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General Category => Emulators => Topic started by: PhilZeVibe on 22:24, 15 February 12

Title: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: PhilZeVibe on 22:24, 15 February 12
Here is something I discovered while typing JavaCPC on Google...

"Keeping Emulation Environments Portable" (KEEP) is a project financed by the European Union. It started in February 2009 and will end in March 2012.
It's aim is basically to develop a software called "Emulation Framework".
But don't be abused by the "framework" term. It seems that all those guys are doing is just developing yet another emulator front-end.

So, this front-end supports 7 emulators: Dioscuri, Qemu, VICE, UAE, BeebEm, JavaCPC, Thomson.

Well, you know, it's quite complex to make a front-end in Java. It's an EU "research" project after all.
So the budget is 3M€ (yep... 3.000.000€ !!!)

And of course, as this project is financed by the European Union and other public organisms, we are in fact all paying for it.

Now you're wondering if I'm joking... So here are some good links to read:
The KEEP Project website: KEEP Website (http://www.keep-project.eu/)
The "Emulation Framework": Emulation Framework [EF] (http://emuframework.sourceforge.net/)

Some screenshots of what cost us 3.000.000€!  >:(
(http://sourceforge.net/projects/emuframework/screenshots/307515) (http://sourceforge.net/projects/emuframework/screenshots/307515)

(http://sourceforge.net/projects/emuframework/screenshots/307513) (http://sourceforge.net/projects/emuframework/screenshots/307513)
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: beaker on 23:34, 15 February 12
lol, I don't know if that tops Donkeypedia from a few years back but comes damn close.  ;D
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: MaV on 23:45, 15 February 12
Wow, just wow!

Apparently boot-licking and kissing certain people's rings ( (c) tastefulmrship ;) ) can take you a long way.

Imagine the resources you would have at hand for three years! (and look at what they did with it.)
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: TFM on 02:17, 16 February 12
Well, you know, it's quite complex to make a front-end in Java. It's an EU "research" project after all.
So the budget is 3M€ (yep, that's 3.000.000€ !!!)

Well, that's quite tight! We got six times more for 4th generation sequencers due to Obamas stimulus package last year.
 
 
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: ralferoo on 13:14, 16 February 12
Seriously, this kind of project makes me insanely angry at the expenditure of vast amounts of money for no good reason.

It doesn't (seem to) contribute anything to the people who made the emulators and doesn't actually (seem to) provide any benefits over what was there before.

From a rough calculation, with 7 emulators on the list (most of which aren't Java based anyway), that's enough to pay each development for 5 developers each for 3 years. Given that that doesn't actually seem to be happening, where exactly does the money go?
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: MaV on 13:23, 16 February 12
Given that that doesn't actually seem to be happening, where exactly does the money go?
I have a vision of one or two villas in the mediterranean with an excellent view to the sea.
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: Devilmarkus on 14:34, 16 February 12
All I see here is a stupid GUI which is able to analyze some file formats and tell you which emulator you should use.
It also has the emulators embedded.
(On my PC the deprecated JavaCPC version does not even startup, because they used an old executable!!! They would better use the .JAR emulator instead!!!)

And fact: Dunno, who earns the tons of money, but I (and the others surely, too) did not earn any penny!
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: Bryce on 14:38, 16 February 12
Oh go on Markus, admit it... You're posting from a luxury yacht somewhere off the coast of France at the moment aren't you? :D

Bryce.
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: Devilmarkus on 14:45, 16 February 12
Sure, I owned the Costa Concordia...
While I read your posting, I had an "oops" with a reef and thats it!!! :(

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Oh go on Markus, admit it... You're posting from a luxury yacht somewhere off the coast of France at the moment aren't you? :D

Bryce.
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: deepfb on 15:28, 16 February 12
According to KEEP's webpage, the beneficiaries of their funds are institutions such the Koninklijke Bibliotheek, the University of Portsmouth or the Deutsche Nationalbibliothek. I am sure that there is people working there on something the EU can see, not only that frontend -I have worked for the EU, and they are as strict with the payment rules as we all want them to be on this issue :-)


Another beneficiary of KEEP funds is Vincent Joguin, and it seems he is involved within KEEP's board too. I think I have met his name before when looking for emulator tools, and a quick search tells that he is the author of FaST emulator and Disk2FDI utility. So it's not european officials having an expensive Brunello with the bellinas at that italian villa, but at least somebody who knows what an Atari ST is ;-D


Anyway, we will try to have Andreas Lange (director of the Computerspiele Museum of Berlin) as a guest speaker at RetroMadrid, next May. We want him to explain KEEP projects (I think he was a kind of 'curator' of the organization some time ago), and, of course, how did  he managed to establish the Computerspiele Museum :-). I met him three years ago when he was acting as speaker in a lecture on videogames as cultural goods. He explained what KEEP is and the then current projects of the organization: they had produced a lot of papers on how the emulation and preservation activities should be led so the industry wouldn't complain, i.e. a manual of good practices to emulate and create software archives so the people behind them wouldn't be sued for copyright infringements. In order to produce those papers they had contacted a bunch of emulator authors and the European Games Developer Federation, and they had published the results at their webpage.


