The MultiPlay allow to add two controllers on the expansion port.
It is easy to use them from BASIC, with the INP() command.
[attachimg=1]
Each controller port can be set with two inputs modes:
- AMS = Amstrad joystick and GX4000 gamepad
- AMI = Amiga joystick / mouse (and compatible)
Each mouse sensitivity is 200dpi / 4bit acceleration. (DK'Tronics mouse is 50dpi / 1bit)
Last but not least: Left, Middle and Right buttons are supported.
50Hz games support w/o conflict. It is handled like arcade machines!
You can preorder from CPC Boards (http://www.centpourcent.net/store/c5/CPC_Boards.html) ! 8)
Now, we need Lemmings and North & South hacked games. :P
was there a link to a web page to purchase ?
Quote from: cpc4eva on 20:35, 15 May 16
was there a link to a web page to purchase ?
I will have to add it to centpourcent.net ... ;D
Quote from: TotO on 18:29, 15 May 16
The MultiPlay allow to add two controllers on the expansion port.
It is easy to use them from BASIC, with the INP() command.
[attachimg=1]
Each controller port can be set with two inputs modes:
- AMS = Amstrad joystick and GX4000 gamepad
- AMI = Amiga joystick / mouse (and compatible)
Each mouse sensitivity is 200dpi / 4bit acceleration. (DK'Tronics mouse is 50dpi / 1bit)
Last but not least: Left, Middle and Right buttons are supported.
50Hz games support w/o conflict. It is handled like arcade machines!
Now, we need Lemmings and North & South hacked games. :P
Great. Will work with a atari st mouse? And with an Amigausb-db9 adapter?
An USB to DB9 adapter should work if it is OK with an Amiga. (untested actually)
The choice was made to support natively the Amiga mouse, because it is more easy to find.
So, Atari ST mouse require a "ST to Amiga" adapter to properly work.
I bought one of these: Amiga mouse on eBay (http://www.ebay.de/itm/301932161319)
I already have a Atari ST mouse.
What do you think of this adapter?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AMIGA-MOUSE-TO-ATARI-ST-ATARI-ST-MOUSE-TO-AMIGA-ADAPTER-CONVERTER-/121984327992 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AMIGA-MOUSE-TO-ATARI-ST-ATARI-ST-MOUSE-TO-AMIGA-ADAPTER-CONVERTER-/121984327992)
Quote from: angelcaio on 10:49, 16 May 16
I already have a Atari ST mouse.
What do you think of this adapter?
AMIGA MOUSE TO ATARI ST / ATARI ST MOUSE TO AMIGA ADAPTER CONVERTER | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AMIGA-MOUSE-TO-ATARI-ST-ATARI-ST-MOUSE-TO-AMIGA-ADAPTER-CONVERTER-/121984327992)
The difference between Atari and Amiga mouse is the horizontal/vertical sensors pinout.
You only need to swap the 4 related pins and it seem what this adapter is doing ;)
Quote from: TotO on 18:29, 15 May 16
The MultiPlay allow to add two controllers on the expansion port.
It is easy to use them from BASIC, with the INP() command.
[attachimg=1]
Each controller port can be set with two inputs modes:
- AMS = Amstrad joystick and GX4000 gamepad
- AMI = Amiga joystick / mouse (and compatible)
Each mouse sensitivity is 200dpi / 4bit acceleration. (DK'Tronics mouse is 50dpi / 1bit)
Last but not least: Left, Middle and Right buttons are supported.
50Hz games support w/o conflict. It is handled like arcade machines!
Now, we need Lemmings and North & South hacked games. :P
Super cool board, I will buy one for sure. Problem is that we need a Mother X4 with more ports, something like a Mother X8 :D Mother of God.
And Then an 800 Watt PC Power Supply, Small refrigerated cubicle Etc---
Ray
Quote from: angelcaio on 10:49, 16 May 16
I already have a Atari ST mouse.
What do you think of this adapter?
AMIGA MOUSE TO ATARI ST / ATARI ST MOUSE TO AMIGA ADAPTER CONVERTER | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AMIGA-MOUSE-TO-ATARI-ST-ATARI-ST-MOUSE-TO-AMIGA-ADAPTER-CONVERTER-/121984327992)
As gerald said, I think it does the job by swapping the required pins. 8)
Quote from: ||C|-|E|| on 12:13, 16 May 16Super cool board, I will buy one for sure.
Problem is that we need a Mother X4 with more ports, something like a Mother X8 :D Mother of God.
Madre!!! ;D
My actual configuration is:
- X-MEM / X-MASS on slots 0 and 1
- MultiPlay / PlayCity on slots 2 and 3
Since I have the HxC / X-MASS, the MiniBooster is not really used at home.
To free space, may be I should release a MotherX2 special board for players, featuring:
- MultiPlay / Playcity slots
- Cartridge slot
Quote from: TotO on 12:53, 16 May 16
To free space, may be I should release a MotherX2 special board for players, featuring:
- MultiPlay / Playcity slots
- Cartridge slot
What about an X-MESS ;D (merged xmem/xmass)
Quote from: gerald on 13:06, 16 May 16
What about an X-MESS ;D (merged xmem/xmass)
Sure, it is an idea. ;D (and sound better than X-MAME)
Definitely interested in buying one of these boards from you Tot0. Just got to wait for some money to come through first...
I also want one. ;D
Ordered & paid ;D .
Ordered & Paid too :D
Ordered and paid here as well! :D
Quick noob question ( please hold your tomatoes 8) ):
for the extra joystick port , software has to be specifically written to support it?
old titles need to be patched ?
On a side note , I was wondering if some people here were powering their MX4 with a usb power supply and adapter ?
( I think I lack power, that's why I have erratic behavior with xmas xmess + joy plugged in ) .
I presume: if it works as a joystick can be used as a mouse with SymbOS or Art studio. Is this correct?
Quote from: trabitboy on 15:29, 17 May 16
Quick noob question ( please hold your tomatoes 8) ):
for the extra joystick port , software has to be specifically written to support it?
old titles need to be patched ?
