CPCWiki forum

Hello guys,
As a very few of you may have notices, yesterday we started censoring some 'bar' words in the forum. But I thought we'd have some discussion about it, since I don't feel very comfortable with it...


The thing is, I guess we should keep some kind of language level in the forum. On the other hand, we're all adults here... True, some may get offended by some word or the other, but then again putting asterisks in its place sounds somewhat hypocritical to me...
So cast your votes and let us know...
Cheers
Gryzor

I think everyone shows in his/hers postings, what he/she is.

  In the one side: when someone uses words like fu*k, or other "not so   nice" expressions, it's shown that this user
a) hasn't much to say @   home or
b) left school too early or
c) don't know how to express him-/herself

That's why I think a smart censoring would be a good solution.
Other cases (Change C64 to breadbin64) are annoying. Thats why I removed that.

Of course each person's language shows their level. That's why I said that the whole thing can be self-regulating. On the other hand, come on, I think I come from a good family, I have a university degree plus two post-grads and I love you all guys, however this doesn't mean I don't use the occasional swear-word... as we all do.

I guess, in the end, if someone decides to start swearing (and I don't think we had this problem in the past) we could just warn them, edit their posts and in the end ban them. IF the problem is so grave.

As for the breadbin.... oh man, you are lame :D This was meant as an easter egg kind of joke. Stop being a grandad now that you had your birthday!

DevilMarkus, in the UK doctors, scientists, government officials and university peeps all swear. In fact it's a second language over here. Damn even the foreigner swears, in fact it's the first bit of English everyone learns. Stop being a massive old fanny, this is a democracy you know?   ;) 

Quote from: Devilmarkus on 08:48, 14 April 10
I think everyone shows in his/hers postings, what he/she is.

  In the one side: when someone uses words like fu*k, or other "not so   nice" expressions, it's shown that this user
a) hasn't much to say @   home or
b) left school too early or
c) don't know how to express him-/herself

That's why I think a smart censoring would be a good solution.
Other cases (Change C64 to breadbin64) are annoying. Thats why I removed that.

I don't mind either way (but I did vote for 'self-regulation').

However, I agree with ukmarkh and think that people who don't speak English as their mother tongue are suprised at just how much we do swear in the UK when they visit.

Of course you wouldn't say it in front of your mother, but amongst friends (and sometimes work collegues) it is commonplace.

In french too :  putain, merde and fait chier are part of our delicate culture...

We are not like American who Bip every fucking time someone er...oops, sorry... ;D

Quote from: MacDeath on 16:20, 14 April 10
In french too :  putain, merde and fait chier are part of our delicate culture...

And croissants.  :P

In Germany though, and i've been there many times. The people seem to think completely different about things to the rest of europe, especially British people. I'm not sure why, and can't really put my finger on it, but just different... I suppose better maybe, If the truth be known. I went over with a friend the last time I was there, some of his friends are German, great folk. Anyway, I cracked a joke around the dinner table that included a few swear words, everyone laffed, but seemed shocked at the profanity.

I also felt safer somehow, and the people are really friendly. It reminds me of southern Ireland; clean, friendly and full of life.

Quote from: Gryzor on 08:17, 14 April 10
Hello guys,
As a very few of you may have notices, yesterday we started censoring some 'bar' words in the forum. But I thought we'd have some discussion about it, since I don't feel very comfortable with it...


The thing is, I guess we should keep some kind of language level in the forum. On the other hand, we're all adults here... True, some may get offended by some word or the other, but then again putting asterisks in its place sounds somewhat hypocritical to me...
So cast your votes and let us know...
Cheers
Gryzor

I do swear, but I think that really it is not necessary 90% of the time to do so.
When you have kids you will quickly learn that you don't want them to use the swear words so you try hard not to swear, and as a result find that you swear much less.

I don't really like to read a message posting that is full of swearing.. because in my opinion the same thoughts could be expressed without the swearing.

Equally, I don't know if I want to read a post that has all the swearing "bleeped" out.

