Dizzy is back?

[Gryzor]

So, the Oliver twins are kicking it off with a Kickstarter project, to be released on PC and iOS (wot? No Android? Screw them).


What impressed me (negatively) is that they're asking €430.000 to fund it!!! Are you serious???


At least the final game won't be that expensive, ten quid from what I can see.


Oh, also, 8-bit mode will be included, though I'd bet it's a Speccy thing :6

[EgoTrip]

I personally do not understand the need for a kickstarter project. They managed to pull off the PotYF remake without it. But £350k? Maybe it will cost that much, taking into account having to pay big ego salaries to people who expect a lot of money. Like you, I am unimpressed.


Anyway, aren't Kickstarter facing a massive patent lawsuit from a 3D printer manufacturer?


As for the 8-bit mode, id rather have 8 colour Spectrum graphics (minus the attribute clash of course) than 4-colour CPC graphics. Of course on the actual 8-bit hardware the reverse is true because of the horrendous attribute clash on the speccy.

[MacDeath]

Now they have no hair they are turning into Dizzies themselves...


Well you know, they ask for a lot because doing a gradeA video game is that expensive theses days.

[Puresox]

I was quite shocked by the sum of money they are after ? It brings to mind the 'Cheeterman' kickstarter project for the NES. Which was up for debate as to whether it was a con job, and I am sure that the money they were after, was a third of the'Dizzy' project

[Gryzor]

Yes, modern games may cost a lot, but still, after seeing all these real gems coming out of completely indie developers these past few years I really, really don't believe it would cost €430.000 to make. And keep in mind that kickstarter is not there to bring all the revenues in up front, but rather help with the development and launch; the Olivers should not have added into that whatever wages they have in mind for themselves...

I don't think Kickstarted is in trouble with that lawsuit; it'd be like suing a bank for giving a loan to someone who went on and infringed.

[STE86]

Gotta say it really annoys the hell out of me when a trading sw company uses Kickstarter to fund what it should be funding itself.
Afterall THAT is what sw houses are supposed to do isn't it?
make games that people will buy in order to use some of the profits to fund making MORE games that people will buy.

strikes me that many see kickstarter as a way to bankroll their projects with no risk to themselves.
Well tough shit, that is exactly what the games industry has always been about.

I really do believe that Kickstarter should be an "indie" vehicle and not be open for corporate (ab)use.

[EgoTrip]

Gotta say it really annoys the hell out of me when a trading sw company uses Kickstarter to fund what it should be funding itself.
Afterall THAT is what sw houses are supposed to do isn't it?
make games that people will buy in order to use some of the profits to fund making MORE games that people will buy.

strikes me that many see kickstarter as a way to bankroll their projects with no risk to themselves.
Well tough shit, that is exactly what the games industry has always been about.

I really do believe that Kickstarter should be an "indie" vehicle and not be open for corporate (ab)use.

Yeah, its exactly like how all the corporations jumped on eBay and destroyed it. All they care about is money.

[Gryzor]

@Egotrip: eBay? What happened with eBay?

@Ste86: yup, my thoughts exactly. And it's double crappy when you're an already established developer and not an indie that can't face the setup costs. And, it's Dizzy, for fuck's sake, not Halo V! How many devs are on it? Where does all that money go?

[Sykobee (Briggsy)]

I was quite shocked by the sum of money they are after ? It brings to mind the 'Cheeterman' kickstarter project for the NES. Which was up for debate as to whether it was a con job, and I am sure that the money they were after, was a third of the'Dizzy' project

Game development isn't cheap, especially the creation of art assets.


Hopefully the 8-bit mode will be a mix of all the 8-bit art styles - the CPC multi-colour Dizzy sprite and non-attribute clash and the Spectrum (or C64) multiple colours (rather than the limited CPC colours).

[Bryce]

They release 6 games in 2011 and 2 games in 2012, but almost all of these were film spin-offs, or other licensed titles. Their entire profits probably went to whoever they had to pay the license fees to. If they'd spent more time creating original fun games, like they did in the 80's/90's they probably wouldn't need to go begging for cash now.

Bryce.

[Trebmint]

I think people are being a bit harsh. Development cost loads, probably a lot more than they are actually asking. Plus Dizzy isnt going to have a publisher, and okay yeah its easy to self publish using the IOS, Android or PC model, but without hype its not going to come close to making its money back. Kickstarter is great as a way of getting stuff made, but also it create the hype needed to get those 100's of thousands of downloads rather than just thousands.
Plus dont you think it looks lovely cos I do. I didnt like Dizzy, and the character in my opinion is a bit rubbish. Plus its not Elite, Manic Miner or Lord of Midnight so its not going to cause a storm of fanboys. I doubt it'll get close to funding, which is a real shame.
Now I wonder if a Fluff Kickstarter project would get near to the £27.50 needed to fund it haha

[Gryzor]

Well, you got a point there - you do need advertising.  But there are two issues with what you're saying:

-they use kickstarter to fund development, not publishing and what comes with it.
-so you're telling me that asking for money is their way to... create hype so they can make money? Uhhh... weird business and marketing model, if I ever saw one.

