What mode 1 games with barely any colours would you like to see remade in mode 0?
Examples:
(https://www.myabandonware.com/media/screenshots/i/indiana-jones-and-the-last-crusade-the-action-game-8pg/indiana-jones-and-the-last-crusade-the-action-game_4.png)
(https://cpcrulez.fr/img/z1879.png)
I'd rather have them remade in Mode 1 properly.
Quote from: dodogildo on 16:07, 17 February 25I'd rather have them remade in Mode 1 properly.
I agree with this too.
For instance, the original BombJack is a mode 0 game, but the remake in mode 1 looks way better.
I like proper MODE 1 games, but I think Last Crusade would look great with a CPC+ Mode 0 treatment (full screen, not spectrum sized screen). I did enjoy the game back in the day, although could have done with a few more levels.
It's a tricky one, the Indy game was pretty awful on every platform - I think there's just a lot more jank in the game design that'd need fixing, before even really worrying about the graphics (and I say that as someone who played it a lot, wishing it was a better game).
Xybots does look very bland though and I do think it could look a lot nicer in Mode 0. I'm less convinced Mode 1 would ever really work well for that, because any kind of shading effect is going to start hiding bullets very quickly (unless someone wants to prove me wrong).
Switchblade (on the GX) was one I always felt could've been much better with Mode 0 graphics, especially given that you have the H/W sprites there to maintain a touch of higher res detail on the main character and enemies.
There are some other obvious candidates, Wonder Boy in Monsterland, Scramble Spirits, Flying Shark etc. I've also always been curious about what a good artist could achieve with something like Dizzy (yeah, I don't really count CKD) or even Head Over Heels (which is beautiful in Mode 1)
I find it very funny when I semi-like something that most people hate, or vice versa.
Like the movie 400 Days (pretty fun if you don't take it seriously, ignore the 4.4 on IMDB)... or the Action game for Last Crusade.
The torches thing was kind of a pain. The monochrome was decent for Speccy, subpar for the CPC.
But I don't know, I always had a soft spot for this... 6/10 game? I mean, it's not "bad", but definitely not great.
Indy moves at a slow pace too... but I feel like this game offers a great sense of adventure. You can jump, use your whip, visit many of the movie "locations"... (not Venice, sadly!).
I loved playing the game on the original Game Boy, borrowed from a friend. It was so cool playing a CPC game in the late 90s on a portable console (without too many games, I was saving for the PS1).
The slowly dying light of the torches effect would have been interesting to see in pixelated 16 colors. I guess they would have added some black/gray dots here and there, as the CPC doesn't have that big of a pallette (there are like 4 or 5 light levels).
And yes, the blackness of Xybots is almost scary, that game needs the gray walls of the original.
Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade in mode 1 could be like this:
I have Indiana Jones on the SMS and being in full colour doesn't help the game much. If anything, the gameplay feels even more janky. On the Spectrum, the stiff style feels more appropriate, somehow. The improved CPC palette above does look way better.
I wish that Switchblade had used the full capabilities of the Plus instead of just using sprites to recolour some random bits of background. Hard to do when you're making a cross-compatible game, I know. And I realise the masking complicates things further, but it's still sad seeing our protagonist all grey, while 16 colour sprites are being used to draw some static boxes in the background.
For Bomb Jack I tried both Mode 0 and Mode 1 and decided that losing colour looked better than losing detail. The sprites are only 16x16 and I didn't want to smush his little face.
Quote from: RedAngel on 21:46, 17 February 25Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade in mode 1 could be like this:
Great example how wonderful MODE 1 can be for games - while MODE 2 is best for applicatioins. MODE 0 is nice for screens and few games too. :) :) :)
Pictures in the first post show that they are just badly converted form speccy.
Quote from: Anthony Flack on 00:08, 18 February 25I have Indiana Jones on the SMS and being in full colour doesn't help the game much. If anything, the gameplay feels even more janky. On the Spectrum, the stiff style feels more appropriate, somehow. The improved CPC palette above does look way better.
I wish that Switchblade had used the full capabilities of the Plus instead of just using sprites to recolour some random bits of background. Hard to do when you're making a cross-compatible game, I know. And I realise the masking complicates things further, but it's still sad seeing our protagonist all grey, while 16 colour sprites are being used to draw some static boxes in the background.
For Bomb Jack I tried both Mode 0 and Mode 1 and decided that losing colour looked better than losing detail. The sprites are only 16x16 and I didn't want to smush his little face.