So. I'm going to vote for self control ;)

Quote from: ukmarkh on 16:27, 14 April 10
I went over with a friend the last time I was there, some of his friends are German, great folk.
Anyway, I cracked a joke around the dinner table that included a few swear words, everyone laffed, but seemed shocked at the profanity.

That´s funny. I know that very well.
I think, a lot of Germans misunderstand cutting irony or black humor.
Especially if the used words sounds like a hard kick in the teeth.

This is turning into a nice sociological discussion...

@arnoldemu: I know what you mean, I passed a phase where I would swear more and more until I realised and tried deliberately to cut it down. But I don't think we'll ever see a post full of dirty words, aside from the occasional 'fuck' or 'shite' or stuff like that... you know, as part of a normal, relaxed discussion. If we see one, then I think we have the other means I mentioned to fight it.

No censoring please, and I think you all should listen to Kevin Bl***y Wilson to see how the Aussies do it :o

11-1.... to be fair, the answers are a bit rigged because there are two against, one for, which ostensibly puts some bias into the equation. So I'm adding a fourth option - you're free to change your votes.

To quote the ever wise Stephen Fry: "Swearing is a really important part of one's life and it would be impossible to imagine going through life without swearing and without enoying swearing

There used to be mad, silly, prissy people who would say swearing is a sign of a poor vocabulary as such; utter nonsense! The people I know who swear the most tend to have the widest vocabularies!"

If it's good enough for Fry it's good enough for me!

@ritchardo: one of the reasons I tremendously enjoyed Deadwood. The variety and imaginative degree of the swearing and insults in that serial was just awesome. Fantastic series, such a shame it was discontinued... :(

Quote from: Ritchardo on 09:07, 15 April 10
To quote the ever wise Stephen Fry: "Swearing is a really important part of one's life and it would be impossible to imagine going through life without swearing and without enoying swearing

There used to be mad, silly, prissy people who would say swearing is a sign of a poor vocabulary as such; utter nonsense! The people I know who swear the most tend to have the widest vocabularies!"

If it's good enough for Fry it's good enough for me!

f**k Yeah!

Now you're just being immature :p

You guys suck.
Damned arselickers!    8)


XXX-Rated

Dictionaries don't ever have the plural forms of lemmas.

But now you're just cursing, and it's not polite.

Quote from: ukmarkh on 16:27, 14 April 10
In Germany though, and i've been there many times. The people seem to think completely different about things to the rest of europe, especially British people. I'm not sure why, and can't really put my finger on it, but just different... I suppose better maybe, If the truth be known. I went over with a friend the last time I was there, some of his friends are German, great folk. Anyway, I cracked a joke around the dinner table that included a few swear words, everyone laffed, but seemed shocked at the profanity.

I also felt safer somehow, and the people are really friendly. It reminds me of southern Ireland; clean, friendly and full of life.

Must be a different germany than I live in?  ;) Where in germany have you been? Different parts of germany have a wildly different culture, different dialects and different ways of expressing themselves. Rest assured that in Berlin people do swear a lot. Just ask a local bus driver a "stupid question" and you will find out the hard way.  8)   We even have german gansta rappers whose language is common youth culture over here. And some years ago the VJs on german music television VIVA where proud to play all the videos that where censored by MTV like "Smack my bitch up" from the Prodigy (brilliant video btw.) (The station was bought by MTV later on, but nowadays theres youtube, so who cares about music television any more)

I bet you did'nt know that "lick my ass" is a quote from a play by Goethe.  :police:

Also I am not sure in which respect we differ more from the brits than other european nations. And especially why we are like the irish who are really more english in culture than any other nation, altough they won't admid it and instead call their english breakfast irish breakfast for example.  ;)

Sorry for the long sentences which are in fact a german speciality that does not translate well.  ;)

[edit: Watch out for the simlyes. I could'nt resits to answer. I find the original posting amusing, but not offensive in any way]

Quote from: Gryzor on 09:40, 15 April 10
one of the reasons I tremendously enjoyed Deadwood. The variety and imaginative degree of the swearing and insults in that serial was just awesome. Fantastic series, such a shame it was discontinued... :(

That's because although it was an awesome show, Season 3 was f**king sh*t.

