AFAIK, we have to use "AMSTRAD Plus" naming instead of "CPC+"
Both terms are used in the wiki, even if a single page (dor example, the gate array one).
Is there a Technical possibility to automate the replacement?
And automatically alert in the submission of text with the wrong wording?
Do we "have" to? Or do a handful of overly pedantic people think we should?
Quote from: andycadley on 09:12, 29 May 25Do we "have" to? Or do a handful of overly pedantic people think we should?
Where if not in the Wiki should we be pedantic about CPC related information?
Calling it CPC+ every now and then is not only wrong, it's also confusing. At least when you are not familiar with the topic for years. That's what happened to me until I read somewhere explicitly that there is no CPC in its name and that people always call it wrong.
Quote from: eto on 09:39, 29 May 25Quote from: andycadley on 09:12, 29 May 25Do we "have" to? Or do a handful of overly pedantic people think we should?
Where if not in the Wiki should we be pedantic about CPC related information?
Calling it CPC+ every now and then is not only wrong, it's also confusing. At least when you are not familiar with the topic for years. That's what happened to me until I read somewhere explicitly that there is no CPC in its name and that people always call it wrong.
If you're going to be that pedantic though, there is no such thing as an "Amstrad Plus" either. Nor a CPC for that matter. There is a CPC464, CPC664, CPCP6128, 464+ and 6128+.
Using CPC as shorthand for the first three is as "incorrect" as using CPC+ as shorthand for the latter.
Amstrad lose a trial and CPC usage but obviously the Amstrad Plus was supposed to be named CPC+ or CPC Plus ... listen to Roland interviews. CPC is 8 bits. Any 16 bits was already there, as PC.
464 PLUS (464plus), 6128 PLUS (6128plus), as printed on the packaging, instruction manuals and computers?
Amstrad range of computers:
- CPC
- PCW
- PC
- PLUS
Quote from: Egg Master on 12:09, 29 May 25464 PLUS (464plus), 6128 PLUS (6128plus), as printed on the packaging, instruction manuals and computers?
Amstrad range of computers:
- CPC
- PCW
- PC
- PLUS
Amstrad never just refer to it as just a "Plus" though. In fact the manual pretty much refers to it as 464/6128 (without any + designation) throughout. It clearly belongs to the same lineage as the CPC and I don't really see any point pandering to the handful of people of people who want them to not count for whatever weird reason.
Quote from: Egg Master on 12:09, 29 May 25464 PLUS (464plus), 6128 PLUS (6128plus), as printed on the packaging, instruction manuals and computers?
Amstrad range of computers:
- CPC
- PCW
- PC
- PLUS
Forgot the NC :D
/Ygdrazil
Quote from: Ygdrazil on 15:13, 29 May 25Quote from: Egg Master on 12:09, 29 May 25464 PLUS (464plus), 6128 PLUS (6128plus), as printed on the packaging, instruction manuals and computers?
Amstrad range of computers:
- CPC
- PCW
- PC
- PLUS
Forgot the NC :D
/Ygdrazil
The NC, PPC (and ALT, ACL, ANB), Mega PC and a PenPad. Also a console and 2 models of ZX Spectrum. We could argue also that the PCW16 is a different range from the rest of PCWs since it's not compatible. Another special case is the PC-20 which is a version of the Sinclair PC200 (integrated form factor PC)
Regarding the conversation: For the 8 bit home computers for me there are clearly 2 ranges:
CPC and Plus
So it's correct to talk about Amstrad CPC and Amstrad Plus. What it would be never correct is to say CPC+, so I vote for not using that naming in the CPC Wiki where the whole point is to preserve the Amstrad 8 bit legacy.
Exactly.
Also, acting "pedantic" should be a desirable character trait among those devoted to such a super niche hobby. Non? ;D
Quote from: abalore on 15:19, 29 May 25Regarding the conversation: For the 8 bit home computers for me there are clearly 2 ranges:
CPC and Plus
So it's correct to talk about Amstrad CPC and Amstrad Plus. What it would be never correct is to say CPC+, so I vote for not using that naming in the CPC Wiki where the whole point is to preserve the Amstrad 8 bit legacy.
But that is, as you say "for you"
Amstrad themselves didn't see the need to make a distinction like that. In fact they fully intended that, when not playing console games, there would be no difference between a 464 and a 464+. The "plus" moniker is literally supposed to be shorthand for "plus a GX4000"
It seems very weird to make a completely arbitrary distinction when Amstrad themselves did not.
Quote from: andycadley on 13:13, 29 May 25Amstrad never just refer to it as just a "Plus" though.
They just refer to "Plus" on the box, on the computer, on the manual, on the ads. It's not enough?
AMSTRAD PLC :laugh: This is what is written on every PLUS mainboard ;)
cucumber season? :picard:
Quote from: Egg Master on 16:35, 29 May 25Quote from: andycadley on 13:13, 29 May 25Amstrad never just refer to it as just a "Plus" though.
