Hi, I've noticed two cpcwiki bugs. I am using Opera as browser (don't think that it's browser related though).
First, in cpcwiki (not in the forum), GIF files are displayed as they should, see here: http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Image_Bug. Aside from the anti-compuserve theory, there's no reason why GIFs couldn't be resampled in same quality as PNGs. Is there a way to fix that? Or to forward bug-reports to somebody?
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Second, in the cpcwiki forum, attached files are working strange. For example, on http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php/topic,678.60.html, the top-most two attached pictures (spanish 6128 and 6128+ keyboards):
If I click on the thumbnail:
Gets me an oversized 1-megabyte PNG file with (incorrect) JPG extension.
If I click on the text link saying Filename.jpg (200 kB, nnn x nnn)
Gets me an oversized 1-megabyte PNG file with (incorrect) PDF extension.
Judging from the text link, correct should be a JPG with around 200 kilobytes? But cpcwiki automatically converts it to PNG format, and destroys the extension, why? Am I doing something wrong? Does that happen for other people, too?
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The third image on the above forum page (spanish system cartridge pcb) does have the PDF extension problem, too. But it arrives as real JPG, without the JPG-to-PNG conversion.
I remember having the same problem with TXT file attachments in cpcwiki forum, too. (Being renamed to PDF) (but the TXT files being fortunately not coverted to PNG).
We know about these problems.
It's called the no$wiki bug ;)
No, really, resizing GIF files is done by wiki internal rendering engine.
So use PNG instead.
I have no problems with the attached images. All images show me extension ".jpg"
resizing:
Maybe wiki uses a bad image scaler code:
See this:
http://www.4p8.com/eric.brasseur/gamma.html
Other tools also fail. I have irfanview and it fails one of these tests producing really bad pictures.
WHAT?! BUGS IN OUR BELOVED SITE? HOW DARE YOU!
...but you're right to mention them here. Btw, I use Opera too, as do some of our other users, and I find it works superbly...
About the forum images: weird, I can confirm the issue with png vs jpg, with a couple of differences:
-If I click on the thumb it gives me a PNG, which maybe it shouldn't, but with a PNG extension, not JPG. But I'm using FF here at work, maybe it's got something to do with that? Gerald, if you're reading this, can you tell us what kind of images you uploaded?
-Also, I get no PDFs, only the JPGs. Again, maybe it's just Opera? Will have to try it at home, or if you could confirm it with FF yourself it'd be great...
As for the GIF rendering problem, it's a long-standing one, but I never thought anyone minded. I have a couple of ideas but I need to look into it... thanks for the great example page :)
Cheers
T
PS Ah, others got there first. Markus is right about rendering, and relating to Arnoldemu's comment (ha! I had noticed this when image-editing myself, but never quite got it! Thanks for the great article!) I need to see if we could switch renderers...
I've uploaded pictures on occasions (GIFs mainly) that just didn't want to display at all, I had to resample them as jpg/png AND resize them before they would display, although they were definitely not too big or anything unusual. I never found out exactly which part of the file the wiki didn't like, but they're probably still in the database, cos' I've no idea how to delete a picture once it's uploaded.
Bryce.
> So use PNG instead.
Hmmmm, that matches my anti-compuserve idea. The company had a bit of a bad reputation when they planned to charge fees for using the gif format. (NB are they still doing that?) Aside from that, I like GIFs more than PNGs. And with current technology, it should be still possible to resample a GIF.
> http://www.4p8.com/eric.brasseur/gamma.html
Funny effect! Though that happens on special striped and dithered images.
> Maybe wiki uses a bad image scaler code
Yup, a very bad one, it can't even resample the solid black question mark :-)
Quote from: nocash on 12:02, 21 April 10
Hmmmm, that matches my anti-compuserve idea. The company had a bit of a bad reputation when they planned to charge fees for using the gif format. (NB are they still doing that?) Aside from that, I like GIFs more than PNGs. And with current technology, it should be still possible to resample a GIF.
Well.... PNG = CompuServe Portable Network Graphic :police:
Quote from: Devilmarkus on 12:17, 21 April 10
Well.... PNG = CompuServe Portable Network Graphic :police:
Hahaha! Pwned! :D
Quote from: nocash on 12:02, 21 April 10
> So use PNG instead.
