I'm more concerned about possible incompatibility with the 664, which is quite strange as the RTC does work with both 464 and 6128. 664 and CPC RTC owners see above posts for requested help please!
I did just some testing again. And I have to tell you, this time the RTC works "as usual" on my CPC 664 when directly connected, without X-MEM. (I could think of one jumper did not properly fit...) So X-MEM can be fully dismissed from my "testing matrix" :-) ...and leaves an incompatibility between RTC and at least one game on both machines, 664 and 6128.
Quote from: Poliander on 18:00, 21 June 16
I did just some testing again. And I have to tell you, this time the RTC works "as usual" on my CPC 664 when directly connected, without X-MEM. (I could think of one jumper did not properly fit...) So X-MEM can be fully dismissed from my "testing matrix" :-) ...and leaves an incompatibility between RTC and at least one game on both machines, 664 and 6128.
Are you excluding the RTC ROM software from this test?
So is the bug with RTC on it's own ?
EDIT: I am wondering if the RTC ROM has installed a firmware interrupt. Fruity Frank uses firmware. Maybe it needs to reset the firmware to run correctly?
EDIT: Does Donkey Kong (ocean) also crash?
Ok for the 664, a jumper is indeed the most likely cause.
But you said everything is working fine with 6128 + RTC - XMEM.
The fact is that from the computer's point of view, regarding RTC operation, there is very little difference between this config and 6128 + RTC + XMEM.
So maybe you should try removing other ROMs from XMEM like fw3.15...
Also try the game with this config: 6128 + XMEM - RTC , both with or without the RTC rom, but with module physically unplugged.
@dxs (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1074) X-MEM can be excluded, same effect both with and without X-MEM (I updated my original post accordingly)
@arnoldemu (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=122) Donkey Kong runs fine on both 664 and 6128 (tested w/o X-MEM)
Ok I'll make some tests when back home. I think that the function which displays real time (ctrl + esc) or the programmable timer could be the culprit. I'll also check the one other known trouble soft aka hxc manager. If possible I'll release a patch but I'm quite ASM-impaired 🙄
Ok, there was not 664 to use. But I could do a test with the regular CPC6128.
On an MX4 board I had the dxs RTC, the X-MEM, X-MASS and Albireo. The RTC jumpers were all set to ext (see handbook).
I started Fruity Frank and it worked without an problem.
Therefore the RTC is not the problem, it could be the TimeROM on 664, but I don't have a 664 here.
Thanks for testing. But I experience same problem on both my 664 and 6128.
Yay, my RTC arrived yesterday :P
I'm at work again until very late today >:(. So I will play with it at the weekend.
Thank you very much @dxs (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1074) :D
Mark
In addition I tested Fruity Frank on my CPC6128 yesterday with only RTC connected and the TimeROM enabled. Everything worked fine. Couldn't reproduce the error you saw.
@Poliander (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=203): Sorry, can't help you any further (maybe try another PSU).
Something else:
However I saw that the TimeROM-ROM (located a postion 9 in an X-MEM) does not find the RTC when the RTC is at ROM select &72 (jumpers set to EXT), but FutureOS does find the RTC and shows time and date correct. So maybe the Time-ROM is not scanning all ROM slots for the RTC. I have to look into this one day.
Quote from: TFM on 15:26, 23 June 16
Something else:
However I saw that the TimeROM-ROM (located a postion 9 in an X-MEM) does not find the RTC when the RTC is at ROM select &72 (jumpers set to EXT), but FutureOS does find the RTC and shows time and date correct. So maybe the Time-ROM is not scanning all ROM slots for the RTC. I have to look into this one day.
Hi,
@TFM (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=179)
use the TIMEROM File dxs delivered to you per e-Mail, not a copy of the ROM from RTC board.
Kind Regards
netmercer
Quote from: netmercer on 16:44, 23 June 16
@TFM (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=179)
use the TIMEROM File dxs delivered to you per e-Mail, not a copy of the ROM from RTC board.
Kind Regards
netmercer
Good advice, can you post it here? (I had an email crash).
Quote from: TFM on 17:48, 23 June 16
Good advice, can you post it here? (I had an email crash).
Hi TFM,
it had been already posted at the first side of this thread :D
Quote from: netmercer on 20:16, 23 June 16
Hi TFM,
it had been already posted at the first side of this thread :D
Yes, but that's 1.00 and not 1.01
Quote from: TFM on 20:21, 23 June 16
Yes, but that's 1.00 and not 1.01
Yes, that's 1.00 from 19/05/2015, which I'm using too. I don't know a version 1.01 of CPCRTCEN.ROM.
Quote from: netmercer on 22:19, 23 June 16
Yes, that's 1.00 from 19/05/2015, which I'm using too. I don't know a version 1.01 of CPCRTCEN.ROM.
Maybe I mix things up, will take a look later. :)
You are both right.
1.01 is for onboard EPROM only
1.00 is for external romboard
The difference is that the onboard version searches for the RTC module at position 2, since it is hardwired that way. The External version starts looking at &72. Reason for that is that using onboard EPROM there would have been a slight delay at bootup while searching through &72 down to &2.
Hence V1.01 won't work when used in X-MEM with jumpers to "EXT".
In this thread (first post, or as I sent via email) you will only find v1.00, as users weren't supposed to dump the EPROM I shipped ;)
The numbering was used to make sure there was no mixup during development.
Let me ask an illegal question: The onboard EPROM is an 27C512 (iirc), that's 32 KB, the time-ROM uses 16 KB. Are the other 16 KB are mapped in somewhere? Is it for future expansion?
A mystery of the clock! :o :o :o
Actually the 27C512 is 64KB.
The remaining space isn't available, I chose this IC beacuse this was the least expensive memory I could have! The board is compatible with 27c128 27c256 27c512 I fixed the unused address pins at GND or 5v to ensure compatibility.
QuoteLet me ask an illegal question: The onboard EPROM is an 27C512 (iirc), that's 32 KB, the time-ROM uses 16 KB. Are the other 16 KB are mapped in somewhere? Is it for future expansion?A mystery of the clock! :o :o :o
are you expecting users to reverse-engineer FutureOS ? :D
Isn't it crazy? 16 KB are more expansive than 64 KB. :laugh: But yes, you could fit FutureOS on it. :-X
Hi,
I'm using the CPC RTC under CP/M+ and TIMEROM#.COM.
Is it possible to set time and date of the SmartWatch chip with a CP/M tool? Perhaps TIMEROM#.COM could do that, but I don't knew the syntax.
Standard CP/M+ tools like DATE.COM sets only the software clock of the CPC.
Best regards
netmercer
Hi, to set time and date you can either use the Dobbertin TimeROM or FutureOS. Well, I could make a CP/M program for you too, but I just picked up a new job a week ago (highschool teacher - never do that!!!), so I'm super busy at the moment.
Hi @GUNHED (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2029),
thank you for your answer and your friendly offer, but it's not necessary to do a lot of programing work. I'm searching for a already existing solution...
Best regards
netmercer
I'm way too late... ;D
I am interested in this interface, but I know that there will be no more produced.
By any chance, is anyone selling a used one?
If so you can send me a PM !
Well, maybe it would make sense to set up a second batch?
This RTC probably got the best software support of all RTC's on the CPC. So it would make sense to get a 2nd batch done.
Most important question: What does
@dxs think about it?
Is somebody else interested in getting one of the great
dxs RTCs?
Yes, I would be interested.......
Im interested too for my CPC+ ;D
I am also interested in a MX4 card for my 464 with CP/M plus (HDCPM)
I am also interested
Great! Now we need somebody to do a new batch! ;) ;) ;)
Several members of this forum could do that. Who would like to do it?
Who will do a new batch?
@dxs ,
@Piotr ,
@TotO ,
@Bryce ,
@PulkoMandy ,
@talrek or anybody else?
Sadly I can't do it by myself. :-X
- PulkoMandy will probably suggest you to buy the Nova board instead (NVRAM + RTC)
- X-MEM users can swap the RAM IC with a 9$ M48T512Y-70PM1 (https://www.utsource.net/itm/p/281852.html) (512K backed up + RTC)
Quote from: TotO on 16:06, 25 November 22- PulkoMandy will probably suggest you to buy the Nova board instead (NVRAM + RTC)
- X-MEM users can swap the RAM IC with a 9$ "M48T512Y-70PM1" (512K backed up + RTC)
Two well ideas. :)
1. The Nova I already got personally, it's a great card.
2. Also the X-MEM is awesome.
However, the RTC of the Nova does not have the same amount of software support compared to the dxs (Dobbertin) RTC. And the chip you mention for the X-MEM is commercially just not available.
