Poll
Question:
Is it important for you that a demo runs on all CRTC types?
Option 1: I only need CRTC 1 demos - all other prods are crap
votes: 0
Option 2: A demo coder should keep in mind, that his prod runs on all CRTC types because we all want to watch it.
votes: 34
Option 3: I don't mind, because I use an Emulator with CRTC-Types 0-28
votes: 5
Option 4: I want cookies
votes: 2
Option 5: Err.. What is a demo?
votes: 0
Option 6: I only need CRTC 0 demos - all other prods are crap
votes: 1
Option 7: I only need CRTC 2 demos - all other prods are crap
votes: 2
Option 8: I only need CRTC 3/4 (ASIC) demos - all other prods are crap
votes: 2
Here's a little, but I find, important poll for you ;)
Why can't I select all three?
- I don't mind, because I use an Emulator with CRTC-Types 0-28
- I want cookies
- Err.. What is a demo?
Nah, only kidding! I think coders should be mindful of all CRCT types. Some people still have CRCT-2 monitors and they'd miss out on all the fun! However, I use an emulator (until I find a decent 6128 on eBay) and it's currently set to CRCT-26.
Am I missing something? What the hell means CRTC 0-28?? There's only four the last time I checked. What's next? CRTC 29: CPC with OpenGL support?
All CRTC types should be supported. If it really must be then exclude CRTC2. The only problem I see is how to test it. I don't think every single coder (or coder to be) has access to all CRTC types.
Anyway, the differences between them are not documented. Most websites on that assume implicitly that you know about the subtler differences.
Quote from: MaV on 16:12, 23 August 11
Am I missing something? What the hell means CRTC 0-28?? There's only four the last time I checked. What's next? CRTC 29: CPC with OpenGL support?
Are you sure, you are using the right emulator? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :P
There was no option for "I don't know what a CRTC is" so I went with cookies cos I'm hungry and I'd like some cookies now.
Well, I think such a poll is very definite. I mean, my first option would be "all machines", but if that's not possible then what the heck, emulators are a good way to go...
Quote from: MaV on 16:12, 23 August 11
Am I missing something? What the hell means CRTC 0-28?? There's only four the last time I checked. What's next? CRTC 29: CPC with OpenGL support?
All CRTC types should be supported. If it really must be then exclude CRTC2. The only problem I see is how to test it. I don't think every single coder (or coder to be) has access to all CRTC types.
Anyway, the differences between them are not documented. Most websites on that assume implicitly that you know about the subtler differences.
Hey Cholo,
If you wanna read regarding the CRTC differences, I would suggest you to read this (http://www.grimware.org/doku.php/documentations/devices/crtc).
It is written by Grim, who is a demo-master; thus, the info found there is (probably) the most accurate ;)
And as for the main question of this thread, I believe that the answer is obvious: YES, IT IS IMPORTANT A DEMO TO RUN ON ALL CRTC TYPES... (OK, CRTC type 2 can be excluded :) )
Quote from: Devilmarkus on 16:30, 23 August 11
Are you sure, you are using the right emulator? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :P
Emulator? You're kidding me.
Why enhance an emulator with CRTC types? They should accurately emulate all CPCs, not enhance what can't be done on real hardware.
Quote from: voXfReaX on 19:05, 23 August 11
Hey Cholo,
I prefer MaV, thank you very much.
And no, I don't have a Hispanic background. And you know this one is offensive, right?
Go learn some manners. You certainly don't get them by playing GTA: Vice City.
Quote
If you wanna read regarding the CRTC differences, I would suggest you to read this (http://www.grimware.org/doku.php/documentations/devices/crtc).
It is written by Grim, who is a demo-master; thus, the info found there is (probably) the most accurate ;)
Yep, it's good, I've been reading it, and keep returning to it regularly. And I don't want to miss it.
Except, it is not complete, and does not explain the finer differences between the various CRTC types. So, if you don't have all CRTCs in hardware, you can't test your programs. Someone does know, but the knowledge is not shared. In the end, everyone discovers the same abilities by themselves, over and over again.
