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General Category => CPCWiki Discussion => Topic started by: Fran123 on 16:46, 07 October 24

Title: French roms
Post by: Fran123 on 16:46, 07 October 24
Hello

I downloaded the french roms but the qwerty version doesn't work, it prints azerty when you push "qwerty".

Are they wrong?  Do those files exist?

Thank you
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: roudoudou on 17:15, 07 October 24
French rom is azerty. Everything is ok
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: Gryzor on 17:24, 07 October 24
That's... What they're supposed to do 😁
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: poulette73 on 18:41, 07 October 24
Of course  ;D
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: BSC on 19:52, 07 October 24
Quote from: Fran123 on 16:46, 07 October 24Are they wrong?
Yes, they are, nobody in his right mind would arrange keys like this  ;)
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: robcfg on 20:00, 07 October 24
Well, Germans have QWERTZ keyboards...  ;D
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: Fran123 on 20:17, 07 October 24
I asked because in this link  https://www.cpcwiki.eu/imgs/a/af/French_6128_ROMs.zip (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/imgs/a/af/French_6128_ROMs.zip)  they are roms for QWERTY and AZERTY.
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: Nich on 20:19, 07 October 24
Quote from: BSC on 19:52, 07 October 24Yes, they are, nobody in his right mind would arrange keys like this  ;)
I can never get used to having to use the Shift key to type numbers on the top row of an AZERTY keyboard - even though the numeric keypad exists. Typing in listings or code feels particularly awkward!
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: Prodatron on 21:06, 07 October 24
Quote from: Fran123 on 20:17, 07 October 24I asked because in this link  https://www.cpcwiki.eu/imgs/a/af/French_6128_ROMs.zip (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/imgs/a/af/French_6128_ROMs.zip)  they are roms for QWERTY and AZERTY.

You could modify them.

The 464 rom has the translation tables starting at #1d69
The 664/6128 rom at #1eef.
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: Gryzor on 05:37, 08 October 24
Quote from: Fran123 on 20:17, 07 October 24I asked because in this link  https://www.cpcwiki.eu/imgs/a/af/French_6128_ROMs.zip (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/imgs/a/af/French_6128_ROMs.zip)  they are roms for QWERTY and AZERTY.

This is something I didn't remember. 

What's the point in them? Anyone?
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: poulette73 on 07:30, 08 October 24
Quote from: Nich on 20:19, 07 October 24I can never get used to having to use the Shift key to type numbers on the top row of an AZERTY keyboard - even though the numeric keypad exists. Typing in listings or code feels particularly awkward!

This is just a geographical point of view.  ;)

I could say exactly the same thing about QWERTY keyboards, where I find access to symbols much more complicated to type because it requires the use of the SHIFT key, and where I consider typing listings easier.

I am 51 years old and I have always lived with the AZERTY standard ! On old typewriters, then the first IBM PC computers, all 8-bit computers, then 16-bit computers like Atari and Amiga, and others...

And today both in personal life or in the professional world.

It is just a habit anchored in each of us every day, like the language we speak, or the currency we use.  8)
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: Gryzor on 07:39, 08 October 24
You're all wrong, Dvorak is the way to go.
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: poulette73 on 07:40, 08 October 24
Quote from: Gryzor on 05:37, 08 October 24
Quote from: Fran123 on 20:17, 07 October 24I asked because in this link  https://www.cpcwiki.eu/imgs/a/af/French_6128_ROMs.zip (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/imgs/a/af/French_6128_ROMs.zip)  they are roms for QWERTY and AZERTY.

This is something I didn't remember.

@Fran123 : The explanation is a shortage of Amstrad CPC stocks for the French market... The very first Amstrad CPCs were sold in France in QWERTY version, but with the FR rom.
It was only in 1986 that Amstrad was able to deliver AZERTY computers in France.  :)
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: Gryzor on 07:47, 08 October 24
Quote from: poulette73 on 07:40, 08 October 24
Quote from: Gryzor on 05:37, 08 October 24
Quote from: Fran123 on 20:17, 07 October 24I asked because in this link  https://www.cpcwiki.eu/imgs/a/af/French_6128_ROMs.zip (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/imgs/a/af/French_6128_ROMs.zip)  they are roms for QWERTY and AZERTY.

This is something I didn't remember.

