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General Category => Demos => Topic started by: BSC on 00:14, 14 August 19

Title: SID Sound Reloaded
Post by: BSC on 00:14, 14 August 19
Hello fellow CPCists!


I did it again. Some SID stuff. Just some early demo (so far, CPC music has only used around 6% of the AYs capacity)


https://soundcloud.com/carl-carbunckel/arcane (https://soundcloud.com/carl-carbunckel/arcane)


Greetings :)
Title: Re: SID or something?
Post by: Scarlettkitten on 00:21, 14 August 19
Nice  8)
Title: Re: SID or something?
Post by: HAL 6128 on 00:22, 14 August 19
Sounds awesome. ...like the deep base.
Title: Re: SID or something?
Post by: Targhan on 13:17, 14 August 19
Interesting! Is it 3-channel SID sample? Did you do that with a more advanced version of your sid software?
Title: Re: SID or something?
Post by: Ast on 14:00, 14 August 19
Yes, a new Bsc's song… Happy to ear this one.
Title: Re: SID or something?
Post by: Targhan on 15:36, 14 August 19
No, it's not a new song, it's Zap't'Ball loading screen adaptation (by Weee I guess?).
Title: Re: SID or something?
Post by: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 16:53, 14 August 19
No, it's not a new song, it's Zap't'Ball loading screen adaptation (by Weee I guess?).
Actually, it's a version of THE LAST HERO (https://csdb.dk/sid/?id=12652) by FUTURE FREAK of DEXION!
Also famous as "ARCANE THEME" (by Zetrix) on Amiga cracktros.
Title: Re: SID or something?
Post by: HAL 6128 on 23:33, 14 August 19
Hey BSC, this isn't a SID emulation. You programed that with you SID tracker, right?
Title: Re: SID or something?
Post by: BSC on 12:36, 15 August 19
Interesting! Is it 3-channel SID sample? Did you do that with a more advanced version of your sid software?



Thanks! Yes, the engine can play 3 independent "SID" voices at once, each with it's own pitch and waveform and it's indeed an evolution of the AYAY engine.
The working title it AY³ or AYcubed :)
Title: Re: SID or something?
Post by: BSC on 12:39, 15 August 19
Actually, it's a version of THE LAST HERO (https://csdb.dk/sid/?id=12652) by FUTURE FREAK of DEXION!
Also famous as "ARCANE THEME" (by Zetrix) on Amiga cracktros.


Exactly! I only knew it as "Arcane" until a few months ago. The SID version is a conversion from my (not WEEEs) Soundtrakker cover which
was also used in Zap't'Balls. I just found your rendition of The Last Hero on Youtube btw. Really nice!
Title: Re: SID or something?
Post by: BSC on 12:41, 15 August 19
Hey BSC, this isn't a SID emulation. You programed that with you SID tracker, right?


Kind of. It's actually a more evolved versoin of my SID engine from some years ago. There's still no tracker, though ..
A real SID emulation is impossible on the CPC, but I think I came as close as you can get (maybe even closer in the future  :D )
Title: Re: SID or something?
Post by: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 12:56, 15 August 19
Nice!


How much CPU time does the emulation take? And what do you mean by 6% of the AY capabilities?
Title: Re: SID or something?
Post by: Targhan on 13:07, 15 August 19
Quote
Thanks! Yes, the engine can play 3 independent "SID" voices at once, each with it's own pitch and waveform and it's indeed an evolution of the AYAY engine.

Ok so it is like what I did for Imperial Mahjong I guess (which is, in all fairness, is inspired from what you did on your SID tracker!). Are the three channels on three different channels (that's what I do on IM), or do you mix them on one channel?
Title: Re: SID or something?
Post by: BSC on 16:00, 15 August 19
How much CPU time does the emulation take? And what do you mean by 6% of the AY capabilities?


It is a really modest engine and takes all of the CPU time. No time left for anything else (a few raster bars or similar maybe)
Title: Re: SID or something?
Post by: BSC on 14:23, 25 August 19
Ok so it is like what I did for Imperial Mahjong I guess (which is, in all fairness, is inspired from what you did on your SID tracker!). Are the three channels on three different channels (that's what I do on IM), or do you mix them on one channel?

I knew that already ;-)

The three channels are mixed into one, otherwise the replay rate would be too low and the sound would be too harsh.
I am still experimenting with increasing the replay rate. Currently it is around 12 KHz.
Title: Re: SID or something?
Post by: BSC on 14:25, 25 August 19
How much CPU time does the emulation take? And what do you mean by 6% of the AY capabilities?

The 6% thing was a pun relating to what Rhino wrote in the Batman Demo, where he stated something similar about CPC Demos :)

Anyway I think there's a lot of room for cool things to do with the PSG...
Title: Re: SID Sound Reloaded
Post by: BSC on 13:51, 30 November 19
Here's another preview:

https://soundcloud.com/carl-carbunckel/arcane-preview-ii

plus some technical details in the description for those inclined.
Title: Re: SID Sound Reloaded
Post by: HAL 6128 on 23:11, 01 December 19
Fascinating what the AY is capable of, great sound.
Title: Re: SID Sound Reloaded
Post by: LambdaMikel on 08:21, 02 December 19
Here's another preview:

https://soundcloud.com/carl-carbunckel/arcane-preview-ii (https://soundcloud.com/carl-carbunckel/arcane-preview-ii)

plus some technical details in the description for those inclined.
Great achievement! What SID tune is that? It would be interesting to do an "unfair comparison" with a real CPC SID expansion card  ;) (I know it would be unfair, but interesting regardless!)
Title: Re: SID Sound Reloaded
Post by: TotO on 11:01, 02 December 19

