SYMBiFACE III vs PicoCPC (for some reason)

[Pollo]

I think the real question is how much does it cost to buy one. Given how powerful it is, I guess it isn't cheap.

That will become quite an important question as the PicoCPC seems quite similar to an RSF3 Lite. From what I understand, they both are "M4 Boards" with extra audio capabilities.

[poulette73]

I'm not familiar with all the features of the PicoCPC (I haven't really looked into them).

But the RSF3 / RSF3 Lite basically supports also TMTNET networking (@TMTLOGIC)!
Which allows between computers :
- multiplayer gaming.
- real-time text messaging.
- real-time voice communication (like Skype or Teams)
- all between different machines : Amstrad CPC, MSX, Enterprise 64 and 128, Amstrad PCW, Sega SC-3000, Philips P2000 !

And also a TFT touchscreen, with a stylus, to launch applications or settings.


I don't think you can compare RSF3 and PicoCPC...

[GUNHED]

I think the real question is how much does it cost to buy one. Given how powerful it is, I guess it isn't cheap.

That will become quite an important question as the PicoCPC seems quite similar to an RSF3 Lite. From what I understand, they both are "M4 Boards" with extra audio capabilities.

Sorry, but you got that wrong. Have a look at the SF3 specs please :-)

Here is the SF3 manual...

[GUNHED]

I'm not familiar with all the features of the PicoCPC (I haven't really looked into them).

But the RSF3 / RSF3 Lite basically supports also TMTNET networking (@TMTLOGIC)!
Which allows between computers :
- multiplayer gaming.
- real-time text messaging.
- real-time voice communication (like Skype or Teams)
- all between different machines : Amstrad CPC, MSX, Enterprise 64 and 128, Amstrad PCW, Sega SC-3000, Philips P2000 !

And also a TFT touchscreen, with a stylus, to launch applications or settings.


I don't think you can compare RSF3 and PicoCPC...

You forgot one mayor feature: The 100% working emulation of the Dobbertin HD20 hard disc (20 MB, partitions can be switched, multiple hard-discs...). 

[poulette73]

Yes of course, you are right ! 

But I do not mention every features of RSF3, otherwise I can write a novel about it   

I could also mention that the RSF3 allows:
- playback of music files in SID format (Commodore 64) with excellent quality!
- management of ROM 0 and ROM 7.
- storage of the parameters of 5 Wi-Fi networks.
- emulation of the Amdrum card and its software.
- emulation of the DK'Tronics synthesizer.
- emulation of the Digiblaster sound card.
- integrated memory testing on the TFT screen.

... and I'm forgetting some more ! 

[FreddyV]

I'm not familiar with all the features of the PicoCPC (I haven't really looked into them).

But the RSF3 / RSF3 Lite basically supports also TMTNET networking (@TMTLOGIC)!
Which allows between computers :
- multiplayer gaming.
- real-time text messaging.
- real-time voice communication (like Skype or Teams)
- all between different machines : Amstrad CPC, MSX, Enterprise 64 and 128, Amstrad PCW, Sega SC-3000, Philips P2000 !

And also a TFT touchscreen, with a stylus, to launch applications or settings.


I don't think you can compare RSF3 and PicoCPC...

Hi,

I see here that SymbFace3 is under dev since 2018.

PicoCPC is 3 month of dev and can do :
-  RAM/ROM (464/4128)
- Floppy emulation with protected games images (.dsk)
- Start basic program from the SD
- Startup setup screen (Overscan graphic mode)
- C3 mode to transfrom a 464 to a 6128 (SymbOS work on a 464 with 300KB of RAM)
- Cardridge emulation on plus

I think it is nice to say not bad for a 3 month developement work....

I don't know, compare a 10 years + dev vs 3 month make no sens at all.

Audio is present and not coded yet.

[poulette73]

Totally wrong...  

RSF3 was created in 2023.. Stop talking nonsense if you don't know the subject.....  RSF3 is not Symbiface3....

But this isn't a competition, is it ??