.
Quote from: phi2x on 19:56, 23 August 11
A while back, I found this matrix on the web which goes deep in the subtleties: http://pulko.mandy.pagesperso-orange.fr/shinra/crtc.shtml (http://pulko.mandy.pagesperso-orange.fr/shinra/crtc.shtml)
Yes, that's very good info! Thank you! :)
Quote from: MaV on 19:30, 23 August 11
I prefer MaV, thank you very much.
And no, I don't have a Hispanic background. And you know this one is offensive, right?
Go learn some manners. You certainly don't get them by playing GTA: Vice City.
Take it easy man; I was just about to apologize!!!! What is this? Some kind of joke?
No mistake is allowed, otherwise MaV will hunt and kill you???
Get serious man! I just tried to help you!
I didn't want to undervalue your personality or whatever you imagined in your head!
And be sure that I have manners; some others don't! Got it?
Quote from: voXfReaX on 20:27, 23 August 11
And be sure that I have manners; some others don't! Got it?
Ok, accepted.
And your help IS appreciated. Just be careful with how you address people, especially during the Dog Days. ;)
I think Voxfreax just confused the usernames; let's try and take it easy...
Vox, man, I don't think Mav was overly aggressive, so I don't think he deserves lashing out...
Are we good? :)
Quote from: Gryzor on 21:34, 23 August 11
Are we good? :)
All your base are belong to us :D
Ok then, in the same meme mood, and to cheer us up a bit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH2-TGUlwu4# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH2-TGUlwu4#)
Now let's get back on topic!
http://cpc-live.com/AYB.swf
How much coders have CPCs with all three CRTC types - and a Plus?
Quote from: Gryzor on 21:34, 23 August 11
Are we good? :)
Sure. The next round is on me.
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTqSr5EobmBWaTjFtoeRgeCKOJ7aXg7Uv5C_a-diRBICBemVbT_)
To me, if a demo does not support all CRTCs, then it's not a demo, it's a prototype.
In fact, "From Scratch" is a cool demo...
But it's really sad to see that it only works with CRTC type 1... :(
Thats the only reason, why this demo is not on my "most liked CPC demos"
Ok, ok, other demos have these problems, too:
Big'O'Full'O'Demo -> CRTC 0 only!
X-Files -> CRTC 1 only!
But these are older prods...
(Many demos only work with CRTC 1 or (mostly Prodatron demos) with CRTC 0)
Quote from: norecess on 22:03, 23 August 11
To me, if a demo does not support all CRTCs, then it's not a demo, it's a prototype.
Well, then the French demos are 95% prototypes *ggg*
On the other hand some effects can only be done with CRTC 0 or 1. But this brings us back to the lame discussion of the other thread "How is a demo defined ::) "
I'm really one of the crazies, who have all CRTCs in CPCs and all types of Monitors, just to see that my trash runs on all machines. But I wouldn't expect that from others. ;)
Seriously i don't even know what CRTC I Have on my CPCs...
;D
Quotein the same meme mood
I always thought that a meme(tic) themed demo on Amstrad could be great.
This nyan Cat could do great on CPC or even PLUS.
Perhaps Epic sax guy too ?
Quote from: MacDeath on 03:00, 24 August 11
Seriously i don't even know what CRTC I Have on my CPCs...
;D
I always thought that a meme(tic) themed demo on Amstrad could be great.
This nyan Cat could do great on CPC or even PLUS.
Perhaps Epic sax guy too ?
Ooh you're SO right! And you could even have a DMA sample playing... would be fantastic!
Quote from: Gryzor on 21:34, 23 August 11
I think Voxfreax just confused the usernames; let's try and take it easy...
Vox, man, I don't think Mav was overly aggressive, so I don't think he deserves lashing out...
Are we good? :)
I didn't lash out first; MaV did; and his reply was aggressive when you consider that I just confused his nick with Cholo's one.
Anyway, case is closed. I am OK with the guy...