Switchblade is a great game but it is a pity that the cartridge version doesn't use hardware sprites for the main sprite. With a better palette, a more interesting gradient of colours for the sky and some little tweaks to the main sprite it could look like this:
(about:invalid)
By the way I really like how you achieve more colours through dithering in the Bomb Jack version you are working, it doesn't look like the limited mode 1 we are used to ;)
Quote from: GUNHED on 16:52, 18 February 25Quote from: RedAngel on 21:46, 17 February 25Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade in mode 1 could be like this:
Great example how wonderful MODE 1 can be for games - while MODE 2 is best for applicatioins. MODE 0 is nice for screens and few games too. :) :) :)
Pictures in the first post show that they are just badly converted form speccy.
There are many poor Speccy ports that use 1 bit graphics that are not the native format used by CPC in mode 1 and those games look bad and are usually slower than they should. Even using a different ink for backgrounds and sprites would improve the look overall and it would break the graphic monotony.
Absolutely! :) :) :) Some of them even use the speccy way of managing the screen. The CPC version is then just an "speccy screen emulator". :o
QuoteEven using a different ink for backgrounds and sprites would improve the look overall and it would break the graphic monotony.
Yeah, some games did this and it does help things to stand out. Scooby Doo and Scramble Spirits come to mind.
On the other hand, we have modern games like Gato Roboto showing just how good 1bit graphics can look. There is something I quite like about it. Or Downwell that restricts itself to three colours.
Other games like Starquake are using un-enhanced Spectrum graphics, but without colour clash and more colours to choose from, I still think Starquake looks great on the CPC. I always thought that was a pretty game.
One thing that is often overlooked is that high res graphics look so much better on the CPC with its RGB monitor, compared to an original Spectrum or C64 plugged into the RF input of a TV. The dot crawl on the 48k Spectrum's video output is horrendous.
Speaking of 1bit gfx. C64's Tony:
(https://i.ibb.co/scTk2tv/ton.gif)
Looks good and well drawn.
Not easy to create a good looking two-colour game.
Indy in the first post works similar, but usage of 1-bit colour choice is not so well done and not wise in case of the capabilities.
I had a bit of fun tonight inspired by Anthony Flack's Mode 1 Bombjack and Xyphoe's recent playing of Green Beret. I had a go at imagining what that game might look like in Mode 1 (with some raster effects for the top and bottom for extra colours). I traced over a Mode 0 screen shot and I'm sure someone could do a much better job but it was a fun exercise. No idea if it is really practical from a coding point of view but it's always fun to imagine.
(https://i.ibb.co/Mkmy0n2F/Green-Beret.png)
Imagine, get it?
Perhaps it's the name for a new retro label - "re-imagine"
The force of the CPC is to provide great games that not use horizontal scrolling.
Bombjack was a great idea using mode 1. But, the topic is mode 1 to mode 0 ;D
I found two games made twice in MODE 1 and MODE 0.
https://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=9365 <- MODE 1 & 0
Elvira Mistress of the dark
https://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=18838 <- MODE 1
https://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=18878 <- MODE 0
Quote from: ZorrO on 16:04, 22 March 25I found two games made twice in MODE 1 and MODE 0.
And I can add two more:
- Phoenix (https://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=13498) (a homebrew game from 2016)
- Tales of the Arabian Nights (https://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=2170)
Tales of the Arabian Nights was originally released by Interceptor Software in MODE 1, but according to the review in
Amstrad Action, they weren't entirely happy with it, so it was reprogrammed and re-released with MODE 0 graphics.
I was disappointed to see Strider in Mode 1 while Forgotten Worlds was incredible in Mode 0.
many of those awful mode1 speccy sh**ts often also had terribad game engines beyond any redemption.
I mean, check for Black Tiger or WonderBoy Monsterland... and you'll know.
Bad use of rasters, small screen, many routines or engine code strategies unfit for CPC, tailored to run on a Speccy 48 with tape... or just coded by a poorly paid british student in 2 weeks.
Black Tiger is not a good game on CPC. Poor gameplay and graphics! (not your mockup)
yeah, that's what I was saying.
Black Tiger : laggy, poor colision detection, bugged bats, poor graphics, no proper useful colours, and so on, a great Tiertex magnificent brilliance (not).
I don't think any home conversion of Black Tiger was any good. It's a great arcade game.
Strider 1 & 2, Street Fighter 2 old and new, they are good example how different can look the same game on the same computer but other MODE.
Paperboy - mode 1
https://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=3629
Adios A La Casta - 1 & 2
https://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=12680
https://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=13113
Quote from: MacDeath on 19:57, 22 March 25many of those awful mode1 speccy sh**ts often also had terribad game engines beyond any redemption.
I mean, check for Black Tiger or WonderBoy Monsterland... and you'll know.
