This new multi purpose board: ram_rom_main.jpg
Is a compliment to USIfAC II (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/usifac-iimake-your-pc-or-usb-stick-an-hdd-for-amstrad-access-dsk-and-many-more!/) board that offers amazing new features:
-512K RAM Expansion (default mode, should work with other boards too,like M4, DDI interfaces etc.)
-32X Rom board mode (supports both lower and upper roms)
-256K Ram expansion + 2X Rom board mode (supports both lower and upper roms) It can also act a "mini" MX4 board, as it offers a 50pin female connector + edge connector to plug USIfAC II and other boards.
You can check these small presentation videos:
Board would be especially useful for Amstrad CPC 464, as it will, not only allow to run games that require 128k Ram, but also, using the special "Dual mode", you will have amsdos/parados rom (for fast access of dsk image files, like with CPC6128) or CPC6128 firmware+Basic (to use all new features and conveniences of CPC6128 BASIC 1.1), along with 256K Memory expansion!
Anything you will need can be found
here (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/iyptzad2cs6byq5/AADwoDLQwRDmQQoQ9dCpaxi7a?dl=0), including a small user guide too (readme.pdf). Use "RAM-ROM_old_usifac.zip", if you have a USIfAC II with older than v6 firmware.
Price for the board is 29 euros including registered/tracked postageExtra edge connector ribbon cable costs +3euros, Centronics cable +5euros.
Anyone interested, please contact at: ikonsgr745@hotmail.com
Btw, if you already have an edge/centronics ribbon cable, you can use it with RAM/ROM board and plug USIfAC II (or other boards) directly to the 50pin connector:
IMG_20220905_212503_463.jpg
It seems impressive !!!
email sent.
d_kef
WoW! Great hardware for an even greater price!!! :) :) :)
In dual mode the great board provides 256 KB of RAM, so 256 KB would be left for ROMs (16 ROMs of 16 KB).
But the PDF states only 2 ROMs. Is is a typo, or another reason?
Cool to see, that the USIfAC II fits on the board too! :) :) :) :)
That looks great, eMail sent!
Great, send a Email...
xesrjb
Quote from: GUNHED on 14:10, 06 September 22WoW! Great hardware for an even greater price!!! :) :) :)
In dual mode the great board provides 256 KB of RAM, so 256 KB would be left for ROMs (16 ROMs of 16 KB).
But the PDF states only 2 ROMs. Is is a typo, or another reason?
Cool to see, that the USIfAC II fits on the board too! :) :) :) :)
No, it's not typo, supporting 16 Roms in dual mode would require extra logic (more ic's) and more complex curcuit, but i wanted the board to be as cheap and simple as possible. So, initially there was only one rom supported in dual mode, and then using a trick (with only an extra diode and a resistor) i manage to add a 2nd rom too :) The good thing is that both low and upper rom supported, so you can have CPC 6128 FW+BASIC 1.1 on a cpc 464 (along with 256K ram expansion) and get rid of the crappy Basic 1.0 :D
Nevertheless, having full 16roms support + 256k ram in dula mode, is something i intend to make for the next ULIFAC (or USIFAC III) board, which will merge USIfAC II + RAM/ROM board into one board! ;)
Hi, E mail sent too. Seems great.
excellent!.. gonna have to grab one..after i fix my cpc :picard:
it would be nice to have a backup battery (button cell) on the SRAM, then ya could "edit" roms and keep them "alive" between reboots/power cycles..maybe something for v2!
also the dual mode, is that hardwired for one rom in lower rom slot? i already have the 1.1 Basic rom installed, so would like to use one slot for ams/parados and the other for another standard rom..
Thanks for the update Iconsgr. Awesome piece of work!!! :) :) :)
Hi,
this is really great, so its possible to actually upgrade a CPC464 to a CPC 6128, right?
Would it be possible to make it run CP/M or even CP/M Plus on it?
Will the ULIFAC/USIFAC III be (more less) the size of an USIFAC II board or bigger? I try to not grow my CPC too much to the back (as my Desk is already quite full with computers)
kind regards
Wolfgang
Quote from: WacKEDmaN on 01:33, 07 September 22excellent!.. gonna have to grab one..after i fix my cpc :picard:
it would be nice to have a backup battery (button cell) on the SRAM, then ya could "edit" roms and keep them "alive" between reboots/power cycles..maybe something for v2!
Well,i suppose you can use the external power supply connector for that, just plug a 5v psu (and remove the internal power jumper otherwise it will power amstrad too :) ) that would retain sram data and current mode/rom configuration. Although loading process of prepared rom schemes is quite easy and fast (check the 5roms video presentation to verify this). You can easily create your own rom loader and rom configuration basic programs, and execute them in a few seconds. In small user's guide, i provide the small basic listing for loading rom files and the few OUT commands needed to configure roms as you like ;)
Quote from: WacKEDmaN on 01:33, 07 September 22also the dual mode, is that hardwired for one rom in lower rom slot? i already have the 1.1 Basic rom installed, so would like to use one slot for ams/parados and the other for another standard rom..
Nothing is "hard wired", the 1st rom slot 0 can be used as either upper or lower rom, and the 2nd rom slot is only for upper rom. Of course you can map roms to any rom slot you want, and also, activate/deactivate them, using simple OUT commands.
That's the "beuaty" of using Microcontroller with CLC's, instead of a CPLD and have dozens of switches to do all the needed... "hard rewire"! :D
Quote from: wolfgang on 13:30, 07 September 22Hi,
this is really great, so its possible to actually upgrade a CPC464 to a CPC 6128, right?
Exactly, with CPC6128 Firmware and Basic 1.1, 464 will behave like a CPC 6128 (that's what the "6128.BAS" program does, check user's guide for more info).
Quote from: wolfgang on 13:30, 07 September 22Would it be possible to make it run CP/M or even CP/M Plus on it?
You can load amsdos/parados rom in dual mode, and also have 256k ram expansion. Then, i suppose you can mount any cpm dsk image and use it directly with floppy drive emulation (|FDC). I have prepared utilities to do exactly that ("464PARAD" and "464AMSDO")
Quote from: wolfgang on 13:30, 07 September 22Will the ULIFAC/USIFAC III be (more less) the size of an USIFAC II board or bigger? I try to not grow my CPC too much to the back (as my Desk is already quite full with computers)
The development board i designed for ULIFAC is ~10cmX10cm but i expect the final board to be a bit smaller, as i intend to use SMD 512K sram chips, instead of DIP, as they are much smaller, cheaper and easier to find.
Dobbertin- and Vortex-pachted CP/M Plus runs well on CPC464 with at least 128 KB of RAM.
Quote from: ikonsgr on 15:27, 07 September 22Quote from: wolfgang on 13:30, 07 September 22Hi,
this is really great, so its possible to actually upgrade a CPC464 to a CPC 6128, right?
Exactly, with CPC6128 Firmware and Basic 1.1, 464 will behave like a CPC 6128 (that's what the "6128.BAS" program does, check user's guide for more info).
Quote from: wolfgang on 13:30, 07 September 22Would it be possible to make it run CP/M or even CP/M Plus on it?
You can load amsdos/parados rom in dual mode, and also have 256k ram expansion. Then, i suppose you can mount any cpm dsk image and use it directly with floppy drive emulation (|FDC). I have prepared utilities to do exactly that ("464PARAD" and "464AMSDO")
Quote from: wolfgang on 13:30, 07 September 22Will the ULIFAC/USIFAC III be (more less) the size of an USIFAC II board or bigger? I try to not grow my CPC too much to the back (as my Desk is already quite full with computers)
The development board i designed for ULIFAC is ~10cmX10cm but i expect the final board to be a bit smaller, as i intend to use SMD 512K sram chips, instead of DIP, as they are much smaller, cheaper and easier to find.
Wow, perfect I will order one as soon as it is available (any idea when taht could be :-)?
Quote from: wolfgang on 20:20, 07 September 22Quote from: ikonsgr on 15:27, 07 September 22Quote from: wolfgang on 13:30, 07 September 22Hi,
this is really great, so its possible to actually upgrade a CPC464 to a CPC 6128, right?
Exactly, with CPC6128 Firmware and Basic 1.1, 464 will behave like a CPC 6128 (that's what the "6128.BAS" program does, check user's guide for more info).
Quote from: wolfgang on 13:30, 07 September 22Would it be possible to make it run CP/M or even CP/M Plus on it?
You can load amsdos/parados rom in dual mode, and also have 256k ram expansion. Then, i suppose you can mount any cpm dsk image and use it directly with floppy drive emulation (|FDC). I have prepared utilities to do exactly that ("464PARAD" and "464AMSDO")
Quote from: wolfgang on 13:30, 07 September 22Will the ULIFAC/USIFAC III be (more less) the size of an USIFAC II board or bigger? I try to not grow my CPC too much to the back (as my Desk is already quite full with computers)
The development board i designed for ULIFAC is ~10cmX10cm but i expect the final board to be a bit smaller, as i intend to use SMD 512K sram chips, instead of DIP, as they are much smaller, cheaper and easier to find.
Wow, perfect I will order one as soon as it is available (any idea when taht could be :-)?
It's already available, just write him an e-mail (See first post) ;)
Quote from: wolfgang on 20:20, 07 September 22Wow, perfect I will order one as soon as it is available (any idea when taht could be :-)?
I currently have ~20boards left, but only 10 ram chips, so i can make another 10 boards.But i've ordered another 10 ram chips, so i believe i will have another 10boards available in a month or so.
Great work ikonsgr!
I have a couple of questions:
1. What are the dimensions of the board (including the Edge connector), I do not have very much space behind the 6128 and I would like to know if it fits
2. Has anyone tested yet that it works with an M4 board? Does SYMBOS work running from M4's SD card with this configuration?
Best regards,
Takis
Quote from: Takis Kalatzis on 08:08, 08 September 221. What are the dimensions of the board (including the Edge connector), I do not have very much space behind the 6128 and I would like to know if it fits
Dimensions are ~10cmX7cm
Quote from: Takis Kalatzis on 08:08, 08 September 222. Has anyone tested yet that it works with an M4 board? Does SYMBOS work running from M4's SD card with this configuration?
I test Symbos, and it works on CPC6128 and 512K Ram mode,recognizing 576K total ram: https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=35088
Very nice card! email sent
Great, but can it be used with cpc 6128+ computer also?
I know that the fw basic 1.1 is unnecessary to me, but can I use the mem. expansion on Mx4 port?
If yes, what is the max. expectable memory and in which mode can be accessed?
Thanks!
Quote from: leexus on 09:18, 08 September 22Great, but can it be used with cpc 6128+ computer also?
I know that the fw basic 1.1 is unnecessary to me, but can I use the mem. expansion on Mx4 port?
