Game idea - CPCanabalt?

[Gryzor]

Well, it came out on the c64. It's a great game, would be so neat...

[MacDeath]

let's see.

C64 (pre version on a real machine so poor video)

Original version :

Many modern little games could do great games on 8bit in general.

This one seems nice.


Graphically a good Mode1 would be great.
But the CPC version wouldn't be in real grey because...erf.... CPC lacks in Greys...

Good point would be to be able to select the colour, like, Orange-dark Red, Blies, purples...
Needless to say a PLUS version would have a proper grey palette.


So what would be the difficulties...



==Sprites : the sprites are quite small so an amstrad CPC can really do them even in soft sprites...
Not the most difficult part here I guess.

==animations : a lot of them in the original version, many are skipped on C64 : birds and broken glasses...
Also the Mecha and spaceship on the background's layers...

==Multilevel scrollings/parallax : This on the other hand would be a bit trickier... There we have the source of a lot of issues.
Fact is : without this parralax the game would simply not be the same and would be dissed by C64fanboyz as completely utter shyte on the CPC if we don't have this.
As I told some elements are animated in those background layers.

Also some foreground elements sometimes Happen, those could be heasily done on a PLUS in a way Prehistorik2 did, using magnified Hardsprites (perhaps even multiplexed ones) to get those cranes in black...


Concerning the multiscroll... We got to remember this wonderfull amstrad Game called AMC.

An engine such as AMC could really work but would need some masked sprites in addition, and a smoother and faster scrolling too.


Provided the sprites here are quite reduced in size...got to remember Bombjack series for small sprites well animated on CPC, but ok those games have no scrollings too.


Got to remember this french game in mode1 with a lot of rasters then, what was its name

oh yeah, 5th axis.
Also like a scrolled infernal runner perhaps (by the creator of Another World on Amstrad CPC....)On the other hand this game would need some screen a bit like starsabre size... horizontal fullscreen perhaps.But it also need a large Y size actually... and we know CPC is better animated/scrolled in a 256 large size screen.Yamakazy any one ? french parkour ? Disctrict 13 ? Matrix ?

[/b]

On a PLUS, many features would add a better version if properly used.
The running guy could be in Hardsprtie perhaps, as there are not a lot of animated frames, and this could add a few exta black&greys too... with easier use of the Hardscroll then, and no problem to get the guy masked.

the foreground cranes could also use some Hardsprites, not a lot actually provided you magnify in Y=4x or multiplex them a little bit.

some spaceship could also be in Hardsprites with X=4 and Y=2 magnified sprites (would be large square pixels...) but those would not be in "background".

Also the Paralax would clearly have less layers.


Now a longer (longest ?) longplay.

[tastefulmrship]

Using the C64 as a base, here's how it COULD look on CPC.
The title screen uses 4 colours in 384x272, the main game itself looks like it uses 5 colours in 320x200, so all I did was get rid of the BLACK in the game screen and pushed it out to the BORDER. Alternatively, I kinda wished I'd stippled the two BLUEs, but I don't have the patience to do that!


EDIT: Personally, I would prefer a different font for the writing... not CPCsystem-font, but a simple 8x8 font. (Well all have millions of them, afterall)

[MacDeath]

I wouldn't use real bright white with cyan/light cyan...

Because in the original game, real white is actual a light grey. not as bright. well I may be wrong actually... but you may catch my means..
more importantly, the white is really a highlight, fewly used, having it with such a bright colour a cyan/light cyan (they are almost the same) wouldn't get the high highlight feeling.

you mix the blue and "blue+cyan" colours, which are suposed to be on the same level...
Blue+Cyan long gradiant may be nice then, so perhaps light cyan instead of white.

Otherwise, maybe to use the "real blue" gradiant so pastel blue + white.


But Cyan/light cyan+white is quite a too bright combinaison I guess


Also what's wrong with you ? you don't use the superior JPG format ?


Jokes appart...
I also tried a "red/orange version with far more ditherings.
Not shure this would look great.

I order to do it properly in mode1 on a CPC/Plus i guess the graphics are to be quite redone so we have a 4 colours base instead... redo most of the gradiants.

Having the PLUS hardsprites would also definitaly be a PLUS... this would enable to have the running guy with some real black that would set him betterly appart from the background.

[tastefulmrship]

Also what's wrong with you ? you don't use the superior JPG format ?

You can't fecking win around here! Fecked if you do, fecked if you don't!
^_^

I'll look into some of the stippling for the 5th colour; I was thinking that SKY BLUE & BLUE would replace the DARK GREY and the BLUE to replace the BLACK. For some reason, I've never liked the CPC's CYAN as a colour, much preferred mixing SKY BLUE with BRIGHT WHITE instead.

