Hello,
I've had a wee idea that may or may not be a good one - it's hard for me to tell anymore!
The wiki is such a massive project (and one that is continuing to grow) that it can prove a little daunting to know where to begin and sometimes I've found myself wondering what to look up.
Is it possible to have a link that will navigate you to a random page each time that you click it - this may allow you to learn or read up on a subject that you would never normally look up and from there you could find yourself browsing further and further into the knowledge base to find out more (if its a subject that piques your interest). Alternatively, you may arrive at the page and realise that you know something else that's been missing from the entry and can fix it.
Is it a) possible and b) desireable?
Hello Ritchardo,
It's actually pretty amazing that we have grown to be such a massive project that's daunting to navigate! It never ceases to amaze me...
Actually your idea is pretty good, both desireable and possible: try visiting http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Special:Random :)
Now, if we find a decent place for it on the main page it'll be all set...
I think to the right of the search field and the "Go" and "Search" buttons would be ideal.
Quote from: robcfg on 10:40, 10 May 10
I think to the right of the search field and the "Go" and "Search" buttons would be ideal.
...you kind of picked the most difficult place for it :D Plus, you want such feature to be a bit in-your-face, not like the Search button which is essential, but not like that...
I did place the link, btw.
I also placed the "Random" link under "Search" into the sidebar ;)
The sidebar is not what Robcfg said :) Plus, it's titled wrong ("Search") and it populates the sidebar with a duplicate entry... :p
1) I did not title it ;)
2) I find it boring to return first to index page and then open a random page ;)
3) I want more girls in wiki!!!
Well it is not bad in the sidebar.
Just going through some random pages, why do we have a page on "Günter Freiherr von Gravenreuth"? ???
Now, after the changes to the side bar, the "Search" function disappears at the bottom of the screen :-/ can't it be moved a bit higher, so one can access it without scrolling?
Another thing that would be nice at higher location would be the link to the forum.
Perfecto! ;D
Thanks guys!
@Robcfg: Who *is* Guenther? Again the umlaut problem strikes... we may never know! :D
@nocash: what search function disappears? the Search box is at the top! But, in any case, the Sidebar was already way too long, I really don't feel like shoving more stuff in there... Also, moving the forum up would break the organisation of the sidebar. In any case, I'm planning to make the forum more visible in the first place...
Is there any problem with umlauts in posts? I can see it right, though the page in the wiki contains umlaut errors.
Really? Can you post the link???
> @nocash: what search function disappears?
Yes, the "search box", with "go" and "search" buttons. I am using the "monobook" style, see here for example: http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php?title=Main_Page&useskin=monobook until yesterday it did have "search" close to top of window.
> moving the forum up would break the organisation of the sidebar.
Then the organisation is crap :-) most often used features should be top-most. Of course the most-often-used part may differ from user to user (and same for the saying-crap-part). If you want to have the Forum in the "Wiki-related" section, can't you move it a bit higher inside of that section? (Above "special pages" or so).
EDIT: PS. The umlaut pages show up in the search engine, http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=freiherr&go=Go but as far is I know one cannot access the actual pages.
-As with the forum, same with the wiki itself, we cannot cater for all the skins. You use third skins (outside the default, that is) at your own peril... Unfortunately some changes require hard-wired changes to the skin's code, hence it's not possible to make them in all skins.
-You answered this one yourself - most frequent features are different for different users. As for moving the wiki-related section higher, that was a conscious decision: I didn't want it to become introverted. A user comes in, he looks for data and knowledge. Wiki-related stuff is not as essential. As I said, I'll promote the forum by replacing the main photo of the main page with a forum-related one, but changing the entire structure goes a bit too far...
-Yeah, the umlaut behavior is something we're aware of... it seemed to me Robcfg was actually able to visit the page??
> some changes require hard-wired changes to the skin's code
Okay. Then I'll have to live with it :-( anyways, I'll stay with the monobook skin - looks less fancy (to me), and it gives more workspace (to everybody).
> As for moving the wiki-related section higher
No, I didn't say that! When talking about the wiki-related section, I meant rearranging the items INSIDE of that section, not moving the whole section.
My suggestions would be: Put the forum on top of the "wiki-related" section. Or, put it on bottom of the "contents" section. Does anybody else think that this could be useful?
