I know most of us think CPC is a near perfect hardware passed the test of time. BTW I can't help myself to dream having a 'super' CPC mainboard with on board x-mem, HDMI out, mother x4 slots, reset switch, ps2 mouse and keyboard support etc.
What do you think. Is that a good idea? Or not feasible at all?
I have one. It's called PC with emulator :)
I like to play with my old HW sometimes, if I ever get my HcX to work with my 464 and 5 1/2" second drive thats all I need (512k extra RAM I have since late 80s)
But I see that would be somehow nice - maybe a little black box that uses the CPC's keyboard and all the rest is inside the box.
It would be nice, but i think that it would be more a new "Amstrad compatible" 8 bit computer than a true CPC or Plus. I say plus because if you do something like that it would be a bit of a waste not to implement Plus features and even a cartridge slot on it :-). About doing it, I guess that it is very feasible with a fpga setup in a custom motherboard. This would be more flexible than a classical hardware implementation and would offer room for debugging and improvements in the future.
On the other hand, as far as I know we still do not have perfect Amstrad CPC or Plus emulation, something that really works like the real machine but in a virtual way. That would be probably the first step for the fpga approach. It has been achieved with some consoles, like the Snes, but it was quite a big effort and, of course, the requiments of the emu are much higher that usual.
No no not an Amstrad compatible. Something more like "just cpc" (but a working one, lol) but with all the modern expansions and HDMI etc embedded...
I am disappointed that nobody did overclocked CPC as in Russia do overclocked ZX Spectrum. With a graphics like in Atari ST displayed straight from ramdisk. But even if today there is such a thing I do not think I would have wanted to pay for it as much as would have cost.
I think a more realistic idea (because cheaper), is put Raspberry Pi0 into case of my favorite 6128 and have CPC+ emulator together with modern browser and player of movies. :)
Anyway, others company like Atari, Commodore, Sinclair, etc. has no 16bit compatible with own 8bit computers, or no successor at all. So in my opinion best successor of CPC was Schneider EuroPC. ;)
You can overclock the CPC, but it isn't that useful: 6 MHz CPC - CPCWiki (http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/6_MHz_CPC)
The ACE emulator is supposedly pretty much perfect (but is only available for morphos, is being ported to haiku). I have high hopes for the new arnold.
This topic is mentioned fairly regularly. I think the most recent was here: Recreate the CPC? (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/recreate-the-cpc/)
I hate "raspberry pi in an original 8 bit case" projects :)
I always have a 6128 "reloaded" mainboard in mind since years.
If fact, the MotherX4 and MX4 expansions was first made to allow me to prototyping features for this new board.
(but the succes was unexpected and the time limited for me to acheive the original goal)
Quote from: TotO on 11:10, 15 February 16
I always have a 6128 "reloaded" mainboard in mind since years.
If fact, the MotherX4 and MX4 expansions was first made to allow me to prototyping features for this new board.
(but the succes was unexpected and the time limited for me to acheive the original goal)
Your idea is the by far most promising idea for a CPC new generation. We had lot's of teams before, but at the end there was no success. IMHO that even includes also the CPC core for the C-One and TRex1, because the are simply Z80 emulators and no emulation is perfect. I really hope you will have the time and power for your new CPC II. I will support you where I can. :)
Yes, please a CPC reloaded board with all basic modern expansions embedded. HDMI. Plus mx4 ports.
Quote from: dodogildo on 20:34, 15 February 16
Yes, please a CPC reloaded board with all basic modern expansions embedded. HDMI. Plus mx4 ports.
TotO's idea is far superior, you get it all on the main board, expansion RAM, ROM and PlayCity superpower. :)
I would, for sure, buy and support the development of one of those machines... :D
Quote from: ||C|-|E|| on 21:38, 15 February 16
I would, for sure, buy and support the development of one of those machines... :D
Same here!
Me too, would it be designed to fit a 464 case (fairly common)?
Quote from: steve on 00:13, 17 February 16
Me too, would it be designed to fit a 464 case (fairly common)?