[MacDeath]

I wouldn't feck this up with you dude...

Also you are quite right concerning those bright CPc colours...
Would be great to test on a real CPC monitor though.

And we are just in the whishlist/mockup phase (which is often the only one phase... )


Also :



this one has a good amount of decent screenshot, I managed to ripp from them with print screen key...

Some bits of colour artefacts too when you recolour but this is minor.

So, c64 version have it easy with its 2 colours sprites...
But compaired to original, the guy is grey and background use black, while original is the other way...

So I guess the PLUS version should do like the original.


Also, a proper Mode0 version could be quite good enough too... especially on plus, as the hardsprites would still enable fine pixels too.

This could be a nice way to get a lot of antialiasing and decent longer grey scale on PLUS.

I mean, scrolling is so fast that having it in smooth pixel mode1 s not that needed after all...


Original game looks like it needs only 6 colours, perhaps 8 at best.
So on another hand 4 colour mode1 is closed (yet inferior) than the 16 coloured mode0 which is fare too much.


But as always, a good CPC/PLUS version shouldn't try to be pixelwise perfect but gameplaywise perfect...


Obviously the vertical scrolling should be got rid of... I mean, it is not that part of the gameplay, just afancy effect that we could not afford I guess, also I even think it is not as good as without it...

But on the other hand the parallax clearly has to be done on a CPC version or else it will be dissed but C64fags... er... fans.
and such fast and smooth parallax scrolling with foreground elements is somewhat difficult to obtain on CPC.
Again AMC is perhaps one of the best and only exemple.

but AMC had some character based system, this means "attributes clashes"... or more spécifically the "unmasked square characters" syndrome.

Which may be manageable with the backgrounds and forground, but not with such kind of small sprites.

[tastefulmrship]

My stippling effect is terrible. Even I don't like it.

EDIT: However, YELLOW with the ORANGE (like yours) looks better than the CYAN with the BLUE!

[Devilmarkus]

I love the idea!
But is the CPC able to scroll as fast as the original does?

[Devilmarkus]

Gift from me:
All ripped original GFX:

[robcfg]

I think the red version looks awesome!


And we already have two gray versions, the original one and the c64 one 

[MacDeath]

Red/Orange version looks warmer... blue is too cold.

Despite being grey, the original is not blueish nor cold looking...
And the darkRed/Orange scale is perhaps the best CPC one, looks like sepia old pictures.

Concerning the fast scroll...Even good old CPC Hardscroll is supposed to be actually too fast to be used so perfect on this one... or not ?

Anyway, to get a warmer Blue feeling, perhaps :

==Darkblue+Mauve+pastel blue...
==darkpurple+Mauve+pastel blue...

I really like the Mauve colour on CPC...
I can look great with both puple and blue and differ a bit from the straight scales...

[tastefulmrship]

I think the red version looks awesome!

And the darkRed/Orange scale is perhaps the best CPC one, looks like sepia old pictures.

Yeah, even using YELLOW, ORANGE (YELLOW/RED stipple), RED, DARK RED and BLACK for our MODE 1 colours looks ok!
Maybe slightly too HOT!...


EDIT1: @MacDeath; Colours 05 and 14 are rarely used, but look great together.

EDIT2:

But yeah, Red+yellow is too warm IMO.
perhaps try with pastel yellow then.

PASTEL YELLOW makes the dithered sections look more PINK than ORANGE! (see below)

[MacDeath]

Yeah, even using YELLOW, ORANGE (YELLOW/RED stipple), RED, DARK RED and BLACK for our MODE 1 colours looks ok!
Maybe slightly too HOT!...

This make for 5 colours, not really Mode1 friendly... oh ok, Orange is Red+Yellow dither...

But yeah, Red+yellow is too warm IMO.
perhaps try with pastel yellow then.

Gift from me:
All ripped original GFX:

I must have a problem But i fail to download them, it gives me an index.php file... which is not what intended...
Is this a bug with my PC/internet browser/firewall or the new CPCwiki host server screwup ?

[Devilmarkus]

Rename it to index.zip or so...
It's a server problem here.

Or download this:
http://cpc-live.com/canabalt_gfx.zip

I ripped the gfx using Sothink SWF decompiler...

[MacDeath]

It worked, thx...


wow that's make a lot of graphixes...


what resolution the original version is supposed to run at ?
I mean many of those would need to be rescaled I guess...

The spaceship picture is 256pix wide, ok a lot bigger than the ship only because of exhausters or  free space around yet...

What scale down would be great ? Half ? 1/3 or 1/4 ?


Ok I did my first modded tile from your set...
Still in 1/1 scale but I somewhat reduced the size... some pixels were lost in translation.

