CPCWiki forum

So, last night I started reading RG141. In it there's a rather nice article on Driller. What really bothered me, though, was that in four pages these were the screenshots used:


-ZX Spectrum: 7 (including 2 giant background ones)
-Amiga: 2
-Other systems: 0.
-CPC: zero.


Yes. A game developed, as also mentioned indeed in the article, on a 6128, gets zero screenshots from the platform. And, it is mentioned that it was developed on a 6128 but somehow they managed to make the article about the Speccy.


Between this, Picachu covers and Halo spreads I'm seriously considering not renewing my subscription...

Doesn't bother me so much these days since AA were notorious when they came to recommending (not reviewing) games. Some of those games were old or for some reason I missed an issue - like the Issue that had Laser Squad reviewed in it, but they couldn't be bothered dumping an screenie with that recommendation, because sometimes a screenshot is the difference deciding if you'll buy the game or not.

Sorry - you don't care about bias in a multi-format history magazine because another magazine 20+ years ago did something that could influence what you'd buy or not?

Quote from: Gryzor on 07:36, 30 April 15
Sorry - you don't care about bias in a multi-format history magazine because another magazine 20+ years ago did something that could influence what you'd buy or not?

Well it's troubling for a magazine that goes a tad under 20 bucks here they couldn't be bothered to pick up an Emulator and run off some screenshots, but I don't think they have ever been bothered with many Amstrad things.


I was merely suggesting AA often recommended games, Laser Squad got a good mentioning when Rod Lawton was editor, though for a long time I had no idea what the game looked like. Another game that got mentioned a bit was Gunship, Gryzor & Target Renegade, along with some of the Freescape games like Driller & Total Eclipse.


I guess from your perspective since you subscribe to a magazine full of Spectrum screenshots and having to pay good money would be quite a frustrating experience, especially now since Emulators and PCs should make it simple in obtaining the relevant screenshots. I'm merely walking into the Newsagent and deciding if there's anything there that's worth my $20. Sadly I haven't come across such an issue of RG. :(

Maybe they just didn't have a CPC to make screenshots on?

Bryce.

Could be :D

But in the past they have asked me to take screenshots for them (for reasons unknown), and I did...

Did the screenshots you took ever appear in the mag

Yes, IIRC they were the Xyphoes Fantasy ones.

Quote from: Gryzor on 07:12, 30 April 15
Between this, Picachu covers and Halo spreads I'm seriously considering not renewing my subscription...

I'm not renewing mine.

I used to read the magazine from cover to cover as soon as it arrived, the past few months, I've not been so quick to do that.
So I've not renewed it.

Same here - used to just dig into it for hours on end, now they sit on my shelf for months before I pick them up and then I skim through most of it :(

I used to buy it avidly but got less and less interested as it became clear only certain devices got favoured as time went on, I started out well balanced but not that balance has gone.

I tweeted about it to RG earlier today, as I expected got no reply from them... they don't deal well with criticism.

Sad to hear peoples views on retro gamer.
I bought a load of eBay a while ago to see what it was like but if it's gone a bit downhill then I probably only buy older issues

I can sell you the first 141 if you're interested :D

Quote from: Gryzor on 07:12, 30 April 15
So, last night I started reading RG141. In it there's a rather nice article on Driller. What really bothered me, though, was that in four pages these were the screenshots used:


-ZX Spectrum: 7 (including 2 giant background ones)
-Amiga: 2
-Other systems: 0.
-CPC: zero.


Yes. A game developed, as also mentioned indeed in the article, on a 6128, gets zero screenshots from the platform. And, it is mentioned that it was developed on a 6128 but somehow they managed to make the article about the Speccy.
Between this, Picachu covers and Halo spreads I'm seriously considering not renewing my subscription...

I saw this post a bit late... I'm glad for that. Else I would have to cry out loud even before lunch.

Ok forget about that magazine, it's obviously crap now. I stop thinking to buy it now.

I wished one day to make a magazine with the CPC Wiki people and we will be than as biased pro-CPC of course!  :P

Quote from: Bryce on 08:43, 30 April 15Maybe they just didn't have a CPC to make screenshots on?Bryce.

Can't be that hard to get an emulator installed.  >:(

I can understand why people would be upset there is no screen shot for Driller, which originated on the CPC. However, it's not like they completely ignored it is it? It got its fair dues in the article.

You have to remember that the CPC market for RG is a lot smaller than the ZX and C64. They have to balance their coverage accordingly. As for newer games getting in RG, there are only so many times they can cover the old formats and games before they are just rehashing old articles. Add into the mix relatively newer systems that are classed as retro now, that will draw in more people from that era of gaming and will further shrink the CPC coverage (as well as the rest) to make room for it. Its inevitable if RG want to keep going.

Quote from: Gryzor on 18:45, 30 April 15
I can sell you the first 141 if you're interested :D

For a moment I thought you meant it and I almost asked how much for  :laugh:

obviously the gorgeousest version, so let's make a lots of pictures of it :
Driller Walkthrough, ZX Spectrum (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh_UTcHcnCY#)
So good I put a longplay of it... and look, it has no colour clashes !!!




oh, and a loosy port of previous one with no sounds and even less colours... damn this CPC is a bad Speccy clone indeed...
Driller - Amstrad CPC - Gameplay by Ataru'75 - [90] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZAQafIrNn4#)

Quote from: EgoTrip on 20:22, 30 April 15
You have to remember that the CPC market for RG is a lot smaller than the ZX and C64... snip...

Oh really? Now we know the reason why the CPC market is smaller. THERE IS NOTHING IN for the CPC!

Quote from: Bryce on 08:43, 30 April 15
Maybe they just didn't have a CPC to make screenshots on?

Bryce.

Are you implying Retro Gamer use real machines for the screen shots? There's no way they did when I used to read it!


You never get those clean edges with a real machine even using the best kit. A real CPC's output looks nothing like any emulator. Which is exactly why I go to so much trouble to use real machines for my video reviews.

I don't know why people bother moaning about Retro Gamer. I gave up on it around issue 90 after buying it every issue since issue 4. Same old features, interviews with the same programmers. Same games, same Nintendo fetish, same shoehorning in of new games claiming they are 'retro'. Boring.


It's exactly why people like us need to fight our own corner. Print media is dead! You put together the total viewing figures for videos the CPC community releases on Youtube every month it will probably be way more than Retro Gamers monthly circulation.


Magazine circulation figures have nosedived in recent years. These days mags would kill for the 35,000 a month AA used to get (which was quite modest at the time considering Your Sinclair was doing twice that).


So don't get upset over some niche publication endlessly recycling the same old material like groundhog day. Lets set our own agenda, do our own thing. You want to write a feature or make a video on CPC Driller? Don't moan about it, go and do it!

Quote from: Gryzor on 18:45, 30 April 15
I can sell you the first 141 if you're interested :D

Why not scan all the Amstrad bits in from that 141?

Guys, I'm not here to defend Retro Gamer but you do realize that Darren Jones (the editor of Retro Gamer) is a former CPC user/owner?


By the way, we interviewed him back in our 100th episode, in which he does talk about the Amstrad: Episode 100 – Your Gaming Past Re-Lived | Retro Asylum (http://retroasylum.com/episode-100-your-gaming-past-re-lived/)

Quote from: Swainy on 00:56, 01 May 15
Guys, I'm not here to defend Retro Gamer but you do realize that Darren Jones (the editor of Retro Gamer) is a former CPC user/owner?

Maybe a former, but this does obviously not shine through in recent publications.


Maybe he should forget about Amstrad and we should forget about RG?

i think the cpc's never really got the coverage much anywhere it deserved which is a shame.

i still believe its a underrated system.

as for games,i never took much notice of reviews in magazines anyway.
i know lots of games i like others dont.

@TFM (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=179) : all their screenshots are taken on emulators, but I think they were having some difficulties with the ones they asked for. No idea what, since I took them within seconds...
   
@EgoTrip (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=337) : coverage used to be fairer in the olden days. Now it's always speccy this, speccy that, with a bit of Commodore sprinkled on top. Even the BBC gets more coverage I think (no hard data). And yes, the CPC market *is* a lot smaller, of course, but that's no excuse for excluding CPC screenshots from an article on a game DEVELOPED ON THE FRIGGING CPC! :D It's not like they didn't have the space - four pages, 9 screenshots plus a selection of similar titles with yet more screens.
   
I will have to disagree with the argument about "only so many times they can cover the old formats". I mean, even they are saying they have only scratched the surface, and I think it's true. In my mind it's time for more in-depth articles. There are several articles that are few pages long and only skin-deep, like the Atari ST one a few issues back. It's not hard to come by material and new stuff to cover. Yes, I realise that it sounds logical to move forward, though I think they are going to slowly abandon their core audience to get to new one. In my mind, though (that's a personal opinion) newer "retro" platforms are not really retro, just... old. I mean, the games themselves... same old rehashed stuff. Why would I care about a game from the XBox era - it's the same as what we're playing today, only with lower specs. Whereas the 8- and 16-bit chapters were *really* different. Anyhow.
   
@seanb (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1200) : well, I guess I might sell them at some point if anyone makes an interesting offer, though it'd probably be easier to offload them one by one...
   