Quote from: TFM/FS on 02:45, 24 August 11
Well, then the French demos are 95% prototypes *ggg*
On the other hand some effects can only be done with CRTC 0 or 1. But this brings us back to the lame discussion of the other thread "How is a demo defined ::) "
I'm really one of the crazies, who have all CRTCs in CPCs and all types of Monitors, just to see that my trash runs on all machines. But I wouldn't expect that from others. ;)
Same goes for the German ones man! Voyage MD, PDT MD, Ultimade MD run perfectly only on CRTC 0 for example! I think only the Greek demos didn't have a problem since the effects were simpler... :D "A Step Beyond" is not simpler of course, but this great demo is mainly a software demo rather than a hardware one... Anyway.
I've never been able to find a CPC with CRTC2; but I am a proud owner of CRTCs 0 and 1.
I also have a plus, which is a bit far away for the moment ;)
The definition of what is a demo is rather confusing and might have different meanings to each of us... In my mind it's something like: "A brief illustration of the abilities of a musician, a designer and a coder." Well, in the case of BF, we have a long demonstration, but I feel that none of us have any problem with it :)
I think the most popular selection from the poll was missing. If you ask many sceners about this, the most popular opinion is"It should run at least on the most standard CRTCs like 1,2 and 4(plus)". But the poll either had "It has to run in ALL crtc regardless" or "It must run only in my CRTC, because all the other suck".
Quote from: Optimus on 10:26, 24 August 11
I think the most popular selection from the poll was missing. If you ask many sceners about this, the most popular opinion is"It should run at least on the most standard CRTCs like 1,2 and 4(plus)". But the poll either had "It has to run in ALL crtc regardless" or "It must run only in my CRTC, because all the other suck".
Do you think this would change the result?
Quote from: Devilmarkus on 10:32, 24 August 11
Do you think this would change the result?
Maybe not. I voted for ALL while having this in mind.
One option 'could' be that a demo should support all CRTC types, but has 1 or 2 effects less on a different CRTC than it has been optimized for.
But I also think this could be the point "All..." ;)
I guess coding only software rendering effects has one advantage. I never worried about my code not running on a CRTC I don't have. However, if my next demo uses the CRTC heavilly, I think an emulator would be a bliss for coders not having the real machine. At least if your effects work the same as in the real thing, but Winape32 has 99% compatibility I think. So far I have bought three CPCs hoping for a CRTC 0 (you can't know before you test it) to only get CRTC 1. At least I can run From Sratch.
Quote from: Optimus on 10:38, 24 August 11Winape32 has 99% compatibility I think. So far I have bought three CPCs hoping for a CRTC 0 (you can't know before you test it) to only get CRTC 1. At least I can run From Sratch.
Sure, when you remind, that 2 effects in "From Scratch" are not working in WinApe.
(1 is not even visible, the 2nd is broken)
And this is a thing, you will not only find in WinApe but in all emulators.
An Emulator is not able to be 99% perfect.
http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=57406 (http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=57406)
http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=57410 (http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=57410)
http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=57530 (http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=57530)
http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=57271 (http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=57271)
Nyancat was ported on several 8bits :) )
Who is for a CPC version? (don't ask me :)
Quote from: Devilmarkus on 10:40, 24 August 11
Sure, when you remind, that 2 effects in "From Scratch" are not working in WinApe.
(1 is not even visible, the 2nd is broken)
And this is a thing, you will not only find in WinApe but in all emulators.
An Emulator is not able to be 99% perfect.
You mean 100% perfect :)
Well, I forgot that about From Scratch. But Batman Forever works well. Since I am not going to code the most obscure CRTC tricks at the moment, emulators are still fine for the most standard stuff when you don't have the machine with different CRTC for testing.
Well, I meant 99% ;) But who cares about 1%? :D
One other thing are rasters in emulators.
WinApe changes them 8 pixels too early, JavaCPC 8 pixels too late, Others don't even know, what rasters are...
Really I coded around 3-4 days just to find out how the rasters could be shown properly.
(Talking about "Bloc-Us")
But I have no solution...