Sorry, couldn't resist  ;)

Visited a place called Baden Baden the last time I was there. I think maybe the peeps there are a bit on the serious side, very polite although sometimes a   little abrupt. Oh and everyone can drive in Baden Baden, unlike where I live. I suppose its just different cultures, and I guess I'm saying I really like German people. So no harm done. 

Quote from: nurgle on 18:20, 15 April 10
Must be a different germany than I live in?  ;) Where in germany have you been? Different parts of germany have a wildly different culture, different dialects and different ways of expressing themselves. Rest assured that in Berlin people do swear a lot. Just ask a local bus driver a "stupid question" and you will find out the hard way.  8)   We even have german gansta rappers whose language is common youth culture over here. And some years ago the VJs on german music television VIVA where proud to play all the videos that where censored by MTV like "Smack my bitch up" from the Prodigy (brilliant video btw.) (The station was bought by MTV later on, but nowadays theres youtube, so who cares about music television any more)

Quote from: ukmarkh on 22:21, 15 April 10
Visited a place called Baden Baden the last time I was there. I think maybe the peeps there are a bit on the serious side, very polite although sometimes a   little abrupt. Oh and everyone can drive in Baden Baden, unlike where I live. I suppose its just different cultures, and I guess I'm saying I really like German people. So no harm done.

Oh, thats wayyy south near the french border. Quite different from Berlin for sure, although people from this region keep pouring in here in our capital.  ;) Try visiting Hamburg or Berlin for a contrast. It's not better or worse, just different.

I have family in Nordrhein-Westfalen and yes, it sounds quite different from the people of the south, not to mention the swiss or the austrians.

I just removed all censored words.
But please remember: We all should keep our culture alive!

Quote from: Devilmarkus on 13:07, 16 April 10
I just removed all censored words.
But please remember: We all should keep our culture alive!

Eh?  From where I'm sitting, "Societies can be self-regulated, and this kind of censoring is hypocritical anyway, so no." got 73.3% of the vote...

Quote from: redbox on 12:41, 19 April 10
Eh?  From where I'm sitting, "Societies can be self-regulated, and this kind of censoring is hypocritical anyway, so no." got 73.3% of the vote...

...which is a vote against censoring indeed.

I must admit ive always had the pleasure of a usually mature and informative read in this forum. The 464 is 25 years old now and it kinda says it all too. Even tho a single teen may have entered the forum, then the majority of us has passed the 30 years of age and so having naturelly matured.

Back in the day i cant recall much swearing except the S and F words. But what could you do when every american action movie/series from the time you would find the hero screaming those 2 words again and again while shooting some bad guys. No wonder those words is used by everyone today in common langauge (and has lost all meaning).

Also we are no longer the children at elementary school fighting childishly to prove that one 8 bit machine is better than another. So calling the c64 as breadbin64 or similar today, is just silly banter, that may raise a mild chuckle at most.

Sure we all curse and some more than others. Actually a bit impressive that we dont curse more. Especially if you think of the groups of people together (Programmers, gfx-artists, sound composers, ex-crackers, players) .. you would think all hell would break loose.

Being an english/german forum, but having a group of multi language people post can easily go wrong if people dont have a open eye for translation and dont take anything too seriously.

Only once have i noticed a thread that had strong emotions and i wish i had noticed earlier, so i could have insisted that the thread be locked and deleted (or moved). Other forums usually has a policy against talking about politics and similar "strong emotion" topics. Anger just brings more anger, and everyone ends up being hurt.

Ive tried sending a harmless work-related email to a collegue once and she didnt speak to me for a week, and i still dont know how i offended her. My point here is to always look positivly at what other people write. Humor, sarcasm and similar is really hard to interprit from a written text so dont "over-interprit" a raw text and if you are confused then always ask the source what is going on, before jumping to conclusions.

Anyways, i think everyone has been really nice and "harmless" at cursing in here (if you want REAL cursing then you should hear the kids in school today).

Quote from: Cholo on 15:05, 19 April 10
Also we are no longer the children at elementary school fighting childishly to prove that one 8 bit machine is better than another.
So calling the C64 as breadbin64 or similar today, is just silly banter, that may raise a mild chuckle at most.