@Fran123 : The explanation is a shortage of Amstrad CPC stocks for the French market... The very first Amstrad CPCs were sold in France in QWERTY version, but with the FR rom.
It was only in 1986 that Amstrad was able to deliver AZERTY computers in France.  :)

Ahhh ok, learn something new every day...
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: eto on 08:41, 08 October 24
Quote from: robcfg on 20:00, 07 October 24Well, Germans have QWERTZ keyboards...  ;D
Generally yes. But not on the CPC: The German CPCs were almost identical UK models with UK keyboard layout and UK ROM. No umlauts for us  :(
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: McArti0 on 10:15, 08 October 24
Quote from: eto on 08:41, 08 October 24No umlauts for us  :(
And wasn't there a fashion in Germany for additional replacement ROMs?
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: eto on 10:31, 08 October 24
Quote from: McArti0 on 10:15, 08 October 24And wasn't there a fashion in Germany for additional replacement ROMs?
I don't know - I never cared about it. As most home computers had the US or UK layout anyway, that was not too different. 
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: Bryce on 13:07, 08 October 24
Quote from: Gryzor on 05:37, 08 October 24
Quote from: Fran123 on 20:17, 07 October 24I asked because in this link  https://www.cpcwiki.eu/imgs/a/af/French_6128_ROMs.zip (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/imgs/a/af/French_6128_ROMs.zip)  they are roms for QWERTY and AZERTY.

This is something I didn't remember.

What's the point in them? Anyone?

The French QWERTY ROM was probably required because the CPC was more popular than expected and they ran out of AWERTY Keyboards for the French market. I remember someone telling me that their original French CPC came with a QWERTY keyboard.

Bryce.
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: Bryce on 13:14, 08 October 24
Quote from: McArti0 on 10:15, 08 October 24
Quote from: eto on 08:41, 08 October 24No umlauts for us  :(
And wasn't there a fashion in Germany for additional replacement ROMs?

There was a few alternative ROMs in Germany for alternative disk drives, but I don't think there were any alternative Firmware or BASIC ROMs.

Bryce.
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: poulette73 on 13:21, 08 October 24
Quote from: Bryce on 13:07, 08 October 24The French QWERTY ROM was probably required because the CPC was more popular than expected and they ran out of AWERTY Keyboards for the French market. I remember someone telling me that their original French CPC came with a QWERTY keyboard.

Bryce.
That's what I explained few posts above :D :
https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?msg=243492

It was really at the very beginning, Amstrad had no AZERTY keyboard in stock for the first year of CPC 6128, and sold QWERTY with a FR rom 
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: Bryce on 13:30, 08 October 24
Oh, must have skipped over that.

Bryce.
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: Nich on 17:56, 08 October 24
Quote from: eto on 08:41, 08 October 24
Quote from: robcfg on 20:00, 07 October 24Well, Germans have QWERTZ keyboards...  ;D
Generally yes. But not on the CPC: The German CPCs were almost identical UK models with UK keyboard layout and UK ROM. No umlauts for us  :(
But I thought umlauts aren't essential in the German language, since you can use substitute digraphs (e.g. ü -> ue)? :P
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: Prodatron on 19:11, 08 October 24
Quote from: Nich on 17:56, 08 October 24
Quote from: eto on 08:41, 08 October 24
Quote from: robcfg on 20:00, 07 October 24Well, Germans have QWERTZ keyboards...  ;D
Generally yes. But not on the CPC: The German CPCs were almost identical UK models with UK keyboard layout and UK ROM. No umlauts for us  :(
But I thought umlauts aren't essential in the German language, since you can use substitute digraphs (e.g. ü -> ue)? :P