@chinnyhill10 (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=984)  : With regards to shoehorning games in, I find the "Future Classics" section especially hillarious - just a sorry excuse for modern game coverage, and two-page spreads, too! Just ridiculous. Imagine a history magazine covering, say, the earthquake in Nepal because it'll be "future history"...
   
@AMSDOS (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=330)  : scan it? There are PDFs you can get.

@Swainy (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=589) : yes, you're right about Jones, which makes it all the more puzzling. I think he puts his personal preferences behind his editorial duties, as he should, but the whole thing ends up tipping towards the other side.

I'm still dreaming about the day RG does a decent presentation of the CPC - I think they've done two up to now, one several years back and one for the 464 last year, but they were both just fluff-up pieces, nothing new, nothing in depth.

Quote from: Gryzor on 08:48, 01 May 15
@AMSDOS (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=330)  : scan it? There are PDFs you can get.

Hmmm, will that cost me much? Which Issues would you recommend?


Kinda deciding between that and that Ivory Backscratcher  :laugh:

Quote from: Swainy on 00:56, 01 May 15
Guys, I'm not here to defend Retro Gamer but you do realize that Darren Jones (the editor of Retro Gamer) is a former CPC user/owner?


By the way, we interviewed him back in our 100th episode, in which he does talk about the Amstrad: Episode 100 – Your Gaming Past Re-Lived | Retro Asylum (http://retroasylum.com/episode-100-your-gaming-past-re-lived/)

Yes but he himself said he can't justify having an amstrad machine on the cover If I remember correctly.

I'm sure retro gamer wouldn't dare to put on any machine with an even smaller community than the cpc on the cover even though the cpc community doesn't seem that small to me.

If you're a retro gaming magazine based in the uk I would expect them to cover all machines.
Its not like having amstrad in the mag will poison it and turn people off buying it in the future. Wheres this market research that means it's bad to have amstrad in it?
Did they only interview speccy owners?

I have a games master mag from a few years ago that has a special on amstrad and from the sounds of it thats me than a publication dedicated to all old machines has done recently

@Gryzor (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1) good luck selling them one by one.
I have a shit tonne of old and not so old gaming, technological and rock magazines (music not the geological variety) for sale on ebay and it's slooow going unless you know somewhere else to sell them.

But if you decide to sell the megadrive special you already have an interested party

Quote from: seanb on 09:28, 01 May 15
Its not like having amstrad in the mag will poison it and turn people off buying it in the future. Wheres this market research that means it's bad to have amstrad in it?

Oh, don't get me started. In the last few issues they ran a TWO PAGE spread about an online survey they had running - say your opinion, shape your magazine, blahblahblah. It got me excited - "finally, a questionnaire about the quality and content of the magazine? Let's go right now!". Turns out it was just a generic IP survey about general demographic data - how old you are, how much you make, what electronic equipment you're going to buy during the next year... disgusting.

Quote
Did they only interview speccy owners?

Years back I was frequenting the RG forum. I left because it turned out you couldn't mention the word Amstrad without speccy and c64 fanboys jumping in and starting flames. Really - you had great spectrum threads, great commodore threads and they were sailing along nicely, but the moment someone opened an Amstrad-related thread everyone from the other machines felt the need to jump in and trash it. They really have a complex like this. I even complained to Daran (I think) about it, arguing that it skews the perception of the audience because Amstrad fans will just not go through with it, but didn't even get a reply (surprise).

Quote from: Gryzor on 10:17, 01 May 15
Years back I was frequenting the RG forum. I left because it turned out you couldn't mention the word Amstrad without speccy and c64 fanboys jumping in and starting flames. Really - you had great spectrum threads, great commodore threads and they were sailing along nicely, but the moment someone opened an Amstrad-related thread everyone from the other machines felt the need to jump in and trash it. They really have a complex like this. I even complained to Daran (I think) about it, arguing that it skews the perception of the audience because Amstrad fans will just not go through with it, but didn't even get a reply (surprise).

[ot]
This started playing when I was reading your remarks which I thought was somewhat appropriate for them Spectrum, C64 persons.



[/ot]

They don't even sell the magazine in my town these days so I haven't even been able to browse it.

Quote from: Gryzor on 10:17, 01 May 15
Years back I was frequenting the RG forum. I left because it turned out you couldn't mention the word Amstrad without speccy and c64 fanboys jumping in and starting flames. Really - you had great spectrum threads, great commodore threads and they were sailing along nicely, but the moment someone opened an Amstrad-related thread everyone from the other machines felt the need to jump in and trash it. They really have a complex like this. I even complained to Daran (I think) about it, arguing that it skews the perception of the audience because Amstrad fans will just not go through with it, but didn't even get a reply (surprise).

Maybe if I'm being cynical we've found part of the reason why they won't focus on amstrad

Oh, I'm sure about it. They're using the forum to gauge reaction and interests, so if part of the user base is driven out of it it will under-represented in the mag, too.

Also, if you cover a system people will start talking about it in the forum too - if not, they won't, so it's a circle...

Funnily, in the late 80's in french Magazines like "Joystick", there was close to no speccy/C64... very few... and a lot of CPC of course.
Domestic market can be a great thing and French devs would do very few "specC64" and more CPC...


anyway : best retro gaming magazines are actually old magazines from the era.
;D


http://www.abandonware-magazines.org/affiche_mag.php?mag=30 (http://www.abandonware-magazines.org/affiche_mag.php?mag=30)

I did miss seeing CPC screenshots and reviews of CPC games, but it's not the reason I stopped.

I also enjoyed reading about old 80's arcade games, spectrum, c64, msx and other 80's computers.

The 16-bits and newer machines don't interest me. The content has repeated itself a bit and there is more coverage of the "newer" systems.

The first pages I always went to were the homebrew. Then I would look for articles that interested me about the older machines. I skip the newer machines generally.

I noticed there was plenty of CPC love it was mentioned a lot, that has faded a little.

Quote from: Gryzor on 10:17, 01 May 15

Years back I was frequenting the RG forum. I left because it turned out you couldn't mention the word Amstrad without speccy and c64 fanboys jumping in and starting flames. Really - you had great spectrum threads, great commodore threads and they were sailing along nicely, but the moment someone opened an Amstrad-related thread everyone from the other machines felt the need to jump in and trash it. They really have a complex like this. I even complained to Daran (I think) about it, arguing that it skews the perception of the audience because Amstrad fans will just not go through with it, but didn't even get a reply (surprise).

Same reason I left as well. And the same old people sucking up and criticism of the mag being handled badly. Then they started publishing posts from the forums which meant even more sucking up. Entire thing was awful.


And lets be clear here, as should be quite obvious I have an interest in loads of machines not just the CPC. It's not just a CPC problem but a problem related to lots of machines. You going to see an MSX game on the cover? An Atari 8 bit? They believe there are only three 8 bit micros and worship the NES like it was actually of any relevance in the UK (for much of its life it wasn't).


Who cares about the Playstation or endless fluff pieces of the same games? We'll all do our own thing.

Quote from: Gryzor on 11:57, 01 May 15
Oh, I'm sure about it. They're using the forum to gauge reaction and interests, so if part of the user base is driven out of it it will under-represented in the mag, too.

Surveying opinions of a self selected audience will always end well.......

@MacDeath (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=221) : in Greece we had two major multi-format mags, Pixel and User (hm, Sprite too). They were all quite nicely balanced even though the CPC kicked ass in Greece...


@chinnyhill10 (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=984) : THANK YOU!!! For some reason I did post about their ridiculous trend to publish stuff from the forum, saying essentially that if I want to read that I can go onto the forum, no need to waste space in the mag, and that it's purely ego stroking. Let me find it... Ah, here: http://www.retrogamer.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=50045 (http://www.retrogamer.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=50045) . Their reply was both mildly disrespectful and wrong,from the point of assessing feedback: we're not losing sales, so it's ok. In general they really don't handle criticism well - they always and only try to defend their decisions.


And you're right, the problem is not only with the CPC. I'd really, really love to read about lesser systems - and speaking of lesser systems, as you say, why the fuck does NES get the coverage it gets when Sega kicked its ass in Europe?


Going a bit further, their space filling has got atrocious. They waste so many pages on precisely zero content -like the two-page spread of "Is so-and-so- a gaming icon?" which consists of a small blurb on the left page about a developer and a full-page face photo on the other. There! Two pages of content taken care of, let's go for a pint!

Eurgh, don't get me started on the revised history of sega and ninty in Europe now that sega are out of the console making game but ninty aren't.

Quote from: seanb on 21:11, 01 May 15
Eurgh, don't get me started on the revised history of sega and ninty in Europe now that sega are out of the console making game but ninty aren't.

Although at least the bonus is while Nintendo carts are fetching silly money due to being 'fashionable', Master System and Megadrive carts are far more reasonably priced to buy. So those of us who appreciate the Sega systems aren't having to pay through the nose to get games.

Quote from: Bryce on 08:43, 30 April 15
Maybe they just didn't have a CPC to make screenshots on?

Bryce.

what they, Retro Gamer couldn't simply type into google images "amstrad cpc driller screenshots".

seriously Retro Gamer if you write that it was developed on a CPC6128 provide the screenshots from that machine.  A muti format mag is not just Amiga and speccy ;)

Finished #141 last night. Even though it was better than others,I think I spent the least amount of time with it. I really think I'm not renewing my sub. A sad end...

