I made a few pictures displaying the CPC palette.
Maybe they may be usefull for people who want to do some graphics but somehow fail to understand the palette of the CPC.
(http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1490.0;attach=999;image)
(http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1490.0;attach=1001;image)
(http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1490.0;attach=1003;image)
(http://cpcrulez.fr/forum/download/file.php?id=321)
(http://cpcrulez.fr/forum/download/file.php?id=327)
(http://cpcrulez.fr/forum/download/file.php?id=330&mode=view)
The main advantage : I produced those myself, so less need to use the Wikipedia pictures...
This is good also to see the different combinaisons when dithering colours (in mode1 or mode0...)or see what colours can be a suitable transition between 2 others.
Or see the dithered equivalent of existing non-simple colours...
I used Paint.net to produce those, and the colours are generated with 0-128-255 values..
Of course it is difficult to tell the difference between the 2 light blues, somes light greens, the 2 light yellows and so on... as would it be on a proper CPC actually...
Hope this may help some to understand betterly the Amstradic's Cube (like a Rubic's one... or Cubic's Rube...lol...)
Great.... And where are these pictures?
Bryce.
WTF ? I put link to CPCrulez... this must be an antispam/links stuff... ok I try again to upload them properly.... :laugh:
there they are.
I added the 2nd one in the CPCwiki page "video modes"...
These are really great MacDeath and I especially like the visual aid of the dithering.
I found this 12-bit (i.e. 4096 colours) test chart on the net which is compatible with the Plus (not sure if we can put it on the Wiki though as I didn't draw it...):
This one is already in the Wiki at the page "Video modes".
http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Video_modes (http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Video_modes)
Was taken on the Wikipedia actually.
I managed to make those for CPC as it is quite a limited palette (only 27... not limited in possibilities... ;D )
But I won't do the same with the Plus palette as... er... 4096 is a bit too much for me to do it by hands... ???
I tried to express the 3 dimensional aspect of the CPC palette...
And as you told, to make an helpfull tool to get the Full CPC palette through ditherings with simple basic colours (RedGreenBlueCyanYellowPurple + Black&White...sort of...)
One thing I would be interested in, but I don't know if this falls into this idea:
You can flash two colours rapidly to make a new colour.
In basic it would be
ink 1,26,23
and then
speed ink 1,1
or similar.
Which combinations of the cpc palette produce nice colours. Which don't flicker much.
Maybe some of these "new" colours could be used in games (similar to the "new" colours on the c64 used in Mayhem in Monsterland).
I planned to work it out, but never got far.
Could you also do this?
Well, the more contrast there is between the flickering colours, the more it flashes and flicker...
Just look at the different combinaisons, some of them are not smooth, other arer but then the difference beteween the new "colours" and the old one is somewhat limited.
Quote from: arnoldemu on 15:46, 26 October 10Which combinations of the cpc palette produce nice colours. Which don't flicker much.
Flicker level = abs( luminosity(colour.1) - luminosity(colour.2))The lower it is, the better. But the threshold between "flickering is OK" and "flicker too much" is really up to you to decide :)
Quote from: MacDeath on 15:04, 26 October 10
Was taken on the Wikipedia actually.
Oh yes - love the "contains
stuff from Wikipedia" disclaimer ;)
Ok, redone the cube stuff; it is now more complete...
(http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1490.0;attach=1007;image)
This is very cute - I need a wallpaper with these cubes! :D
Now, if someone could juxtapose the c64 cubes next to these... that would be a laugh!
Btw, the palette page on the wiki is awesome!
C64 cubes ?
But the C64 don't even have enough colours to make a real cube actually... :laugh:
Also there you are : A wallpaper...
The dimension even enable you to put icons on your desktop...
Also it is no notice : those cubes may be displayed on a real CPC if you use some raster interrupt... :'(
As each cube actually display 19-20 colours.
Ok, I think I could solve the top left Rubics-cube in 34 moves, but I'm not sure about the other ones :D
Bryce.
They are actually solved... the gradiants are smooth and sorted...
Quote from: MacDeath on 17:44, 26 October 10
Also it is no notice : those cubes may be displayed on a real CPC if you use some raster interrupt... :'(
That would be one hell of a split raster...!
