If someone were to write a new game for the Plus Range I would be prepared to pay for a copy of the game.
It ahs to take full advantage of the Plus series abilities.
Any Takers?
One very important plus feature that the game should take advantage of is the 512KB rom space.
When the cartridge cases become available it should be possible to buy the game on a cartridge.
Quote from: dcdrac on 21:09, 15 August 13
It ahs to take full advantage of the Plus series abilities.
Full advantage? So it must use everything provided by the ASIC? Guess that's not doable. And will you prove anyway? Or how much would you consider as "full advantage"?
Quote from: dcdrac on 21:09, 15 August 13
If someone were to write a new game for the Plus Range I would be prepared to pay for a copy of the game.
I'll set the problem in another way : Find a way to produce new cartridges (from pcb to plasturgy) at correct price (close to CTC-AY cartridges) and find enough interested public, i'll awake Project Wildfire ;D (scroll,colors,sprites,AY lists)
As much as is practical to use, I wold do it myself if I was a programmer unfortuantly I am not.
Fair enough :) TotOs cart's are actually a great solution. I dunno how much they are, but I paid about 8-9 Euros for an ACID chip. So Carts can't be cheap.
Quote from: fano on 22:05, 15 August 13
I'll set the problem in another way : Find a way to produce new cartridges (from pcb to plasturgy) at correct price (close to CTC-AY cartridges) and find enough interested public, i'll awake Project Wildfire ;D (scroll,colors,sprites,AY lists)
What is the CTC-AY cartridge?, how much does it cost? and where can I get one?
Quote from: dcdrac on 21:09, 15 August 13
If someone were to write a new game for the Plus Range I would be prepared to pay for a copy of the game.
It ahs to take full advantage of the Plus series abilities.
Any Takers?
I already have one game that is on hold - while I finish other projects.
It doesn't use all the hardware, but uses some and I am very happy to put it into cart.
I need to finish a couple of other projects first.
EDIT: This plus game is a conversion of mazezam. I am using Plus sprites in mode 1 resolution (for main player currently) with a mode 0 background for the tiles. I am using plus analogue stick but as a digital stick, and supporting both plus digital pads. I am using the plus palette. I plan to use the line interrupts to split the screen to have mode 1 status. Look at the SNES version and you will see what I am aiming for on plus.
I am not using plus scrolling or plus dma currently.
What I need for this project: Music - can be plus dma, with digidrums. I think I have enough main ram to have these. I also need help with making some nice graphics. I have the levels from the other versions. Code is already working and levels can be played. Needs work to implement the menu system and finish off the rest of the logic.
So there you go that is what I have on the back burner.
EDIT2: I have another game that already has plus enhancements but that needs a bit more work with levels for it's 2 player mode. This one is about 80% complete. All games will be completed when I have the time and the bits to finish them off.
Hasn't this topic been up several times?
I'd love to see some new CPC+ games too. Especially if they're on cartridge. :-) And I'd pay a lot for a new CPC+ game on cartridge.
How cool could it be to have e.g. Orion Prime on a cartridge?! So cool it can't be described with words. :)
Last I remember, there was some discussion of cheaper replacements for the ACID chip. Don't know what it ended up with.
I also remember the discussion spawned a new Wiki page containing "Best practices" regarding game-development, in relation to user interface. E.g. always make your game start-able with joystick/gamepad, so GX4000 users can play it. It's fine to support keyboard for the menu, but it most also react to joystick input. And always use 'P' for pause. Then the GX4000 pause button will work too. And so forth. I'm sure someone will link to that particular Wiki page after this post.
Quote from: mr_lou on 12:40, 16 August 13
I'd love to see some new CPC+ games too. Especially if they're on cartridge. :-) And I'd pay a lot for a new CPC+ game on cartridge.
Maybe you and drdrac should found a fond-raiser program for Plus games. So you can join forces and motivate people even more. In addition you can make a contest out of it - let's say... some money for the first three winners.
If time isn't too short, I may would participate for fun.
I wouldn't mind donating to the guys who's doing the cartridge hardware development stuff.
How's that coming along? Anyone knows? Is anyone even working on it?
You should ask in the appropriate thread. Like I know work is coming forward.
To make the most of the Plus hardware, you really need to be running from a cartridge. And for cartridge game development to be feasible you need some kind of re-programmable cartridge that can easily be used by non-technical folks. Not just so that developers can use it, but also so that end users can play games as and when they choose without a big investment in lots of separate cartridges (especially given how hard find ACID chips could be).
When something like that is available, I really don't think you'll need to pay anyone to have a go at developing some games for it.
Quote from: andycadley on 15:46, 25 August 13
To make the most of the Plus hardware, you really need to be running from a cartridge. And for cartridge game development to be feasible you need some kind of re-programmable cartridge that can easily be used by non-technical folks. Not just so that developers can use it, but also so that end users can play games as and when they choose without a big investment in lots of separate cartridges (especially given how hard find ACID chips could be).
That would indeed be awesome. But not likely.
I propose a compromise.
Make a (4-way) cartridge with a removable EPROM. Then when you have this cartridge, you should be able to get the games shipped to you on an EPROM chip that you just put into your cartridge.