What's the big advantage of the dxs RTC?
It's the software: There is a complete ROM for the native OS (full of wonders), there is also support in CP/M Plus (even in CP/M 2.2 - the one with 63 KB TPA) and of course for other OS too.
Quote from: GUNHEDthe chip you mention for the X-MEM is commercially just not available.
Well, I have provided the link to buy it. :-*
6 years ago, people don't looked interested by a 1024K backed-up RAM with RTC (Z-MEM)
Quote from: GUNHEDthe RTC of the Nova does not have the same amount of software support compared to the dxs (Dobbertin) RTC.
You may patch the softwares instead of asking to buy new hardware for the same usage. It will cost less for users. :)
Well, I followed you link 6 years ago, and I couldn't get it back the day, also at no other day. They seem to be very scarce. But you can provide a link of the X-MEM RTC right now.
I do not ask nobody to buy new hardware. And why shall I patch some software? My software already support everything RTC in CPC world.
Here we talk about that people want to buy the dxs RTC. Therefore I tried to support them here by asking hardware people for support.
Again: Just to make this clear, users WANT to get the dxs RTC! :)
Just slightly off topic, I remember Dk'Tronics used to advertise heavily in the CPC magazines back in the day. They had a RTC card too which I think came with RSXes on tape/disk and possibly some patches for CP/M. I don't see people talking about the Dk'T RTC though - was that not as popular and as well supported as the others ?
Quote from: GUNHED on 17:22, 18 November 22Well, maybe it would make sense to set up a second batch?
This RTC probably got the best software support of all RTC's on the CPC. So it would make sense to get a 2nd batch done.
Most important question: What does @dxs think about it?
Is somebody else interested in getting one of the great dxs RTCs?
I raise the subject.
It would make me happy that a new batch sees the light of day. 😉 👍
What I really like with this
dxs RTC interface (compared to the other solutions offered) is the integration of TIME ROM+ which allows to :
- Show date and hour each time the CPC starts on the top screen.
- The presence of RSX allowing to retrieve and use the date and time in programs, in a simple and intuitive way for everyone whatever the level of programming.
I would be interested too.
Looks really good.
Maybe one of the usual CPC hardware producers / cloners does read here and is willing to do a batch?
I revive the thread for asking a relative question:
I would like to add an RTC connector to the upcoming ULIfAC II board i'm developing (mostly a ULIfAC (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/ULIfAC)having two 512k sram chips, to offer 512k Expansion RAM + 32x Rom board at the same time) , so i was wondering if you can suggest what would be the best and most popular RTC solution, and where i could find the required connector pinout for it?
For example, i found URTC-8 project (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/URTC-8_Universal_RTC_for_Z80_computers), but i don't know if it is the most popular (thus useful) rtc board, and also there is no info about the pinout of it's 40pin connector either... ::)
Hi John
I Have one of these here
DXS RTC
I don't have any information about it.
Photo Below
Keep Safe
Ray
Quote from: ikonsgr on 23:52, 30 March 25you can suggest what would be the best and most popular RTC solution,
Probably the Symbiface II and Nova:
https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/RTC
Hello,
Probably off-topic, but I'm using the NOVA RTC card from
@PulkoMandy which works wonderfully.
(https://cpcrulez.fr/im4/2/poulette73-image147.jpg)
This card does not use the Internet : it keeps the date and time permanently, even when the Amstrad CPC/Plus is turned off. 8)
It works with a ROM and is used with an RSX.
More information here :
https://pulkomandy.github.io/shinra.github.io/nova.html
Or by contacting its author. ;)
(https://cpcrulez.fr/im4/2/poulette73-2023-011.jpg)
Quote from: ikonsgr on 23:52, 30 March 25I would like to add an RTC connector to the upcoming ULIfAC II board i'm developing (mostly a ULIfAC (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/ULIfAC)having two 512k sram chips, to offer 512k Expansion RAM + 32x Rom board at the same time) , so i was wondering if you can suggest what would be the best and most popular RTC solution, and where i could find the required connector pinout for it?
Cool! :)
Like Eto suggested I would go for either Nova or SYMBiFACE II compatibility.
I am not sure, if the Nova is more complex to implement, as it has this additional RAM which can be mapped into the CPUs memory as an 8K block.
The SYMbIFACE II is just using a Dallas DS12887A chip (this or a compatible one is probably still available?), and you can access it very simple with just two ports for register select and data read/write.
DS1302
It's still a bit sad to see incompatible modern hardware (Symbiface II, Nova, etc...), when commercial-era extensions existed (Dk'Tronics RTC, Dobbertin RTC).
I don't understand why the hardware guys feel the need to reinvent the wheel instead of making compatible hardware extensions.
Quote from: Prodatron on 11:00, 31 March 25I am not sure, if the Nova is more complex to implement, as it has this additional RAM which can be mapped into the CPUs memory as an 8K block.
I would expect that it makes more sense to implement the Symbiface logic. It's unlikely to connect Ulifac and Symbiface in parallel but it's pretty likely to connect the Nova (for it's NVRAM) in parallel to the Ulifac. Unless of course the Ulifac implements the whole Nova functionality.
As i see, both Nova and dxs rtc use a 50pin connector, obviously for direct connection to Amstrad's expansion port (using an MX4 board or an idc to edge/centronics connector cable), so if i add a 50pin female connector on the board, you could plug the rtc module directly on ULIfAC board.
The other option would be to include a DS12887A socket to "emulate" the RTC of SYMBiFACE II board.
Fortunately there are still a lot of DS12887A RTC chips (https://www.ebay.ie/sch/i.html?_nkw=DS12887A) available, and in quite cheap prices too! Then, as SYMBiFACE II RTC uses only &FD15 and &FD14 I/O addresses, i suppose i could use a CD74HCT4075E triple 3-input OR gate chip to activate it (use the appropriate 6 address bits that need to be '0' + IORQ=0 as inputs to the OR gates, and use the combined output to drive CS pin of RTC chip).
I will also need the required connections for the RTC chip, so after i consulted this (https://gr.mouser.com/datasheet/2/609/DS12885_DS12C887A-3421057.pdf), i came up to this:
AD0–AD7-address/data bus -> To Z80 data bus
MOT - Bus type selection -> to Gnd (Activate intel mode)
CS - Chip select -> Output from OR gate chip
AS - Address strobe -> Z80 Address bit 0 (&FD15 register select A0=1, &FD14 read/write selected register A0=0, i'm not sure about this as it uses rise/fall of signals and not level...)
R/W - Read/write input -> WE (Write enable from z80)
DS - Data strobe -> RD (Read enable from Z80)
RESET - Reset input -> Goes to reset button of ULIfAC board
IRQ and SQW are outputs so i suppose they don't need any connections, and also RCLR-RAM clear pin,as it has internal pull up.
Could you advise if the above pinout table is correct?
Quote from: Pollo on 13:01, 31 March 25It's still a bit sad to see incompatible modern hardware (Symbiface II, Nova, DXS RTC, etc...), when commercial-era extensions existed (Dk'Tronics RTC, Dobbertin RTC).
They are also not compatible to each other. DK'Tronics is not even documented and Dobbertin uses an addressing scheme that seems to require a lot of effort to emulate.
And at least in that particular case it doesn't really matter that the logic differs as there is hardly any application that would use it hard coded. It's primarily CP/M where it was used and in CP/M you just switch the utility depending on your hardware.
Quote from: Pollo on 13:01, 31 March 25It's still a bit sad to see incompatible modern hardware (Symbiface II, Nova, DXS RTC, etc...), when commercial-era extensions existed (Dk'Tronics RTC, Dobbertin RTC).
I don't understand why the hardware guys feel the need to reinvent the wheel instead of making compatible hardware extensions.
The DXS RTC is a Dobbertin RTC clone ;)
In general I completely agree, that new hardware should be compatible, so it's really good that Ikonsgr is thinking about this!.
But at 20 years old, the SYMBiFACE II is already a classic hardware extension, which also has several compatible successors (X-Mass, Cyboard, standalone PS/2 mouse adapter) and versatile emulator support.
*EDIT* sorry, it's Cyboard instead of Net4CPC
Quote from: poulette73 on 10:32, 31 March 25Hello,
Probably off-topic, but I'm using the NOVA RTC card from @PulkoMandy which works wonderfully.
(https://cpcrulez.fr/im4/2/poulette73-image147.jpg)
This card does not use the Internet : it keeps the date and time permanently, even when the Amstrad CPC/Plus is turned off. 8)
It works with a ROM and is used with an RSX.