Do you feel upset about something ? 
I have never criticized PicoCPC !!! 

We're not in a playground, competing to see who's the newest or most powerful, okay?   


So stop talking about 10 years of development...The RSF3 isn't even 2 years old!

And it doesn't have any of the Pico CPC's features, okay?

RSF3 can emulate the Digiblaster interface, emulate the DK Tronic synthesizer, emulate the Amdrum interface, play FM radio from the interface, from Basic, from Symbos, play dozens of current audio formats, manage 256 ROMBANKS of 32 ROMs each!, manage C64 SID sounds, support microSD storage, support USB storage, have MIDI I/O, manage 5 Wi-Fi networks, support 2 MSX interface ports!, replace ROMs 0 and 7, perform remote voice communication between multiple computers, remote networking for games, and all this with different computers: Enterprise/MSX/CPC/C64/Philips, etc.

Does the PicoCPC perform only 1 of these functions?
NO. End of discussion

SO STOP COMPARING !! 

THESE ARE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CARDS !!

NEITHER OFFER THE SAME FEATURES.

[FreddyV]

Totally wrong... 

RSF3 was created in 2023.. Stop talking nonsense if you don't know the subject..... RSF3 is not Symbiface3....

But this isn't a competition, is it ??

Do you feel upset about something ? 
I have never criticized PicoCPC !!!

We're not in a playground, competing to see who's the newest or most powerful, okay? 


So stop talking about 10 years of development...The RSF3 isn't even 2 years old!

And it doesn't have any of the Pico CPC's features, okay?

RSF3 can emulate the Digiblaster interface, emulate the DK Tronic synthesizer, emulate the Amdrum interface, play FM radio from the interface, from Basic, from Symbos, play dozens of current audio formats, manage 256 ROMBANKS of 32 ROMs each!, manage C64 SID sounds, support microSD storage, support USB storage, have MIDI I/O, manage 5 Wi-Fi networks, support 2 MSX interface ports!, replace ROMs 0 and 7, perform remote voice communication between multiple computers, remote networking for games, and all this with different computers: Enterprise/MSX/CPC/C64/Philips, etc.

Does the PicoCPC perform only 1 of these functions?
NO. End of discussion

SO STOP COMPARING !!

THESE ARE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CARDS !!

NEITHER OFFER THE SAME FEATURES.

Sorry ?
What are you saying ?
First post of this :
20:15, 30 April 18


You can already see on the site www.tmtlogic.com, we are working on a new version of the SYMBiFACE III

CPC Wiki :
SYMBiFACE II
SYMBiFACE II is a multi-function expansion card, created in 2006 and developed by Dr.Zed, with financial and initial software support from Prodatron. Portions of the design are based on the CPC-IDE prototype.


So, Symbface project did not start like 10 Years ago ?


I Just wrote it is not fair to compare, just to tell we can't compare, so we agree.

What make you as aggressive as this ?
Symbface project apparently started way longer in the past than PicoCPCI started the Hardware schematics in november.
First lines of code in january 2024...

I am not a CPC Guy, I developped the PicoMEM (For PC)
Then, I ask my friend who is CPC expert if we can do the PicoMEM for CPC.

3 month ago, I did not know SymbFACE was existing.
I don't care about doing competition with Symbface...

[poulette73]

I get aggressive when I see a clown spouting a load of bullshit...


Yes, I'll say it again one last time : you don't know anything about it (apart from using excerpts from topics you didn't know about a month ago...  ).
You do not belong to CPC community

SYMBiFACE III IS NOT RSF3, do you understand it, or not?

RSF3 was created in 2023, is it clear for you ?

End of discussion.
I'm tired of so much nonsense...

Okay, your PicoCPC is the ultimate card everyone's been waiting for, capable of everything in the world.
It's the best, it's perfect, and I hope you sell millions of them.
Now go enjoy yourself, I'm not interfering anymore.

[FreddyV]

Hi,
I saw now.

But it is by the same person that did the Symbface 1, 2, Since 2006

20 Years of excperience in doing CPC Board.
VS 5 month...

Et je sais maintenant que tu es francais, nous sommes aussi francais.