QuoteAlso we are no longer the children at elementary school fighting   childishly to prove that one 8 bit machine is better than another.

Of course.

Now we are 30-40 years- old retarded adult Geeks  fighting   childishly to prove that one 8 bit machine is better than another. :-\

Quote from: MacDeath on 18:05, 19 April 10
Of course.

Now we are 30-40 years- old retarded adult Geeks  fighting   childishly to prove that one 8 bit machine is better than another. :-\

Almost. I found out that the CPC-Scene really is splitted into different parts.
- One side is the "Elite" - They make the BEST pixels, the AWESOMEST music and the GREATEST demos
- Other side is the "normal user" who try to make funny things, but "Elite" says "NO"

It's a kind of "impertinent" in my opinion and very sad to see.

Btw.: the "Elite" is the reason why I abandoned "Elvira"...

Quote from: Cholo on 15:05, 19 April 10
Also we are no longer the children at elementary school fighting childishly to prove that one 8 bit machine is better than another. So calling the c64 as breadbin64 or similar today, is just silly banter, that may raise a mild chuckle at most.

But that was it, and nothing more. Just a silly joke, and I really can't see why we would be discussing it :D

Quote from: Cholo on 15:05, 19 April 10
Only once have i noticed a thread that had strong emotions and i wish i had noticed earlier, so i could have insisted that the thread be locked and deleted (or moved). Other forums usually has a policy against talking about politics and similar "strong emotion" topics. Anger just brings more anger, and everyone ends up being hurt.

Can you find that thread?

In my mind, a thread has to go reeally far in order to be locked... I do believe we can work things out, since we're a rather homogeneous community.

Quotetw.: the "Elite" is the reason why I abandoned "Elvira"...

What?? Oh, for F**K's sake!


I was really expecting to play it. If I say please a huge number of times, would you consider finishing it?



10 MODE 1
20 PRINT"PLEASE, ";
30 GOTO 20


Done, copy the code, paste it in JavaCPC and run it  :laugh:

This is off topic and an interesting subject deserving a thread by itself, but I'd dare say: who cares about the 'elite', whoever that may be?

Quote from: Gryzor on 07:30, 20 April 10
Can you find that thread?

In my mind, a thread has to go reeally far in order to be locked... I do believe we can work things out, since we're a rather homogeneous community.

This one:
http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php/topic,619.0.html

Should have been locked INSTANTLY when post 3 appeared. I agree about a open community and i have a very open mind, but a post like that would mean lock and deletion in ANY other forum ive ever been to.

Note: i dont know the whole situation in that thread and so i cant and wont judge anyone, but i realise that any post in there (being good or bad) will just put more fuel on the fire. Once a thread has gone bad it cant be save .. unless deleted or locked/moved.

To begin with, I really don't care what other fora are doing, because many times (not to say "most" of the times) locks leave very bad sentiments and, also, usually reflect the admin/mod's personal opinions. So I try to abstain for that... But this is just a generality, not necessarily pertaining to the issue at hand.

Redbox used some strong language indeed. I didn't like it, nor would I express myself this way, however his post did reflect a more general status of pent-up emotions, and that's why I let it pass. Also, I gelt that the thread could lead to a conclusion, in the theatrical meaning of the word, given how long it's been in the air. And, in the end, the thread was selfregulated in the end...

So, a couple of insults were exchanged, and they did raise a chuckle or two, is it really so dramatic?

Quote from: Gryzor on 08:47, 21 April 10
So, a couple of insults were exchanged, and they did raise a chuckle or two, is it really so dramatic?

Couldn't have put it better myself.  :)

Well, I can remember a time (... Gryzor are you reading ;-)) when every single word (of mine) was put on the gold balance. And we had long discussions about "Listen to me boy..." - which is still quite nice - and other things...

So my comment here is just one: TREAT EVERYBODY EQUAL!!! And that's all that matters IMHO.

I understand your reasons for keeping the thread running and it also says a lot of how open minded the forum is.