Well, forgot to say only if you put only one on the screen...
Quote from: MacDeath on 17:44, 26 October 10
As each cube actually display 19-20 colours.
it's like beautiful man. Here take the smoke and pass it on ;)
http://www.randelshofer.ch/rubik/virtualcubes/rubik/picture_cubes/rgbtone_cube_en.html (http://www.randelshofer.ch/rubik/virtualcubes/rubik/picture_cubes/rgbtone_cube_en.html)
http://www.randelshofer.ch/rubik/virtualcubes/rubik/picture_cubes/rgbtone_cube_enVE.html (http://www.randelshofer.ch/rubik/virtualcubes/rubik/picture_cubes/rgbtone_cube_enVE.html)
http://www.randelshofer.ch/rubik/virtualcubes/rubik/picture_cubes/images/RGBToneCube_512.gif (http://www.randelshofer.ch/rubik/virtualcubes/rubik/picture_cubes/images/RGBToneCube_512.gif)
OMFG, they did it wrong... This is not amstrad Palette...
Also I found out I re-invented the RGB-cube...d'oh....
http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/ejournals/JDC/Spring-2000/bendito/activities2.gif
http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/ejournals/JDC/Spring-2000/bendito/bendito2.html
In relation with this thread, i made something similar for my graphician could see differents combinations of dithering and palette on his cpc.
You can download the DSK here (http://webs.ono.com/maurice/dithering.dsk) (use space to change between palettes).
And of course: :P
(http://webs.ono.com/maurice/tramado.png)
Quote from: MacDeath on 17:44, 26 October 10
C64 cubes ?
But the C64 don't even have enough colours to make a real cube actually... :laugh:
Also there you are : A wallpaper...
The dimension even enable you to put icons on your desktop...
Also it is no notice : those cubes may be displayed on a real CPC if you use some raster interrupt... :'(
As each cube actually display 19-20 colours.
Veeeery nice! Though I prefer it to be full-screen - but I can do that much myself :D Someone should take this style and render a CPC logo under the cubes - then it'd be effin' perfect!
Like this ?
Needs a few rasters and to be in mode0...
But I should verify more closely if this can be done actually...
convImgCPC has a "X mode" but it does not support mode0 rasters nor multimode raster pictures....too bad as it would be great to verify Rastered or even convert-create those in CPC compatible standard/format...pictures...
Also, do you know where can we find AmstradCPC format friendly Amstrads logos ?
There are some vector images of old computers out there* that you could extract the logo from, I think...
*I have used the CPC one in our banner:
(http://cpcwiki.eu/banner.jpg)
Ok I'll check up thoses...
Also :
"Overscan grid" : to produce stuff like "Montage grid Amstrad"...
This is compatible with the "New Cube"
Cube with rasters : I highlighted the lines where raster colour changes can be performed in order to get the 27 colours experience.
The raster zones are as follow (from up to down...) but of course it may be possible to use less zones as we get a 16 colours available per zones.
Black is always included as it it used for the frame.
But it may be better to aim 12 colours max per zones and keep 4 colours for the reste of the picture (Black+White+Grey+ one other, per exemple...)
Oh, Grey is never diplayed on the cube itself because it is inside the cube (in the middle of everything, so nowhere...)
1st zone : total 2 colors
(1+black).
2nd zone : total 4 colors
(3+black... and so on...).
2 colors from past zone disappear, 3 new colours appear.
3rd zone : total 6 colors
1 color from past zone disappear, 3 new colours appear.
4th zone : total 6 colors
2 colors from past zone disappear, 2 new colours appear.
5th zone : total 6 colors
1 colors from past zone disappear, 1 new colours appear.
6th zone : total 8 colors
2 colors from past zone disappear, 4 new colours appear.
7th zone : total 7 colors
2 colors from past zone disappear, 1 new colours appear.
8th zone : total 8 colors
3 colors from past zone disappear, 4 new colours appear.
9th zone : total 7 colors
2 colors from past zone disappear, 1 new colours appear.
10th zone : total 4 colors
3 colors from past zone disappear, no new colours appear.
11th zone : total 2 colors
2 colors from past zone disappear, no new colours appear.