EDIT: Or maybe we should invent "a cartridge in a cartridge". :D
Meaning we invent our own (quite small) cartridge, that should be inserted into another cartridge, which should be inserted into the CPC. :)
Maybe. Something like the HxC drive emulator, but for cartridges would be the ideal. So you could just put cart images on an SD card or similar and load from that. It probably wouldn't be as cheap as one built around EPROMs, but I'd certainly pay more for the convenience. You could even sidestep the entire ACID issue entirely for a device like that, by just using a pass-through connector with a genuine cartridge plugged into it....
If anyone were to design a 512KB ram board they might also give it the ability to emulate a cartridge.
Quote from: andycadley on 17:43, 25 August 13
Maybe. Something like the HxC drive emulator, but for cartridges would be the ideal. So you could just put cart images on an SD card or similar and load from that. It probably wouldn't be as cheap as one built around EPROMs, but I'd certainly pay more for the convenience. You could even sidestep the entire ACID issue entirely for a device like that, by just using a pass-through connector with a genuine cartridge plugged into it....
I think that has been suggested already, and dismissed as not being possible. Or if possible, it would cost way too much for anyone to be willing to pay.
Quote from: steve on 17:54, 25 August 13
If anyone were to design a 512KB ram board they might also give it the ability to emulate a cartridge.
Something like this
Existing games => Cartridges (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?topic=7644.msg58959#msg58959)
Or this ;)
Existing games => Cartridges (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?topic=7644.msg58995#msg58995)
Yes, when will it be ready :laugh: .
So what is the real problem here?
The hardware is not ready so nobody will make games?
If it needs somebody to make a first game to push the hardware then I will try to do that later this year after I have finished some other projects.
EDIT: Why haven't I made a plus cartridge game yet? I've been busy with other projects. But I still plan to make one.
It's difficult to write a cartridge game when there isn't any "real" way of testing it. I could (and probably will) have a stab a writing a cart only game, but it's difficult to know whether or not it'll really work the same if and when someone gets it onto a real machine and diagnosing the problems that do occur is much more difficult when all you've got is a vague description of what happens from the one person who has access to all the kit necessary to test it.
Plus emulation has come on a long way since the days I was pestering every emulator author to add it, but it's still difficult to know to what extent it has been stress tested, given the dearth of Plus software that really pushes the machine.
I agree with you on this, however, even writing a more simple game that doesn't push the hardware too much hasn't been done either.
There are no new plus games on cart at all.
I put this in the chat, maybe can be an option to produce new acid chips....
JurASIC Parts | JVD Inc (http://www.jvdinc.com/jurasic-parts/)
Quote from: arnoldemu on 12:51, 27 August 13
I agree with you on this, however, even writing a more simple game that doesn't push the hardware too much hasn't been done either.
There are no new plus games on cart at all.
There is, but the guy who send me a copy told me to shut up about it. You know him probably better than I do.
The reason for the lack of physical Carts is only the lack of Cart Shells!
It does not have to be a cartridge does it though, make it a file a floppy emulator can use and programme it like the big software houses did in the early 90s, how did they get around the acid chip when putting disk games for the Plus range.
Quote from: TFM on 17:11, 27 August 13
There is, but the guy who send me a copy told me to shut up about it. You know him probably better than I do.
The reason for the lack of physical Carts is only the lack of Cart Shells!
If it was me :laugh: then I don't like to show my games early because it takes me so long to finish them.
So I like to keep them quiet for a bit ;)
Quote from: dcdrac on 17:18, 27 August 13
It does not have to be a cartridge does it though, make it a file a floppy emulator can use and programme it like the big software houses did in the early 90s, how did they get around the acid chip when putting disk games for the Plus range.
To play these plus disk games you need the system cart plugged in which contains basic, os, amsdos and an acid chip.
The games on floppy load up, unlock the extra features using the special code sequence and then use them.
If it's a real cart you need the case, rom and acid to be like the originals.
The code does a similar thing and normally the first thing it does is to unlock the plus features then use them.
There have been a few bootleg cartridges, but they hack an existing one and normally put a normal cpc game onto them.
Quote from: dcdrac on 17:18, 27 August 13
... how did they get around the acid chip when putting disk games for the Plus range.
The ACID chip is a pure hardware protection, the machine just needs one.
Games on disc have no connection to the ACID, software is not able to sense it. Without the ACID the CPC couldn't start up (boot) anyway.
So Plus games on disc are "unprotected". Therefore Cartridges have been made.
Quote from: dcdrac on 17:18, 27 August 13
It does not have to be a cartridge does it though, make it a file a floppy emulator can use and programme it like the big software houses did in the early 90s, how did they get around the acid chip when putting disk games for the Plus range.
The problem with disc/tape games is that the whole organization of the Plus hardware is geared around the assumption you're running from a cartridge. It's not the most insurmountable problem in the world, but it does mean at various points you have to work against the hardware if you aren't. Copying sprite data into the ASIC from banked memory is a PITA, for example, whereas if you were copying it out of cartridge ram the paging just works better. Likewise being able to run code from a ROM but write straight through to display memory or a DMA buffer underneath gives you the impression of a lot more memory to play with than you'd otherwise get.