I made a few screenshots for the demo "Bloc us"
The rasters are all in-accurate.
But compare yourself:
Caprice 32:
(http://cpc-live.com/bu_caprice32.png)
CPCBox:
(http://cpc-live.com/bu_cpcbox.png)
CPCe95:
(http://cpc-live.com/bu_cpce.png)
JavaCPC:
(http://cpc-live.com/bu_javacpc.png)
JEMU (Current compiled sources):
(http://cpc-live.com/bu_jemu.png)
PC-CPC:
(http://cpc-live.com/bu_pc-cpc.png)
Caprice reloaded (R_415, the latest does not work on my system because a .dll is missing):
(http://cpc-live.com/bu_reloaded.png)
WinApe:
(http://cpc-live.com/bu_winape.png)
WinCPC:
(http://cpc-live.com/bu_wincpc.png)
Quote from: Devilmarkus on 12:24, 24 August 11
I made a few screenshots for the demo "Bloc us"
The rasters are all in-accurate.
But compare yourself:
Caprice 32:
(http://cpc-live.com/bu_caprice32.png)
CPCBox:
(http://cpc-live.com/bu_cpcbox.png)
CPCe95:
(http://cpc-live.com/bu_cpce.png)
JavaCPC:
(http://cpc-live.com/bu_javacpc.png)
JEMU (Current compiled sources):
(http://cpc-live.com/bu_jemu.png)
PC-CPC:
(http://cpc-live.com/bu_pc-cpc.png)
Caprice reloaded (R_415, the latest does not work on my system because a .dll is missing):
(http://cpc-live.com/bu_reloaded.png)
WinApe:
(http://cpc-live.com/bu_winape.png)
WinCPC:
(http://cpc-live.com/bu_wincpc.png)
Unfortunately, the thing with the splitrasters' timings exists in every demo which runs under an emulator...
Bloc us is one example, another one is From scratch (vanity logo), and I am sure there are many more ;)
Sure but here you can see the raster zones better...
For the demo "From Scratch" I am using a very dirty routine to show the rasters @ exact accurate positions:
(http://cpc-live.com/scratch_rasters.png)
(Deinterlaced screenshot)
I will not tell you how my trick works, but this is exactly the same result I get on my real CPC 6128.
Quote from: Devilmarkus on 12:34, 24 August 11
For the demo "From Scratch" I am using a very dirty routine to show the rasters @ exact accurate positions:
(http://cpc-live.com/scratch_rasters.png)
(Deinterlaced screenshot)
I will not tell you how my trick works, but this is exactly the same result I get on my real CPC 6128.
OK, good; but it's a 'special patch' in order from scratch rasters to be shown correctly...
Normally your emu will not be able to do the job... And i am not underestimating your work (which is respectful btw), I am just pointing out this rasters'-timing-problem.
Quote from: Devilmarkus on 12:34, 24 August 11
I will not tell you how my trick works, but this is exactly the same result I get on my real CPC 6128.
Please! Pretty Please! Please, please, please!
Please!Please!Please!Please!Please!Please!Please!Please! Please! Please! Please! Please! Please! Please! Please! Please! Please! Please! Please! Please!
:P
Quote from: voXfReaX on 12:46, 24 August 11
OK, good; but it's a 'special patch' in order from scratch rasters to be shown correctly...
Normally your emu will not be able to do the job... And i am not underestimating your work (which is respectful btw), I am just pointing out this rasters'-timing-problem.
Yeah I know ;)
But, until it's still impossible for me (and of course also for other emu coders who surely am working on the same problem: Syncing GateArray, Z80 and CPC) I use dirty tricks ;)
Quote from: MaV on 12:49, 24 August 11
Please! Pretty Please! Please, please, please!
Please!
Please!
Please!
Please!
Please!
Please!
Please!
Please! Please! Please! Please! Please! Please! Please! Please! Please! Please! Please! Please! Please!
:P
No
.
