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General Category => Amstrad CPC hardware => Topic started by: antoniovillena on 01:21, 18 January 15

Title: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: antoniovillena on 01:21, 18 January 15

Hi


I have released this little board.


(http://zonadepruebas.com/download/file.php?id=3497)


(http://zonadepruebas.com/download/file.php?id=3496)


It's made with Eagle. The sources are here.

http://www.atc.us.es/svn/zxuno/hardware/otros/ad724/ (http://www.atc.us.es/svn/zxuno/hardware/otros/ad724/)
User: guest
Pass: zxuno
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: Munchausen on 09:41, 18 January 15
Great board!

But just so you know, @Bryce (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=225) makes these too.

RGB SVideo - CPCWiki (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/RGB_SVideo)

His are S video only though. I added a composite connector (soldered to the AD724 pins), but you could easily just use an S-video to composite converter with it too.
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: opqa on 10:39, 18 January 15
For the sake of curiosity, why is there so much interest in Composite/S-Video outputs when, AFAIK, the best image quality is achieved with RGB? Is it just to be able to use the CPC with monitors without RGB/Scart connectors?
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: CraigsBar on 11:24, 18 January 15
Quote from: opqa on 10:39, 18 January 15
For the sake of curiosity, why is there so much interest in Composite/S-Video outputs when, AFAIK, the best image quality is achieved with RGB? Is it just to be able to use the CPC with monitors without RGB/Scart connectors?
my thoughts exactly. I have not seen a European tv made anytime since the late 80's without scart, I was of the opinion that most us tv's had rgb input does anyone really use s-video anymore? Now and internal board to upscale the rgb to 720p hdmi, *that* would be different lol.
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: McKlain on 11:27, 18 January 15
AFAIK, the S-Video output is the best option for good quality video capture from real hardware.
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: gerald on 11:33, 18 January 15
Quote from: CraigsBar on 11:24, 18 January 15
my thoughts exactly. I have not seen a European tv made anytime since the late 80's without scart, I was of the opinion that most us tv's had rgb input does anyone really use s-video anymore? Now and internal board to upscale the rgb to 720p hdmi, *that* would be different lol.
In France, the scart plug is no more mandatory on TV sold since January 2015. You can be sure that manufacturers will not include it !
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: antoniovillena on 12:12, 18 January 15
Quote from: Munchausen on 09:41, 18 January 15
Great board!

But just so you know, @Bryce (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=225) makes these too.

RGB SVideo - CPCWiki (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/RGB_SVideo)

His are S video only though. I added a composite connector (soldered to the AD724 pins), but you could easily just use an S-video to composite converter with it too.


Yes, I knew the thread. I tried to continue this thread but It was old so I've created a new one.


Basically the board is the same. The only difference is that bryce one has S-Video connector in the board. Mine is not included, so you have freedom to allocate the board into the machine.


I've put a small batch in a spanish forum but it's sold out. So I publish here the PCB files if it's interesting to this forum to build yourselves. This board is very interesting to CPC users because this machine has not composite output (or RF to obtain composite).


http://zonadepruebas.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5912&start=30#p52982 (http://zonadepruebas.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5912&start=30#p52982)

Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: Bryce on 14:08, 18 January 15
Hi,
    nice board. I see you have also included the PAL/NTSC switch which I also left off because almost all CPC users are in PAL countries. Although I included the S-Video socket on the PCB, you can just leave it off if you want to fit it internally.

To answer the others: SCART is on its way out and even now many SCART ports on modern LCD TVs will only sync to a perfect signal (which many retro computers don't produce). By converting the signal to S-Video you get a picture that's just as sharp as RGB, but more compatible. It also means having just a thin S-Video cable to the TV instead of a fat SCART cable with one of the shittiest connectors that ever managed to become a standard :D

Bryce.
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: Lazy Dude on 19:17, 18 January 15
slightly off topic here but would the light gun work through a CRT telly that's working via s-video?
I love scart connectors they are the best things ever  :laugh:
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: Bryce on 09:41, 19 January 15
Quote from: Lazy Dude on 19:17, 18 January 15
slightly off topic here but would the light gun work through a CRT telly that's working via s-video?
I love scart connectors they are the best things ever  :laugh:

Yes. I haven't tried it, but it should work properly.

