CPC Vs GX4000 - Comparison of the ported games.

[Novabug]

Part 2 is here! Featuring Klax, Mystical and Super Pinball Magic!

[Edited: Please remember to use the YouTube button to embed your video]

[MacDeath]

doesn't Mystical have Sounds in 128k version ?

Basically GX4000 games can be compaired to 128k version of games because the extra 64K were mostly used to store extra levels or sounds...

As the console was 64k RAM+128K ROM, all the extra RAM storage is actually done by the ROM.

Good video and includes games that can be considered somewhat decent.
Despite Klax and Mystical being quasi direct port (especially mystical) those were ones with nice CPC graphics and can be considered good CPC games to begin with.

Klax is a good CPc games so it is still good on GX4k... just that some slight changes could have been greater.

But those 2 games offered no advantages on Cartridge if you were a PLUS computer user.


Pinball Magic is well improved by the many colours, really looks like Atari ST version actually.
And is really one of the "Good" games on the GX4000, provided you like pinball games. 
(I do)



This give me one of the hint why those games faield ...

Don't have the quantities but if most/half cartridges users/potential custoemers had the PLUS computers this means that the CPC ports games would only hope to sell only the few console users...

Basically only the real PLUS games with great improvements or those not available on CPC could really hope to sell properly.
Provided they were "good" games.

this reduce the list to :
Robocop2
Navy Seals
Plotting
Panza Kick Boxing
Pang
Pinball Magic
the "phazer games" (but too rare)

the 2 Tennis games are quite improoved enough to be counted in, Burnin'Rubber was always had...
Switchblade can also be counted, despite the CPC version being as good gameplay wise...

Epyx word of sport is not that good.

So basically only less than 10 games could really hope to sell to the full market.

Because PLUS users would get the CPC versions for a far better offer or the game would be too bad to be purchased anyway.

Basically by 1990-1991.. you could purchase compilation with something like 2-3 GX4000 games plus others... for perhaps even less than a full Cartridge price.


nrj la compil'action vol. 2 &copy infogrames (1991)

NRJ La Compil'Action Vol. 2
Comprend 5 jeux :
1. "Crazy Cars II", Titus (1989)
2. "Mystical", Infogrames (1990)
3. "Pinball Magic", Loriciels (1989)
4. "Shufflepuck Cafe", Broderbund Software (1989)
5. "The Light Corridor", Infogrames (1990)

one two &copy titus (1990)
One Two
Comprend 4 jeux :
1. "Barbarian II"
2. "Crazy Cars II"
3. "Fire & Forget II"
4. "One"

stars six &copy titus (1991)
Stars Six
Comprends 6 jeux :
1. "Crazy Cars II"
2. "Dark Century"
3. "Fire & Forget II"
4. "Mystical"
5. "Off Shore Warrior"
6. "Swap"


And so on...

with only those exemples, someone with an Amstrad PLUS would be crazy to purchase those games on cartridge.

I guess the editors missed this point.

Could actually be interesting to see the number of cumpilations and which ones could allow to gather the most GX4000 games for the smaller price/best offer...

But basically to purchase perhaps 4-5 compilations could easily cover half the GX4000 library with many extra good games added in the loot.

[ukmarkh]

I thought Mystical was an alright game, I had that for the GX4000. Paid £29.99 for that, and £17.99 for Pang! Got loads of two player action out of the latter.   

[MacDeath]

Mystical was alright but also available for a very lower price on any CPC or PLUS computers...
(not even talking about about the free copy we all could have...)

But honnestly, GX4000 should have had  keyboard & cassette ports.

[andycadley]

As MacDeath says, while the GX only has 64K RAM it's much more on par with a 128K machine when it actually comes to playing cart games. That's because most of the stuff in memory on a 128 game really never changes, so can just as easily be read from the cart ROMs. It's why you see things like the extra backgrounds in Klax or the sounds in Mystical which would normally only have been present on a 128 machine. The 64K of RAM in the GX is actually surprisingly abundant compared to the amount usually found, a NES has about 5K in total (most of which is very special purpose).