About locking or not in general: I must admit ive made a post myself in another forum that ended up getting deleted and locked. And i totally knew why it was lock as i was way across the line. So dont be afraid of moderating posts/threads because .. sure people may get offended, but surely they know also why it happens.

Just saying again im happy with how openminded the users of the forum is.

@TFM: well, the difference is, this was a long-standing issue that affected the function and content of the forum AND the wiki. So a stop had to be put. I didn't say this is a free-range park and everyone (including myself) can do as they please... just that we are tolerant.

@cholo: The problem is that even in fora I've seen where minds were quite open, when the mods started censoring things for the correct reason it was very easy to go downhill. That's why I'm a bit wary of limitations and try to impose them only as a very, very last resort.

Who watches the Watchmen?

...the chicken or the egg?

I don't want to avoid this. This *is* an issue in online fora. Fora are not democracies - at least not in a functional, pure way. How would you implement that?

On the other hand, as I have said many times in the past, a forum belongs to its members, not to the maintainer. Without the members and their contributions, any community is doomed.

So, in the end, you end up with something like an enlightened monarchy/oligarchy that is accepted by the community's 'citizens'.  This doesn't always work. But in our case, and judging from the few problems we've encountered up to now, we don't have any serious issues...

Or am I being wrong?

I think this:
Personal attacks have nothing to do in a forum.
Insults are also in the wrong place here.
So I think, postings with personal insults or similar should be deleted and closed.
The user, who writes such postings should get a warning.
We are all old enough to have culture.
When a Malc is attacked, it's ok?
But when a Gryzor would be attacked, I think this thread would be closed instantly and the user deleted...

Of course personal attacks have everything to do in a forum. Noone is above critique... what, only collective attacks work? Racism, anyone? :D

Insults can be a different thing, but still not altogether forbidden. It comes down to how you say what you say...

Malc has been attacked time and again, and it was never a problem. Certain words could have been avoided, but I covered that in a previous post.

As for the last line... you're serious? :D

Quote from: Gryzor on 10:30, 23 April 10
As for the last line... you're serious? :D

Ban him!!!!! ;)

Before you go banning all the bad words, I'd just like to get this off my chest....

F@*K!!, S?!T!!, A%&E!!, B@!!* !!!!

Ok, I feel a lot better now.

Bryce.

The only person who's ever managed to get banned from "Groups.Tourettes.Syndrom.Forum"

Quote from: Bryce on 13:19, 23 April 10
Before you go banning all the bad words, I'd just like to get this off my chest....

F@*K!!, S?!T!!, A%&E!!, B@!!* !!!!

Ok, I feel a lot better now.

Bryce.

The only person who's ever managed to get banned from "Groups.Tourettes.Syndrom.Forum"

Tourette is FU**ING cool A**HOLE

Quote from: Bryce on 13:19, 23 April 10
The only person who's ever managed to get banned from "Groups.Tourettes.Syndrom.Forum"

But you censored yourself?

I think really in a tourettes forum I want to read these words without censorship.

That's the self-discipline !

Well, it's a funny thing to talk about this topic now. Because the forum is running quite relaxed and everybody has a lot of fun. Maybe the composition of the people just works (very diplomatic, hehe). But this may also be a golden key, if we have a kind of agreement or let's say a region where we all can live with, then I see a very positive future here.


And now I want to get banned and what ever I do, it fails!!! ;-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))


EDIT: No future without FutureOS for me :-)

I guess a relaxed period is the best to discuss 'touchy' issues, no? And it's an interesting topic, too...

Quote from: Gryzor on 17:36, 23 April 10
I guess a relaxed period is the best to discuss 'touchy' issues, no? And it's an interesting topic, too...

Well Sir, I agree!

Now let's talk about some common mistakes... people sometimes feel offendet by some words... but the truth is out there. Here some small pieces I've already discoverd...

FUCK - Friendly Users Celestrial Knowledge
AMSDOS - Alien Masters System DOwnloading Screens
IMHO - In My Horrible Oppinion
BITCH - Better I Teach Chaos Here
ASSHOLE - ASsembler Shrinks wHOle fiLE ;-)

TFM - This Fucking Madman!    Uuups, that _IS_ insultung! Don't use that abbreviation!