On a side note , I was wondering if some people here were powering their MX4 with a usb power supply and adapter ?
( I think I lack power, that's why I have erratic behavior with xmas xmess + joy plugged in ) .
Regarding the PSU, you should power the computer and the X4 with the same power supply. You can just split the output and connect a wire to the computer and another to the board, provided that the PSU is powerful enough :) .
Orderer and pay too.
Ordered and Paid as well.
When you say "The board require new programs to be used. Not compatible with old UnPatched games.".
Does that mean all of the "Games" have to be patched (Thousands) ?
Thanks Ray
Quote from: Audronic on 00:27, 18 May 16
Ordered and Paid as well.
When you say "The board require new programs to be used. Not compatible with old UnPatched games.".
Does that mean all of the "Games" have to be patched (Thousands) ?
Thanks Ray
Yes, all games need to be patched that want to use the interface.
But games will continue to work with the built in cpc joystick ;)
So it makes sense to patch two player games like gauntlet, barbarian where clashes would happen between joysticks on normal cpc.
And it makes sense to add mouse support to games and programs that could benefit from it.
No need to patch every game!
Yes. It is exactly that. 8)
That should allow to play up to 4 players too.
By the way, we are thinking about a Firmware update that should allow to natively support the "MultiPlayCity" combo and use them transparently.
So BASIC and programs using the system will be automaticly retro-compatible by doing nothing more.
Must be time to make the two demonstration MultiPlay compatible games available, so I'll present them here.
First up is a modified version of the Megablasters anniversary game with a third "multiplay" control option. This allows both players to use joystick or pads, but both players must be using controllers on the multiplay ports, and both controllers will need at least two fire buttons, there's no keyboard option to detonate bombs manually with this option.
Second is a little 4 player light cycle game called QuadRaster. It is 4 player only. Player 1 must use internal joystick port, player 3 & 4 the multiplay ports. Player 2 has a choice of keyboard or joystick, but the joystick option is only going to work correctly with an appropriate splitter. During play you can hold fire to go twice as fast. I wasnt able to test this one myself, so thanks go to TotO and Mr Lou for the feedback on this game. :)
Wow, that is just in time :)
Great to see that!
@TotO (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=290): Is the board CPCplus compatible?
The MultiPlay must work on all CPC and PLUS.
Hi! Tried to order using Chrome(1) or Explorer(2) using WinXP. But it doesn't work (1, security risc. 2, errors on page). Any idea what to do? (Will try on my laptop tomorrow).
Quote from: TFM on 20:45, 23 May 16
Hi! Tried to order using Chrome(1) or Explorer(2) using WinXP. But it doesn't work (1, security risc. 2, errors on page). Any idea what to do? (Will try on my laptop tomorrow).
No idea at all... :-X
Send me an email withyour wishlist! 8)
Done! Will be fun to have real 4 Player games now! :) And even 2 Player games can get a nice speed up! :)
so does that mean if i play CPC ping pong from Konami / Imagine that if i use this device i will be able to play against a friend with a joystick ?
Actually, all old games require to be patched.
With a Firmware update, games using the routines or BASIC may natively work.
Today, two Axelay games (MegaBlaster and QuadRasters) and one Mr_Lu game are compatible.
Quote from: TotO on 09:19, 25 May 16
Actually, all old games require to be patched.
With a Firmware update, games using the routines or BASIC may natively work.
Today, two Axelay games (MegaBlaster and QuadRasters) and one Mr_Lu game are compatible.
Further. Other software , such as Art Studio, could also work with a mouse with more resolution?
Enviado desde mi H60-L04 mediante Tapatalk
Yes, if properly patched it should provide a better accuraty.
The expansion was designed to allow 1 or 2 players games using Amiga JOY/MOUSE.
So I can't guaranty that will be a must have for drawing. (untested)
Thanks, but really i ask for the update of the firmware that you say. Anyway, how i can to patch a program? like Art studio, for example.
Quote from: angelcaio on 11:46, 25 May 16
Thanks, but really i ask for the update of the firmware that you say. Anyway, how i can to patch a program? like Art studio, for example.
That's actually pretty simple. Instead of calling an OS routine you patch it into two simple instructions:
LD BC,TotOs_joystick_and_mouse_port_1
IN A,(BC)
And A has all the nice little direction and fire button bits.
Yay. Multiplay ordered.
Quote from: TFM on 18:46, 25 May 16
That's actually pretty simple. Instead of calling an OS routine you patch it into two simple instructions:
LD BC,TotOs_joystick_and_mouse_port_1
IN A,(BC)
And A has all the nice little direction and fire button bits.
Is it enough to manage the acceleration?
It is not, because the joystick (and AMX/DK'Tronics) return only 1bit value.
The MultiPlay mice return 4bit values.
F990 : 0321RLDU : Input A, joystick and buttons
F991 : 0321RLDU : Input B, joystick and buttons
F992 : 0000XXXX : Input A, mouse X
F993 : 0000YYYY : Input A, mouse Y
F994 : 0000XXXX : Input B, mouse X
F995 : 0000YYYY : Input B, mouse Y
Quote from: TotO on 13:39, 27 May 16
It is not, because the joystick (and AMX/DK'Tronics) return only 1bit value.
The MultiPlay mice return 4bit values.
F990 : 0321RLDU : Input A, joystick and buttons
F991 : 0321RLDU : Input B, joystick and buttons
F992 : 0000XXXX : Input A, mouse X
F993 : 0000YYYY : Input A, mouse Y
F994 : 0000XXXX : Input B, mouse X
F995 : 0000YYYY : Input B, mouse Y
Questions:
- is f990 used for buttons for Mouse A and f991 used for buttons for Mouse B?
In this case is it 123 used or?
- And what is read from F996,F997?
YES! Buttons 1, 2, 3 are the same for joystick and mouse input A/B.
F996 and F997 ports are unused.
About usages:
- Reading from BASIC with 50Hz interrupt is fine to handle a fast char pointer with acceleration.
- Reading from ASM with 300Hz interrupt is fine to handle a fast pixel pointer with acceleration.
