Hello guys, just a heads-up:
Carnivac (or: the God) has released version 1.1 of CPC (or: Cosmic Prison Commando - see what he did there? :D ),the CPC-looking PC game. REALLY worth a look!!!
http://carnivacgames.blogspot.com/2009/07/cpc-demo-11-topic.html
Cool news!
Just tried the demo.
Works fine on my system.
Now waiting for CPC version, too ::)
A great graphist , a God of the wide pixel !
I hope he'll found a programmer good as him to write a CPC version
I love the ingame tune, that remind me my young age when i first watched the intros of the TB crackers :'(
I had once asked him what specs he had imposed unto himself to make it CPC-like, it was an interesting read, but I doubt it can be done on a CPC....
Why not ? for sure some things would have to be stripped but the main seems possible, we had great games in this style on CPC like the Turricans.
Well, yes, a port would be possible, but of course not 100% accurate... too ambitious I would think.
But I love this game :)
My CPC want it ! ;D
Quote from: fano on 13:17, 29 July 09
My CPC want it ! ;D
I've played the game, It'd have to be a 128k only game, then It'd probably be possible. Even with a decent fullish screen.
A port to the CPC is not the problem. If you do it on the CPC Plus, you can port it with 99.7%.
If you want to use the CPC old generation, the scrolling would be a problem, so if you can live with a screen scrolling in eight directions only, then a port is still no problem.
If you want to have additonally overscan (using 32 KB screen memory) then the CPC is short before reaching its limits. But its still doable.
However, personally I think that 128 KB will not be enought. OK, you can compress a lot of data, but this would stall the game.
C.P.C on the CPC would be one of the best games ever made. On the PC with all the power, all the colors, all the sound... well, thats a different starting point. It will be much harder to do it on a CPC, but it is possible, no question.
Cheers,
TFM
If it would be possible, in my opinion one shouldn't even stick to the 128k limit - if such a wonder is ever possible, then go ahead and use the whole range - 256, even 512k. It'd be worth it, even only being able to run it in an emulator... But that's just my opinion :)
Problem is if you use more than 128K, you can not run it on a 'stock' machine.
I really like the cross-dev (so comfortable !) but my aim is to write code for real 'stock' CPC/+, i think it is not very interesting to write code that will run only on extented machines & emulators.
It is a bit like Tribute to Sister that is a great project but will work only w/ a CPC with FOS so with a ROM box, that reduces a lot project audience (sadly i can run it only in an emulator :( )
Other side, that would be interesting to devellop that in a cartbridge, but we do not know how to create new cartbridges for now :s
Anyway, i'm not sure Carn would like to see his work on a CPC+.
I see your point, but let me put it this way: if the only way to do something like that is to take advantage of all the modern technology, then by all means do it...
Quote from: fano on 07:25, 13 September 09
Problem is if you use more than 128K, you can not run it on a 'stock' machine.
I really like the cross-dev (so comfortable !) but my aim is to write code for real 'stock' CPC/+, i think it is not very interesting to write code that will run only on extented machines & emulators.
It is a bit like Tribute to Sister that is a great project but will work only w/ a CPC with FOS so with a ROM box, that reduces a lot project audience (sadly i can run it only in an emulator :( )
Other side, that would be interesting to devellop that in a cartbridge, but we do not know how to create new cartbridges for now :s
Anyway, i'm not sure Carn would like to see his work on a CPC+.
I fully support your opinion!!!!!
Emulators are ok but the most important thing is to "admire" a production in the real machine!!!!
I do not have a problem with emulators (they help you a lot with development and maybe to work when you are somewhere with no CPC) but you miss the real action!!!!
So fano, do whatever you want, as long as it is for the real loved machine :)
we speak,
voxfreax
ps:@Gryzor: yes but no! :) I fully support to take advantage of all the technology developed but for the original standards of CPC!!!!
Common answer.... ;-)
- RAM: Let me take a look at the number of different sprites (and sprite phases) and at the amount of background graphic:160 KB - better 192 KB - is needed. Else (with 128 KB) you can crunch GFX data, but it would make the game unaceptable slow.
- The idea with the cartridge is good. It's not hard to create it. There is also software, that can create Cartridges (the file!) for you (from your binaries). The problem is here that it will be hard to get the ACID chips (see CPC Wiki) to produce the cartridges.