On a more serious note:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/08/accuracy-takes-power-one-mans-3ghz-quest-to-build-a-perfect-snes-emulator.ars (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/08/accuracy-takes-power-one-mans-3ghz-quest-to-build-a-perfect-snes-emulator.ars)
This article explains partly the problems with SNES-Emulation. Markus' hack reminds me of those emulators which try to patch the emu for one game, and because of that break them for the next. In the end, the code turns into a total mess.
However, his ideas are quite extremist, as he'd like to emulate the chip even at transistor level with correct propagation delay. Nice thought, but not executable, IMO.
The only "real" solution is real hardware... Can't beat it :)
Bryce.
The 2 pixels are also missing on my 6128. But due to monitor weakness its hard to spot them out.
The thing is, some of us are still looking for real hardware... *grrr*
But then, you've got the 'fun' of transferring everything from PC to CPC. If you've got a 3.5" drive in your CPC, great! But PC to 3" doesn't sound fun to me! (I haven't tried it, obviously, but...)
This is why emulators are so common to lamers and demo-watchers, rather than purists and coders.
We know that it's almost impossible to emulate hardware 100% correctly, and that's why we don't complain if a demo/game fails to work exactly as the coder intended (eg, the few incorrect coloured-pixels in the BLOC US raster). We accept that as an emulator 'characteristic' and ignorantly assume it works perfectly on real hardware... and then move on.
.
Sorry, your eminence...
My eyes are blurred.
Quote from: Devilmarkus on 13:42, 24 August 11
Sorry, your eminence...
My eyes are blurred.
Will you shut up in presence of his majesty! *bitchslap*
:D
Quote from: MaV on 13:43, 24 August 11
Will you shut up in presence of his majesty! *bitchslap*
:D
Well... yeah... And again:
sorry
.
Einstein... Dead!
Newton... Dead!
Reagan... Dead!
And I'm feeling sick, too...
Quote from: Devilmarkus on 13:50, 24 August 11
Einstein... Dead!
Newton... Dead!
Reagan... Dead!
And I'm feeling sick, too...
Amsdos... Nearly Dead!
CP/M....... Dead!
Stream2... Dead!
SOS......... Dead!
And FutureOS and me are feeling better every day 8) :laugh:
Quote from: Devilmarkus on 12:49, 24 August 11
But, until it's still impossible for me (and of course also for other emu coders who surely am working on the same problem: Syncing GateArray, Z80 and CPC) I use dirty tricks
Below are two screenshots taken with ACE 1.1 (http://ace.cpcscene.com/).
[AmigaZealotMode ON]
Emu-coders on PC suck :)[/AmigaZealotMode]
Quote from: Bryce on 13:28, 24 August 11
The only "real" solution is real hardware... Can't beat it :)
Bryce.
Totally agree! And therefore I do as much as possible on the real machine. And if I have time to get something to drink while assembling 500 KB with maxam, then this it just relaxing and provides time for new thoughts ;-)
Quote from: Grim on 21:10, 24 August 11
Below are two screenshots taken with ACE 1.1 (http://ace.cpcscene.com/).
[AmigaZealotMode ON]
Emu-coders on PC suck :)
[/AmigaZealotMode]
So sad that just a handful people can use this emu...
Quote from: Optimus on 10:41, 24 August 11
http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=57406 (http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=57406)
http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=57410 (http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=57410)
http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=57530 (http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=57530)
http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=57271 (http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=57271)
Nyancat was ported on several 8bits :) )
Who is for a CPC version? (don't ask me :)
I really, really hope that nobody will code that on CPC...
Quote from: TFM/FS on 21:22, 24 August 11
And if I have time to get something to drink while assembling 500 KB with maxam, then this it just relaxing and provides time for new thoughts ;-)
And now the important question: How many pints does it take to compile 500kb with maxam? :D
Quote from: MaV on 10:53, 25 August 11
And now the important question: How many pints does it take to compile 500kb with maxam? :D
You forgot: TFM's CPC is running @ 6mhz!
http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/6_MHz_CPC (http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/6_MHz_CPC)
(so 1 pint less)
Quote from: Devilmarkus on 10:54, 25 August 11
You forgot: TFM's CPC is running @ 6mhz!
http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/6_MHz_CPC (http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/6_MHz_CPC)
(so 1 pint less)
One pint less means usually 3 pints @4 MHz and 2 pints @6 MHz, but....