If yes, what is the max. expectable memory and in which mode can be accessed?
Thanks!
Unfortunately i don't have an amstrad plus to test the board, but if mem configuration is the same with CPC (same port and ram modes), then i can't find any reason not to work.
Maximum available memory is 576Kb when use the deafult 512k ram expansion mode.
Quote from: ikonsgr on 10:40, 08 September 22Quote from: leexus on 09:18, 08 September 22Great, but can it be used with cpc 6128+ computer also?
I know that the fw basic 1.1 is unnecessary to me, but can I use the mem. expansion on Mx4 port?
If yes, what is the max. expectable memory and in which mode can be accessed?
Thanks!
Unfortunately i don't have an amstrad plus to test the board, but if mem configuration is the same with CPC (same port and ram modes), then i can't find any reason not to work.
Maximum available memory is 576Kb when use the deafult 512k ram expansion mode.
As soon as I receive mine I'll test and report back.
d_kef
email sent, ordered one
Quote from: SkulleateR on 20:28, 07 September 22Quote from: wolfgang on 20:20, 07 September 22Quote from: ikonsgr on 15:27, 07 September 22Quote from: wolfgang on 13:30, 07 September 22Hi,
this is really great, so its possible to actually upgrade a CPC464 to a CPC 6128, right?
Exactly, with CPC6128 Firmware and Basic 1.1, 464 will behave like a CPC 6128 (that's what the "6128.BAS" program does, check user's guide for more info).
Quote from: wolfgang on 13:30, 07 September 22Would it be possible to make it run CP/M or even CP/M Plus on it?
You can load amsdos/parados rom in dual mode, and also have 256k ram expansion. Then, i suppose you can mount any cpm dsk image and use it directly with floppy drive emulation (|FDC). I have prepared utilities to do exactly that ("464PARAD" and "464AMSDO")
Quote from: wolfgang on 13:30, 07 September 22Will the ULIFAC/USIFAC III be (more less) the size of an USIFAC II board or bigger? I try to not grow my CPC too much to the back (as my Desk is already quite full with computers)
The development board i designed for ULIFAC is ~10cmX10cm but i expect the final board to be a bit smaller, as i intend to use SMD 512K sram chips, instead of DIP, as they are much smaller, cheaper and easier to find.
Wow, perfect I will order one as soon as it is available (any idea when taht could be :-)?
It's already available, just write him an e-mail (See first post) ;)
No, I wait until the ULIFAC (combination of USIFAC II and RAM/ROM board is available, I need top save space on my desk.
Frankly, i didn't expect such demand, 20boards left in first 2days... :o
For the moment,i only have 3-4 boards left, and in a few weeks another 10 when i receive the sram chips.
Hi, great job!! 1x unit for me. Email sent
Quote from: ikonsgr on 16:28, 08 September 22Frankly, i didn't expect such demand, 20boards left in first 2days... :o
For the moment,i only have 3-4 boards left, and in a few weeks another 10 when i receive the sram chips.
Ready to break the USIfAC sales record ? :D
Having enough RAM is always a good thing :)
Quote from: poulette73 on 19:52, 08 September 22Ready to break the USIfAC sales record ? :D
For such short time, surely this is a record, i don't recall USIfAC II ever sold ~2 dozens boards in a few days :)
Btw, USIfAC II is closing to 300 boards sold (in ~20 last months).
Does the 512 KB RAM part work with FutureOS too?
Quote from: GUNHED on 20:51, 11 September 22Does the 512 KB RAM part work with FutureOS too?
Haven't tested, as FUTURE OS needs also a rom board. But i suppose someone who already bought the board might be able to try it, and tell us :)
Btw, i currently have only one board left (i had a couple of bad sram chips :( ), and in a couple of weeks, another 10 boards will be available.
And a small request: Although i made extensive tests to ensure board works well, as this is a new project, i would really appreciate any feedback for any bugs or incompatibilities with specific games/programs.
Also, it would be very interested to verify that the 512K ram mode, works with other hardware too, like M4 , DDI interfaces, ROM boards etc.
Today I spent some time playing with my new board and here are my findings so far:
1) The combination of USIfAC II + 512K RAM Expansion/32x Rom board/256K Ram+2X Rom board (by the way
@ikonsgr you need to find a shorter name :D ) is working as expected with my 6128. Both RAM and ROM expansion were tested.
2) The combination of M4 Board + 512K RAM Expansion/32x Rom board/256K Ram+2X Rom board is not working with my 6128.
The 6128 freezes immediately after showing the M4 initialization message. The M4 had no ROMS installed and it works flawlessly with another 512K RAM board using the same cable. I also tried to change the M4s ROM nr to no avail.
3) I can't test the combination of USIfAC II + 512K RAM Expansion/32x Rom board/256K Ram+2X Rom board with my 464 because my USIfAC II freezes. The 464 boots to the USIfACs ROM initialization message then reboots and freezes after showing the Amstrad FW message. I have an early model with the tall keys and a 40007 gate array.
4) The combination of M4 Board + 512K RAM Expansion/32x Rom board/256K Ram+2X Rom board is working with my 464 but C3 memory mode is not. So CP/M Plus is not loading and Future OS 8 boots but the mouse pointer leaves traces on the screen.
The strange thing is that when the selector is in 6128 position loading CP/M plus fills the screen with garbage as expected when C3 mode is not working but when the selector is in 464 position loading CP/M just clears the screen as if it was loading normally on a 6128 but CP/M never comes up. I tried with CP/M Plus .DSK file, Graduate CP/M Plus ROM, and HDCPM and all of them had the same behavior.
Furthermore with some .DSK files the directory (contents of .DSK) was not showing correctly and couldn't load the containing game. Other .DSK files worked just fine.
d_kef
Hello, my initial tests of the new board are as follows.
The board works fine when it is the only thing connected to my CPC6128.
On my CPC6128 the new board works fine with the following and is connected to the far end of the
@revaldinho MX4 expansions.
@revaldinho Eight ROM Card
@revaldinho CPC-CPLink RPi Co-processor card
The only problem card so far is the Dandanator. When that is connected, the computer does not boot up - I just get a screen with some colour bars. This is low priority as the Dandanator is mostly used on it's own with nothing else connected.
Hope that helps, more to follow.
Richard.
Quote from: d_kef on 19:29, 14 September 222) The combination of M4 Board + 512K RAM Expansion/32x Rom board/256K Ram+2X Rom board is not working with my 6128.
The 6128 freezes immediately after showing the M4 initialization message. The M4 had no ROMS installed and it works flawlessly with another 512K RAM board using the same cable. I also tried to change the M4s ROM nr to no avail.
Hmmm, i suspect 2 possibilities, either M4 uses printer port (address bit Α12=0) on boot, (and it might conflict with RAM/ROM board, which also uses printer port for communication), or ram/rom board might not be able to "pass through" the required power and/or other signals adequately, as M4 is quite more complex board than USIFAC II.
Now, i suppose you plugged M4 on ramrom board, right?
Did you use both 50pin connector and edge connectors?
Did you try to remove the internal supply jumper and use an external 5v psu?
Finally, if you have a MX4 board with multiple connectors, did you try to plug ram/rom and M4 board separately on MX4 board?
Quote from: d_kef on 19:29, 14 September 223) I can't test the combination of USIfAC II + 512K RAM Expansion/32x Rom board/256K Ram+2X Rom board with my 464 because my USIfAC II freezes. The 464 boots to the USIfACs ROM initialization message then reboots and freezes after showing the Amstrad FW message. I have an early model with the tall keys and a 40007 gate array.
Unfortunately, my cpc464 has a 40010 so i couldn't test it with 40007 to verify any possible incompatibility with it. It would be helpful if anyone else with a CPC464 and 40007 gatearray, can report problems too.
Anyway, to verify any board design problems with specific amstrad revision boards, did you use both 50pin connector and edge connectors? Also, did you try to remove the internal supply jumper and use an external 5v psu? Btw, what board and fw version of USIFAC II you have?
Quote from: d_kef on 19:29, 14 September 224) The combination of M4 Board + 512K RAM Expansion/32x Rom board/256K Ram+2X Rom board is working with my 464 but C3 memory mode is not. So CP/M Plus is not loading and Future OS 8 boots but the mouse pointer leaves traces on the screen.
The strange thing is that when the selector is in 6128 position loading CP/M plus fills the screen with garbage as expected when C3 mode is not working but when the selector is in 464 position loading CP/M just clears the screen as if it was loading normally on a 6128 but CP/M never comes up. I tried with CP/M Plus .DSK file, Graduate CP/M Plus ROM, and HDCPM and all of them had the same behavior.
Furthermore with some .DSK files the directory (contents of .DSK) was not showing correctly and couldn't load the containing game. Other .DSK files worked just fine.
d_kef
When switch is set to "6128" position, board doesn't suppress MREQ signal, which is required on CPC464 for the expansion RAM to function. This suppression might cause problems with some game/utilities, especially with new OS like symbos or futureos (i verified this with symbos, although it works ok on a cpc6128 and setting switch to "6128" position). Anyway,as using Amstrad diagnostics (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24I4QtFV7Vc) with my CPC464, reports support of C3 mode in both 512K RAM and 256K RAM/2x ROM modes video, could you provide the dsk images you used for futureOS and cpm to test them with my CPC464?
Quote from: ikonsgr on 11:19, 15 September 22Now, i suppose you plugged M4 on ramrom board, right?
Did you use both 50pin connector and edge connectors?
Did you try to remove the internal supply jumper and use an external 5v psu?
Finally, if you have a MX4 board with multiple connectors, did you try to plug ram/rom and M4 board separately on MX4 board?
I tried:
1) with M4 on ramrom board
2) on a separate cable connected to the edge connector of ramrom board
3) on a cable with 2 female IDC connectors which should be similar to MX4
The behavior is exactly the same
Quote from: ikonsgr on 11:19, 15 September 22Unfortunately, my cpc464 has a 40010 so i couldn't test it with 40007 to verify any possible incompatibility with it. It would be helpful if anyone else with a CPC464 and 40007 gatearray, can report problems too.
Anyway, to verify any board design problems with specific amstrad revision boards, did you use both 50pin connector and edge connectors? Also, did you try to remove the internal supply jumper and use an external 5v psu? Btw, what board and fw version of USIFAC II you have?
I used the same cable / board combinations as with the 6128.
I didn't try with an external PSU but I use a an external regulated 5V/5A PSU which gives a nice and clean 5.2V output at all times. I also tried to power the system from with the CTM644 but there was no difference.
I'll try with an external PSU for the ramrom board and report back (when I find some time to search my box of PSUs and find one with the correct DC characteristics and the correct plug type).