[Trebmint]

I dont think thats a weird business model at all. In many senses its testing the waters, checking if people want it with the added advantage they're not relying on publishers, but fans. They get to write the game they want. Remember its a game that wasn't cutting edge, or state of anything, and was over 20 years ago. There's a very good chance that nobody gives a sod if he comes back... it is after all an egg... so blitz can either pump hundreds of thousands in, and sell none, or they can do kickstarter and see if they get sales and interest (which has the added advantage of funding the game)
Look at the Elite Kickstarter project (which Im backing by the way) which I think will get done even if it doesnt get the funding. Frontier could fund it... but creating news and hype is now helping to make it viable even if Kickstarter doesnt reach that £1.25m they want.
Just making the point kickstarter is about testing water, getting a enthused fanbase and freeing yourself from US publishers (who on the whole are t$%"%£s) Not all about the money

[Gryzor]

Oh, I don't disagree with what you say; what I meant was that yes, you can use Kickstarter to garner some interest and initial support, but you can't use it in lieu of 'normal' channels AND put together the money.It's like saying "we don't have the money to raise awareness in order to produce revenue, so we're coming here to raise awareness AND create revenue".

Catch 22, and very, very lazy.

[STE86]

They release 5 games in 2011 and 2 games in 2012, but almost all of these were film spin-offs, or other licensed titles. Their entire profits probably went to whoever they had to pay the license fees to. If they'd spent more time creating original fun games, like they did in the 80's/90's they probably wouldn't need to go begging for cash now.

Bryce.

actually I would say that art assets are about the cheapest things to source these days. just work out how many uni students leave graphics and animation course each year hoping for a chance to work in the industry, and therefore how cheap you can get it done for. most students would virtually work for free in order to get a break.

contrast with coding where it is now recognised there is a massive shortfall of skilled coders coming out of uni in comparison with 20 years ago.

the computer industry has become flooded with people who know how to USE sw but not how to create it.

[Bryce]

But the Oliver Twins are the coders! Surely they aren't spending the money on new coders.

Bryce.

[Gryzor]

But the Oliver Twins are the coders! Surely they aren't spending the money on new coders.

Bryce.

True. So what they're saying is, "we each want €180.000 as salaries", and they put this under "cost". Voila, they now need Kickstarter to pay their wages.

[Trebmint]

I really dont see how its lazy. The Oliver Twins have probably wanted to make this game for a decade, but if they went to EA or any major publisher they'd get laughed out the room. Who's the demographic? 10 year olds that are now 37? Hahaha
You can look at it cynically but I'd rather say... Oh I loved that... yeah make a new one... heres my money up front. TBH I dont care about Dizzy... But If Matthew Smith popped up and said I wanna make Miner Will Meets the Taxman he'd be getting my cash.
Lets face it Sinclair ran on this method. You think the 28 day delivery (Normally 3 months) was because they were inefficient at wrapping the boxes. Nope they didnt build the machines until they cashed your cheque.
Oh and artists are cheap, and so are coders. Good ones arent

[Trebmint]

True. So what they're saying is, "we each want €180.000 as salaries", and they put this under "cost". Voila, they now need Kickstarter to pay their wages.

Why are you assuming they need the money. Blitz are one of the successful game developers. They could probably get an X-Men license or they could develop Dizzy. One would get Publisher cash up front, one Kickstarter. The Oliver Twins get paid and fairly well probably whatever

[Bryce]

How many of those 37+ year olds now have small children and Dad is looking for a children friendly PC/XBox/PS3 game for them (a rarity in itself these days). I don't think that the twins have been dreaming of re-releasing Dizzy for the last 10 years. I think that they made 6 games in 2011, 66% less games in 2012 and now they are looking for some way to pay their mortgages.

Bryce.

[Gryzor]

It's lazy because you can't be arsed to employ a good digital strategy to drive your virality and awareness (ooh, marketeer talking now), but instead you rely on a popular but static platform and you just call on the punters' warm heart. *That*'s lazy.

Also, if what you say about Sinclair and the 28 days (later) is true, Sinclair wouldn't have run into trouble with the authorities since they continuously failed to produce enough within the 28-day window

Regarding the salary, if their own salary is not included then I really can't see where the €430.000 could go. What, are they going to buy a Silicon Graphics server farm or something?

[Trebmint]

Haha oh the cynacism 
You might say the same about Elite though... but nobody is cos its a game people actually want.  Simple truth is we dont know, and if you want to play the game it doesnt actually matter does it

[Gryzor]

Not cynicism, just realism I'd prefer to say...

As for Elite, whoa, just saw that he's asking for £1,250,000. Whoa. Unless he's buying a telescope, yeah, it sounds like too much.

[Trebmint]

Regarding the salary, if their own salary is not included then I really can't see where the €430.000 could go. What, are they going to buy a Silicon Graphics server farm or something?

Oh my thats so not true. You're not talking two guys coding and two doing a few graphics. I would imagine the offices are £50k a year. Rates similar. Decent artists will get 30-40k a year, coders more so, plus the people that put the levels together and the producer 20-30k. And these wages are actually low by UK industry standards.
Plus run a server, website and have the physical copies produced.
This project will cost probably more than they are asking
I think we have a real issue that we see so many good people producing stuff for gratis because they love it. Great that we get free stuff but it means we never see anything truely professional or new

[Trebmint]

Not cynicism, just realism I'd prefer to say...

As for Elite, whoa, just saw that he's asking for £1,250,000. Whoa. Unless he's buying a telescope, yeah, it sounds like too much.

It sounds like a lot but it isnt. This will have 20-30 people working on it for nearly two years. Developing isnt like it was back when bedroom coders could do it all in 6 weeks and still do their paper round