So... it's YOU!!! :o taking all my pints!!! An I thought it was the neighbours Nycat who stole 33% of my pints! :)
EDIT: NyCat running @6 MHz...
Nyan Cat [Speed Up 1000%] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTnjnxWCLb8#)
.
It would be interesting to know, what you changed here ;)
The result looks cool...
.
That mean, at last we will be able to see perfectly in an emulator the Goku picture of my mode 5 viewer??? ;)
.
Do I have CPCe so bad configured or CPCBox display is better? :D
.
Quote from: phi2x on 18:14, 27 August 11edit: I checked it on CPC. There's definitely something wrong with CPCBox there. Sorry about that :/ Screenshot from my real CPC below.
Well, but you are making a great job with CPCBox,
phi2x, and i'm sure that very soon the picture will appear in CPCBox exactly how in the real CPCs ;)
.
@phi2x: thanks for the info.
My problem is:
In JavaCPC the rasters change ~4 MODE 1 pixels too late!!!
(http://cpc-live.com/bu_javacpc.png)
So a delay is not very helpful here...
(Sent you a PM)
Quote from: phi2x on 14:03, 27 August 11
Coming soon in a browser near you...
no dirty tricks involved 8)
Looks great, which browser is it? Netscape? :laugh:
Quote from: TFM/FS on 21:34, 27 August 11
Looks great, which browser is it? Netscape? :laugh:
Sure... it's Netscape... Thats why in upper left corner is an orange "Netscape" - field...
*Putting my glasses on...
Opppsss... Firefox :D
.
Quote from: phi2x on 22:21, 27 August 11
So we all have problems. But it would spoil all the fun if there wasn't any more problem to resolve, isn't it? :D
Sure... pure fun :D (depressing, demotivating, braincrumbling)
Yoohooooooooooooo :D
(Need holidays now) :P
Would be good, though I've pretty much stated that a 10-Liner Demo has the same effect on me as a large scale Demo Production (sadly), and I'm not necessarily referring to the ACU Demo by ChaRleyTroniC :D
I'm sorry though I'm going off-topic now, though I had a thought the other day which has been applied and wondered why I don't see much when it comes to comical or humourous demo programs. Doesn't have to be ground breaking, just funny. In "Fast Food" for example there were all these little funny Comical adventures with Dizzy doing things to the Ghosts when Dizzy had passed certain levels. Those sorts of things were just so funny - I had to cheat just to see all of them (it got hard when you had to play Fast Food Upside down though). I just wondered cause I haven't seen much and usually when humourous things are being done their within a game, though there's no reason why it couldn't be a program of it's own in the form of a little cartoon adventure to a comic strip.
.
Well... working on it...
(http://cpc-live.com/bu_javacpc2.png)
(http://cpc-live.com/goku_javacpc.png)
(http://cpc-live.com/scratch_javacpc.png)
.
Quote from: Devilmarkus on 11:21, 28 August 11
Well... working on it...
(http://cpc-live.com/bu_javacpc2.png)
Still, there are some pixels missed in the "US" word ;)
.
At last!!! :D :D :D Great Work phix2 and Devilmarkus!!! ;D
Where i can get the last version of both emulators??? :D ;)
.
Quote from: voXfReaX on 11:59, 28 August 11
Still, there are some pixels missed in the "US" word ;)
If you even move the pixels about 1! MODE 1 pixel to the left, the result in the other text would be bad:
(http://cpc-live.com/bu_wrong.png)
@Syx: cannot release anything yet because need to fix more depencies on this...
But also "Arome Tomate" looks better with this pixel delay:
(http://cpc-live.com/at.png)
Don't worry Markus, take your time :D I know that you always aim to the perfection ;)
Quote from: Gryzor on 07:30, 24 August 11
Ooh you're SO right! And you could even have a DMA sample playing... would be fantastic!