USIfAC II has been upgraded to 6f but I also tried with fw 6d.
Quote from: ikonsgr on 11:19, 15 September 22When switch is set to "6128" position, board doesn't suppress MREQ signal, which is required on CPC464 for the expansion RAM to function. This suppression might cause problems with some game/utilities, especially with new OS like symbos or futureos (i verified this with symbos, although it works ok on a cpc6128 and setting switch to "6128" position). Anyway,as using Amstrad diagnostics with my CPC464, reports support of C3 mode in both 512K RAM and 256K RAM/2x ROM modes video, could you provide the dsk images you used for futureOS and cpm to test them with my CPC464?
I just made an important discovery.
@llopis Diag ROM shows support of C3 mode even for my other ROAM board (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/roam-board-new-romram-expansion!/) which I definitley know it is NOT supporting it (as I designed it). So I wouldn't count on the diags reliability on this matter.
d_kef
Quote from: d_kef on 20:52, 15 September 22Diag ROM shows support of C3 mode even for my other rom board (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/roam-board-new-romram-expansion!/) which I definitley know it is NOT supporting it (as I designed it). So I wouldn't count on the diags reliability on this matter.
d_kef
Thanks for the follow-up on testing. I might need to widen ground/common traces (as for 5v power supply too) on the board, this is how i fix such problems in the past.
Btw,can you suggest a tool (in file or dsk form) for checking C3 mode support then?
Quote from: ikonsgr on 20:59, 15 September 22Thanks for the follow-up on testing. I might need to widen ground/common traces (as for 5v power supply too) on the board, this is how i fix such problems in the past.
Btw,can you suggest a tool (in file or dsk form) for checking C3 mode support then?
Well I never needed one but as a general rule If CP/M Plus is booting to the command prompt then C3 mode is working.
d_kef
Quote from: d_kef on 21:14, 15 September 22Well I never needed one but as a general rule If CP/M Plus is booting to the command prompt then C3 mode is working.
d_kef
Ok, photo is taken using CPC6128 with RAM/ROM board (512K Ram mode) and "464" mode (MREQ supress enabled). Does this means that C3 mode is indeed supported?
Yes it is! But the 6128 supports it natively.
I thought the point was to give the same functionality to the 464.
Or am I missing something? ::)
Edit:
Ok. I just re-read the board's instructions and it is clear that the selector suppresses the MREQ signal for better compatibility. That's not the same as supporting C3 mode. My bad :picard:
d_kef
Quote from: d_kef on 22:22, 15 September 22Yes it is! But the 6128 supports it natively.
I thought the point was to give the same functionality to the 464.
Or am I missing something? ::)
d_kef
Unfortunately cpm plus only runs using a real disk (i transfer the image to a floppy disk using |DSK command), when using dsk image and FDC emulation, it freezes at some point of loading (on either CPC464 or CPC6128, with or without RAM/ROM board). So i could only test it with a CPC 6128, but when RAM/ROM board is connected, the internal control of ram banking of cpc 6128 is deactivated, and ram/rom board takes over memory management. Is there any utility on cpm plus that can report or test all available memory?
Quote from: d_kef on 22:22, 15 September 22Edit:
Ok. I just re-read the board's instructions and it is clear that the selector suppresses the MREQ signal for better compatibility. That's not the same as supporting C3 mode. My bad :picard:
d_kef
Actually the suppression of MREQ is mandatory on CPC 464 otherwise ram expansion will not function at all ("officially" cpc464 didn't support memory expansion, without MREQ suppression, every write to a ram expansion block address, writes to same address of internal ram too)!
QuoteUnfortunately cpm plus only runs using a real disk
Not really! You can always use HDCPM ;)
d_kef
@Duke created a short program which does a good job of testing the first 512k of expansion RAM and reporting the level of C3 compatibility.
The source is on Github. (https://github.com/M4Duke/z80/blob/master/RAM512KB.s)
There is also a binary attached to this older thread (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?msg=165794)
I just test board using duke's ramtest program. On CPC6128 everything works ok, but on CPC464, C3 mode is not supported because of the required internal ram remapping from block 1 to block 3, which practically means that when C3 mode is enabled, and A15=0 & A14=1 (address &4000-&7fff) then A15OUT=1 & A14OUT=1 (adress &C000-&FFFF).
Of course this requires for the A15 and A14 INPUT signals from CPU, to be seperated from the A15 and A14 OUTPUT signals that goes to RAM chips (through a 74LS1453 multiplexer).
On a CPC 6128, A15 and A14 address bits from CPU, are ideed directed to the HAL16L8 (that controls memory managment) which then gives appropriate A14OUT and A15OUT signals. And these signals are then drive the 74LS153 multiplexer, that controls internal RAM's A15 and A14 address bits:
6128mem.jpg
But,on CPC464, both A14 and A15 INPUT signals from CPU, goes DIRECTLY to 74LS153 multiplexer that controls internal RAM's A15 and A14 address bits:
464mem.jpg
So, the only way to support C3 mode on a CPC464, might be using some latch circuit that "Catches" momentarily the A14 & A15 input signals, and then alters the same A15 signal... ::) Is there any RAM board that supports C3 mode on CPC464?
Quote from: ikonsgr on 09:32, 16 September 22So, the only way to support C3 mode on a CPC464, might be using some latch circuit that "Catches" momentarily the A14 & A15 input signals, and then alters the same A15 signal... ::) Is there any RAM board that supports C3 mode on CPC464?
My Universal CPC RAM cards (https://github.com/revaldinho/cpc_ram_expansion/wiki/Universal-Amstrad-CPC-RAM-Card) provide full support for C3 mode on the CPC464/664 and can run FutureOS and CPM+ without problem. There isn't a lot of other software which needs full 6128-like C3 mode support though.
The trick is to allocate one 64K bank of RAM to shadow the internal memory and then use that for reads rather than the actual base memory in C3 modes. Full documentation (https://github.com/revaldinho/cpc_ram_expansion/blob/master/cpc_ram_expansion1mb/doc/Revaldinho%20Universal%201MByte%20RAM%20Card%20User%20Guide%20and%20Technical%20Documentation.pdf) and all the code is shared under the GPL in the project Github site (https://github.com/revaldinho/cpc_ram_expansion), and the cards have been discussed here including in the thread I linked with Duke's RAM test. You may be able to adapt the shadow memory mode to your new card although you can't get away from having to back-drive one of the memory address lines.
Also the Dk'tronics RAM expansions offered support for C3 mode by overdriving /MREQ and A15.
Discussion here (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/dk'tronics-ram-c3-selection-464/) and here (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/464-and-ram-extension/).
d_kef
Quote from: revaldinho on 09:50, 16 September 22although you can't get away from having to back-drive one of the memory address lines.
Well, this "back drive" (of having A15 address bit '0' as input and output it to '1'at the same time...) is what puzzles me...
Maybe this is feesible using CPLD, but i don't think you can do it, using CLC's from the PIC mcu... ::)
Anyway, as you also mention, this C3 mode is practically used only with future OS and CPM+, so it doesn't affect the ability to run games and other programs that require 128k ram on cpc 464 (or need 6128 fw+basic too, using the dual mode of 256k ram+2x roms),which i suppose is the "main point" for most cpc464 owners :D
Quote from: d_kef on 10:26, 16 September 22Also the Dk'tronics RAM expansions offered support for C3 mode by overdriving /MREQ and A15.
Discussion here (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/dk'tronics-ram-c3-selection-464/) and here (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/464-and-ram-extension/).
d_kef
Yes, but as the discussions say there are limitations compared with the actual 6128 implementation. In the 464, reads intended to be taken from remapped memory may not come from RAM if ROM is enabled in the same address space. This is the issue which prevents FutureOS from displaying the mouse pointer correctly for example.
Quote from: ikonsgr on 10:29, 16 September 22Maybe this is feesible using CPLD, but i don't think you can do it, using CLC's from the PIC mcu... ::)
Anyway, as you also mention, this C3 mode is practically used only with future OS and CPM+, so it doesn't affect the ability to run games and other programs that require 128k ram on cpc 464 (or need 6128 fw+basic too, using the dual mode of 256k ram+2x roms),which i suppose is the "main point" for most cpc464 owners :D
If you don't currently overdrive A15 at all, you can get the DK'Tronics C3 compatibility with something like this
________ Remap <a15,a14>=01 to 11 in C3 mode
/ __ ..otherwise leave adr15 alone
/ /
assign A15 = (overdrive_mode & mode3_q & A14 & !mreq_b ) ? 1'b1 : 1'bz ;
\ \ \ \
\ \ \_______\_________________ CPU signals
\ \_________________________________ (static) mode selection FF
\______________________________________________ (static) '464 mode' (DIP SW?) settingThis would give you the 'ROM Remapped' message in Duke's C3 test, and I think that this is enough to run CPM+ on the '464.
(sorry, already posted)
I gave a little thought about supporting this "cursed" c3 mode on a CPC464:
Configuration "3":
Z80 Memory Range Sub-block
&0000-&3fff 0 (internal ram)
&4000-&7fff 3 (internal ram)
&8000-&bfff 2 (internal ram)
&c000-&ffff 3* (external ram)
I believe it might be done, but it would require quite a lot of extra parts and testing/experimantation. One problem with "backdrive" A15 from '0' to '1' is that, it will also activate &c000-&ffff range, so there must be a way of blocking this activation, in case of having initially &4000-&7fff range (e.g. A15=0, A14=1).
Then,on CPC464, MREQ is suppressed whenever a write (actually i'm using opposite logic of RD=>Read signal=1 e.g. inactive read,using directly signal WR=0, didn't work right) to &c000-&ffff range occurs,in order to avoid shadow write on internal ram at same address. This might complicate things more.
Anyway,what i thought of, is to use a 74LS123 which is a single shot monostable multivibrator that will issue a pulse of ~1us (or a bit less) to A15 whenever a trigger occurs. The trigger would be a logic combination of A14=1&A15=0& MREQ=0, and an extra signal which will be activated whenever a C3 mode is selected (possibly a pin from PIC mcu)
Of course this would also require an extra logic chip (i can't use CLC from PIC as all available are already in use), and possibly a diode and/or a transistor on the output pulse.
If this finally works, it would require a complete redesign of the board, and ofcourse there would be a cost increase.
But,to tell you the truth,i don't think that it really worth the trouble, just to be able to run symbos and futureos on a CPC464... ::)
The C3 mode is not a must have, most programs (99,9%) do not use it.
It will be more interresting to see more programs using the extra RAM.
