CPCWiki forum

Hello!

As I said earlier, and you may have seen? I would very much like to convert my C64 games to the CPC series.

I would like to release them as Physical, Boxed, Tape games with full instructions in English, German French, Dutch, Italian & Spanish. The boxes are likely to be 5 inches x 5 inches x 1 inch


I was hoping that I could also support other languages by providing additional digital versions (for free when you got the physical game) in other languages.


The problem is, If I pay to have these games produced professionally, it will cost me money. I don't expect to make any profit £ $ on these games. I want to cover the expense of producing them!


Premier Football Manager - is a Football management game. It has some different features I have not seen in football management games before.


Dragon's Keep (Working Title) is an Advanced Text Adventure with Real Time elements and different paths, different choices and different endings! There is magic and fighting.


Unknown Treasures Is a special game about Pirates. I don't want to spoil the gameplay so I am keeping it quite under-wraps for now, but I know you will really love this game.
---
The games will be duplicated professionally to the highest standards, here in the UK, they will have printed text on the tape. Possibly Red Text on White Cassettes, that remind me of the Kixx range.


The boxes are produced in Italy and are again of a very high standard / quality.
---
The booklets will be printed here in the UK, In Full Colour, with screenshots to explain the gameplay.


Please answer my Q honestly.


Thanks

Depends on the game !!! The most expensive I have paid has been 72€, I think mmm I remember for a fabulous edition, it is from MSX2https://youtu.be/ieST7K3o-fY (https://youtu.be/ieST7K3o-fY)

Many games for CPC, C64 and others are produced by people like Polyplay, Matra, etc... and they take the expenses (and the profits). If you do not want to have any expense but having a very good physical edition maybe you should contact them... Or you can check the prices they set in order to have an idea about what people are paying...

I think even $8.99 ($? :D ) is cheap, depending on the quality of production. Or even the quality of the game.

Hola caballeros!

Gracias por tu contribución

I intend to make the games affordable but of a high quality and the package the same. As long as I can cover the cost to produce them, I will be happy.

---

What I might do is, when the game is finished on the c64 and out - post some pictures of what the c64 Physical edition looks like and see what people think?

Perhaps then a Pre-Order / Pre-Purchase would be possible, and, allow me to have covered the costs beforehand.

Depending of the game and the packaging content.
I prefer to buy 2x 20$ great games than 10x 2$ poor games.

Quote from: Gryzor on 14:06, 22 June 20I think even $8.99 ($? :D  ) is cheap, depending on the quality of production. Or even the quality of the game.

8)

Quote from: Gryzor on 14:06, 22 June 20
$8.99 ($? :D  )


£7.25


or €8


if you prefer ! :D

Quote from: TotO on 14:17, 22 June 20
Depending of the game and the packaging content.
I prefer to buy 2x 20$ great games than 10x 2$ poor games.

Of course!


I would like to think these games are good, if not great, but I would like people to be happy and not feel cheated by the price.


I will think hard about this... I think I will provide a range of options including a 'Digital Download with box and instructions'.

For me, physical releases are for collectors, and I'm not a collector.
So I typically don't have a whole lot of interest in a physical copy of any game.

Unless it's a game that I really like. Then I might buy a copy or two to support the developer. Or if the developer generally makes games that appeal to me, then I might also buy it - but it'll always only be to support the developer - not really to own a physical copy. I'd be happy with a digital copy, and then just donate to the developer.

In the past I have donated to developers who has produced games that appealed to me. Obviously that's the way to go if I want to see more games by that developer.

When games are released as a physical cartridge of some kind, then I find them more interesting than a disc or tape release. But so far even that hasn't made me buy them.

Trying to think of some kind of physical release I probably would buy, it could probably be a kind of cartridge game with embedded memory resulting in things you wouldn't normally see on the CPC.

My two cents.

mr_lou. This is exactly why I posted this topic, to see what people think!


Everyone's opinion is valid.