No need for DMA ;D
This song is a bit like "Psycho Pigs UXB", don't you think?
Quote from: phi2x on 12:07, 28 August 11
That's a "bug" in the Bloc Us demo actually ;D
I think the demo must have been designed on a Plus computer, because the Plus handle palette changes slightly differently than the CPC.
To be precise, on the Plus, palette changes occur 2 pixels (mode 1) sooner than on CPC.
To handle it perfectly in both cases, Krusty should have put a Plus detection and then sliding the bitmap 2 pixels to the left. Or some other polishing like that.
Yes, there is a bug.
No time to notice it when we did the demo.
Btw, the pictures has not been design to use split rasters, so we are lucky it works with the first letters ;)
The demo has been tested with my multicrtc machine which has weird splitraster timings (ok with crtc0 and erroneous with crtc1...).
Few dozen of minutes before finished the music I needed to ask to Hicks to validate rasters timing on his computers as I did not know which of my CRTCs was right ....
Concerning the plus, of course I am aware of that.
Few people will love my sentence, but it is voluntary if I did not manage a compatibility. This is a CPC demo, not an Amstrad plus one ;)
Quote from: Devilmarkus on 15:21, 28 August 11
@Syx: cannot release anything yet because need to fix more depencies on this...
But also "Arome Tomate" looks better with this pixel delay:
(http://cpc-live.com/at.png)
I think there are sometimes pb even in a real computer for Arom Tomate.
I often see it with wrong timings in split rasters: Maybe 4 nops with wrong color on the left.
I suppose Candy uses stables routines which can be wrongly synchronised first by catching vbl when it is already started ?
mcklain, Qué Weno!!! ;D Estás que te sales!!! Ma molao ese jingle tan alegre!!! ;)
Quote from: krusty on 21:36, 28 August 11
... This is a CPC demo, not an Amstrad plus one ;)
This brings us back to the topic of this thread finally. It's easy to check if the used CPC is a Plus, and it isn't hard at all to adapt a CPC demo to the Plus. So if a demo works not with all machines it's just pretty sad (and I wouldn't call it a demo :P ) - except it uses effects that can only be done with a special CRTC (f.e. CRTC 0 can do a lot that can't be done by CRTC 1, not even talking about CRTC 2).
Quote from: TFM/FS on 02:28, 29 August 11
This brings us back to the topic of this thread finally. It's easy to check if the used CPC is a Plus, and it isn't hard at all to adapt a CPC demo to the Plus. So if a demo works not with all machines it's just pretty sad (and I wouldn't call it a demo :P ) - except it uses effects that can only be done with a special CRTC (f.e. CRTC 0 can do a lot that can't be done by CRTC 1, not even talking about CRTC 2).
I partly agree.
Amstrad plus is a totally different machine with totally different colors than the CPC.
Even if rasters would be well synchronized, the colors chosen by Voxfreax would be different and the demo would not look what he wanted.
If a CPC demo must work on an Amstrad plus, in my opinion, it must be modified to also use AMstrad plus palette and capabilities. Otherwise, there is no interest.
Note that Bloc Us! is referenced as a CPC demo on pouet and not a CPC demo AND Amstrad plus demo.
I have not tested it on an Amstrad plus machine when developing it, but, I suppose it works on it (crtc point of view, not ga).
And the title post is about CRTC compatibility, not gate array compatibility ;) So BU fits the requirements.
BTW, I do not think other Benediction members share my point of view ;)
So our next production will probably have syncronized split rasters...
Consider people having ONLY the Plus. They would like to use software from a machine (CPC old generation), that has been mentioned as "compatible".
Sure, you're right, there are minor differences in colors, raster timing and more... but it's still not a problem to get a demo running on the Plus, even if the colors will look slightly different, but this must not even be an disadvantage.
If you go one step further and like to use some of the Plus featuren, then Great!!!
Well, all raster changes rolled back... I'm too dumb to find the missing depending things...
So JavaCPC will stay in-accurate here.