As to the games, Klax was nice but difficult to justify as a cartridge purchase. It's also a real shame it didn't get the sampled speech that was on the Speccy 128 versions, because that would've really added to the polished feel. Mystical was a pretty dull game at the best of times and putting it on cartridge didn't really do anything except mean you could start it quicker and thus get bored quicker. Pinball Magic, though not my kind of thing, was a really nice example of what can be done with the Plus hardware, it's just a pity the screen dimensions don't really suit pinball.

[ukmarkh]

It's less about the 64K, it had 512K of storage on the cart. The hardware can read up to 32 slots, each slot has 16K banks. The GX4000 can handle 512k 

[Novabug]

As MacDeath says, while the GX only has 64K RAM it's much more on par with a 128K machine when it actually comes to playing cart games. That's because most of the stuff in memory on a 128 game really never changes, so can just as easily be read from the cart ROMs. It's why you see things like the extra backgrounds in Klax or the sounds in Mystical which would normally only have been present on a 128 machine. The 64K of RAM in the GX is actually surprisingly abundant compared to the amount usually found, a NES has about 5K in total (most of which is very special purpose).

As to the games, Klax was nice but difficult to justify as a cartridge purchase. It's also a real shame it didn't get the sampled speech that was on the Speccy 128 versions, because that would've really added to the polished feel. Mystical was a pretty dull game at the best of times and putting it on cartridge didn't really do anything except mean you could start it quicker and thus get bored quicker. Pinball Magic, though not my kind of thing, was a really nice example of what can be done with the Plus hardware, it's just a pity the screen dimensions don't really suit pinball.

I know this about the GX, and it still doesn't explain why other other games didn't at least match the cpc or improve. hehe. I put it down to programming laziness. Cheers

[Novabug]

doesn't Mystical have Sounds in 128k version ?

Basically GX4000 games can be compaired to 128k version of games because the extra 64K were mostly used to store extra levels or sounds...

As the console was 64k RAM+128K ROM, all the extra RAM storage is actually done by the ROM.

Good video and includes games that can be considered somewhat decent.

TBH, I haven't discovered that. (Mystical 128k) Shit, I hate overlooking things.


Yes, Re the GX memory, this is why I find it strange that some things are missing from the cpc verisons. If Klax game come out like that, why couldn't Barbarian? or Batman? Room must have been there for use. This is underlined by the better utilized games as you say. Plotting is a very underrated game for me.


Your feedback had been excellent OJ, I really appreciate it mate. I think I may to a series looking at the Plus/console only games after this, because they were on the whole rather good. Which is even more frustrating. lol

[MacDeath]

this would be a shorter serie of video then..


Like i said, even counting games available on both but with really some PLUS features and added value, there arre less than 10 games.


Well... may add the few homebrew actually...

Call &BD10'n'oeuf
Rick128+
Frogger
Puzznic also has a patched cartridge version (was a commercial game to begin with)
Jet Set Willy 2+

Also some french rare games (from the late era) would use PLUS features... they could get a serie.

Space gun (UK game)
Prehistorik 2 (cool but slow)
L'aigle D'or 2 (golden eagle 2)
Fluff
Best of the best (a remake of Panza CPC version with management of PLUS comptuers)
Bumpy's arcade fantasy
D-Day (or D.Day, a wargame)
Striker in the crypt of trogan (some game that sues the Switchblade engine... sort of)


And yeap, please always try to use the disk versions and the emulator on 128k RAM mode as well as 64k RAM mode.
The differences may not be huges, mostly it was one big loading (would store some levels in extra RAM) or extra sounds.

the cartridge version would sometimes have few less things because some "extras" may not take actual extra space :

= to change the palette doesn't add real weight...
= but some games would get close to no real changes from the CPC version concerning the way to use RAM this meant they could use the RAM the same way the 464k version would...
So sometimes they could need to get rid of a few sounds or some loading screen so it could fit the 128K ROM...
Or sometimes they could actually add a loading screen or some sounds because the game wouldn't use 128k of storage to begin with...

really subtle I guess.

[ukmarkh]

Can I just ask, what was wrong with Space Gun, back in the day I throughly enjoyed it?