You are right! I wonder if other languages with these strange extra-characters have such replacements as well?
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: GUNHED on 19:24, 08 October 24
Quote from: robcfg on 20:00, 07 October 24Well, Germans have QWERTZ keyboards...  ;D
Yes, just to be able to type "Z80" more quick.  ;)
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: GUNHED on 19:31, 08 October 24
Quote from: Nich on 17:56, 08 October 24
Quote from: eto on 08:41, 08 October 24
Quote from: robcfg on 20:00, 07 October 24Well, Germans have QWERTZ keyboards...  ;D
Generally yes. But not on the CPC: The German CPCs were almost identical UK models with UK keyboard layout and UK ROM. No umlauts for us  :(
But I thought umlauts aren't essential in the German language, since you can use substitute digraphs (e.g. ü -> ue)? :P
True, this can be done. But it totally suxx! 
However, it's no problem to redefine characters (even using BASIC). 
And CP/M allows to set up language dependant character sets anyway.
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: eto on 20:56, 08 October 24
Quote from: Nich on 17:56, 08 October 24But I thought umlauts aren't essential in the German language, since you can use substitute digraphs (e.g. ü -> ue)? :P
Sure, we can survive without and especially in the 80s it was widely accepted that if you work with a home computer, that you don't have special characters. However it was somehow weird that Schneider tried to market the CPC as a semi-professional computer - but at the same time did not bother to localize it.
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: robcfg on 10:35, 09 October 24
I just remembered that I got this program: https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Deutast , but I didn't thought much about it.

Knowing that german CPCs have a QWERTY keyboard, makes sense now!
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: Gryzor on 11:25, 09 October 24
Quote from: robcfg on 10:35, 09 October 24I just remembered that I got this program: https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Deutast , but I didn't thought much about it.

Knowing that german CPCs have a QWERTY keyboard, makes sense now!
DM40? Wtf...
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: GUNHED on 12:04, 09 October 24
Well, there were several similar programs in Computer Magazines anyway. Just without the stickers.
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: Bryce on 15:59, 09 October 24
Quote from: Gryzor on 11:25, 09 October 24
Quote from: robcfg on 10:35, 09 October 24I just remembered that I got this program: https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Deutast , but I didn't thought much about it.

Knowing that german CPCs have a QWERTY keyboard, makes sense now!
DM40? Wtf...

Well just the 3in Disk cost about DM20 at the time! :D

Bryce.
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: Gryzor on 16:20, 09 October 24
Quote from: Bryce on 15:59, 09 October 24
Quote from: Gryzor on 11:25, 09 October 24
Quote from: robcfg on 10:35, 09 October 24I just remembered that I got this program: https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Deutast , but I didn't thought much about it.

Knowing that german CPCs have a QWERTY keyboard, makes sense now!
DM40? Wtf...

Well just the 3in Disk cost about DM20 at the time! :D

Bryce.

Wait, that much? I seem to recall that their price here was the equivalent of GBP1 mid-late 80s? 
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: eto on 16:45, 09 October 24
It was for professional users and they probably were happy to pay a premium - and they got stickers ;-) 

And don't forget - if you bought a "Electro Freddy" cassette in the grey/silver/boring "Schneider Computer Division" package, you already paid 30DM.

Quote from: Bryce on 15:59, 09 October 24Well just the 3in Disk cost about DM20 at the time! :D

I got my 6128 in mid 1986 and a Maxell disk cost 14DM. Panasonic cost 20DM. I remember pretty well as I could barely afford 2 Maxell disks :-D
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: Gryzor on 17:22, 09 October 24
That's weird. Back then the GBP was at its highest against the DM, almost DM3 for 1 GBP. Yet I remember paying GDR500 for blank disks, when the British pound was about 540 drachmas... 
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: GUNHED on 17:23, 09 October 24
Quote from: Bryce on 15:59, 09 October 24
Quote from: Gryzor on 11:25, 09 October 24
Quote from: robcfg on 10:35, 09 October 24I just remembered that I got this program: https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Deutast , but I didn't thought much about it.

Knowing that german CPCs have a QWERTY keyboard, makes sense now!
DM40? Wtf...

Well just the 3in Disk cost about DM20 at the time! :D

Bryce.

In 1987 I got 3" (Panasonic, the good stuff) for 5 DM already, when buying 10 pieces (49,90 DM) at media market in Munich.
Yes, discs are expansive (back then and again), but still one can see that they are a _bussiness_ company.  ;)
Title: Re: French roms
Post by: Prodatron on 21:40, 09 October 24
When I bought my first 3" disks in 1987/1988, I had no problem with the prices, even though I really had no money at this time. Filling more than two of them with self-programmed games or applications seemed completely impossible to me at the time, because 178K was such an incredible amount of memory! So I was really happy because I didn't know anyone I could swap software with :D

oh shit, now it's getting even more off-topic :D
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