But yes, you probably could write a much more simple game and just put it in cart form for emulator users, but is there really much call for that when almost nobody can really play it as intended? Maybe I'll have a look into it, just to encourage those hardware boffins to try a little harder? ;-)
Quote from: steve on 17:54, 25 August 13
If anyone were to design a 512KB ram board they might also give it the ability to emulate a cartridge.
The interface for the cartridge slot is very different to the expansion port, so they'd have to be totally different designs.
I was thinking that if the ram expansion was attached to the expansion port, it could either be addressed as paged ram or paged rom, if the cartridge uses the same paging mechanism as the expansion port then the ram should emulate the cartridge.
No, RAM is RAM. Sorry to say that very open: You got no idea how this all works. And I can't start from Adam and Lilith or Eve. So, just accept that it can't be done. And btw. a RAM expansion will never emulate hardware sprites or DMA sound.
Ram is a memory chip, rom is a memory chip, they are both accessed by the memory bus they just have different paging schemes, let the ram be written using the ram paging mechanism, when the user wants to test a program he will throw a switch and the ram will be accessed by the rom paging mechanism, the processor is effectively accessing a rom, as they are both memory chips, just at different addresses.
I know it won't emulate sprites or dma sound, I never suggested it would.
This device will be connected to the plus expansion bus so those features will exist in the plus machine, I never suggested that this device would make a cpc the same as a plus, that would be ridiculous.
The problems with that are:
1) Assuming you can override the internal behaviour, it's got to be more expensive in the long run to put all the paging hardware that already exists internally in your add-on device. Now that might be offset slightly by taking advantage of the CPC to program the device, but maybe not.
2) One of the reasons a developer wants a cart is to know the code they write works, regardless of the bugs that exist in the hardware (and there are already a fair few known bugs in the Plus hardware). An external paging device may well behave the way the Plus specs suggest, but not the way an actual Plus does.
3) You lose all the convenience of carts in the first place, not to mention the ability to play on the GX.
If the cartridge uses the same paging mechanism as a rombox just (higher rom page numbers), then it should be as easy to make a cartridge emulator as it is to make a rombox, the device would be for program development, once it is debugged the program would be put in a cartridge.
Maybe the megaflash could be modified to use the same pages as the cartridge.
EDIT, I don't know if the flash chip can be written to like ram or needs a special writing circuit.
Look the Cartridge can page in ROM at all four blocks, RAM can't. And I don't assume you suggest to rewrite every game.
Never mind.
I get what steve is talking about. I think.
1. RAM which is mapped as ROM. Similar to Megaflash or Inicron's RAM-ROM etc.
So programs can write to this to initialise the data.
2. The ROM acts just like cartridge ROM. This will work.
No need for extra hardware to simulate the plus.
This is a nice idea, but these are my thoughts.
I create code on the PC. Now what I would really like is a way I can connect the PC to a writeable cart.
I would turn off the Plus, switch the cart into write mode and the pc can send the data to it. The data is remembered. Switch the cart into read mode, turn on the Plus and see it working. USB would be best here for it to work, so the cart would need a USB chip, and some kind of CPU which can access the RAM. Problems here, the PC would need drivers to support this unless it looks like a memory stick - so this would be a problem.
The other alternative is a cartridge with a SD-Card, or usb socket on it.
When the cart is turned on there is a short delay while the on-board CPU downloads the data from the sd-card/usb stick and writes it into the cart-ram. CPC then executes it.
All of these would need some software writing to work, the last is probably "easiest" because you would not need to write device drivers for pc/linux etc. But the harder part is the cpu that can read the sd-card and copy it to the cartridge ram.
For me these ideas would be perfect. I could quickly make changes and quickly test results.
Now the other methods are good, but it just takes longer to get the changes to it and involve a more round about way.
Either way, programming it and testing it on an emulator would get perhaps 80% there, with some fixes to the emulator where "bugs" or "glitches" are not emulated correctly.
Ok. So replace your EPROM in some Cartridge by a Flash (you can take an old BIOS Flash of a PC for free), and flash it on your PC. That's it.
Quote from: TFM on 20:25, 29 August 13
Ok. So replace your EPROM in some Cartridge by a Flash (you can take an old BIOS Flash of a PC for free), and flash it on your PC. That's it.
True, but then I need a device connected to PC to flash it with.
e.g. Willem Programmer.
Yes, should be cheaper than building that for CPC.
Of course it would be a nice tool to have for the CPC. But I think its construction would be pretty complicated.
What is the flash IC model?
(if pin compatible, you may use the CTC-AY to program them from the CPC)
I have an EPROM programmer and a few suitable EPROMs, so it would be better than nothing. But to get it out to the masses, you really need something a bit easier.
Quote from: andycadley on 00:35, 31 August 13
I have an EPROM programmer and a few suitable EPROMs, so it would be better than nothing. But to get it out to the masses, you really need something a bit easier.
I'll repeat my suggestion: "Mini cartridges".
We invent "Mini Cartridges" : A small cartridge containing only the EPROM chip. This mini cartridge can then be plugged into a bigger cartridge (containing the ACID chip what all other necessary stuff I know nothing about), and this bigger cartridge goes into the CPC.
It's like this already (almost) with Bryce's 4-way cartridge. It lets you replace the EPROM. All a "mini cartridge" would do is to make this exchange slightly easier for the average user.