- About CPC/Emulators: Yes, the CPC itself is the most impotant. What ever we do it shall look good at the real CPC. However, today most of the CPC freaks have a RAM and a ROM expansion, f.e. SF2 or what ever. Just get it from ebay. I see absolute no need to work with the bare 128 KB 6128 skeleton. That would be the same if I throw my modern laptop away and go back to the first laptop ever built with no expansion. If we have standart extensions for the CPC like RAM and ROM then in gods name USE THEM! And if you really want the machine from the stock, then please use the CPC464 with tape and green screen and nothing else, this would be true purism ;-)
And now have a good day,
TFM
Quote from: TFM/FS on 17:08, 14 September 09
- RAM: Let me take a look at the number of different sprites (and sprite phases) and at the amount of background graphic:160 KB - better 192 KB - is needed. Else (with 128 KB) you can crunch GFX data, but it would make the game unaceptable slow.
As i said before, some cutdown would be done to run on a 128K machine.If i have to choose between cutting down the game or upgrade the machine (PC syndrom), i'll choose first else the game will stays on PC where it runs perfectly.
Quote from: TFM/FS on 17:08, 14 September 09
- The idea with the cartridge is good. It's not hard to create it. There is also software, that can create Cartridges (the file!) for you (from your binaries). The problem is here that it will be hard to get the ACID chips (see CPC Wiki) to produce the cartridges.
For sure the problem is not creating cartridge file (and as i saw, that should be a major advantage for this game) , it is ACID, since we are not able to re-create some, we are condamned to cannibalize old cartriges and we take the risk to see our work reconditionned in an old cartridge on Ebay (/me vomits)
Quote from: TFM/FS on 17:08, 14 September 09And if you really want the machine from the stock, then please use the CPC464 with tape and green screen and nothing else, this would be true purism ;-)
I am far to be a purist but your point is caricatural.464,664,6128,464+,6128+ and gx4000 are stock machines, 6128 is not a mod of the 464.As opposite,6128 with ROM/RAM extensions is a mod of a 6128.
From this pow, we could say we'll create a GFX card for CPC w/ hard sprites,layers,scrolls,sound system etc and produce games only for this type of hardware, and optionnaly recreate PCs (/me vomits twice ).
About users , i am not sure the audience of this type of programs (games) is equipped with this type of extensions (@Gryzor , a poll about this should be interesting, no ?).For me, one of the main interest (except sentimental) to create on CPC is to have a fixed configuration (in opposite to PC where you have to deal w/ various OS, infamous drivers and exotic hardware).
Quote from: TFM/FS on 17:08, 14 September 09
And now have a good day,
TFM
You too ;) For French guys, this Wednesday will be Christmas (maybe Thursday) ;D
PS:Apologies for writting Engrish
Thanks for the long answer, however ...
- ACID, right, they are hard to get. I know one source, and they will sell "all or nohing", which means you get too much chips for too much money.
- I prefer to have better software insteasd of saving some small money for hardware extensions.
- If you call that point caricatural then you may be really wrong. In the 80ies I could buy a CPC6128 with Dobbertin-RAM expansion and EPROM-expansion and even a 20 MB hard-disc at once. That is what I call stock machine, but this doesn't matter, because:
- THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON WHY I SHOULD ONLY USE STOCK MACHINES, that's as stupid as cut my own toe. If I can use advanced expansions, I will do it, because anything else would have no logical reason. Or do you use your old Citroen when you have already your new BMW at home? (Ok, may not be the best example, but you know what I mean).
- RAM and ROM expansions are nothing special for the CPC, it's pure mainstream, everybody (nearly) uses them today, we're not talking about fantasy-gfx-cards or whatever. So RAM and ROM expansions are a PART of the fixed configuration today!
- A poll would be a nice idea, we had one before at the FutureOS ML, so I know what I'm talking about.
- However no need for a flamewar here, you can do what you want and I do the same. Finally others will decide what's more accepted.
Bye,
TFM / FS
Quote from: fano on 05:32, 15 September 09
As i said before, some cutdown would be done to run on a 128K machine.If i have to choose between cutting down the game or upgrade the machine (PC syndrom), i'll choose first else the game will stays on PC where it runs perfectly.