Quote from: khaz on 12:50, 27 May 16
Is it enough to manage the acceleration?
I don't know. But I guess yes, since IMHO it's all joystick compatible.
Quote from: TotO on 13:39, 27 May 16
It is not, because the joystick (and AMX/DK'Tronics) return only 1bit value.
The MultiPlay mice return 4bit values.
F990 : 0321RLDU : Input A, joystick and buttons
F991 : 0321RLDU : Input B, joystick and buttons
F992 : 0000XXXX : Input A, mouse X
F993 : 0000YYYY : Input A, mouse Y
F994 : 0000XXXX : Input B, mouse X
F995 : 0000YYYY : Input B, mouse Y
Mouse register X/Y return the offset since the last read. These are 4 bit value with sign extension.
Note also that the X/Y value will saturate if not read for a long time (or if the movement is fast). It will never overflow or wrap.
From a software point of view, just read the port and add its value to your position variable ;)
Quote from: gerald on 16:28, 27 May 16
From a software point of view, just read the port and add its value to your position variable ;)
Won't work with negative values since bits 7-4 are always zero. Right?
Quote from: TFM on 16:38, 27 May 16
Won't work with negative values since bits 7-4 are always zero. Right?
No :D
The 4 values are sign extended to 8 bit, so negative value will have bit7-4 at one. In fact bit 7-4 = bit 3
Just consider them as signed 8 bit, they will just stay between
-15 and 14 -16 and 15
Exactly. I have answered a bit too fast. :-\
Quote from: gerald on 16:45, 27 May 16
No :D
The 4 values are sign extended to 8 bit, so negative value will have bit7-4 at one. In fact bit 7-4 = bit 3
Just consider them as signed 8 bit, they will just stay between -15 and 14
Thanks!!! That's super awesome! So actually this device need no drivers, it's 100% ready to go. :) :) :)
Now all we need is a nice list of compatible mouses / proportional joysticks. :) :) :)
EDIT: Just checked the net: Amiga mice are really expensive, it there an cheaper alternative?
EDIT: Also... it there a 3 button mouse we can use? (For hacking AMX Stop Press).
Preordered and got the right shipping in the end :)
20 boards was pre-ordered since. 10 was built. 5 was already sent! :)
Actually, I'm waiting parts for the next pre-orders...
is it likely that MultiPlay MX4 will work with AtariVox+ ?
AtariVox+ Speech Synthesizer (https://atariage.com/store/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1045)
No, it was made to support controllers input not expansions output.
YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE,
I have sent the first MultiPlay boards.
Please, note that you have to take care when you insert the controllers plugs into the MultiPlay connectors.
Some molded plugs (not all) require to force and should damage the board if you not take care about that...
Hold them firmly between fingers when you plug your controllers, CPC turned off.
(from my side, I have done my best with double soldering and strong glue)
THANK YOU.
Quote from: TotO on 16:11, 01 June 16
YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE,
I have sent the first MultiPlay boards.
Please, note that you have to take care when you insert the controllers plugs into the MultiPlay connectors.
Some molded plugs (not all) require to force and should damage the board if you not take care about that...
Hold them firmly between fingers when you plug your controllers, CPC turned off.
(from my side, I have done my best with double soldering and strong glue)
THANK YOU.
Please use a short cable adapter / cable extension: You plug it into the MultiPlay only once, but can exchange the joysticks as you wish. :)
Overpriced example:
3M 3 Metre 9ft 10" 9 Pin D Sub Male to Female Serial Data Extension Cable | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/3M-3-METRE-9FT-10-9-PIN-D-SUB-MALE-TO-FEMALE-SERIAL-DATA-EXTENSION-CABLE-/311061017317?hash=item486cae72e5:g:Is8AAOSwGvhT7haU)
Should be fine if it cost not more than MultiPlay itself! :D
Just take care to not use a serial cable but a full 9 pins wired D-SUB.
EDIT:
I should build them fast and not expensive using 9-pins ribbon cable... I will let you know!
Having the MultiPlay on the MX8 in a box needs this kind of cables anyway. ;)
Shipment of MultiPlay safely arrived.
Thanks a lot TotO :)
Hi guys! Since some of you have gotten the first boards, could you do an easy experiment for me please?
When having the MultiPlay connected and other hardware, please do in BASIC:
? inp(&F990),inp(&F991)
And tell the result? Please tell also the CPC model you use and which other hardware you got on the expansion port.
Why do I ask? I want to see if there is interference between MutliPlay and other hardware. (I know there is on one case). Thank you!!! :)
Mine arrived yesterday. Thank you
Mine arrived too! Great!
@arnoldemu (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=122) , @Devilmarkus (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=93) , @Executioner (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=17) , @Lone (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=886) (alphabetically sorted) : Guys we do need emulator support for the wonderful MultiPlay. Should be super easy to implement this one (compared to other expansion cards). :) :) :)
Don't forget @mahlemiut, as he done a great PlayCity emulation into MESS. 8)
Well, never got MESS running on my hardware, but will give it a new try in soon. :)
Mine's arrived, thank you :) <3
Quote from: TFM on 19:37, 10 June 16
@arnoldemu (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=122) , @Devilmarkus (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=93) , @Executioner (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=17) , @Lone (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=886) (alphabetically sorted) : Guys we do need emulator support for the wonderful MultiPlay. Should be super easy to implement this one (compared to other expansion cards). :) :) :)
Arnold has had multiplay emulation since January I believe (excluding mouse which I'll be adding in the next release).
Quote from: TFM on 17:30, 06 June 16
When having the MultiPlay connected and other hardware, please do in BASIC:
? inp(&F990),inp(&F991)
3 0
Schneider CPC 664 / MotherX4 / X-MASS / X-MEM / MultiPlay MX4 (Amiga mouse connected on first port)
First value changes when moving the mouse. Little mouse test:
10 ? INP(&F990),INP(&F991)
20 GOTO 10
Looks good so far :) ...oh wouldn't that be nice to have a proper mouse in SymbOS
Quote from: Poliander on 19:55, 15 June 16
3 0
Schneider CPC 664 / MotherX4 / X-MASS / X-MEM / MultiPlay MX4 (Amiga mouse connected on first port)
First value changes when moving the mouse. Little mouse test:
Oh WoW! Are you sure to have the switch set to "Joystick" and not to "Mouse". According to @TotO (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=290) the port &F990 shall not provide values for the mouse, only for the joystick!
