Game idea - CPCanabalt?

[tastefulmrship]

(... from BASIC program on last page)
Nice greys, but can they be successfully put into a 'mock-up' screen of Canabalt?
If so, we may have our solution to the Grey-shades problem!



EDIT1: Oh, and 5 DEFINT a-z helps speed things up!

EDIT2: That makes 6 colours (including BLACK) and we only need 5 (for a C64 conversion), so I would say removing the WHITE/BLACK stipple.

[Devilmarkus]

(... from BASIC program on last page)
Nice greys, but can they be successfully put into a 'mock-up' screen of Canabalt?
If so, we may have our solution to the Grey-shades problem!



EDIT: Oh, and 5 DEFINT a-z helps speed things up!

If you could do this:
For every greyscaled tone create 1 screenshot (With only the area shown which has this grey value)
Then I could merge them together (perhaps)

[Devilmarkus]

Wait!!! Do nothing...
Will code a little prog which transforms a 8 coloured png into this dithered format!

[MacDeath]

so B&W dither is actually a little brigther than normal grey ?

Even on a real Monitor ?

I learnt another stuff then...

This would be a good thing : the game would be in 3 inks only so we may have 1 spare ink for the various masks...This may help a little bit with parallaxes perhaps...

[Devilmarkus]

Result:

Edit: Original source png attached

[MacDeath]

Will code a little prog which transforms a 8 coloured png into this dithered format!

there are 6 "colours" (shades) produced with this system actually... (or 5 ?)

[Devilmarkus]

True but I downgraded the screenshot from 24 bit to 8 colours.
But only 6 colours were used.
(one was almost white so I set the output result here to white, too)

[tastefulmrship]

Even when 'blown-up' to WinAPE double size, it looks nice. Any chance of down-sizing it to 320x200?
What would the 3rd PEN colour be? Would it need one?

[MacDeath]

This thread helped me to understand that the real old monitor can be tweaked and that CPC's mode1 fine pixels can simply have far better dithers than speccys blockiers pixels...

The only limitation is that we have to get those graphics spread on a greater surface  so we can put those ditherings with sharp and precise limits to get a clean result.

We will certainly need to update the "video modes" wikipage... or perhaps create a new one ?

What would the 3rd PEN colour be? Would it need one?

As I said, there is a technic that enable to use one ink to put a mask on a graphic so you get the transparency ink...
It is better than a 1bpp mask as it use no extra bits.

The only drawback is that you have one less ink for the masked stuff (see the various speccy ports topics).


In a sense it is a bit like the "composite tweak" video modes on good old american computers (like CGA or APPLE2...).
It is a way to have more "colours" but to have precise designs you then need to spread on a larger surface.


anyway some elements would need to be re-assigned a different colour than the one in the original game.

As I told, the corridor is a bit too dark there...

Also we don't use a "dark grey" but black, so the whole game is darker.
in a sense it would be better to actually use the 6 shades produced by this dithered palette...

Remember this example for the corridor.



The pitch black ink (undithered) would then be used mostly for the sprites and to get more precise shapes.

[tastefulmrship]

Ok, then.
Is it worth converting some of the original graphics into these grey-scale colours (or even the BLUE/YELLOW combination as well)? Just to see where some of these INKs can be changed.


And if we're going back to the ORANGE palette, doesn't this remove your transparency INK? Would it really work with shades?
Mmmm... maybe not!

[Devilmarkus]

Or with this palette:
0,3,15,26

[Devilmarkus]

Or 0,10,20,26:

Edit: The guy's sprite I would do in black/white only so he's got a better contrast to the scene

[MacDeath]

There, an "original working base" with a palette panel in a corner, i hope this may help a little bit, I also added a few pitchblack pixels...

I put extra colours so it is easier to work on a PC, but to get into a CPC those would have to be turned into proper CPC Mode1 x4 inks, perhaps as indicator for the dithered colours...

I also removed the white line on top.

And if we're going back to the ORANGE palette, doesn't this remove your transparency INK? Would it really work with shades?

Grey+B&W is a 3 colour palette.
This enable 3 ditherings...
B&W, G&W and B&G.


With a 4 colour palette it enble a bit more extra dithered colours... no not all of them would be used...

Provided we use "monochromatic palette"...

exemple : Black, DarkRed, Orange, White/PastelYellow...
This is a sort of monochromatic palette...


See ?
it is a "diagonal"... smooth gradiant from "Red" to Yellow"...



So such 4 colour palette would anable 4! Colours (with ditherings or not) = 10 combinaison or pure colours.


Far too much as needed and few of them not really in the "monocolour" range.

Black, DarkRed, Orange, PastelYellow...

would be this additionnal dithered palette :
Black+DarkRed.
Darkred+orange.
Orange+Pastel yellow.