Quote from: mr_lou on 07:16, 31 August 13
I'll repeat my suggestion: "Mini cartridges".
We invent "Mini Cartridges" : A small cartridge containing only the EPROM chip. This mini cartridge can then be plugged into a bigger cartridge (containing the ACID chip what all other necessary stuff I know nothing about), and this bigger cartridge goes into the CPC.
It's like this already (almost) with Bryce's 4-way cartridge. It lets you replace the EPROM. All a "mini cartridge" would do is to make this exchange slightly easier for the average user.
Already exists, it is the ManInTheMiddle by bryce : MITM - CPCWiki (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/MITM)
Just have to add some decent plasturgy to this and we could have a 'decent' product...
Quote from: fano on 10:16, 31 August 13
Already exists, it is the ManInTheMiddle by bryce : MITM - CPCWiki (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/MITM)
Just have to add some decent plasturgy to this and we could have a 'decent' product...
I didn't know about that. But yes, that's a solution. Not too elegant in its current state, but as you said, could be polished and then it would work.
But how does the user then disable the EPROM on the cartridge? Is that done automatically or does it require some user interaction?
Quote from: mr_lou on 10:29, 31 August 13
I didn't know about that. But yes, that's a solution. Not too elegant in its current state, but as you said, could be polished and then it would work.
But how does the user then disable the EPROM on the cartridge? Is that done automatically or does it require some user interaction?
it is automatic.
This solution is the one you describe. It does however need a good case to make it easy to insert/remove it. It also requires an edge connector which can be hard to find, or expensive to source (for connection of the original cartridge). Sources have been discussed for the edge connector. The solution works.
I think writing programs for the plus is easier compared to the cpc. Why?
The hardware sprites avoid the need for this on the cpc:
- clipping sprites
- displaying the sprites
- erasing the sprites
All of this is done by hardware.
If I had time to make some more example programs, concentrating on the plus, what would people like to see?
Please tell me and I will show how it can be done and that may encourage more people to code for plus.
I would love to see the Plus put through its paces something that pushes it all the way
An Elite style game or maybe a rehash of Dark side something like, Imagine Star glider or Carrier command as a Plus game
Fued in 3d?
Maybe Doom
Quote from: dcdrac on 17:54, 31 August 13
I would love to see the Plus put through its paces something that pushes it all the way
me too, but then I would love to see anything new that uses the plus hardware.
Quote from: dcdrac on 17:56, 31 August 13
An Elite style game or maybe a rehash of Dark side something like, Imagine Star glider or Carrier command as a Plus game
Fued in 3d?
Maybe Doom
I'm not sure how the plus could enhance these games...?
Yes there is a bigger palette, but in the end both of these would be just like recoloured versions of the cpc.
Again, a doom style game is unlikely to be faster on the plus (but proove me wrong), but it would be more colourful.
plus is better for colours, scrolling and nice sprites. the dma sound helps for interrupts and to make sampled sound.
I have just tested this on my 464 plus:
There is no keyboard clash between the joysticks and the keyboard. There is also no clash between the joysticks themselves.
This means 2 players can use joysticks OR one on keyboard and another on joystick and there will not be any problems. This is what I expected to be honest and it's good news.
What I did not test is daisy chaining of joystick 2 on joystick 1. Docs say it's possible, no idea if there will be clash or not, I assume not.
I also tested the AJ-5 analogue joystick. Fire buttons are mapped to digital joystick 0 fire buttons as I expected. X/Y values on "channels 0 and 1". One suprising thing is that fire I on the joystick is fire 2 on the cpc. And fire II on the joystick is fire 1.
I wish the cpc didn't have the clash between joystick and keyboard, would have made playing 2 player gauntlet a bit more easy ;)
Quote from: arnoldemu on 19:34, 31 August 13
I also tested the AJ-5 analogue joystick. Fire buttons are mapped to digital joystick 0 fire buttons as I expected. X/Y values on "channels 0 and 1". One suprising thing is that fire I on the joystick is fire 2 on the cpc. And fire II on the joystick is fire 1.
Well, I only have a single cheap joystick which I use for my 6128 Plus's Analogue port. Fire 1 is Fire 1, and 2 is 2. Maybe this is rather Joystick-dependent.
ok.
I tried something else:
I wanted to try and repeat the same sprite across the screen. If the sprite is set to x4 mag, then it takes 64 mode 2 pixels, which is the same as 4us. I have just enough time to set the x coordinate.
;; This example shows a CPC+ hardware sprite.
;;
;; This example is designed for CPC+ only and will
;; not work on CPC or KC Compact.
;;
;;
;; This example will compile with the MAXAM assembler
;; or the built-in assembler of WinAPE32.
;; 1 mode 1 char is 1us.
;; which is 2 bytes. and 8 pixels
;; 2 mode 1 chars is 2us, 4 bytes and 16 pixels.
