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General Category => CPCWiki Discussion => Topic started by: Hicks on 13:41, 04 March 14

Title: About TFM ban
Post by: Hicks on 13:41, 04 March 14
I just read this message from Gryzor:
ANNOUNCEMENT - TFM ban (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/cpcwiki-discussion/announcement-tfm-ban/)

I must say that I'm not very informed of the troubles you mention in this message, so I checked the last messages from TFM on the forum and didn't find anything very offencing. So maybe some messages has been deleted? I mean: I would like to understand the real reasons of this ban, and if the "offencing" messages are deleted, I cannot have my own opinion on the subject (It remember me that Phi2x has been banned too some years ago). Then I don't contest Gryzor's decision, but would like more "transparency" on this subject...
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Bryce on 14:18, 04 March 14
The deleted posts can be found here: http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/the-hall-of-shame/ (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/the-hall-of-shame/)  However the context is not always easy to understand as the previous posts are not linked to the deleted ones.

Bryce.
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Devilmarkus on 14:19, 04 March 14
I usually don't agree with Gryzor, always...
But in this case even I was speechless...

I need to talk with TFM and ask for details...

Because I don't want to judge him and want to know: "why?"...
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: ralferoo on 15:09, 04 March 14
To be honest, I think it'd be better to contact the admins privately about this and ask them their reasoning, rather than discussing it publically, especially as Gryzor's post makes reference to the existence of personal messages TFM sent to another user that are clearly not public.

A few points to consider:
None of these options benefit the community in a positive way. If you've been here long enough, no doubt you've seen many of the long-running threads and arguments that have been alluded to here. Use them as the basis of your understanding of why the admins might have felt the need to take this action. If you're new here, you have a choice. You can go back and read all those posts (TBH, I really wouldn't advise it). Or you could just trust that this is what the admins thought was the best solution. But please, let's not turn this into another right-or-wrong thread...
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Munchausen on 15:27, 04 March 14
I've noticed TFM being a little tetchy at times, but never anything really rude or offensive (I haven't read all the threads though, e.g. the game compo ones). It more seemed to me that he is sometimes overly defensive and thinks others judge him unfairly (though can't say whether he is right or wrong about that), leading to him responding somewhat aggressively. I think the language barrier might have something to do with it.

If he really has been throwing insults around then obviously that is cause for banning and is a shame.

I'll welcome him back though and hope everyone (TFM included) can let bygones be bygones. I like his presence in the forums, and hope he can stay without offending anyone.

I have to say I'd be pretty upset having everyone talk about this if it was me, so as DevilMarkus I also want to say to TFM; I dont judge, I don't know the facts.
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Devilmarkus on 15:43, 04 March 14
I at least know half of the facts...
So I can understand Gryzor's decision.

I dont want to judge, because I want to hear / read TFMs opinion about that...
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Devilmarkus on 15:45, 04 March 14

  • If things said by TFM in private are brought into the public, it would be inappropriate and would be seen as an attack on TFM.

In this case: No.
But as I already told: I want to hear the other side, too...
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Gryzor on 17:06, 04 March 14

@Hicks: as I said in the announcement, his offending posts were being deleted systematically, so as to keep the forum/discussions clean. Older, public discussions/flame wars with him that have been deleted are not available in the Hall of Shame that Bryce mentioned, unfortunately, because the HoS did not exist back then. But older members can undoubtedly recall lengthy brawls involving thread takeovers, name-calling and general unpleasantness.


Really, I can't give much more transparency than that. The only thing that happened behind the scenes was the PM which was out of the blue and very offensive. I confirmed as much as possible to convince me that it was unwarranted, but this last instance was just the straw that broke the camel's back, with the whole history being out there, so although I'm one for transparency myself, in this case I don't think there's a question about it. Not that I don't appreciate your view and opinion, understand, I'm just saying it's not about the PM.


@ralferoo: thanks mate, that's a fair analysis. I'd prefer not to give TFM's PM publicly, so I'm going out on a limb here and trust people to believe that it was utterly silly and offensive. But I'd prefer to move on rather than discussing it. However, I can understand why people would like to address the issue, so if someone prefers to do it in public I won't stop it - at least unless it turns into a flame or something.


@Munchausen: the compo thread was just one of many. TFM has been warned several (hm, lemme check... ok, ten times before this one!) times in the past and has been put under moderation a few more times besides, so there's history alright... The problem, as I've said in my announcement, is that every time he comes back calmed down but after a while he picks up fights again and again.


As for the why... well. We've had spats and fights between users in the past, but they all were one-offs. While I have a pretty good idea why TFM did what he did, truth is, I simply don't mind enough to pursue it; I've talked with him in the past several times trying to get his line of reasoning and his explanations were equally (if not more) offensive and ridiculous towards me. If he has something to say, he's got my email. As for the facts, it's simple enough: he cussed at someone and his overall (public) behavior has been rude for too long.

Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Hicks on 18:18, 04 March 14
@Gryzor: first, I must say that I'm not against you, and that the job of a "moderator" is always very hard to do. But I read the posts from TFM in the Hall of Shame and I must say that I didn't find anything very offencing, but just some critics, ironic messages, etc. Some of them were funny or interesting. And most of the time I was asking to myself: "Why these messages are in the Hall of Shame?!". I can't speak about his PM and deleted messages, since I can't read them (if these messages were still here, maybe there will be no discussion at all, and it will be better for everybody :).

