What app can be used to put roms on to the x-mem with only a floppy drive.
I need to install acmedos to use the x-mass
And some other roms
https://www.centpourcent.net (https://www.centpourcent.net) ;)
@TotO The Zmem link is not working
Thanks
Keep Safe
Ray
Yes. I don't know will the file no more exist since a while... I don't have it. :-\
@TotO Its OK I found a couple of Disk Images.
Keep Safe
Ray
will give that a try tonight, thanks
Quote from: caver99 on 22:12, 07 December 22What app can be used to put roms on to the x-mem with only a floppy drive.
I need to install acmedos to use the x-mass
And some other roms
There are solutions for BASIC (see previous posts). That's fine for the average usage surely. :)
But to have full control over the X-MEM I do suggest you the ROManager 2.4.3 for FutureOS. This would mean to install FutureOS first and then the ROManager XROM too. Probably it's only worth the efforts when you work with X-MEM ROMs a bit more often. But it's functionality is quite comprehensive. (Download, see my signature. Also there's a wiki page). :)
i have to get future os on first, then i will try it, thanks
I managed to get the future's rims installed from the installer and I have to say its not a nice experience using it.
It looks nothing like pictures with a gui looking effect just 4 icons and very basic and not very intuitive to use.
Plus didn't recognise the x-mass lol
Quote from: caver99 on 21:57, 08 December 22I managed to get the future's rims installed from the installer and I have to say its not a nice experience using it.
It looks nothing like pictures with a gui looking effect just 4 icons and very basic and not very intuitive to use.
Plus didn't recognise the x-mass lol
Well, I'm open for any kind of suggestions of course. Together everything can be made better.
You're using Sparten mode, that means only to see the currently usable icons. You can change that in the Installer Setup.
Examples:
- You click at a device icon (A for drive A for example) and more icons will appear.
- When using more devices you can browse directories up and down by using the mouse wheel or Shift and Control keys.
- To copy tiles to a destination, the destination device must be switched active (click at the icon once)
- After swapping disc click at the DIR icon again, the directories are buffered in RAM to speed up the system and save head-movements
The X-Mass is currently not supported, but for the M4 I'm working on an expansion ROM.
What would you like to change?
But hey, sorry for switching topic here, it can all be discussed in the FutureOS corner. :)
Quote from: GUNHED on 23:36, 08 December 22Quote from: caver99 on 21:57, 08 December 22I managed to get the future's rims installed from the installer and I have to say its not a nice experience using it.
It looks nothing like pictures with a gui looking effect just 4 icons and very basic and not very intuitive to use.
Plus didn't recognise the x-mass lol
Well, I'm open for any kind of suggestions of course. Together everything can be made better.
You're using Sparten mode, that means only to see the currently usable icons. You can change that in the Installer Setup.
Examples:
- You click at a device icon (A for drive A for example) and more icons will appear.
- When using more devices you can browse directories up and down by using the mouse wheel or Shift and Control keys.
- To copy tiles to a destination, the destination device must be switched active (click at the icon once)
- After swapping disc click at the DIR icon again, the directories are buffered in RAM to speed up the system and save head-movements
The X-Mass is currently not supported, but for the M4 I'm working on an expansion ROM.
What would you like to change?
But hey, sorry for switching topic here, it can all be discussed in the FutureOS corner. :)
ah right, i didn't see there was an option to change desktops on install.
will have another go over weekend as i do like the pics of the desktop.
ok i understand now that the X-Mass isn't supported that will explain what i couldn't see the drive.
is the usifac ii supported by any chance?.
Quote from: caver99 on 13:24, 09 December 22Quote from: GUNHED on 23:36, 08 December 22Quote from: caver99 on 21:57, 08 December 22I managed to get the future's rims installed from the installer and I have to say its not a nice experience using it.
It looks nothing like pictures with a gui looking effect just 4 icons and very basic and not very intuitive to use.
Plus didn't recognise the x-mass lol
Well, I'm open for any kind of suggestions of course. Together everything can be made better.
You're using Sparten mode, that means only to see the currently usable icons. You can change that in the Installer Setup.
Examples:
- You click at a device icon (A for drive A for example) and more icons will appear.
- When using more devices you can browse directories up and down by using the mouse wheel or Shift and Control keys.
- To copy tiles to a destination, the destination device must be switched active (click at the icon once)
- After swapping disc click at the DIR icon again, the directories are buffered in RAM to speed up the system and save head-movements
The X-Mass is currently not supported, but for the M4 I'm working on an expansion ROM.
What would you like to change?
