Pace RS232 Interface New Pace RS232 - Useful Treasure or Obsolete Anachronism?
Amstrad Serial Interface - CPCWiki (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Amstrad_Serial_Interface) You Voted - Useful Treasure
Hi Retro Buffs. Having caught the retro-repair-bug I have gone all out assault on ebay and come up with a magic black box, a Pace RS232 (dry stored for 19 yrs) with 2 Commstar ROMS. Works on my 464 but not the 6128. I had some dream about finding an old modem and somehow browsing some secret micro forum, but having read all the technical jargon on these forums, this is probably beyond my capabilities on the current internet.
There is mention that it could be used to connect 2 CPC's, or possibly to a PC, but that also seems to be staggeringly complicated for a Basic/html user. AMSSIO software combined with Amstrad Pace RS232 serial Interface on 464 (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/amssio-software-combined-with-amstrad-pace-rs232-serial-interface-on-464/msg24944/#msg24944)
So what then is this magic box of wonders any good for in 2012? I read in the back of the manual that the ROMs could be replaced, so maybe I could use this as a small ROM box with a word processor and disk manager? Otherwise, it's to the display cabinet with you!
This model and manual is not featured in the CPC Wiki. I pdf'ed the manual and will upload the pics if Gryzor wants them.
Chiz, Spooks
(http://www.spookspring.com/images/DSC09761.JPG) (http://www.spookspring.com/images/DSC09761.JPG)
Quote from: spookspring on 22:06, 16 September 12
this is probably beyond my capabilities on the current internet.
Yes, let's hope they will update the Internet soon so it can run on the CPC :D
Just kidding. I have an RS232 myself (don't remember if it's the Amstrad one or a Pace), never used it but it looks nice. Thanks for the manual - I actually emailed you yesterday morning, did you get it?
T
I used the Pace for the CPC6128 quite a coulple of times. It also has ROMs onboard.
Write some software and use it as a MIDI (Musical Instrument Digital Interface) control keyboards and drum machines etc. Apart from that basic comms stuff that is all I could think of that you could use it for.
I think you should have a go just trying it out. Most desktop PCs from even a couple of years ago still have a real serial port on, if not a USB serial port is usually pretty cheap.
You might find it to be a nice easy way to get programs onto the CPC from the PC for instance...
That said, I bought a similar serial board (I think I got the next version on) at a car boot sale about 2 months ago and still haven't even plugged it into a CPC yet to see if it works!
Can't this be used to control some machine tool with numerical control ?
older models are better I guess... or a modern PC too. ;)
Also if you are into Robotic.
What are the applications to handle this thing ?
Also what are the application to channel programs (.dsk) on the CPC or directly into RAM ?
Can you load some "single load games" with this ?
is RS232 well supported ? I suppose Future OS can do it.
Still it must be better to have a 6128 for this.
Weren't there a pair of "network multiplayer" games on CPC ?
I guess those have a terminal program on board?
Aehm.... I try to say it nicely... I do miss the time to try out everything you can do with an RS232, but I do not miss ideas what to do with it ;) It's good to have one :)
(http://www.spookspring.com/images/upper-pace-rs232.jpg)
(http://www.spookspring.com/images/pace-rs232-lower.jpg)
See, in here we have two replaceable ROMS. (Commstar is a browser for the internet).
It says in the manual they are replaceable, so I'm going to put...erm a PARADOS in there and see what happens.
Also there is room for two other ROMS! But looks like it needs a lot of other components to connect it.
Please dump the roms, perhaps they are different to the ones dumped already.
I am interested in the 1179 numbers on them, it may be a revision number.
I like your idea to reuse the board to host some other roms.
I think the board uses rom slot 2 and 3.
K go all tech on me and tell me how to dump a ROM, or come round and DIY!
Hey, it can take up to four ROMs. Install the sockets and those two 2K2 Resistors and the ceramic capacitors (100nf should be fine) and you should be good to go. A nice 4 way ROMBoard :) It looks like the ROM Numbers can be selected with the jumpers A,B,C and D, so you'd have to add a jumper to A and B.