As matter of fact, I asked him to come back to explain everything further, and he said he couldn't afford that since he will be paying everything himself and he was not rich enough to come to Madrid every year. So the amount of KEEP's budget seems abusive and insulting, although they think it's not legitimate to pay 200 euro (the amount of money that RetroMadrid organizers will be paying for Lange's trip and accommodation) to have one of their members showing their work here ;-)
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: Gryzor on 18:31, 17 February 12
You. Must. Be. Fucking. Kidding me. We're sure it's not 3.000,000 (depending on your notation)?
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: PhilZeVibe on 18:47, 17 February 12
If only...

I slightly underestimated how much this program cost actually.
As deepfb said, that project is not entirely financed by the European Union. Other institutions (national libraries, associations, university...) have also participated in it.

Here is the precise total budget of this program:
Total cost: EUR 3 973 445
EU contribution: EUR 3 149 741

Source: http://cordis.europa.eu/projects/index.cfm?fuseaction=app.details&TXT=keep&LNG=en&REF=89496 (http://cordis.europa.eu/projects/index.cfm?fuseaction=app.details&TXT=keep&LNG=en&REF=89496)
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: Gryzor on 19:25, 17 February 12
4 million euros. 4. MILLION. Wtf, how long would it take ONE average programmer to come up with it? And, comparatively, what would, say, WinAPE be worth?
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: PhilZeVibe on 20:08, 17 February 12
My guess is that a sub-average intern student can produce this front-end in a few months.
And that would be a lazy internship.

WinAPE is a 50x more complex project, or more... So I let you do the maths  ;D
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: remax on 00:10, 18 February 12
http://dknute.livejournal.com/ (http://dknute.livejournal.com/)
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: PhilZeVibe on 01:47, 18 February 12
As a side note, if any EU official comes by and reads here, I hereby offer my service for the next EU framework programme.

I can quickly deliver quality emulation in Javascript of any ancient platforms you might like.
You can look at the work I've already done here: http://cpcbox.com (http://cpcbox.com)

I think it would be a perfect match in regards to the KEEP program objectives.
And I'm much cheaper than 4M€ too.

So just drop a mail to admin@cpcbox.com so we discuss it and engage in a fruitful collaboration :)
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: TFM on 01:40, 20 February 12
A princess waits until the knight finds her...  :-*
 
But life is not a ferry tale...  :P
 
Wake up and get in contact with them by yourself!!!  :laugh:
 
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: Executioner on 08:20, 20 February 12
As a side note, if any EU official comes by and reads here, I hereby offer my service for the next EU framework programme.

Me too.. If they want an emulation platform for any platform in Java, C, C++, Pascal or any other language, I'm happy to learn it if the money is that good!
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: Gryzor on 09:39, 20 February 12
Me too.. If they want an emulation platform for any platform in Java, C, C++, Pascal or any other language, I'm happy to learn it if the money is that good!



So you wouldn't do it for a measly €1m? :D
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: Executioner on 09:51, 20 February 12
So you wouldn't do it for a measly €1m? :D

That'd just about cover me full time for a year :)
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: Bryce on 12:46, 20 February 12
For €4.000.000 I'll build them the computers they want so they won't need an emulator. :)

Bryce.
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: MacDeath on 20:30, 23 February 12
*Seriously what is it supposed to be or do ?

I think it's just a cover for some secret European agency with a secret agenda and so on.



But as a "European retro-computer citizen" I don't like to see our money on "great projects" but with such shitty execution.

The guy who shat this should be in jail like all those governments who turned the banks' debt into a public debt...

Oh, and said banker too.



And Allan Sugar, because we know he stole us money by no putting 128K on all the CPC...


And Sir Clive because his Speccy was the plague that infected our beloved Amstrads and because no mortal man should have such a hot slutty wife and get away with it (be it with the clivemobile, this poor excuse of an electric vehicle...).



I can't believe the elected poeples and Technocrat stil ldon't know squat shit about computers.


In france we had this "plan informatique pour tous" that brough the awesomness of Thomson 8bit computer unto the World...