But hey, sorry for switching topic here, it can all be discussed in the FutureOS corner. :)
ah right, i didn't see there was an option to change desktops on install.
will have another go over weekend as i do like the pics of the desktop.
ok i understand now that the X-Mass isn't supported that will explain what i couldn't see the drive.
is the usifac ii supported by any chance?.
Thank's a lot for your feedback. :)
Currently only the Dobbertin HD20 hard disc is supported as mass storage media. Hopefully this great device can be emulated soon. In addition the M4 SD card get support currently (what works: start Apps, show files, show headers). I hope to have this finished soon. The USIfAC II is on my 'To Do' list, I like the version 1 a whole lot, and will get the II when I have time to intensively support it...
Quote from: caver99 on 13:24, 09 December 22ok i understand now that the X-Mass isn't supported that will explain what i couldn't see the drive.
The X-MASS is the standard IDE mass-storage interface. It is natively compatible with BonnyDOS (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/BonnyDOS) used in Germany, UK and Spain with IDE drives into the 80's. It is nativelly supported by SymbOS (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/SymbOS), because the SYMBiFACE II expansion use the standard too. If FutureOS don't (or no more) support it, it is really a shame.
Quote from: TotO on 14:17, 09 December 22Quote from: caver99 on 13:24, 09 December 22ok i understand now that the X-Mass isn't supported that will explain what i couldn't see the drive.
The X-MASS is the standard IDE mass-storage interface. It is natively compatible with BonnyDOS (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/BonnyDOS) used in Germany, UK and Spain with IDE drives into the 80's. It is nativelly supported by SymbOS (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/SymbOS), because the SYMBiFACE II expansion use the standard too. If FutureOS don't (or no more) support it, it is really a shame.
Really? Look how much X-MASS have been sold. Then look how much M4 cards have been sold. I guess the M4 expansion got sold 10 times more. So I guess the M4 is standard.
And btw. how much users does BonnyDOS have? 2 or 3?
IDE drives in the 80ies for the CPC? Please provide a link to that.
The standard mass media of the 80ies was the Dobbertin HD20 hard disc providing four partitions of 5 MB each. And it's supported by native OS, CP/M 2.2 and Plus as by FutureOS.
Today everybody uses the M4 card, because it got the best implementation into the native OS, got sold more than 1000 times.
And if I would support X-MASS before M4 this would be a shame. First I support what most users use, then anything else.
But if you mind, just make an XROM for FutureOS to support X-MASS. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :) :) :)
Quote from: GUNHED on 15:02, 09 December 22Quote from: TotO on 14:17, 09 December 22Quote from: caver99 on 13:24, 09 December 22ok i understand now that the X-Mass isn't supported that will explain what i couldn't see the drive.
The X-MASS is the standard IDE mass-storage interface. It is natively compatible with BonnyDOS (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/BonnyDOS) used in Germany, UK and Spain with IDE drives into the 80's. It is nativelly supported by SymbOS (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/SymbOS), because the SYMBiFACE II expansion use the standard too. If FutureOS don't (or no more) support it, it is really a shame.
Really? Look how much X-MASS have been sold. Then look how much M4 cards have been sold. I guess the M4 expansion got sold 10 times more. So I guess the M4 is standard.
And btw. how much users does BonnyDOS have? 2 or 3?
IDE drives in the 80ies for the CPC? Please provide a link to that.
The standard mass media of the 80ies was the Dobbertin HD20 hard disc providing four partitions of 5 MB each. And it's supported by native OS, CP/M 2.2 and Plus as by FutureOS.
Today everybody uses the M4 card, because it got the best implementation into the native OS, got sold more than 1000 times.
And if I would support X-MASS before M4 this would be a shame. First I support what most users use, then anything else.
But if you mind, just make an XROM for FutureOS to support X-MASS. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :) :) :)
sorry but i didnt say support x-mass before m4 card, i have not seen the m4 card for sale anywhere when looking for a mass storage for the cpc.
is it just called m4 card?
Search this forum for 'M4 Wifi'. Or use google 'cpcwiki M4 Wifi'. Should work.
@GUNHED Forget... In fact, I don't care what an OS used by nobody except you can support.
@caver99 If you already have the X-MEM and X-MASS, why are you just not using the installer?
Quote from: TotO on 14:17, 09 December 22If FutureOS don't (or no more) support it, it is really a shame.
You have probably been confused by all the advertisements and announcements (https://groups.google.com/g/comp.sys.amstrad.8bit/c/TWOE8EadwNE/m/cV1ebsE1lUgJ) which appeared during the last 18 years?
Where have you been?
Missed you already!
It's no real Friday without your friendly and helpful comments anyway. :laugh:
And to be as kind as you I also give you something to read, guess what?