To finish I must ask something: as you probably know, tastefulmrship was very offencing with Krusty, me or Push'n'Pop members at many times here, and wrote pure insults, devaluate our work each time he can. For me it's ok, he is free to do it and I think that people could make their own opinion on this subject. But he wasn't banned for this (and I think he shoud not be banned for that). So why now TFM is banned? In french we say "deux poids deux mesures" ("double standard" in english :)... Hm?
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Gryzor on 18:57, 04 March 14
I'm not saying you're against me or anything, we're just discussing :)


I can answer your questions, though the answers are already to be found in my announcement.


All it boils down to is: scale. Yes, each single post of TFM by itself may not appear so bad, and usually TFM takes care to tread on the limit, so at to later claim he was only joking, it was a misunderstanding or a language issue. This, of course, can only hold water so long. Taken all together, then, you see a behavioral pattern of disturbance to the point that he needed constant baby-sitting to ensure no offensive/disruptive remarks made it through. Simply put, if it was one, two or ten posts it'd be ok. When you have constant harassment, and when you have several members either reporting his posts or just quitting altogether, you have to take action.


[EDIT] For instance (I was reminded), see how he turned the competition results into a flame war. I considered that extremely bad for the community and he soured things so much so that he seriously impeded prospects for a future competition. That's not a user I feel should belong to this community.


To be honest, I don't know the instances you're talking about. I'm not policing the forum and I'm not even following all threads, so things will slip through as a matter of fact. If you don't report them, then chances are I won't do a thing. What's more, we're all adults here and the vast majority can take some abuse, so even if I see some offensive remark but no biting, I'l let it slide because it's better than starting a moderation thing. If you do report it, I'll seriously consider doing something about it.


I hope I've covered your questions, if not feel free to pursue them.
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 19:41, 04 March 14
To finish I must ask something: as you probably know, tastefulmrship was very offencing with Krusty, me or Push'n'Pop members at many times here, and wrote pure insults, devaluate our work each time he can. For me it's ok, he is free to do it and I think that people could make their own opinion on this subject. But he wasn't banned for this (and I think he shoud not be banned for that). So why now TFM is banned? In french we say "deux poids deux mesures" ("double standard" in english :) ... Hm?
@Gryzor; yep, I can't really argue with that!! You're well within your rights to ban me if you want! I'm a man, I can take my punishment if I have done the crime!
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Devilmarkus on 19:43, 04 March 14
@Gryzor; yep, I can't really argue with that!! You're well within your rights to ban me if you want! I'm a man, I can take my punishment if I have done the crime!

Hey, who unbanned you?  :P
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Gryzor on 19:45, 04 March 14
Well, bans can be had at affordable prices. €10 gets you a week-long ban. €15 for two weeks, €50 for a permanent one. All proceeds go towards building my new HTPC.


Back to being serious now...
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Devilmarkus on 19:46, 04 March 14
I take the 50€ ban.
You know my Paypal account, don't you?
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Gryzor on 19:48, 04 March 14
For you, it's free :D
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Devilmarkus on 19:49, 04 March 14
Oh, I'd not getting cash? Tzzzzz...
Hey Gryzor, did I already tell you, that you are very greedy?
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Gryzor on 19:50, 04 March 14
Got to feed the babies...
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: arnoldemu on 19:57, 04 March 14
Can this thread run on as long as the MMM thread?

When do we start wearing the t-shirts saying "Un-ban TFM"?
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Gryzor on 19:59, 04 March 14
Depends. If proceeds go towards building my HTPC, I can start selling them tomorrow..
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: arnoldemu on 19:59, 04 March 14
Markus, is that a tiger fish in your sig?
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Devilmarkus on 20:01, 04 March 14
You mean, my tiger smells like a fish?
Gryzor? Could you please ban arnoldemu for offending my fish? ehm... tiger?
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Gryzor on 20:02, 04 March 14
Enough bans for a day.


Now, let's get back on topic :)
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Devilmarkus on 20:08, 04 March 14
Yeah, back to topic:

As I already said, I don't want to judge here, because you all know, TFM is a good contact for me.

But... (now comes a but)

I know, what happened.

I really agree with the point, that what happened isn't discutable.

I agree, that Gryzor had to react.

My idea is:
The person, who was offended by TFM, TFM, I and, if you like, you, too, Gryzor, should discuss the problematic in a chat.

Don't we all have the same goal here?

That we can get older and older and smellier and so on, together, with our CPC until the day, the capacitators divorce us?
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Gryzor on 20:11, 04 March 14
Yes, except there has been way too much talking with TFM already. Besides, as I think I've made clear, this is not about the PM - this was just just the last in a string of problems. So even if we had the chat and they shook hands it still wouldn't make much difference...
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Munchausen on 00:05, 05 March 14
Sounds like a reasonable decision Gryzor.
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: steve on 02:05, 05 March 14
When do we start wearing the t-shirts saying "Un-ban TFM"?

Bluesbrothers was asking for ideas for t-shirts  ;D .

If Gryzor gets ban-happy, Bluesbrothers could make a lot of money selling t-shirts, he could pay Gryzor to ban someone then sell t-shirts to get that person unbanned. :laugh:
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: BluesBrothers on 02:35, 05 March 14
 :laugh: Genius.

I could be true to the Sugar ruthlessness and profit making ethos

On this occasion I think I'll pass though. Don't want to get involved in this one :-X

Bluesbrothers was asking for ideas for t-shirts  ;D .