Quote from: ikonsgr on 10:29, 17 September 22I gave a little thought about supporting this "cursed" c3 mode on a CPC464:
Configuration "3":
Z80 Memory Range Sub-block
&0000-&3fff 0 (internal ram)
&4000-&7fff 3 (internal ram)
&8000-&bfff 2 (internal ram)
&c000-&ffff 3* (external ram)
I believe it might be done, but it would require quite a lot of extra parts and testing/experimantation. One problem with "backdrive" A15 from '0' to '1' is that, it will also activate &c000-&ffff range, so there must be a way of blocking this activation, in case of having initially &4000-&7fff range (e.g. A15=0, A14=1).
Then,on CPC464, MREQ is suppressed whenever a write (actually i'm using opposite logic of RD=>Read signal=1 e.g. inactive read,using directly signal WR=0, didn't work right) to &c000-&ffff range occurs,in order to avoid shadow write on internal ram at same address. This might complicate things more.
Anyway,what i thought of, is to use a 74LS123 which is a single shot monostable multivibrator that will issue a pulse of ~1us (or a bit less) to A15 whenever a trigger occurs. The trigger would be a logic combination of A14=1&A15=0& MREQ=0, and an extra signal which will be activated whenever a C3 mode is selected (possibly a pin from PIC mcu)
Of course this would also require an extra logic chip (i can't use CLC from PIC as all available are already in use), and possibly a diode and/or a transistor on the output pulse.
If this finally works, it would require a complete redesign of the board, and ofcourse there would be a cost increase.
But,to tell you the truth,i don't think that it really worth the trouble, just to be able to run symbos and futureos on a CPC464... ::)
You've got a valid point there.
It really doesn't worth the effort.
Maybe it's easier to think about it for USIfAC III, and again it's not a must have.
Can you suggest a few 128k games in order to test the ram rom board with 464 and ga 40007?
d_kef
Quote from: d_kef on 12:10, 17 September 22Can you suggest a few 128k games in order to test the ram rom board with 464 and ga 40007?
d_kef
Star sabre and Super edge grinder comes to mind, both very good "modern era" shoot'em ups.
You can also check this list here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dVFDK63R0wTtEo1vFLDO359uj1w7iHIatQ2Xz-6erfM/edit?usp=sharing
And try games that don't work on a stock CPC464, especially the ones noted "128k".
Hi
@ikonsgr I have just seen this message in a Spanish forum, maybe you can reply..
https://www.amstrad.es/forum/viewtopic.php?p=84943#p84943
Usifac II y la memoriaMensajepor Ivan » Sab 17 Sep , 2022 6:47 pmHola,
un usuario me ha reportado una imagen ejecutando un juego mío en un Amstrad real. El juego carga de forma correcta, aparece el menú y cuando le da a la opción de 'jugar', el juego crashea dando el error 'línea no existe' (juego realizado en BASIC).
Parece un problema de memoria. Me he bajado el DSK y en el Winape funciona correctamente. El usuario carga el juego desde un Usifac así que mi pregunta es si estos cacharros utilizan parte de la memoria para emular la disquetera.
Pero.... aunque fuera el caso, es un juego sin cargas adicionales, el juego completo se carga de una sola vez. Si fuera por falta de memoria, ¿no debería fallar durante la carga?
Quote from: asertus on 20:28, 17 September 22Hi @ikonsgr
I have just seen this message in a Spanish forum, maybe you can reply..
https://www.amstrad.es/forum/viewtopic.php?p=84943#p84943
Usifac II y la memoriaMensajepor
Ivan» Sab 17 Sep , 2022 6:47 pm
Hola,
un usuario me ha reportado una imagen ejecutando un juego mío en un Amstrad real. El juego carga de forma correcta, aparece el menú y cuando le da a la opción de 'jugar', el juego crashea dando el error 'línea no existe' (juego realizado en BASIC).
Parece un problema de memoria. Me he bajado el DSK y en el Winape funciona correctamente. El usuario carga el juego desde un Usifac así que mi pregunta es si estos cacharros utilizan parte de la memoria para emular la disquetera.
Pero.... aunque fuera el caso, es un juego sin cargas adicionales, el juego completo se carga de una sola vez. Si fuera por falta de memoria, ¿no debería fallar durante la carga?
Well, this forum is in spanish, and i'm not a member too :) Anyway, the only RAM used by the various load/run routines is the 512byte @ &A9B0 which is commited as load buffer for sectors.
Well, in my opinion a proper &C3 RAM mode (= CPC6128 compatibility) is maybe not a must-have, but nevertheless very important.
Quite some software does use it, especially newer and more complex software uses this great RAM mode.
Don't forget it's a great way to access the video RAM (&C000-&FFFF) from an upper ROM directly.
In brief it's a great benefit for ROM based games,
Quote from: ikonsgr on 13:50, 17 September 22And try games that don't work on a stock CPC464, especially the ones noted "128k".
I tested the following 128K only games:
| Altered Beast |
| Deva Drifter |
| Gryzor |
| Operation Wolf |
| Edge Grinder |
| Shinobi |
| Skweek |
| Star Sabre |
| Tank |
| Target Renegade |
All of them were tested with a USIfAC II + RAM/ROM board on a CPC6128 just for reference and started without any problems.
On the CPC464 I could only test them with a M4 + RAM/ROM board with CPC 6128 Basic ROM, AMSDOS ROM and FW ROM installed.
Eight of them played without any problems.
Deva Drift started to load and after drawing the track the game froze showing a black screen.
Star Sabre froze after the loading screen.
Also when the M4 is connected to the RAM/ROM board connector it doesn't "behave" well. Some times it shows a garbled directory after the CAT command and also some artifacts on the screen (see attached photo). The games most of the time load and play normally but about 5% of the loading attempts end up to a freeze or a reset.
When the M4 is connected directly to the cable everything is good.
I re-soldered the 50 way socket on the RAM/ROM board just in case there was a dry join but thet didn't help. I also tried an external PSU but that didn't help either.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/rorQUQ5sqNPrXuDLbzXwvhNBmygd4WthbXD4RhwlOaQEZRMVqPG4y7ePvvdXjXjYx9euoY3waGqh7UMVgDVIYZnrAJqcEfwnr9z1IgBEdwYXXGX9vxfdzhzSMitwfsaVaL-GJOZaDFiDYQLZPHDNcdKsYLFRtzNM5W_O-DQQHo67dvRwWaf9WE6QkiEQaLJOO3kdcSC93hyI6stcBRTZPtB8d4LNjfKrSXj1MMij0eGXkfBTMuMc2B32slB9FIgm2OsTRgElE7m5Nt86v7syLSezB5rE01zGH4hYof0Od4JWAxtBRFzoJMtVcA4-d1Pt1QnFRhL2zfoHyjL-ehwq2V2MMNZOGfe8vYdHu0OUNcORHf37M7YdBMxbkUT_Vxl_dckRLATH9femJBIwuZWei8tAZR9KRgeeO_GRYkI6IfYM2r5UUBChOxvGHbDLcZODthqKC_Pjwfn_huAz35fKfIn7Qu0Gu_SsrNRL7IdD-KtFezjwxb0-XPTR_ax2SSWVF57MkrE2c27MDTYeKsy-RDT4ezV8CZwapebXgI7_HYVXtp-vy7NnyWmRSuc31aibQCKi7aMepbF_t7_lBdNgG6Ql5nIRMKroiEbVNgZ9u-nHxYBTrJ5-AnMN-Umjwd_PJiA0838afQUUCHysLSTVnoEgeNztGBlz2MkidRaV-nNAiDcXAnWnADq0gEiepYTiT99_D29vH2p1pUzKkcSm7yxI9SysEL-qZv6XVk5TGFGNlAr6-GyCaTETtsqp=w1680-h785-no?authuser=0)
d_kef
Quote from: d_kef on 20:20, 18 September 22I tested the following 128K only games:
| Altered Beast |
| Deva Drifter |
| Gryzor |
| Operation Wolf |
| Edge Grinder |
| Shinobi |
| Skweek |
| Star Sabre |
| Tank |
| Target Renegade |
I confirm, all these games works fine using USIFAC II with RAM/ROM board and CPC6128
Quote from: d_kef on 20:20, 18 September 22On the CPC464 I could only test them with a M4 + RAM/ROM board with CPC 6128 Basic ROM, AMSDOS ROM and FW ROM installed.
Eight of them played without any problems.
Deva Drift started to load and after drawing the track the game froze showing a black screen.
Star Sabre froze after the loading screen.
All these games run fine using USIfAC II+ram/rom board on my CPC464 (a Schneider CPC464 with 40010GA). Funny thing, star sabre was my main "test game" (used to test both 512k ram mode and 256k/2x rom mode), and always run fine even with the early test boards ::)
Quote from: d_kef on 20:20, 18 September 22Also when the M4 is connected to the RAM/ROM board connector it doesn't "behave" well. Some times it shows a garbled directory after the CAT command and also some artifacts on the screen (see attached photo). The games most of the time load and play normally but about 5% of the loading attempts end up to a freeze or a reset.
When the M4 is connected directly to the cable everything is good.
I re-soldered the 50 way socket on the RAM/ROM board just in case there was a dry join but thet didn't help. I also tried an external PSU but that didn't help either.
When you say "the M4 is connected directly to the cable", you mean the cable with 2 female IDC connectors you mentioned in eralier post?
If that's the case, and adding the fact that when M4 is connected to the RAM/ROM board connector it doesn't "behave" well, i believe it confirms that,ram/rom board might need further widen of ground/common traces, and perhaps 5v supply traces too. Internal resistance of ground traces (and sometimes 5v supply traces too),can affect all signals, and although current design seemed to be adequate for USIfAC II board needs (a small pcb with a single chip) , that's might not be the case for the quite larger M4 board, with the much more complex and powerful 32bit RISC mcu, and 5v/3.3v I/O level shifter chip.
Moreover,the fact that as you wrote:"games
most of the time load and play normally" implies that, this could be a "marginal" failure, for the tolerable internal trace resistances.
I remember that i got same erratic behaviors with the early boards (where ram/rom board's internal resistances of traces, especially for ground/5v supply, where much larger than with current ram/rom board) where using a different ribbon cable or even moving ribbon cable, could affect the functioning of the board! But when i reduce significantly all internal resistances of board traces, problem resolved.
TO MODERATORS:
There must be a problem with editing posts. Sometimes, a new post created instead of editing the current post (like this one :-) ).
Also, the recently change of not allowing to edit posts after a while, it's not a very good idea, especially for presentation threads like this one, where very often a constant update for the current state of the project is needed! Until recently, i had made 100's of updates to the 1st post of USIfAC II thread, if i couldn't do it, we would end up to an endless row of extra update posts, mixed with 100's of other posts!
So, maybe you should allow again post editing, at least for the 1st post of each thread, or for specific categories of the forum which definetely needs it, like the CPC hardware.
