ORIGINAL GAMES PLEASE

[mr_lou]

Nothing is more demotivating than criticism on a project idea.

Contrary to what most people seem to believe, criticizing a project-idea will not make the developer drop the project in favour of your own idea. It'll more likely just make the developer drop the project all together and thus not do anything for the CPC at all.

[EgoTrip]

i've started posting a variation on this when similar topics appear elsewhere... if anybody feels that their genre/game/idea of choice isn't represented/has been slighted/could do with more representation then there's always the option of picking up a decent cross assembler and a couple of teach yourself Z80 books. There's enough folks here with the skills to help if you get stuck, others who've got the graphics or musical skills to plug those gaps if you don't feel able to do them yourself and you're never going to have a shortage of playtesters or technical advice.

I've been there. I wanted to create a prototype RPG mini-game for the Plus, with the view to expanding on the engine and creating something more complex if it got a positive reception. I have music, I have semi-reasonable graphics. I have the game all laid out in detail. I even have created mockups in GM, which create a rough idea of what I want the game to look like. What I don't have, and cannot do myself to any degree of competence, is the actual coding. Belive me I have, and still am, trying, but its just something I dont have the ability to do, it just wont click no matter how hard I try. I have attempted to work with 3 coders, and 2 of them blatantly messed me around and the other didn't have time. Maybe my ideas just sucked and they didn't have the balls to tell me straight? So don't say I haven't tried myself, or asked for help.

[EgoTrip]

Actually, if you look at the releases of 2012 alone (according to CPCPower), you'll see that only a few of them are shooties and remakes.

- Strategy
Strego (English translation)

- Adventure
Hampa 1930
Le Mur De Berlin Va Sauter

- Arcade
Pac-Man Arcade
BB4CPC (Version 4, August 2012)

- Shoot 'Em Up
R-Type
Super Edge Grinder

- Action/Fighting
Sardina Forever
Viaje Al Centro De La Tierra (Version Extendida)
Imaginario Colectivo

And, to be honest, I am aware of at least 2 more original platform games and another puzzler remake in production. So, I think there are a lot of non-shooties and non-remakes for CPC already planned/released. More are obviously welcome, but so are more shooties and more remakes! MORE GAMES! MORE DEMOS! MORE THINGS TO MAKE THE CPC FUCKING AWESOME! (puhleeze!)


EDIT: Looking back at 2011, CPCPower shows 2 shoot 'em ups, 1 adventure, 3 platformers and the amazing BB4CPC! 2010 had 2 arcade/action games, 2 puzzlers, 2 platformers and 1 shoot 'em up (Dead On Time).

So why is none of this being posted on the wiki front page? How are people supposed to know if they are not all over the CPC scene websites? I had no idea so many productions were released, because no attention was brought to them. The only ones I did know about were Edge Grinder, R-Type, Bubble Bobble, and Sub Hunter. So maybe you can see why I assumed that people only worked on shooters and remakes.


As for demo's, I think they are ok to show off coding skills but I am not a massive fan of them. I'd prefer it if the coders put their skills to a more practical use, and their routines are part of an actual game (title screen, cutscenes, completion scene etc)

[tastefulmrship]

I've been there. I wanted to create a prototype RPG mini-game for the Plus, with the view to expanding on the engine and creating something more complex if it got a positive reception. I have music, I have semi-reasonable graphics. I have the game all laid out in detail. I even have created mockups in GM, which create a rough idea of what I want the game to look like. What I don't have, and cannot do myself to any degree of competence, is the actual coding. Belive me I have, and still am, trying, but its just something I dont have the ability to do, it just wont click no matter how hard I try. I have attempted to work with 3 coders, and 2 of them blatantly messed me around and the other didn't have time. Maybe my ideas just sucked and they didn't have the balls to tell me straight? So don't say I haven't tried myself, or asked for help.

Why don't you start with BASIC? My first posts here were to introduce everyone to my pathetic attempts at game coding. BASIC Games: Pocoro Legends & Shape Switcher.
From there, you simply change things, add things, and convert bits from BASIC to assembler until you have a proper Z80 M/Code game. Then, as TMR so rightly put it, you expand; either the original game or another project. You said you have graphics and music, well that is a LARGE percentage of the game already done! If you post code and/or any problems you are experiencing, then people here can (and WILL) help! This is the point of a community. There are many examples of the community working for a common goal, why not make the NEXT community project YOUR game?

Basically, don't give up! Even if you do 1 line of code a week, it's still 1 more line of code closer to your goal! The only person stopping your project from being a reality is YOU!

So why is none of this being posted on the wiki front page? How are people supposed to know if they are not all over the CPC scene websites? I had no idea so many productions were released, because no attention was brought to them. The only ones I did know about were Edge Grinder, R-Type, Bubble Bobble, and Sub Hunter. So maybe you can see why I assumed that people only worked on shooters and remakes.

If you believe the Wiki is not being updated enough, why don't YOU update it? Check CPCPower, CPCRulez and the GAMES forum here to see what is being worked on or released and then update the front page of the Wiki? Why not trawl the German, French and Spanish forums for snippets of games in production, too? Google Translator isn't brilliant, but you can get the jist of conversations!