[Novabug]

And yeap, please always try to use the disk versions and the emulator on 128k RAM mode as well as 64k RAM mode.
The differences may not be huges, mostly it was one big loading (would store some levels in extra RAM) or extra sounds.

the cartridge version would sometimes have few less things because some "extras" may not take actual extra space :

= to change the palette doesn't add real weight...
= but some games would get close to no real changes from the CPC version concerning the way to use RAM this meant they could use the RAM the same way the 464k version would...
So sometimes they could need to get rid of a few sounds or some loading screen so it could fit the 128K ROM...
Or sometimes they could actually add a loading screen or some sounds because the game wouldn't use 128k of storage to begin with...

really subtle I guess.

I always do. Been over soooo many different versions researching this. I tried out Mystical on 128k. No difference from 64k unless I have a crap Rom.


As for the arguments regarding the GX memory, I just don;t see how the devs couldn't see beyond these basis restrictions for other games, so why not the rest? I would like to have a look at the game coding to memory stats to be sure.

[MacDeath]

yeah, Mystical on CPC may not have sound... like Paperboy then.

Can I just ask, what was wrong with Space Gun, back in the day I throughly enjoyed it?

well, many unfinished aspects... would slow down a bit as well... and 1 bit per pixels speccy graphics tiles blurred into 1bit per pixel attributed Mode0 (for monsters... and sprites)

But some aspects were quite promising, such as to try to use the sprites for crosshair, the backgrounds and so on.

[Novabug]

Part 3 is now available to view. No Exit, Panza Kick Boxing and Wild Streets...

[dthrone]

It's less about the 64K, it had 512K of storage on the cart. The hardware can read up to 32 slots, each slot has 16K banks. The GX4000 can handle 512k 

The main problem with the GX4000 RAM capacity is that you have to share it with 16kb of screen (32kb for overscan or double buffering!), constantly paging in the ASIC RAM page, DMA lists (which can be compressed in the ROM but have to be unpacked into the RAM) and the stack.  Even in a 6128+ all this is still restricted to the first four RAM banks so in the majority of cases the extra 64kb is of little more use than 4 extra cart pages, obviously there are exceptions.  A little more breathing room would have been nice, particularly for the DMA lists and screen buffering but this would have meant fundamental changes to the design which there's no way Amstrad were going to do 

[ukmarkh]

1 bit per pixels speccy graphics tiles blurred into 1bit per pixel attributed Mode0 (for monsters... and sprites)

I thought 1 bit per pixels was un-heard of on the CPC? Well, I know there's that Space shooter, done in mode 2, but that's it.

[andycadley]

Even if you dedicate 32K of RAM to the display, you still have a whole 32K to play with and that's a *lot* for an 8-bit console (the NES had about 5K total, most of which was dedicated to it's display and sprites).

Coding for a console requires you to think a bit differently and take advantage of the ROM directly, it's why things like the SSCR are vital to writing good GX games - you need the flexibility to page ROM more effectively. With a well thought out memory map, you can make significant gains in address space (e.g you can put DMA lists under a paged in ROM and update them even while running code from that ROM) and things like the ASIC paging don't have to be much of an issue at all.

It's a different matter if you're trying to run from disk/tape on a 6128+/464+, where the machine limitations and paging arrangement really tends to get in the way, but that's really down to the fact the hardware was designed first and foremost around running cartridge titles from ROM.

[dthrone]

(e.g you can put DMA lists under a paged in ROM and update them even while running code from that ROM)

Just can't fit many samples   

[ukmarkh]

I personally believe that Burnin Rubber, Robocop 2 and Pang showed what could be done, if it would have been successful, games would of got even better, especially since game design in the 90's seemed to up things a notch.


In fact, with a little more thought to the level design and difficulty, Robocop 2 could have been one of the best 8-bit games ever. 

[andycadley]

Just can't fit many samples 

I think the assumption is you can expand them on the fly rather than necessarily storing full samples in RAM all at once.

[andycadley]

In fact, with a little more thought to the level design and difficulty, Robocop 2 could have been one of the best 8-bit games ever.

Indeed. It's by no means perfect, but it hints quite heavily at what the hardware was really capable of.

[Puresox]

It would be great to get at least one really fancy game on the Plus Console , that does all the Bells and whistles . It is pretty obvious that there is not a demand for new games on it . Although with it being a fashionable system to collect it may generate other programmers to develop for it ? Who Knows , wishful thinking . All I know is it does seem a very capable bit of kit,that could be one of the Kings of the 8-Bits?
Graphics are far more stunning than a NES and Master System , yes they are from an earlier age but still. Maybe the MSX Turbo is up there with it? or turbo graphics. 