I can write in BOLD as Well

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT SOMEONE DOING BOARDS SINCE 20 YEARS HAS OBVIOUS ADVANTAGE VS 5 MONTS ?

"Okay, your PicoCPC is the ultimate card everyone's been waiting for, capable of everything in the world.
It's the best, it's perfect, and I hope you sell millions of them.
Now go enjoy yourself, I'm not interfering anymore."

I never said that !!!
What is wrong with You ?

[FreddyV]

Sorry for everybody else reading those post, I did not intend to start a War at All

PicoCPC is a Prototype, with 3 month of SW Dev
It is impossible that the PicoCPC be better that the RSF3 or whatever else.

I never said that.

Just say it is a non sens to compare as the PicoCPC SW is 3 month old only.

[poulette73]

Tu vois....

Toi-même tu te rends compte de toutes les âneries que tu as annoncées...
Tu découvres enfin que je suis français.
Tu découvres enfin que la RSF3 n'est pas la SF3.
Tu découvres enfin qui a réalisé la RSF3 (note : 20 années de développements de cartes ne signifie pas que la RSF3 n'est pas au niveau de ce qui existe 2025)

Jamais je n'ai critiqué la PicoCPC : ni le développement récent de sa réalisation, ni ses caractéristiques, ni ses qualités !

C'est toi qui t'es acharné , par méconnaissance, à rabâcher cette histoire de SF3 et de 2018 (totalement hors-sujet !! car absences de prétexte)

Je l'ai dit au moins 2, 3, ou 4 fois, que ces cartes n'ont rien à voir et ne sont pas concurrentes !!!

Et que c'était totalement hors-sujet de vouloir poster ici sur ce topic !!!


C'est quoi ta prochaine étape ?
Comparer ta PicoCPC avec la la M4 Board de Duke pour dire que t'es le plus fort avec tes 3 mois de développement ?

Belle mentalité : t'as vraiment rien compris à l'esprit communauté CPC...

[poulette73]

Close my account or ban it.

As an administrator, you have an obligation to access and execute my request !

When I see what the CPC community is becoming.
Either I feel like I no longer belong there, or the CPC community has completely changed and no longer reflects my values...

I really want to leave the CPC Wiki Forum.

[Pollo]

I want to defend my initial post. I think it is perfectly reasonable from a user's perspective to compare the RSF3 Lite to the PicoCPC.
They are, at least conceptually, about providing similar functions in the same way, by plugging an ARM chip to the CPC.

I don't think that many CPC users will shell out the bucks for both cards. I certainly won't. So we will have to make a purchasing decision.

And I am quite sure the price will be the differentiating factor in many cases. I don't understand why some people want it to make it a secret or something.

[FreddyV]

Hi,

RSF3 is impressive, and PicoCPC designed started before knowing that the RSF3 exist.

in the contrary of what poulette73 said, I am not a troll, I an not Unknown.

I was in the PC demoscene in the 1995, Wrote the world fastest MOD Player for PC XT.
GLX Player the only XT player ? Check Mod Master... \ VOGONS  (47 pages on Vogons)

28 channel fast tracker 2 on an Amstrad PC1640, software mixing

Better sound, 4 channels MOD

I have a youtube channel, X account, I am active on FaceBook, X, Vogons.

My work is available at Texelec, Serdaco:
PicoMEM - Audio Edition - Serdashop
PicoMEM by FreddyV - All in One 8-Bit ISA Expansion Card - TexElec

How my work can be referenced at Texelec if not serious ? ....

There are more youtuber that talk about my Work than youtubers talking about the RSF3...
Disclaimer : I compare PICOMEM to RSF3, not PicoCPC

[FreddyV]

Hum, 

I don't know

If I search for SYMBiFACE (even not RSF3) most popular video in View, I find this one.

6 years old, 1.1k view. and it i s a Dual core ARM CPU playing an MP3.

Adrian Video of PicoMEM, 10 month, 118K View.