If Gryzor gets ban-happy, Bluesbrothers could make a lot of money selling t-shirts, he could pay Gryzor to ban someone then sell t-shirts to get that person unbanned. :laugh:
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: AMSDOS on 07:47, 05 March 14
I think the reviewing of games presents an unusual debate because everyone has different ideas about the games they like and dislike. I guess if I could compare it with Food I like and dislike, it would reveal that people have preferences in their likes/dislikes which determine what works and what doesn't work with individuals.  ;D
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Gryzor on 09:06, 05 March 14
Erm... ok. Please, stay on topic - AMSDOS, I think your post was meant for another thread?


Thanks, Munchausen...
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: fano on 10:03, 05 March 14
Sadly i am not very surprised,  i just hope TFM will learn from that...
Moderating is not always easy and taking radical solution is not easy too but is sometimes necessary.
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Ygdrazil on 10:15, 05 March 14

Exactly my words!!

Sadly i am not very surprised,  i just hope TFM will learn from that...
Moderating is not always easy and taking radical solution is not easy too but is sometimes necessary.
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Gryzor on 10:27, 05 March 14
Yeah. Some times people tell me I should be more harsh and abrupt bringing the hammer down on every infraction. I find this too much. On the other hand, get too lenient and you get all the troubles we've been through...
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: AMSDOS on 11:11, 05 March 14
Erm... ok. Please, stay on topic - AMSDOS, I think your post was meant for another thread?


Thanks, Munchausen...

Not really, because I've noticed people getting worked up on the board about their games, which might be leading to these situations. I'm not going to guess what's been going on privately though.
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Bryce on 11:25, 05 March 14
People should be able to take criticism of their products and answer it appropriately. If someone criticises my hardware (even if they are not an electronics expert) I have two choices: (1) Agree with them and ask myself why I didn't think of that (forehead slap). (2) Explain why I chose not to do things a certain way or why their idea isn't technically or economically possible. That way I receive feedback (be it helpful or not) and in some cases, the critic may have learnt something about electronics that they didn't know.

What I don't do is fly off the handle, flame their product or tell them they haven't a clue. That's not what this community is or should be about. It's about sharing information and learning from others.
Of course, if I go around with the opinion that I already know more than everyone else and all others can only learn from me, I will neither learn anything, nor will I be very popular.

Bryce.
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: arnoldemu on 11:27, 05 March 14
You mean, my tiger smells like a fish?
Gryzor? Could you please ban arnoldemu for offending my fish? ehm... tiger?

BTW I say 4 colours ARE enough.

2 things now, almost time for my ban.
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Devilmarkus on 11:29, 05 March 14
BTW I say 4 colours ARE enough.

2 things now, almost time for my ban.

Why don't you go back, behind the scene? ;) :P
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: arnoldemu on 11:30, 05 March 14
Bluesbrothers was asking for ideas for t-shirts  ;D .

If Gryzor gets ban-happy, Bluesbrothers could make a lot of money selling t-shirts, he could pay Gryzor to ban someone then sell t-shirts to get that person unbanned. :laugh:

Yeah

I want a t-shirt that says "I've been banned from CPCWiki forum".

Or, one that says "I'm in the Hall of Shame".

Or, "Free the wiki banned".

Or, "I don't give a wiki (on the forum)!".

ahem.
 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Devilmarkus on 11:32, 05 March 14
I'd prefer:
"Banned by Chuck Norris"
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Devilmarkus on 12:00, 05 March 14
(http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u130/thebuggman/other%20stuff/ChuckNorrisBan.jpg) (http://s167.photobucket.com/user/thebuggman/media/other%20stuff/ChuckNorrisBan.jpg.html)
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Hicks on 12:23, 05 March 14
Ok, Gryzor seems to have the majority here. Democracy is the dictature of the masses :)
So I launch my petition "Freedom of speech for TFM, our CPC-Wiki dissident"!!
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Hicks on 13:41, 10 March 14
A little "mokup" created by my graphician to support TFM and sum up this thread  :)

[attachimg=1]

Maybe we should think about doing the remake of this game, it's very fashionable today!
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Gryzor on 14:00, 10 March 14
Seriously, dude? No, seriously?
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: rexbeng on 16:35, 10 March 14
Hm, ok, but the image feels kind of 'short' I think it needs chickens instead of aliens to go along with the two douches pictured. So, Hicks, tell your graphist he needs to try harder. :P

rb
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Carnivius on 19:08, 10 March 14
Kind of a clever edit to that loading screen but I feel this is starting to get somewhat out of hand.
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Gryzor on 19:24, 10 March 14
What I thought, too.
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Hicks on 22:59, 10 March 14
Auto-derision seems to be banished too. Sorry, I wasn't aware of that  ;)
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Gryzor on 23:04, 10 March 14
If it's auto-derision you want, feel free to exercise it. That means, deride yourself. Otherwise, as Merrian-Webster defines it, it's "to talk or write about (someone or something) in a very critical or insulting way : to say that (someone or something) is ridiculous or has no value.


What's more, it's pretty clear this is not a humorous post since you clearly state your support for TFM. As for "summing up this thread"... I wouldn't say so.