Ok, I'm going to be honest here but bearing in mind that some of Retro Gamer's writers are on or read this forum, also mindful that I've become friendly with Darran (the editor) over time as well (he featured my GX4000 collection in the magazine once, he took part in my big 30th anniversary video, etc).

I have to say for the last 12 months I've not been enjoying the magazine as much, and it really really pains me to say it. But I must stress *not as much* - ie I still love and enjoy the magazine and read at least a good 80% of it each month. I'm still a subscriber and I'm excited when it plops through my letter box. But it has felt there hasn't been as much Amstrad coverage, and the kind of articles I like (about arcade games, 80's computing generally, and the really killer interviews, etc) hasn't quite been the same.

However I'm one person out of many thousands, it's incredibly tough trying to please everyone in such a diverse range of readership. I feel sorry for the BBC Micro, Dragon32, Sam Coupe, etc rabid fans!! Imagine how they feel?! ;)

The issue they're facing is falling circulation generally in the magazine market. And I think the mistake they're making is trying to appeal to an even broader range of readership to cope with it - with now covering Xbox/Playstation 2 etc, more international games, and shifting more towards 16-bit and away from 8-bit. What that causes is trying to please everyone but pleasing no-one.

Take it from me... now I can't tell you too much about what I do to make money (I like to keep these things private) but I run my own events company with a specialised night once a month. It's over a decade old now and still very successful whilst competing nights or even other nights trying to rip me off falling by the wayside in large numbers. The reason being is the night if for a specific genre of music (that still covers a wide range of stuff), but I stick to that and do not ever ever deviate into similar-ish genres to try and appeal to more people and increase attendance. I've been very stubborn about that. The other aforementioned nights did the exact opposite of me and they became very boring very quickly because it's "we've all heard this stuff before" and the gems of genre that you don't get to hear there's no space or time for them. The audience isn't there because they're at mine! And so they die off eventually.

Morale of the story - stick to what you do well and be stubborn about it. People will appreciate it, they will learn more about these machines and get interested in them - they will stick with you as long as you don't forget them.

My big annoyance with the magazine is when there is a feature say on a particular game that was across a wide number of platforms, and in the last year or two they seemed to have focussed on one or maybe two particular machines leaving the others out. Like the CPC. I'm left there shouting at the page going "WHAT ABOUT THE CPC VERSION!!" Or it gets a tiny mention. When there is a perfect chance to talk about the CPC version and they blow it, that's when I get annoyed. I don't mind when there's a specific feature on the Atari ST or Sam Coupe - that's fair enough.

Anyway I know it's very stressful for Darran, it's very hard work finding the right balance. The only feedback he seems to receive is negative which will get to you eventually. But then that's from people on the internet, which in reality is only a small percentage of the people that read the magazine and the rest are happy enough with it.

If you're going to complain, do so constructively and nicely. Make suggestions. I don't want him to eventually snap and say 'fuck it, I've had enough' because he's a huge CPC fan and over the many years has ensured balanced and fair coverage of the Amstrad even if it does feel over the last 12 months it has slipped.

Nicely expressed, mate.

I will disagree only with the fact that Darran gets only negative feedback, I really don't think that's the case; also, the fact that a small percentage of the readership complains certainly doesn't mean the rest are happy. Both these points have to do with the fact that one of market's principles is that few unhappy people will complain. Most will resign to the status quo or leave quietly. And this is something that the people over at RG don't seem to understand. They also, very mistakingly so, equate the feedback they get from the forum with the overall opinion of the userbase. Totally incorrect.

I haven't seen much not-nice and non-constructive criticism, to tell you the truth. I haven't seen anyone trashing this or that - but even if that were the case nobody should snap. You have to look into this 'trashing' and find its root causes instead of whining "oh fuck it".

It's really, really strange how nobody has answered to this specific piece of criticism we're raising here, further convincing me that they're really don't handle criticism well.

I'm quite enjoying the Atari 40 years special that was at my office.

In my case, specially since I have a 1 year old kid, I have no time to read magazines nor place to store them.

Most people can't deal with critics at all, they feel personally attacked. Also constructive critics and sandwhich tactics does not help much.

I only collect select issues these days - the last issue being the Lemmings special.. IIRC, they ignored the CPC version.

Quote from: arnoldemu on 13:16, 01 May 15The first pages I always went to were the homebrew.

That bit is written by a C64 fanboy!!1one

Quote from: cpc4eva on 09:26, 02 May 15
what they, Retro Gamer couldn't simply type into google images "amstrad cpc driller screenshots".

Not really... freelancers have to provide screenshots they've taken when submitting articles, web finds aren't allowed and the editorial team use a selection of what they've been sent. Sometimes the freelancers don't send in enough, others they send too much and the people doing the layout take their pick.

Quote from: Gryzor on 10:01, 03 May 15They also, very mistakingly so, equate the feedback they get from the forum with the overall opinion of the userbase. Totally incorrect.

It's the feedback they get via email or on rare occasions through the post that tends to be given more weight and that's the best way to make a point as well.

I'm curious if the RG team actually know which computers are used by their customers.

Quote from: TMR on 00:40, 04 May 15
That bit is written by a C64 fanboy!!1one

Not really... freelancers have to provide screenshots they've taken when submitting articles, web finds aren't allowed and the editorial team use a selection of what they've been sent. Sometimes the freelancers don't send in enough, others they send too much and the people doing the layout take their pick.

Makes sense if Freelancers aren't out there sourcing Amstrad screenshots, the people putting the magazine together are only going to use what they have.

QuoteIt's the feedback they get via email or on rare occasions through the post that tends to be given more weight and that's the best way to make a point as well.

Would they Generally go for relevant stuff that gets sent to them, or are they usually are specific material?

Quote from: TFM on 02:29, 04 May 15
I'm curious if the RG team actually know which computers are used by their customers.

I don't think it's always about which computers their customers use, more which computers their customers are interested in.

A lot of it is nostalgia I believe, which computers their readers used to own, or used to play on with their friends, the music that was around at that time, which arcade machines they played on.

For me, it's nostalgia. I played on many machines when I was younger and I played on arcade machines when I was on holiday. I remember those times, they were happy and fun. I would save £15 for holiday and spend it all on arcade machines, outrun, bombjack, super sprint, road blasters.. fantastic!

I remember a Dizzy article in RG seemed to ignore the CPC... they also claimed Dizzy originated on the Spectrum..

An box-out about covertape specials ignored the AA37 Dizzy Special Edition even though it came out before Crash's version and while they mentioned Your Sinclair hosted the complete game on their tape, AA's tape containing the same game was also ignored.

(only reason I was looking at the article was for the original Fantasy World Dizzy map)..

(ironically, I was talking to someone about my Dizzy book and he asked what format will I be taking screenshots from. I told him that I would be taking shots primarily from the CPC and Amiga versions but would be showing certain Spectrum and C64 shots, he accused me of bias against the Speccy. I countered saying considering the game originated on the CPC, it would be fitting and he re-countered saying no-one would buy it if there were next to no Spectrum shots)

Quote from: zeropolis79 on 12:30, 04 May 15I countered saying considering the game originated on the CPC, it would be fitting and he re-countered saying no-one would buy it if there were next to no Spectrum shots)

So basically he said you must be biased towards the Speccy because you'll sell more. Ok.

Don't read the Mag myself , I don't know whether they have a regular feature . on the more obscure systems , once a month , would seem like a reasonable approach .

Quote from: Gryzor on 12:51, 04 May 15

So basically he said you must be biased towards the Speccy because you'll sell more. Ok.

It is a bit like a special on Freescape was biased because it was developed on Amstrad CPCs and then does not mention the fact it was not developed on Spectrums

@Puresox (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=511) : Oh yeah, I would really love them to cover more obscure systems. They actually do that from time to time, but not enough, I think. And I'd like to know more about *older* systems...


@dcdrac (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=850) : oh actually they did mention it was developed on a 6128, which makes it all the more ridiculous :D The article actually starts with the Spectrum developer saying he was puzzled as to how he would fit all that on a Spectrum, so you can see it was a one-sided article right from the beginning...

Quote from: Gryzor on 12:51, 04 May 15

So basically he said you must be biased towards the Speccy because you'll sell more. Ok.

For most games/programs they do a comparison showing Speccy, C64, Amstrad, MSX etc.
Yet in this example, no Amstrad screens at all.

Why not show each machine as they normally do? Or show a load of CPC screens because it was developed on CPC, then go and show a machine comparison too?

...becauuuuuse... Bias? Can't think anything else, really, hence the title of the thread...

 

Quote from: arnoldemu on 18:47, 04 May 15
For most games/programs they do a comparison showing Speccy, C64, Amstrad, MSX etc.
Yet in this example, no Amstrad screens at all.

Why not show each machine as they normally do? Or show a load of CPC screens because it was developed on CPC, then go and show a machine comparison too?

Oh, there will be comparison shots but the CPC versions will be the primary 8-bit machine shown in the screenshots.