More information here :
https://pulkomandy.github.io/shinra.github.io/nova.html
Or by contacting its author. ;)
(https://cpcrulez.fr/im4/2/poulette73-2023-011.jpg)
Is France still stuck in 2023 ? We've moved on to 2025 here. :D
Bryce.
Quote from: eto on 13:30, 31 March 25Dobbertin uses an addressing scheme that seems to require a lot of effort to emulate.
Yes, it behaves like a ROM, so it is like a memory mapped I/O device.
It is more easy just to have two I/O ports, at least on software side.
Quote from: ikonsgr on 13:25, 31 March 25As i see, both Nova and dxs rtc use a 50pin connector, obviously for direct connection to Amstrad's expansion port (using an MX4 board or an idc to edge/centronics connector cable), so if i add a 50pin female connector on the board, you could plug the rtc module directly on ULIfAC board.
The other option would be to include a DS12887A socket to "emulate" the RTC of SYMBiFACE II board.
Fortunately there are still a lot of DS12887A RTC chips (https://www.ebay.ie/sch/i.html?_nkw=DS12887A) available, and in quite cheap prices too! Then, as SYMBiFACE II RTC uses only &FD15 and &FD14 I/O addresses, i suppose i could use a CD74HCT4075E triple 3-input OR gate chip to activate it (use the appropriate 6 address bits that need to be '0' + IORQ=0 as inputs to the OR gates, and use the combined output to drive CS pin of RTC chip).
I will also need the required connections for the RTC chip, so after i consulted this (https://gr.mouser.com/datasheet/2/609/DS12885_DS12C887A-3421057.pdf), i came up to this:
AD0–AD7-address/data bus -> To Z80 data bus
MOT - Bus type selection -> to Gnd (Activate intel mode)
CS - Chip select -> Output from OR gate chip
AS - Address strobe -> Z80 Address bit 0 (&FD15 register select A0=1, &FD14 read/write selected register A0=0, i'm not sure about this as it uses rise/fall of signals and not level...)
R/W - Read/write input -> WE (Write enable from z80)
DS - Data strobe -> RD (Read enable from Z80)
RESET - Reset input -> Goes to reset button of ULIfAC board
IRQ and SQW are outputs so i suppose they don't need any connections, and also RCLR-RAM clear pin,as it has internal pull up.
Could you advise if the above pinout table is correct?
+1 for the SF2 RTC (DS12887) or NOVA.If you go for the DS12887 then you should know that the DS12R887 variant is still in production. (https://www.analog.com/en/products/ds12cr887.html)
I've been using it for the Cyboard (https://github.com/salafek/cyboard-for-cpc/)
which is open hardware so you can get all the info you need and of course I'm available for any questions that may arise. d_kef
The RTC situation is quite a mess. Let's rethink it:
* The Dobbertin is a kludge on top of a ROM.
* The Dk'Tronics uses an additional Z80 pio chip for no good reason.
*The Nova is an NVRAM extension first, to be used for debugging, the RTC just being an included freebie in the chip.
* The Symbiface II RTC seems to be the proper deal with versatile support.
Does the PIC have some spare pins left? If yes, could it could use a very cheap RTC with I2C and emulate the DS12887 functionality of the Symbiface? DS1307 board go for about 1€ if accuracy is not too important. Or DS3231 boards for less than 5€ with a few seconds per month deviation.
Just for info. I made a prototype RTC based on a DCF77 receiver a looong time ago. No idea where it is now, but it was very simple and of course as accurate as you can get. Maybe that should also be considered as an option if someone is creating a new device?
Bryce.
Quote from: eto on 14:58, 31 March 25Does the PIC have some spare pins left? If yes, could it could use a very cheap RTC with I2C and emulate the DS12887 functionality of the Symbiface? DS1307 board go for about 1€ if accuracy is not too important. Or DS3231 boards for less than 5€ with a few seconds per month deviation.
That would be a good idea, but i'm afraid there is nothing left on both PIC mcu's to support extra functions! :)
So in order to do that, it would need an extra PIC MCU which will add board size +cost + development time considerably, thus i don't think it's worth it, as most of Amstrad users don't care for RTC anyway.
My thought was to add some kind of an RTC connector (like the amiga kit's RTC module that plugs onto the trapdoor Ram expansion) to plug a ready-made RTC board for anyone needed (thus not adding additional cost for people that don't want it), but unfortunately as
@polo noted, RTC on CPC is quite a mess, there is nothing like "standard connector" for RTC support ... :(
@d_kef, Cyboard is indeed a good idea, if there is a way to "extract" the RTC part and add it to ULIfAC board. Unfortunately i couldn't load schematics file (i'm using DIPTRACE as pcb designing tool, which supports eagle projects, but it gives me an error when i tried to load sch file). If RTC part includes only RTC chip + some logic, and you can provide the required connections, maybe i could add it to ULIfAC board (i suppose something similar to what i proposed here: https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/real-time-clock-board/msg249384/#msg249384)
In any case ,for now, the only viable solution is to add a 50pin connector, for plugging Nova and dxs rtc boards.
Quote from: Bryce on 13:41, 31 March 25Is France still stuck in 2023 ? We've moved on to 2025 here. :D
Bryce.
LOL ;D
Hello Bryce,
My screen capture is old... I took it from a photo posted on CPC Rulez.. :P
Quote from: ikonsgr on 17:23, 31 March 25d_kef (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/profile/?u=4731), Cyboard is indeed a good idea, if there is a way to "extract" the RTC part and add it to ULIfAC board. Unfortunately i couldn't load schematics file (i'm using DIPTRACE as pcb designing tool, which supports eagle projects, but it gives me an error when i tried to load sch file).
You only need to drive 3 pins: DS, AS, R/W. For address decoding I use a 2x4input AND and a GAL and I don't think you can avoid them easily.
But you can certainly fit the 3 ICs on a small PCB and separate completely the RTC from the rest of the circuit.
Here is the schematic
cyboard.png
and the GAL equations
/* Cyboard for Amstrad CPC - I/O address decoding logic */
/* Copyright (C) 2023 Dimitris Kefalas */
/* This program is free software: you can redistribute it and/or modify */
/* it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by */
/* the Free Software Foundation, either version 3 of the License, or */
/* (at your option) any later version. */
/* This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, */
/* but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of */
/* MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the */
/* GNU General Public License for more details. */
/* You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License */
/* along with this program. If not, see <http://www.gnu.org/licenses/>. */
Name cyboard;
PartNo 01 ;
Date 7/02/2023 ;
Revision 01 ;
Designer Dimitris Kefalas ;
Company ;
Assembly none;
Location IC4 ;
Device g20v8a ;
/* *************** INPUT PINS *********************/
PIN 1 = A0 ; /* */
PIN 2 = A1 ; /* */
PIN 3 = A2 ; /* */
PIN 4 = A3 ; /* */
PIN 5 = A4 ; /* */
PIN 6 = A5 ; /* */
PIN 7 = A6 ; /* */
PIN 8 = A7 ; /* */
PIN 9 = A8 ; /* */
PIN 10 = A9 ; /* */
PIN 11 = A1X ; /*A15 & A14 & A13 & A12 & A11 & A10*/
/* PIN 12 = GND */
PIN 13 = !IOREQ ; /* */
PIN 14 = !RD ; /* */
PIN 23 = !WR ; /* */
/* *************** OUTPUT PINS *********************/
PIN 15 = CFA3 ; /* CF card A3 line */
PIN 16 = !W5CS ; /* W5100S module Chip select */
PIN 17 = !PINT ; /* PIC Interrupt line */
PIN 18 = RTCAS ; /* RTC Address Strobe */
PIN 19 = !RTCRW ; /* RTC Read/Write */
PIN 20 = !RTCDS ; /* RTC Data Strobe */
PIN 21 = !CFLED ; /* CF card activity LED */
PIN 22 = !CFCS ; /* CF card Chip Select */
/* PIN 24 = VCC */
/* Logic */
RTCRW = IOREQ & A1X & WR & !RD & A8 & !A9 & !A7 & !A6 & !A5 & A4 & !A3 & A2 & !A1 & !A0;
RTCDS = IOREQ & A1X & !WR & RD & A8 & !A9 & !A7 & !A6 & !A5 & A4 & !A3 & A2 & !A1 & !A0;
RTCAS = IOREQ & A1X & WR & !RD & A8 & !A9 & !A7 & !A6 & !A5 & A4 & !A3 & A2 & !A1 & A0;
PINT = IOREQ & A1X & RD & !WR & A8 & !A9 & !A7 & !A6 & !A5 & A4 & !A3 & !A2 & !A1 & !A0;
CFA3 = !A3;
CFCS = IOREQ & A1X & A8 & !A9 & !A7 & !A6 & !A5 & !A4 & !A3 & A2 & A1
# IOREQ & A1X & A8 & !A9 & !A7 & !A6 & !A5 & !A4 & A3;
CFCSLED = IOREQ & A1X & A8 & !A9 & !A7 & !A6 & !A5 & !A4 & !A3 & A2 & A1
# IOREQ & A1X & A8 & !A9 & !A7 & !A6 & !A5 & !A4 & A3;
W5CS = IOREQ & A1X & A8 & !A9 & !A7 & !A6 & A5 & !A4 & !A3 & !A2;d_kef
Thanks
@d_kef ! :)
Now, i took a look at RTC chip pinout and the 3 GAL equations for RTC:
RTCRW = IOREQ & A1X & WR & !RD & A8 & !A9 & !A7 & !A6 & !A5 & A4 & !A3 & A2 & !A1 & !A0;
RTCDS = IOREQ & A1X & !WR & RD & A8 & !A9 & !A7 & !A6 & !A5 & A4 & !A3 & A2 & !A1 & !A0;
RTCAS = IOREQ & A1X & WR & !RD & A8 & !A9 & !A7 & !A6 & !A5 & A4 & !A3 & A2 & !A1 & A0;
Now, instead of having CS to Gnd (always enable),and have complex logic for RW, DS,AS of RTC chip, i thought an alternative of activating CS using an OR gate chip that will combine the 6 address bits for &FBD14/&FBD15 ports that need to be '0' + IORQ=0 , and only then, CS will be active (='0')! AFAIK, there is no device or internal function of CPC that sets the specific 6 address bits at '0' at the same time upon I/O request, so i believe no other address bits will be needed to specifically select RTC chip.