We've had our share of assholes crying "fascism!" in here, please don't feed the trolls.
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Hicks on 23:23, 10 March 14
If you can't feel the humoristic tone of my message, I really can't do anything for you... But this problem is frequent on CPC, especially when people never meet each other. So, don't believe that I'm your ennemy: I respect your work on CPC Wiki, but I disapprove the TFM ban. Then, since I'm a little bit caustic, I post this. And nobody speak about fascism here.
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Gryzor on 23:31, 10 March 14
Well, the problem is that several times in the past we've had troubles of this exact nature, persons pretending to be humorous while just being offensive (TFM being one of them). You could well be honest and with good intentions, and what with not knowing the history of the problems we've had it could be forgiven, but coming out and making fun of a moderator and calling them "censor" while new here is a bit... well, you get the meaning.


And believe me, the "fascist" characterisation has been thrown about quite a few times.


I don't have a problem with caustic people; I'm quite caustic myself. But being caustic with someone you have barely talked to before does not fall within the frame of good manners.
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Hicks on 23:55, 10 March 14
All of this for an undigested joke, tsssss...
I'm getting tired by you, Internet people, who never met any active CPC users in meeting, but who are explaining on the forums what to say, and who we are. These last 15 years, there were multiple opportunities to meet everybody in the scene in France or Germany, but we never see you. Then, I consider that you are not in position to give us some lessons here. And don't think that I'm alone to say that, because I'm not the only one to be bored by this arrogant attitude... but you have to come in meeting to discover this reality.
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Gryzor on 00:06, 11 March 14
Soooo let me see if I'm getting this right:


Because you haven't seen in in any of your meeting (incidentally, I haven't met you in any of the meetings I've been in Greece :D), you think you can waltz in here and judge me and find me to be arrogant because I am suspicious about someone who wants to be 'caustic' the first time they talk to me. Boy, you got some attitude issues...


As for the meetings being a measure, yeah, it's a well-known fact among the CPC scene members that there's an elitism prevalence that separates people between 'us' and 'them'. And, yeah, if you've become tired of me within the space of a two-page thread, imagine how bored most people have become of you people's elitism and presumption.


What's more, I'm trying to run a forum here and yes, there will be rules, and these rules have nothing to do with how many of you I have met in person but with fundamental issues of basic decency and respect; your elitism lies in that you think that because you've been to so many meetings and are so awesomely and fucking cool, you don't need to abide by them. Good luck with that.
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Hicks on 00:19, 11 March 14
There were of course a lot of Amstrad meetings in Greece these last years  ;D
It's obvious that you are speaking of something you don't know at all... Elitism in meeting... It's the exact inverse: friendship and human relations. Not trolls on the Internet because of sarcastic comments.
I stop here because it's a "no exit" discussion.
And I give you the last words, Censor Gryzor (fuck another caustic comment... I should be punished for this :)
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Gryzor on 00:24, 11 March 14
You seem to know all about meetings in Greece... kudos! I didn't know it must be a CPC-*specific* meeting for me to qualify as a worthy member of the scene! Tsk! My bad.


And: you're probably missing the plot, so let me spell it out for you: I don't care who and how much you hug with in the meetings, the elitism comes out towards those who don't participate.


You may pretend to be as much of a caustic as you want. But to be caustic it takes talent, it's not just about being offensive and arrogant. Keep that in mind next time someone looks at you thinking of words other than "caustic".


But I guess I shouldn't be surprised; the fact that you're siding with TFM, the person that most complaints have been leveled at in the past, speaks volumes...


PS Nice to see you addressing only a very few of the points I make...
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Token on 01:35, 11 March 14
Cpcwiki is probably mainly visited by people from the web, it's totally clueless to think it should be a website for people who meet or represented by an admin of your choice. Are you serious? Wow and you can deny it's not elitism on a hobby here. How cool :D


Gryzor is a nice guy. You don't even realise your sarcasms or what? ;D

There are underground CPC website, random people from the web don't visit them, they won't bug you, l33t place, see what I mean?
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Gryzor on 02:11, 11 March 14
Thanks mate. I really don't understand how some people are more entitled because they have attended some parties. Or how some are so aggressive...
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: ralferoo on 02:38, 11 March 14
Wow, what the hell happened here?   :o



Firstly to Gryzor, you probably did overact, but I can totally understand why - I'm sure you're sick of the entire TFM thing now and this must have seemed like a totally uncalled for personal attack. From a neutral point of view, if you take it as a joke the screenshot was pretty funny as a parody, but I guess it's hard in your position for this not seem like an attack.


But really, Hicks, whether it was meant as a joke or not, you must surely have known that that picture was going to have the potential to cause offence. There's really no way it couldn't. Especially, when you follow it up with all that other stuff in the subsequent posts.


Sure, you ARE active in the mainland Europe demoscene (even I've met you and I've only met a handful of CPC sceners) but to be fair you are pretty new to THIS forum. What you won't have seen is a very active and close-knit but also incredibly welcoming and tolerant community, the success of which is largely due to years and years of Gryzor putting in a lot of effort to keep the site up to date, manually get rid of all the spam, moderate things and generally keep this place a pleasant place to be. A lot of it is even unseen and unthanked, but take a look at the amount of spam edits on the wiki to see just how active the spambots are! Honestly, the only issue we've had since Gryzor took the helm is this stupid TFM debarcle. Just because you've not seen Gryzor at a French demoparty, doesn't mean he's not active in the CPC community. He pretty much runs the biggest CPC community singlehandedly. Maybe some of the French communities are bigger, I don't know. I'm sure it's the biggest English speaking CPC community.