Those public-money sinks could'nt even just be as good as a simple CPC...
Were they clever they should have got a license by Amstrad to build CPC compatible models instead...

We would have had some Amstrad PLUS with mouse and 256K RAM and in built 3"1/2 720k floppies.
as soon as 1986... (Imagine, a proper "Amstrad TO8PLUS"... )
 ;D



Just look at elected peoples what do we have ?

"Political Science" (=science ?), Medecine Doctors (ok, why not, so they are good at inserting suppositories...) , Lawyers (= professionnal liar and law abusers), Economists (=lobbyists), and "professionnal politician" (some sort of Travelling salesman mod actually)...


But are there any Engineer ?
Any professionnal programmer ?
Computing science eminancies ?

Nope...
But to design a law system is actually closer to programming than anything else.


But hey, to design good law system is not what needed to be a politician, you just need to be "overly social" and somewhat corrupted...
 
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: Gryzor on 19:32, 27 February 12
Erm... I hold a B.Sc. Econ, and am no lobbyist :D


Back on topic...
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: robcfg on 19:49, 27 February 12
By the way, did we mention that we're having Andreas Lange as guest in RetroMadrid? Maybe we can kidnap him and ask for a million or two  ;D
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: Gryzor on 20:52, 27 February 12
Hey, what do you think the Wiki should be worth in EU context? :D
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: Devilmarkus on 12:14, 24 July 13
Just a little push:

I contacted the authors of the Emulation Framework and asked:

Quote
Hello,
As I read about the KEEP Project and the financial amount of 3.000.000€ I wish to ask, where is my part of the financial help?

I am the developer and coder of JavaCPC but didnt see any cent yet.

Is that right, that people earn money with third party tools, or will the money be payed out?

Regards,
Markus Hohmann

Will wait for reply.... ;)
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: Morn on 13:21, 24 July 13
And I wouldn't be surprised if their grandiose long-term project goal, the KEEP Virtual Machine (KVM), will turn out to be just a minimally rebranded version of MESS. For 3 megabucks, I'd even download the MESS source for them and run the required find-and-replace. Pretty nice pay for about five minutes of work...  :D
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: TFM on 20:14, 24 July 13
Look at this Morn is back, well that was quite a while ago.
 
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: Morn on 15:06, 25 July 13
Hi TFM! Yes, it's simply too hot outside to do anything and CPC-Power is back (yay!), so this is a good time to check out the latest emulator versions and try out some new games and systems. And play every port of Out Run that ever existed.  :D

On the programming side, I'd love to find a nice CPC solution for Audio frequency generator - Rosetta Code (http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Audio_frequency_generator) — not with a series of tones like the Speccy version but with a continuous tone. It looks like this can only be done with assembly though. As far as I see the firmware has no function for modifying e.g. the pitch of the currently playing tone. Unfortunately the excellent Grimware site does not seem to have a page about the AY yet.  :(
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: arnoldemu on 15:17, 25 July 13
Hi TFM! Yes, it's simply too hot outside to do anything and CPC-Power is back (yay!), so this is a good time to check out the latest emulator versions and try out some new games and systems. And play every port of Out Run that ever existed.  :D

On the programming side, I'd love to find a nice CPC solution for Audio frequency generator - Rosetta Code (http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Audio_frequency_generator) — not with a series of tones like the Speccy version but with a continuous tone. It looks like this can only be done with assembly though. As far as I see the firmware has no function for modifying e.g. the pitch of the currently playing tone. Unfortunately the excellent Grimware site does not seem to have a page about the AY yet.  :(
BASIC can't do it???
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: Bryce on 15:52, 25 July 13
Yes, it's simply too hot outside to do anything

Have you tried sitting in a Biergarten and continuously pouring cold beer down your throat? Works fine for me in these temperatures :)

Bryce.
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: TFM on 18:15, 25 July 13
Sounds really great, but after some hours it's really hard to get up again  ;)
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: Morn on 11:27, 26 July 13
BASIC can't do it???

As far as I see the firmware functions all work on a queue basis: Once a sound is entered in the queue, there is no way to change it from BASIC. So one can do what the Speccy version does, fake it with many short tones, but that is not what the RC problem description specifies.

Have you tried sitting in a Biergarten and continuously pouring cold beer down your throat? Works fine for me in these temperatures :)

Or combine the two activities even. Some frantic retrogaming is probably a great way to burn all those calories and thereby prevent beer belly.

To the beer mobile, Robin!  :D
Title: Re: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!
Post by: Gryzor on 11:13, 30 July 13
Can someone explain the Rosetta thing to me? I don't get it...