Bad use of rasters, small screen, many routines or engine code strategies unfit for CPC, tailored to run on a Speccy 48 with tape... or just coded by a poorly paid british student in 2 weeks.
Fantastic use of dithering in Black Tiger :o
Quote from: MacDeath on 19:57, 22 March 25many of those awful mode1 speccy sh**ts often also had terribad game engines beyond any redemption.
I mean, check for Black Tiger or WonderBoy Monsterland... and you'll know.
Bad use of rasters, small screen, many routines or engine code strategies unfit for CPC, tailored to run on a Speccy 48 with tape... or just coded by a poorly paid british student in 2 weeks.
Your Black Tiger looks brilliant, i think it could be improved just slightly by using a split raster for the upper scores(i.e. using red, white and more like the arcade font) etc.
(https://i.postimg.cc/66hfYT2T/Blacktiger2.png)
I messed around with that blue part of the play area also adding white, not sure if it works and making it look too busy, i think the red in the scoreboard works though
I think a problem with Black Tiger is the too little game window.
The width can be 240 + 16 px (2 char columns) for the scrolling.
Quote from: lmimmfn on 15:20, 23 March 25Your Black Tiger looks brilliant, i think it could be improved just slightly by using a split raster for the upper scores(i.e. using red, white and more like the arcade font) etc.
Thx you, yeah it's an old mockup I did a long time ago, certainly around 12-15 years ago.
Yeah you are right, we can add rasters to get more colours for the HUDs zones (Upper score zones, Lower inventory zone) as they actually did, but this would often mess with the game engine and provide those awesome typical CPC slowdowns we all loved and enjoyed.
"Imrpoving speccy ports" is an old debate we often already had here or in various other forums during at least the last 15 years. many issues for that : games engines are often beyound redemption due to dire limitations, because designed for speccy to begin with.
Black tiger : the Speccy game is "monocolour" to begin with, scenery tiles are in 1bpp (bit per pixels, Sprites are 1bpp + mask for transparency in 1bpp, so the CPC one is too. Also game designed for Speccy48, so limited to 64k on CPC.
Proper CPC engine should handle 2bpp tiles and 2bpp tiles using 1 ink for the transparency technic, hence limited to only 3 colours + transparency.
Also those rasters were often badly coded and could slow down more than needed, just for the benefit of saying "look, there are 6 colours on the screen" despite the game zone still being fuck**ing 2 colours only.
Must be very hard to implement this on a game engine without a well documented source code and it is actually bettetr to do a new game from scratch, and most people don't find Mode1 attractive for such game
When they felt fancy on their speccy ports, they would at least get the sprite displayed a different colours than the backgroun (see Xybot) which is actually a grerat upgrade as there are no colour clashes here... well we have a wiki page on the mater jsut read it. :D
And yes the backgropunds blue tiles could be slightly highlighted (looks good as you did) but at the time I did this, I was aiming at just a "proper mode1" without those often useless resters used on those poor speccyports, just as for the pacmania mockup too... and I botched/skipped a bit this part.
I did a few tries with tiles Studio at the time, like ages ago...
Quote from: Egg Master on 19:38, 24 March 25think a problem with Black Tiger is the too little game window.
The width can be 240 + 16 px (2 char columns) for the scrolling.
Tiertex also did Strider with exact same issue, game windows so small it activates bidirectional scrollings each time you jump... which wouldn't happen had the gamefield been bigger.
limiting the full screen to 256x192 was first a way to keep the speccy code, and reduce the theorical "VRAM" to 12ko (often it didn't even shown in the code and wasn't optimized, pure lazyness most often)
Smaller window was a suppsoed way to keep CPU ressources to allow smooth multidirectionnal scrolling and save some RAM somehow. But from a ZXspectrum48 perspective... laughable when you owned a CPC6128 that was reduced to litterally emulate Speccy48 (and did it badly).
Game like final fight is also Speccyported... the 192pix vertical limit gives a smaller screen so it needs some vertical scrolling when you're up on the screen and jump... uneeded animation as they could have run for bigger screen (use a bit more RAM, theorically) bu then you don't have to implement a vertical scrolling at all, which is certainly a juge gain too.
would need additional 4ko of RAM for screen, so count 8ko if dubble buffered... the game already uses 128ko RAM and may be a bit well stuffed, still I think if could have been done.