For whatever reason, you're siding with TFM. That's your choice, I guess. You said earlier though,
Quote
But I read the posts from TFM in the Hall of Shame and I must say that I didn't find anything very offencing, but just some critics, ironic messages, etc
which suggests that you're basing your opinions on just that and you've missed all the occasions where TFM has single handed pissed off everybody else in the thread. This isn't a one off. This is par for the course with TFM. If you don't believe me, read through all the 16KB ROM competition threads. The whole thing was an embarassment from before the competition when he was trying to get people disqualified for letting some people see their entry early, to months afterwards when he was basically saying that the ONLY reason he lost was because there was an organised conspiracy to vote other people's games ahead of his. If I'm honest, TFM single handedly made me feel ashamed of our community and the fact that outsiders were hearing about our competition via Retro Gamer, coming to our forum and seeing that kind of bickering as representative of the CPC scene as a whole.


Like I say, I don't know the exact reasons why TFM was banned in this case, but I can be damned sure that they were good ones. I've been victimised by him too several times in the past. Once for example, I dared to make a positive comment about the 6502 to somebody else which lead to many insults and when I asked him politely over PM to tone it down, it got worse. There's absolutely no way of ever convincing him to even consider the possibility of another viewpoint when he has it in his head that he's right. After the idiocy he displayed last summer, I actually had him on my ignore list for about six months so that I didn't have to read any more of his posts unless somebody else quoted them. I've never done that on a forum or even newsgroup before, and I've been using the internet for over 20 years!


The frustrating thing is that TFM does have value to bring to the scene. He's still active, still writing software, still knowledgeable about the Z80 and CPC hardware. He can also be incredibly helpful when he chooses to be. It's just that he either likes to always pick fights or he genuinely has no way of comprehending that anyone might hold a different view to him or even worse, that someone else might actually be right. If anyone expresses an idea that he dislikes, he always sees it as a personal attack and starts with the insults. If a third party calls him out on it, he'll say it was only a joke but then continue again in a couple more days. If more than one person agree with the idea that's contrary to his view, he'll then start down the whole "everybody is against me" track.


Sad as it may be, a temporary ban really does seem to be the only thing he will respond to. No amount of polite requests were heeded last summer. Only when he received a few days ban did he actually start being pleasant for a while, but it didn't last long. Perhaps this time he might learn from a longer ban, only time will tell.


But seriously, attacking the moderator is ridiculous. This is so far off censorship, it's laughable that the term is even being used. At every step, Gryzor has made it totally clear what he was doing and why. It's certainly a far more open process than I've seen on almost every other forum I've ever been on.


Now can we please get back to being nice to each other?  :D
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 07:12, 11 March 14
Ok...?!?! I seem to have run out of popcorn.

Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Bryce on 10:12, 11 March 14
Can we close this thread now and get back to talking about what we actually all come here for? Our original subject was the Amstrad CPC as far as I can remember...

Bryce.
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Hicks on 14:29, 11 March 14
And how a single joke (with simleys) become a new scene drama... Quite despairing.
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: rexbeng on 14:49, 11 March 14
@Hicks: Maybe because the joke was on an already existing scene drama? ;D


Anyway, I can affirm that Gryzor has attended at least one meeting where 33% of the greek active CPC demoscene was present; and we talked a lot about the CPC. He also paid for my coffee, so I owe him the next one. Therefore Gryzor will possibly meet with that 33% of the greek CPC demoscene in the very near future. :P


rb
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: BSC on 14:52, 12 March 14
And how a single joke (with simleys) become a new scene drama... Quite despairing.


Is simleys a new game in the sim series? Will it be part of the eagerly expected 30 years frenc^h^h^h^h^h CPC scene demo?


PS:  :) ;) :D ;D
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: rexbeng on 15:15, 12 March 14
30 years frenc^h^h^h^h^h CPC scene demo?


I think we are two or maybe three years away from that, non?  ;D


rb
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Optimus on 15:53, 12 March 14
I just seen the pic from Hicks and spilled my coffee out of laughter. That's why I instantly put a like, it was... creative :)
But I realized later maybe it's offensive to most since I was the only one giving a like (I guess calling an admin censor is like godwins law), and don't believe of course gryzor was strict in general, given how much patient he was before with all these incidents. Just to let you know, don't want anyone to think I was against someone here, I spontaneously liked the pic because it seemed funny at first.


I've met TFM several years ago in CPC Only Meeting 2. He seemed like a nice guy, we felt like family, was good times. Of course I can see how he reacts when his game is taking not the most positive reviews or in any other occasion, I don't agree with the way he acts, don't know if I would have the heart to ban him if I was admin, so I don't know what to say. Perhaps he grows up one day and can return back to this forum without causing any more problems.
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Gryzor on 17:03, 12 March 14
No need to explain your Like mate; as a matter of fact, I found the image quite good too. It was the overall context that was problematic.