For sure the problem is not creating cartridge file (and as i saw, that should be a major advantage for this game) , it is ACID, since we are not able to re-create some, we are condamned to cannibalize old cartriges and we take the risk to see our work reconditionned in an old cartridge on Ebay (/me vomits)
I am far to be a purist but your point is caricatural.464,664,6128,464+,6128+ and gx4000 are stock machines, 6128 is not a mod of the 464.As opposite,6128 with ROM/RAM extensions is a mod of a 6128.
From this pow, we could say we'll create a GFX card for CPC w/ hard sprites,layers,scrolls,sound system etc and produce games only for this type of hardware, and optionnaly recreate PCs (/me vomits twice ).
About users , i am not sure the audience of this type of programs (games) is equipped with this type of extensions (@Gryzor , a poll about this should be interesting, no ?).For me, one of the main interest (except sentimental) to create on CPC is to have a fixed configuration (in opposite to PC where you have to deal w/ various OS, infamous drivers and exotic hardware).
You too ;) For French guys, this Wednesday will be Christmas (maybe Thursday) ;D
PS:Apologies for writting Engrish
Quote from: TFM/FS on 20:01, 15 September 09- However no need for a flamewar here, you can do what you want and I do the same. Finally others will decide what's more accepted.
Huh??? what about flamewar ?
I supposed we are adults enough to be able to discuss , maybe with strenght and conviction, about our respectives arguments.Please don't be touchy, my post was not an attack, just my point about this subject and some remarks were only second degree.
Anyway, this discussion is closed and we're back on the original topic ;)
I said it before, and I'll say ti again: IF it's a question of either having the game for a souped-up machine or not having at all, then I don't care if I need extra bits of hardware to run it.
Besides, look at the other machines out there - they all have games released for modded versions... it'd be fun!
Funny, there are 2 philosophy on the matter.
--pure CPC untouched by any peripheral/extension.
--hardwares techies with their custom 4MB card...
I always believed Amstrad was cheap on RAM...
Proper Amstrad Plus range (and GX4000) would have needed 256 KO minimum to me.
On the other hand, the cartridge solution may bring some agument, yet ACID is still not properly analised.
A good old coomon cart like GX4000's burnin' rubber may be customised as a multi-EEprom support quite easily...
Then this add easily 64Ko of data to ease the Amstrad...maybe more ?
I think Plus games should use this more often : Game on Cartridge+Disc.
The Cartridge would include a "loader" with only strict necessary to run Disk drive and common features, the rest of the 128Ko would then include extra Datas so the mundane 6128+ would storage 48Ko+64Ko+ (128Ko-the pseudo OS/launcher)
Also it would be great if we could get a good analisis of the ACIP chip...some companies do it.
But it costs money...
we should have a look for how much it would cost, then many raise some funds... and get the company to do it and supply it with an Amstrad+ (or simply GX 4000) and 1-2 cartiridge to analyse.
And a good HowTo page about customising Plus cartirdge into multiEEprom slot...
Quote from: MacDeath on 06:15, 21 October 09
Funny, there are 2 philosophy on the matter.
--pure CPC untouched by any peripheral/extension.
--hardwares techies with their custom 4MB card...
I always believed Amstrad was cheap on RAM...
On the other hand, the cartridge solution may bring some agument, yet ACID is still not properly analised.
My thoughts:
I like to see games running on original hardware, and for real nostalgia loading from tape. But this is *my* preference. To be honest, I think do as you want, if you want to use more ram then do it, it is more important to get games out there I think.
Making a cartridge game would be fun I think, but something I do not have time for yet, my personal choice would be cartridge only and not to use cartridge AND disc/tape. And for cartridge I would make it 64k compatible so it could be run on a real GX4000 if necessary, but again this is *my* choice.
I think if TFM wants to make stuff using harddrives and 2MB ram and FutureOS then why not? That is his choice. So TFM please continue.
Analysis of the ACID is already in progress (Spanish language forum). If anybody can help, then please post there:
http://amstradcpc.mforos.com/305097/7723493-que-hace-exactamente-el-chip-acid-de-los-cartuchos/
For sure cartridge would too a solution to keep compatibility w/ 64K machine.More , in terms of program design it would be easier to work w/ ASIC (yes i need to stop dreaming lol )
Have you an idea of the cost of the analysis of the IC ?