Thanks a lot for testing! :)
Quote from: TFM on 21:22, 15 June 16
Oh WoW! Are you sure to have the switch set to "Joystick" and not to "Mouse". According to @TotO (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=290) the port &F990 shall not provide values for the mouse, only for the joystick!
Thanks a lot for testing! :)
joystick and mouse uses the same connector, so what you see on the joystick port is the quadrature signal from the mouse. The dedicated mouse I/O is the result of decoding these signals
Quote from: gerald on 15:59, 16 June 16
joystick and mouse uses the same connector, so what you see on the joystick port is the quadrature signal from the mouse. The dedicated mouse I/O is the result of decoding these signals
Are you sure? This was posted before (Mouses only transfer buttons to F990, but not lower 4 bits). Can somebody please explain that.
Quote from: TotO on 13:39, 27 May 16
F990 : 0321RLDU : Input A, joystick and buttons
F991 : 0321RLDU : Input B, joystick and buttons
F992 : 0000XXXX : Input A, mouse X
F993 : 0000YYYY : Input A, mouse Y
F994 : 0000XXXX : Input B, mouse X
F995 : 0000YYYY : Input B, mouse Y
Sure, gerald is right. The board can't know that you are using a mouse "as joystick" by reading the wrong port.
So, only plug joysticks while you read &F990, &F991 ... And mouse for others.
Quote from: TotO on 16:57, 16 June 16
Sure, gerald is right. The board can't know that you are using a mouse "as joystick" by reading the wrong port.
So, only plug joysticks while you read &F990, &F991 ... And mouse for others.
So it's also possible to update the mouse registers with joystick directions? :)
And you can put a DVD into a CD player... The result will be just not as expected. :-\
Differents address ports exist, because joysticks and mice are plugged to the same connector but not use the same electronic to work.
Ok, I see. The data at F990 is a kind of shaddow from the mouse data. Thought there might be a switch on the board to select. but I will see as soon as I will have my unit.
Is there a way to tell from software side if the connected hardware is a joystick or a mouse?
Hi. Have you sent my order yet? Seems all email attempts to contact you have bounced recently. Julian
Quote from: zhulien on 15:28, 26 June 16
Hi. Have you sent my order yet? Seems all email attempts to contact you have bounced recently. Julian
Yes, it was sent. Please, don't send any email to the "centpourcent" domains name... Only use the paypal address or the contact form.
Thanks.
Here, some informations as I have not the time to create a Wiki page for the board... :(
MULTIPLAY V1.5:
===============
PORTS
-----
F990 = Port A Actions bits
F991 = Port B Actions bits
F992 = Port A Mouse POS-X value
F993 = Port A Mouse POS-Y value
F994 = Port B Mouse POS-X value
F995 = Port B Mouse POS-Y value
ACTION BITS
-----------
bit0: Up
bit1: Down
bit2: Left
bit3: Right
bit4: 1st fire or LMB
bit5: 2nd fire or RMB
bit6: 3rd fire or MMB
bit7: 0
MOUSE BITS
----------
bit0-2: value
bit3-7: sign (all 0 or 1)
MOUSE RESOLUTION
----------------
200 DPI (1 inch move = 200 pixels move)
________ ________
A _____| |________| |________
________ ________
B _________| |________| |________
200DPI |1 |2 |3 |4 |5 |6 |7 |8
50DPI |1 |2
MOUSE ACCURACY
--------------
4 bit with sign extended to 8bit (-8 to +7). Mouse register X/Y return the offset since the last read.
Value will saturate if not read for a long time or if the movement is too fast. It will not overflow or wrap.
From a software point of view, just read the port and add its value to your position variable.
- Reading from BASIC with 50Hz interrupt is fine to handle a fast char pointer with acceleration.
- Reading from ASM with 300Hz interrupt is fine to handle a fast pixel pointer with acceleration.
MOUSE NOTE
----------
Proportional Amiga mouse are required to use ports F992 to F995. (switch set on AMI)
Ports F990, F991 are used for the buttons. Other bits will return useless coded quadrature.
I have just received mine! :D
Great to ear that. :)
Please, take care to not force when you plug a controller into it...
(hold the connector between the fingers and down twist to remove)
For information, the Rhino's Perfect Pixel software is compatible using the AMI switch with Amiga mouse.
Do not worry, I am going to use an expansion cable with it! :D On the other hand, I plan to connect an Amiga USB mouse adapter and give it a try with my Logitech optical mouse. I am the first one doing this? :)
I don't know... I'm so angry because many boards sent the the two last months without tracking was simply lost.
And, actually I'm not able to build replacement boards as I own 20 PCB waiting for never reiceved CPLD... :-X
Well, that is really bad :(
Sorry to hear that!
I do really prefer to pay more to get it tracked, precisely to avoid this kind of situtations.
Yeah well trouble is that having tracking won't prevent people from stealing your stuff during shipping, and most of the time they won't even give a penny (or cent, or pesos, or ... ;-) ) back when you tell them your stuff has been "lost".
Quote from: dxs on 18:04, 22 July 16
Yeah well trouble is that having tracking won't prevent people from stealing your stuff during shipping, and most of the time they won't even give a penny (or cent, or pesos, or ... ;-) ) back when you tell them your stuff has been "lost".
With Registered mail you are insured and refund for the chosen value. No problem with that.
Indeed but using tracked mail (not registered) they will only refund 3x times the shipping cost, that is: not much.
At least in Spain you can insure the shipment. The only shipments I lost weren't tracked.
Quote from: dxs on 09:39, 23 July 16
Indeed but using tracked mail (not registered) they will only refund 3x times the shipping cost, that is: not much.
Sure. It is why I don't use tracked mail. Registered cost not too much more.