To dump the ROMs you're going to need an EPROM Burner. Or send the ROMs to someone who has one.
Bryce
Edit: I just noticed it has a 0-7, 8-15 jumper too. But I'd leave it at 0-7 anyway, especially if you intend using it on a 464.
Hi,
You should be able to dump the ROMS by using the "ROMGET.BAS" software provided by March Vieth ! ! !
Go to the following link, and choose the "cpcemu-dos-x86-1.5.zip"
CPCemu Downloads (http://www.cpc-emu.org/download.html)
In the ZIP file You'll find a a program called "ROMGET.BAS"
That's the program I have used to dump all my roms ! ! !
Yours
Terje Grind
NORWAY
Dumping ROMs:
-Select ROM
-Bank ROM in
-Copy ROM from &C000 to &4000
-Save 16 KB to disc
-Make a DSK
-Arnoldemu is happy!
Now if you already would have MAXAM in ROM it would be easy. But else you can use any kind of Assembler to compile such a program in a minute.
Now, do it twice, for ROM number 2 and then 3 (that's my boards configuration, it oversea).
According to the jumpers on the PCB, his ROMs are set to ROM 4 and ROM 6.
Bryce.
May well be, didn't check... however, the most easy way to read this ROMs (or any ROM) is to download the ROManager:
http://www.colorado-boys-muenchen.de/users/futureos/files/MF_ROManager.zip (http://www.colorado-boys-muenchen.de/users/futureos/files/MF_ROManager.zip)
Start the ROManager (filename in archive is: 'MegaFlashROManager_4_BASIC_V1.44.dsk') and use 'File' --> 'Save 1 ROM'.
That's it! 8)
(Use joystick; cursorkeys, copy, return, esc for usage of the program).
so this model also include a ROM box...
4 chips possible I guess you can put 4x16k ROMs on this ?
Can you put RAM instead ?
Those cards look very clean.
Is it possible to solder pins in the holes for the selector part so you can use jumpers ?
Also could be a nice move to add sockets for the A & B ROM plug so it would be more practical too.
@MacDeath:
Yes, it would be 4x 16K ROMs
No, you couldn't put RAM ICs in it without several other (complicated) modifications being made.
From the pictures, it looks like the holes for the bridges are 2.54 pitch, so it should be possible to add standard jumper pins here to make re-congiguration very easy.
As well as adding the sockets for A and B, you would need to add the smoothing capacitors and the two 2K2 pull-up resistors.
Bryce.
Well.... or you just get a nice MegaFlash 8)
The romboard looks very similar to the Honeysoft romboard I have. The resistors in the corner are diodes on mine. It also has an edge connector.
Also note that the Honeysoft board doesn't do full decoding of the rom number so the roms repeat at every multiple of 16 (rom 1 appears at 1, 17, 33,49 etc.). Not normally a problem unless you have some obscure hardware (e.g. brunword) connected.
Indeed! That's the same PCB :)
Quote from: TFM/FS on 21:21, 19 September 12
Indeed! That's the same PCB :)
Very similar, I'd be interested to find out what the EXP connections are for.
The raw of pins? Probably for a cable, so you can add further extpansions to the CPC.
Quote from: TFM/FS on 21:39, 19 September 12
The raw of pins? Probably for a cable, so you can add further extpansions to the CPC.
The two pins on the right hand side, below the rom range selection links (0-7, 8-15), they aren't on my romboard.
Quote from: IanS on 21:47, 19 September 12
The two pins on the right hand side, below the rom range selection links (0-7, 8-15), they aren't on my romboard.
Ah got you. Well they select the ROM region for all ROMs. Either they are all between 0 and 7 or they are all between 8-15. So you can add some more of these cards ...
He knows that. It's the third jumper "EXP" which he's enquiring about. I'd like to know what it does too :)
Bryce.
Damn! I didn't find that on the picture!
Found! I guess it's to set the EXP signal for the expansion port, this signal can be read using the PPI. So the CPC 'knows' if there is an expansion connected.
Interestingly the RS232 romboard and my Honeysoft board look very similar and are both labelled "HS-RX1" they must be quite different as the chips are not the same.