Quote from: Gryzor on 07:12, 30 April 15
So, last night I started reading RG141. In it there's a rather nice article on Driller. What really bothered me, though, was that in four pages these were the screenshots used:


-ZX Spectrum: 7 (including 2 giant background ones)
-Amiga: 2
-Other systems: 0.
-CPC: zero.


Yes. A game developed, as also mentioned indeed in the article, on a 6128, gets zero screenshots from the platform. And, it is mentioned that it was developed on a 6128 but somehow they managed to make the article about the Speccy.


Between this, Picachu covers and Halo spreads I'm seriously considering not renewing my subscription...

I do not feel it is a problem with Retro Gamer as such, it is the Chris Andrew that wrote that article that is solidy based in the Speccy camp. Otherwise he would have written something about the look and feel of the Amstrad version. BTW, do we know that the Amstrad was developed first for the Amstrad CPC? That a game was developed on a machine doesn't mean that it was developed for it.


In the same magazine, in the System 3 article, there is a quite large picture from the Amstrad version of IK+. For me that picture felt a bit out of place and felt even more wrong as Driller had no CPC shots.


An article that needs Amstrad CPC shots doesn't get it and other articles where the CPC isn't even mentioned gets Amstrad screenshots. Go figure. Its all dependent on who does what in my opinion

Quote from: ivarf on 08:54, 05 May 15

I do not feel it is a problem with Retro Gamer as such, it is the Chris Andrew that wrote that article that is solidy based in the Speccy camp.

A professional shouldn't let bias come through in any article.

As I replied in the RG forum thread, the Freescape engine was developed on the CPC, the games too were developed on the machine and the Speccy version was, as stated clearly in the article, a port from the CPC.

And, as chinnyhill10 said, I really don't get why anyone would distinguish between the authors and the magazine.  It's like saying a publication is shite, but it's not the publication's fault but the authors'. Heck, I know I'd do a more balanced job than that :D If you pick biased authors for your staff then whose fault is it? After all, that's what editorial oversight is there for. You mean to tell me no one took a look before it went to press?

If you're upset about Retro Gamer, well... you won't be happy about the new documentary "Bedrooms To Billions". Not a single solitary mention of the Amstrad. Just one 2 second clip of Robocop.

Heheh :D What machines get mentioned?

Ah FFS... look at a reply I got from Merman on the RG forum:

Quote
I think it's wrong to use the word bias here.

As a writer myself, I know how hard it can be to source screenshots. I always try to balance between formats whenever possible, but time restrictions often lead to me grabbing more from the formats/emulators I am familiar with.

And at the editorial stage there are challenges in terms of size and colour, fitting into the page layout and selecting what looks interesting.

Remember, it's NOT just grabbing screenshots from the Web and using them - that is not allowed without direct permission of the hosting site.

Where to begin... In any case here's what I wrote back:

Quote
Hard to source screenshots?

I had never taken Speccy screenshots before. It took me literally 3.5 minutes (I timed it) to download Spectaculator, find and download Driller, load it and find how to take a screenshot (which is more complex than with CPC emulators). If nothing else, I guess the article takes a fair time to write and polish - if you can't devote a few minutes to take the necessary screenshots then go online and ask for someone to take one for you - by the time your article is finished you're sure to have dozens of them.

And what could be more interesting than different screenshots from different systems? Are you implying that looking at the Speccy again and again is more interesting?

If nothing else, if I were to write an article about a game I'd make sure I played it on all relevant platforms. You know, what games journalists have been doing since the 80s. And this would have enabled me to take screenshots as well.

But with this article, I'm afraid it *is* bias, not just shoddy work. It's not only that the author (apologies, don't remember who it was) didn't spend the least amount of time to do the absolute basic in terms of homework, but from the off it does show that the article is Spectrum-centric despite mentioning it was developed on the CPC.

Quote from: Xyphoe on 15:55, 05 May 15
If you're upset about Retro Gamer, well... you won't be happy about the new documentary "Bedrooms To Billions". Not a single solitary mention of the Amstrad. Just one 2 second clip of Robocop.

So it finally got made.
I'll still watch it and learn something from it but behind gritted teeth  >:(

@Gryzor (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1) maybe he could address the issue of articles that tell you a game was first developed on one system but didn't have any screenshots from said system.

Was it retro gamer that said dizzy was first made on a speccy?

I think his argument is "we're not biased, just useless". I mean, how the fuck is it possible for a geek NOT to be able to take a screenshot? It's not like he's got to learn advanced photoshop skills!

I don't remember about Dizzy to be honest...

Quote from: seanb on 18:36, 05 May 15

Was it retro gamer that said dizzy was first made on a speccy?

Wah?  Did they?  Whoever it was deserves an egg thrown in their face!

An... EGG... *rofl*

Also they never mention the Thomson or the Enterprise... talk about biased dudes...

Well that's a conscious decision on their part because the dedicated communities for those machines are even smaller -much smaller- than ours.

But that's a shame, I think. We're well past the phase where we rediscovered the machines of our childhoods and I'm sure that lots of people, like me, would love to learn more about the lesser systems.

still they may not even spot the difference...

MO5
(http://mo5.com/musee/jeuxvideo/images/mo5/green/niv1b.png)
Speccy
(http://zx-games.ru/zximgs/green-beret/green-beret_2.gif)

Quote from: Gryzor on 20:50, 05 May 15
Well that's a conscious decision on their part because the dedicated communities for those machines are even smaller -much smaller- than ours.

But that's a shame, I think. We're well past the phase where we rediscovered the machines of our childhoods and I'm sure that lots of people, like me, would love to learn more about the lesser systems.

That's always the same : At first they have nothing, they take risks by going on a very niche market (who would have said that a magazine about retro computing would have been so succesful at the time), then when they become sucessful, they are afraid to go back down the ladder and then they begin targeting main stream audience more and more and become reluctant to take more risks.

Quote from: MacDeath on 20:57, 05 May 15
still they may not even spot the difference...

MO5
(http://mo5.com/musee/jeuxvideo/images/mo5/green/niv1b.png)
Speccy
(http://zx-games.ru/zximgs/green-beret/green-beret_2.gif)

<bias="on">This speccy game is far more beautiful!</bias>

Quote from: Carnivac on 18:42, 05 May 15
Wah?  Did they?  Whoever it was deserves an egg thrown in their face!

Maybe they didn't. I'm sure someone in this thread said something about dizzy someone claiming dizzy was first made on the speccy

I think the MO5 and Speccy shots will make their lives much easier, since it's probably too difficult to take screenshots from the MO5 :D

(Oh wait, there's a MESS driver for MO5, so...).

@remax (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=314) : lol :D

Quote from: Xyphoe on 15:55, 05 May 15
If you're upset about Retro Gamer, well... you won't be happy about the new documentary "Bedrooms To Billions". Not a single solitary mention of the Amstrad. Just one 2 second clip of Robocop.

This is exactly why we as a community need to plough our own furrow. Nobody else is going to do it for us.

Also we want more MSX as well :
(http://images.generation-msx.nl/software_game/fab2ee06_m.png)

Quote from: Gryzor on 21:05, 05 May 15
I think the MO5 and Speccy shots will make their lives much easier, since it's probably too difficult to take screenshots from the MO5 :D

(Oh wait, there's a MESS driver for MO5, so...).

@remax (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=314) : lol :D

I have zero sympathy for anyone who claims its difficult to take screenshots. You should see the mess of cables my gaming corner now is since I started doing the videos! I used to have all the video out cables all neatly laid out and everything!  :D

Heck, the CPC is even shown in the 2600 E.T. Documentary, Atari: Game Over (which I'm watching right now).


Apologies for the quality and the inability to remove the UI when paused:


[attach=2]

Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 21:08, 05 May 15

I have zero sympathy for anyone who claims its difficult to take screenshots. You should see the mess of cables my gaming corner now is since I started doing the videos! I used to have all the video out cables all neatly laid out and everything!  :D

Yeah, no. You can't claim you're a journalist and being unable to do something so basic. It means you have exactly zero idea about how computers work.

Quote from: zeropolis79 on 12:30, 04 May 15
I remember a Dizzy article in RG seemed to ignore the CPC... they also claimed Dizzy originated on the Spectrum..

I'm glad I hadn't imagined reading it  :D

Ah, the author replied! :)

QuoteGood evening all, and especially Gryzor.

I'm the freelancer who wrote the Driller feature. Thank you Andrew for your defence and you're correct there is no bias. But as Grzyor rightly points out, it is not hard to source screenshots and indeed I did submit several Amstrad and C64 screenshots, but unfortunately I failed to specify in the feature that the Amstrad ones (and C64) should have been included and the spectrum less so, or at least evenly. It's up to us as the writers to ensure the designers are informed on this as we can't expect them to be au fait with all the systems, so that's my bad.

I would point out however with the issue of "lead" platforms however that all the Z80 versions were developed on the 6128 using Devpac and the amstrad and spectrum versions were developed concurrently by Chris Andrew. Saying it was originally an amstrad game would be like saying most other latter games of the 8-bits' lives were PC games because they were coded in that environment or anything developed on a Sage computer system was actually a "sage" game. I think the article focuses mainly on the engine (which is what I thought readers would be most interested in, how they did it on the 8 bits, let's be honest it wasn't anything special on the 16 bits) which is why I didn't have room for mentioning little things like the c64 music unfortunately.