How much money was lost? We should make a fundraiser to compensate for the lost cards (I didn't get one either). :)
Quote from: dxs on 18:04, 22 July 16
Yeah well trouble is that having tracking won't prevent people from stealing your stuff during shipping, and most of the time they won't even give a penny (or cent, or pesos, or ... ;-) ) back when you tell them your stuff has been "lost".
The problem (imho) is rather matial law than some guys stealing CPC stuff. >:(
Hey guys, can somebody please confirm that the MultiPlay Joystick can be used for FutureOS / GianaSisters / CyberChicken. Last update of the OS (in Spanish) can be found here:
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/programming/futureos-corner/msg131388/#msg131388
Since I cannot test by myself (card never arrived) I would greatly appreciate any help. And it's easy. Just plug a joystick to the Multiplay, then install and start the OS. Now move the joystick and you should see that the mouse arrow can be moved in the Desktop.
Also CyberChicken and GianaSisters (free download on my homepage) can be used. Please check if they work too.
For those having trouble with reading an Amiga mouse... here is a couple of small examples in BASIC (the same applies in assembly but with greater DPI as the docs say)...
TEXT CURSOR:
10 MODE 2:BORDER 0
20 s=1:'sensitivity can also be fractional
30 w=80:h=25
40 x=w*0.5:y=h*0.5
50 LOCATE x,y:PRINT"*":
60 xp=x:yp=y
70 xo=INP(&F994):yo=INP(&F995):a=INP(&F991)
80 IF xo>7 THEN xo=xo-255
90 IF yo>7 THEN yo=yo-255
100 x=x+xo*s
110 y=y+yo*s
120 LOCATE 1,1:IF a AND 16 THEN PRINT"LEFT " ELSE IF a AND 32 THEN PRINT"RIGHT "ELSE IF a AND 64 THEN PRINT"MIDDLE" ELSE PRINT" "
130 IF x<1 THEN x=1
140 IF x>w THEN x=w
150 IF y<1 THEN y=1
160 IF y>h THEN y=h
170 IF x<>xp OR y<>yp THEN FRAME:LOCATE xp,yp:PRINT" ";:LOCATE x,y:PRINT"*";
180 GOTO 60
GRAPHICS CURSOR:
10 MODE 2:BORDER 0
20 s=8:'sensitivity can also be fractional
30 w=640:h=400
40 x=w*0.5:y=h*0.5
50 TAG:MOVE x,h-y:PRINT"^";
60 xp=x:yp=y
70 xo=INP(&F994):yo=INP(&F995):a=INP(&F991)
80 IF xo>7 THEN xo=xo-255
90 IF yo>7 THEN yo=yo-255
100 x=x+xo*s
110 y=y+yo*s
120 TAGOFF:LOCATE 1,1:IF a AND 16 THEN PRINT"LEFT " ELSE IF a AND 32 THEN PRINT"RIGHT "ELSE IF a AND 64 THEN PRINT"MIDDLE" ELSE PRINT" "
130 IF x<1 THEN x=1
140 IF x>w THEN x=w
150 IF y<1 THEN y=1
160 IF y>h THEN y=h
170 IF x<>xp OR y<>yp THEN FRAME:TAG:MOVE xp,h-yp:PRINT" ";:MOVE x,h-y:PRINT"^";
180 GOTO 60
Hope we get more mouse support in software to come... also you can make a dual mouse game by reading both ports, now that will be interesting...
One thing to note, I treated the bits as a mouse 'speed', it is possible to treat it as a 'speed' or an 'acceleration' - it just depends on whether you cap the speed or not somewhere, i wrote the examples based on speed because when treating it as acceleration, it didn't seem to have a different reading moving the mouse at whatever speed other than slowing down. Also as acceleration the mouse in graphics mode example, becomes too fiddly/eratic to target anywhere.
I bet a lot of people didn't know how they process mouse input:
Mouse Ballistics (https://blog.codinghorror.com/mouse-ballistics/)
I had to do a lot of tweaking in this regard when I designed the USB AMX Mouse. Firstly because the CPC resolution is rather low compared to modern screens, so a 1:1 Mickey to pixel ratio would have meant that a 5mm movement was all it took to move across the entire screen (not good). Secondly, tiny movements need to be filtered out to stop the mouse pointer from permanently jittering (also not good). A further problem is that the joystick port is not interrupt driven, it's being polled and the read rate is variable. It took a lot of trial and error to get the mouse feeling like it should be.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 10:13, 16 September 16
I had to do a lot of tweaking in this regard when I designed the USB AMX Mouse. Firstly because the CPC resolution is rather low compared to modern screens, so a 1:1 Mickey to pixel ratio would have meant that a 5mm movement was all it took to move across the entire screen (not good). Secondly, tiny movements need to be filtered out to stop the mouse pointer from permanently jittering (also not good). A further problem is that the joystick port is not interrupt driven, it's being polled and the read rate is variable. It took a lot of trial and error to get the mouse feeling like it should be.
Bryce.
In the German forum we had a discussion about this, your mouse behaves very slow compared to other joystick solutions. However if seems also to depend which software you're using. So I'm curious: What did you use as reference? (I ask because it may be good to have one reference in common for all mice). :)
Im going to play around with the idea of using the max speed as an acceleration for the previous speed instead so that at slower speeds we can get pixel accuracy but faster speeds we can jump across the screen quickly... might not be practical but will see what happens.
You can increase the speed by using a 300Hz interrupt.
Quote from: TFM on 15:28, 16 September 16
In the German forum we had a discussion about this, your mouse behaves very slow compared to other joystick solutions. However if seems also to depend which software you're using. So I'm curious: What did you use as reference? (I ask because it may be good to have one reference in common for all mice). :)
Yes, it's deliberately slowed down. My (subjective) reference was OCP Art Studio and AMX Art. My mouse adapter can be sped up to ridiculous speeds (entire screen width with 2mm movement), but it's unusable then. My test was: What's the best speed to be able to draw accurately with these art packages and use the menus. The mouse speed also depends on how often the software is reading the port and how it interprets the pulses, so any joystick port mouse will vary depending on the software.
Bryce.