RS232 board
74LS137 3-8 line decoder with address latches
74LS32 Quad 2-input OR gates
74LS00 Quad 2-input NAND gates
Honeysoft romboard
74LS137 3-8 line decoder with address latches
74LS139 Dual 1-of-4 Decoder
74LS74 Dual D-Type flip-flop
I still don't think there is enough gates to fully decode the rom number.
Not if they are just using the 3 to 8 decoder to select the ROM with the first 3 Databits, that would definitely repeat every 16 ROMs.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 22:42, 19 September 12
Not if they are just using the 3 to 8 decoder to select the ROM with the first 3 Databits, that would definitely repeat every 16 ROMs.
With only 3 data bits, it would repeat every 8 roms. I traced my Honeysoft romboard and it used one of the d-types to latch D3 (so it repeats every 16 roms). The Q or not Q outputs are used to select 0-7 or 8-15 by being linked to one of the gate inputs on the 74LS137. I wonder how the other design works.
Quote from: IanS on 00:41, 20 September 12
With only 3 data bits, it would repeat every 8 roms. I traced my Honeysoft romboard and it used one of the d-types to latch D3 (so it repeats every 16 roms). The Q or not Q outputs are used to select 0-7 or 8-15 by being linked to one of the gate inputs on the 74LS137. I wonder how the other design works.
please put this info on the wiki.
It is all good interesting information.
Quote from: IanS on 00:41, 20 September 12
With only 3 data bits, it would repeat every 8 roms. I traced my Honeysoft romboard and it used one of the d-types to latch D3 (so it repeats every 16 roms). The Q or not Q outputs are used to select 0-7 or 8-15 by being linked to one of the gate inputs on the 74LS137. I wonder how the other design works.
Doh, correct. It was late last night and had several beers before posting :D However, the fact that you can choose between 0-7 and 8-15, means that D3 is being read by some other gate so the device would still probably repeat every 16 ROMs.
@Arnoldemu: I don't really like putting "half information" on the wiki. If we get/make a schematic for the device, or if the owner has proven this, then we could add it to the wiki.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 09:33, 20 September 12
... so the device would still probably repeat every 16 ROMs.
I never suggested it wouldn't. I typed -
Quote
I still don't think there is enough gates to fully decode the rom number.
That was actually referring to your post where you said: "With only 3 data bits, it would repeat every 8 roms."
I know what you meant, but I was trying to clarify my original post as to why it repeats every 16 ROMs.
Bryce.
Ok well you guys go over my head, so Ill let you discuss while I get down to the practical task of modding this Romboard as per Bryce's idea.
(http://www.spookspring.com/images/Rs232-Mod.jpg)
The capacitor top left is a placeholder, bought a 100uf instead of nf. Ordering a couple of ROM's from Urban Retro (ebay).
Parts £7. ROMS £14. I have never soldered before. I hope you are proud of my speccy job. If you see anything amiss or wrong before I turn it on, let us know!
Cheers, James
The 100µf capacitor is also a Tantilum-bead type, which is poled. The 100nf part should be the ceramic type. You also need to make sure you put the EPROMs in the correct way. The sockets (assuming they are already soldered, are the wrong way around (The notch should be at the top), but this doesn't matter as long as you know which way to insert the EPROM.
If you remove the 100µf capacitor it should already work, even without the 100nf capacitor installed.
Congratulations on your first soldering. From what I can see (the selection links), it looks very neat.
Bryce.
Quote from: spookspring on 12:28, 20 September 12
Ok well you guys go over my head, so Ill let you discuss while I get down to the practical task of modding this Romboard as per Bryce's idea.
(http://www.spookspring.com/images/Rs232-Mod.jpg) (http://www.spookspring.com/images/Rs232-Mod.jpg)
The capacitor top left is a placeholder, bought a 100uf instead of nf. Ordering a couple of ROM's from Urban Retro (ebay).
Parts £7. ROMS £14. I have never soldered before. I hope you are proud of my speccy job. If you see anything amiss or wrong before I turn it on, let us know!