;; NOTE - For this example to work, the code must not
;; be in the range &4000-&7fff inclusive. The ASIC registers
;; are paged into this range, and the code would not be
;; visible to the CPU if it was also in this range.
org &8000
scr_set_mode equ &bc0e
txt_output equ &bb5a
start:
;;--------------------------------------------------
;; STEP 1 - Unlock CPC+ additional features
;; unlock asic to gain access to asic registers
;; set the screen mode
ld a,1
call scr_set_mode
ld d,'A'
ld b,24
l2:
ld c,40
l1:
ld a,d
call txt_output
dec c
jr nz,l1
inc d
dec b
jr nz,l2
di
ld b,&bc
ld hl,sequence
ld e,17
seq:
ld a,(hl)
out (c),a
inc hl
dec e
jr nz,seq
ei
;;--------------------------------------------------
;; STEP 2 - Setup sprite pixel data
;;
;; The ASIC has internal "RAM" used to store the sprite pixel
;; data. If you want to change the pixel data for a sprite
;; then you need to copy new data into the internal "RAM".
;; page-in asic registers to &4000-&7fff
ld bc,&7fb8
out (c),c
;; stored sprite pixel data
ld hl,sprite_pixel_data
;; address of sprite 0 pixel data
;; sprite 0 pixel data is in the range &4000-&4100
ld de,&4000
;; length of pixel data for a single sprite (16x16 = 256)
ld bc,&100
ldir
;; page-out asic registers
ld bc,&7fa0
out (c),c
;;--------------------------------------------------
;; STEP 3 - Setup sprite palette
;;
;; The sprites use a single 15 entry sprite palette.
;; pen 0 is ALWAYS transparent.
;;
;; The sprite palette is different to the screen palette.
;; page-in asic registers to &4000-&7fff
ld bc,&7fb8
out (c),c
;; copy colours into ASIC sprite palette registers
ld hl,sprite_colours
ld de,&6422
ld bc,15*2
ldir
;; page-out asic registers
ld bc,&7fa0
out (c),c
;;--------------------------------------------------
;; STEP 4 - Setup sprite properties
;;
;; Each sprite has properties which define the x,y coordinates
;; and x,y magnification.
;; page-in asic registers to &4000-&7fff
ld bc,&7fb8
out (c),c
;; set x coordinate for sprite 0
ld hl,100
ld (&6000),hl
;; set y coordinate for sprite 0
ld hl,100
ld (&6002),hl
;; mag
ld a,%1101
ld (&6004),a
;; line before
ld a,99
ld (&6800),a
di
ld hl,&c9fb
ld (&0038),hl
ei
ld bc,&7f10
out (c),c
ld bc,&7f54
out (c),c
loop:
;; about 14 cycles to get to the correct point
;; setup for X
ld hl,&6000 ;; [3]
ld de,&6001 ;; [3]
ld a,&1 ;; [2]
ld c,&0+5 ;; [2]
;; = [10]
halt ;; after hsync
;; 8-3 gives gap of about 6 pixels (sprite starts at pixel 0) except where I am forced to write both bytes
;; 8-2 gives gap of about 4 pixels (sprite starts at pixel 4 though) except where I am forced to write both bytes
;; adding on 5 gives a small gap between
defs 8-2
rept 16
ld (hl),0+5
nop
ld (hl),64+5
nop
ld (hl),128+5
nop
ld (hl),192+5
nop
ld (hl),c
ld (de),a ;; &100
ld (hl),64+5
nop
ld (hl),128+5
nop
ld (hl),192+5
inc a
ld (hl),c
ld (de),a ;; &200
ld (hl),64+5
dec a
dec a
ld (de),a
inc a
defs 24-1-2-1
endm
jp loop
;;--------------------------------------------------
ret
;;--------------------------------------------------
;; - there is two bytes per colour.
;; - these are stored in a form that can be written direct
;; to the CPC+ colour palette registers (i.e. xGRB)
;; - pen 0 is always transparent and doesn't have a entry
;; in the CPC+ palette
sprite_colours:
defw &0111 ;; colour for sprite pen 1
defw &0222 ;; colour for sprite pen 2
defw &0333 ;; colour for sprite pen 3
defw &0444 ;; colour for sprite pen 4
defw &0555 ;; colour for sprite pen 5
defw &0666 ;; colour for sprite pen 6
defw &0777 ;; colour for sprite pen 7
defw &0888 ;; colour for sprite pen 8
defw &0999 ;; colour for sprite pen 9
defw &0aaa ;; colour for sprite pen 10
defw &0bbb ;; colour for sprite pen 11
defw &0ccc ;; colour for sprite pen 12
defw &0ddd ;; colour for sprite pen 13
defw &0eee ;; colour for sprite pen 14
defw &0fff ;; colour for sprite pen 15
;;---------------------------------------------
;; - there is one pixel per byte (bits 3..0 of each byte define the palette index for this pixel)
;; - these bytes are stored in a form that can be written direct to the ASIC
;; sprite pixel data
sprite_pixel_data:
defb &01,&01,&01,&01,&01,&01,&01,&01,&01,&01,&01,&01,&01,&01,&01,&01 ;; line 0
defb &02,&02,&02,&02,&02,&02,&02,&02,&02,&02,&02,&02,&02,&02,&02,&02 ;; line 1
defb &03,&03,&03,&03,&03,&03,&03,&03,&03,&03,&03,&03,&03,&03,&03,&03 ;; line 2
defb &04,&04,&04,&04,&04,&04,&04,&04,&04,&04,&04,&04,&04,&04,&04,&04 ;; line 3