Hmmmm, that matches my anti-compuserve idea. The company had a bit of a bad reputation when they planned to charge fees for using the gif format. (NB are they still doing that?) Aside from that, I like GIFs more than PNGs. And with current technology, it should be still possible to resample a GIF.
Well I prefer PNG. PNG because it is lossless and is mostly a web standard.
Then JPG after but then we know that is lossy.
Well you say it should still be possible to resample GIF. Well yes, but we see it is not ;)
I think it all depends on how the code was implemented.
The wiki may use a PHP library, but does that then use a system function or not???
I never had any problem but then I uploaded most pictures as JPG.
Quote from: nocash on 12:02, 21 April 10
> http://www.4p8.com/eric.brasseur/gamma.html (http://www.4p8.com/eric.brasseur/gamma.html)
Funny effect! Though that happens on special striped and dithered images.
No, it can effect *all* images
Sometimes it is not so obvious.. and the picture appears less bright.
Quote from: nocash on 12:02, 21 April 10
> Maybe wiki uses a bad image scaler code
Yup, a very bad one, it can't even resample the solid black question mark :-)
Yes, it is bad.
Quote from: Bryce on 11:54, 21 April 10
I've uploaded pictures on occasions (GIFs mainly) that just didn't want to display at all, I had to resample them as jpg/png AND resize them before they would display, although they were definitely not too big or anything unusual. I never found out exactly which part of the file the wiki didn't like, but they're probably still in the database, cos' I've no idea how to delete a picture once it's uploaded.
Bryce.
Same here I want to delete one, and you can't do it.
I uploaded an inferior picture of the gx4000 (not as nice as the one already there).. and now I can't delete it.
Gryzor please can we have choice to delete a picture if *we* uploaded?
thanks.
Hey are all my other mistakes and actions recorded in the wiki too? OMG I've gotta hide. :P
I really think, GIF is very outdated.
Since there exist animated PNG, too, with 24 bit, I don't see a reason to use GIF.
(http://cpc-live.com/animated.png)
Sorry, IE users, not your lucky day!
Also dont work in Safari... I think Opera cant show it, too...
But Firefox plays this animation well!
I vote for PNG too. Here at work, where I work with creative material all the time (presentation, creative agencies etc) I always use PNG because it's lossless, it allows transparency and has decent sizes. No real reason to use GIF any more!
...and I didn't know they finally did the animation feature!!!
As for deleting images: there's no "delete" function in mediawiki, since the db works in incremental ways. So even if you take the action of 'deletion' you can always revert it. The end result is that the image won't appear, say, in the list of images, but it'll still be there in the db and on the server and it can be brought back to light. You can, of course, delete the file manually through ftp and then edit the db but I won't even bother :D
Which images do you want deleted?
I'm in for PNG too for bitmaps, and I'd vote for SVG for vector graphics.
I think the SVG filter also does not render all svg files accurately. Try this link (http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:Arnor_Old_Logo_std.svg) and this other one (http://cpcwiki.eu/imgs/d/db/Arnor_Old_Logo_std.svg).
I took my time to create a nice vector of Arnor's logos, you know... 8)
These SVGs look absolutely ok to me???
Quote from: robcfg on 12:59, 21 April 10
I'm in for PNG too for bitmaps, and I'd vote for SVG for vector graphics.
I think the SVG filter also does not render all svg files accurately. Try this link (http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:Arnor_Old_Logo_std.svg) and this other one (http://cpcwiki.eu/imgs/d/db/Arnor_Old_Logo_std.svg).
I took my time to create a nice vector of Arnor's logos, you know... 8)
Nice logos.
But not everybody knows how to create SVG files... ;)
From wikipedia:
"The US LZW patent expired on June 20, 2003.[19] The counterpart patents in the United Kingdom, France, Germany and Italy expired on June 18, 2004, the Japanese counterpart patents expired on June 20, 2004 and the counterpart Canadian patent expired on July 7, 2004.[19] Consequently, while Unisys has further patents and patent applications relating to improvements to the LZW technique,[19] the GIF format may now be used freely."
So far, I can't see any political/financial reason why not supporting GIFs here.
GIF advantages are they are REAL web standard, lossless, sometimes smaller than PNGs (sometimes not), and finally, lots of files are in GIF format - so it'd be uncomfortable to convert them before uploading (not to mention to convert files that are ALREADY uploaded on cpcwiki). No matter who prefers which format - both PNG and GIF should be supported.