The other 2 pins of RW and DS can go directly to WR and RD of Z80 as this is their function in intel mode (MOT->gnd)
And that leave us with AS (Adress strobe), which is exactly the same with RTCRW except for A0 which is inserted directly and not inverted (!A0). I thought of using A0 on AS pin but i don't know if it will work that way.
What do you think?
I think that partial address decoding will not be a problem.
Regarding the /CS signal I'm not sure. It's been a long time since I was experimenting with it and I'm pretty sure I took a similar approach that didn't work out. Maybe I'm wrong though.
Please take a look at the DS12887 datasheet. I think there is a reason /CS is tied to ground but I'm not sure. I'll also take a look at it tomorrow and try to remember...
d_kef
@ikonsgr QuoteFrom the DS12R887 datasheet:
Chip-Select Input. The active-low chip-select signal must be asserted low for a bus cycle in the DS12R885 to be accessed. CS must be kept in the active state during DS and AS for Motorola timing and during DS and R/W for Intel timing. Bus cycles that take place without asserting CS latch addresses, but no access occurs. When VCC is below VPF volts, the DS12R885 inhibits access by internally disabling the CS input. This action protects the RTC data and the RAM data during power outages.
Also the only relevant time parameter for Intel bus timing is tcs: Chip-Select Setup Time Before DS or R/W.
So it seems that your implementation should work and now that I looked at it, it seems more logical than mine.
That been said I'm still sure I had problems with it. ::)
I could re-test it in the weekend if you are interested.
edit: regarding AS, I think it's impossible to just have it connected to A0 as the Z80 puts the memory refresh address in the address bus in every machine cycle.
d_kef
@d_kef that would be very nice, if you could test my implementation, thanks! About AS, you think the only way to work right is to implement this multiple AND of so many signals? IOREQ & A1X & WR & !RD & A8 & !A9 & !A7 & !A6 & !A5 & A4 & !A3 & A2 & !A1 & A0
Anyway, if there is no other way to put RTC in the board, unless a GAL is also used, maybe i could add the extra logic i'm using in ULIfAC II to the GAL (two 14pin Logic gate chips), along with your equations, and so i could end up with only the GAL and the two 3-state buffers chips also existed (btw does GAL supports 3-state buffers with enable? Then perhaps i could also add to GAL the functions of the one 3-state buffer chip too)
Maybe it's time to learn GAL programming... :)
Quote from: ikonsgr on 23:52, 30 March 25I revive the thread for asking a relative question:
I would like to add an RTC connector to the upcoming ULIfAC II board i'm developing (mostly a ULIfAC (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/ULIfAC)having two 512k sram chips, to offer 512k Expansion RAM + 32x Rom board at the same time) , so i was wondering if you can suggest what would be the best and most popular RTC solution, and where i could find the required connector pinout for it?
For example, i found URTC-8 project (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/URTC-8_Universal_RTC_for_Z80_computers), but i don't know if it is the most popular (thus useful) rtc board, and also there is no info about the pinout of it's 40pin connector either... ::)
To use the dsx clone of Dobbertins TimeROM is a great idea. This clock has the following advantages:
- Conains a battery which lasts for 20-30 years (my 1987 clock still works!)
- Battery can be exchanges (see dxs board)
- This clock has (at least in Germany) the most commercial success
- For this clock you have the most / best software available. See Dobbertins TimeROM ROM which great features.
- Support for all mayor OS on CPC: Native OS, CP/M 2.2, 63K CP/M 2.2, CP/M Plus, FutureOS and more...
- It's cheap
- And it's very easy to program
- It doesn't waste ports, because it uses Memory mapped I/O in the ROM space
- It's save: No port collision no compatibility issues
Just the best choice!!!
As alternative (#2 in ranking) I would suggest the SF2 solution of the RTC.
@GUNHED, as already noted, to support dsx board, the only thing needed, is to add a 50pin expansion female connector, to plug the board directly on ULIfAC II board.
The thing is, how many such boards are out there and does this board is still available?
Although this is the "Easy way" to add RTC support, the other way (of adding a SF2 RTC clone), provided that will only require the DS12R887 RTC chip and a GAL chip (possibly a 22V10 that will also provide extra logic for ULIfAC board to replace the 2 logic gate chips), could offer an RTC support with minimum extra cost (even if someone don't want RTC, i could offer ULIfAC II board having only the socket of the RTC ;) ), as i suppose the cost of the RTC chip is much smaller than getting a dsx or NOVA board.
If i'm not mistaken them main usage of the RTC would be with CP/M+ and symbos OS, i know that SF2 RTC supports symbos but does it support CP/M too?
I took a look at Dobbertin's smart watch (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Dobbertin_Smart_Watch) and if i get it right, the original RTC , only needs the smart watch rom, and this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/335554259901
In that case, and since with ULIfAC you can easily mount smart watch rom (without needing an actual eprom chip), the only thing you will need to add at ULIfAC's II board, is the DS1216 adapter which must be connected exactly like amsdos rom on CPC 6128?
And if you see here: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=DALLAS+DS1216&_sacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_odkw=DALLAS+DS1216&_osacat=0&_sop=15
There are still 1000's DS1216 available at very low prices! :)
If that's the case, then as
@GUNHED noted, dobbertin's smart watch is indeed the best choice for adding RTC to the board, as apart from offering the most functions and compatibility, it would be very easy to add it on ULIfAC II board too (just an extra 28pin socket for the DS1216 adapter...), without needing any extra logic ic's or gal! ;)
Quote from: ikonsgr on 00:15, 03 April 25There are still 1000's DS1216 available at very low prices! :)
If that's the case, then as GUNHED (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/profile/?u=2029) noted, dobbertin's smart watch is indeed the best choice for adding RTC to the board, as apart from offering the most functions and compatibility, it would be very easy to add it on ULIfAC II board too (just an extra 28pin socket for the DS1216 adapter...), without needing any extra logic ic's or gal!
You could even use the DS1244 which is still in production and a drop-in replacement according to AD. (https://www.analog.com/en/resources/design-notes/how-to-replace-a-ds1216-smartsocket-with-an-equivalentdensity-phantom-clock-module.html#:~:text=Table%201.%20SmartWatch%20Replacement%20Products)
d_kef
Quote from: ikonsgr on 03/04/2025 01:15:39
If that's the case, then as
@GUNHED noted, dobbertin's smart watch is indeed the best choice for adding RTC to the board, as apart from offering the most functions and compatibility, it would be very easy to add it on ULIfAC II board too (just an extra 28pin socket for the DS1216 adapter...), without needing any extra logic ic's or gal!
It is more convenient from an hardware standpoint.
But less convenient from a software standpoint.
Quote from: Pollo on 07:52, 03 April 25It is more convenient from an hardware standpoint.
But less convenient from a software standpoint.