Are they? One would need to cannibalize an original machine. IMHO it's better to take a casing which fits the needs of the PCB. Also, regarding storage media, a bit bigger casing would be handsome.
In addition a keyboard without keyboard clash would be advantageous too. Maybe a plug for PC keyboards, so they can be replaced without any trouble.
Well, regarding the case, I would love something small but with classic feeling. Something like the mini PCs, with accessible ports. Of course, it would be amazing if it had a real floppy disc drive.
Here is something I did with a PCW motherboard and an old 5.25" SCSI drive enclosure, for inspiration.
You know, you can hire tools that will drill a beautiful smooth round hole in that plastic. The cost, pittance...
even cheaper, an old plumbers trick is to use a blow torch to heat a piece of copper pipe and use the pipe to melt a hole.
Quote from: steve on 00:13, 17 February 16
Me too, would it be designed to fit a 464 case (fairly common)?
I think the Super CPC board should be around a standard PC mainboard's size so we could fit it in any case of our choice.
Why can't it be designed to replace the old innards of a CPC? I'd travel to every retro event showing off my new CPC looking nitro computer.
Quote from: ukmarkh on 16:21, 17 February 16
Why can't it be designed to replace the old innards of a CPC? I'd travel to every retro event showing off my new CPC looking nitro computer.
Because all the expansions and new improvements won't fit into one?
And wouldn't it be super cool to plug in our favorite keyboard and mouse or other equipments etc?
Quote from: dodogildo on 16:14, 17 February 16
I think the Super CPC board should be around a standard PC mainboard's size so we could fit it in any case of our choice.
A standard PC Mainboard??? That's massive! If you're going to be creating a CPC with a few expansions the biggest size factor will be the ports. The PCB could easily be a quarter of the size of a PC Mainboard. Almost all the logic for the expansions can be in a single CPLD, the rest of the logic and passives can be SMD.
Bryce.
But if someone could find a way, it would not only look amazing to have a CPC, but with all this extra power! Imagine taking it to a show, and then running it from a CPC! Surely something could be put together that takes into account, the holes already in the back of the CPC?
My point of view is more to keep an integrated keyboard. I love the look and feel, not only the content.
You two are the hardware geniuses :) If you can do it that small, then all of mortals would be more than happy! ;)
The only thing I can think, is adopt the latest Raspberry Pie?
I'm simply saying, we the creative juices of CPC WIKI, should be able to design a board, and come up with a design similar to the size and shape of the original CPC internal board. Then add things like more ram, clockable Z80 CPU, Parallel printer port, SD Card support, USB support and more. The CPC we've always wanted.
What's the point of a generic faceless box, when with the whole support of the community, we could set our sites 'RETRO'.
If this faceless Box fits perfectly under the CTM like the MP-3 the PCB could be designed to have MX4-Expansion-Slots on board for future expandibility. Also there is no hassle with dust-protection and electromagnetic shielding and also place for a good PSU with enough current to operate all the electronics.
I dislike the idea to embed visible anachronous things.
Quote from: PulkoMandy on 07:07, 17 February 16
Here is something I did with a PCW motherboard and an old 5.25" SCSI drive enclosure, for inspiration.
Ok, but now you need a screen. How did you get an usable video signal... and which sort of monitor?
Thank you,
Mr. AMS
The video output from the PCW is usual 15.625Hz/50Hz. The only (but important) caveat is that the video signals comes straight from the PCW ASIC, and if you plug it to a standard TV with 75ohm impedance, the ASIC will overheat and burn. You need to protect it, I did that by running the video signals through a 74LSxx chip (anything will do: OR, AND, 2xNOT, ...). Then you can wire it to a SCART connector or to a DIN connector for the CTM640. You can check that the video display PCB of the PCW (not the motherboard) has such a buffer as well.
Very interresting, Pulko !
However... the PCW video mode is 90 columns wide : how does this look on a CTM640 ? Does the picture fill the left and right borders or do we have a stamp-sized 90 cols pictures in the middle of the screen ?