Quote from: arnoldemu on 09:55, 21 October 09
Analysis of the ACID is already in progress (Spanish language forum). If anybody can help, then please post there:
http://amstradcpc.mforos.com/305097/7723493-que-hace-exactamente-el-chip-acid-de-los-cartuchos/
Shame i don't speak Spanish :-\
a while back there was a preview of this one
showing that actually it was possible to port it to a real cpc
is any of the scene members working on it?
Quote from: spybro on 15:27, 24 January 11
a while back there was a preview of this one
showing that actually it was possible to port it to a real cpc
is any of the scene members working on it?
I was thinking about it but I didn't start it.
Quote from: arnoldemu on 15:53, 24 January 11
I was thinking about it but I didn't start it.
any chance of starting it?
it would be awesome to have this title in our cpc
Quote from: spybro on 17:47, 24 January 11
any chance of starting it?
it would be awesome to have this title in our cpc
Yes, right, would be nice to have a 1:1 conversion for the CPC. But nevertheless, this game is nothing else than a PC game ... and there are a lot of PC games, that would be nice to have on a CPC.
I thought for a while about the possibility of a 1:1 conversion (see abouve), yes doable. But I need my time for own projects. Let the original coder of the game decide if he want's to have a CPC conversion.
Quote from: arnoldemu on 15:53, 24 January 11
I was thinking about it but I didn't start it.
I don't have the time and I already have 1 game project to finish.
I also want to code the beat em up that sigh is doing the graphics for.
So we'll see after this.
Hey guys,
sorry for bumping this topic up. I've only just seen it myself as I was specifically searching to see if anyone had any ideas on how it could actually become a true CPC game. I got quite busy in non-computer life stuff since my health problems went away (they were the main reason I spent so much time pixelling and stuff) but I still play and enjoy my lil demo and after seeing some of the superb new CPC games and demos it got me more curious to see if people knew if this game would be possible to develop on an actual CPC. I got my little 'retro corner' desk set up in the back room with my Amstrad CPC 464 (and Amiga 1200 but that's nothing to do with this) and have been enjoying some of my old faves again (by the way I still find it impressive that my 1984 CPC is still working in perfect condition when many other computers and consoles I've owned have broken down).
Anyways I've read the posts here. I am not an Amstrad CPC coder, I'm just a CPC gamer. I do not know the true limitations of the machine or any of the tricks people have discovered over the years to make it do things not originally thought possible. When making this game originally all I wanted to re-enforce was that the original CPC's colour and resolution limitations weren't any problem for creating a colourful and bold looking action game. Some people I've debated this all seem to think the CPC had nothing but bad Spectrum ports and weren't capable of anything more, seemingly forgetting it had gloriously colourful well done graphics in games such as Turrican II (which I still say looks better than the C64 version even just due to the fact the CPC has a far more attractive palette rather than the drab low-saturated muddy colors of the C64), Dan Dare 3, Rick Dangerous 2 and Astro Marine Corps. As I couldn't know the actual limits regarding scrolling and memory usage and such I just made the game just the way I felt to, in more of a homage to my happy memories of CPC action games rather than a total realistically doable game for the CPC. However it was also done to express my own enjoyment at creating CPC graphics and I was always willing to collaborate with anyone who wanted to take the graphics and get a version of it running on real CPC hardware and just let me know if they needed any changes done to the graphics to get things working better. I will admit that my enthusiasm for the project got hurt a great deal when a user on a european CPC forum took it upon himself to rip all the graphics out of the demo and supplied them right there on the forum to anybody without my permission which annoyed me greatly (as it also revealed some, at the time, unused sprites and secrets I didn't want revealed). I'm not even saying the level layout has to be exactly the same either and we could discuss new gameplay features to make it a bit more unique than just a Turrican-lite clone but of course within the boundaries of the genre and limitations of the CPC.
As it was mentioned in one post I have no real interest in the CPC+ range (nor super upgraded CPCs or virtual ones simulated by emulators). To me they just weren't the same thing and the extra colors just make them look like blockier Amiga graphics to me and, while I love the Amiga too I felt the CPC+ games just lacked the graphical charm of the original CPC's colour palette. What does interest me about the CPC+ is any extra power that can be used to improve the running of a regular CPC game for extra scrolling smoothness for example but the game for me must still be able to run on a regular CPC to begin with.