No, its extremely easy to use the Dobbertin / dxs SmartWatch Chip. Just reading (writing) from (to) an address in the memory. Not even an I/O command is needed. The complete driver is about 30 bytes and the source code is available. :-)
And as mentioned, for this clock there is by far the most supporting software.
The Dobbertin can be installed on any rom.
How do you know at what address you can find it?
Quote from: Pollo on 09:53, 03 April 25The Dobbertin can be installed on any rom.
How do you know at what address you can find it?
You just check if you can read from it. Or save a single byte which does indicate the ROM number. :)
If it sounds like a kludge and it feels like a kludge, it is a kludge ;)
Quote from: GUNHED on 09:38, 03 April 25Just reading (writing) from (to) an address in the memory.
This of course means that you do need additional logic for paging in the RTC.
The only difference is that you take /MREQ into account instead of /IOREQ. But since the ULIFAC already has a ROM/RAM paging mechanism in place, it should be easier.
d_kef
Quote from: Pollo on 10:09, 03 April 25If it sounds like a kludge and it feels like a kludge, it is a kludge ;)
So a Commercial product is just a kludge for you? Which
kludge RTC would you suggest to be used then?
Quote from: d_kef on 10:29, 03 April 25Quote from: GUNHED on 09:38, 03 April 25Just reading (writing) from (to) an address in the memory.
This of course means that you do need additional logic for paging in the RTC.
The only difference is that you take /MREQ into account instead of /IOREQ. But since the ULIFAC already has a ROM/RAM paging mechanism in place, it should be easier.
d_kef
As a software person I don't know about this in detail. The original product from Dobbertin was just to be put into any kind of EPROM socket. Very easy for the user that way. :)
Quote from: GUNHED on 10:32, 03 April 25Quote from: Pollo on 10:09, 03 April 25If it sounds like a kludge and it feels like a kludge, it is a kludge ;)
So a Commercial product is just a kludge for you? Which kludge RTC would you suggest to be used then?
SF2 and Nova are both straightforward.
SF2 is best for existing software support though.
Quote from: Pollo on 10:39, 03 April 25Quote from: GUNHED on 10:32, 03 April 25Quote from: Pollo on 10:09, 03 April 25If it sounds like a kludge and it feels like a kludge, it is a kludge ;)
So a Commercial product is just a kludge for you? Which kludge RTC would you suggest to be used then?
SF2 and Nova are both straightforward.
SF2 is best for existing software support though.
Well, that's your opinion. I guess it's best to leave the decision to
@ikonsgr
Ok, i suppose the best approach (in terms of cost, availability, software support and ease of implementation on ULIfAC II board) is to go for Dobbertin's smart watch.
Now, i took a look at the datasheet and it seems that only a handful of signals need connection to the board (since there will be no actual rom chip seated above, but instead use the rom board of ULIfAC to mount the required time-rom):
ds1216.jpg
According to this: https://pelrun.github.io/cpc-schematics/index.html ,and assuming that originally the adapter was seated on Amstrad's CPC upper rom socket of a rom board (e.g. like 40015 Amsdos Rom):
- DS1216 pin 27 (
WE) goes to 5v
- DS1216 pin 26 (VccB) goes to A13
- DS1216 pin 20 (
CE) goes to RomeEn of Expansion port
- DS1216 pin 22 (
OE) goes to a pin of ic210 (74LS132)
- DS1216 pin 1 (RST) goes to 5v
The rest pins are obvious (D0, A0, A2 and power supply).
I don't know if the above are correct, but my biggest concern is where should i connect the pin 22 (OE signal) of DS1216, maybe connect it to Gnd (always active)?
@GUNHED you seem to know a lot about this, hope you can help :)
Quote from: d_kef on 10:29, 03 April 25Quote from: GUNHED on 09:38, 03 April 25Just reading (writing) from (to) an address in the memory.
This of course means that you do need additional logic for paging in the RTC.
The only difference is that you take /MREQ into account instead of /IOREQ. But since the ULIFAC already has a ROM/RAM paging mechanism in place, it should be easier.
d_kef
I thought that this is done using RSX commands from the Time rom, so no extra logic would be needed. Also if extra logic is needed, how the original Dobbertin's RTC worked as it was consisted only from the DS1216 adapter+ time rom above?
Great choice!!! :) :) :)
Well, I still have the Source-Code of the Time-ROM, just in case you want to change / adapt / extend it or whatever :) :) :)
Also let me know if I can help in any way (software part). :) :) :)
Quote from: GUNHED on 12:04, 03 April 25Great choice!!! :) :) :)
Well, I still have the Source-Code of the Time-ROM, just in case you want to change / adapt / extend it or whatever :) :) :)
Also let me know if I can help in any way (software part). :) :) :)
Well, my needs are mostly hardware :D , as i need to know the exact connections of the DS1216 to Amstrad board, and also if an extra logic is needed, although from what it's noted here: https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Dobbertin_Smart_Watch ,the original Dobbertin's Smart watch didn't have any extra logic apart from the DS1216 and the time rom.
Quote from: ikonsgr on 11:49, 03 April 25I thought that this is done using RSX commands from the Time rom, so no extra logic would be needed. Also if extra logic is needed, how the original Dobbertin's RTC worked as it was consisted only from the DS1216 adapter+ time rom above?
My understanding is that you
MUST have also the TIMER ROM+ installed on top of the DS1216. The TIMER ROM and the DS1216 are both using the same ROM number.
When you want to access the RTC then you select the TIMER ROM, activate the CPC upper ROM and then you send an "activating sequence". As soon as the DS1216 gets the activating sequence it disables access to the ROM and you can read or write the 8 bytes of clock data. Otherwise you access the TIMER ROM data.
So back in the day the DS1216 and the ROM was just placed in an empty slot of your ROM board and you could use it imediately. If you don't have a physical ROM board (the case of ULIFAC) then you have to be creative....
d_kef
Looking at the SF2 chip more closely, it is not that rosy. The RTC chip is quite bloated: it has a square wave generator, an interrupt generator and many status registers.
And the Nova chip looks so nice, I have to admit. 32KB NVRAM for the CPC devs and a simple RTC with clean hardware access, even from Basic. No rom needed.
The TimerROM+ is mandatory for the Dobbertin to be used from Basic.
Quote from: Pollo on 13:27, 03 April 25The TimerROM+ is mandatory for the Dobbertin to be used from Basic.
Not only from Basic.
I think that detecting the ROM number of the TimeROM+ (the presence of the ROM itself) is the only way to know that the RTC is present and communicate with it.
Maybe
@GUNHED and
@Prodatron can confirm this.
d_kef
Ok then, can someone explain how exactly this disabling of time rom is done?
The Recognition Pattern noted: C5h, 3Ah, A3h, 5Ch, C5h, 3Ah, A3h, 5Ch
Are a sequence of reading time rom addresses at: C0C5h, CO3Ah, COA3h, CO5Ch, COC5h, CO3Ah, COA3h, CO5Ch ?
And when this happens the time rom is "disabled" and the DS1216 time chip is enabled by activating DS1216 CS signal ) and then you can access registers by read/write at any memory addresses having specific A0,A2 and D0 signals?
So is it right to assume that i have to treat the time chip like reading/writing to memory addresses instead of treating it as rom?
Quote from: d_kef on 12:14, 03 April 25When you want to access the RTC then you select the TIMER ROM, activate the CPC upper ROM and then you send an "activating sequence".
Does this practically means sequential reading of time rom at the specific 8 addresses of the pattern: C0C5h, CO3Ah, COA3h, CO5Ch, COC5h, CO3Ah, COA3h, CO5Ch?
Quote from: d_kef on 12:14, 03 April 25As soon as the DS1216 gets the activating sequence it disables access to the ROM and you can read or write the 8 bytes of clock data. Otherwise you access the TIMER ROM data.
How exactly you do that? Activate the CS signal of DS1216 for the next 8 memory reads/writes ( at any memory addresses having specific A0,A2 and D0 signals) and then disable it again?
According to the DS1216 datasheet:
QuoteCommunication with the SmartWatch RAM is established by pattern recognition on a serial bit stream of 64 bits that must be matched by executing 64 consecutive write cycles containing the proper data on DQ0. On the SmartWatch ROM, communication with the clock is established using A2 and A0, and either OE or CE. All accesses that occur prior to recognition of the 64-bit pattern are directed to memory. After the pattern match, the next 64 reads and/or writes are directed to the clock, and the RAM is disabled. Once the pattern is established, the next 64 read/write cycles will be directed to the RTC registers. When power is cycled, 64 reads should be executed prior to any writes to ensure that the RTC registers are not written. A pattern match is ignored if the RST bit is zero and the RST pin goes low during the match sequence. A pattern match is also terminated if a read occurs during the 64-bit match sequence.
and
QuoteCommunication with the SmartWatch is established by pattern recognition of a serial bit stream of 64 bits that must be matched by executing 64 consecutive write cycles, placing address bit A2 low with the proper data on address bit A0.