> it seemed to me Robcfg was actually able to visit the page??
I'd guess not... Or did you see the whole page, robcfg?
I think I got a bit lost, so let's check the facts.
- As for the forum posts, there is no problem using umlauts (I type Günther and hope you see it right :D ).
- The page on Günther Freiherr von... does not exists, but if you search for "freiherr" it appears under "Page Title Matches", in blue color.
- If you follow the link of the search page you go to http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/G%3F%3FÂ%3Fnter_Freiherr_von_Gravenreuth (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/G%3F%3F%C3%82%3Fnter_Freiherr_von_Gravenreuth), where you can edit the page.
The thing is, why does it appear in the search results if it doesn't exist?
Well I deleted the page now.
So it still shows when you follow your link but I hope it will disappear in random sites now....
@Rob: there is another thread on this issue. When we moved servers something went a bit wrong with encoding and, even though the pages are still in the database and hence the system can list them in search results, you can't go there because special characters cannot be rendered... so it's kinda lost.
@nocash: I'm sick and tired of Monobook. You see it everywhere - on every single wiki system - and it's not even really a design. The one we use is a bit 'fancier', yes, but still very minimalistic. Plus, about size, there was another thread where people complained when it was larger, so we narrowed it a bit. Should I try making it more wide again?
> people complained when it was larger, so we narrowed it a
> bit. Should I try making it more wide again?
No need to, not for me. I'd prefer wider to support people with lowres monitors & to allow using two small windows next to each other. But if other people prefer narrow then that should be available, too. The design/colors aren't important to me, only the "wide" thing is nice to have - just as it is now monobook=wide, default=narrow.
I've had a look at the changelog, http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php?title=MediaWiki%3ASidebar&diff=45996&oldid=39631
The old version (that showed the Search function on top even with monobook), did have "*SEARCH" in there. That line somehow got lost alongside with the Random Page changes. At the moment "search" is undefined, and the different skins seem to default to place it where they like.
Can you insert the "*SEARCH" line again? Somewhere above or below the Contents section. Then it should work with all skins.
Ah yes, sorry, I took it off by mistake. Will fix.
By the way, I expanded the default theme to 100% again, you might want to check it out. I also made the font a little smaller, though I suspect people will complain :)
As far as width goes, I don't understand (again) why there should be any problem. The width is relative, not absolute, so it should warp and resize nicely in all resolutions. I checked it and it looks nice as low as 1024px, so there should be no issues...
> Ah yes, sorry, I took it off by mistake. Will fix.
Yes, please! Add the *SEARCH again!
> By the way, I expanded the default theme to 100% again
Sounds good, and looks good! I don't like internet pages that "force" people to buy bigger computers & monitors - internet should be as free as possible for everybody. Unfortunately it isn't, very few "free" pages support people with 640px or 800px monitors :-/ with 100% width it's better :-)
> As far as width goes, I don't understand (again)
> why there should be any problem.
> it should warp and resize nicely in all resolutions.
Yup, normal text wraps fine, and works even with 640px. Only problem could be that text lines could become endless long on wide screens (probably the reason why some people requested "narrow" style).
On the contrary, there are some things that don't wrap: Huge Images, Picture Galleries and program <code> without line-wrapping. Viewing such pages in 600..800px windows is a bit difficult (and the "narrow" feature did "steal" valueable 100..200 pixels).
> I also made the font a little smaller, though I suspect people will complain :)
Don't know if it's better or worse... maybe a little bit worse. The width problem applied more to the borders & images & galleries, the font size didn't matter too much. Alltogether... it might look better if you increase the font size again.
Search added again, albeit towards the bottom, since having two Search boxes at the top doesn't make much sense.
About long lines in huge resolutions - when, there's only that much you can do. I really don't know a way to change CSS and width on the fly depending on the visitor's resolution... and, of course, the elements that don't wrap - ok, really, I don't care. You can't be designing for the present AND for 1995 (I think that's when I had an 800px resolution, and I'm not even sure about it) at the same time...
> Search added again, albeit towards the bottom
Thanks. Uh, that didn't work yet.
The mixed-case "*Search" produces only an empty section.
The keyword must be upper-case "*SEARCH".
And please move it back to top - in uppercase it should work fine, without duplicating.