defb &05,&05,&05,&05,&05,&05,&05,&05,&05,&05,&05,&05,&05,&05,&05,&05 ;; line 4
defb &06,&06,&06,&06,&06,&06,&06,&06,&06,&06,&06,&06,&06,&06,&06,&06 ;; line 5
defb &07,&07,&07,&07,&07,&07,&07,&07,&07,&07,&07,&07,&07,&07,&07,&07 ;; line 6
defb &08,&08,&08,&08,&08,&08,&08,&08,&08,&08,&08,&08,&08,&08,&08,&08 ;; line 7
defb &09,&09,&09,&09,&09,&09,&09,&09,&09,&09,&09,&09,&09,&09,&09,&09 ;; line 8
defb &0a,&0a,&0a,&0a,&0a,&0a,&0a,&0a,&0a,&0a,&0a,&0a,&0a,&0a,&0a,&0a ;; line 9
defb &0b,&0b,&0b,&0b,&0b,&0b,&0b,&0b,&0b,&0b,&0b,&0b,&0b,&0b,&0b,&0b ;; line 10
defb &0c,&0c,&0c,&0c,&0c,&0c,&0c,&0c,&0c,&0c,&0c,&0c,&0c,&0c,&0c,&0c ;; line 11
defb &0d,&0d,&0d,&0d,&0d,&0d,&0d,&0d,&0d,&0d,&0d,&0d,&0d,&0d,&0d,&0d ;; line 12
defb &0e,&0e,&0e,&0e,&0e,&0e,&0e,&0f,&0e,&0e,&0e,&0e,&0e,&0e,&0e,&0e ;; line 13
defb &0f,&0f,&0f,&0f,&0f,&0f,&0f,&0f,&0f,&0f,&0f,&0f,&0f,&0f,&0f,&0f ;; line 14
defb &01,&01,&01,&01,&01,&01,&01,&01,&01,&01,&01,&01,&01,&01,&01,&01 ;; line 15
;;----------------------------------------------------------
;; this is the sequence to unlock the ASIC extra features
sequence:
defb &ff,&00,&ff,&77,&b3,&51,&a8,&d4,&62,&39,&9c,&46,&2b,&15,&8a,&cd,&ee
end start
So, I can't get the sprites to join up. there is always a gap, especially where I set the coord to &100 and &200. The official documents do state that the sprite is removed from the display for the duration of the access and I can see it happening here. I am testing on a 464 plus.
Where &100 and &200 are written there is the biggest gap, but for the others the gap is smaller. Interestingly, if I shift the sprite coords a little I can reduce the gap (must be down to when the asic reads the sprite coordinates), but it's around 4 mode 2 pixels still.
Of course this method requires I re-write the x coordinate across the screen and for every line the sprite is on. So it uses a lot of cpu time.
I have ideas for putting different sprites side by side using a similar method; this should work because I can write the x coordinate for another sprite while I am displaying another sprite. The idea being I have the same graphics in 2 sprites, so 2 sets of sprites, then I can carefully repeat them - sprites will be mode 0 resolution however because I can't get the code quicker for mode 1 sprites.
May work out well for a puzzle game where you have circles of different colours that can be side by side.
Sad it didn't work as I hoped; I hoped there was some time in which I could write the x coordinate and the asic would continue to draw from the current sprite, then it would re-read the x coordinate a bit later and repeat it. Seems it re-reads it more often than I expected.
Quote from: arnoldemu on 22:10, 31 August 13
Sad it didn't work as I hoped; I hoped there was some time in which I could write the x coordinate and the asic would continue to draw from the current sprite, then it would re-read the x coordinate a bit later and repeat it. Seems it re-reads it more often than I expected.
I have been doing a lot of work trying to multiplex Plus sprites and found the same as you did.
However, if you work as if you were using a single screen (i.e. not double buffered) and avoid the screen draw area then you can use this CPU time to alter the X and Y registers easily. If you combine this with a buffer and algorithm (which is calculated every frame) to work out which where you want to draw the sprites you can 'repeat' a lot of sprites quite easily - but of course it's definitely suited to a certain 'type' of game and the timing has to be exact ;)
Wonderboy 2 & 3 (see sega versions) could be sweet games...
(http://www.consoleclassix.com/info_img/Wonder_Boy_in_Super_Monster_Land_SMS_ScreenShot2.jpg)
(http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/213214-wonder-boy-iii-the-dragon-s-trap-sega-master-system-screenshot.png)
No need for complicated scrollings, simple sprites, Mode0, and so on...
Those game can contain a good dose of JRPG actually... stuff, buffs, powers and so on.
And have a MarioWorld-like map and so on.
Yet still be decent platformers.
Otherwise, a mix between Black Tiger and Wonderboy 2&3 (= more serious grit gritier grimdark and so on)
@MacDeath: Yes that seems more possible.
For the moment, people should work with the limits, and either limit themselves to 16 sprites as most of the current plus games do OR mix hardware sprites and software sprites.