As for TFM, I think I made it clear that it wasn't easy at all for me either banning him; been deliberating for months about it...
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Devilmarkus on 20:25, 12 March 14
@Hicks: Really, I laughed, too ;)

@Gryzor: Hey, take it easy ;)

@All: Peace

Edit:
@TFM: Happy holidays
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Gryzor on 23:26, 12 March 14
That's what you said with Kangaroo, Leonie etc... you must know, by now, that "take it easy" only works for so long.
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: fano on 08:52, 13 March 14
That's what you said with Kangaroo, Leonie etc...
Seems you have a problem with german people, markus beware  :laugh:
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: MaV on 10:09, 13 March 14
Seems you have a problem with german people
Or the other way around.
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: fano on 10:53, 13 March 14
I'd say more that but there are not present so i can't speak about  :-X 
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: arnoldemu on 11:47, 13 March 14
TFM-M-M  :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Devilmarkus on 12:39, 13 March 14
Seems you have a problem with german people, markus beware  :laugh:

I don't think so.
Some Germans (Incl. me) may have problems sometimes in really understanding the meanings of things when written in a foreign language like English.
And some then behave strange.
Then, perhaps a comma or a smiley is missing, or whatever, and we have a nice drama scene ;)

Edit: We also seem to like drama scenes in German forums, so the language barrier maybe not the only reason
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 14:01, 13 March 14
Personally, I just don't like anyone... at least then everyone knows their place! ^_^
 
EDIT: Oh, I didn't put a proper smiley in it, so someone might take offence, so... ;-)
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: MaV on 14:22, 13 March 14
Nonsense. I can't remember anyone liking drama scenes in German forums.

Also, if this is a language barrier problem, simply by inference we all here must be at each others throats, since the inception of this forum, because there are English (from all parts of the Commonwealth), German, French, Spanish, Greek, Danish, Belgian, Italian, Romanian, Czech, Russian users here (and probably some I forgot to mention).

And let's face it, people speaking a Germanic language should have *less* problems understanding the basic vocabular and grammar of English. We're not doing a poetry contest here. And the occasional malapropism or wrong stylistic choice of words will readily be winked at by English native speakers.
Regardless of the concrete case here, language barrier has by now too often served as an excuse (even by Kanga IIRC).

Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Devilmarkus on 14:27, 13 March 14
Nonsense. I can't remember anyone liking drama scenes in German forums.

See? That's exactly what I meant.
The language barrier and the understanding of things.

My reply was meant a bit ironic.
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: MaV on 14:32, 13 March 14
My reply was meant a bit ironic.
Irony is usually lost in written conversation, unless you mark it as that or is anything but subtle. So, put a smiley at the appropriate location and it is taken for what it is.

That doesn't invalidate my statement at all.

Edit: typo
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Devilmarkus on 14:34, 13 March 14
Funny fact about the TFM ban:
Since he has been banned by Gryzor, we have a new permanent guest in my German CPC Forum ;)
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Bryce on 14:44, 13 March 14
Also, if this is a language barrier problem, simply by inference we all here must be at each others throats, since the inception of this forum, because there are English (from all parts of the Commonwealth), German, French, Spanish, Greek, Danish, Belgian, Italian, Romanian, Czech, Russian users here (and probably some I forgot to mention).

Ignoring the fact that you forgot YOUR OWN country :D ..... I feel insulted, marginalised, discriminated against..rant...rant...etc...because you forgot Ireland. :(

Bryce.
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: MaV on 15:15, 13 March 14
Oh yes, the Irish and the Austrians! How could I forget.

I demand an immediate ban of myself for my careless post! :D

Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 16:04, 13 March 14
Easy fix for all issues!
 
BAN EVERYONE!
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Gryzor on 17:05, 13 March 14
The "sorry, must have been a language barrier-related misunderstanding" excuse can only hold water for so long. I've only worked in multinationals in my life (not very long, then, but oh well), so I tend to work with foreigners from around the globe more than I do with Greeks (heh, working with some Germans these days). Some of them speak English fluently; with others, it's a nightmare. But never, ever have I or them been insulted or offended because of a linguistic faux pas, even though I very often go beyond business discussions with those persons. It's only in our scene where people claim, repeatedly so, that "ooh, must have been because I don't speak English that well" thing.


@MaV: "malapropism"? Thanks, man, learn something new every day.
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: steve on 17:29, 13 March 14
If only there was automatic translation of every post to the readers language, then we would not take offence with each other but blame the crap translation software instead.
Next step would be an autocensor so Gryzor would no longer be responsble for maintaining some level of civility between members. :o :D
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Gryzor on 17:31, 13 March 14
Lolz[nb]Lolen[/nb] :D
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: BSC on 17:41, 13 March 14
[...]

We're not doing a poetry contest here. And the occasional malapropism or wrong stylistic choice of words will readily be winked at by English native speakers.
[...]


Are you threatening me?! Did you just say malapropsien ... heck I can't even type that ...

Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: MaV on 18:06, 13 March 14
Lolz[nb]Lolen[/nb] :D
Also:
loler (french: rhymes with about 200 other words, half of which have a sexual connotation, while 10 are just slippery)
λολος (greek: The greek claim to have invented it based on an obscure tablet found on cyprus in the Arkadian dialect)
lollen (german: the discipline needed to speak it correctly amounts to 10 years of hard prussian military training or 10 years of daily heavy beer drinking)
llochjliabhetalana (irish: is actually just spelled lolz; linguists have heated arguments why it is written that way.)
¡lolé! (spanish: usually spoken unisono when groups of spaniards meet at arenas, stadiums and retro computing fairs in Madrid. How they achieve this at the same time is still a mystery, scientist claim it is a secret ingredient in the local tapas)

I guess, I'm trying to vent a bit of frustration at two escalations I had to handle at the same time these past days.
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: MaV on 18:07, 13 March 14
Are you threatening me?! Did you just say malapropsien ... heck I can't even type that ...
No probs, I can offer training! ;)

Zu irgendwas muss die Schule ja gut gewesen sein!
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: rexbeng on 18:17, 13 March 14
Also: [...]