So there you go, no bias, no anti-amstrad sentiment, just one little thing I missed because I was probably overstretched for a couple of weeks (I did an article for GamesTM this month too although I'm not offering this as an excuse). I'm a bit disappointed if you thought the article was shoddy, I didn't think it was that bad, but I hope it didn't spoil your enjoyment of the rest of the mag too much.

Now I'm off to play some Sorcery+ and Roland Goes To Hell

Going to reply tomorrow, I'm already in bed. He may have had good intentions, but the magazine certainly screwed up, and the article is spectrum-focused indeed regardless of screenshots. Anyone knows the exact history of  Freescape?

Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 21:08, 05 May 15

I have zero sympathy for anyone who claims its difficult to take screenshots. You should see the mess of cables my gaming corner now is since I started doing the videos! I used to have all the video out cables all neatly laid out and everything!  :D

What do you use to capture your amstrad videos?

Quote from: seanb on 21:37, 05 May 15
What do you use to capture your amstrad videos?

I don't want to derail the thread so I'll keep it brief. If you want to capture from a real CPC you have to convert the RGB to component. From there any professional capture card with analogue component inputs will do it. This applies to screenshots or video.

Cheers

Quote from: Gryzor on 21:34, 05 May 15
Ah, the author replied! :)

Going to reply tomorrow, I'm already in bed. He may have had good intentions, but the magazine certainly screwed up, and the article is spectrum-focused indeed regardless of screenshots. Anyone knows the exact history of  Freescape?

An Amstrad was used to write it (as was the case for a lot of non-PDS developed stuff) but I'm pretty sure the Speccy was considered the most important target of the Z80 machines, in much the same way the graphics in Dizzy were specifically designed to be a good fit for the Spectrum's attribute grid.

It may look like bias, but the simple truth is that back in the day the Spectrum was a larger, and thus more important, market to sell in (hence Amstrad buying it out)

Quote from: Gryzor on 18:37, 05 May 15
I think his argument is "we're not biased, just useless". I mean, how the fuck is it possible for a geek NOT to be able to take a screenshot? It's not like he's got to learn advanced photoshop skills!

I'm not so sure, it's something to ask them. When I send screenshots to CPC-Power Kukulcan prefers screenshots without the Interlace lines, but I don't know what RG want, for example taking screenshots from the Emulator is straightforward, but what if RG want screenshots from the Real Computer?

CPC wasn't really marked by scanlines effect on screen... surely the CRT pixel and moiré was there, but I quite never saw any scanlines/interlace lines.

Sure pixels and colours weren't as squared and clean as on modern renditions, but still.
To me this "scanlines" effect is a legend.

(http://www.pixeljoint.com/files/icons/full/cpc464readylarge.png)

I think that the scanlines thing comes from arcade machines, in wich you were playing very close to the screen. But still, I don't remember seeing scanlines everywhere on the arcades either.

Quote from: MacDeath on 00:55, 06 May 15
CPC wasn't really marked by scanlines effect on screen... surely the CRT pixel and moiré was there, but I quite never saw any scanlines/interlace lines.

Sure pixels and colours weren't as squared and clean as on modern renditions, but still.
To me this "scanlines" effect is a legend.

(http://www.pixeljoint.com/files/icons/full/cpc464readylarge.png)

If you played on the green screen you saw Scanlines.
have a Sony crt for my megadrive etc and there are lots of lovely scanlines as well as on my colour plus monitor.
Maybe you never noticed them when younger because they were always there and that's how it was.

Please open a new thread.

Sorry for the bulk reply, i was away at Play Blackpool for three days, the last of which saw me going home with a cuddly Spiro The Dragon and a raging toothache - right now i'm propped up on all manner of painkillers and been told to stay off work for a couple of days until i can get into the emergency dentist, so i'm slowly and erratically catching up...

Quote from: TFM on 02:29, 04 May 15
I'm curious if the RG team actually know which computers are used by their customers.

i'm assuming it's combination of direct feedback from readers via various sources, indirect feedback from sales (some things shift more copies on the cover than others for example) and the home computer market of the 1980s.

Quote from: AMSDOS on 04:19, 04 May 15Would they Generally go for relevant stuff that gets sent to them, or are they usually are specific material?

There are requests from "on high" for specific pieces once in a while, but generally speaking the freelancers pitch ideas which interest them and the ones that the editorial team feel would make a good story are commissioned.

Quote from: andycadley on 00:01, 06 May 15in much the same way the graphics in Dizzy were specifically designed to be a good fit for the Spectrum's attribute grid.

The Olivers' website was a bit vague about Dizzy's origins the last time i looked and they use Spectrum screenshots and cover art for it's entry as well... has anyone ever asked them for a definitive answer?

Quote from: TMR on 16:09, 06 May 15

The Olivers' website was a bit vague about Dizzy's origins the last time i looked and they use Spectrum screenshots and cover art for it's entry as well... has anyone ever asked them for a definitive answer?

Did you not see them at the play blackpool thing?

From their Let's Play: Dizzy video on youtube it sounds like it was built simultaneously on CPC and Spectrum with the graphics and memory being designed to work around the Speccy's limitations (like the way Dizzy constantly bobs up and down is so you can still see him when attritbue clashes would otherwise camoflage him against the background) and their previous games (Super Robin Hood and Ghost Hunters) were produced on CPC.

Well, that was easy:


[attachimg=1]

I thought of asking them but I felt I'd possibly tweeted them too much recently.  :)

Haha doesn't matter, the truth is out there :D

Regarding how Darran, personally, and RG generally handles criticism and complaints.


I mentioned the Sega/Nintendo issue, and Darran replied, so the following ensued:


Darran: That's a drum that's not been beaten for a while...

Me: Really not sure about whatever on earth you might mean. Unless the comment was directed elsewhere, please don't assume I'm au courrant with what is being said.

Darran: It's a reference to everyone constantly saying we are pro Nintendo, when we're really not. It comes and goes until a new flavour of the month comes along.

Me: Yeah, well, in my book "boooring this has been said before" is not an effective form of assessing critique... And if others have been saying it, well then...


So, it seems that complaints are "flavour of the month" for them. Screw it, I'm really not renewing my subscription. Not only because the quality of the magazine has gone south, but also because I don't feel like being treated like an idiot, whining child.

I suspect what he's trying to say is that no matter what gets published, they'll get letters saying "You're biased in favour of X", where X is something different each time. It's a no win game for any multiplatform magazine and particularly one which, by it's nature, covers an extremely wide variety of platforms.

Oh indeed, I know that. You can't keep everyone happy at all times.

However, this ABSOLUTELY does not give you the right to reply like that instead of answering to the criticism. If you think you're right, defend that with data. I'm sure he knows exactly how many inches or pages (and don't start me on those ridiculous Picachu covers...) they have devoted to each system. I've literally never seen such bad handling of criticism from a publication before. You don't have to work in marketing or PR to know that this is something to definitely avoid - being ironic with your paying customers.


[Edit] Btw, I wonder how many have complained about anti-Nintendo bias...

Exactly!!! And this lesson people should learn well! Any kind of critics is very valuable (83% of unsatisfied customer don't give critics, they just quit. So critics is a scarce good). Even if critics is not provided in a perfect diplomatic way it still can serve its purpose: To make things better.  :) 

Yes, but there's an exception to that rule: hobbyist products you don't pay for.

Quote from: Gryzor on 19:21, 06 May 15
Yes, but there's an exception to that rule: hobbyist products you don't pay for.

Out of curiosity: Why should that be an exception?

Obviously nobody cares about that exception anyway, just look at this forum.[nb]I can tell from own experiences. First hand of you like.[/nb]

But I don't get the connection to this thread. Back to topic.

Because when you get something for free you lose your right to make critique that's not elegant, plain and simple.

Darran went on...

Darran: Except no one's saying that. I'm simply highlighting the fact that it's not been mentioned for an age.
Me: Ohhh right. And because no one has said it in a while it gives you the right to be ironic. Gotcha.
Darran: You can think what you like, but that's the truth. You're clearly in a tizz about your Amstrad screenshots, so I'm heading off into the sunset and leaving you the thread.

What. The. Fuck. I explained to him that obviously the notion of Customer Service is beyond him and told him how 96% or so of dissatisfied customers do not complain, but he deleted it.

Ehm. Ah. Ok. Now I guess I got it. Thanks for pointing that out.

Very mature of them...

Okaaaay... it's like they don't even want our money. 

Yuck. I bet my right arm there's not a chance on Earth they'd print that on the cover if that quote was about the Speccy... What assholes...

Quote from: Carnivac on 19:30, 20 May 15
Okaaaay... it's like they don't even want our money.

Well, after the screenshot malarkey in the previous issue, as Darran assured me as if they're making me a personal favour, this issue was running late because they had to retrofit it with more CPC screens. I guess they had to make up for it somehow...

Hewson managed to publish some really good games for the CPC Cybernod series the Storm series, Nebulous come to mind, looked good and played well and yet Hewson says the Amstrad was souless, maybe I should ask Retrogame to have someone saying the Spectrum had god awful colour clash on the next front cover?