As Bryce says, make sure the tantalum cap is the right way round if you leave it in.
Can you take a picture of the other side whilst you have it out of the box?
I was thinking about that EXP jumper. It may be there to set the /EXP signal going to the CPC. Nobody every really used this signal, not even the DDI-1, which was the original reason for its existance as far as I know. But maybe Pace wanted to auto-detect whether the device was connected?
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 13:40, 20 September 12
I was thinking about that EXP jumper. It may be there to set the /EXP signal going to the CPC. Nobody every really used this signal, not even the DDI-1, which was the original reason for its existance as far as I know. But maybe Pace wanted to auto-detect whether the device was connected?
The DDI-1 uses the internal pull-up resistor on the EXP signal as the pull-up for LK1 (rom 0 or 7 selection). In it's default state (rom 7) the DDI-1 pulls the signal low.
Part of the reason for asking for the picture of the other side was to see if I could see where the EXP pads were connected to.
Yeah, I was aware of that usage, but I meant using the EXP signal for what it was really meant for. As far as I know, the CPC doesn't ever check the signal?
I thought you just wanted to see the bottom of the board to check his soldering skills :D
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 14:14, 20 September 12
Yeah, I was aware of that usage, but I meant using the EXP signal for what it was really meant for. As far as I know, the CPC doesn't ever check the signal?
Because the DDI-1 uses it for this purpose it's almost impossible for anything else to make sensible use of the EXP signal.
If you had a DDI-1 then EXP would be permanently pulled low. So nothing else can use it.
If you had cut the link LK1 on the DDI-1 to always boot into CP/M, then any other device that pulled EXP low would set the DOS rom back to number 7 stopping it from auto-booting into CP/M.
Effectively the signal has become "DDI-1 fitted with Rom at no. 7".
Romboard flip side
(http://www.spookspring.com/images/pace-romboard-bottom.jpg)
If there is a prize for amateur welding, I'll take it.
Interface flip side.
(http://www.spookspring.com/images/pace-interface-bottom.jpg)
Also fixed an FD-1 with a snapped board near the red read light, its not as messy as when it came in, plus it works.
No copper trace rolls available anywhere, or ebay.
(http://www.spookspring.com/images/ddi2.jpg)
Thanks for the flip-side pictures.
So the EXP pins are connected to the EXP signal on the expansion bus (and GND).
I can't imagine what possible use they though they could get from it. Maybe the fact that the link isn't made tells us all we need to know.
That's seriously impressive work for someone who says they've never soldered before!
You can use standard solid wire to fix broken tracks, it doesn't have to be copper traces.
Bryce.
They may have wanted to auto-detect the hardware, but as you said above, it would only work if a DDI-1 wasn't attached.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 13:40, 20 September 12
I was thinking about that EXP jumper. It may be there to set the /EXP signal going to the CPC. ...
That's exactly what I posted before.
Oh regards that missing EXP jumper, that's why it does not work on my 6128 maybe. So if I put a wire there and enable the 8-15 ROMS...it should work on the 6128?
No that would have no effect on the 6128, or at least NOT having it wouldn't be a problem. Adding the jumper would mess up both the 464 and the 6128. I've no idea why it wouldn't normally work on the 6128 though?
Bryce.
Quote from: spookspring on 20:34, 20 September 12
Oh regards that missing EXP jumper, that's why it does not work on my 6128 maybe. So if I put a wire there and enable the 8-15 ROMS...it should work on the 6128?
Did you check that? I see no reaseon (as long as you own the right cable) why it shouldn't work with a 6128. All ROM/Flash cards I know work with all CPCs.
Quote from: Bryce on 21:08, 20 September 12
Adding the jumper would mess up both the 464 and the 6128.
Why? On the 6128 it is already linked to ground via LK1, same as it would be if a DDI-1 was fitted to a 464.
I can't see any reason or advantage to adding the link nor can I see it doing any harm.
Well it wouldn't really do it any harm, but there might be some piece of software out there, that reads the signal and assumes a DDI-1 is attached.
Bryce.
Quote from: IanS on 23:04, 20 September 12
Why? On the 6128 it is already linked to ground via LK1, same as it would be if a DDI-1 was fitted to a 464.