Bryce.
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: MaV on 09:56, 19 January 15
Well, if SCART is on its way out, S-Video has been for a couple of years.
There hardly were new TVs with a proper S-Video connector, when I last looked, never mind the problem with the perfect signal which is a problem of (almost) all LCD TVs.

Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: Bryce on 11:43, 19 January 15
SCART never made it to the US. They've always used S-Video instead and still do. So S-video might just live a little longer. I've certainly seen TVs without SCART but still with S-Video.

Bryce.
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: Lazy Dude on 22:57, 19 January 15
must be time to develop a CPC to HDMI kit for people then. Got to keep up with the times what!
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: AMSDOS on 10:54, 20 January 15
My Dad once brought a TV with SCART, but it's the only one we had and the store we got it from were almost giving them away. Depends really where you go here, one place had heaps of TVs with SCART, but were expensive you had to pay more just to get the Composite or Component connector - depending on what you wanted varied with price & most other places have the TV with Composite on them. Haven't seen a lot with SVideo though. My little TV (14") has a Component on it and the Onscreen display is sharp like a computer screen.
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: Bryce on 11:20, 20 January 15
Quote from: Lazy Dude on 22:57, 19 January 15
must be time to develop a CPC to HDMI kit for people then. Got to keep up with the times what!

I've already looked into VGA and HDMI for the CPC. The problem is that you need more than just a format changer. Due to the higher frequencies you need to buffer the data. These are already available for very cheap (<€30) from China, so making a CPC spefic device isn't worth it. We should however test some of these and add some info on the Wiki (Connection How-to and reviews).

Bryce.
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: roy bates on 23:32, 20 January 15
my take on the s/video and rgb talk is,the us dont have scart for analogue rgb as far as i know so s/video(chroma/luma) is perfect for them.

anyway...how much will this be sold for please?

looks like a nice board,does it come as a kit? ready made? or both?
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: Bryce on 23:34, 20 January 15
The AD724 is only available in SMD, so it's not a Kit I would recommend for beginners.

Bryce.
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: roy bates on 23:36, 20 January 15
Quote from: Bryce on 23:34, 20 January 15
The AD724 is only available in SMD, so it's not a Kit I would recommend for beginners.

Bryce.

thats ok bud,i can handle it ;D

but,i understand its not or beginners..


@bryce,is it me or is there a mistake on the schematic on the wiki page? theres two 75 ohm resistors on the green of the r,g,b signals on the input,but none on the blue?
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: Bryce on 23:47, 20 January 15
I wasn't implying that you're a beginner :D It was just meant as a general comment :)

Bryce.
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: roy bates on 23:50, 20 January 15
Quote from: Bryce on 23:47, 20 January 15
I wasn't implying that you're a beginner :D It was just meant as a general comment :)

Bryce.

i know mate,could you have a look at the edit a made just before you posted please you might be interested
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: Bryce on 10:02, 21 January 15
Quote from: roy bates on 23:36, 20 January 15
@bryce,is it me or is there a mistake on the schematic on the wiki page? theres two 75 ohm resistors on the green of the r,g,b signals on the input,but none on the blue?

Haha, well spotted! That schematic has been there for years and no-one seems to have noticed the mistake. I actually used a different Layout program to make the batch, so the real devices don't have this problem. I'll see if I can find the old file and correct it.

Bryce.

Edit: Schematic corrected.
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: talrek on 14:21, 21 January 15
Hi, if someone is interrested I have three left from an old batch made for myself, always Bryce's model [emoji1]
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: pelrun on 07:18, 23 January 15
Quote from: Bryce on 11:20, 20 January 15
I've already looked into VGA and HDMI for the CPC. The problem is that you need more than just a format changer.


1. Sniff expansion bus for VRAM/CRTC/GA data
2. Emulate CRTC/GA to generate video
3. Generate HDMI signal


It's probably too much work for too little benefit, but I do have a brand new minispartan6+ fpga board with HDMI outputs sitting on my desk wanting something to do (and I accidentally just designed an interface board... oops)

Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: TotO on 09:21, 23 January 15
Just use a CPC to SCART cable and a SCART to HDMI converter.
That will allow to plug the CPC on old CRT/LCD TV as well as on new HDMI screen w/o scart input.