So you need to
read a byte from address #C000 in order to
write a 0 and read a byte from #C001 to write a 1. You do 64 reads for the 64 bits of the recognition pattern.
Fully working smart watch routines have been published by
@GUNHED here. (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Dobbertin_Smart_Watch:RTC_routines)
I tested them and work just fine with WinAPE emulator.
d_kef
Quote from: Pollo on 07:52, 03 April 25It is more convenient from an hardware standpoint.
But less convenient from a software standpoint.
You are right, it's more easy to read/write from the SF2 RTC compared to the Dobbertin. For the Dobbertin you have the additional ROM switches and these heavy bit-shiftings. That makes the code significant larger.
But as you won't request the RTC more often than every 50. frame this doesn't have a big impact.
Quote from: d_kef on 07:43, 04 April 25According to the DS1216 datasheet:
QuoteCommunication with the SmartWatch RAM is established by pattern recognition on a serial bit stream of 64 bits that must be matched by executing 64 consecutive write cycles containing the proper data on DQ0. On the SmartWatch ROM, communication with the clock is established using A2 and A0, and either OE or CE. All accesses that occur prior to recognition of the 64-bit pattern are directed to memory. After the pattern match, the next 64 reads and/or writes are directed to the clock, and the RAM is disabled. Once the pattern is established, the next 64 read/write cycles will be directed to the RTC registers. When power is cycled, 64 reads should be executed prior to any writes to ensure that the RTC registers are not written. A pattern match is ignored if the RST bit is zero and the RST pin goes low during the match sequence. A pattern match is also terminated if a read occurs during the 64-bit match sequence.
and
QuoteCommunication with the SmartWatch is established by pattern recognition of a serial bit stream of 64 bits that must be matched by executing 64 consecutive write cycles, placing address bit A2 low with the proper data on address bit A0.
So you need to read a byte from address #C000 in order to write a 0 and read a byte from #C001 to write a 1. You do 64 reads for the 64 bits of the recognition pattern.
Fully working smart watch routines have been published by @GUNHED here. (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Dobbertin_Smart_Watch:RTC_routines)
I tested them and work just fine with WinAPE emulator.
d_kef
Ok, but all these concern the "software" part of the process, my question is, from "low level" hardware perspective, how can this "64 bits of the recognition pattern" is implemented? For example, after initial activation of time rom, do i have to "observe" 64 rom reads in a row and if all these reads match the recognition pattern, then what? Disable time rom, and enable the DS1216 "CS" to activate it? And for how long? Perhaps for the next 64 sequential memory access and then deactivate DS1216 again?
Sory if i insist in this matter, but since i was never involved with RTC and adding new chips in ULIfAC II board requires a lot of time & effort to get the 1st dev board for testing, i would like to be "as sure as it can be" at least with the hardware design.
How the Dobbertin works is that you have to do 64 writes sequentially with the magic serial data in A0 to unlock the chip.
And then immediately do 64 reads sequentially to retrieve the 64 bits "packet" of time data in D0.
Then the chip locks itself and is again just a ROM.
Quote from: ikonsgr on 10:07, 04 April 25Quote from: d_kef on 07:43, 04 April 25According to the DS1216 datasheet:
QuoteCommunication with the SmartWatch RAM is established by pattern recognition on a serial bit stream of 64 bits that must be matched by executing 64 consecutive write cycles containing the proper data on DQ0. On the SmartWatch ROM, communication with the clock is established using A2 and A0, and either OE or CE. All accesses that occur prior to recognition of the 64-bit pattern are directed to memory. After the pattern match, the next 64 reads and/or writes are directed to the clock, and the RAM is disabled. Once the pattern is established, the next 64 read/write cycles will be directed to the RTC registers. When power is cycled, 64 reads should be executed prior to any writes to ensure that the RTC registers are not written. A pattern match is ignored if the RST bit is zero and the RST pin goes low during the match sequence. A pattern match is also terminated if a read occurs during the 64-bit match sequence.
and
QuoteCommunication with the SmartWatch is established by pattern recognition of a serial bit stream of 64 bits that must be matched by executing 64 consecutive write cycles, placing address bit A2 low with the proper data on address bit A0.
So you need to read a byte from address #C000 in order to write a 0 and read a byte from #C001 to write a 1. You do 64 reads for the 64 bits of the recognition pattern.
Fully working smart watch routines have been published by @GUNHED here. (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Dobbertin_Smart_Watch:RTC_routines)
I tested them and work just fine with WinAPE emulator.
d_kef
Ok, but all these concern the "software" part of the process, my question is, from "low level" hardware perspective, how can this "64 bits of the recognition pattern" is implemented? For example, after initial activation of time rom, do i have to "observe" 64 rom reads in a row and if all these reads match the recognition pattern, then what? Disable time rom, and enable the DS1216 "CS" to activate it? And for how long? Perhaps for the next 64 sequential memory access and then deactivate DS1216 again?
Sory if i insist in this matter, but since i was never involved with RTC and adding new chips in ULIfAC II board requires a lot of time & effort to get the 1st dev board for testing, i would like to be "as sure as it can be" at least with the hardware design.
From the hardware point of view it is just another ROM. You treat it exactly like, for example, a 27C128 EPROM. The only difference is that you can also write to the RTC.
27c128-ds1216.png
d_kef
And from an hardware point of view, you don't even need to care about the writes.
The Z80 will write to the RTC without performing a real write (POKE) operation.
Passing the magic data or writing to the RTC is all performed with PEEK and proper A2 and A0 signals.
That was the whole point of the device: you plug it on any ROM slot of any ROM board and voilà, you have an RTC.
Quote from: Pollo on 11:50, 04 April 25How the Dobbertin works is that you have to do 64 writes sequentially with the magic serial data in A0 to unlock the chip.
And then immediately do 64 reads sequentially to retrieve the 64 bits "packet" of time data in D0.
Then the chip locks itself and is again just a ROM.
And from an hardware point of view, you don't even need to care about the writes.
The Z80 will write to the RTC without performing a real write (POKE) operation.
Passing the magic data or writing to the RTC is all performed with PEEK and proper A2 and A0 signals.
That was the whole point of the device: you plug it on any ROM slot of any ROM board and voilà, you have an RTC.
If there is indeed an automatic deactivation of time chip upon 64 reads after activation (that need the specific 64 read pattern), that would make actual hardware design very easy!
If i get it right, if you have time rom installed in different place (and not upon DS1216 adapter), then the only actual pins of DS1216 you need to connect (for the time chip to work right), are: power supply, A0,A2 and D0, no OE, CS, or WE are actually needed for the time chip communication! Is that right?
If that's the case, then it would be very easy to add the DS1216 socket on ULIfAC II board (with only the above connections), and then i will need to develop the code on PIC mcu that will "deactivate" time rom (e.g. PIC MCU code will not return a byte from time rom upon rom reading) after receiving the 64 read pattern , and activate it again after 64 reads! ;)
That I cannot confirm. Keep in mind I am not an electronician.
I see that the DS1315 time chip uses 16pins and they must be there for a reason.
What I am sure is that from the software side, you only communicate with it using PEEK and using A2, A0 and D0 (with the ROM mapped and at addresses corresponding to where the ROM is mapped).
The /WE pin is there in case you want to mount a static RAM chip on top of the DS1216. According to the DS1216 datasheet this could be used as nonvolatile RAM. In our case it is irrelevant and should be tied (pulled-up) to 5V.
The only pins you need to drive is /CS and /OE and maybe you can have /CS permanently connected to GND and only use /OE. Or use /CS and connect /OE to Z80 /RD. A0, A2, D0 are normally connected to the CPC bus.
d_kef
Quote from: ikonsgr on 09:38, 05 April 25If i get it right, if you have time rom installed in different place (and not upon DS1216 adapter)
The time ROM needs to be on the same ROM slot as the time chip otherwise it won't work.
Ok, to establish the hardware design, i need to know how exactly the communication through software is done. So, if i get it right so far, the procedure is:
- Mount time rom in ULIfAC's rom board in slot X, Select the time rom slot (with OUT &DF00,X),enable upper rom (with OUT &7F00,Y), and then read any byte from time rom even from Basic using PEEK from &C000-&FFFF range.To enable access to time chip registers:
- Give 64 rom reads from &C000 or &C001 (e.g. PEEK(&C000) or PEEK(&C001) in Basic) in specific sequence, according to activation pattern. If any of the 64 reads is not "Correct" (according to activation pattern) then the hole procedure is reset.