Sure, very interesting actually - so you can adapt your mouse to software. Nice feature. :)
Quote from: TFM on 23:31, 17 September 16
Sure, very interesting actually - so you can adapt your mouse to software. Nice feature. :)
Yes, in fact I was considering updating the firmware so that the sensitivity could be set by the user via the mouse.
Bryce.
The Multiplay is a cursed expansion. :o
In May/June, I have built 20 boards and sent them.
12 was lost, 2 should return to me... And I'm not able to build more because in tree months:
- two 20pcs CPLD orders was lost
- one 20pcs PCB order was lost
- one 20pcs DB9 order was lost
I no more own it because I have sent mine to Rhino some months ago.
Definitively, if you have this board at home... Take care! :-\
What site are you using to send the packets Toto?.
One time when i buy in france the amstrad gun in eBay. Until i wait two weeks, i go to eBay to ask the seller where is my packet. Then i found and pre-made repond of the the seller.
And It send me to a strange site i never heard to It. Then i view my packet. Was a week ago in a traveler agency jajajaja.
Its sound crazy. Buts maybe this site can be an alternative to the lost packet to the users depend of the country. I felt strange where i go to the travel agency and say "is my packet here?.
But yeah, my packet was awaiting me in the travel agency perfect jaja.
https://www.mondialrelay.fr (https://ww.mondialrelay.fr)
No, my problems are more X-Files classified because I have sent items without issue at the same peoples too.
I have ordered parts to the same sellers before and after too... But, if MultiPlay related, it was lost. :-\
Add in the shop mini a8 traker
Then if he lost, the user can go gps coordinate localization with a gx4000 stick in one hand.
:D
Quote from: TotO on 12:14, 23 October 16
The Multiplay is a cursed expansion. :o
In May/June, I have built 20 boards and sent them.
12 was lost, 2 should return to me... And I'm not able to build more because in tree months:
- two 20pcs CPLD orders was lost
- one 20pcs PCB order was lost
- one 20pcs DB9 order was lost
I no more own it because I have sent mine to Rhino some months ago.
Definitively, if you have this board at home... Take care! :-\
Maybe now you understand why it's wise to allow for these things in the price of the device?
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 08:32, 24 October 16
Maybe now you understand why it's wise to allow for these things in the price of the device?
I have took care to have insurance to be refunt about problems. And that not made hardware cost twice.
My prices are definitively well adjusted since 3 years now, and I have shared this story because it look scary. :-\
Good to know. It's good to have low priced hardware, but not at the expense of the person building it.
Bryce.
does that mean no more MX4 boards will be made?
i think the MX4 expansion is a nice one, especially the ability to use the Amiga Mouses, for me that is the main thing but the MX4 together with the special 'normal' dual joystick adapters for CPC you then get up to 4 non-conflicting joysticks for CPC so games like bomberman can be more viable. Then... imagine if you also allowed network players via the internet also?
That only means the MultiPlay will be delayed while I will not receive all the parts to build them.
I Think the multiplay is a good idea, But at the finish he have the same problem of the normal port joysticks. The number of buttons. Many games use more that two/three buttons/keys.
I always think the best joysticks for the cpc are the snes with 8 buttons.
A great expansión could be a adapter to these joysticks.
I disagree... Most of the CPC games use only 1 button. Some 2. Few 3. (mainly require to be redefined)
The MultiPlay can support a SNES hacked controller. But...
Before doing what, please code a great game with a gameplay using more than 2 buttons and we can speek! 8)
Streetfighter II - CPC edition would make my dreams come true if it supports a SNES controller via the MultiPlay!
Quote from: TotO on 11:46, 09 November 16
I disagree... Most of the CPC games use only 1 button. Some 2. Few 3. (mainly require to be redefined)
The MultiPlay can support a SNES hacked controller with UP, DOWN, LEFT, RIGHT, START, SELECT, A, B, X (or RT), Y (or LT) buttons.
But... Before doing what, please code a great game with a gameplay using more than 2 buttons and we can speek! 8)
Yeah, i think in the terms of controlling with joystick all keys of the game.For example indiana jones and fate of atlantis appears (manual is in french) need more that three buttons. So at finish with joystick you can't separate from the keyboard. I mean all include quit pause etc.. (select+start).
Anyway many games don't permit assing button 2 to the joystick even with using redefine function of the game. I asume is not the case of multiplay if you send it to another keyboard lines.
The MultiPlay don't use key lines but a data buffer for each controller.
So, it require new or patched games/programs to deal with it.
@TotO (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=290)
Am I right that the Amiga Mouse modus of the Multiplay has following pinout configuration (see picture below)?
Just a thought: Would it be possible to use this configuration together with an AMX mouse (without the joystick emulation interface) and changing some wiring?
Picture?
ups, forgot the picture at the last post...
[attachimg=1]
I meant without the interface. Only the mouse. Your board is providing 5V for the mouse. Could it translate the signals from the mouse into the right signal for the CPC?
I don't know how work the AMX mouse without its interface. Like an ST or Amiga mouse?
If yes, you should probably plug it by using a little adapter.
Any news about connecting am AMX mouse?
Which software this this great expansion use?
Happy new year! :)
I got some time during the last days for cleaning a few things of my infinitely large todo list. In this case, those are my first patches for supporting the Multiplay mouse in games.
The first two games are: Arkanoid I and the classic Bustout!/Rebotes from the CPC manuals. Enjoy! :)
In this moment, I have a dozen of games in process of being patched. If somebody has any game suggestion, speak!!! ;)
PS: Arkanoid I for CPC includes a lot of game bugs :P, but it is a classic and the perfect game for starting this serie of patches.
I am sure it won't work with the majority of games, and of course I know the mx4 is easy to program in BASIC, but... if you did make a small BASIC patch, it could save people modifying existing CPC BASIC games to work with it - perhaps run the BASIC patch first, then run the new game - people could make custom loaders if they wanted.
It works like a charm!! :D
https://youtu.be/9nyzTsQBg4M (https://youtu.be/9nyzTsQBg4M)
Even if it looks that it has not been more news during the last week about my work with those patches. In reality, a lot of things have happened.