Hello from me as well,
First test results connecting the board to an 6128 with also an M4 board (no external power):
- Always get garbled output on CAT command. However, M4 Frontend utility shows directories correctly.
- Games seem to load correctly from M4 SD card (only ran a couple ones, though).
- SymbOS 3.1 seems to start from M4 SD, reports 320K or RAM.
- Llopis diagnostic utility (https://github.com/llopis/amstrad-diagnostics) also seems to report 320K for Upper RAM. Should this be the number?
Will continue with more testing.
Takis
Quote from: ikonsgr on 08:22, 19 September 22the recently change of not allowing to edit posts after a while, it's not a very good idea
I'm with you on this one. Yes, it prevents incidents like we had of one user going back and turning all their posts to gibberish, but it's not like that is a frequent occurrence and I can't see any of the regulars doing the same.
Quote from: Takis Kalatzis on 11:44, 19 September 22- SymbOS 3.1 seems to start from M4 SD, reports 320K or RAM.
- Llopis diagnostic utility (https://github.com/llopis/amstrad-diagnostics) also seems to report 320K for Upper RAM. Should this be the number?
If you are in 256k/2xrom dual mode, then yes, 320kb is the total available memory (64kb base+256k expansion). But if you use the default 512K ram mode, you should get 576kb in total. It would be highly unlikely (and never seen before on many tests i've made so far), to get reports of 320kb ram in the 512k mode...
Quote from: ikonsgr on 17:10, 19 September 22Quote from: Takis Kalatzis on 11:44, 19 September 22- SymbOS 3.1 seems to start from M4 SD, reports 320K or RAM.
- Llopis diagnostic utility (https://github.com/llopis/amstrad-diagnostics) also seems to report 320K for Upper RAM. Should this be the number?
If you are in 256k/2xrom dual mode, then yes, 320kb is the total available memory (64kb base+256k expansion). But if you use the default 512K ram mode, you should get 576kb in total. It would be highly unlikely (and never seen before on many tests i've made so far), to get reports of 320kb ram in the 512k mode...
I tested again today with only the memory expansion board connected. Diagnostic utility shows again 320KB RAM.
I pressed the switching button on the board and re-executed the test, the result was 192KB RAM.
Quote from: Takis Kalatzis on 09:22, 20 September 22I tested again today with only the memory expansion board connected. Diagnostic utility shows again 320KB RAM.
I pressed the switching button on the board and re-executed the test, the result was 192KB RAM.
That's most unusual, it's like as,for some reason, the upper address bit of external ram is not recognized, and instead of getting 512k and 256k you get 256k and 128k.... ???
Try to press firmly RAM chip on socket, or even unplug and plug it again.
In anycase, did you try to load games/programs and see if it works ok (even with half size...)?
Hi there :-)
What do I need to do if I want to program a ROM (using the 32x ROM mode)?
Couldn't find a hint in the manual how to actually write 16 KB into a ROM.
Quote from: GUNHED on 12:54, 20 September 22Hi there :-)
What do I need to do if I want to program a ROM (using the 32x ROM mode)?
Couldn't find a hint in the manual how to actually write 16 KB into a ROM.
You use "loadrom" utility, which can be found here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ddu058gqvu4jvn0/RAM-ROM%20BOARD.zip?dl=0
You just give rom filename and the rom number you want to be placed.
All programs are explained in User's guide: https://www.dropbox.com/s/40ocl6dzrdbksz0/Readme.pdf?dl=0
Well, of course I can disassemble your tool. But what I need is to know how to program data into a ROM - for installing FutureOS for example.
Would be great if you can share this information - except it's confidential. :)
Quote from: GUNHED on 20:01, 21 September 22Well, of course I can disassemble your tool. But what I need is to know how to program data into a ROM - for installing FutureOS for example.
Would be great if you can share this information - except it's confidential. :)
Ah, i see... you mean the actual code for placing rom files into sram
It's top secret, but i manage to "Steal" the code :) :
;; firmware function to find a RSX
.kl_find_command equ &bcd4
name_adr equ &9001
rom_number equ &9000
write"ROM.BIN"
org &8000
LD A,&FB
iN A,(&De)
or a
jp z,usb_dis_err
ld a,(name_Adr)
ld (rom_name_size),a
ld hl,name_Adr+1
ld (rom_name),hl
; ld a,&fb
; in a,(&d8) ;a=USIfAC II Rom number
; ld (set_dir+2),a
; jp jump_1
;;#######################################################
start_:
CALL set_directory
ld bc,&fbd0
call usb_cmd
ld a,&2f
out (c),a
ld c,&d9
ld a,1
out (c),a
ld c,&d0
ld a,&FB
in a,(&D3)
or a
jp nz,continue_77
ld a,"/"
out (c),a
continue_77:
ld hl,(rom_name)
ld a,(rom_name_size)
ld e,a
name_loop:
call upper_case
out (c),a
dec e
jr z,cont1
inc hl
jr name_loop
cont1:
inc hl
xor a
ld (hl),a
out (c),a
call clear_buffer
call usb_cmd
ld a,&32
out (c),a
call check_responce
ld A,&FB
in A,(&D0)
cp &14
jp nz,no_file
;;------------------------------------------------
ld a,(&9000) ;rom number to be placed in 512k SRAM
call set_ram_config
ld b,&7f
out (c),a
ld bc,&fbd0
ld hl,&4000
next_chunk:
ld e,128
call fetch
xor a
cp e
ret z ;exit from routine
copy_next_byte:
inc c
is_byte_avail:
in a,(c)
jr z,is_byte_avail
dec c
ini
inc b
dec e
jr nz,copy_next_byte
call clear_buffer ;update read file pointer
ld a,&57
out (c),a
ld a,&ab
out (c),a
ld a,&3b
out (c),a
call check_responce
in a,(c)
jr next_chunk
;------------------------------------------------------------
check_responce:
LD A,&FB
iN A,(&D1)
DEC A
JR Z,check_responce
ret
;------------------------------------------------------------
print_msg:
ld a,(hl)
or a
ret z
call &bb5a
inc hl
jr print_msg
;------------------------------------------------------------
no_file:
ld hl,no_file_msg
call print_msg
ret
;;------------------------------------------------------------------
error1:
ld hl,message1
call print_msg
ret
;;------------------------------------------------------------------
usb_dis_err:
ld hl,dis_usb_message
call print_msg
ret
;;------------------------------------------------------------------
;usb_cmd:
; ld a,&57
; out (c),a
; ld a,&ab
; out (c),a
; ret
;----------------------------------------------------------------------
upper_case:
ld a,(hl)
cp 'a' ; A-'a' C=1 if A<'a'
jr c, no_offset ; if character < 'a' is not a lowercase
cp 'z'+1 ; A-'z'+1 C=0 if A>'z'
jr nc, no_offset ; if character > 'z' is not a lowercase
sub 32 ; sub 32 to convert it to UPPER case
; ld (hl),a
no_offset:
ret
;------------------------------
clear_buffer:
inc c ;clear buffer
ld a,1
out (c),a
dec c
ret
;------------------------------
dis_usb_message:
defb "USB Device Disabled",13,10,0
no_file_msg:
defb "Disk/Image not found,or error",13,10,0
message1:
defb "Error Loading Rom File!",13,0
;------------------------------
fetch:
call clear_buffer
call usb_cmd
ld a,&3a
out (c),a
out (c),e ;number of bytes to be fetched
xor a
out (c),a
call check_responce
in a,(c)
call clear_buffer
call usb_cmd
ld a,&27
out (c),a
call check_responce
in a,(c)
jp z,close_file
call check_responce
ret
close_file:
ld e,a
ld bc,&7fc0
out (c),c
ld bc,&fbd0
call clear_buffer
call usb_cmd
ld a,&36
out (c),a
xor a
out (c),a
ret
set_ram_config:
ld e,a
and 3
ld d,a
ld a,e
and 252 ;11111100
add a,a ;double a
add a,196
add a,d ;a has the Ram configuration byte for the requested Rom number
ret
set_directory:
add_sub_dirs2:
ld bc,&fbd9
ld a,1
out (c),a
ld a,&FB
in a,(&D3)
cp "/"
jp nz,continue_usbcat2
add_sub_dirs:
;Add sub dirs
ld bc,&fbd0
; call clear_buffer
call usb_cmd3
ld a,&2f
out (c),a
ld a,&FB
in a,(&D6)
CP 2
jr nz,dir_catname
ld a,"/"
out (c),a
dir_catname:
ld a,&FB
in a,(&D3)
cp "/"
jr z,continue_subdir_loop
or a
jr z,continue_subdir_loop
out (c),a
jr dir_catname
continue_subdir_loop:
ld d,a
call usb_cmd2
ld a,&32
call usb_cmd4
cp &41
jp nz,no_file
ld a,d
or a
jr z,continue_usbcat
jp add_sub_dirs
continue_usbcat2:
ld d,"/"
ret
continue_usbcat:
ld d,0
ret
usb_cmd2:
xor a
out (c),a
usb_cmd:
inc c ;clear input buffer
ld a,1
out (c),a
dec c
usb_cmd3:
ld a,&57
out (c),a
ld a,&ab
out (c),a
ret
;-----------------------------
usb_cmd4:
out (c),a
usb_cmd5:
call check_responce2
in a,(c)
ret
check_responce2:
ld a,&FB
in a,(&D1)
dec a
jr z,check_responce2
ret
rom_name:
dw 0
rom_name_size:
defb 0
Awesome! Thank's to your great hack of the code now we all can support this new card even more! :) :) :)
BTW: Whats expected at 'name_Adr'?
For common usage however it could be nice to have something very simple just to copy 16 KB from RAM to ROM.
Well, the way I understand it is this:
To upload a 16 KB data block into an expansion ROM you do actually use expansion RAM, right?
That's done by this code I guess...
ld e,a ;A (ROM number) shall be %0001 1111 = 0-31
and a,3 ;Mask %0000 0011
ld d,a ; D = %0000 00bb
ld a,e
and a,252 ;Mask for A %1111 1100
add a,a ;double a to %??nn n000
add a,196 ;+ &C4 = %1100 0100 becomes %11nn n100
add a,d ;A has the RAM configuration byte for the requested ROM number = %11nn n1bb
Hope this helps you all. :)
Quote from: GUNHED on 16:06, 22 September 22BTW: Whats expected at 'name_Adr'?
name_adr=&9001: number of chararacters of rom filename (e.g. for "amsdos.rom"=10)
&9002-: actual characters of rom filename.
You can also use predetermined rom filenames, by declaring:
name_adr:
defb 10,"amsdos.rom"instead of:
name_adr equ &9001Quote from: GUNHED on 16:06, 22 September 22For common usage however it could be nice to have something very simple just to copy 16 KB from RAM to ROM.