None of these games we're criticising look anywhere near as good as Mode 1 is capable of, and very few of them move as well as the CPC (in any mode) is capable of. Issues like the reduced window size but unchanged sprite size reducing visibility or enforcing excessive scrolling (on a system where scrolling is a weak point) isn't a matter of Mode 1 v Mode 0. Plenty of French games (especially adventures) look great in Mode 1, likewise isometric games like Strike Force Cobra or Head Over Heels where sacrificing colour to maximise detail is done effectively. And I still think monochromatic Last Ninja 2 looks great (though the Spectrum sound is another matter).
Last ninja 2 would have looked very much better had is used an extra ink or been in proper Mode2, though.
Quote from: MacDeath on 19:36, 27 March 25Last ninja 2 would have looked very much better had is used an extra ink or been in proper Mode2, though.
I've reverse-engineered a good amount of Last Ninja 2 source code as a learning exercise (around 80% variables and functions with names, all 6 levels assemble ok), but I don't have the skills to make a good mode 0 conversion. Also there is a problem with System 3 is still an active company that owns and exploit the copyright of this game ...
Quote from: isidoro on 23:14, 27 March 25Quote from: MacDeath on 19:36, 27 March 25Last ninja 2 would have looked very much better had is used an extra ink or been in proper Mode2, though.
I've reverse-engineered a good amount of Last Ninja 2 source code as a learning exercise (around 80% variables and functions with names, all 6 levels assemble ok), but I don't have the skills to make a good mode 0 conversion. Also there is a problem with System 3 is still an active company that owns and exploit the copyright of this game ...
I doubt System 3 would care, Galahad on EAB might have System 3 contacts as he recovered Amiga Putty Squad from one of their hard drives back in 2013 and the game was released then( was reviewed back in the day but never released until then)
Quote from: isidoro on 23:14, 27 March 25I've reverse-engineered a good amount of Last Ninja 2 source code as a learning exercise (around 80% variables and functions with names, all 6 levels assemble ok), but I don't have the skills to make a good mode 0 conversion. Also there is a problem with System 3 is still an active company that owns and exploit the copyright of this game ...
Congratulations! I think just using the C64 graphics is enough to start making a Mode 0 conversion.
(https://www.c64-wiki.com/images/0/03/LastNinja2_Animation2.gif)
Quote from: Egg Master on 12:35, 28 March 25I think just using the C64 graphics is enough to start making a Mode 0 conversion.
Exactly. Too bad System 3 won't let anybody touch their intellectual property. pfff!
People can do what they want. Nobody will complain if it is not for a commercial use.
I may be wrong but it seems to me that C64's Last Ninja 2 backgrounds are on double-wide pixel mode so basically they can be reproduced pixel-perfectly on CPC's 160x200 mode 0. So far so good.
On the other hand, character sprites seem to be on square-pixel mode (like they're on a 320x200 matrix, and yeah C64 gfx work in strange ways). So pls tell me how on earth a CPC last ninja sprite won't look (and move) ugly on mode 0?
Well yes the C64 graphics are double wide pixels, but there also limited in colour selection so they'll also look uglier than they need to on a CPC.
As to the high res sprites, you could either redraw them (again the CPC is less limited here in terms of adding colours for detail) or just target the Plus machines (which can do high res sprites and still use yet more colour)
There's the BBC Micro version to source those wide pixel sprites if one needs to.
Quote from: lmimmfn on 11:12, 28 March 25Quote from: isidoro on 23:14, 27 March 25Quote from: MacDeath on 19:36, 27 March 25Last ninja 2 would have looked very much better had is used an extra ink or been in proper Mode2, though.
I've reverse-engineered a good amount of Last Ninja 2 source code as a learning exercise (around 80% variables and functions with names, all 6 levels assemble ok), but I don't have the skills to make a good mode 0 conversion. Also there is a problem with System 3 is still an active company that owns and exploit the copyright of this game ...
I doubt System 3 would care, Galahad on EAB might have System 3 contacts as he recovered Amiga Putty Squad from one of their hard drives back in 2013 and the game was released then( was reviewed back in the day but never released until then)
System 3 is about to release "The Last Ninja Collection" for PS5, PS4, XBOX, PC and Switch through Kickstarter. They raised 213.000€, and it seems the release is mainly containing their old games running inside an emulator (C64, Amiga and Spectrum versions), so in this particular case I think they are not going to be happy with someone sharing their source code...
Quote from: andycadley on 15:30, 28 March 25Well yes the C64 graphics are double wide pixels, but there also limited in colour selection so they'll also look uglier than they need to on a CPC.
As to the high res sprites, you could either redraw them (again the CPC is less limited here in terms of adding colours for detail) or just target the Plus machines (which can do high res sprites and still use yet more colour)
Problems would be memory to store all tiles and gfx, double buffer, music, ...