[ukmarkh]

The NES and Master System graphics can't compare with the PLUS. No way! It's about time the Plus was included in all new game developments. 

[dthrone]

I think the assumption is you can expand them on the fly rather than necessarily storing full samples in RAM all at once.

Yep, life's never easy 

[MacDeath]

I thought 1 bit per pixels was un-heard of on the CPC? Well, I know there's that Space shooter, done in mode 2, but that's it.

Mode2 is 1bit per pixels...
but there is also "software" one bit per pixel...

Was often a sometimes clever way to gain space to code the Graphic datas in less bits per pixels, then as you have to copy them into the video bank/zone, you convert them into the actual video mode.

this allows for some things such as software palette swaps and so on.

was used quite often :

= speccy ports may use 1bpp graphics from the speccy and turn them into Mode1 : 2 colours only in the end...
but different thoings could get different colours : tiles would use different second colour than sprites.

= "C64 ports" : the graphics are in 2bpp (equivalent to mode1) but the game is in Mode0.
4 colours then.
This allows to get hands on some c64 graphics (those with wide pixels) with quite few modifications but some palette swaps.

Exemples ? Barbarian 1&2 's sprites are in pseudo mode1.
Antiriad : tiles and sprites are coded in 2bpp... the whole 16inks palette is divided in 4 palettes of 4 inks, with Black being used 4x times.
When graphics tiles or sprites are added into the video RAM zone, it would be converted into mode0 using some palette index so it would use only one of the 4 sub palettes.

Space gun's sprites are tiles (not even masked) in 1bpp that would then use such palette swap to reproduce speccy's attributed colours... ouch. not quite great looking in Mode0.
Would have worked betterly (at least graphically) if those tiles were 2bpp at least.


Also GX4000's cartridges can be 512k of ROM but those prodiced were actually only 128K because Amstrad only stockpiled 128k ROMs at low price.

128k pof datas is Ok for a CPC game, but not ok if you aim at graphically rich console madness.

CPC graphics can really be quite heavy for an 8bit system, unless you like to play in a stamp in 256x192 with freaking huge border.


BTW looking at the 3rd video Novabug.
Really nice series, was quite needed indeed. sadly half of those games are terribads...

very interesting and great involvement in the Amstrad community from you.


NoExit :
heard rumors that the game would crash with 6128PLUS or simply PLUS with any peripheral plugged...
This games tries to include some "Demoscene" styled things in the intro, and the graphics are actually quite good...
Very Atari ST like.

Sadly the gameplay is far from ... efficient. Quite a shame, could have been a fun fight game if provided with same animation and gameplay qualities as Barbarian on CPC.

Panza Kick boxing :
the game actually plays the same on both machine but really GX4000 has 16bit graphical makeup (despite wide pixels)
Basically one of the best GX4000 games actually and the only proper choice to get a proper fighting experience.
I guess this game soemwhat suffered slightly from having only 128K ROM, sounds are not perfects and some graphical patches in Hardsprites here and there could have smoothen the beauty.

Wild Street :
this game is bad to begin with.
at least Titus did some colour makeup but really not quite succeded into having the game enjoyable...
Yeay the game is quite faster but to no gain : the game sucks.

Just go to the right, dodge all combats until you get to the final boss, empty the gun on him... that's it, you won.

Really a shame titus failed hard to provide games like Prehistorik 1&2, blues Brothers or Moktar/Titus the fox, which were later huge success from them...


Also a shame a game like Wild Street faield to be as good as many of those french side soft platformer such as Night hunter, Taghdan or Back to the golden age...
(a bit of a shame Barbarian 2 also failed at being like those games... but quite had more interest than WildStreet)





Ok targhan wasn't the smoothest but really nice graphics and actually something to explore...

Back to the golden age really feels like an Atari ST game in 4 colours...
Night hunter is somewhat quite similar as well.


Can't wait for the next videos...

[gerald]

NoExit :
heard rumors that the game would crash with 6128PLUS or simply PLUS with any peripheral plugged...

NoExit has a high probability to crash because .... it use the stack before initialising the stack pointer 
CPC Plus cartridge replacement : one more