It's the IDE ROM (FutureOS) documentation I wrote back the day - actually just a bit of it.
You want more? Give me more shit - and I'll give you more gold! ;D
Quote from: TotO on 15:19, 09 December 22@caver99 If you already have the X-MEM and X-MASS, why are you just not using the installer?
to install roms, and when i mess up to re-set up using the init and install options.
i don't normally use futureos, im a command line person for loading and saving.
on the subject i have found the program yancc which supports the x-mas with acme rom.
what do you find is the best rom set to use for the x-mass?
@caver99 If the DOS provided by the "x-mass installer for x-mem (https://centpourcent.net/download/xmass_xmem-install.dsk)" if not enough for your usage, I suggest to install ImpDOS or UniDOS instead. FutureOS is not required at all, it will just waste your time and ROM slots, since there is no x-mass support.
Software section with links at the bottom of this page: https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/X-Mass
Quote from: TotO on 10:41, 13 December 22@caver99 If the DOS provided by the "x-mass installer for x-mem (https://centpourcent.net/download/xmass_xmem-install.dsk)" if not enough for your usage, I suggest to install ImpDOS or UniDOS instead. FutureOS is not required at all, it will just waste your time and ROM slots, since there is no x-mass support.
Software section with links at the bottom of this page: https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/X-Mass
ah right i didnt see what dos was provided sorry, would this be the xmass08#. one, sorry if i have missed something here, i can try again tonight.
Quote from: GUNHED on 15:02, 09 December 22Quote from: TotO on 14:17, 09 December 22Quote from: caver99 on 13:24, 09 December 22ok i understand now that the X-Mass isn't supported that will explain what i couldn't see the drive.
The X-MASS is the standard IDE mass-storage interface. It is natively compatible with BonnyDOS (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/BonnyDOS) used in Germany, UK and Spain with IDE drives into the 80's. It is nativelly supported by SymbOS (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/SymbOS), because the SYMBiFACE II expansion use the standard too. If FutureOS don't (or no more) support it, it is really a shame.
Really? Look how much X-MASS have been sold. Then look how much M4 cards have been sold. I guess the M4 expansion got sold 10 times more. So I guess the M4 is standard.
And btw. how much users does BonnyDOS have? 2 or 3?
IDE drives in the 80ies for the CPC? Please provide a link to that.
The standard mass media of the 80ies was the Dobbertin HD20 hard disc providing four partitions of 5 MB each. And it's supported by native OS, CP/M 2.2 and Plus as by FutureOS.
Today everybody uses the M4 card, because it got the best implementation into the native OS, got sold more than 1000 times.
And if I would support X-MASS before M4 this would be a shame. First I support what most users use, then anything else.
But if you mind, just make an XROM for FutureOS to support X-MASS. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :) :) :)
only 1-2 BonnyDos User. I used it for some years but now the M4 Card is my favorit...😉
xesrjb
Sorry but, the best Mass Storage Support is the xMass. (For me)
Yes, IDE still rocks :) It's fast and easy. I still prefer this TBH.
Today we have X-Mass/SYMBiFACE II/CPC-IDE, SYMBiFACE 3/RSF3, M4 Board, HxC/Gotek direct SD card access, Usifac II, Albireo.
Really cool, that today they are all supported by several AmsDOS extensions and replacements. And most of them by SymbOS as well, I still have to add Usifac II support.
And there is the 8255IDE from Jarek, still the fastest IDE device of all.
However the M4 card deleverst data inside the ROM and and that's the fastest possible way in CPC world. The only faster thing would be a real DMA chip (btw.: in this forum such a solution was presented).
@GUNHED I don't see why using a 8255 between the CPU and the HDD will make it faster than the X-MASS. It is more a commodity to interface a 8-bit bus to a 16-bit device.
Quote from: TotO on 15:50, 14 December 22@GUNHED I don't see why using a 8255 between the CPU and the HDD will make it faster than the X-MASS. It is more a commodity to interface a 8-bit bus to a 16-bit device.
IIRC it is mirroring the same port to multiple addresses. Because of this you don't need to INC B after each INI, I think only after four or eight INIs it has to be corrected. This saves again some microseconds for reading a sector.
Without all the additional overhead the theoretical speed would be:
- 162kB/s: CPC-IDE/SF2/X-MASS:
- 186kB/s: 8255IDE (or 190?)
- 195kB/s: M4 Board
@Prodatron OK, I have expected that programming a PIO will took more time than directly accessing the device.