I have been helping to add multiplay mouse support to a few emulators. One of those emulators, Caprice Forever was released yesterday and supports the mouse already (Merci Frédéric! :)), you can get the last version (21.1) here (https://www.cpc-power.com/cpcarchives/index.php?page=articles&num=445). Other emulators will be released with support of this device soon, hehehe.
With respect to new patches, I have been working hard and there is a few more games working in some state (from 50% to 99%) and I will released them when I feel happy. In this moment, I am finishing Batty and Operation Wolf, but you can find the actual list in my blog (https://syx.neocities.org/posts/mousetrap.html).
The reason for Batty is because the game supports two players simultaneously and that let me to add support for two devices. @deepfb (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11) made a video where you can see how the game works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VmmcWjQR4U&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VmmcWjQR4U&feature=youtu.be)
What I can tell from the video, the movement really looks proportional. Especially in case of this type of games a great advantage. Thanks for your great work!!! :) :) :)
Quote from: GUNHED on 13:40, 10 January 21
What I can tell from the video, the movement really looks proportional. Especially in case of this type of games a great advantage. Thanks for your great work!!! :) :) :)
Thanks! :)
You know that I love those exotic controllers, but as always we need software that supports those kind of boards for bringing more interest in this area. And I have chosen to have fun by patching games instead of the usual Advanced Art Studio, Micro Design, ...
Well, I saw lot's of patches. But that's a fully fledged enhancement. Glad the CPC scene has you. :)
Coming back the this great device - the MultiPlay. Especially since it became a big topic again recently. :) :) :)
Well, I do have an Atari ST mouse, but no (nowhere to get) Amiga mouse.
Is it enough to exchange pins 1 (V-pulse) and 4 (HQ-pulse)?
Or do I need to do more?
Quote from: GUNHED on 17:20, 29 October 21Is it enough to exchange pins 1 (V-pulse) and 4 (HQ-pulse)?
Or do I need to do more?
Nope, just that :)
Thanks, time to get the solder iron hot... :)
Adapter made, tests will follow...
@TotO @Duke Can you confirm whether the MultiPlay can be used together with an M4Board? (Has anyone tested this?) The mouse test program (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/applications/symbos-can't-seem-to-get-multiplay-mouse-to-work/msg153309/#msg153309) does not work properly as soon as the M4Board is plugged in, in addition to the MultiPlay adapter.....
:(
The MultiPlay in only buffers and counters that write things on its dedicated ports range.
Quote from: Poliander on 10:45, 03 March 22Can you confirm whether the MultiPlay can be used together with an M4Board? (Has anyone tested this?)
Right now I tested it with SymbOS. I can boot SymbOS from the M4Board SD card and have an Amiga mouse connected to port B of the MultiPlay.
Both the mouse works fine and I can access the SD card of the M4board and load applications in SymbOS (classic CPC 6128)
Does both work stand-alone on your system?
@TotO @Duke Okay, it seems that there were electrical issues, sorry - suddenly, everything is working fine now.
@Prodatron Thank you very much for your confirmation! (I did not suspect that this issue was related to SymbOS 3.1). I got it now working with M4/ZMEM(1024k)/MultiPlay+Amiga mouse - my dream ultimatively came true. I am really so happy for the MultiPlay Amiga mouse to finally work in this setup.
(https://i.ibb.co/N3qqbGV/IMG-3054.jpg)
Cool, that looks good! :) Glad, that it's working!
@TotO, I am just curious, do you still produce the MultiPlay?
@Prodatron Yes, I have some waiting the CPLD but I'm not able to program them for any reasons.
A bit late to confirm anything, but yes, Multiplay and the M4 interface work fine together. This is my partner and me playing Batty loaded from the M4, using two Amiga mice. This version of Batty was patched by SyX so it can be used with a mouse or a trackball.
Arkanoid was also patched by SyX; the setup here is the same as in the previous video
Fantastic!!! You are playing with the full MultiPlay and two halves of a brain! ;D
Just to come back to the nice MultiPlay (and my previous questions).
Now you can use the the MultiPlay with joysticks or mice - both ports are supported - with FutureOS. The 'Config OS' application allows you to define at which port you're using a mouse. This setup must be made by hand. (You can also activate / deactivate the MultiPlay in the configuration).
Hello,
@TotO Interested in one if you produce some more. Would be great.
Thanks a lot.
Anyone know where to find SyX patches for games like Arkanoid or Batty shown on videos ?
Thanks.
Phil
@Philippe Lardenois Since I have no answer for more than a month from a guy asking me one, please just PM me and the MultiPlay is for you. ;)
ok Done. Thanks a lot
Quote from: TotO on 10:37, 10 April 22Since I have no answer for more than a month from a guy asking me one
Hi TotO,
That would be me, completely missed your last e-mail saying it was ready.
Would you have another available at all?
Thanks,
James.
Quote from: Skunkfish on 15:42, 05 May 22Hi TotO,
That would be me, completely missed your last e-mail saying it was ready.
Would you have another available at all?
Thanks,
James.
Yes, I have kept your board. ;D
Out of curiosity ... are they still available? Will a new batch be made? And how much have been sold?
I like this device a whole lot. :) :) :)
Sorry
@GUNHED but I have not more MultiPlay now. It will require to reorder parts to build at less 10 of them. Around 80 was sold.
Yes, it is a nice board made for the Axelay's games MegaBlaster and QuadRaster. It support dual joysticks and mice (with balistic mode) for multiplayers games w/o input conflicts and provide +5V to power them.
Yes, my software supports it too. :) 80 units is a decent number for CPC scene and it's definitely worth to keep the MultiPlay in mind when creating new games.
From the software side it's a dream anyway, can't be more easy to request joystick-data (or mouse of course). :)
Maybe a waiting list so. 10 units shouldn't be so hard to reach (including yaronet).
I have totally missed the last batch.
My Multiplay arrived, it is of course another wonderful expansion from ToTO.
After finishing reveling in the smooth mouse movement in SymbOS I decided to have some fun.