The extra ones would certainly be "out of tune"...


to dither DarkRed with Pastel Yellow would simply give a less smooth orange, which we already have...
While a Black+Pastel Yellow would be out of tune.


but I may be wrong of course...

this make up for a total of 7 usable colours... which may be good as Black is not to be used that often (see the "original working base with added black).

Because to "simply" replace the darker grey by black is far too dark and not that suitable actually.

[Devilmarkus]

What would the 3rd PEN colour be? Would it need one?

Well, to keep it as original as it is, I only would use 3 colours.
(When using the grey scale I attached some replies ago)

[MacDeath]

A good point with such project would be to prouve the retro comunity that the Amstrad CPC can into Grey and Browns just as much as the C64 could...



so getting into those 2 pure grey or brown palette would be great...

would darkRed+PastelYellow product the same effect as B&W with grey ? a darker orange ?

perhaps...

If so, the graphics would be exactly the same, just replace Black by Darkred, Grey by Orange and White by PastelYellow.


anyway, the palette debate seems now done...

Next step is a Coder to tell us the resolution/screensize that will be used and what scrolling and parallax effects could be implemented.

less paralax = less backgrounds layers...

Also, what background animations could be done (if any ?)





Another idea... here is a try on the extended "brown" palette.

It would use and additionnal grey in order to mix it with Orange but alos Pastel Yellow or DarkRed... how would it blend on a real machine ?

This could be used for the background layers so they get separated visually with the foreground layers (sprites and buildings)

Backgrounds would be in full Grey-ditherings (so 3 colours...Grey+Red, +orange and +yellow) and foreground would use the grey as masking ink so wouldn't use it at all...

why not...

[tastefulmrship]

A good point with such project would be to prouve the retro comunity that the Amstrad CPC can into Grey and Browns just as much as the C64 could...

Tried a load of colours and YELLOWs fail, RED+DARK RED is too dark, but ORANGE+DARK RED isn't too bad!
(Not as good as WHITE+BRIGHT WHITE)


EDIT: Can someone knock-up a simple full-screen hard-scroller so we can add converted graphics to it and possibly see it in action?

[MacDeath]

There another kind.

perhaps the "monoblucyan" with white instead of pastel cyan...


The perhaps good point with this system is that the backgrounds layer have a united grey dithering... which give a foggy feeling... but It would need to be tested on real monitor to be sure it doesn't fail miserably.

If you look the grey used in the original, half of them are a bit in the blue-cyan zone actually...

As you can see with the last 2, having a free ink could enable to choose between a monocolour or a bi-colour game.

[tastefulmrship]

As you can see with the last 2, having a free ink could enable to choose between a monocolour or a bi-colour game.

Yeah, and either DARK RED or DARK BLUE seem to look ok. Give that Film Noir atomsphere!


EDIT: And, our olde friend, PASTEL YELLOW & PASTEL BLUE!

[Gryzor]

While these two look beautiful, I still insist no more colour should be added - stay faithful to the original...

[robcfg]

I would add an option to the cpc version that lets the user change the colors and shio the game in the original grey by default.

[Gryzor]

Yeah, tastefulmrship suggested this a couple of pages ago, I think it'd be nice.

[tastefulmrship]

While these two look beautiful, I still insist no more colour should be added - stay faithful to the original...

I understand your concerns, however I feel the CPC version (if one will ever see light of day) should have its own flavour. robcfg is right (in his post above), we should have an option to change the palette to suit the player's taste. This means we can stay faithful to the original, OR have our own CPC palette combinations. Maybe even include MEGA MIDNIGHT THUNDERSTORM MODE!

Yeah, tastefulmrship suggested this a couple of pages ago, I think it'd be nice.

Actually, it turns out MacDeath also suggested this on the first page! I only read it a few minutes ago when I thought I'd go through the thread properly. Infact, a lot of people have edited posts since yesterday... it makes for quite an interesting read!

[Gryzor]

Oop! Sorry, MacDeath!!! Slip of tongue. Yeah, I think this would be the best...

[MacDeath]

Thx for due credits...



The point is, with the last solution I gave, to switch between full grey or Grey+other colour is actually not a problem as we use the benefit to have a free ink.

If this free inK is also Grey (sorry the official name is white but you know it is boring to differenciate between white and bright white...) then you have the faithfull stuff...

But with exactly the same tile set, just to change one of the grey with another colour is simply perfect to get mixed atmospheres.



Anyway the real challenge again will be to get a smooth and fast game with awesome paralax effects...
You know ? those paralax coders often tell us it is impossible to achieve on CPC...
The dreaded Shadow of the beast multiscroll+ the big trees that cross all scrolling zones...


On the other Hand, a free ink could help with some raster effects (perhaps more on PLUS) such as the background in prehistorik2...


Good with grey and darkcyan too.

Also we never tried in green yet...

[TotO]

Some interesting works here.