Really nice BSC!  :)

It would be interesting to do an "unfair comparison" with a real CPC SID expansion card (I know it would be unfair, but interesting regardless!)
Are peoples programming music for CPC do care how it sound on C64 or other computers using a different sound chip? For SID Sound, they know perfectly how it is, because the goal is technicaly to tend to approach it. The same when the AY try to do Amiga tunes on GX/PLUS (Eeries Forest), it is really impressing (the SID can't?) but obviously not as good as Paula. At end, the AY looks to be a versatile circuit to fake others.
Title: Re: SID Sound Reloaded
Post by: LambdaMikel on 17:03, 02 December 19
Really nice BSC!  :)
Are peoples programming music for CPC do care how it sound on C64 or other computers using a different sound chip? For SID Sound, they know perfectly how it is, because the goal is technicaly to tend to approach it. The same when the AY try to do Amiga tunes on GX/PLUS (Eeries Forest), it is really impressing (the SID can't?) but obviously not as good as Paula. At end, the AY looks to be a versatile circuit to fake others.
Agreed. Yes, as I said, it is an impressive piece of AY programming & wizardry, and hence an impressive achievement, but it does not necessesarily "sound good" (which is of course subjective - which unfortunately applies to most AY-based sample playing IMHO....) Unfortunately, sample playing is the weakest capabiliy of the AY chip, due to its technical limitations (even with DMA). It is better suited for chiptunes IMHO. All subjective of course... But I find it great that people like BSC figure out how to max it out!!! As I said, impressed!

I am wondering though if the same code could also be used to sample play over a Digiblaster or Amdrum or similar? That might give 8bit PCM resolution?
Title: Re: SID Sound Reloaded
Post by: BSC on 22:20, 02 December 19
Great achievement! What SID tune is that? It would be interesting to do an "unfair comparison" with a real CPC SID expansion card  ;) (I know it would be unfair, but interesting regardless!)

Thanks!

The original SID is called The Last Hero by Future Freak:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvecpmfD17g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvecpmfD17g)


My first CPC covers were based on the Amiga version by Zetrix:


https://soundcloud.com/4irmann/zetrix-arcane-theme-the-last-hero-cover-4irmann-remaster (https://soundcloud.com/4irmann/zetrix-arcane-theme-the-last-hero-cover-4irmann-remaster)




Before you start your unfair comparison I have to finish the tune in Soundtrakker, so that I can
convert it to the AY³ engine. I have been too lazy yet to do that *shrug*
Title: Re: SID Sound Reloaded
Post by: BSC on 22:28, 02 December 19



The same when the AY try to do Amiga tunes on GX/PLUS (Eeries Forest), it is really impressing (the SID can't?) but obviously not as good as Paula.
At end, the AY looks to be a versatile circuit to fake others.

The C64/SID can do much better sample replay then the CPC/AY, just have a listen and look at this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6LYrQk5I7s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6LYrQk5I7s)


There's even a description in the description describing how it was done. Channel 3 plays multiple samples
at once, that's effin impressive.





Title: Re: SID Sound Reloaded
Post by: BSC on 22:33, 02 December 19
Agreed. Yes, as I said, it is an impressive piece of AY programming & wizardry, and hence an impressive achievement, but it does not necessesarily "sound good" (which is of course subjective - which unfortunately applies to most AY-based sample playing IMHO....) Unfortunately, sample playing is the weakest capabiliy of the AY chip, due to its technical limitations (even with DMA). It is better suited for chiptunes IMHO. All subjective of course... But I find it great that people like BSC figure out how to max it out!!! As I said, impressed!

I am wondering though if the same code could also be used to sample play over a Digiblaster or Amdrum or similar? That might give 8bit PCM resolution?


I might make a Digiblaster version of it some day (though I don't have one). Or anyone else can do it after I released the source.
Playing though the Digiblaster will surely sound a lot better. But I LOVE to make stuff that runs on your ordinary 464 (or,
in very rare cases, a 6128) without any additional hardware, just like it could have done in 1984 :)
Title: Re: SID Sound Reloaded
Post by: BSC on 00:51, 22 December 19
And here's another one:


https://soundcloud.com/carl-carbunckel/cpcsid-arcane-preview-iii (https://soundcloud.com/carl-carbunckel/cpcsid-arcane-preview-iii)


This one uses different wave forms (as promised in the last preview): sine, saw-tooth and square with sweeping pulse width.

Recorded directly from a real CPC 6128, no processing other than normalization was applied.


PS: Merry xmas everyone!
Title: Re: SID Sound Reloaded
Post by: LambdaMikel on 03:52, 22 December 19
The C64/SID can do much better sample replay then the CPC/AY, just have a listen and look at this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6LYrQk5I7s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6LYrQk5I7s)


There's even a description in the description describing how it was done. Channel 3 plays multiple samples
at once, that's effin impressive.
The SID was designed and intended to be a musical instrument by Bob Yannes.
The AY was intended as a beeper for slot machines by GI.
Title: Re: SID Sound Reloaded
Post by: BSC on 17:20, 23 December 19
And here's another one:


https://soundcloud.com/carl-carbunckel/cpcsid-arcane-preview-iii (https://soundcloud.com/carl-carbunckel/cpcsid-arcane-preview-iii)


This one uses different wave forms (as promised in the last preview): sine, saw-tooth and square with sweeping pulse width.

Recorded directly from a real CPC 6128, no processing other than normalization was applied.


PS: Merry xmas everyone!


Sure, the original SID sounds (a weee bit) better, but almost no-one has it connected to a CPC ;-)