I suppose loading roms (which actually are into 512k ram expansion) from the 64k basic ram,would be much easier than from file. you can have the rom file into basic ram block 3 (&c000-&ffff), set ram configuration for having block 1 (&4000-&7fff) to be the desired 16k block of 512k external ram and you just copy from block3 to block1. Such routine could be as simple as this small code:
ld a,X ;X is rom number to be placed in 512k SRAM
call set_ram_config
ld b,&7f
out (c),a
ld hl,&c000
ld de,&4000
ld bc,&ffff
ldir
ret
set_ram_config:
ld e,a
and 3
ld d,a
ld a,e
and 252 ;11111100
add a,a ;double a
add a,196
add a,d ;a has the Ram configuration byte for the requested Rom number
retNow, as i note in user's guide,you can also easily load specific roms, using this small basic code:
5 MEMORY &7FFF:LOAD"ROM.BIN",&8000
10 a$="ROM_NAME.ROM":num=XX
20 GOSUB 200
40 end
200 POKE &9000,NUM:POKE &9001,LEN(A$)
210 FOR I=1 TO LEN(A$):POKE &9001+I,ASC(MID$(A$,I,1)):NEXT I
220 CALL &8000
230 RETURNNumber 'XX' can be 0-31 for 32X ROM mode, or 0-1 for Dual 256k/2X ROM mode.
Lines 10-20 can be repeated for as many roms you want to load.
And of course, "Rom.bin" is the binary produced by the assembly code shown before.
Quote from: GUNHED on 17:08, 22 September 22Well, the way I understand it is this:
To upload a 16 KB data block into an expansion ROM you do actually use expansion RAM, right?
That's done by this code I guess...
ld e,a ;A (ROM number) shall be %0001 1111 = 0-31
and a,3 ;Mask %0000 0011
ld d,a ; D = %0000 00bb
ld a,e
and a,252 ;Mask for A %1111 1100
add a,a ;double a to %??nn n000
add a,196 ;+ &C4 = %1100 0100 becomes %11nn n100
add a,d ;A has the RAM configuration byte for the requested ROM number = %11nn n1bb
Hope this helps you all. :)
Exaclty! This is the code that converts the desired rom number (0-31) to the actual number that needs to be called for setting ram mangement using an OUT &7F00,X . This will activate a specific &16kb block of the 512k ram expansnion (which will act as the required rom). It will end up activating a ram configuration mode (http://cpctech.cpc-live.com/docs/rampage.html) between 4-7.
Dear all,
I can confirm that the 512k memory expansion card is working fine with an Amstrad CPC 6128+ (plus) machine in 512kb memory expansion mode.
Tested with many games, ram test and Symbos too.
Also working well together with Gotek floppy emulator.
Photos: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/10Xig4E2S3kUZsXP9A32RMaIC6IVgGKsI?usp=sharing
Thank you John for the card!
Cheers,
Csaba
Quote from: leexus on 09:12, 28 September 22Dear all,
I can confirm that the 512k memory expansion card is working fine with an Amstrad CPC 6128+ (plus) machine in 512kb memory expansion mode.
Tested with many games, ram test and Symbos too.
Also working well together with Gotek floppy emulator.
Photos: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/10Xig4E2S3kUZsXP9A32RMaIC6IVgGKsI?usp=sharing
Thank you John for the card!
Cheers,
Csaba
Where RAM expansions typically cause problems on the 464+/6128+ is when the ASIC is paged in and extra memory is currently paged in the the &4000 - &7FFF range.
Unless it has been specifically designed to recognise the ASIC lock/unlock sequence and paging, writes to the ASIC will typically also write through to expansion RAM, corrupting the contents.
Is there a RAM expansion which does do that at all?
I have tried the latest version of SymbOS (for storage devices) from USB and I get a black screen after the presentation appears. Is there any way to run it in USIfAC II uncompressed on USB without having to do it from ROM?
Quote from: andycadley on 13:16, 28 September 22Where RAM expansions typically cause problems on the 464+/6128+ is when the ASIC is paged in and extra memory is currently paged in the the &4000 - &7FFF range.
Unless it has been specifically designed to recognise the ASIC lock/unlock sequence and paging, writes to the ASIC will typically also write through to expansion RAM, corrupting the contents.
Ouch...
Is it in "real life" a real issue? Or do developers just need to be aware of it?
Programs that don't unlock the ASIC and don't use the paged memory are not affected, right?
And programs that do use it and also use a RAM extension can prevent paging in memory and the ASIC at the same time. Or at least not write/read to/from that RAM part while the ASIC is paged in.
Quote from: eto on 09:31, 29 September 22Quote from: andycadley on 13:16, 28 September 22Where RAM expansions typically cause problems on the 464+/6128+ is when the ASIC is paged in and extra memory is currently paged in the the &4000 - &7FFF range.
Unless it has been specifically designed to recognise the ASIC lock/unlock sequence and paging, writes to the ASIC will typically also write through to expansion RAM, corrupting the contents.
Ouch...
Is it in "real life" a real issue? Or do developers just need to be aware of it?
Programs that don't unlock the ASIC and don't use the paged memory are not affected, right?
And programs that do use it and also use a RAM extension can prevent paging in memory and the ASIC at the same time. Or at least not write/read to/from that RAM part while the ASIC is paged in.
Well it only affects 128K programs that write to the ASIC registers, so that's already a pretty minimal subset. Developers could work around it most of the time, if they've planned ahead of time for it (and know it's an issue, because it doesn't happen with a 6128+'s internal RAM or an internal RAM upgrade on a 464+).
As to software out there in the wild, I know my unfinished Jet Set Willy+ will probably suffer from this (and because it mostly executes with one of the more obscure banking configurations isn't easily rectified). I guess it's possible there may be other things (but 128 only Plus software is niche).
Quote from: shacpc on 06:50, 29 September 22I have tried the latest version of SymbOS (for storage devices) from USB and I get a black screen after the presentation appears. Is there any way to run it in USIfAC II uncompressed on USB without having to do it from ROM?
I don't own an USIfAC II now, but I hope to get one, then I can have a look at this issue.
Quote from: GUNHED on 14:27, 28 September 22Is there a RAM expansion which does do that at all?
I believe that
@TotO was working on an updated version of his X-Mem expansion to make it fully Plus compatible for this reason. Not sure if he's still working on it or not as last time I contacted him about it he was still prototyping.
Quote from: Maniac on 10:41, 30 September 22I believe that @TotO was working on an updated version of his X-Mem expansion to make it fully Plus compatible for this reason. Not sure if he's still working on it or not as last time I contacted him about it he was still prototyping.
The X-MEM+ (rev 2.0) PCB was designed last year, but not the time to build them as I'm working on ALCON 2020 and the Play2CPC instead. It is not only Plus compatible, but allows to set the ROM/RAM start addresses with dip switches on its back.
I have a 464 and connected usifacII + 512K RAM Expansion. My question is simple, I want that when starting the 464 it appears directly in Basic 1.1. ; pressing the 464/6128 switch on the board I have not been able to get it to happen. I haven't understood the inkonsgr tutorial on the board well and I request a basic tutorial for people like me, step by step, to turn on the 464 and the basic 1.1 appears.
finally, I want to know if anyone knows how to run SYMBOS directly from the USB, without inserting it as a ROM, in short, as if it were a program like any other. if possible, also to explain a little how to do it.
Finally i receive and test the new boards:
RAM-ROM_NEW.jpg
The main difference is the much wider traces for Gnd and 5v supply, which hopefully will resolve the issues with previous board, mainly having problems when a M4 board is plugged.
I also use 512KB Ram in smd chip, so board size is quite smaller now (from ~10cm length to ~8,5cm ,width is the same)
With my poor technical skills, i'm wondering:
"HOW TO" use it with usifacc 2 in order to run Symbos or Future os
Someone could help with a "step by step" ?
About FutureOS: (for questions you can always PM / Email me anyway) Here a generic 'what to do'. First of all you need the space of four 16 KB ROMs. So in this case you need to drive the card as ROM card.
Then you an get the FutureOS installer from www.futureos.de and pick your language version. Well, the installer supports lots of expansions, but this one probably not, because I don't have to data how to write to the ROM now.
Therefore you can use the FutureOS installer to select your desired ROM numbers. Only ROM A must have a number between 1 and 15. The ROMs B, C and D can have any ROM number / ROM select.
Eventually use the 'ROM burn' method for this card to install the OS ROMs.
Please don't hesitate to ask if there are problems. :) :) :)
As futureos need 4 roms, you can only use the RAM/ROM board as Rom board without any ram expansion (because dual mode support only 2 roms).
However, ULIfAC board (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/ulifacusb-mass-storage-wifi-512kb-ram32xrom-board256k-ram16x-rom-board!/) offers in dual mode 256kb ram + 16X Rom board,so you can have futureos roms and 256kb ram expansion ;-)
Thanks both for your anwser. Both future Os and the expansions are so amazing !
So if in understand : i can't run Future OS decently with this expasion board and my USFIDAC 2, as i need both 4 ROM and (xxk ?) RAM. Right ?
Given the fact i'd want to use if for musical purpose (using AY chip in midi with drum machine an synth) here it the hardware setting i imagine :
Expansion board
https://www.seeedstudio.com/Amstrad-CPC-Computer-Expansion-Board-g-1136534
+ this multi purpose board (for RAM)
+ My Usifac 2 (serial port to connect to Arkos 2,usb to load files)
+ Musical extension (planned Speak & sid with midi functions)
+ ROM board (wich one ?)
OR
Expansion board
+ ULIFAC : that could run Future OS)
+ Speaks & Sid
Obviously, that would be easier. But i have to sell both my USIFAC and my mutli prupose board, in order to swap to this configuration.
Hello,
Another suggestion for SymbOS (I haven't tested FutureOS with USIfAC II).
We are not obliged to use the version in ROM files.
It's possible to download the full version in AMSDOS files/directories.
In this case, there's no need to use a romboard. 😉
It's quite simple:
- Download the compressed SymbOS CPC Package archive here : http://www.symbos.de/download.htm
- Inside, you will find another archive file : SymbOS-CPC-MassStorage.zip
Simply extract all content (directories and files) to the root of the USIfAC II USB key.
And launch SymbOS in direct access mode with the following commands:
|ENRUN"symLoading is almost instantaneous! 😉
Many Thanks Poulette. I will try that with the 512K extension (any comand to pass ?)
I suppose the same kind of process would be possible with FutureOS (with the concern that i would have to load the OS each time) ?
Quote from: Maitresinh on 11:27, 29 March 23Thanks both for your anwser. Both FutureOS and the expansions are so amazing !