Yeah, probably. Imagine that, trying not to laugh, the RG cover saying "Shock! Horror! The Spectrum 'high resolution' was much worse than other machines! Colour clashing made so many games shite!".


Yeah, in my dreams.

How Odd , I was just watching some walkthroughs of games, whilst watching Nebulus  I came across someone mentioning about a Hewson kickstarter project, Book about the old days of the business. I thought I'd come on here and ask if anyone had read it or had any info on it , and lo and behold , I instantly spot this . So obviously he's a persona non grata, round here. Wierd how things intertwine? ???

Dunno, holding out till I read the actual interview. At this point I'm pissed with RG rather than Hewson.

The book hasn't come out yet, I've backed it.

On the issue of that comment ,on the front cover , it does appear to be childish goading, going on.There are plenty of positives the guy could have been quoted of saying with no relation to any particular machine. So It does appear that you have obviously got under the magazines skin. And have shown them to be quite pathetic in there professional vision. 

Yeah, that's what's annoyed me somewhat about this.  They specifically chose that quote out of the whole interview to put right there on the front cover.  Whether the guy feels that way isn't the issue.  RG slapping those words on the front of the magazine is.  Not sure if they're trying to be offensive or deliberatly trying to stir up some controversy but it's got me not wanting to bother even reading the magazine (even if I could find it in my little town).

There's plenty better things you can spend £4.99 on.

Quote from: Puresox on 20:08, 20 May 15
On the issue of that comment ,on the front cover , it does appear to be childish goading, going on.

It's pathetic isn't it? Just a staggering display of maturity from a magazine that has been stuck in a rut for the last 100 issues.


140 odd issues? Remind me of how many editors, staff and complete redesigns Amstrad Action got through in 117 issues......

@Puresox (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=511) : it makes absolutely no sense to put a negative quote on a cover instead of the (I guess) multitude of lovely and interesting things Andrew hewson said. No sense other than trying to rile people.

@Carnivac (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=50) : nailed it. I can respect everyone's opinion, and I'm grateful to Hewson for producing marvelous games for our machine - I bet every single producer had their fav machine after all. But even from purely an editorial point of view, placing that quote on the cover will only serve to alienate part of the readership...

@chinnyhill10 (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=984) : been reading several C+VG issues these days; it's amazing how much it progressed year on year, every year.

Quote from: Anonymous X on 19:20, 20 May 15
Very mature of them...

Btw, mate, I used your photo in a tweet of mine, hope you don't mind :)

I tried to upload a photo from games master in 2011 about the cpc but it failed the checks
ah well. Basically it's a nice retrospective and there was a pithy comment from me about how it seems from what I've read that's more coverage that retro gamer had given the cpc for a while.

CVG is still going and mags cost £5?
They at least come with a dvd?

Of course the Amstrad CPC was soulless. It's a machine. Machines don't have souls.

Quote from: EgoTrip on 22:22, 20 May 15
Of course the Amstrad CPC was soulless. It's a machine. Machines don't have souls.

Remember Soul Of A Robot? Giving a machine a soul is bad news.  :laugh:

Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 23:30, 20 May 15

Remember Soul Of A Robot? Giving a machine a soul is bad news.  :laugh:

Look at what giving souls to humans has done.
Personally anything that'll speed up the inevitable machine uprising to cleanse the world of us is fine by me and if it starts with a cpc 464 I'll be more the happier

Just sent this to the Editor

Dear Sir





Until recently I was a regular reader of your Retro Gamer magazine, I did enjoy it, it seemd to be quite nuetral in its coverage of all systems, until recently, I was going to buy the magazine as I usually do and then saw on the front cover the quote from Mr Hewson saying the Amstrad was a souless machine, he is certainly entitled to his view, what I do not understand is why it was placed on the front cover?




For the record I had and still do most of the major 8 bit and 16 bit devices,  why single out the Amstrad CPC for such treatment?

Retro Gamer - Imagine Publishing (http://www.imagine-publishing.co.uk/portfolio/magazines/RetroGamer)

if Mr hewson felt that way, I'm surprised he releases games for the CPC

@seanb (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1200) : (ah, the old image bug. Just try to open your photo in some program, then save it again from there so as to change its crc, then try uploading again) No, C+VG stopped its printed publication back in 2004, I'm reading issues from between 1987 and 1992 :D


@EgoTrip (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=337) : you mean I talk to it in vain every night? That its hum is not a hum of happiness?


@dcdrac (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=850) : of course you did right, though I don't think he'll care much to reply. But the more, the better.


@zeropolis79 (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=115) : why? as I said before, I bet every produced had machines they loved and others they didn't. But a company is a company, and if he thought it was a viable platform he'd produce games... it's not like he programmed them himself.

Quote from: zeropolis79 on 02:12, 21 May 15
if Mr hewson felt that way, I'm surprised he releases games for the CPC

Why? It's all about the money.

The Oliver Twins - We created our games on the CPC to avoid using the terrible rubber keys of the Spectrum.

That would never end up on the cover.  :)
(ok it's not a direct quote but pretty much what they said in a recent interview and you get the point).

The title that'd go on the cover would probably be something like "The Oliver Twins Can't Afford an Add-on Keyboard for their Speccy!" :D

Here's the article from GamesMaster in 2011
I've had to link to the picture, still can't upload it  :'(


(http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l514/Gambit771/GamesMaster%20cpc_zpstvxti9ig.jpg)

I have Tower Toppler as it's known on the Atari 7800 and I reckon Nebulus stacks up well on comparison. Yes Nebulus doesn't have the Bonus game sequence in-between towers, though it probably would of meant a certain Multi-load if Hewson went ahead with it and would have been going to too much trouble, the games better as it is.

Quote from: seanb on 11:54, 21 May 15
Here's the article from GamesMaster in 2011

That's a nice article even if I don't agree with all the games mentioned.   I like the bit that says 'loyal fighting force of enthusiasts'.  Hell yeah!   8)

Quote from: Carnivac on 12:07, 21 May 15
That's a nice article even if I don't agree with all the games mentioned.   I like the bit that says 'loyal fighting force of enthusiasts'.  Hell yeah!   8)

Yeah, no Outrun  >:(

heh.

I should point out in case anyone mistakes what I said is that I agree with sooome of the games (Rick 2, Gryzor and a few others), not all.

Still think SwitchBlade should be in there.  CPC definitely had the best 8-bit version.

And Chase HQ.

And Operation Wolf.

And..

 

Quote from: AMSDOS on 12:02, 21 May 15
I have Tower Toppler as it's known on the Atari 7800 and I reckon Nebulus stacks up well on comparison. Yes Nebulus doesn't have the Bonus game sequence in-between towers, though it probably would of meant a certain Multi-load if Hewson went ahead with it and would have been going to too much trouble, the games better as it is.

That's one thing I will give Hewson, with the exception of Deliverance (I think but I never had it), all their games were single loaders.

Dizzy games were better on the CPC than the C64.. although I must admit, the tune to C64 Treasure Island Dizzy was good.

Quote from: seanb on 12:12, 21 May 15
Yeah, no Outrun  >:(

Can an admin change Seanb's username to "Captain Wrong"?  ;D

How about I change the topic's title to "anything goes"? :D

Quote from: dcdrac on 00:19, 21 May 15
Retro Gamer - Imagine Publishing (http://www.imagine-publishing.co.uk/portfolio/magazines/RetroGamer)

Hi there.
I never received this letter so apologies if you're waiting for a reply.
The reason we used that quote is the reason why all magazines use quotes like this. It's to grab your attention.
I personally don't agree with it at all, but it's a strong quote that I knew would get a reaction. It wasn't used to bash Amstrad owners. If he'd said it about C64 or Spectrum that would have gone on there.
Anyway, I didn't want anyone to think that I was ignoring your email, so I thought I'd pop in and say hello.


Oh and there's also a six page article on the Amstrad GX4000 with a mini making of Burning Rubber in the next issue and we have a minority report planned for the CPC 6128 range of games. We're not a CPC-focused magazine sadly, so if you're buying Retro Gamer purely for Amstrad articles you're inevitably going to be disappointed some months.

 :laugh:

Yeah. Except I've read lots of negative comments about the ZX (mostly) in the magazine, and none of them made it to the cover... unless I'm mistaken. Kudos for admitting that you're designing the cover on its baiting/trolling value, though.


It's doubly sad because I severely doubt (not having read the interview yet) that this quote was the salient point of Andrew Hewson's interview. From what Rob told me it was a reply to a question about his favorite machine to work on. Taking a quote out of context like that and placing it on the cover is hardly compatible with journalistic integrity, from what I remember from my days dabbling in media studies.


But, thanks for taking the time to sign up and dive into it.


As an Amstrad fan I really love reading about my favorite machine, naturally; however, being a retro fan in general and having read everything there is out there on the Amstrad more or less, I enjoy reading about other platforms probably more - learning new stuff. But that's a separate issue from showing preferential treatment for other machines.

Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 12:42, 21 May 15

Can an admin change Seanb's username to "Captain Wrong"?  ;D

No  :-[

Ultimately, I was replying to someone who has genuinely tried to contact the magazine and couldn't. I look forward to the continued RG hate when the next issue comes out.