Thats the image122 from the set.

how does it looks ?


also a mode2 version would be PCW friendly...


Anyway palette talks are not even the real problem...

I mean, it's just 4 values to choose and player should even have the possibility to choose between "many" pre-conceived palettes...
Be it CPC or PLUS...

Monochrome monitor users won't have that much choice though...

provided the tiles and sprites are correctly re-done.




Ok, some "background layers" are originally 480x192 sized... perhaps a 2/3 reduction would work so it becomes 320x128... more CPC friendly then...

But most graphics would need to be redone from scratch with mostly the spirit kept.

[tastefulmrship]

I'm no good at games like this with COMPLICATED CONTROL SCHEMES and MULTIPLE KEYBOARD-CLICKS FOR MOVEMENT... but here's my highscore so far!

wow that's make a lot of graphixes...


what resolution the original version is supposed to run at ?
I mean many of those would need to be rescaled I guess...

A simple 50/50 skew would work, but look weird. maybe ask the C64 guys if we can 'borrow' theirs!


EDIT1: I haven't dithered this one as I can't be arsed!
EDIT2: New HIGHSCORE... would've been better, but the fecking thing ignores too many [SPACE] presses!

[Devilmarkus]

Don't think they must be downscaled.
But best they would fit into an overscan screen...
The game scrolls in all directions and I found 3 different versions of it in the WWW... all 3 had different sizes.

[Devilmarkus]

Here's the gamesize I found first:


It's 480x320
CPC's overscan is 384x272
I don't think anybody cares about a few missing pixels, because the game scrolls

Edit: For widescreen: Use 2 CPC's network connected and put 2 CTM's
CPC 1 then sends gameposition to CPC 2 and it locates the right screen

[Devilmarkus]

 

[tastefulmrship]

A retouch of the C64 intro screen... made slightly more CPC friendly! ^_^
(In C64 palette)


EDIT: And now, in CPC YELLOW!

[Devilmarkus]

A retouch of the C64 intro screen... made slightly more CPC friendly! ^_^
(In C64 palette)

Nice CAT art *lol*

[MacDeath]

Don't think they must be downscaled.
But best they would fit into an overscan screen...
The game scrolls in all directions and I found 3 different versions of it in the WWW... all 3 had different sizes.

If we downscale, we can then get rid of this Jerky vertical scrolling, which is quite good codewise for the game to run on a CPC... I guess.

Also to scale down graphics a bit can be important so we don't have the "portable console reduced screen" syndrome...

Remember Double Dragon on Atari Lynx ?

This is a No-no !!!



And smaller scale means smaller sprites so better and easier speed&animation... but not inferior game.

The CPC screen covers perhaps the same surface with fewer (bigger) pixels.

What is important is not the number of pixels but the surface on screen.

Remember when Speccy wankers argue that CPC has a smaller sized screen so it must have less pixels than speccy...
We know it is false because CPC puts 320x200 where speccy put only 256x192 for almost the same surface...

And on a real screen, good old Mode0 are actually not that much bigger than NES or Speccy pixels... just that because it is often reduced into 128x192 you can't expand the graphics as they should be.


Full overscanned Fullscreen ?

"Oathmeal, are you crazy "

Well more seriously, X=256 sized screen is better for scrollings and animation.
Does this also work for overscanned 512 (mode1) screens then ?
Of course a large part of the screen is in the overscan zone, but we then keep the 256 multiple, as we "simply" get two "256xXXX" screens beside each other...

Oh, and 32k VRAM too...


If such technic is possible then aim for a 512x256 screen which would be two 256x256 screens... and this would practically give us a full screen on the monitor too...
Despite some of it is not displayed (but ready for the scrolling)

@Devilmarkus : sorry But I call FAKE on this...

Those are to be PLUS monitor if you want those colours...

Unless you get some keen PLUS-CPCmonitor adapters...

But proper coders would certainly dismiss this suggestion.

Also it would not be "Game-Over" but Over-Scan".



What I think is to reduce too much the horizontal size would dismish the gameplay.
large screen means you can anticipate betterly, as this game is fast as hell.

[Devilmarkus]

Well is resizing really so important?
Let's check:

[MacDeath]

The missing part IS important : a platform...

This game is all about anticipation.


But anyway, blank talks, we need a coder to see how such engine should be and should work and specify some accurate and realistic limitations first.

Also, there, re-dithered version in B&W + Mauve+ pastel blue...

another one with Grey and darkcyan...

[Devilmarkus]

But anyway, blank talks, we need a coder to see how such engine should be and should work and specify some accurate and realistic limitations first.

True.
I'm sure the game engine itself will not need much ram... perhaps 3-4k?!?