The pixels numbers in vertical may vary... (didn't counted them precisely, too hard to do in english lol) but an important detail : this is supossed to be in "vertically doubled Mode0"...
Implying :
=Square "pixels" of (mode1) 2x2 so (Mode0)1x2.
=As the pixels are doubled vertically this may give windows for some tricks (sort of compression... as each scan line is repeated once) or even ease the raster interrupt (you have 2 scanlines to perform it.)
With those many "zones" the max colours per line is 8... for one cube, including the Black (comon colour for 2 cubes per example)..
The rest would be for coders to tell me feasability and specifications...
I have a vectorized graphic of a 3D 6128 with GT65 (drew it myself) that I use on my PCBs sometimes (see close-up below) I can send you it as a DXF if that's any use? The picture actually has a lot more detail than seen here, just copper isn't the best medium for graphics :)
Bryce.
Quotejust copper isn't the best medium for graphics
You should tell that to Amigafans... ;D :D
There another example of composition, should be heavy in rasters, and the cubes are not varied...I still have to see what combinaison may be easier or good looking...
The more common colours per raster the better.
If 3-4 colours may be keept for the non-cube zones, then it may even be possible to give the "texte-tiles" some kind of a scroll-texte effect...
I displayed the cubes so only a small portion of them actually cross rasters...
So I am officially searching for a coder...
According to the Rasters highlight on the second version, this composition seems technically possible yet may be quite heavy CPU wise...
This is to be a fullscreen picture with "cell based animation"...and shittons of rasters...
Mmmm... could this fit in a x64 config ?
Well, i love your images MacDeath :) , because that i have converted your image, you can download the DSK here (http://webs.ono.com/maurice/amstrad_grid.dsk).(http://webs.ono.com/maurice/amstrad_grid.png)
PD: You must be careful with the overscan because a lot of TVs and monitor will not show your image completely (over 176x256 pixels in mode 0, you begin to lose pixels in the most old displays).
I believed the theoric maximum display is 384x272 (mode1...) or 192x272 (mode0)
this is a 2 character difference.
isn't it ?
Of course this is actually a bit of Video Ram but the idea may also be to be sure to not get any border at all.
So yeah the important parts/elements of the picture has to not be outside this area, but the isometric grid per example should stay at 192x272...unless this may pose some problem with centering the picture...
But yeah I know this would vary depending how your monitor is warm or from Monitors to others...
Greenscreens are smaller, and PLUS and CPC monitors are also differently sized...
So yeah it is not recommended to get more than 256 vertically...well after all those are just conceptual squetches...
I will then perhaps resize into what you told...
But hey, you used the Pinkgayness version... :laugh:
This was my first unrefined try on the concept... ::)
THX anyway.
How many raster colour changes did you got on this one ?
Hi
MacDeath,
Yes, the theoric maximum is that, 192x272, but how you can see in the pictures of this thread (http://www.amstrad.es/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1677) (where i was testing the overscan), the conclusion is how you said
"put the important things in the central zone of 176x256" or you can get the next result :D :
(http://webs.ono.com/maurice/real_std.png)
The central zone is the standard resolution of 320x200 (160x200 mode 0), the pink would be the "sure" overscan of 352x256 (176x256 mode 0) and the blue would be the maximum overscan of 384x272 (192x272 mode 0).
Quote from: MacDeath on 14:00, 29 October 10
But hey, you used the Pinkgayness version... :laugh:
This was my first unrefined try on the concept... ::)
THX anyway.
How many raster colour changes did you got on this one ?
Well, i saw this thread before you put the new versions, because of that i was working with the Pinkgayness :D
The raster changes are:
- Black and White are fixed in all the screen (background colors).
- At the beginning of screen, i put the colours for the pens 3-16 (14 colours).
- At the middle height of first cube, i change the colours pens 3-6 (4 colours).
- One line before the Pinky logo, i change the pens 3-5 (3 colours).
- After the logo, i change the pens 3-16 (14 colours).
- At the middle height of second cube, i change the colours pens 3-7 (5 colours).
It was more a brute force test, but in spite of i have a lot of CPU free ;)
@MacDeath: those look just sweet - I'll upscale them with Photoshop and use them as wallpapers... :)
@Bryce: a 3D 6128 vector? Can we haz? That'd be really neat!!!