PS. updated the http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Image_Bug page, adding options for different skins, revealing a bizarre transparency effect - the image resampler is real crap :-)
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On the forum attachment bug. I also tried it with my slowest browser: firefox. It doesn't do the PDF bug, instead, both thumb & text link are giving me PNG files with incorrect JPG extension.
Both Opera & Firefox don't complain about the faulty extension. You only notice it by:
Takes forever to download (due to lower/lossless compression rate).
Saving the image and then loading it with iview gives "wrong extension" warning).
The two links produce different results both on Chrome on Win XP and Safari on MacOS X Snow Leopard.
Take a look at this:
(http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/7348/arnorbug.jpg)
Hi Gyzor,
take a look at the files here: http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:CPC_Disc_Cassette_Schematic.gif (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:CPC_Disc_Cassette_Schematic.gif)
The last picture I uploaded worked, but the two before it (as you can see, have a problem generating a Thumbnail. If you click on the picture it's perfectly visible, but if you add it to a Wiki page, the page fails to render.
In this case, they are all GIFs, so the file can stay there as the old version, but sometimes I decided to convert to JPG to solve the problem, so the old file had a different name and is "Lost in Space" somewhere. I'm sure you have a way of checking files in the database that aren't used in any wiki page. If so, you'll find these files there.
Bryce.
Quote from: robcfg on 13:32, 21 April 10
The two links produce different results both on Chrome on Win XP and Safari on MacOS X Snow Leopard.
The answer is easy:
(as shown in file's history:)
Error creating thumbnail: convert: unable to read font `/usr/share/fonts/type1/gsfonts/n019004l.pfb'.
You see: SVG needs all resources. It will be lot of work to make it complete.
Quote from: Bryce on 13:33, 21 April 10
Hi Gyzor,
take a look at the files here: http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:CPC_Disc_Cassette_Schematic.gif (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:CPC_Disc_Cassette_Schematic.gif)
The last picture I uploaded worked, but the two before it (as you can see, have a problem generating a Thumbnail. If you click on the picture it's perfectly visible, but if you add it to a Wiki page, the page fails to render.
In this case, they are all GIFs, so the file can stay there as the old version, but sometimes I decided to convert to JPG to solve the problem, so the old file had a different name and is "Lost in Space" somewhere. I'm sure you have a way of checking files in the database that aren't used in any wiki page. If so, you'll find these files there.
Bryce.
http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:CPC_Disc_Cassette_Schematic.png works fine for me.
Also the PNG file is smaller in filesize than your GIF ;)
Quote from: Devilmarkus on 13:35, 21 April 10
The answer is easy:
(as shown in file's history:)
Error creating thumbnail: convert: unable to read font `/usr/share/fonts/type1/gsfonts/n019004l.pfb'.
You see: SVG needs all resources. It will be lot of work to make it complete.
Yep, that was before I converted the font to paths. The thing here is that the svg filter renders the same file in two different fashions.
@Markus, Yup saw that, but what was wrong with the first PNG, why does it result in an error?
Bryce.
@ Bryce:
Please email me your original PNG you used first.
You can download it here: http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:CPC_Disc_Cassette_Schematic.png
I deleted the original from my database.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 13:46, 21 April 10
You can download it here: http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:CPC_Disc_Cassette_Schematic.png (http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:CPC_Disc_Cassette_Schematic.png)
I deleted the original from my database.
Bryce.
Yes thats the one I uploaded ;)
I stored your GIF, opened it and saved as PNG, then uploaded it and updated yours.
And right below yours is the original PNG (19. Feb.) With the Error message beside it and it's a different size too.
Didn't think I'd have to tell you how to use the wiki ;)
http://cpcwiki.eu/imgs/archive/3/36/20100421123845 (http://cpcwiki.eu/imgs/archive/3/36/20100421123845)!CPC_Disc_Cassette_Schematic.png
Bryce.
Hmmm thats funny
perhaps it was too large?
Anyway, I think the one I uploaded is ok ;)
That's what I thought too, but I re-sized it (cropped and rescaled), but it just wasn't having any of it and still caused an error. I decided it must have been either an error in the file or header, that was staying despite the cropping/scaling, so I converted it to a different format to try to remove whatever it was, which worked.