So if in understand : i can't run FutureOS decently with this expasion board and my USFIDAC 2, as i need both 4 ROM and (xxk ?) RAM. Right ?
On the CPC6128 and 6128plus you have 128 KB of RAM, this is enough for FutureOS. However a bit more RAM is helpful. :)
Finally,i had a chance lately to work with a M4 board (board rev 2.5c with latest fw). I don't know why, but this board stubbornly refuses to function properly with my RAM/ROM board:
CPC464.jpgCPC4642.jpgCPC6128.jpgCPC46461.jpg
I really can't understand why this happening, M4 uses a couple of I/O ports but they are quite different from the ones used by RAM/ROM board. Also, i've tried the M4 on a bare ram/rom board (only with power supply jumper) and it worked fine, so signal traces of the board are not causing the problem, only when PIC and SRAM join in, M4 starts to malfunction...
Anyway, i played with the board for a few hours, tried a lot of games and various functions of the M4 board.
What i really enjoyed was the INCREDIBLE loading speeds, the ability to load cpr files (i tried 5-6 cpr, not all load succesfuly) and the hack menu where you can "grab" a snapshot! :)
What i didn't know though, was that the dsk image access on M4, is done by extracting the files from dsk image into it's own ram, and loads from there, there is no actual 765 FDC emulation or something. So, although the speed is unbelievable (it's what we can call "instant" loading :) ) there are 2 major drawbacks:
- You can't load any game/program that bypass amsdos and uses direct track/sector loaders (and there are quite a lot, at least ~15% of games i tried, refused to load or pause upon loading process and also all demos too)
- You can't write into a dsk image.
USIfAC II/ ULIfAC dsk image access on the other hand, is done by low level FDC emulation, which is quite slower (usually ~10%-20% faster than a real gotek/floppy drive), but you can load almost everything, and you can also write into the dsk image.
Another thing i found out is that M4 board, is a bit delicate, because of the smd parts it uses, you must handle it with great care. As i never had such issues with USIfAC II (buttons, switches and all parts i'm using are not smd, so they are bigger and more robust, especially in "rough" treatment), it seems i was a bit careless and i've already got off the smd pause button (which i resolder it), and almost peel off the sd card case once(which stands out from the rest of the board)! :D
Also the use of 50pin edge connector directly soldered onto M4 board (instead of having a short ribbon cable attached to the board) is not something i liked. As you frequently need to press buttons on the board, all the push force is transferred directly to the edge connector attached to amstrad, not a good thing,in the long run. Especially with CPC464, which has the edge connector rather high and in a slight angle, every time i wanted to press a button, i grab the board with my other hand, otherwise board moved slightly up-down.
Finally, the edge connector plugged REALLY tight on CPC expansion port! Of course this could be a good thing (to avoid loose connections) but it was the first time in my life, i had to grab the board from both sides and apply quite a strong force in order to remove it!
So, to sum up my experience with M4 board in 2 words:
- pros: Incredible speed, loads cpr and roms, save snapshots
- cons: No 765 FDC emulation & no dsk image write ability, rather delicate board-need to handle with care.
Again, Respect to master duke, for his lightning speed M4 board (and a bit sad that it doesn't like my ram/rom board)! :)
Can you switch all ROMs off on ULIfAC (so everything is RAM). Then it should not interfere with M4 card. :)
Personally i like the direct connector of the M4, this way if fits into the Mother X4. :)
Quote from: GUNHED on 15:11, 06 April 23Can you switch all ROMs off on ULIfAC (so everything is RAM). Then it should not interfere with M4 card. :)
This is not about ULIfAC,but M4 connected on the RAM/ROM board. USIfAC/ULIfAC and M4 can't work together anyway.
Quote from: GUNHED on 15:11, 06 April 23Personally i like the direct connector of the M4, this way if fits into the Mother X4.
Indeed and plugging m4 at the end of the MX4 edge connector, you have a nice reto-train ~a meter long :)
It would be much nicer to have a 50pin connector and plug vertically in one of MX4 idc connectors. Btw, i think there are versions of M4 with pin connectors too.. ::)
Yeah, perfection ... is such a thing ;) :) :)
Hi! Awesome board,
@ikonsgr did it again!
A few questions, btw :
1 - Will this board allow me to run a 512K ROM game, like a .CPR file (Example : Alcon 2020 - https://abalore.com/alcon2020.html)?
2 - Can the board be used as a single ROM board to run a Diagnostic ROM on power on, or it needs the machine to be fully operational?
Thanks in advance!
Quote from: Zeit on 17:44, 02 May 23Α few questions, btw :
1 - Will this board allow me to run a 512K ROM game, like a .CPR file (Example : Alcon 2020 - https://abalore.com/alcon2020.html)?
Unfortunately, for some unknown reason cpr games doesn't seem to work (btw, i've tried Alcon cpr on M4 board and it didn't load correctly either).
Quote from: Zeit on 17:44, 02 May 232 - Can the board be used as a single ROM board to run a Diagnostic ROM on power on, or it needs the machine to be fully operational?
You can't use the rom board mode to "cold boot" from a diagnostic rom (or any rom, other than the onboard amstrad rom), because there is no way to "preload" the lower rom to sram memory before booting amstrad! :) But what you might can do is to use the external power connector of the ram/rom board, boot amstrad once, load a rom, then power off amstrad, and since ram/rom board uses the external power, you might be able to "cold boot" amstrad using the rom previously loaded ;)
But for non bootable amstrad, i'm afraid this can only be done, using a rom board with real rom chips, that can act as boot lower rom too.
Quote from: ikonsgr on 19:09, 02 May 23Quote from: Zeit on 17:44, 02 May 23Α few questions, btw :
1 - Will this board allow me to run a 512K ROM game, like a .CPR file (Example : Alcon 2020 - https://abalore.com/alcon2020.html)?
Unfortunately, for some unknown reason cpr games doesn't seem to work (btw, i've tried Alcon cpr on M4 board and it didn't load correctly either).
Cartridges use ROM slots 128+, along with some additional logic to map certain of those pages onto the lower ROM, ROM1 and ROM7. So you can't just run them by putting the contents in standard ROM slots
Quote from: andycadley on 19:47, 02 May 23Cartridges use ROM slots 128+, along with some additional logic to map certain of those pages onto the lower ROM, ROM1 and ROM7. So you can't just run them by putting the contents in standard ROM slots
You can't imagine how many hours i've spent trying to load these @#$! cpr files using ULIfAC and the ram/rom board!
Especailly for alcon i used directions from the creator himself (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/programming/how-to-transfer-roms-to-rom-board-from-cpr-file-for-alcon-future-os-spacem-etc/) abalore, but still, i couldn't make it work, despite everything was set correctly... :(
The mapping to cartridge banks looks something like (temporarily ignoring RMR2):
CB00 -> Lower ROM and ROM 80h
CB01 -> ROM 0 and ROM 81h
CB02 -> ROM 7 and ROM 82h
CB03 -> ROM 83h
CB04 -> ROM 84h
CB05 -> ROM 85h
etc
In theory Alcon shouldn't need the ROM0/7 extra mappings and shouldn't care about ROM &80 so mapping CB00 into the Lower ROM and CB01+ into ROMs 1 and above should probably work. But it's always possible there is a bug somewhere that means that mapping is required (I'd guess it was only tested on a real Plus/GX or Play2CPC which would conceal any such bug since they implement the full mapping scheme).
Cartridges converted using a DSK->CPR tool however, which is most of them, will almost certainly need the dual mapping scheme in place to work properly.
Quote from: andycadley on 09:30, 03 May 23The mapping to cartridge banks looks something like (temporarily ignoring RMR2):
CB00 -> Lower ROM and ROM 80h
CB01 -> ROM 0 and ROM 81h
CB02 -> ROM 7 and ROM 82h
CB03 -> ROM 83h
CB04 -> ROM 84h
CB05 -> ROM 85h
etc
In theory Alcon shouldn't need the ROM0/7 extra mappings and shouldn't care about ROM &80 so mapping CB00 into the Lower ROM and CB01+ into ROMs 1 and above should probably work. But it's always possible there is a bug somewhere that means that mapping is required (I'd guess it was only tested on a real Plus/GX or Play2CPC which would conceal any such bug since they implement the full mapping scheme).
Cartridges converted using a DSK->CPR tool however, which is most of them, will almost certainly need the dual mapping scheme in place to work properly.
Isn't it
CB02 -> ROM 82h
CB03 -> ROM 7 and ROM 83h
?
I couldn't find the specs but the original cartridges have AMSDOS on page 3, not page 2
Quote from: eto on 07:50, 04 May 23Quote from: andycadley on 09:30, 03 May 23The mapping to cartridge banks looks something like (temporarily ignoring RMR2):
CB00 -> Lower ROM and ROM 80h
CB01 -> ROM 0 and ROM 81h
CB02 -> ROM 7 and ROM 82h
CB03 -> ROM 83h
CB04 -> ROM 84h
CB05 -> ROM 85h
etc
In theory Alcon shouldn't need the ROM0/7 extra mappings and shouldn't care about ROM &80 so mapping CB00 into the Lower ROM and CB01+ into ROMs 1 and above should probably work. But it's always possible there is a bug somewhere that means that mapping is required (I'd guess it was only tested on a real Plus/GX or Play2CPC which would conceal any such bug since they implement the full mapping scheme).
Cartridges converted using a DSK->CPR tool however, which is most of them, will almost certainly need the dual mapping scheme in place to work properly.
Isn't it
CB02 -> ROM 82h
CB03 -> ROM 7 and ROM 83h
?
I couldn't find the specs but the original cartridges have AMSDOS on page 3, not page 2
My mistake, you are correct - it's clearly been too long since I last looked at it.
The full details are in https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Arnold_V_Specs_Revised#Enhanced_ROM_cartridge_support
If you were to make a 4mb ram + 4mb rom board, what price could it be made for?
Quote from: zhulien on 07:18, 02 June 23If you were to make a 4mb ram + 4mb rom board, what price could it be made for?
Well,i don't think there are SRAM chips larger than 512K so in order to have 4MB RAM+ 4Mb Rom board would require 16 sram chips in total, which ,apart from the extra cost of the chips themselves, it would need a much larger board (maybe 3 times larger than current board), much more time to solder all these chips, and much greater chance of having 1-2 bad sram chips (which will need to remove and solder new ones)...
So, practically i don't think such a board could be cheap (or worth the trouble to make it at all), at least not without using larger sram chips (although as i already mentioned,i think you can't find larger 8bit sram chips than 512kb) and a more "professional" soldering, using stencil and an IR Oven. :)
There are 16MBit SRAM ICs (8bit data bus) in TSOP packaging with 5V support. So one IC for 2MB or two ICs for 4MB with the same or even less space required for a 512KB RAM expansion with a DIP SRAM.