So.. when are the first new games comming? ;)
I've always wanted to see Amiga classics on CPC+ (CarVup, Pardroid90, 9-Lives, etc) but this game (http://www.psygnosis.org/games/billstomato/) is a must (if you want to convert rather than originate). And it's not as if I am about 65% into converting the music to CPC or anything (cough, cough), it's just that I think it would transfer to CPC (both normal & plus) rather well... and if we have the intro, mid-theme sections, outro and title/highscore then it could be the total conversion package... stuck on a CPC+ cartridge ready for sale/download. (It's not as if Si-nog-sis could sue for the conversion anymore!)
And again, I'm not doing any music from this game... despite there being a link to the .mod files at the bottom of that page! ^_^ Hehe... cough!
Quote from: tastefulmrship on 11:34, 03 September 13
It's not as if Si-nog-sis could sue for the conversion anymore!
Not sure I'm convinced that would be the case with Sony only just digging Shadow of the Beast out of the archives. ;)
Id love to do a few more plus games, and I've got a lot of code and graphics that are waiting. But until a solution is found for the cartridge issue it seems pointless.
Isn't there a solution where a standard cart is modified so that you can plug n play roms? Seems like an obvious way round it. Nobody is gonna wanna put the thousands it would take into getting a case modelled and then you have the problem of the acid.
Bluesbrothers is getting the cases made, the acid has been cracked, it just needs to be put into a cpld or real acid chips can still be bought.
Quote from: Trebmint on 16:17, 03 September 13
Isn't there a solution where a standard cart is modified so that you can plug n play roms? Seems like an obvious way round it. Nobody is gonna wanna put the thousands it would take into getting a case modelled and then you have the problem of the acid.
You could make a DIY Cartridge (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/DIY_Cartridge).
Or if you don't want to make a PCB, then cut the ROM from an existing cartridge and put a socket on and then insert your own EPROMs at will.
Quote from: tastefulmrship on 11:34, 03 September 13
And again, I'm not doing any music from this game... despite there being a link to the .mod files at the bottom of that page! ^_^ Hehe... cough!
Are you converting them to AY chiptunes or playing the MODs on the CPC...?
Quote from: redbox on 21:16, 03 September 13
Are you converting them to AY chiptunes or playing the MODs on the CPC...?
As always, I'm converting them to AY, but most of the tunes are 3-channel anyway, so there's no reason why a "CPC+ conversion" couldn't play the .mods direct.
I keep meaning to find time to experiment with your new Arkos player (for a version of Heatbeat's Believe) and I have my first weekend off work since Easter this week, so I might give it a go. My original problem with 8bit samples on CPC was finding the correct frequency; all my "voice" samples were just too slow. (I'll continue this discussion in that thread)
Ok, can we get back to topic?[nb]New Plus Series Game a Proposal (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?topic=8347.0)[/nb]
Well it is on topic - I was asking about the MODs because if tastefulmrship wants I can help convert some samples (drums etc) to DMA for use on the Plus.
Sorry I didn't get around to answering quickly enough for you.
What this guy[nb]tast full ship or so[/nb] can:
- use black humor
- Like posts with black humor
- bitch if one has an other opinion
- bitch at programmers
What this guy doesn't can:
- Programming on a Plus
:laugh:
Is there a version of Prodatron's Protracker for Plus?
Or a similar 3 player full sample tracker.
I believe Weee! wrote one and released a demo, but I never saw the tracker :(
Did BSC write one to make the music for Prehistorik 2?
Would be good to get that released.
Even previews of these trackers would be good to see, the playback routine alone is worth it, even if the data could be made in another tracker.
Quote from: arnoldemu on 09:27, 05 September 13
Is there a version of Prodatron's Protracker for Plus?
Or a similar 3 player full sample tracker.
I believe Weee! wrote one and released a demo, but I never saw the tracker :(
Did BSC write one to make the music for Prehistorik 2?
Would be good to get that released.
Even previews of these trackers would be good to see, the playback routine alone is worth it, even if the data could be made in another tracker.
No there is nothink on Plus for making tunes...
In Prehistorik 2 it's Weee, not BSC who make the first tune. It's is own tracker.
So nothink for making tunes on CPC Plus...
You can also see all Semilanceata demos:
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=7958 (http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=7958)
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=7935 (http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=7935)
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=8553 (http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=8553)
And Ukonx demo:
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=8072 (http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=8072)
Grim and power make here own convertisseur of .MOD
So if you want a MOD tracker for CPC Plus, you must make your own, because nobody seams to want making it for others...
Sorry for my english also ^^
I think that a pure MOD tracker/player for the Plus isn't the best solution as the samples can't be played at different pitches (or you have to store different samples for all the pitches).
Much better to have 2/3 AY channels and include 1 DMA channel like the ST I think.
But of course if you are converting Amiga MODs you could redo the tune in AY and then convert the drum samples etc to DMA format. Or the best solution might be rip the AY tunes from the ST and then use the Amiga drum samples as they are usually a higher quality to start with (most ST digidrums are 11025hz or lower).
Quote from: redbox on 10:18, 05 September 13
I think that a pure MOD tracker/player for the Plus isn't the best solution as the samples can't be played at different pitches (or you have to store different samples for all the pitches).
In a normal MOD player you have to mix the channels to play them.
I assume a MOD player on Plus, does this and writes the data into a buffer which the DMA reads at a
fixed rate.