I was actually wondering...
Does vector graphics work well on a CPC ?
Isn't it too much for a 8bit ?
Well, it's a 3D in 2D yeah (sort of), but I wondered about the actual capabilities of a CPC on that mater.
QuoteThe raster changes are:
- Black and White are fixed in all the screen (background colors).
- At the beginning of screen, i put the colours for the pens 3-16 (14 colours).
- At the middle height of first cube, i change the colours pens 3-6 (4 colours).
- One line before the Pinky logo, i change the pens 3-5 (3 colours).
- After the logo, i change the pens 3-16 (14 colours).
- At the middle height of second cube, i change the colours pens 3-7 (5 colours).
- At the middle height of second cube, i change the colours pens 3-7 (5 colours).
Black and white as fixed colours ? Don't you mean Black and grey instead ?
Also :
Quote- At the beginning of screen, i put the colours for the pens 3-16 (14 colours).
- After the logo, i change the pens 3-16 (14 colours).
14 colours, yeah this is a group shot... of course easier because the composition of this "pinkgayness" rough try is simple...
But the aim would ideally be to manage to do this kind of cube with, erh... let's say... 4 colours fixed (the background) and more Cubes sharing the same horizontal space (at least partially...)
But this would need a lot of additionnal raster interrupts of course...
Just see the last pic I uploaded...
Background colours are Black+White+Red+Grey...
Also I'm actually aiming at getting the raster interrupt colour change (this king of stuff) scrolling vertically as the cubes scrolls too... To turn this in a real demo if a coder can follow my wishes... :-[
Also one of my...interests...
The fact I design this in vertically doubled pixels (Square Mode1 2x2... in Mode 0...)
I think a good code may enable to get a routine to display twice the raster lines (scanlines... horizontal line... whatever) so the Data could be 50%...
Considering a 160x200x16 mode 0 is 16K (un compressed...)
Then this 160x100x16 mode 0 in 2x2 equivalent... could be 8K only...plus a fixed Data/CPU weight for the "doubling the scanlines vertically"... but in a full demo stuff, the gain for Datas can be quite good...
I think there are a lot of potential if we can developp this 160x100 mode... and mix it with... normal Mode 0 stuffs (like sprites ?) or even Rasters colour changes...
We had a topic on CPCrulez (in france) where we tried to port Graphics from NéoGéo pocket into CPC old...
(we are having this kind of picture ports on CPCrulez theses days... C64 ports also...)
Problem : NeoGeo pocket is 4096 paletted... CPC is 27... so I did some tries...
(attached pictures, a C64 port and a NeoGeo pocket port)
But I was wondering about such a 160x100x16 display and NeoGeo pocket is something like 160x150 resolutions...
If a way to display easily and fastly the pixels twices in vertical... it would then enable to try stuffs (animation, graphics) at a new square scale in 16 colours (plus rasters sometimes...).
not as fine as a real 160x200... but... bigger...sprites... on screen... for actually less Data space (yet Video Ram remains in 16K)...
But hey... the 6128 config is great... :-\
Or you use a CPC Plus, what would make it a bit easier...
That remembers me on one of my first small Plus codes (not even a small program). It just displayed all 4096 colors at the same time. I had it by accident with me, when visiting an CPC meeting (was it the Odie Meeting in Konstanz...?), Eliot was there (coming the looooong way from France!!!) and asked me for a copy of it. Sure, I gave him a copy of that source - and since that time I have only monochrome colors on my Plus!!! :o
Yes, but while getting the full 27 colours on screen is a good stuff on CPC, and quite symbolic... the full palette displayed...
it is perhaps a bit easy on a PLUS, and not that....er... well the aim on PLUS would then be to display the full palette, or perhaps something like 256 colours...
Easier interrupts are easier.
Because the plus can actually display 32 colours on screen with no tricks (Sprites15+Normal picture16+border1)...
So surely 27 is not that a big deal.
Oh and the PLUS palette can't be that well accurate to emulate the CPC palette too...but this is just a detail...
Quoteand since that time I have only monochrome colors on my Plus!!!
I fail to understand what you mean... :(
4096 colours on PLUS...
16 column on 256 pixels... each rasterline display a new batch of 16 colours...
