New plus/GX4000 games

[Trebmint]

So having been working putting together a plus remix of the classic game sorcery I got to thinking about how it might be released. I'm given to understanding that somebody is in the process of getting the cart cases made and it so it seems we might be able for the first time ever to create our own physical carts... Great.
That does however cause an issue. There's already carts of existing ROMs smashed open and straight CPC games thrown on them which have sold on eBay for silly money and that's fine but they are bootlegs and add nothing really. And tbh I don't much fancy doing a lot of work and seeing other people burning ROMs and selling them as carts on eBay.

What I'm going to suggest is that a group of two or three non coders are given the right to give an 'official new cart' status with a release number and standard case framework artwork. This way we will standardised looking official cart releases which would form a collectable set of software rather than bootlegs... Cos tbh I can't release sorcery as mine but it would nice to have a limited release at the cost of producing and add it as a genuine addition to the gx collecting world. Obviously other people can make bootlegs if they want but they won't be able to be sold on eBay as such.
To my mind this semi official tag and standardised case artwork will add to collecting gx carts which seems to be a sought after thing. And it gives the producer if they are not the copyright holder the ability to have a game officially accepted.
What do people think or wanna add?

[redbox]

Nice ideas but you'll always get bootleggers.

I think the only real protection is to make a new piece of work and copyright it.  Then if it is bootlegged and sold on ebay you can report it for copyright infringement and have the listing removed.

Personally I'm not that bothered - I do it for the fun of the development and achievement!

[arnoldemu]

I like the idea of a limited release.

In the Atari world, they seem to do just this.

Register an interest.
Limited physical release.
Then the image is released for others to do as they wish.

True you may get bootlegs, but the limited release works well.

I like the idea, of perhaps our own brand or styling in terms of the cover, book art, and cartridge sticker. That would be nice too and it would be clear if somebody has bootlegged that part.

[TotO]

Bootleg of new Plus games? Hahaha.

I think that there is around 20 CPC Plus users over the world and all will be proud to buy official new games.
The real questions are:
- "is viable to make new packaged Plus games?"
- "how many games will be needed to make that profitable?"

At the first question, you can look the Mr_Lou poll topic showing that 33% of the current CPC users prefer virtual files.
(so, they probably use emulators and not real machines)
And around 10% of them would like real  floppy or cartridges... The CPC Old community is little and the Plus one is tiny.

For the second question, depending how you build them and what will be the selling price.
Today, making them using 3D printing is just too much expensive (around 20$ each case).
And using mold will cost you more than 3000$ just for it. (then, pay your cases by 1000 units at less)

I'm not here for killing dreams, but before thinking about piracy (we are not on Amiga), keep the way of making some great games first.

[dcdrac]

I would happily buy some new cartridge games for my two plus machines and GX4000 and especially if there is an enhanced version for the 6128 plus that uses the extra memory would it use bankman like on the original 6128?

[arnoldemu]

I would happily buy some new cartridge games for my two plus machines and GX4000 and especially if there is an enhanced version for the 6128 plus that uses the extra memory would it use bankman like on the original 6128?

Games don't use bankman to access the extra ram they access the ram using the hardware directly.
bankman is a utility for basic that lets you use the extra ram in your basic programs.

Using the extra 128K on the 6128 plus could be interesting, especially if it helps make the game smoother.

[arnoldemu]

For my first project I'll make up some cartridge label and booklets (not physical ones because I don't have the ability to print them, more the files which people can use to print them), then perhaps it may work towards a standard design.

I don't know what we will do for boxes for the carts, it would be trouble to reproduce the originals, may be able to use VHS boxes, or perhaps sell them in plastic bags??

[Trebmint]

The reason for this would be that if new cases did appear (I've read somewhere that somebody is making them) then it would be possible to release new old games as official-ish but on a non profit basis and have them all look the same in cases like all NES/SNES/Playstation/old GX4000 carts do. this makes them collectable and Im sure some people would like that, plus as a coder I'd like to have a physical release of any work  might do, and for it to add to a growing collectable scene. Lets face it the only games that sell on ebay are carts... and if new carts are going to happen then I think we shouldnt flood ebay with copies of new old releases but have control by making them semi official and not bootleg versions so people collecting will know the providence and have know that what they are collecting is limited to say 20 or 50 or unlimited or whatever. this makes them collectable... as does them all looking the same in a VHS box with a standardised art framework.