My personal choice would be to use a PCB the size of the downsized 6128 PCB. You can easily fit a complete CPC and all the new expansions you could want on that and still keep the original ports and mountings compatible with a CPC case. I'd make all non-original expansions switchable, so that it would be possible to reduce it to a bare 6128 if wanted. I'd also keep the original keyboard interface, but include a PS/2 / USB port for alternative keyboards. It should include the orignal monitor port too, but also offer something more modern such as VGA or HDMI.
Bryce.
Yes, proper vga or HDMI please!!
They're just my suggestions. I have no intention on working on such a project.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 21:07, 17 February 16My personal choice would be to use a PCB the size of the downsized 6128 PCB. You can easily fit a complete CPC and all the new expansions you could want on that and still keep the original ports and mountings compatible with a CPC case. I'd make all non-original expansions switchable, so that it would be possible to reduce it to a bare 6128 if wanted. I'd also keep the original keyboard interface, but...
Close to be OK, up to here. The Rev3 board mounting holes are not at the same place than Rev1/2.
Quote from: Bryce on 21:07, 17 February 16... include a PS/2 / USB port for alternative keyboards. It should include the orignal monitor port too, but also offer something more modern such as VGA or HDMI.
Not here. :-\
If the mainboard is used outside a CPC case, it is possible to connect a custom expansion board to provide the "modern" connectors required by users.
Quote from: qbert on 21:04, 17 February 16
Very interresting, Pulko !
However... the PCW video mode is 90 columns wide : how does this look on a CTM640 ? Does the picture fill the left and right borders or do we have a stamp-sized 90 cols pictures in the middle of the screen ?
It has smaller borders than the default CPC screen. The pixels are the same size as CPC mode 2 pixels, as the video timings are much similar.
Quote from: TotO on 23:24, 17 February 16
Close to be OK, up to here. The Rev3 board mounting holes are not at the same place than Rev1/2.
Not here. :-\
If the mainboard is used outside a CPC case, it is possible to connect a custom expansion board to provide the "modern" connectors required by users.
Yes, you would either need both sets of mounting holes for compatibility or choose the layout that was most common.
As far as the new ports are concerned, that's a difficult one. Either an external module with the ports or choose free locations that would require some new holes to be cut in the case.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 09:48, 18 February 16
As far as the new ports are concerned, that's a difficult one. Either an external module with the ports or choose free locations that would require some new holes to be cut in the case.
I think just don't have a printer port and put as much as you can there before cutting anything. Who is printing from their CPCs these days anyway? If you want to have a digiblaster just make it internal.
Quote from: Munchausen on 10:23, 18 February 16
I think just don't have a printer port and put as much as you can there before cutting anything. Who is printing from their CPCs these days anyway? If you want to have a digiblaster just make it internal.
The printer port is a nice log port if you have the proper equipment connected to it (logic analyser, or dedicated usb logger) ;)
The printer port is very much underestimated as an expansion possibility on the CPC. At the moment there is only the DigiBlaster and an SDCard expansion released for it, but it has quite a lot of potential that may be used in the future. I'd keep it.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 10:27, 18 February 16
The printer port is very much underestimated as an expansion possibility on the CPC. At the moment there is only the DigiBlaster and an SDCard expansion released for it, but it has quite a lot of potential that may be used in the future. I'd keep it.
Bryce.
Sure, but you can have it internal. Currently there isn't much to use it for, and I don't like cutting holes!
Well my plan was for the PCB to be mounted in an original CPC case, so the hole should already be there.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 10:55, 18 February 16
Well my plan was for the PCB to be mounted in an original CPC case, so the hole should already be there.
Bryce.
Sorry, I mean you can use it for other connectors so you don't have to cut holes for them. Actually, if you have most expansion you could want internally and spare MX4 connectors you arguably don't need the expansion connector either.
Anyway, just my thoughts.
Quote from: Munchausen on 11:05, 18 February 16
Sorry, I mean you can use it for other connectors so you don't have to cut holes for them. Actually, if you have most expansion you could want internally and spare MX4 connectors you arguably don't need the expansion connector either.
Anyway, just my thoughts.