Ummmm... First, it worked when I tried it with Monobook. Anyway, I corrected it and it works, although for the default skin it just puts "Search" in there... will look into it.
I won't be moving it to the top, though. As I've said, extra skins are not supported, either here or in the wiki. If you insist on using another skin, then sorry but that's that...
But why don't you want to move it to back top??? Until May 10th, it was in the first line, look here:
http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php?title=MediaWiki%3ASidebar&diff=46562&oldid=42782
as far as I know that worked just fine with BOTH gumaxv and monobook, and everybody was happy with it... or not?
-For some reason putting the second Search down there (in capitals or not) doesn't work in all cases
-The fact that it was working before, at the top, does not mean it should be there. Having two search boxes one next to the other is just stupid.
> The fact that it was working before, at the top, does not mean it should be there.
Well, if it was working, why should it be NOT there?
> Having two search boxes one next to the other is just stupid.
Sure thing, but why do you think there would be two boxes?
Can't you just -please- give it a try?
Put
* SEARCH
into first line, all upper-case. If it doesn't work and you end up with two search boxes, you win a prize :-) and it should be no problem to remove it, so there's no risk to give it a try.
PS. Don't trust the preview feature (that'd be likely to get confused when changing the side bar & search entry).
*sigh*... I just did. As if I hadn't tried before. It DOESN'T WORK with the default skin. Feel free to check it out. I will revert in a couple of hours.
The default skin has ITS OWN search box at the top, rendering the sidebar one irrelevant. Is it so hard to understand?
Many many thanks for trying!!!
Yup, I know, the default skin has its own search box, outside of the side menu. That's why there should be no problem - I've checked it last month: Even with the *SEARCH keyword (at the bottom of the list), the default skin didn't show a search box in that location (only its own search box above the side bar).
So far, there was no problem. Only one small glitch: It showed "SEARCH" as section headline (without any search box underneath of it). I hoped the default skin would contain something like "IF first line = *SEARCH then ignore it" so that glitch wouldn't occur when putting the *SEARCH in first line. That'd explain why there was no problem until May. Or did that glitch do occur back then, and nobody noticed it?
> Feel free to check it out. I will revert in a couple of hours.
That was too fast :-( didn't see it. What happened and what didn't work? Did you take a screenshot?
Hmmm, you tried two revisions?
First "* SEARCH" with space between * and SEARCH, okay, that was probably wrong (my fault).
Second "*SEARCH" and "**Special:Random|Random page" in next line. Space removed is fine... but why the second line? Putting a sub-section under the "dummy" search entry looks a bit extreme. Wouldn't be too surprised if that caused problems.
Yup, you found the problem. I guess it was always there and we just didn't notice, I'm afraid :D
You mean there were two search boxes displayed, on top of the window, for many months, and nobody ever noticed it?
Is it possible that cpcwiki users are THAT blind? :-)
PS. Or did you mean the part about eventually showing the "SEARCH" section headline without search box?
I guess people could haven't noticed that problem, if it was there.
Can't you take a screenshot? I am still not sure what problem we are talking about exactly.
Maybe two boxes. Not too serious for people to notice or register as a 'problem' though!
The fact is, I reverted the sidebar to older versions and could not reproduce it... And, frankly, I don't care enough!
> And, frankly, I don't care enough!
Yeah, you ENJOY that you don't care, aren't you? At least, it feels like so :-(
> Maybe two boxes.
That means you have really SEEN two search boxes?
Then why didn't I see them with either skin?
Can't you just restore the version from 14 March 2010?
That is: the version BEFORE the Random Page was added.
So you have this:
*SEARCH <--- first line
<--- second line (blank)
*Contents <--- third line
**mainpage|mainpage <--- fourth line
... <--- further lines
Then put "**Special:Random|Random page" back in at some reasonable place
(NB. at the moment Random Page is in the first line for whatever reason).
*sigh*.... not sure how many times to say it before I lock the thread: I. Do. Not. Care. I've said it before, I'll say it now, I won't be supporting other skins!
Hmmm, you are strange. Anyways, what about the random page thing? As it is now, it looks as if you messed something more. If you seriously don't want to restore the search box, okay, your choice. But cleaning up the random page link - is that too much?
Random link appears just fine, both in the default skin and Monobook. Perhaps, if you could show what is wrong with it...