If you want to make bootleg roms then do but they just wont be collectable and therefore not sellable on ebay.... thats the idea.

[Trebmint]

For my first project I'll make up some cartridge label and booklets (not physical ones because I don't have the ability to print them, more the files which people can use to print them), then perhaps it may work towards a standard design.

I don't know what we will do for boxes for the carts, it would be trouble to reproduce the originals, may be able to use VHS boxes, or perhaps sell them in plastic bags??

Yes I was thinking plain old VHS cases, but with a standard framework artwork design... cos they will after a dozen or so look really cool stacked together (making them collectable). But if there was an official cart committee that could give the use of that artwork and an official release number then only the person/s allowed to reproduce it meaning bootleggers couldnt just burn roms and sell them on ebay as official releases.


Doesnt stop anyone doing anything, but means we get a cool looking standardised collection of new carts 

[Trebmint]

Oh can I just point out that Im remixing Sorcery to make use of the plus features. And others have asked for Plus versions of other games, in fact theres a current thread about turning the blues brothers into a plus game and I'm considering doing so when I finish sorcery. Plusing old games is cool and fairly easy and not much different to what Amstrad did originally where games like Klax or Switchblade etc we're just slight upgrades.


Now Sorcery will be released as a .cpr file for free. Its not my copyright!!!! People can do with it as they will... play on emulator or burn it to ROM. However what I would object too is people making the ROM and then selling them on ebay. Truth is people have already done this with standard CPC games and they sold for £40/60/80 quid which is madness as people like to collect... but unfortunately they are collecting something worthless. If by officialising them we can make releases genuinely worth collecting I say its a good thing

[dcdrac]

its been a long time since I did any rom burning almost 20 years...time to find the right kit and the right means to access the rom afterwards.

[MacDeath]

Many console collectioners have a GX4000 just to say they own a rare lousy console.
So there may be an actual "market" for cartridge games.

But don't expect to be rich with that.
add in the 30-50 Amstrad users who may happen to own a PLUS perhaps, or get the excuse of the release to get one.

I guess there may be possibility to sold something like 50-100 cartridges at really best, if the game is good and runs on a basic GX4000/464PLUS/6128PLUS.

50 units would be a reasonable start.

If you want to be vicious, get some "protection" so the game can't run on emulator nor disc/rom board, demoscene somewhat manage to do it.
And the Amstrad Scene may be willing to support such production, by not hacking it buy an actual official copy.
Also you can secretly number individually each ROM produced, also take note of your customer's list.


And new cartridges would have a different casing so can be recognised as well.

Still to manage the production of actual cartridge is problematic.

No one want to put money for such thing as there are no games to put in those cartridges, and no one is willing to do games to put in cartridges because there are not cartridges produced.

Yeah, quite a loose-loose situation here.

where games like Klax or Switchblade etc we're just slight upgrades.

Klax has upgrades on Cartridge version
Which ones ?

[andycadley]

I suspect the community is small enough that if you had an "official" outlet, most people would go there rather than buy eBay bootlegs. There would probably need to be a certain amount of overlap anyway, since the people capable of writing the games may not be the people capable of making the carts. Frankly if somebody was producing "official" versions with proper packaging and such (like Cronosoft does for cassette games) I'd be inclined to buy a copy even if it was a game I wrote!

I don't think anyone could make any real money of the venture, so the target really ought to be whether it's practical to do so and break even.

[Trebmint]

I suspect the community is small enough that if you had an "official" outlet, most people would go there rather than buy eBay bootlegs. There would probably need to be a certain amount of overlap anyway, since the people capable of writing the games may not be the people capable of making the carts. Frankly if somebody was producing "official" versions with proper packaging and such (like Cronosoft does for cassette games) I'd be inclined to buy a copy even if it was a game I wrote!