- After successful activation you give another 64 "rom" reads to access time chip registers as follow:
PEEK(&C000) write bit '0'
PEEK(&C001) write bit '1'
PEEK(&C004) read bit from Data Bit 0
After that, the time chip is disabled, and you need to give again the 64 read pattern to re-enable access to time chip registers.
Can you confirm that this is right way to communicate with time rom and time chip?
Yep! That's it.
d_kef
Quote from: d_kef on 09:38, 06 April 25Yep! That's it.
d_kef
Ok, in that case you don't need any of the CS, OE, WR signals, and since DS1216 has both build-in crystal and lithium battery, practically you just need to connect DS1216's A0,A2,D0 and power supply, right?
Now, instead of needing to mount Time Rom from a rom file each time you boot Amstrad CPC, i'm thinking of including Time Rom chip in MCU program memory, and access it exactly like with Amsdos emulation on CPC 464. Of course all the needed activation/deactivation functions will be done through PIC mcu code too, so apart from DS1216, nothing extra will be needed ;)
The only... "disadvantage" of this approach will be the somewhat slower access to time rom, affecting all reads from time rom (read/write access to time chip after activation, can be done in ~1uS time frame for every bit, thus avoid any speed penalty), but from what i understand, all software supporting RTC (symbos, CP/M, future OS etc), communicate with time rom/chip every second, so i don't think that a few dozens uSec delay per second, will affect that actual running speed of the OS, right?
It is true that that you can access the Dobbertin RTC in Basic without using the RSX, and using the PEEK method instead.
It is just that it will be very cumbersome.
I suggest you try to do so in WinAPE, so that you are sure you have understood how it works. WinAPE can emulate the Dobbertin RTC.
Quote from: ikonsgr on 10:38, 06 April 25in that case you don't need any of the CS, OE, WR signals,
I don't think you can get away with this so easily.
from the datasheet
QuoteThe SmartWatch uses the VCC, data I/O 0, CE, OE, and WE for RAM and watch control. All other pins are passed straight through to the socket receptacle.
and
Quotecommunication with the clock is established using A2 and A0, and either OE or CE.
It is highly improbable to accidentally send the activating sequence, but not impossible. So I'd stay on the safe side and enable the RTC only when reading from or writing to it.
edit: maybe it is safe to tie /CS to the CPC /ROMEN.
d_kef
Quote from: d_kef on 11:21, 06 April 25Quote from: ikonsgr on 10:38, 06 April 25in that case you don't need any of the CS, OE, WR signals,
I don't think you can get away with this so easily.
from the datasheet
QuoteThe SmartWatch uses the VCC, data I/O 0, CE, OE, and WE for RAM and watch control. All other pins are passed straight through to the socket receptacle.
and
Quotecommunication with the clock is established using A2 and A0, and either OE or CE.
It is highly improbable to accidentally send the activating sequence, but not impossible. So I'd stay on the safe side and enable the RTC only when reading from or writing to it.
d_kef
I've read this too, but practically all the communication process (activation and access registers of time chip) doesn't seem to involve any of CS,OE, WR signals! Since read/write mode is specifically determined from A2 state ('1' or '0') and A0/D0 are used for getting the write/read bit, any other signals seemed to be irrelevant, at least for the special serial communication with time chip .
Anyway, it seems that WR is not required at all, so if i connect CS to "romen" and OE to NOT A2 i think it will ensure that both of these signals are properly active upon serial communication, don't you think?
btw,
@d_kef did you look at "PATTERN MATCH—ROM" section of DS1216 datasheet? None of the OE,CS,WR are mentioned there... ::)
Also i noticed that prior to 64 activation rom reads (which are actually writes for the time chip...), you need to give a PEEK(&C004):
" Prior to executing the first of 64 write cycles, a read cycle should be executed by holding A2 high."
Quote from: ikonsgr on 12:31, 06 April 25btw, @d_kef did you look at "PATTERN MATCH—ROM" section of DS1216 datasheet? None of the OE,CS,WR are mentioned there... ::)
Also i noticed that prior to 64 activation rom reads (which are actually writes for the time chip...), you need to give a PEEK(&C004): " Prior to executing the first of 64 write cycles, a read cycle should be executed by holding A2 high."
True. So you just have to try it...
d_kef
Indeed, i took a look at the READ/WRITE timing diagrams too ,and the sure thing is that CS must be always active upon READ/WRITE, so i will connect it to Romen as you suggested. Also, it seems that when you are in "Rom-smart watch" mode, the WR can be always inactive-high, and OE must be active on READ and also can be active on WRITE... ::)
Taking as granded that the DS1216 was placed in a standard ROM board slot back in the day it is safe to asume that /WE is not needed.
Furthermore the timing diagram refers to /WE(RAM) so it could be write to the piggibacked nonvolatile RAM. It is confusing though.
Having tested this code (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Dobbertin_Smart_Watch:RTC_routines)I'd say that /CS=/ROMEN and /OE=/RD is enough for it to work.
In order to be 100% sure that you don't need to drive /CS only when the specific ROM is enabled you need to know how existing software like SymbOS and FutureOS is detecting the presence of the RTC. If they just detect the TIMEROM+ ROM (the most obvious method) then you can do /CS=/ROMEN.
d_kef
Quote from: d_kef on 13:41, 06 April 25Taking as granded that the DS1216 was placed in a standard ROM board slot back in the day it is safe to asume that /WE is not needed.
Furthermore the timing diagram refers to /WE(RAM) so it could be write to the piggibacked nonvolatile RAM. It is confusing though.
Having tested this code (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Dobbertin_Smart_Watch:RTC_routines)I'd say that /CS=/ROMEN and /OE=/RD is enough for it to work.
d_kef
I agree,for start, i will go for this pinout and we'll see how it goes :)
Btw, for testing RTC, i suppose i could use the rsx commands of time rom or maybe symbos to see if it is recognized correctly as dobbertin RTC ,right?
Thanks again for all your help ;)
A little more open eyes and everything becomes clear!!!
DS1216B/C/D/H are intrrnally configured for piggyback RAM.
DS1216E/F are internally configured for piggyback ROM. So the Dobbertin Smart Watch is a DS1216E in which case /WE is not connected internally to anything.
See the application note (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/imgs/e/e5/DS1216-app-note-52.pdf) for a good explanation and make sure you order a DS1216E for your tests.
d_kef
@ikonsgr looking at this thread I just realized that we hijacked it.
Maybe it is better to move the recent posts to another thread.
d_kef
Quote from: d_kef on 12:14, 03 April 25Quote from: ikonsgr on 11:49, 03 April 25I thought that this is done using RSX commands from the Time rom, so no extra logic would be needed. Also if extra logic is needed, how the original Dobbertin's RTC worked as it was consisted only from the DS1216 adapter+ time rom above?
My understanding is that you MUST have also the TIMER ROM+ installed on top of the DS1216. The TIMER ROM and the DS1216 are both using the same ROM number.
When you want to access the RTC then you select the TIMER ROM, activate the CPC upper ROM and then you send an "activating sequence". As soon as the DS1216 gets the activating sequence it disables access to the ROM and you can read or write the 8 bytes of clock data. Otherwise you access the TIMER ROM data.
So back in the day the DS1216 and the ROM was just placed in an empty slot of your ROM board and you could use it imediately. If you don't have a physical ROM board (the case of ULIFAC) then you have to be creative....
d_kef
No, the ROM is not necessary. It contains software for for the clock support. But you can also have your own driver of 30 to 50 bytes of code only.
Quote from: Pollo on 13:27, 03 April 25Looking at the SF2 chip more closely, it is not that rosy. The RTC chip is quite bloated: it has a square wave generator, an interrupt generator and many status registers.
And the Nova chip looks so nice, I have to admit. 32KB NVRAM for the CPC devs and a simple RTC with clean hardware access, even from Basic. No rom needed.
The TimerROM+ is mandatory for the Dobbertin to be used from Basic.
Dobbertin RTC: No, you can use your own RSX if you like
Quote from: Pollo on 11:58, 05 April 25Quote from: ikonsgr on 09:38, 05 April 25If i get it right, if you have time rom installed in different place (and not upon DS1216 adapter)
The time ROM needs to be on the same ROM slot as the time chip otherwise it won't work.
No, the Time-ROM can be on another ROM-select. I have them on different places.