Bryce.
I often have problems with BMP files.
When I save BMP with different photo softwares, I can't use them as resource files in .exe applications.
Then I simply load the BMP into Windows Paint, store it again and then everything is fine.
Curious phenomen ;)
That depends on what you're using to build the exe with, some SDKs are particular about the Bit depth of the BMP, if it's an older SDK, it may only accept 16/24bit.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 14:12, 21 April 10
That depends on what you're using to build the exe with, some SDKs are particular about the Bit depth of the BMP, if it's an older SDK, it may only accept 16/24bit.
Bryce.
Im using resource-hacker :angel:
No idea what that accepts, any PC stuff I do is either Visual Studio (2005), QT or TCL/TK. For PIC assembly I use MPLab, but there's not a lot of use for pictures in the PICs I use :D
Bryce.
Back to GIF bug. Judging from the link at the bottom of the cpcwiki main page, what we are using here is, http://www.mediawiki.org/ this? So bug reports should go there? In that case, where can one see which version we are using? Newest version listed on mediawiki would be "1.15.3 – 2010-04-07".
And the forum bug, at http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php/topic,678.60.html there are 7 new files (at the bottom of the page). The text links say JPGs with 340K/file. But when downloading them I get PNGs 2000K/file (!) Markus, what did you upload there, JPGs or PNGs?
I uploaded JPGs and I get JPGs
Hmmm nocash is right here.
I also get 2,3mb PNG files when I download them!??
But the file extension remains ".JPG"
Gryzoooooor! Could you ask in SMF forums?
Whew, that was fast. Took only 4 hours until somebody managed to reproduce the bug ;-)
Quote from: nocash on 16:05, 21 April 10
Whew, that was fast. Took only 4 hours until somebody managed to reproduce the bug ;-)
Others need YEARS to update existing things like emus, programs, apps etc ;)
So we are lightyears faster ;)
Didn't say it was slow. You mean it's already fixed & updated? That'd be really fast.
Quote from: nocash on 17:48, 21 April 10
Didn't say it was slow. You mean it's already fixed & updated? That'd be really fast.
No ;) (Did I wrote we fixed that?) :D
But you were right here...
Perhaps Gryzor can get help on SMF forum to fix this bug...
I'm working on it guys :D
Btw, you can see the mediawiki's software version in Special Pages -> Version.
Ok guys, it seems this is a bug pertaining to the current forum software version. It seems that maybe, just maybe, a security sub-system that protects us from code injections etc may be causing this, so if I find the time tonight I'll try tweaking it* and see what it happens.
*which means, if you try to visit here and all you see is a blank page you'll know someone will be sitting in his desk somewhere in Athens with a puzzled look on his face and a PHP guide open next to the keyboard... :D
Here's a new bug, see the "What Links Here Bug" section, on http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Image_Bug
Btw. what happened with the other 2 bugs?
The forum PNG bug was reported to the authors of the forum software, wasn't it?
Last time I checked, the bug seemed to be still there, so tweaking it didn't seem to help.
And the wiki GIF bug (seen on http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Image_Bug, too). Was it ever reported to wikimedia?
-The What Links Here is a system bug, will see if there's more info on it. However I don't think it's as serious -it would be serious if we did lots of housekeeping, which we don't :D And, anyway, I don't think anyone would delete pics even if he thought they didn't appear anywhere...
-The forum bug has been recognised as such and we're waiting for the next forum release. As such it's not much worth it screwing with the system right now...
-The GIF is something I need to get back into, I didn't have the time to....
> The What Links Here is a system bug... it would be serious
> if we did lots of housekeeping, which we don't :D
Yup, in practice it's not so often a problem. And deleting wasn't a good example since most users can't do that anyways.
What I have done a few times is uploading a new version of a jpg (not that I'd recommend doing such things, except in some special situations). Anyways, when doing that, I've double-checked that my "improvement" doesn't conflict with other articles that use the same file - that's when the "What Links Here" list can be important.
> The forum bug has been recognised as such and
> we're waiting for the next forum release.
Great!
> The GIF is something I need to get back into,
Would be fine!
Just checked if the same problem occurs on wikipedia, too.
It doesn't! wikipedia shows GIFs all fine! So it must be a local problem.
See the new example at the bottom of the http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Image_Bug page.