Care to parse the word 'lolita' as well? ;D


rb
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: MaV on 18:31, 13 March 14
Care to parse the word 'lolita' as well? ;D
Sure. It's old greek for "best lolerette" (the translation does not quite convey the meaning - see below for its roots)
The word apparently lost its "s" (originally lolista) and the ending -a points to the dialect of Lesbos (cf. attic σελήνη and eolic σελάννα as can be seen in poems of Sappho). It is known that Sappho housed a lot of girls in her house, and while Greek men tried their best at Olympia, women had their fun at Lesbos (where else, the men were all occupied).
Alas, the details of the festivities and what the lolista was best at can only be guessed. The only copy of the lolitonomicon rested in the library of Alexandria (so, the Romans are to blame for the burning of the book). The book itself is said to explain strange rituals in scarce clothing under the moon light at the beach in one chapter.


Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: rexbeng on 18:39, 13 March 14
Sure.


I just wanted to say that I liked your post three times already! ;D


rb
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Gryzor on 19:00, 13 March 14
Also:
loler (french: rhymes with about 200 other words, half of which have a sexual connotation, while 10 are just slippery)
λολος (greek: The greek claim to have invented it based on an obscure tablet found on cyprus in the Arkadian dialect)
lollen (german: the discipline needed to speak it correctly amounts to 10 years of hard prussian military training or 10 years of daily heavy beer drinking)
llochjliabhetalana (irish: is actually just spelled lolz; linguists have heated arguments why it is written that way.)
¡lolé! (spanish: usually spoken unisono when groups of spaniards meet at arenas, stadiums and retro computing fairs in Madrid. How they achieve this at the same time is still a mystery, scientist claim it is a secret ingredient in the local tapas)



And this, I think, qualifies as Post of the Month. Thank you.


As a note of interest, and I had never before made the connection, there is the Greek word "λωλός" (pronounced about the same though) meaning silly, crazy :D
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: robcfg on 20:41, 13 March 14
I suggest the creation of a 'sarcasm' tag to avoid further problems.







</sarcasm> Lolé! :D
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: BSC on 20:51, 13 March 14
Sure. It's old greek for "best lolerette" (the translation does not quite convey the meaning - see below for its roots)
The word apparently lost its "s" (originally lolista) and the ending -a points to the dialect of Lesbos (cf. attic σελήνη and eolic σελάννα as can be seen in poems of Sappho). It is known that Sappho housed a lot of girls in her house, and while Greek men tried their best at Olympia, women had their fun at Lesbos (where else, the men were all occupied).
Alas, the details of the festivities and what the lolista was best at can only be guessed. The only copy of the lolitonomicon rested in the library of Alexandria (so, the Romans are to blame for the burning of the book). The book itself is said to explain strange rituals in scarce clothing under the moon light at the beach in one chapter.


Wow! Is dealing with sappicism and the likes your profession?! me envy! Also: bloody on topic we are - an I like it :D
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Gryzor on 21:07, 13 March 14
Spent some time on Lesvos (Mytilene) island doing my military service. Imagine my surprise as, when the ship approached the harbor for the first time, I saw a huge banner greeting me: "LESBIAN SUMMER". That was a nice welcome message...
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: MaV on 22:34, 13 March 14

"λωλός"
"LESBIAN SUMMER"
Lolz! No, wait! That must be λωλoι. :)


@BSC: Nope. It's just the usual IT-job. However, I am interested in linguistal topics and old languages.

Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: MaV on 22:47, 13 March 14
Hm, I'm beginning to wonder if lingerie with a small printed sign "λωλιστῃ" - to the best lolerette - might be a good sales idea. ;) (btw, the official spelling is now with
ω since Gryzor established its common origin with λωλός. ;) )
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Carnivius on 23:17, 13 March 14
do i have to go to a meeting to be a qualified cpc community person-dude?   :'(
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 23:32, 13 March 14
do i have to go to a meeting to be a qualified cpc community person-dude?   :'(


You haven't undergone the ritual of eightbittenisation? OMG! Heretic! :p


I haven't gone to any meetings either. Certainly not in Greece.
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 08:44, 14 March 14
I've been to numerous Amiga copy parties in the early 90s (with Pogo T Mighty, Pieman, the Bamiga Sector 1 and Kent Team guys). Does that count? Am I allowed to say that I support the CPC or can I only support Aaammmiiigggaaahhh?
(Not that I'm bothered, as the Amiga has some seriously awesome demos spanning decades, including the Retro Platform Demo winner from Revision 2013, which is questionable in itself as a 16-bit platform shouldn't really be competing with 8-bit machines and the Amiga has it's own category... but I reckon that ship has sailed a long time ago! However, it was nice to see Rink-A-Dink (http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=61182) as Paradroid originally intended it and Nuke's tunes are always amazing! I've done a CPC conversion of the "hidden-part" music, Car Boot Sale, and plan to release it one day as part of my new musicdisk... if we ever get the thing coded! ^_^ Sorry, coder friend, no offense intended! See, I'm using smileys to convey an sense of sarcasm and humour to stoic, plain text)
 :)



Also, I am confused?!?!?! Does each post have to have a smiley in it as well? Just so we all know it's not meant to be insulting (as it's obviously the international internet symbol of sarcasm and humourous banter amongst people who have never met and probably never will or want to)


:-)



(EDIT: This was meant to be a tiny, few words post, but I got a little carried away! Sorry about that!)
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: AMSDOS on 10:23, 14 March 14
I suggest the creation of a 'sarcasm' tag to avoid further problems.