Hi @Vince (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3799) !!, can you give us any screenshot ? of your games please ? thx  :D

Quote from: XeNoMoRPH on 20:19, 22 June 20
Hi @Vince (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3799) !!, can you give us any screenshot ? of your games please ? thx  :D

None yet I am afraid, this is about me converting my current games in the future. I will get some shots up as soon as possible, when the c64 version of each game is complete.

I just want to get them 'right' before posting, I hope you understand. What game was it that you are interested in out of the three ?


Edit: The one closest to being finished is the Football management sim. In a couple of weeks I will happily share some screens as I will over on Lemon64 as well. This will give everyone a good idea of if they would like this game. I will also do a video as Windows 10 has a wonderful tool for recording video.


Up until now, I had been using a tool called Fraps, but it was not very good.

perhaps because of the plot, Unknown Treasures :)

Quote from: XeNoMoRPH on 07:16, 23 June 20
perhaps because of the plot, Unknown Treasures :)

Ah yes. That too is one of my favourites (of many I have designed) ! I had originally designed it for the Amiga.
I got about 85% into the Amiga version and stopped because I didn't know a graphic artist, so somewhere in my old collection is the Amiga version with my dumb attempts at graphics!


I've not given too much away and I won't. I think people will really enjoy the game and I am currently looking for a very talented artist to design the box image.

Quote from: mr_lou on 14:37, 22 June 20
For me, physical releases are for collectors, and I'm not a collector.
So I typically don't have a whole lot of interest in a physical copy of any game.

Unless it's a game that I really like. Then I might buy a copy or two to support the developer. Or if the developer generally makes games that appeal to me, then I might also buy it - but it'll always only be to support the developer - not really to own a physical copy. I'd be happy with a digital copy, and then just donate to the developer.

I second that. If anything, then it is old games that have a "collectible" status. For example, I have a brand new copy of M.U.L.E. for the Atari (which could be - actually is  - an exhibit in the Museum of Modern Art). And I have originals of C64 classics like Ghostbusters, Encounter, the Lucasfilm Games, for C64 and Atari... for the CPC, a copy of the Amstrad CPC Welcome Tape, Oh Mummy, Sorcery, classics like that. Games that defined the platform.

It is unlikely that new productions will ever achieve a status as "collectibles", no matter how good  or technically advanced they are, unfortunately.

Quote from: VintageAdvantage on 09:09, 23 June 20It is unlikely that new productions will ever achieve a status as "collectibles", no matter how good  or technically advanced they are, unfortunately.

I actually do think new physical game releases have value for collectors. I'm just not a collector myself. Dunno how many actual collectors we have in the CPC community. Maybe we could do a poll about it to find out.

Quote from: mr_lou on 09:15, 23 June 20
I actually do think new physical game releases have value for collectors. I'm just not a collector myself. Dunno how many actual collectors we have in the CPC community. Maybe we could do a poll about it to find out.

Maybe it would be, even better, to ask some shops about this.., how many real sales they have, Polyplay, Matra, Retroworks, Bitmapshop, or developers who sell them... etc..., just to have actual numbers.


Even, if there is any concern, just anonymize the results, to have just totals..

I know there is a good appetite for games and physical specifically on the C64, not everybody, but a whole lot of people like them.


The question is- am I wasting my time wanting to release my games for the CPC ?


I will not be releasing any just as digital. Digital releases are very much an afterthought to me.


This was why I asked, as much as I want to convert the games (and spend months if not more in doing so)




if there really is no possibility that people want these games then maybe just stick to doing them for the C64.
:(




No disrespect to the community, but I am not going to just give my games away.


I don't know if C64 games, new ones sell too many, but it seems they sell enough to cover the expense involved and to motivate both the developers and the publisher to continue releasing new games.


Especially the Cart editions. Sam's Journey must be approaching 2000 sales by now.






? A question could be asked, if back in the day, the sales for Amstrad titles were low ( I think 10% of the 8 bit market ) then perhaps that lead publishers down the path of these shocking Speccy ports.