By the way TFM/FS mentions that most CPC users have RAM and ROM expansions? I don't. If someone could direct me to a place I can buy a 64k expansion for my 464 to upgrade it to 128k I'd be pretty happy with that (and I'm sure a few more of my favourite CPC games would be improved even with the addition of music I think some have for 128k). How much do they cost these days anyways?
Anyways I'm glad that some of you enjoy the demo :)
Sorry if some of that didn't make a lot of sense. Just got in from a long session at the outdoor gym and I'm a bit knackered but wanted to type all this in while I felt strongly about it :)
Hello mate,
Glad to hear you're feeling better!
I think it'd be an extremely ambitious project to bring to the CPC, actually, but here's keeping fingers crossed...
As for the other issue, well, I don't know the story, but maybe people didn't think they were doing something wrong by ripping and 'stealing' the gfx - did you try to tell them?
All in all, welcome back :)
Quote from: Gryzor on 15:22, 15 August 11
I think it'd be an extremely ambitious project to bring to the CPC, actually, but here's keeping fingers crossed...
Well I think going by games I've played on CPC (even on my standard 464) it could be done in some form even if cuts had to be made it could still become a playable and graphically appealing game CPC action game.
Quotebut maybe people didn't think they were doing something wrong by ripping and 'stealing' the gfx - did you try to tell them?
I can't even remember if I posted or if I was so angry I chose not to and rather tried to forget about it for a while rather than leaving an expletive-laden angry message. Quite frankly if they thought there was nothing wrong with it then they're idiots. It's bad enough ripping from commercial games but ripping from another retro game enthusiast's non-profit personal project in development and just laying it out all there for download by anyone felt like a huge crap on my long hours of working on it all and it made me distrust gamers like that a lot. Could have at least asked my permission first (which I would have denied unless I'd completed the project or at least considered it abandoned and then been more than happy to share the resources).
Hi, I just tested the game...
That's pretty solid.
From what I noted :
=Multiscroll "paralax" (background moving differently than foreground) would be quite difficult to implement as it is.
there are quite few exemple of this done on original CPC.
From memory i would just say that AMC was on of the notable if not only exemple.
And to perform this AMC actually wasn't built on smotth sprites and scrolls but Attributes/character based engine.
Like R-Type on CPC/speccy and so on.
This means that your sprites and tiles are Character based (in mode0 this is 4x8 pxiels) non masked...
So you have to design well according to this to remove the unmasked feeling (just see the SpaceGun topic)
=Controls :
the jump button + fire button is so console and arcade, but clearly not CPC spirit.
on CPC to jump you actually just went UP.
it's a bit sad but when you play with arrows keys, it is quite easier to do it this way too.
I would suggest the second button being used by alternative fire instead of Jump.
Quotebut maybe people didn't think they were doing something wrong by ripping and 'stealing' the gfx - did you try to tell them?
The problem is that we tend to believe all thing CPC related is abandonware, even modern stufffs.
Also piracy was a great feature of this era computers that console hadn't, which staying in our culture.
QuoteAs it was mentioned in one post I have no real interest in the CPC+ range (nor super upgraded CPCs or virtual ones simulated by emulators). To me they just weren't the same thing and the extra colors just make them look like blockier Amiga graphics to me and, while I love the Amiga too I felt the CPC+ games just lacked the graphical charm of the original CPC's colour palette. What does interest me about the CPC+ is any extra power that can be used to improve the running of a regular CPC game for extra scrolling smoothness for example but the game for me must still be able to run on a regular CPC to begin with.
I agrre.
To port straight Amiga/Atari ST palettes simply do not compute with blocky 160x200 resolution in games.
While the 16bit could manage this palette well through fine ditherings, Amstrad 8 bit could not and got to stick to more cartoonisdh feeling.
And many graphician could not choose colours wisely from the 4096...
When I did the remake of RickDangerous on PLUS, I wanted to stick to the CPC old feeling.
And it works better than the full grey of 16bit versions IMO.
If CPC old had access to a proper 320x200x16 mode, I think the 27c palette wouldn't be considered as badly as it is often.
The only thing I think PLUS add is that there are more greys and oranges and brown...