They just refer to "Plus" on the box, on the computer, on the manual, on the ads. It's not enough?
Right next to 464 or 6128. Try finding something that just says Amstrad Plus with no mention of the numbers.
Quote from: andycadley on 19:59, 29 May 25Try finding something that just says Amstrad Plus with no mention of the numbers.
1) The Arnold V specs.
They mention the "Plus range" and they mention the "CPC range". Never is the Plus a part of the CPC range in that document.
2) Advertisements:
e.g.
https://acpc.me/ACME/DOCUMENTS_COMMERCIAUX/PUBLICITES/6128PLUS_Underneath_this_computer_is_an_arcade_fighting_to_get_out[ENG].jpg
Again - "Plus range" and not mentioning the CPC name (except for that the Plus range is compatible with CPC titles)
Anyway. When looking at the Wiki articles that mention the CPC+ I can understand that "Amstrad Plus range" is not used as it would feel weird (to me) to use the full name in many places and just "Plus" is also awkward as it's doesn't feel to be a real name.
I like acronym CPC+, and it was often used in scrollers in demos in early 90s. :)
People from retro community know it, and if they don't, they need to be taught it.
Do you know CoCo computers? Even Google and Wikipedia know this colloquial term, although it was officially called differently. I'm more concerned that Google doesn't associate "CPC+" with computers. :(
Quote from: McArti0 on 19:46, 29 May 25AMSTRAD PLC :laugh: This is what is written on every PLUS mainboard ;)
cucumber season? :picard:
PLC is not PLUS or CPC, neighter "PLus Cpc" :laugh: But Public Limited Company. ;)
May be for cucumber? :picard:
CPC and A+ (Like some vitamin?)
Quote from: Egg Master on 07:30, 30 May 25Quote from: McArti0 on 19:46, 29 May 25AMSTRAD PLC :laugh: This is what is written on every PLUS mainboard ;)
PLC is (...) "PLus Cpc" :laugh:
This closes the thread... ;D
This one always annoyed me.
There is *no* CPC+, You either have an Amstrad CPC or you have a 464/6128 Plus. It really is that simple and everything else is just plain wrong.
Now in saying that, automating the mistake and going back through decades of the sites history to correct it must be one of the most daft ideas I've ever seen.
A little cop on going forward however is another story.
-
@andycadley: I fully agree with
@eto,@dodogildo (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/profile/?u=1547) and I guess
@abalore, such a resource as cpcwiki HAS TO BE pedantic
-
@Egg Master: So Plus would fit better than Amstrad Plus. I was probably biased because in France we mainly say "Amstrad CPC", less often "CPC" alone. In fact it is probably even more common to say only "Amstrad"
-
@Shaun M. Neary: at least I added daft to my list of newly learnt word
Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 08:40, 30 May 25This one always annoyed me.
There is *no* CPC+, You either have an Amstrad CPC or you have a 464/6128 Plus. It really is that simple and everything else is just plain wrong.
Now in saying that, automating the mistake and going back through decades of the sites history to correct it must be one of the most daft ideas I've ever seen.
A little cop on going forward however is another story.
There was never a CPC+ because of a trademark dispute (which taken to it's literal conclusion means they shouldn't ever use CPC and neither should we). Personally I think CPC+ better describes the heritage of the machine and what Amstrad would've likely preferred it to be called.
I still don't like just Plus (or Amstrad Plus) because it doesn't disambiguate machines like the +2, +3 etc but whatever. I agree that trying to automate it is a fools errand (especially given there are pages describing the terms as synonymous).
Copilot:
"The Amstrad CPC+ series was an improved version of the original Amstrad CPC computers, released in 1990. It included models CPC 464 Plus and CPC 6128 Plus, which featured upgraded graphics and sound capabilities compared to their predecessors.
No, the computers from the Amstrad Plus series did not have "CPC" in their official names. The models were called 464 Plus and 6128 Plus, without the CPC designation. However, since they were enhanced versions of the Amstrad CPC computers, they are often informally referred to as "CPC Plus" or "CPC+."
Are you interested in a specific difference between CPC and the Plus series? 😊"
Quote from: andycadley on 08:49, 31 May 25Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 08:40, 30 May 25This one always annoyed me.
There is *no* CPC+, You either have an Amstrad CPC or you have a 464/6128 Plus. It really is that simple and everything else is just plain wrong.
Now in saying that, automating the mistake and going back through decades of the sites history to correct it must be one of the most daft ideas I've ever seen.
A little cop on going forward however is another story.
There was never a CPC+ because of a trademark dispute (which taken to it's literal conclusion means they shouldn't ever use CPC and neither should we). Personally I think CPC+ better describes the heritage of the machine and what Amstrad would've likely preferred it to be called.
I still don't like just Plus (or Amstrad Plus) because it doesn't disambiguate machines like the +2, +3 etc but whatever. I agree that trying to automate it is a fools errand (especially given there are pages describing the terms as synonymous).