I can't see any reason or advantage to adding the link nor can I see it doing any harm.
is that the link that makes the 6128 boot into cpm directly without going to basic?
So if it does something with that link it'll force the 6128 to boot.
Or perhaps that is exactly why it is there?
Perhaps you are meant to connect up the serial interface to the 6128, set the link. it'll boot into cpm.
Serial will be available. And if you have a cpm boot disc setup it could boot direct into a terminal program under cpm?
Does setting the EXP on a 6128 make it boot to CPM ? I must try that out.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 08:50, 21 September 12
Does setting the EXP on a 6128 make it boot to CPM ? I must try that out.
Bryce.
it controls if the amsdos rom is 7 or 0.
if it's 0, it attempts to boot cpm.
maybe it's not possible for the serial interface to drive this to make it boot, perhaps it is a hardware modification that needs to be done inside the 6128, and then you can control it via the serial interface to control how it boots.
I am speculating, but it could be a possibility. I wonder if it's mentioned in the manual?
Quote from: Bryce on 08:50, 21 September 12
Does setting the EXP on a 6128 make it boot to CPM ? I must try that out.
EXP is permanently tied low by LK7 on the 6128 main board. Remember a 6128 is effectively a 464 + DDI-1 + 64K. LK1 on DDI-1 is LK7 on 6128 main board.
To get a 6128 to auto-boot CP/M you would have to cut LK7 so that EXP is not tied low. This would cause the internal DOS rom to take position zero and boot CP/M.
The EXP link on the Honeysoft board will do nothing.
Quote from: IanS on 09:23, 21 September 12
EXP is permanently tied low by LK7 on the 6128 main board. Remember a 6128 is effectively a 464 + DDI-1 + 64K. LK1 on DDI-1 is LK7 on 6128 main board.
To get a 6128 to auto-boot CP/M you would have to cut LK7 so that EXP is not tied low. This would cause the internal DOS rom to take position zero and boot CP/M.
The EXP link on the Honeysoft board will do nothing.
if it was cut on the 6128, the honeysoft board could not drive it?
Quote from: arnoldemu on 09:28, 21 September 12
if it was cut on the 6128, the honeysoft board could not drive it?
Yes, you're right, if you cut the link internal to the 6128, you could then re-make it via the honeysoft board. But why bother?
If you had cut the link so it booted into CP/M you probably wouldn't want some external hardware re-making the link so it no longer boots into CP/M.
On a standard unmodified 6128 (or 664) the EXP link on the honeysoft board will do nothing.
Quote from: IanS on 09:36, 21 September 12
Yes, you're right, if you cut the link internal to the 6128, you could then re-make it via the honeysoft board. But why bother?
If you had cut the link so it booted into CP/M you probably wouldn't want some external hardware re-making the link so it no longer boots into CP/M.
On a standard unmodified 6128 (or 664) the EXP link on the honeysoft board will do nothing.
so you can then switch as needed leaving....
really I don't know why the exp is there on the board. We'll only know when there is a doc that mentions it.
I think I'll add that switch to my 6128 :) I have a switch already mounted, that's not used any more.
Bryce.
Not the switch you used to use with your logitech wireless mouse, Bryce???? What happened?
No, that's still there and working fine. The 6128 also had a switch to swap between AmsDOS / ParaDOS, but I don't use that any more, because I found that I just use ParaDOS all of the time.
Bryce.
Hey, nice thread over the past couple of days. Also, great photos in the first posts, this looks really mint!!!
Hi thanks so much guys for helping out on this small mod project. I welded in the correct capacitor top left and inserted a ROM that came with my new digitizer.
(http://www.spookspring.com/Amstrad/pace-rs232-modified-romboar.jpg)
This seems to be working as intended! So I can now order some new ROMS from faraway Austria!
(http://www.spookspring.com/Amstrad/Pace-RomBox-Working.jpg)
Also modded the 64k RAM pack to 256k, Merlin was selling a RAM chip set for the PCW. So now this project is now near complete!
Yeah! :) It does look nice!