Quote from: GUNHED on 20:48, 06 April 25Quote from: Pollo on 11:58, 05 April 25Quote from: ikonsgr on 09:38, 05 April 25If i get it right, if you have time rom installed in different place (and not upon DS1216 adapter)
The time ROM needs to be on the same ROM slot as the time chip otherwise it won't work.
No, the Time-ROM can be on another ROM-select. I have them on different places.
Oh, I didn't know that. So the Time-ROM is smarter than I thought. Good to know.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005599946979.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.1.42232434xv88o2&algo_pvid=833a98b7-427e-4f04-b368-7b5e3198c487&algo_exp_id=833a98b7-427e-4f04-b368-7b5e3198c487-0&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22order%22%3A%221%22%2C%22eval%22%3A%221%22%7D&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21EUR%215.89%215.42%21%21%216.37%215.87%21%402103890917439807865454432e95cc%2112000033704388121%21sea%21GR%213746394506%21X&curPageLogUid=f94RXkIepYIp&utparam-url=scene%3Asearch%7Cquery_from%3A ;D
Quote from: d_kef on 13:41, 06 April 25In order to be 100% sure that you don't need to drive /CS only when the specific ROM is enabled you need to know how existing software like SymbOS is detecting the presence of the RTC. If they just detect the TIMEROM+ ROM (the most obvious method) then you can do /CS=/ROMEN.
SymbOS is searching for the TIME.SET RSX command. It will then use this ROM.
Ok, to sum up, from what i understand, the Dobbetin Smart Watch must be the oldest RTC for CPC, and thus, it is supported by all available OS for CPC (Symbos, FutureOS, CP/M) and also provide RSX commands for direct use in Basic.
Fortunately, although the RTC DS1216E module used is obsolete, you can still find it today, in apparently large quantities and quite cheap too: https://vi.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-DS1216E.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.search.0
My only concern is that, as most of these DS1216 modules can be many years old, if this can affect the internal lithium battery and cant' retain time/date when Amstrad is off. ::)
Anyway, i've decided to add RTC support for ULIfAC by adding the DS1216E module, as from hardware point of view it's the easiest, and maybe the cheaper way to do it, as it doesn't need extra Logic, external Crystal or external backup battery like other solutions. Of course, support for the required Time Rom and activation function, will be done by software through ULIfAC's PIC MCU.
So, you think that this is a good choice? :)
I would go for the Nova personally, as just thinking about the Dobbertin gives me some headache :)
(https://www.cpcwiki.eu/imgs/1/1f/9pzyao.jpg)
Quote from: Pollo on 12:31, 07 April 25I would go for the Nova personally, as just thinking about the Dobbertin gives me some headache :)
(https://www.cpcwiki.eu/imgs/1/1f/9pzyao.jpg)
Well, if you just take a look here: https://www.cpcwiki.eu/imgs/d/dd/Nova_cpc_nvram.pdf
Then, it will be ME having a.... NOVA RTC headache! :laugh:
Seriously, this might be a very nice RTC implementation, but unfortunately all these modern RTC that use IORQ and require full 16bit address decoding and 8bit data bus, need quite much extra logic to implement it (if you check the thread a few pages before, you will see that initially, i wanted to go for an emulation of SYMBiFACE_II RTC using about the same RTC design as NOVA board, but it ended up needing quite a few extra ic's too).
If we are talking for a dedicative RTC board then this might not be an issue, but here, we are talking for adding RTC support to a multi function card that already is quite complex (as ULIfAC offers mass storage, wifi, rom board, ram expansion, C3 RAM configuration support for CPC 464...), so we need a solution with the least extra hardware needed ;)
Btw, for your headache, check this:
https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Dobbertin_Smart_Watch:RTC_routines
Ready made routines to ease your... pain :D
Quote from: ikonsgr on 13:41, 07 April 25Btw, for your headache, check this:
https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Dobbertin_Smart_Watch:RTC_routines
Ready made routines to ease your... pain :D
TBH this code looks like a headache indeed, you can see very good how strange you have to access this ;D
Anyway Pollo is right about, that Nova and SF2 is easier to implement on software side (you save about half of the code compared to Dobbertin).
I don't agree about the better software support for the Dobbertin. There maybe no CP/M driver for the others, but that is 1.) trivial to do and 2.) noone will care about this anyway.
But I fully understand, if it's easier for Ikonsgr to implement the Dobbertin, than it's just cool that he adds an RTC to the Ulifac at all.
For me it doesn't matter, in SymbOS all these RTCs are supported anyway, and the crazy CPU usage just for requesting the time is at not a dealbreaker at the end, as it only happens every 50 frames.
If I had to rank them from the easier to the most complex to program:
1) SF2 ++ detection, ++reading/writing
2) SF3 ++ detection, +reading/writing
3) NOVA -detection (paging in/out RAM), -reading/writing (paging in/out RAM)
4) M4 --detection (ROM walk), -reading (paging in/out ROM), no writing
5) Dobbertin --detection (ROM walk), --reading/writing (paging in/out ROM, send enable sequence, bitstream using A0, A2, D0)
Of course there is no real problem with any of them and from the hardware point of view you should do whatever is more convenient and cost efficient.
Quote from: Prodatron on 14:02, 07 April 25There maybe no CP/M driver for the others
Not a driver per se, but you can always use RTC.COM (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/dlattach/?attach=44887) to update CP/M from RTC or RTC from CP/M. It supports all 5 RTCs above.
d_kef
Quote from: d_kef on 14:16, 07 April 25If I had to rank them from the easier to the most complex to program:
1) SF2 ++ detection, ++reading/writing
2) SF3 ++ detection, +reading/writing
3) NOVA -detection (paging in/out RAM), -reading/writing (paging in/out RAM)
4) M4 --detection (ROM walk), -reading (paging in/out ROM), no writing
5) Dobbertin --detection (ROM walk), --reading/writing (paging in/out ROM, send enable sequence, bitstream using A0, A2, D0)
I fully agree to this.
Quote from: d_kef on 14:16, 07 April 25you can always use RTC.COM (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/dlattach/?attach=44887) to update CP/M from RTC or RTC from CP/M. It supports all 5 RTCs above.
Thanks a lot for this tool! So there is indeed software support for CP/M as well :)
By the way, is there a TIMEROM+ manual?
I can't find it anywhere. The .DSK at the wiki page contains a TIMEROM+.DOC file but it's about the TIMEROM+.COM utility for CP/M.
I'm struggling with some of the RSXs and I can't find the correct syntax.
d_kef
Quote from: d_kef on 15:48, 07 April 25By the way, is there a TIMEROM+ manual?
I can't find it anywhere. The .DSK at the wiki page contains a TIMEROM+.DOC file but it's about the TIMEROM+.COM utility for CP/M.
I'm struggling with some of the RSXs and I can't find the correct syntax.
d_kef
EXACTLY my thoughts! I put time rom+ on winape to test it, and it took me 15 minutes to figure out how to get time using the rsx command! :laugh:
It's really rather weird, first you set a string variable (at a min of 8-9 space characters), and then you pass it as argument to the |TIME rsx command:
a$=" ":|time,a$:print a$
This will give you the time on basic prompt. Exactly the same goes for DATE. Although weird, maybe it does make sense, if you think that main usage of getting date/time will be mostly as a string variable used in programs, and not just getting it at basic prompt ;D
Anyway, apart from getting date/time (and the bigwatch), i couldn't manage to do anything else, like stop clock or set date/time to different values. I tried to use the same method to pass time as argument with SET.TIME, but although it seemed to work (no error upon executing rsx command), reading again time, gave me the real time and not the one i set. Maybe this is due to partial implementation of RTC in winape? ::)
Anyway, it would be very useful to have a mini guide on how to use the various rsx commands
Quote from: ikonsgr on 17:01, 07 April 25Anyway, apart from getting date/time (and the bigwatch), i couldn't manage to do anything else, like stop clock or set date/time to different values. I tried to use the same method to pass time as argument with SET.TIME, but although it seemed to work (no error upon executing rsx command), reading again time, gave me the real time and not the one i set. Maybe this is due to partial implementation of RTC in winape? ::)
Yes, emulators generally don't implement setting time. The RTC emulation is only there for retrieving time from the host computer.
WinApe doesn't like some ROMs, especially German ROMs like X-DDOS and TIMEROM. As pointed out before, emulators are not usable for checking RTC related software.
The TIMEROM RSX can be shown by any ROM (MAXAM, X-DDOS etc.) which provide the !HELP,rom-number RSX.
More precise information is in the TIMEROM ROM manual... or have a look into the great English manual from
@dxs here...