I don't think anyone could make any real money of the venture, so the target really ought to be whether it's practical to do so and break even.

The idea isnt about making money, its about
1. making any games that come out look themed, creating a cohesive looking collection for people that wanna collect.
2. Stop ebay sellers just burning ROMs of other peoples work and selling it. Atleast any ebay buyers will know what they are buying.
3. Its not about making a central portal for selling new games, just giving a genuine stamp of approval, release number and framework for the box art, which I assume will be a printed sheet which would slip into a black VHS case???


Personally if and when it becomes possible I'd like to do a limited release of say 10-20 carts for each game and charge cost... others can charge nothing or more or whatever making as many or as few carts as they want. This is just an idea so that these new releases would form a new collectable range and make the GX scene more vibrant.

[dcdrac]

I would go for it, got a 464 plus, 6128 plus and a gx4000, and 10 of the original carts.

[steve]

A nice "official" case would be good, but it would not stop bootleggers selling the cartridge only, like a real publisher you would have to offer a complete package with case, arty cover, printed colour manual, cartridge and maybe a little gadget to enhance the users experience of the game, like a wand for a game like sorcery or a codewheel for a puzzle type game.
Perhaps one day we will have a web-browser cartridge complete with network port or WiFi chip so we can download games directly to an HxC floppy emulator or CF harddrive.

[TotO]

"Bootleggers" only done that for original GX4000 games, because it's collectible.

[MacDeath]

Quite true. If new cartridges are "black or diferently designed", it's a sign it is not "really vintage collectable" because available at the moment.

Officially...


Real connaisseurs know the basics after all. Amstrad community has enough visibility so only suckers would be sucking...

but still the "scene/users" are a well known community and 50 units would normally sell out well... perhaps even 100 if good game because of the retro console collectionners (gotta catch'em all...).

Just the "cpcwiki" peoples :
10+ peoples in spain, 15+ peoples in France, 10+ peopels in BritaniaUK, and a few germans/Austrians/Greeks/Nordics/wharever... Really not that hard to find 50 buyers be it on a semi-long period.

Then add those retroconsolefags all around the world... +50 "probably".


Provided some production would be the very first new one, it would sell well just because it would be a source of ACID replacement... still better than an original burnin' ruber to cannibalize.




What were the sales for Orion Prime ? or other modern officially released games ? those spanish games on tapes... how many were sold ?
Are we talking about 10's or 100's ?

would be nice to know and get some proper charts, be it downloaded or bought....

[Nich]

What were the sales for Orion Prime ? or other modern officially released games ? those spanish games on tapes... how many were sold ?
Are we talking about 10's or 100's ?

would be nice to know and get some proper charts, be it downloaded or bought....

I don't know about downloads, but Targhan has previously posted on the CPCWiki forum that 175 physical copies were sold - 121 of the French version, 33 of the English version, and 21 of the Spanish version.

[Gryzor]

Orion Prime was an awesome production.


Well, there could be a stamp onto the plastic of the new cartridges to signify they're new, but since anyone could probably buy them it wouldn't be much good. Print a hologram seal?

[arnoldemu]

Orion Prime was an awesome production.


Well, there could be a stamp onto the plastic of the new cartridges to signify they're new, but since anyone could probably buy them it wouldn't be much good. Print a hologram seal?

I think it would be nice if all the materials were available to download so anyone can make one. I think initially there should be a limited release of physical copies. To make them special perhaps some kind of serial or name could be put into the cart code. The downloadable one has a different code.

We can't stop bootlegs. Just need a way to identify them as different from the physical release. If people want to sell on their cart from the original release then this should be ok too.

Allowing bootleggers to buy our cases and pcb could help to keep it all going and stop old carts being 're used. A hologram would be hard to print so something simpler is best for us.

Perhaps something more simple like a badge the design of which is not free to download. Official carts come with a collector's badge or something  Electra from the free release. I think we will only know when the first is made and sold.