This to say, what is my interrest at saying bad things about the RSF3, that I think it is a good card to do popular product ?

[Prodatron]

6 years old, 1.1k view. and it i s a Dual core ARM CPU playing an MP3.

The MP3MSX is already from 2007:


There's no ARM inside, just a decoder chip. The Z80 itself still handles the entire file system and I/O, managing and loading data byte by byte from a FAT16/FAT32 device under SymbOS and sending it byte by byte to the decoder chip, while still beeing able to perform other tasks. It's not like a dumb remote control that just sends the filename and start and stop commands to an external player. Of course, decoding MP3 data in real time isn't possible on a 4 MHz 8-bit system (as is the case with a PC1640).

SF3 and RSF3 emulate the 2007 MP3MSX hardware to stay compatible with the existing SymAmp player in SymbOS.

Interesting that you have been active in the mod-player/tracker scene. I developed a 32channel multiformat tracker in the mid-1990ies as well...

...but all this is probably off-topic here.

[Pollo]

When I see what the CPC community is becoming.
Either I feel like I no longer belong there, or the CPC community has completely changed and no longer reflects my values...

What changes or values are you referring to? Can you break it down for me?

What's shifted in the CPC community that's making you feel this way?

[FreddyV]

For information,

After leaving, poulette73 continue to treat me as "Connard" (Ass hole in english)

If someone here is in the CPCrulez and can maybe port a link to this thread.
Here, it is clear I did not start to be aggressive at all...

https://cpcrulez.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7130

Did he already act like this before ?

[abalore]

For information,

After leaving, poulette73 continue to treat me as "Connard" (Ass hole in english)

If someone here is in the CPCrulez and can maybe port a link to this thread.
Here, it is clear I did not start to be aggressive at all...

https://cpcrulez.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7130

Did he already act like this before ?

No, he never acted like this. With my hardware projects he has been always very supportive and good customer. My gut feeling is there is stuff going on here we don't know. If I were you, I would try to ignore all the offensive talking. Probably he will be in his right mind again soon.

[Egg Master]

The SYMBiFACE III exists and it's an amazing expansion. This is real hardware, not emulation. 
I don't like modern expansions with ARM-based designs, which aren't 100% accurate but cheap.

[Pollo]

The SYMBiFACE III exists and it's an amazing expansion. This is real hardware, not emulation.
I don't like modern expansions with ARM-based designs, which aren't 100% accurate but cheap.

The SYMBIFACE III manual says that it uses an ARM chip.
Is it an error?

[Prodatron]

The SYMBiFACE III exists and it's an amazing expansion. This is real hardware, not emulation.
I don't like modern expansions with ARM-based designs, which aren't 100% accurate but cheap.

You are probably speaking about the SYMBiFACE II

I like the SF3 as well, but I know what you mean about the ARM-stuff, were the software is replacing the "real" hardware.

[Pollo]

I like the SF3 as well, but I know what you mean about the ARM-stuff, were the software is replacing the "real" hardware.

It's almost surprising that this debate pops up now. That train is long gone really.

The CPC community is using ARM expansions since nearly 10 years, starting with the M4 Board. And has always been very positive about it.

[abalore]

As fas as I know the two more successful expansions (M4 and C4CPC) use ARM. Dandanator uses a PIC if I'm not wrong. My expansions use small CPLDs as the most complex parts because they don't need more, but I'm not against hardware implemented as software. That approach has its own challenges and limitations, real-time sampling and perfect timed writing of the bus signals is not easy stuff.

I don't know much about the SF variants but I guess it's hardware specifically designed to take advantage of the SymbOS features. That's great for SymbOS users. On the other hand I'm eager to put my hands in the PicoCPC to implement my own hardware emulations on it rather than using the stock features.

I think there is room for everything. Currently I'm designing a full FPGA based CPC with the Z80 running at 4/8/16 Mhz. The novelty respect to other projects like MiSTer, Mistica, etc. is that I want to expose the full BUS and be able to connect real peripherals into it.