And where do I connect my original DKTronics expansions then!! :o
I see what you mean with the printer socket/hole, the idea isn't bad, but I would still prefer to have my original printer connector.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 10:27, 18 February 16The printer port is very much underestimated as an expansion possibility on the CPC. At the moment there is only the DigiBlaster and an SDCard expansion released for it
There is more interrest to free the printer port for new usages, than keeping it physicaly for that. ;)
About the EXP and FDD ports, better to keep the edge compatibility and solder right angled pins over for peoples who wants to directly connect ribbon cables.
Err, has no one here heard about metal hole saws? They can produce suitable round holes (may need a round file to finish off).
True, other shapes are far more difficult.
Mark
Printer ports can be very useful for other things.
Not exclusive to CPC's, but in the recent past, I have used 8 bit computers with printer ports to test some intelligent LED display modules. To drive some latch chips to generate a 16 bit address bus to find the address decoding in an unknown interface. To act as a secondary status display to save leaving a VDU on. To feed a relay interface board (controlling a prototype robot). Oh, and for driving a dot matrix printer.
Just a shame Amstrad decided to use bit 7 to produce the /strobe signal. I would have used a pulse stretcher circuit fed from the click signal to the flip-flop (latch) chip (that forms the printer port "driver") instead. Then you could drive an older style LaserJet printer from it (the type that has a parallel port).
Mark
As you said, it is a shame that was a "7bit" port, because it is mainly useless.
All things you are speaking (led, robot, ...) can be acheived without any limitation on the expansion port. it was made for.
For more informations, I'm looking to see if we can put a cartridge slot in place of the printer connector.
The idea is to allow to play all the OLD CPC games converted in ROM for the "GX4000", on it. :o
(If all CPC can use this feature, it should be interresting to finally produre real cases for cartridges)
I'm not sure if the digiblaster is really used, but it should be embeded inside the main board by using a real DAC and mix it to the audio.
So, we don't waste this feature on the printer port... Just handle it in an other way. ;D
If you use a real DAC it's not a DigiBlaster any more. The beauty of the Digiblaster is that it's completely passive.
As far as the cartidge is concerned, go for it! Would a C4CPC work on that or does it need any plus features to work?
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 22:59, 18 February 16If you use a real DAC it's not a DigiBlaster any more. The beauty of the Digiblaster is that it's completely passive.
The digiblaster concept was to do it passive, only because no 5V is available on the printer port. No?
Using a DAC allow to keep the compatibility and increase the sound quality. Is-it a problem?
Quote from: Bryce on 22:59, 18 February 16As far as the cartidge is concerned, go for it! Would a C4CPC work on that or does it need any plus features to work?
It should work if used with an other game selector.
Quote from: TotO on 23:08, 18 February 16
The digiblaster concept was to do it passive, only because no 5V is available on the printer port. No?
Using a DAC allow to keep the compatibility and increase the sound quality. Is-it a problem?
It should work if used with an other game selector.
Of course a DAC could simulate it, but it's a bit like saying you can replace a valve radio with a digital one. It's not how good it is (it was never particularly good if you ask me), but how it is done.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 22:59, 18 February 16
As far as the cartidge is concerned, go for it! Would a C4CPC work on that or does it need any plus features to work?
C4CPC is made of 2 separated part HW and SW.
The SW part (CprSelect) would need a rewrite to remove/replace all Plus features : color, raster IRQ
The HW part is a bit more tricky as to make the game conversion work on a CPC (no plus) you have to add some of the plus ROM mapping capability to the CPC
- logical mapping : Lower ROM to Cart ROM 0x80, Basic ROM to cart ROM 0x81, CPC ROM7 to Cart ROM 0x83
- Cartridge ROM mapped to upper ROM 0x80 - 0x9F
Also, it will be more economical to have the ROM emulation and SD within the CPC, not on a separated cart. C4CPC have the ACID emulation that you do not need.
So basically, cartridge slot is not needed, only a SD slot.
And this would be wonderful, because we could produce cartridge games in SD cards, that are deadly cheap nowadays :)