Going from 512K to 4MB will not require a lot more logic but of course it will be more expensive and harder to assemble due to the SRAM IC(s).
Still the question is: WHAT ON EARTH YOU NEED 4096Kb RAM and....256XROMs? It's like having a today PC with.... 4096GB RAM! :)
576 or 1024kB ought to be enough for anybody.
Quote from: eto on 17:29, 28 June 23There are 16MBit SRAM ICs (8bit data bus) in TSOP packaging with 5V support. So one IC for 2MB or two ICs for 4MB with the same or even less space required for a 512KB RAM expansion with a DIP SRAM.
Going from 512K to 4MB will not require a lot more logic but of course it will be more expensive and harder to assemble due to the SRAM IC(s).
You are right,i manage to find such SRAM chips: https://au.element14.com/cypress-semiconductor/cy62167ell-45zxi/sram-16mbit-2mx8bit-1mx16bit-tsopi/dp/2767921
And i found them in rather cheap price on aliexpress: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002071813249.html
But,apart from being practically useless to have such ridiculous amount of RAM/ROM for Amstrad CPC, the SMD TSOP package they come to, have very narrow pin spaces (btw,i also use SMD for 512kb Sram chip on ULIfAC, but they are in SOP package, which can be soldered rather easy, even without using extra flux ;) ), which makes it very difficult to solder it by hand (and would also need to use good & expensive flux too).
However, what i might do in the future is to redesign ULIfAC with 2X512K SRAM chips on board, and have 512KB extra RAM+ 32XRom board at the same time :)
MSX can have up to 32mb RAM, surely it would be nice to have half that on a CPC :D
I think the ROM support in existing boards is pretty awesome. 32 is the current max in available boards, but 256 ROMS are possible.
Quote from: zhulien on 11:44, 12 July 23MSX can have up to 32mb RAM, surely it would be nice to have half that on a CPC :D
Last time I checked even the seller of such a MSX RAM expansion did not have an idea what this could be used for. Just for curiosity: What do you have in mind that that could be done by having more memory than the usual 512K or 1MB expansions?
Quote from: eto on 11:58, 12 July 23Quote from: zhulien on 11:44, 12 July 23MSX can have up to 32mb RAM, surely it would be nice to have half that on a CPC :D
Last time I checked even the seller of such a MSX RAM expansion did not have an idea what this could be used for. Just for curiosity: What do you have in mind that that could be done by having more memory than the usual 512K or 1MB expansions?
Programming only - currently my memory management routines are partly working and theoretically able to handle 16mb, but... I only have 4mb, 2mb and 512kb exansions - if I had a real 16mb expansion, then i could verify my code on it :D
I intend my compiler to be able to compile large programs - I will call it the Julian Sideways Memory Model which I touched on in the RASM thread - but as no assembler currently caters for it at present, looks like I will need to make my compiler generate actual z80 code, not assembly language.
Instead of a usual memory map of 64kb address space for Z80 and lots of 64kb from the application point of view, it basically goes sideways and interbank calls are packed far addresses (likely using rst 6 <address> to invoke the memory banking routing). The program stack is in main 64kb (not sideways). Of course I don't need 16mb... just that's the maximum addressible with 256byte aligned memory when addressing using the packed far addresses.
I am hoping to allow coders of utilities (and perhaps games) to use all that memory seamlessly without having to think too much (they still need a bit of thought).
Quote from: zhulien on 11:44, 12 July 23MSX can have up to 32mb RAM, surely it would be nice to have half that on a CPC :D
What is your usage of 32MB RAM? I can offer 4GB for the CPC. :-\
Quote from: Prodatron on 13:31, 29 June 23576 or 1024kB ought to be enough for anybody.
Please leave the decision to "anybody".
Quote from: ikonsgr on 12:09, 29 June 23Still the question is: WHAT ON EARTH YOU NEED 4096Kb RAM and....256XROMs? It's like having a today PC with.... 4096GB RAM! :)
Well, some of us need more RAM for more complex software. And btw.: you guys buy that kind of PCs all the time, don't you? :laugh:
Quote from: GUNHED on 17:43, 12 July 23Please leave the decision to "anybody".
Close to 40 years of CPC, and 512K is not standard, because "anybody" got this decision to be only 64/128K.
/offtopic...
It's so funny in the CPC scene: All the time somebody wants to tell the community what they don't need or what can't be done. That's treating the community like a bunch of babies, who need to be told everything (alternative would be some sort of intended dictatorship, but I don't wan't to even get into this).
So why do some few always tell us what we don't need or what we can't do ???
Let me tell you my opinion: Their software or hardware is just limited. So they want everybody else to stick to that unnecessary and crazy limitations.
The best example of such a person / behaviour is Bill Gates and his 640 KB RAM barrier.
....end-of-offtopic/
Quite a ludicrous statement.
TBH, in reality: The only existing software, which supports more then 128K for real running code, is SymbOS.
Everything else is either streaming stuff or theory.
Zhuliens project is maybe interesting.
But currently it's only theory as there is nothing we can see in reality.
IMHO if you like to realize such a project it is better to finish something and have a working demonstration. Instead of just talking about it too much and ask hardware developers to build stuff before you start with your imaginary super system.
What's about demonstrating it first with "only" 576K or 1MB or 4MB first? Show some useful examples, which are already running and working? Why don't you do this first?
When you just want to stream stuff (which is the only use case of current 2-4MB expansions) it's better to support big mass storage devices. This is faster than first load stuff into memory and then stream it from memory. Of course it's your bad luck, if your DOS can't stream stuff from mass storage (or doesn't support "modern" mass storage at all). Hint: Use UniDOS! It's just great!
If you are not able to support fast streaming from mass storage you may cry for a lot of RAM. But if this is the only reason, then I don't see much sense for big ram expansions.
Still there could be games which use a lot of animations for sprites, or big maps, tiles, graphics in general, which would be cool. But would they fill more than 1-2MB? I doubt it. But if yes: Why doesn't someone release such games, as we already have a lot of 1-2MB expansions since years.
like: "I finished a great game, which requires 16mb ram, but as Ikonsgr and Toto are not building big memory expansions, I can't release it"
@Prodatron I like coding programming related utilities and systems stuff - I recently compiled a z80 c compiler which generates z80 source but it doesn't fit in the CPC 64k memory map - however I can make it build itself in a certain way with symbol tables and buffers that fit within the CPC's 64k memory map - but the compiler source itself is larger than what is available - if i can understand it's source enough to compile itself side-ways then it will fit 100% and if I am capable of doing that (it is harder to adapt other's code than your own when it wasn't designed to do that in the first place) - then it can compile any sized application up to 16mb sideways as long as the symbol table is not exhausted - but then a second enhancement would likely to allow the symbol table to be on the heap sideways also so there is no longer any limitations within that 16mb space other than byte alignment - and direct memory access for far data / functions.
Point noted on the existing expansions - I have a variety of them for testing and that is enough for development - let's see how things develop - and if I get a compiler of a sort in a usable state and we need more than 4mb physical memory for something that people want to use - I guess it will one day happen. As you know with your development of Symbos, it took years to get to where it is and you should be commended for your dedication. It would be great if there were those in the CPC community that did like to work as a team like there are on some other platforms... some things likely could happen faster if that was the case.
Quote from: zhulien on 07:45, 13 July 23we need more than 4mb physical memory for something that people want to use - I guess it will one day happen.
Once there is a clear purpose, somebody will build it.
Keep in mind that your software must be a true game changer. Sure, a few people will buy it just because it exists. but the majority needs a good reason to spend >100€ for a RAM expansion. Something that brings the CPC to a new era. Maybe something that doesn't exist on a PC, it will just work on a CPC (that would be fantastic) - or something that exists somewhere else but can now work on a CPC in such a great way that we still feel the nostalgia - just so much better than what we can get with the limitation of 4MB.
I have build hundreds of 1MB Z-MEM expansion since 2016 to use with SymbOS and the M4 board (ROM).
The other usages I know for it are FutureOS and Bad Arnold (demo). The 2MB version was not produced.
Quote from: Prodatron on 21:32, 12 July 23Quite a ludicrous statement.
TBH, in reality: The only existing software, which supports more then 128K for real running code, is SymbOS.
Very, true that is indeed - as you say - quite a ludicrous statement. :P
That's because they think having 64gb in their PC graphics card has a value and a RAM expansion in their CPC doesn't - yet they would learn a sh*t load more if they tried to learn something on their CPC than most ever would with their 64gb PC graphics card. To me... learning is the CPC killer app!
Don't think people are dumb, because they have GB on PC and not MB on CPC. :-\
The difference are all the softwares that requiring memory. That all. A thousand of users with 512K for real and on emulators (up to 4MB), and nothing done to fill them. No need to search false arguments to have more RAM. Think to use mass storage too.
What was done on MSX with 512K, and with 32MB ?
You name it: A Thousand of users, not programmers... :-\
I've added a new version of ROM.BIN file: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/pf78urbcbgg0ntx1gdvuk/ROM_binary_for_rev7.zip?rlkey=am06imhws9jz1rmj5wveynnhw&dl=0
You should use this version of ROM.BIN file, if you have the latest rev7 firmware on USIfAC II.
@ikonsgr Hi John
? Ok what do i do with the ROM.BIN ?
Where do i put it, do i flash something with it ?? What ??
Thanks
Keep Safe
Ray
@Audronic ,it's the main program that copies roms to board's SRAM, you can find it inside the zip file with the utilities for the board:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/iyptzad2cs6byq5/AADwoDLQwRDmQQoQ9dCpaxi7a?dl=0
So, if you have a USIfAC II with rev7 fw connected to the RAM/ROM board, you should replace the rom.bin file with the new version.
@ikonsgr Oops
Sorry John
I completely missed the Stand alone RAM-ROM Board that can be used with the CPC464
I never purchased one ?
Thanks for the update anyway
Keep Safe
Ray
I've uploaded an update of rom.bin file (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/7pamv46i03lj1udqci57a/ROM_binary_for_rev_7c.zip?rlkey=235jlkvll0klxor3wxhu6fnel&dl=0), you should use this one if you have a USIfAC II with the new rev.7c firmware
Hi! I'm trying to load a dsk in a 464 using 256K Ram+2X Rom board and USIfAC II (6g). With all the RAM_ROM BOARD content in a USB I follow this steps:
- run"6128 (changes mode to USIfAC II Enhanced (6g) + 256Kb Ram + 2x Rom BOARD -> BASIC 2.1
- |mg,"TEST.DSK" -> Ready
- |FDC -> Ready
- cat -> And it throws Syntax error
Am I doing something wrong?