@TotO : What Prodatron told. Good that he gave the answer and not me ;)
About Speedrates: Using M4 should be the fastest, because read data can be read from ROM. In theory I can get there to about what Prodatron told.
With my code I can read data in reality with around 122 KB / second (just tested with a 450 Kb file in 3,7 seconds approx). While IDE hard-discs etc are usually significantly slower in real life.
I'm not interrested about devices using a micro-sd card as mass-storage. But, I understand that is convenient. ;)
Quote from: TotO on 17:33, 14 December 22@Prodatron OK, I have expected that programming a PIO will took more time than directly accessing the device.
You are right. On the MSX we have the BeerIDE (https://www.msx.org/wiki/Beer_202) interface, which is using only a PPI8255 and not much more for communicating with the IDE interface. It is maybe the most easy IDE interface you can build for an 8bit system.
Here it is indeed like you say, as you have to go "through" the PPI, the communication is more circuitous and slower than with a usual IDE interface. In SymbOS MSX I get less than 90kB/s with this interface, the other ones are around 200kB/s.
No idea how Yarek did this, but I guess beside the 8255 he is using additional hardware as well.
@Prodatron Thanks for your answer. Anyway, 160 KB/s was the good expected speed for the X-MASS when it was designed. Adding a PPI would have increased size, price, and affected the compatibility with existing software for an insignificant gain over that. :)
Quote from: Prodatron on 11:22, 15 December 22Quote from: TotO on 17:33, 14 December 22@Prodatron OK, I have expected that programming a PIO will took more time than directly accessing the device.
You are right. On the MSX we have the BeerIDE (https://www.msx.org/wiki/Beer_202) interface, which is using only a PPI8255 and not much more for communicating with the IDE interface. It is maybe the most easy IDE interface you can build for an 8bit system.
Here it is indeed like you say, as you have to go "through" the PPI, the communication is more circuitous and slower than with a usual IDE interface. In SymbOS MSX I get less than 90kB/s with this interface, the other ones are around 200kB/s.
No idea how Yarek did this, but I guess beside the 8255 he is using additional hardware as well.
His interface reads a 16 bit value from the IDE device and then provides two time 8 bits to the CPC.
Quote from: TotO on 22:07, 14 December 22I'm not interrested about devices using a micro-sd card as mass-storage. But, I understand that is convenient. ;)
Is the storage media of the X-Mass more reliable compared to an SD card? Or is there another reason?
Quote from: GUNHED on 12:57, 15 December 22Is the storage media of the X-Mass more reliable compared to an SD card? Or is there another reason?
Sure, the DOM used on the X-MASS is an industrial SSD with SLC flash memory. It is designed to be used as a mass-storage not like a removable media (floppy disc, usb pen, ...). I'm using the micro-sd for the C4CPC, because it is not a problem if I lose ROM files that can be downloaded again. But I don't trust it for a main storage of a computer used to dev new softwares.
Quote from: Prodatron on 11:22, 15 December 22No idea how Yarek did this, but I guess beside the 8255 he is using additional hardware as well.
Except for address decoding no further "logic" is used.
A user has replicated the PCB a few years ago. You can check the schematics here:
https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/cpc-8255-ide/msg178245/#msg178245
Is the software still around? I couldn't find anything anymore.
Quote from: eto on 14:31, 15 December 22Quote from: Prodatron on 11:22, 15 December 22No idea how Yarek did this, but I guess beside the 8255 he is using additional hardware as well.
Except for address decoding no further "logic" is used.
A user has replicated the PCB a few years ago. You can check the schematics here:
https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/cpc-8255-ide/msg178245/#msg178245
Is the software still around? I couldn't find anything anymore.
That thread talks about two different IDE solutions. The IDE card from RPalmer is different / not compatible with the 8255IDE from Jarek.
About decoding: see before
Quote from: TotO on 13:20, 15 December 22Quote from: GUNHED on 12:57, 15 December 22Is the storage media of the X-Mass more reliable compared to an SD card? Or is there another reason?
Sure, the DOM used on the X-MASS is an industrial SSD with SLC flash memory. It is designed to be used as a mass-storage not like a removable media (floppy disc, usb pen, ...). I'm using the micro-sd for the C4CPC, because it is not a problem if I lose ROM files that can be downloaded again. But I don't trust it for a main storage of a computer used to dev new softwares.
Well, lots of backups are always important - what ever media you use. :)
Quote from: GUNHED on 00:51, 16 December 22Well, lots of backups are always important - what ever media you use. :)
Obviously, you can cross the ocean with a raft, the important thing is to take a lifebuoy. :-\
Quote from: GUNHED on 00:50, 16 December 22That thread talks about two different IDE solutions. The IDE card from RPalmer is different / not compatible with the 8255IDE from Jarek.