So the mixing routine does all the work and outputs a mixed 8Khz/15Khz sound that the DMA plays at that rate.
Quote from: redbox on 10:18, 05 September 13
Much better to have 2/3 AY channels and include 1 DMA channel like the ST I think.
But of course if you are converting Amiga MODs you could redo the tune in AY and then convert the drum samples etc to DMA format. Or the best solution might be rip the AY tunes from the ST and then use the Amiga drum samples as they are usually a higher quality to start with (most ST digidrums are 11025hz or lower).
Having 2/3 AY and 1 DMA drums is nice yes, but sometimes nice to have full sampled sound.
Also having 2/3 AY and 1 SID-Voice is nice too.
As say Arnoldemu, Mod player writes data into a buffer.
It take some CPU because we must calculate sample frequency and write it to the good frequency...
It's the same than in an old CPC...
Adventage of the CPC+ is to play this sample that take 0 CPU with the DMA.
But for my opinion, playing sample have not a good result because of the rate.
I think it's more preferable to make SID voice or effect like this.
You can ear Sid voice on some of my production (player by Offset)for exemple. The result is good and my ears don't bleed like with sample :)
Sid on:
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=9124 (http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=9124)
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=7408 (http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=7408)
I have some other idea to make tunes on cpc+ with good result, and maybe i'll make a tracker some day...
Sid voices are the best way to make a good lead sound on the AY. I miss them on my cpc songs...
Quote from: Trebmint on 16:17, 03 September 13
Id love to do a few more plus games, and I've got a lot of code and graphics that are waiting. But until a solution is found for the cartridge issue it seems pointless.
3D-printers will soon do this for everyone - if we can make drawings for the cases
Quote from: ivarf on 15:02, 06 September 13
3D-printers will soon do this for everyone - if we can make drawings for the cases
I think this was relating to the ACID chip than the casing - although you make a very good point about that.
But hopefully it's cracked as the comment above says and can be implemented on a cheap FPGA/CPLD/thing.
Quote from: GOB on 14:03, 05 September 13
Sid on:
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=9124 (http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=9124)
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=7408 (http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=7408)
Well, I wished I could access CPC power, but since a couple of days I can't access it any longer. That suxx!
Devilmarcus mentions in the shoutbox that he has created a mirror of the CPC power site, can you access that?
EDIT: He actually installed a "proxy", is that the same as a mirror?
The proxy provides an alternative route to the real site, bypassing whatever is blocking it.
Sadly,I'm finding that his proxy site itself isn't working, for me.
So, the new Plus game must not be put at CPC Power since only France can access it.
I can access it without problems.
Oh, did France finally conquer Spain :P
No, seriously I dunno why I can't access it. Just can give a guess, that it might be a kind of running wild protection system.
And of course I do live in USA :-X
I have no problems accessing either. From England.
Quote from: TFM on 20:20, 04 September 13
Ok, can we get back to topic?
I'll just leave this here... just incase someone NOT TFM decides to continue the thread ON-TOPIC...
Hypocrisy is a today's Word Of The Day!
(twat)
@tastefulmrship - Well I am very interested in hearing your music for Plus games and if you need a DMA driver (digidrums/SID voices) then I hopefully can help.
Just ignore the trolling, life is easier that way :)
I agree - just ignore it. I was just going to delete that previous post, but since you replied already I'm just leaving it there. Not worth it. Please share anything :)
I have just been running Narco Police after getting help from Gryzor with the HXC manager, many thanks, and it reminded me of the time Ihad bought Doom for my PC in the 90s and thinking this is a lot like Narco Police
About cpc-power.com:
I guess it's not a security problem, but a translation problem.
Seems that the German translation (which is auto-set by cpc-power.com's system) is broken.
That's perhaps the reason, why we see a blank page (There's even nothing in the source)
Dunno, what happened exactly there, but it seems that Kukulcan already fell into hibernation...
So it doesn't let you choose your language? :-X
Do you see any language options?
I just saw that. I don't visit cpc-power too often...
Alright, so about a CPC Plus game series.......
I was wondering... is there any way to use the hardware sprites from BASIC?
Quote from: mr_lou on 16:47, 10 September 13
Alright, so about a CPC Plus game series.......
I was wondering... is there any way to use the hardware sprites from BASIC?
B-ASIC - CPCWiki (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/B-ASIC)
If people are programming in C, feel free to use this library I wrote:
http://www.cpctech.org.uk/download/pluslib.zip (http://www.cpctech.org.uk/download/pluslib.zip)
Attached to this message is a new version that supports analogue joysticks.
Quote from: mr_lou on 16:47, 10 September 13
Alright, so about a CPC Plus game series.......
I was wondering... is there any way to use the hardware sprites from BASIC?
A couple of OUT and POKE commands can do all from BASIC. :)
You just must delock ASIC...
For that you can run "burnin rubber" and make a soft reset...
Then:
Out &7f00,&b8 'ASIC ON
and
out &7f00,&a0 'ASIC OFF
You can find adr for all cpc+ sprite;colour etc on the net...
But...
System refresh of colour will kill your colour modifications...
You can also use B-ASIC from Longshot: [size=78%]http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=5184[/size]