I have tested this working:

(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjAwWDYwMA==/z/oYIAAOSwcF9UWdjq/$_12.JPG)
Be carefull, others old and bigger version (rectangular, not square) may not work properly with the CPC...
I have bought it 25$... But il look to be increased to 45$ now. (because people buy w/o looking good prices)


Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: Bryce on 09:45, 23 January 15
I do something similar, but I use a very cheap S-Video to VGA/HDMI converter which is fed via my RGB to S-Video adapter.

The only problem (with all VGA / HDMI solutions) is the some CRTC tricks don't work properly because a digital picture can't change mid-frame like an analogue CRT could.

Bryce.
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: TotO on 10:09, 23 January 15
The problem is not related to the RGB to HDMI convertion but to the electronic embedded into the LCD TV for synching the video signal.

Some weeks ago, I have tried Relentless on the iXien's Toshiba Regza TV (with scart input), Relentless perfectly work during 2 or 3 seconds (the time to said houraaaaa!!!!) then the TV display a blue screen with a "no sync" message, instead of leaving the picture that it can properly handle...  :-\
It does the same using the Scart to HDMI adapter to the HDMI input...

May be, a way will be to disable the "no sync detection" into the LCD TV.  ;D 


Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: gerald on 10:45, 23 January 15
Quote from: TotO on 10:09, 23 January 15
It does the same using the Scart to HDMI adapter to the HDMI input...
You just answered my question before I ask  ;)
So we really need a CRT emulator to hdmi/DP  !
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: Bryce on 11:09, 23 January 15
As long as the signal is being digitally sample anywhere in the system you are going to loose the CRTC tricks. The only way to get these is to stick with analogue only which means reverting to a real CRT.
As it only effects a very small percentage of software, I prefer to have an LCD Monitor that takes up much less space.

Bryce.
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: gerald on 11:24, 23 January 15
Quote from: Bryce on 11:09, 23 January 15
As long as the signal is being digitally sample anywhere in the system you are going to loose the CRTC tricks. The only way to get these is to stick with analogue only which means reverting to a real CRT.
As it only effects a very small percentage of software, I prefer to have an LCD Monitor that takes up much less space.
CRTC tricks mainly relying on PLL response time or sync hold off. These can be simulated at the expense of some signal processing.
These are perfectly supported on some LCD screen/monitor (where developers cared about compatibility with flacky sources).
The idea would be add a CRT simulation layer between the CPC and the screen, while it would be far better to have it close to the LCD panel drive.
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: Lazy Dude on 22:50, 26 January 15
Another great hardware project in the making.
It's good that we have so many people that know what they are doing on here (it keeps idiots like me enthralled for days!)
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: Munchausen on 21:31, 21 February 15
Quote from: talrek on 14:21, 21 January 15
Hi, if someone is interrested I have three left from an old batch made for myself, always Bryce's model (https://s3.amazonaws.com/tapatalk-emoji/emoji1.png)

Hi talrek, do you still have any left? I am looking for one!

EDIT: Don't worry after all! It looks as though Bryce still has some!
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: talrek on 13:36, 22 February 15
Quote from: Munchausen on 21:31, 21 February 15
Hi talrek, do you still have any left? I am looking for one!

EDIT: Don't worry after all! It looks as though Bryce still has some!

No problem ;-)
I still have 3 available  ;) 10 euros each.
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: Martin on 10:25, 01 June 15
Quote from: talrek on 13:36, 22 February 15
No problem ;-)
I still have 3 available  ;) 10 euros each.


Hi
I'm also very interested. Still any left?
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: talrek on 16:20, 08 June 15
Sorry, no more left, someone took the 3 left after i converted them to NTSC ;-)
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: antoniovillena on 10:31, 19 August 15
I have some kits (PCB+components, unmounted) with these prices:
-Only Composite: 7 euros
-SVideo support: 7.50 euros

Shipping cost to EU are included in the price.

Note my model is different that the Bryce one. Please read the first message in the thread.
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: TFM on 16:59, 20 August 15
Quote from: Martin on 10:25, 01 June 15

Hi
I'm also very interested. Still any left?


If yes, how to PM you guest?
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: antoniovillena on 17:29, 21 August 15
Hi

I write you a PM

Quote from: TFM on 16:59, 20 August 15

If yes, how to PM you guest?
Title: Re: RGB adapter to SVideo/Composite for CPC based on AD724
Post by: anyf33 on 11:54, 22 February 16
Can you sell a board for me?
:P

(http://zonadepruebas.com/download/file.php?id=3497)


(http://zonadepruebas.com/download/file.php?id=3496)

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