At the end of the day, then it was all about profit. Interesting question. Never looked at it like that before !


---


The Speccy has a rabid fanbase even today and the C64 a huge and demanding one. Perhaps the multipurpose nature of marketing lead a lot of people to not think of the CPC range as games machines, more as productivity devices? Afterall a lot of you got your green monitors.

---

You have all made a valid contribution to this discussion and I thank you all for this!

It has given me a lot of food for thought and the worst case scenario- That I don't release anything - and save myself the financial loss I might incur.

How typical of the CPC scene are we forum users here?

Those of us here, who already published free or commercial CPC games, would know it seems. Would such people like to comment, please?

For example I get the impression that many of us forum users are rather developer orientated, so maybe not the typical retro user who  prefers to play or buy a retro game instead of talking about development.

The findings of these question we could take into account when looking at forum polls.

Indeed; from figures I see every now and then it seems that gamers shy away a bit...

Ok.


If I took into account how little Amstrad gets covered in Retro Gamer (UK), but then again, maybe my best bet, is, to finish c64 version. Record footage of gameplay. Show video in various places. T


here are news websites covering retro and things. So if they cover the game I will ask if they can mention that the developer might do an Amstrad version but would like people to tell them if they would or not.


Then perhaps do a Kickstarter to produce these versions? If the Kickstarter fails, I lose no money. If the KS is successful, then all good!

they're more good points!

RetroGamer is a bit unwelcome in these parts precisely due to their attitude towards the CPC, so I wouldn't go by it...

KS is a good way to go, but juggling the correct quantities and price points to break even might be a bit tricky...

Quote from: Gryzor on 08:07, 24 June 20
RetroGamer is a bit unwelcome in these parts precisely due to their attitude towards the CPC, so I wouldn't go by it...

Same here.

RetroGamer seems to reflect today the situation of the printed magazines back then, when for example in my country (Germany) the CPC had a very good user base, but despite great CPC games the home-computer magazines constantly disadvantaged the CPC and its games. (For example they preferred Elite on the C64 over the much better CPC version.)

The media had and has its media darling.

Let's better stick with real numbers; however its difficult to get them.

Well, RG has even admitted (here on this very forum) that they troll CPC users. No love lost I'd say.

Of the games proposed, I wouldn't be interested in the football manager at all, the adventure, *maybe*, depending on theme or design - but when trying adventures these days I routinely get fed up with fighting parsers or trying to work out the particular order you're supposed to solve otherwise seemingly obvious object combining puzzles - so I wouldn't like to promise anything.  The pirate one sounds like a distinct possibility, but I'd need to see or know a bit more first.


In terms of the prices offered in the vote, all of them appear fairly 'trivial' in cost difference to me, I'm in Australia so I sort of anticipate the postage perhaps being the bigger question with that box size.

Quote from: Otto on 14:28, 23 June 20
Those of us here, who already published free or commercial CPC games, would know it seems. Would such people like to comment, please?

Well I guess I can comment on mine, but I don't know how relevant my Psytronik releases would be anymore, they were all released a while back now.  I'm not 100% sure of the numbers, but I think the games sold as low as about 20 for one, and possibly as much as about 50 for a couple of them.  Things to consider with those numbers, all of them were available as free downloads beforehand, sometimes for quite some time, and while I think there were less people in the scene back then, there were also less releases at the time as well.

I really can't see the different price points you've given making any difference to number of sales.  If it's desirable, i.e. a nice game in a nice package, people won't quibble over less than the price of a pint of beer.  My guess would be sales would only ever be 10s, you wouldn't be shifting 100s.

@dthrone (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=350) is probably correct, and I didn't realise it at first. The price points given won't make much of a difference. It'd be more realistic if we were given different production options, like:

-tape, simple jewel case, 5 starfish
-disk 3.5", small carton box, 10 denari
-disk, 3", huge box with lenticular printing and a previously unpublished P.K. Dick novel, 20 drachmae.

Something like that.