About decoding: see before
In that thread the first post shows a reverse engineered version of Yareks adapter. I never spoke about RPalmer and have not looked into his solution.
I have not even a close idea what you mean with "About decoding: see before". My comment was a response to Prodatron who assumed that Yarek did include more logic than a 8255. But actually it's really just a 8255 and 2 ICs for address decoding. The way it is done is as simple as clever, but there's no advanced logic.
Nevertheless, as long as we don't have publicly available ROMS/drivers or source codes that support it, it's useless. And so far I could not find that. Might be buried somewhere in the forums though...
Yes, I am surprised, that Yareks 8255 solution was so clever, while the BeerIDE 8255 solution is a typical cumbersome 8255 thing like we have with the AY on the CPC, and even Toto assumed, that it should be slow because of the 8255 in-between. Because of this I thought Yarek would use more stuff, but he didn't (I am not good in reading/understanding schematics at all).
Quote from: Prodatron on 12:31, 16 December 22Yes, I am surprised, that Yareks 8255 solution was so clever, while the BeerIDE 8255 solution is a typical cumbersome 8255 thing like we have with the AY on the CPC, and even Toto assumed, that it should be slow because of the 8255 in-between. Because of this I thought Yarek would use more stuff, but he didn't (I am not good in reading/understanding schematics at all).
The schematic is a 8-input nand IC to pre-decode 8bits from the address lines through a 3 lines demultiplexer. Nothing special, it is very common do to that. Next, the PIO 8255 interface the 8-bit CPU data bus to the 16-bit interface (PORT A and PORT B) and use the PORTC for the IDE control lines. It is the good way to do when you want to connect any 16-bit interface to a 8-bit system.
I don't know how are wired the other IDE interface using the same PIO 8255, probably without thinking about the code optimization that can be done to save some instructions because the design. Else, yes, it can be expected to be slower from a first point of view.
For example, just the fact to use A8 (invert) instead of A0 into the PlayCity design as allowed to save 2 scanlines for the player code.
Quote from: TotO on 13:57, 16 December 22For example, just the fact to use A8 (invert) instead of A0 into the PlayCity design as allowed to save 2 scanlines for the player code.
AH :-) I was already wondering, why it's inverted.
Quote from: eto on 10:50, 16 December 22Nevertheless, as long as we don't have publicly available ROMS/drivers or source codes that support it, it's useless. And so far I could not find that. Might be buried somewhere in the forums though...
But we have all that. Supporting ROMs (similar to Amsdos) and Source Code.
Quote from: GUNHED on 16:22, 16 December 22But we have all that. Supporting ROMs (similar to Amsdos) and Source Code.
I looked for it but didn't find it. It would be great if you could share where I can find it.
On Yareks website there is no source and no ROM.
Even the WIki page does not have any helpful information or links to a ROM or source:
https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/IDE8255
The 8255IDE wiki article claims, that this device is supposed to be supported in FutureOS. Beside some variables there is no information about this in the documentations (functions etc.), maybe Gunhed can tell us, where these functions are and how to use this?
Quote from: eto on 16:36, 16 December 22Quote from: GUNHED on 16:22, 16 December 22But we have all that. Supporting ROMs (similar to Amsdos) and Source Code.
I looked for it but didn't find it. It would be great if you could share where I can find it.
On Yareks website there is no source and no ROM.
Even the WIki page does not have any helpful information or links to a ROM or source:
https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/IDE8255
Well, I got in on disc. This means I need to move that to PC and that way to the internet.
Is there somebody at all who owns the interface (except me)?
Quote from: GUNHED on 21:01, 16 December 22Is there somebody at all who owns the interface (except me)?
If I have the software, I would probably order the PCBs and give it a try. Not necessarily immediately but probably early next year.
Do you also have the source? I would be really interested how read/write works and see the clever addressing in action.
Quote from: eto on 23:51, 16 December 22Do you also have the source?
He should, as he says, that he is supporting it in FutureOS. Maybe not in the official version, but perhaps in a hidden version (like the "IDE rom")?
Quote from: eto on 23:51, 16 December 22Quote from: GUNHED on 21:01, 16 December 22Is there somebody at all who owns the interface (except me)?
If I have the software, I would probably order the PCBs and give it a try. Not necessarily immediately but probably early next year.
Do you also have the source? I would be really interested how read/write works and see the clever addressing in action.
Sources: http://8bit.yarek.pl/interface/yamod.ide8255/index.html
There are two ROMs to be installed one at 7 (instead of Amsdos) and one at 15. Here is the DSK for that...