</sarcasm> Lolé! :D

I always thought that if sarcasm was in Italics, it would look more sarcastic.

Stone the Flamin' Crows


I could somewhat relate to Steve McQueen from The Great Escape on the other CPC Forum before it went down because I had a go at the design from the onset and got Sent to the Cooler, and went back again for whinging and doing something stupid.  ;D
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Bryce on 10:31, 14 March 14
llochjliabhetalana (irish: is actually just spelled lolz; linguists have heated arguments why it is written that way.)

What a great word, but you seem to have slipped some Welsh and Icelandic into it too :) (no wonder the linguists are confused) Double L at the start = Welsh only (what a wierd language). J in the middle is more Icelandic, in Irish we don't have a J at all. In fact we don't have J, K, Q, V, W, X, Y or Z in our alphabet!

Lolz in Irish would be Gaoa = Gáire amach os ard :)

Bryce.
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Gryzor on 16:18, 14 March 14
Hm, I'm beginning to wonder if lingerie with a small printed sign "λωλιστῃ" - to the best lolerette - might be a good sales idea. ;) (btw, the official spelling is now with
ω since Gryzor established its common origin with λωλός. ;) )


Μορε ιντερψον--oooops sorry, forgot my keyboard while looking for etymologies. Ahem


More interconnectedness: λωλός is a synonym of μωρός (stupid, silly, crazy). However, μωρός has the same root as μωρό, meaning baby, and naturally also "babe". Bazinga!


PS I think I'm making some custom undies with "λωλίστη" (why the undertone on "η"?) for my girl :D
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: MaV on 09:47, 15 March 14
Quote from: Gryzor
PS I think I'm making some custom undies with "λωλίστη" (why the undertone on "η"?) for my girl :D
the undertone is the proper dative case for old greek. You can ignore it, if you like. ;)
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Gryzor on 11:00, 15 March 14
Yeah, I know all about dative cases, but was that a dative?


Bah, we're too far off-course! TFM will  be back (?) in three days!
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: TotO on 13:37, 15 March 14
If he want to be back... (worst topic ever w/ 100+ likes)
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: ralferoo on 14:10, 15 March 14
So λωλολαλεσει? ;)
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 08:53, 16 March 14
FRANCE 20 - 22 IRELAND!



(Sorry! This thread seems to just be a dumping ground for anything non-topic related... so I thought this was the best place to put this!)

EDIT: Oh, I forgot the smiley -  :laugh:

EDIT: Ooops, even the smiley seems offensive, so here's a normal one -  :)

EDIT: Wow! Even that smiley seems to be mocking the French rugby team and supporters. Ok, I quit! Ban me!
 
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: TotO on 09:40, 16 March 14
Yes, the men team is not good... Stupid play up to the end. (a drop was so easy to achieve in the last minutes)
But, the french women team kick ass all and won the grand slam.  :-*
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Munchausen on 10:12, 16 March 14

You haven't undergone the ritual of eightbittenisation? OMG! Heretic! :p


I haven't gone to any meetings either. Certainly not in Greece.


+1  :o
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: MaV on 18:03, 16 March 14
Yeah, I know all about dative cases, but was that a dative?
Yep. Since this is an adjective, see also:
Apple of Discord - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_of_Discord)

καλλίστῃ for "to the fairest" (or modern greek: καλλίστη) - but I did make a mistake: you need to add the article: τῇ (or modern: τη)
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Gryzor on 18:08, 16 March 14
Actually I only understood later that the dative was intentional, but anyhow; sounds better indeed! As for the article, no, you don't need it. In ancient Greek you can do away with pretty much anything that is implied and has a one-to-one relation. Dative implies the article and the specific article only goes with dative, therefore it can be omitted. I think.


(modern Greek is "στη(ν)").
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: EgoTrip on 00:40, 17 March 14
You got lucky on that forward pass though. Still, it was a good way for O'Driscoll to go out. All those penalties England gave away in the Wales match was what lost them the 6N trophy.
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: beaker on 02:39, 17 March 14
I think it was the right result :)

Great way to end your career.
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: BSC on 18:15, 26 March 14
I think it was the right result :)

Great way to end your career.


TFM ended his CPC career..?
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: beaker on 18:49, 26 March 14
I hope not. Went a bit off topic and was talking about the rugby lol
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: Animalgril987 on 00:53, 19 March 21

Quote from: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 13 March 2014, 21:32:57

You haven't undergone the ritual of eightbittenisation? OMG! Heretic! :p


I haven't gone to any meetings either. Certainly not in Greece.


+1 

Another +1  :(
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: GUNHED on 02:45, 19 March 21
What on old topic coming up....


Well then. Greetings from TFM - he wishes all of you just Light, Love, Peace, Health and Creativity.  :)
Title: Re: About TFM ban
Post by: VintageAdvantage on 04:10, 19 March 21
Quote from: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 13 March 2014, 21:32:57

You haven't undergone the ritual of eightbittenisation? OMG! Heretic! :p


I haven't gone to any meetings either. Certainly not in Greece.


+1

Another +1 

Wtf is this? And so unnecessary... after all these years. Well, where is the HOS button when you need it... :D   

Quote
Quote from: Gunhed
Well then. Greetings from TFM - he wishes all of you just Light, Love, Peace, Health and Creativity. 

To you too  :D