[TMR]

What I don't have, and cannot do myself to any degree of competence, is the actual coding. Belive me I have, and still am, trying, but its just something I dont have the ability to do, it just wont click no matter how hard I try. I have attempted to work with 3 coders, and 2 of them blatantly messed me around and the other didn't have time. Maybe my ideas just sucked and they didn't have the balls to tell me straight? So don't say I haven't tried myself, or asked for help.

i wasn't really talking about you specifically (no offence, but i wasn't aware of what you'd done previously and i'll be surprised if you know me from Adam too =-) and was instead talking generally based on what i've seen over the years. But any form of RPG isn't what i would, based on that experience, advise as a starter project because there's lots of behind-the-scenes data juggling to bog down programming and testing, increasing the odds that motivation will be lost before the end; i know a couple of guys working on a more substantial RPG who, despite about thirty five years of machine code programming experience between them and a few published games under their collective belt, have just taken three years just getting from one publicly released beta to the next.

To clarify a little, when i talk about keeping it simple i really do mean limiting the game design to just a number of moving objects on a static screen that interact on collision. i'm not even talking Pac-Man here because that's a far more complicated game than most people ever realise, this is about keeping it to the bare bones and, if it's to be released when that's working, tuning the playability and polishing it up.

And i'm not sure how the more experienced CPC coders will feel about this advice so i'm starting the paragraph with a disclaimer, but i'd say target the CPC Plus for a first project because having hardware sprites will remove the need for a novice to write a reasonably complex, optimised software sprite routine for the simple game i described. And like tastefulmrship says, if machine code is too daunting start with BASIC or perhaps a compiled language, because being a coder isn't the end of the learning curve and there's always new things to discover, explore or prod at and you can guarantee that your first piece of code on a platform will always be flawed but there are at least nice people here who'll explain where you're going wrong... it works better if you talk to them before releasing into the wild of course. =-)

As for demo's, I think they are ok to show off coding skills but I am not a massive fan of them. I'd prefer it if the coders put their skills to a more practical use, and their routines are part of an actual game (title screen, cutscenes, completion scene etc)

Many of the things you see in demos (or more accurately the good demos) just aren't viable for that kind of situation, the techniques required to get a lot of these effects working require significant blocks of memory for pre-shifted data or unrolled code that aren't available for a mere presentational feature on a game.

Demo coders usually get far more in the way of feedback as well so it's enticing on that level and there are large scale competitions with substantial prizes to be won, peer recognition, the works. Hmm... perhaps a games competition for the CPC would persuade people to finish those projects they've hit the wall with?

[mr_lou]

Why don't you start with BASIC? My first posts here were to introduce everyone to my pathetic attempts at game coding. BASIC Games: Pocoro Legends & Shape Switcher.

Wow. I've never seen those before. Must have been posted during one of my CPC-breaks.
Well done! Good music conversions in Shape Switcher. Although none of the game-styles appeal to me, they are certainly a well done. I also like that you don't use the standard font.

[arnoldemu]

Wow. I've never seen those before. Must have been posted during one of my CPC-breaks.
Well done! Good music conversions in Shape Switcher. Although none of the game-styles appeal to me, they are certainly a well done. I also like that you don't use the standard font.

they're not on cpc-power either.

[tastefulmrship]

they're not on cpc-power either.

There's a perfectly good reason for that; they're all shyte and examples of dire drivel that even Amsoft would have turned down back in the day. However, they are 3 examples of a project that I started and was determined to see to completion.

Pocoro Legends was my first attempt; 100% BASIC. Then went on to Shape Shifter, which uses a modified |SPRITE routine from ACU. My next project, a MUCH larger project with some other people here, will be 100% ASM and I hope to finish it whenever it's done.

[arnoldemu]

There's a perfectly good reason for that; they're all shyte and examples of dire drivel that even Amsoft would have turned down back in the day. However, they are 3 examples of a project that I started and was determined to see to completion.

Pocoro Legends was my first attempt; 100% BASIC. Then went on to Shape Shifter, which uses a modified |SPRITE routine from ACU. My next project, a MUCH larger project with some other people here, will be 100% ASM and I hope to finish it whenever it's done.

All games should be on cpc-power

[mr_lou]

There's a perfectly good reason for that; they're all shyte and examples of dire drivel that even Amsoft would have turned down back in the day.

Ok. Yes, I see your point. Your games there rank at least 825 places below such awesome games as e.g. Advanced Lawnmowing Simulator. </sarcasm>

When our simple Sort'em game seemingly belongs there, so does your games.

[EgoTrip]

Why don't you start with BASIC? My first posts here were to introduce everyone to my pathetic attempts at game coding. BASIC Games: Pocoro Legends & Shape Switcher.
From there, you simply change things, add things, and convert bits from BASIC to assembler until you have a proper Z80 M/Code game. Then, as TMR so rightly put it, you expand; either the original game or another project. You said you have graphics and music, well that is a LARGE percentage of the game already done! If you post code and/or any problems you are experiencing, then people here can (and WILL) help! This is the point of a community. There are many examples of the community working for a common goal, why not make the NEXT community project YOUR game?