But I don't think it can be easy to actually do something with 4096 colours on a plus... I mean figurative art...
But perhaps aiming for a 256colours picture (per example) on PLUS is more realistic and usable.
Have been joking before, my Plus monitor is still able to display color, it's not monochrome :-) And nobody stole the color ;-)
G-Paint has a function (select ink) where you have displayed all 27 colors on CPC og (see wiki).
Sorry by the delay in answer
MacDeath...
Quote from: MacDeath on 00:58, 30 October 10
I was actually wondering...
Does vector graphics work well on a CPC ?
Isn't it too much for a 8bit ?
Well, it's a 3D in 2D yeah (sort of), but I wondered about the actual capabilities of a CPC on that mater.
It depends what you want to make, i hate simulators or other slow vector graphics games... but for example, i have in my ideas notepad a port of the psx game
Vib Ribbon (http://www.google.com/search?q=vip+ribbon&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=iceweasel-a#hl=es&client=iceweasel-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&&sa=X&ei=mZnNTPTiDdi4jAfUxsTYBw&ved=0CC8QBSgA&q=vib+ribbon&spell=1&fp=46e51f5f9ccee7f9) ;D
Quote from: MacDeath on 00:58, 30 October 10Black and white as fixed colours ? Don't you mean Black and grey instead ?
I know, i know, but in the official docs, Amstrad called white :P
Quote from: MacDeath on 00:58, 30 October 10Also :14 colours, yeah this is a group shot... of course easier because the composition of this "pinkgayness" rough try is simple...
But the aim would ideally be to manage to do this kind of cube with, erh... let's say... 4 colours fixed (the background) and more Cubes sharing the same horizontal space (at least partially...)
But this would need a lot of additionnal raster interrupts of course...
Just see the last pic I uploaded...
Background colours are Black+White+Red+Grey...
Also I'm actually aiming at getting the raster interrupt colour change (this king of stuff) scrolling vertically as the cubes scrolls too... To turn this in a real demo if a coder can follow my wishes... :-[
Well, without copper, raster interrupts or a timer with better precision, you will need to design with the idea that group the raster changes or you can lose all the cpu for make more cool effects.
I like your idea and graphics for making a demo, in this moment i'm finishing a few projects, but when i finish if anybody take the chance, i'll be grateful to help you in this and in the Odissey of find an square pixel mode 0 with the middle of ram usage ;)
Quote from: MacDeath on 00:58, 30 October 10
We had a topic on CPCrulez (in france) where we tried to port Graphics from NéoGéo pocket into CPC old...
(we are having this kind of picture ports on CPCrulez theses days... C64 ports also...)
I know these threads of CPCRulez, and i love the great use of the CPC palette and retouch that you have make in them :)
Quote from: SyX on 17:53, 31 October 10
I know these threads of CPCRulez, and i love the great use of the CPC palette and retouch that you have make in them :)
Linky-link? Please? :)
Vib Ribbon is cool :)
Quote from: MacDeath on 00:58, 30 October 10
Does vector graphics work well on a CPC ?
The answer is YES.
Don´t you know STARSTRIKE 2 ???
Filled vector graphics - fast and smooth.
And Starglider too :-)
Quote from: Gryzor on 20:06, 02 November 10
Linky-link? Please? :)
Here (http://cpcrulez.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4274), here (http://cpcrulez.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4353) and here (http://cpcrulez.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4347) :)
Quote from: Gryzor on 20:06, 02 November 10
Vib Ribbon is cool :)
YEAAAHHHH!!! :D
I find the CPC works extremely well with Vector Graphics when it uses the Wire-Frame Approach (extremely good for those fast paced action games), though Freescape I suspect could be another form of Vector Graphics! ;D
Quote from: SyX on 09:48, 03 November 10
Here (http://cpcrulez.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4274), here (http://cpcrulez.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4353) and here (http://cpcrulez.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4347) :)
YEAAAHHHH!!! :D
These look good but (don't shoot me) the original C64s look better, but this is because they have been drawn originally with the C64 colours in mind.
However, when pictures are custom made for the CPC then they of course look much better than the C64 and make use of the CPC pallette.
The new C64 demos just make me cry. :(