As for Amiga and 500/500+
We may use OCS and ECS :)
About 10 years ago on Polish Amiga forum most active group were fans of so-called Amiga NG, i.e. designs that were created after fall of Commodore, and had a PowerPC processor instead of Motorola, had an OS written for PPC with a built-in emulator of 68k and AGA chipsets. In addition, when fans of real old Amigas accused them that they shouldn't call these designs "real Amigas", they got angry and justified why they had the right to call them that.
Then, when someone wanted to talk about these old real Amigas produced by C=, to make it clear what they were talking about, they started calling them "Classic", and then appeared one who was very bothered by this name. He claimed that C= had never produced anything called "Classic Amiga", so this name shouldn't be used because it desecrates memory of these real Amigas that had such a great influence on history of computers, unlike Amiga NG. He was very active and spoiled every thread with his comments on subject, he even found two supporters. And arguments of majority that word Classic is not an insult did not reach him, creators of music from 200 years ago did not know that they were creating classical music either, only contemporary ones called it that. Such quarrels lasted almost 5 years before he gave up and the forum became calmer again.
When I read this thread about CPC+, I remember this chaos and I would really not like it to repeat itself here. In my opinion, McArti0 summed up topic well that term CPC+ is a colloquial name that is synonymous with Amstrad Plus. And fact that this name annoys someone is no reason to annoy everyone around.
Quote from: roudoudou on 13:12, 31 May 25As for Amiga and 500/500+
We may use OCS and ECS :)
The A500 Plus had this name on the box, case, manual, ...
Some late A500 was ECS, because using A500+ motherboard.
Quote from: ZorrO on 18:04, 31 May 25when someone wanted to talk about these old real Amigas produced by C=, to make it clear what they were talking about, they started calling them "Classic", and then appeared one who was very bothered by this name. He claimed that C= had never produced anything called "Classic Amiga"
And that's right. Just call them Amiga NG and keep the Amiga name for Commodore. About the Amstrad computers, it's even more absurd to call the CPC "old" to compare it to the CPC "plus," instead of using their respective names.
Ok let's fight ha ha
It's a matter of taste, colleagues and friends of the CPC
I always called our "enhanced", of our family CPC models, as CPC Plus or CPC+ for to be quicker.
As french software editors Loriciels and Titus, that put CPC+ in floppy games with enhanced colour version: B.o.B Karate ; Bumpy's ; D-Day ; Golden Eagle ; Prehistorik II
And here the scene and users always named it as CPC+ / CPCplus. Because frankly is a CPC ...
In other Z80 microcomputer families is common the cross sign + , as synomym of enhanced 8bit: MSX2+ , ZX Spectrum + , +2 , +3 ...
Amstrad did a PCW 9512+ too (with 3,5" floppy drive) , because that, the cousin PCW scene is calling new enhanced Colour PCW+ as PCWplus
How to call the old CPC models ? ???
Easy :
CPC classic
Amstrad plc was not very supportive of the new Plus machine after its attempt to sell the "CPC console" ha ha, sorry GX !!
Amstrad was very close in promoting new video capabilities for the users... Because of its plan to sell millions of cartridges like Nintendo.
No B-ASIC by Amstrad at all.
Incredible mistake.
The worst for me is/was that since 6128, Amstrad not used the serif CPC capital letter Logo as corporative of the System in the computer design . Yes in 6128 manual.
Other CPC+ only disk games: SpaceGun by Ocean and Fluff by Radical.
In cassette with enhanced colour support: Striker Crypts Trogan by Codemasters
For you, mates! the GX4000 console really is not a CPC ? ...
c'mon !! Hundred of CPR ports from CPC disks , it is great , amazing !!!
This CPC user scene is the best.
And healthy, not entering in 8bit wars... that is for ZX , C64 , MSX people ...
Long life to CPC 8bit System , CPC enhanced (Plus) and to all of us
I like name CPC+2 for 464+, and CPC+3 for 6128+. You don't like it sue me, or Eat my shorts. :P
The name CPC+ has nothing misleading about it, on the contrary, it refers to roots of platform with which Plus is compatible and is more widely known than the less popular Pluses, so it is immediately clear what kind of equipment I am talking about, and word Plus is part of names of so many different products that it is simply misleading.
Sure, but it is not its name. :P
I wish those stupid plusses were never released. Imagine how we could fight over religion, politics, music or other stuff instead. :-X
@BSC - It is true that after 1990, at a price twice as high as CPC classic, they did not conquer the market and lost in this price range to much better 16bits. Only Amstrad fanboys bought them.
But nobody forced them, and I do not feel sorry for them. But since the Pluses have already appeared, instead of erasing them from history, I would prefer to be created a GA replacement and giving every classic the power of Pluses. :)
What if we called CPC+ "CPC" and the older generation "CPC-"? ;D
Just kidding...
Or Spectrums way:
464 - CPC
6128 - CPC+
464+ - CPC+2
6128+ - CPC+3
GX - CPC+X ;)