It didn't look like anyone had adapted Facehugger's Classic 4 player snake game 'Worm Slickers', so I thought I'd give it a go...
Player 1 is Joy 1, Player 2 is Joy 2, Player 3 is Multiplay A, Player 4 is Multiplay B.
Sorry keyboard fans!
Let me know if you find any issues!
WormMulti.dsk
Great work... just reminds me to look for a 4-Player Tron game. ;) :)
Great. Just missing 3 friends! ;D
Quote from: TotO on 15:03, 17 June 22Great. Just missing 3 friends! ;D
They hang over there with these four cute girls and ... just miss you! :)
BTW: Maybe it's time to have a DIRectory / folder / something somewhere to collect MultiPlay supporting games.
@TotO what is involved in adapting this to work on the zx spectrum?
Address decoding and may be the joystick wiring to be compatible with the existing.
Because the new release of RVM emulator has added support for Multiplay, I published a few more games patched for using this mouse interface.
You can find them here. (https://www.mojontwins.com/cepeceros/juegos-parcheados-para-raton/)
Any feedback in real machine is more than welcome. Enjoy! ;)
Great piece of work SyX! Thanks a lot! :) :) :)
Would be nice to have more MultiPlay for our CPCs, maybe even with a switch for Amiga / ST mouses. ;) :)
Well, there are USB mice adaptors from Bryce and Duke. They allow a USB mouse to be added to the CPC in a joystick compatible way. Dukes version supports pretty much everything USB.
Now... Would it make sense to have an adapter to connect an USB mouse to the MultiPlay?
Amiga (and Atari ST) mice are hard to get, 40 Euros (including shipping) at a minimum. And they have balls instead of LEDs.
But we all have an USB mouse somewhere.
So....... what's about having an adapter to make an USB mouse running with MultiPlay?
Yes, there are adapters for the Amiga, but do they work with the MP?
You can use an USB to Amiga adapter for that.
I'm already using such an adapter to connect my Microsoft Business mouse to the CPC via the Multiplay - works like a charm but they're not cheap! (I needed one for my Amiga anyway so it's shared between the two).
@SyX Thank you so much for these patches, I will be sure to check them out! Is there much work involved in patching a game to use a mouse, or does it vary from game to game?
When the Multiplay was released in 2015, it was easy to find new and cheap Amiga mouse at the different online shops (amigakit, amigastore, ...). So, the idea was to allow to be able to connect two DB9 peripherals (joystick, gamepad, mouse) to the CPC.
Quote from: Skunkfish on 19:56, 14 January 23@SyX Thank you so much for these patches, I will be sure to check them out! Is there much work involved in patching a game to use a mouse, or does it vary from game to game?
You are welcome
@Skunkfish!
Well, it depends if you want a fast hack or something more elaborate.
For example, Classic Axiens is a fast hack because I didn't change the menu.
In the case of Batty, you can see that I changed the menu text, everything is controlled by mouse, two players can play simultaneously, and I even fixed a few bugs in the original game (both players fire buttons are interchanged in the original game).
In the two Command games, I replaced the Kempton mouse support for Multiplay, set Multiplay as the default control and fixed the control menu text, everything directly in the original protected dsk.
With respect to patching the control generally, it is not hard. My process is: First, I discover the read player input code and replace directly with my mouse routine; or I find some empty place for putting my mouse code (a dozen of bytes) and patch the game to jump to my code. That it is always the same.
Second, the game specific code, I find the variables for player coordinates and update the code for support the mouse, that can be trivial or more complex, but I didn't find any game that I could not patch yet and there is few more games in the workbench, included racing games.
The biggest problem is the lack of testing in real machine. Sure, we can test now in emulators, but the control is optimized for the only and wonderful person that help me with the tests in the real machine. But need more tests for adjusting the speed and acceleration for the typical user.
Because that, I published two versions of the Command game, where the mouse goes at different speed; or in games like batty or arkanoid, you can press the key 3 or 4 in the menu, for changing the mouse speed (I call this the Metr mode, for people can discover how Mr. Metr or Quicksilver or Flash feel the world XDDD).
i love that it supports 2 mouses - so 2 player mouse games can be played properly
The concept was to be able to run 2-player games with gamepad or mouse on the same controller port, like the Amiga does. Expecting that some games like Lemmings, Shufflepuck Cafe, North & South will be early patched.
It was first designed for Megablasters (https://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=11523) to have no input conflict when running at 50Hz.
Did Megablasters already get patched for the MultiPlay?
Megablasters support the MultiPlay natively since its release in 2015.
Sorry, mixed that up with Odiesofts game. The question was about Odiesofts Megablasters.
No worry. In this case, I don't know. Probably not.
Me neither, will ask Odie when I see him in autumn. Maybe he got the sources still, so it should be easy to be done.
I would love to see LEMMINGS patched next! Great work
@SyX!
Quote from: GUNHED on 17:58, 30 January 23Me neither, will ask Odie when I see him in autumn. Maybe he got the sources still, so it should be easy to be done.
In that case maybe a few sprites refresh should be done.
Hi again,
Because ACE has added support to Multiplay, I am going to upload a floppy with a few arcades supporting the mouse. You can find the usual: Arkanoid 1, Batty, Classic Axxiens and Operation Wolf (128 KBs).
The only "new" game is a beta of Arkanoid 2 (128 KBs), the game can be finished and everything works fine, even hi score saving. In fact, it must be the best mouse game for multiplay in this moment, the game feels really smooth because is running at 25 HZ.
It is a beta because I have patched a lot of the bugs in the original game; since the annoying screen corruption when you reach a new section; until changing the palette and graphics for reducing the flickering during the raster split between scores and game zone...
Although I continue fighting with that annoying flickering, it is going to need extensive changes to the game engine for fixing a minor detail that most people doesn't care while they are playing, in fact the original game flicker a lot more and I never read any complain about it.
This patch has been rotting in my multiplay folder for years. Aside of tat annoying cosmetics bug, the main guilty is that I haven't time for finishing the level editor and the porting of Arkanoid 1 levels to this game engine, a much better one with no slowdowns.