One thing to bare in mind is that the cost of a physical release is staggeringly high compared to a digital only one. In reality even a fantastic selling 8-bit game isn't really going to cover the true cost of development costs (to the point you could make a living on it) so earnings on a physical release might do well enough to cover the cost of the actual production and not an awful lot more. Working with one of the established publishers might help as they're better set up to cover costs, but even then there aren't really any guarantees.

Quote from: Gryzor on 10:26, 24 June 20
Well, RG has even admitted (here on this very forum) that they troll CPC users. No love lost I'd say.

I don't read RG, not sure why, but they seem like a serious publication. Would they really say something so silly in a serious manner?

Mind linking to that thread?

I don't really have the time to look for it... It was a long discussion after the Hewson issue came out, where they put a quote on the cover like "the CPC had no soul" IIRC. But it was taken quite out of context (again, IIRC) and when called out, Daz(?) basically admitted they used that as a bait.

Quote from: Gryzor on 10:26, 24 June 20
Well, RG has even admitted (here on this very forum) that they troll CPC users. No love lost I'd say.

Definitely none lost from me. I've called out a couple of their "writers" and I use that term very loosely, on Facebook groups about many factual errors regarding the Amstrad. Needless to say they didn't particularly appreciate it and I ended up being blocked. But they know exactly what they're doing.

Which is why I never held that rag high up in any estimation, and never will.

Not a fan of Retro Gamer and yeah they've 'trolled' a couple times but they do seem to genuinely appreciate the CPC in articles I've read.  Saying it was under-utilised


I liked the recent 4 page article on modern CPC games.
Page 1 attached.

Ah, found the thread. Nice read. (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/games/more-bias-on-retro-gamer/)


@Carnivius (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=50) : which issue is it from?
@Shaun : not surprised...

Wait, not sure that's it, still reading through it :D But it *is* relevant.

Quote from: Gryzor on 13:06, 25 June 20
@Carnivius (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=50) : which issue is it from?

207.  Few months ago.

Quote from: Carnivius on 13:25, 25 June 20
207.  Few months ago.

Cheers, going to look it up.

Regarding that thread, it's the one indeed - the Hewson reference is on post #107 (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/games/more-bias-on-retro-gamer/msg100316/#msg100316)

Ok thanks...yeah, "interesting" read indeed. I understand your frustrations but wouldn't personally say there was an evidence of some grand anti-CPC conspiracy. Running such multi-plat magazine is a balancing act, where soem folks will always feel shortchanged...that's how I see it at least.

Nobody called it a conspiracy...I think?

Perhaps this very word was not used but it's not like there were a lot of warm feelings towards RG on display.

I guess putting that Hewson quote on cover was a bit childish...but not the end of the world either. Eh, I just wish people from all the camps could be bit more relaxed about such matters, and get along better, without all these old animosities. Myself, I love all the micros, even if ZX & Amiga were my main ones back then.

Quote from: arkive on 14:49, 25 June 20
Perhaps this very word was not used but it's not like there were a lot of warm feelings towards RG on display.

I guess putting that Hewson quote on cover was a bit childish...but not the end of the world either. Eh, I just wish people from all the camps could be bit more relaxed about such matters, and get along better, without all these old animosities. Myself, I love all the micros, even if ZX & Amiga were my main ones back then.

I agree with you about everyone getting along, however some people have severe unjustified superiority complexes when it comes to the machines they owned. Which is fair enough as long as you can keep it to yourself. Sadly some Speccy and C64 owners aren't very good at that, and it doesn't become them at all.

RG have themselves to blame here, they alienate a lot of communities, take constructive criticism as negative feedback and ignore anything that can turn it around.
As a former creative myself (ex Photographer), you need to learn that just because it's not to someone's elses taste, doesn't mean it's a black mark on yourself, because it's not.

But as for RG, don't cover whatever the flavour of the month is and pass it off as retro, it's not. It's just insulting peoples intelligence.

Well...eh, it's probably a topic for another thread though :) Sorry to the OP for the derail.