Ninja and enemies sprites in mode 0 are not going to look good (maybe could make ninja sprite a bit taller to increase definition)
The source code maybe could be useful to make MSX1 port (Spectrum direct port), or redrawing sprites in hi-res to make Amstrad plus, MSX2 or Spectrum Next versions.
But all of these now are beyond my skills.
This is a test with C64 screen resolution and changing some gfx, without double buffer (writting directly to vram)
In my opinion Last Ninja on BBC in 8 colors and pixels like in MODE 0, looks better than CPC version. C64 is even prettier and could be easily done on CPC, even if Ninja had bigger pixels than on C64 it would still be better than what we have now.
In the early 90s when I had my 6128, I had a lot of friends with Atari XE and C64, and I only had two things that made a bad impression on them. Talking programs and Last Ninja. I didn't know then how it sounds and looks on C64, but when I heard and saw, I understood.
John Gage (the swearing British youtuber) gave The Last Ninja a 1/10, and CPC Game Reviews gave The Last Ninja 2 Remix a 9/10.
Both seem to use the same monochrome engine, and none of them seems to have sound.
I think the "black and white" graphics are kind of nice, less aggressive than the purples of games like Nosferatu. But yeah, mode 0 would have been much more immersive. This is not a game inspired by a noir film.
I think the BBC version shows that you certainly can redraw the sprites and have them look ok, although I'm not sure everything on the BBC has quite the same proportions, so it might be more effort (although you can theoretically use more colours too, so there is scope for doing a better job).
I can't say I ever really enjoyed Last Ninja on any platform though, it always seemed too fiddly for my liking and not as enjoyable as other isometric titles (although it did look pretty I'll grant you)
Quote from: isidoro on 17:52, 28 March 25This is a test with C64 screen resolution and changing some gfx, without double buffer (writting directly to vram)
It looks promising. It is a good way to do. I'm sure a CPC mode 0 will have his own identity like that. :)
Quote from: isidoro on 17:46, 28 March 25System 3 is about to release "The Last Ninja Collection" for PS5, PS4, XBOX, PC and Switch through Kickstarter.
d'oh!
Last ninja 2 is speccied to the core... if it uses only 2 colours on the playfield, then the engine may not allow for more unless redone (to be verified) and I suppose most assets are coded in 1bit per pixel ?
sometimes hte sprites are in 2bpp so you may patch those to use a few extra colours, but then the backgrounds would be in 1bpp so couldn't... Sometimes they would use the same system as on monocolor speccy : 1bpp graphs sprites AND 1bpp mask... see H.A.T.E per exemple (Hostile All Terrain Encounter) which is another classic exemple of UK doing sh**it on CPC.
Yes a patch may be fun but really, but why not go for a proper 320x200 CPC version ?
BBC micro version looks mostly in 160x200x8 (wide pixels)...
Also CGA version for MS-DOS may provide useful mode1 exploitable assets but it seems very few non french/spanish companies cared to use CGA assets on CPC, ever.
quite often Z80 based versions were devloped by a different contractor than the IBM-MS-DOS version and thsoe would never share stuff...
"get this running on speccy, then emulate speccy on CPC" was the too often english way of screwing us.
Fact is they didn't put any effort on the CPC and PCW versions...
It depends a lot on how things are stored. Speccy sprites typically use a 1bpp bitmap and 1bpp mask, so this can usually be replaced with a 2bpp Mode 1 sprite or 4bpp Mode 0 sprite as long as you use a fixed colour for transparency rather than a mask.
The tricky part is background graphics that might not be masked. In an isometric game, however, it's possible many things have to be masked because they aren't necessarily drawn on clean boundaries so there might be space (unless masks are shared)
Yes, LN2 is a direct port from Spectrum. The game area is drawn into a mode 2 compressed vram, and then decompressed to mode 1 on the fly every frame.
Graphics are stored in mode 2 (1bpp), so tiles and sprites can only use 2 colors. There are 3 types of graphics: solid, transparent and masked. Converting solid and transparent to mode 0 (or mode 1) needs double space, but masked sprites wouldn't need more space (e.g., in stage 1 all tiles take 7986 bytes, converted to mode 0 (or mode 1) would take 10650 bytes)
So in this case sprites and drawing routines must be rewritten, cannot be directly modified through a patch.
I've done a test in mode 0 using pen 0 as transparent color and LUTs for transparency and mirror, but mode 1 with 4 colors could be done in a similar way.
Z-sorted tiles and graphics are redrawn every frame, the same with all tiles that always are shown in front. The game also uses 4 dirty rects for storing the part of background affected by ninja, enemy and their weapons.
Also source sprite graphics are mirrored on the fly each time an actor changes facing direction.