Ultimately, Darran, this is a public forum. So if you don't like replies to a public post, may I suggest the function of PMs instead of being snarky? Very useful function, that.

I don't care mate :) you're entitled to your opinion.
It's a public forum you can say what you like. If I worried about everything negative thing said about the mag (real or inaccurate) I'd have stopped 14 years ago. ultimately I know it's just the caring of someone who's passionate about a piece of their past. I certainly don't bode any ill will against. After all you helped me out in the past.

Why, we've long established you don't care, no need to emphasize it. Good to hear you're finding this 'good evening reading', the whole world could do with a bit less maturity every now and then.

See that's why this is a waste of time. You're convinced you're right and if there's one thing I've learned. You can never win an argument with a disgruntled fanboy.

I love the Amstrad, I always will. If you genuinely think I have some bizarro scheme to discredit the Amstrad because some screenshots weren't taken for your favourite console in a one-off article once then that is up to you.


I won't be adding anything else here as it's clear you have no interest in listening to me and want to continue spinning your anti RG propaganda.


As you were my cpc loving comrade.

Quote from: Darran Lee Jones on 14:39, 21 May 15bizarro scheme to discredit the Amstrad because some screenshots weren't taken for your favourite console

Editor of a games magazine doesn't know the difference between a computer and a console.

Darren

Tahnk you for the reply I now understand the logic, for me Hewson seemed to get the best out of the "soulless" Amstrad when I got my CPC the c64 I had got packed away after a few months, kept the Spectrum pugged in had to much stuff for it not to.

Quote from: Darran Lee Jones on 14:39, 21 May 15
See that's why this is a waste of time. You're convinced you're right and if there's one thing I've learned. You can never win an argument with a disgruntled fanboy.

I love the Amstrad, I always will. If you genuinely think I have some bizarro scheme to discredit the Amstrad because some screenshots weren't taken for your favourite console in a one-off article once then that is up to you.

I won't be adding anything else here as it's clear you have no interest in listening to me and want to continue spinning your anti RG propaganda.

As you were my cpc loving comrade.

So, I guess the fact that you don't convince me (or others) means I'm a "disgruntled fanboy". I guess you're used to everyone becoming 'convinced' once you've uttered your excuses[nb]this was the second time I complained about lack of CPC coverage in screen shots. The excuse was the exact same both times, and both times you acknowledged there should be more. How come the same mistake never happens with the Spectrum shots, I don't know. And naturally it wasn't a "one-off", and that article was just so blatantly obvious, but of course you choose to cherry-pick on criticism[/nb]. Jawohl mein Kommandant! But, mein Kommandant, allow me to say it's utterly ridiculous to spin the criticism into claiming "a bizarro scheme" (sign of how you interpret criticism - "if they're not with us they're out to get us"). The anti-CPC bias doesn't necessarily mean you actively discredit the CPC, but foremost that the CPC suffers in favour of the other platform(s) disproportionately.


@chinnyhill10 (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=984) : well, there's the GX :D

I have noticed in general most vitriol directed towards the CPC is mostly aimed at Alan Sugar and not the machine itself.

No love lost for Sir Alan; I don't think anyone would mind that, though I don't remember the last time I read a comment about him.

The Independent newspaper had an article about him and the CPC last year most of the hostile comments did not address themselves to the CPC at all and I have noticed that in other forums as well.

Most people just say it was rubbish and never go into why, they just say something like the Spectrum was better, which is patently daft, I guess the CPC is reserved for some sort of unfounded hatred.

I won't go into that. But I never got why Sugar got the rap all by himself, whereas Sinclair is so loved. We're talking about a mad scientist who, romantic as it is, invented a couple of lovely things including the ZX series, lots of crap and ultimately drove his company into the ground, unable to keep up with times or run a business.

I am less kind to Clive Sinclair, the actual tech was not that great and other people designed and invented it, what he was good at was cutting corners and making it cheaper, until Alan Sugar hoved into view he too did the same but made a better product.

Couldn't agree more, but Sinclair did have the vision earlier; if it wasn't for him it's not certain Sugar would have caught on to the home computing market (I think he would, but Sinclair was a catalyst). And Sinclair did other stuff too, like the calculators or the mini TVs (then again so did Sugar).

I would say Atari were ahead of Sinclair, the calculators texas Instruments were ahead of him too, the mini tvs I cannot say, I recall seeing a Sinclair one, once a long time ago.

Yeah, but Atari was much more expensive. I can't speak for the success of the calculators or the mini TVs, but from what I understand they were inspirational.


And of course both the MK14 and the ZX were invented by others, but it *was* his company that was the enabler.


Speaking of companies, I seem to remember Sinclair was not the first one he ran into the ground, Radionics shared a similar fate :D


But oh, where would we be without the C5!

At the same time the QL was rushed out, if Sinclair had not not interfered with its development it might have been a far better machine than it was.

I love my QL. What a lovely piece of crap!

the Ql could have been so good, alas...

Quote from: dcdrac on 16:33, 21 May 15
Most people just say it was rubbish and never go into why, they just say something like the Spectrum was better, which is patently daft, I guess the CPC is reserved for some sort of unfounded hatred.

People hate what they don't understand. It's highly likely that the people who have written that have never played on a CPC for any length of time. Also people are incredibly protective about their first home computer, so if the first machine you ever owned was a Spectrum as far as you're concerned it was the bestest thing in the world and always will be.


A lot of that even continues to this day. Go on the Retro Gamer forum and you'll see plenty of men in their 30-50 arguing over which 8-bit computer was best. It may well happen here but I've not checked other threads. History has shown us that all three systems (Amstrad, C64 and Spectrum) excellent in certain areas over their peers, but you'll rarely hear an owner of said machine admit that. It crazy, it's silly, but it's not going to change.

A lot of people were "Ahead of Sinclair" but what Sinclair did was release affordable computers.

The was no way that I could afford Commodore or Atari in 1981 but I could afford a ZX81 then a Spectrum.

Quote from: Darran Lee Jones on 17:24, 21 May 15
People hate what they don't understand. It's highly likely that the people who have written that have never played on a CPC for any length of time. Also people are incredibly protective about their first home computer, so if the first machine you ever owned was a Spectrum as far as you're concerned it was the bestest thing in the world and always will be.


A lot of that even continues to this day. Go on the Retro Gamer forum and you'll see plenty of men in their 30-50 arguing over which 8-bit computer was best. It may well happen here but I've not checked other threads. History has shown us that all three systems (Amstrad, C64 and Spectrum) excellent in certain areas over their peers, but you'll rarely hear an owner of said machine admit that. It crazy, it's silly, but it's not going to change.

oh I know sadly, I work in IT support to this day and I know there is no real technical difference between an Apple computer and non Apple computers hardware, have both work on both daily,  you try telling people that and they look at you like you are some kind of nutcase, I love OSX, Linux and Unix and windows 7, Windows 10 looks promising.

In my opinion the CPC 6128 succeeded in doing what the QL was designed to do and failed to do.

Darren

A nice article might be about the new cartridge that has been developed and now shipped that allows GX4000 and Plus machine owners to have al the carts released on one, it is a brilliant piece of kit works really well, for the GX4000 itself you need a more hefty power supply than the original Amstrad one.

SINCLAIR QL - Boxed - Tested & Working | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SINCLAIR-QL-Boxed-Tested-Working-/231568285954?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item35ea8ba102)

Does that really say 1961 on that screen?

Quote from: zeropolis79 on 12:37, 21 May 15

That's one thing I will give Hewson, with the exception of Deliverance (I think but I never had it), all their games were single loaders.

Deliverance came on one of those later AA covertapes when they were still supplying the Plastic Boxes I think, but I can't remember if it came before or after Nebulus since I have no conveniently misplaced my AA notes.  :o

Quote from: dcdrac on 19:10, 21 May 15
Darren

A nice article might be about the new cartridge that has been developed and now shipped that allows GX4000 and Plus machine owners to have al the carts released on one, it is a brilliant piece of kit works really well, for the GX4000 itself you need a more hefty power supply than the original Amstrad one.

Hmm, I'll make sure it's added to the GX4000 article that's currently being worked on. Oh and it's Darran, not Darren. It's welsh, but please don't hold that against me ;P

Quote from: Darran Lee Jones on 09:05, 22 May 15
Hmm, I'll make sure it's added to the GX4000 article that's currently being worked on. Oh and it's Darran, not Darren. It's welsh, but please don't hold that against me ;P

no, well only in years that Wales beat England in the 6 nations ;)

Studied in Cardiff. Love Wales. Even the old lady at the till at the dormitory shop who would only talk to us in Welsh :D

Ok, for the record, here's Hewson's quote. It was a reply to a reader's question:

Quote

crusto: Which 8-bit system did you enjoyworking with most?
Hewson: I had fun with the ZX80 and more particularly the ZX81, but they were both soon superseded. I liked the simplicity of the ZX Spectrum but enjoyed the greater sophistication of the C64. I always felt the Amstrad CPC was a bit soulless. The BBC machine annoyed me in a vague sort of way because I felt the dead hand of television moguls hovering behind it.

A single one-sided opinion from one person. Why are you getting all worked up about it? Who is Hewson anyway? I've never heard of him.

Bryce.