But considering the resolution and number of colour available, you just got to stick to CPC way of paletting.
Hell a simple 512palette could have been quite suffisant on PLUS, actually .
But hey, good for Demomakers.
So yeah, the PLUS is to be considered a CPC with only a few extra colours actually to be used (2 additionnal grey don't hurt) and smooth Scrollings..
Also easier raster/mode changes interrupts, as those were already often used on CPC, now this wastes a bit less CPC to get the HUD in another mode/palertte.
Extra Sound possibilities and the too few sprites are to be added as extra special effects (Bonus sprites, explosions)... nothing more.
But my point is : what the need for 4096 colours when you can display only 4 on the screen (Mode1 per exemple) ?
Quote from: MacDeath on 17:18, 15 August 11
=Controls :
the jump button + fire button is so console and arcade, but clearly not CPC spirit.
Originally up was jump and was intended for a real CPC version with Jump being available as a seperate button if a 2 button joystick/pad was in use. I just had it more console like in the demo because in the time since owning my CPC I've gotten to used to my NES/SNES/PS1/PS2/PSP/PS3 games of using the bottom fire button (on a four button layout so common these days) as jump and the one to the left as shoot.
By the way I've just seen the video of the R-Type remake. I remember getting an email about it sometime ago but I was unable to help but remembering I figured these guys weren't gonna need my help from early shots. And I was right, it looks AMAZING. Great work on that. Also been watching that Batman Forever demo thing and again I'm impressed what people have been doing with the CPC.
Would it be possible to add some redine keys feature or different control configs then ? ;)
Quote from: MacDeath on 18:26, 15 August 11
Would it be possible to add some redine keys feature or different control configs then ? ;)
The control code was written to make that easy enough to change if it wasn't for the fact I find menu systems (especially those that require visual feedback upon input such as redefining keys) so damn tedious to do. But I will get around to it (even if it's in one of my other projects and then I can copy paste it into that one, is why I build things off the same general code and use the same variable names between projects)
Hi Carnivac,
Stickman here!!! Nice to see you back on this site. I always loved your demo and it would be great to see it finished. The CPC+ also has the added bonus of the 2 button joypad, scrolling and sound that takes less cpu strain, so you could do a plus and a regular cpc version.
Quote from: sigh on 22:46, 15 August 11
Hi Carnivac,
Stickman here!!! Nice to see you back on this site. I always loved your demo and it would be great to see it finished. The CPC+ also has the added bonus of the 2 button joypad, scrolling and sound that takes less cpu strain, so you could do a plus and a regular cpc version.
I was wondering if you were about here somewhere.
Yeah I'd rather just focus on a regular CPC version to begin with. To be honest I'm thinking I need to join in with something much smaller and easier to get a better feel of being part of a real CPC game development. Like if anyone wants to do a simple flick screen platformer or something and I could do some Mode 0 graphics for it or even a bit more advanced like that Knight N Grail that came out on C64 a couple years back. Hell, I dunno..
@carnivac
there was a port preview of c.p.c
but i cannot seem to find it
judging from that preview it was obvious that it can be done
judging from the impact of the demo you published it should be ported
it has all the elements to become one of the best platform/shoot em up games on cpc
i would personally prefer a cpc+ port though
Any news of this game ... ? :o
:-X you cast necrobump. :o
The game changed significantly since then to something that could work better on a CPC.
It's now a slower paced exploration flick-screen sorta dealy here but still with plenty platform shooting to be done. Have made some good progress on the PC runner version in the past year and will post more updates to the proper game topic (which I don't think this one is...I swear there was a more recent one but I haven't time to look).
Prob best to close this topic though as it reflects to a game that's only similar in name and some basics. :P
Merry christmas and thanks for the interest. :)
Quote from: Carnivius on 10:04, 25 December 17
:-X you cast necrobump. :o
The game changed significantly since then to something that could work better on a CPC.
It's now a slower paced exploration flick-screen sorta dealy here but still with plenty platform shooting to be done. Have made some good progress on the PC runner version in the past year and will post more updates to the proper game topic (which I don't think this one is...I swear there was a more recent one but I haven't time to look).
Prob best to close this topic though as it reflects to a game that's only similar in name and some basics. :P
Merry christmas and thanks for the interest. :)
Good to know that the game is still alive :) any idea of when it will be release it?