Basically, don't give up! Even if you do 1 line of code a week, it's still 1 more line of code closer to your goal! The only person stopping your project from being a reality is YOU!
If you believe the Wiki is not being updated enough, why don't YOU update it? Check CPCPower, CPCRulez and the GAMES forum here to see what is being worked on or released and then update the front page of the Wiki? Why not trawl the German, French and Spanish forums for snippets of games in production, too? Google Translator isn't brilliant, but you can get the jist of conversations!

BASIC is not good enough. Its that simple. Besides I suck at that too, my code is always bloated and slow, and when it comes to tidying it up I end up messing everything up.


As for editing the wiki, how the hell can I do that when I dont even know all those projects existed? I come here to find out stuff, and if its not on the wiki then the wiki clearly is not serving its purpose. It is up to the people involved in the projects, or the wiki admins, to update things. If I ever complete a project, then I will edit the wiki to include it.

[Gryzor]

[Posts about editing the wiki moved here: Homepage/News editing]

[TFM]

Ok, back to topic.
Well, just out of curiosity. Who is currently working on an own game? I don't ask for any details, just it you are working on one or not. Maybe we get a bit of insight into future software which may come up...

[sigh]

Working on:


1)  Beat em up,
2)  Footy game (pretty much done apart from title and option screens)



On the back burner:

3)  Music RPG game (space channel 5/rhythm tengoku style)
4)  Puzzle game (similar to Beambender on the Amiga)

[TMR]

Well, just out of curiosity. Who is currently working on an own game?

At the moment no, but when i get the decks cleared and a little more free time i have something relatively simple (on the design front at least) that i want to give a try...

[rexbeng]

I'm waiting for TMR's next format war C64 game to be released; and then make it better on the CPC


rb

[arnoldemu]

Ok, back to topic.
Well, just out of curiosity. Who is currently working on an own game? I don't ask for any details, just it you are working on one or not. Maybe we get a bit of insight into future software which may come up...

I am. No more details

[TMR]

I'm waiting for TMR's next format war C64 game to be released; and then make it better on the CPC

The next game probably won't be mine, but nobody else has stepped up to produce the lead game either and there's nothing to stop the next Collabortition(tm) from starting on the Amstrad if you want to take the lead. But remember that the plan for at least the first collabortitions was to not go bonkers and Edge Grinder was deliberately kept simple to make it easier and to a degree more inviting to port; one level is less daunting a task than five or ten, the object count maxes out at eight because that seemed a reasonable ask for most 8-bits and the number of objects per scanline is artificially limited to what the Atari 8-bit guys asked for to make their version viable.

The really difficult bit is convincing anyone else on FWar to give your design a try on their platform of choice. =-)

[rexbeng]

@TMR: is there an A8 version of EG coming after all? I kind of was under the impression that the whole project died out.


rb

[TMR]

@TMR: is there an A8 version of EG coming after all? I kind of was under the impression that the whole project died out.

It's on the back burner... well, at the moment it appears to be in a totally different kitchen but nobody involved has said that it's officially abandoned yet and there's nothing to stop someone else having a go using different techniques!

[tastefulmrship]

Well, just out of curiosity. Who is currently working on an own game? I don't ask for any details, just it you are working on one or not. Maybe we get a bit of insight into future software which may come up...

Well, once I get back into the world of business and working and not pissing around at home pretending to beta-test applications for a company that has refused to pay me for 6 months (despite doing 9 months worth of work for them), I will get back to the two main projects that I am slowly formulating with Morn.

1. A top-down action game; it will be a sequel to a 6128 manual type-in game!

2. An RTS game in the vein of Total Annihilation or Warcraft II (but not a direct port of either game).

[Gryzor]

1. A top-down action game; it will be a sequel to a 6128 manual type-in game!

2. An RTS game in the vein of Total Annihilation or Warcraft II (but not a direct port of either game).

Second one sounds very exciting; as for the first, not many type-ins ever got a sequel Will you be offering the listing?

[tastefulmrship]

as for the first, not many type-ins ever got a sequel Will you be offering the listing?

The idea is to recreate the feel of the original ACU & AA type-ins. So, we plan to release the game in monthly "stages"; printed out in 80s style DotMatrix print (where l & 1 & I all look the same) and so giving people time to type the code they have before we release the next batch! Within 8 or 9 months, you should have a fully working game... or, if we're exact with our recreation of 80s type-ins, you won't! It will crash in specific places (if it even RUNs at all) and there will be a blatant failure (we're planning for it to be a SYNTAX ERROR) just before you complete the game.
Oh, and at least one of the print-outs will contain a checksum error... or several!

[TFM]

haha, in this case you should do a remake of 'CPC Schneider/Amstrad International'. They (nearly) never had that kind of problems.

[Gryzor]

I like the idea. Please also make it so we confuse O and 0's, but do add a checksum system, won't you? Smudges on the scan will also provide an additional challenge for expert typers.