Who is Hewson? Let's see... Hewson - CPCWiki (http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Hewson)


Nobody's being worked up about his view, he's entitled to it and that's it. The issue is with that quote being put right on the cover[nb]Admittedly, putting a quote like "BBC: The Dead Hand of TV Moguls" on the cover doesn't quite sound that nice[/nb].

Ok read the page, some guy who had a company and they wrote a few games for the CPC. So his opinion is somehow more important than anyone elses? Why does it matter? It's still just one persons opinion.

I also noticed that from the 30 odd games his company wrote, we only have Wiki pages about two of them, so obviously our opinion of him/his company isn't all that high either.

Bryce.

I am staying out of this one. I like the mag, and enjoy the multi  format content. OK perhaps a CPC screenshot or 2 was missing in the driller article. But on the whole does this really matter? I thought we had all grown up to a point we could appreciate the various retro and 8bit systems for their individual talents and strengths. The text in the driller article, stating where it was developed was far more important than a few screenshots or a tag-line on the cover.

@Bryce (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=225) : again, it's not about what he said. (and, actually, it's a shame we don't have more pages on Hewson's titles; certainly their CPC hits/classics were many more than the two).


@CraigsBar (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=482) : I appreciate what you say, but it still doesn't answer to what has been actually said. It's not, of course, about those "2 screenshots" or about that one tag-line. Alas, if only. It's *precisely* because we have grown up and appreciate ALL the various old systems for their individual strengths.


I removed one post because, come on people, no need for personal debates. Although I admit I was a bit quick in deleting it instead of editing it, so feel free to re-post - but *please* no finger-pointing.

ok Darran check out this link

CPC Plus cartridge replacement : one more (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/cpc-plus-cartridge-replacement-one-more/885/)

Quote from: Gryzor on 22:45, 22 May 15
I removed one post because, come on people, no need for personal debates. Although I admit I was a bit quick in deleting it instead of editing it, so feel free to re-post - but *please* no finger-pointing.

and with that I hereby blame the English Language for creating confusion.  :D

Hewson , produced some great titles for the Amstrad, IMO. One of my favourite publishers.

All the Hewson games I had were curtesy of AA covertapes! I had Cybernoid and Stormlord on their own..

Quote from: zeropolis79 on 18:16, 23 May 15
All the Hewson games I had were curtesy of AA covertapes! I had Cybernoid and Stormlord on their own..

I think when they were leading up AA100 and beyond the covertapes were:


AA98 - The Blues Brothers
AA99 - Stormlord
AA100 - Elite
AA101 - Exolon
AA102 - Cybernoid 2
AA103 - Nebulus?
AA104 - Deliverance?
AA105 - Uridium?


Magazine Covers will give it away which I'm about to Check, yes so I had Nebulus correct, but Deliverance came after Uridium with AA105,


AA106 - Zynaps

Maybe open a new thread about Hewson?

Quote from: Gryzor on 16:37, 21 May 15
But I never got why Sugar got the rap all by himself, whereas Sinclair is so loved. We're talking about a mad scientist who, romantic as it is, invented a couple of lovely things including the ZX series, lots of crap and ultimately drove his company into the ground, unable to keep up with times or run a business.

Sinclair was and come to think of it is almost the definition of an eccentric inventer; he had as many misses as he did hits yes but, generally speaking at least, people don't tend to hold that against folks like him even when things don't work out in part because they love to cheer on an underdog. And in the UK particularly we feckin' love an eccentric, you only have to look at Boris Johnson for example because there's no other reason to explain his popularity! =-)

Sugar didn't have that going for him, he was an already successful businessman when Amstrad moved into home computing and i think that, on the whole, people tend to be less trusting of successful businesspeople; we seem to like our heroes flawed.

Boris Johnson has a personality. And is not a sterile nonentity , which is prevalent in modern Britain. Not that I give much of a cotton pickin' F.. about him really. :D

Yeah, I think you're right, TMR; plus he cut a rather dashing figure, whereas Sugar was always nothing much to look at :D (let's see who posts the stripper photo this time)

Quote from: TMR on 12:50, 25 May 15
Sinclair was and come to think of it is almost the definition of an eccentric inventer; he had as many misses as he did hits yes but, generally speaking at least, people don't tend to hold that against folks like him even when things don't work out in part because they love to cheer on an underdog. And in the UK particularly we feckin' love an eccentric, you only have to look at Boris Johnson for example because there's no other reason to explain his popularity! =-)

Sugar didn't have that going for him, he was an already successful businessman when Amstrad moved into home computing and i think that, on the whole, people tend to be less trusting of successful businesspeople; we seem to like our heroes flawed.

I think people prefering underdogs to already succesful peoples is a reality everywhere. And then you here people saying "We are the only country where people are against success".

To be honest, I haven't read Retro Gamer for over 2 years now. I still buy the magazine each month, but each issue gets stacked on top of a pile of, still unread, issues.

I never noticed much CPC bias. There are certain freelancers who mention it & others who don't even acknowledge it, even when their article would benefit from talking about it. That always annoyed me. Maybe it's changed in the past couple of years. I do intend on starting to read through that pile in the near future...

Necromancing this because, while reading the popcorn-worthy thread about RetroLaird over at AtariAge I came upon this gem (https://atariage.com/forums/topic/300891-the-review-of-a-z-of-atari-st-games-volume-3-book-retrolaird-is-trying-to-delete/?do=findComment&comment=4453250 (https://atariage.com/forums/topic/300891-the-review-of-a-z-of-atari-st-games-volume-3-book-retrolaird-is-trying-to-delete/?do=findComment&comment=4453250)):

Quote
Darran@Retro Gamer wrote:To quote Star Trek. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
DreamcastRIP is by far the worst offender we have on the forum, followed by Halcyon Daze and The Laird (in terms of the complaints I get about them). When you get people directly leaving because of what an individual is saying to them you have to do something about it. If we had acted a little sooner and been heavier with the banning then maybe it wouldn't come as such a shock to people now, but I have a magazine to make first and foremost and that's my priority. The Nintendo thread was set up because people like DreamcastRIP constantly derailed any thread to do with them. If this was happening with other systems those same things would apply. The fact of the matter is, if you all start acting like children you'll be treated like children and we'll take things away from you. I could have done a blanket ban on Halcyon Daze and The Laird (I'f certainly mentioned the latter's behavior to him) but they were wise enough to keep quiet when the post went done. DreamcastRIP wasn't so he was dealt with. I'm tired of people bullying others with their beliefs and then trying to hide behind the I have a right to state my opinion speech that I constantly get.

(emphasis mine)

Rrright. See what happens if you say something against Nintendo? :D


And another one (https://atariage.com/forums/topic/300891-the-review-of-a-z-of-atari-st-games-volume-3-book-retrolaird-is-trying-to-delete/?do=findComment&comment=4453769):

QuoteIf you don't like Nintendo then stay out of the threads and stop winding people up.

- which is a totally correct thing to say, after all a magazine cover is not a forum thread :D

As from my experience, you can see the dialogue when i tried to inform about my new game amd website, and the link was deleted.

https://forum.retrogamer.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55995&sid=25fd5e8dfadfbdf4ff1b6cfe80e867de

Quote from: skylas on 02:02, 30 June 20
As from my experience, you can see the dialogue when i tried to inform about my new game and website, and the link was deleted.

I see you went through the same as me. I've done the same "mistake", only with my music instead of games.
Like you, I figure retro gamedevs must be interested in hearing about new music, so I post on many different chatrooms when I've made a new track.
It's free for gamedevs who makes free games, and I find it very relevant to the gamedev-related chats I post to.
And most places I always get a "Cool" or "Nice!" feedback, but occasionally you will run into people who in my opinion really shouldn't be moderating such chatrooms.

It's true though that I'm not active on those places. I simply don't have the time to be active everywhere. But in my (apparently twisted) view, I am contributing by sharing/offering free music in formats that is usable on those platforms. Guess not.

Nothing to do about it but leave of course, and stick to the friendly places, of which there are many of, fortunately.

Quote from: mr_lou on 05:09, 30 June 20
I see you went through the same as me. I've done the same "mistake", only with my music instead of games.
Like you, I figure retro gamedevs must be interested in hearing about new music, so I post on many different chatrooms when I've made a new track.
It's free for gamedevs who makes free games, and I find it very relevant to the gamedev-related chats I post to.
And most places I always get a "Cool" or "Nice!" feedback, but occasionally you will run into people who in my opinion really shouldn't be moderating such chatrooms.

It's true though that I'm not active on those places. I simply don't have the time to be active everywhere. But in my (apparently twisted) view, I am contributing by sharing/offering free music in formats that is usable on those platforms. Guess not.

Nothing to do about it but leave of course, and stick to the friendly places, of which there are many of, fortunately.

I totally agree. When you spend time to create something that you will offer free to all, you cant have time to chat and answer in every forum or group you want to share your program.And i believe that taking part in a conversation or a forum cannot be something <obligatory>.

Quote from: skylas on 10:16, 30 June 20
I totally agree. When you spend time to create something that you will offer free to all, you cant have time to chat and answer in every forum or group you want to share your program.And i believe that taking part in a conversation or a forum cannot be something <obligatory>.

It also seems a very unfair policy towards lurkers!  :o