I was thinking that some games could be improved a little it the game was patched.
An example is to fix the gitching scrolling on R-Type.
Another would be to improve scrolling speed on Xevious ;)
What do others think?
It would be cool to see Cauldron 1 game with scrolling one day. Like on the C64.
Ahhh... R-type. I think Cauldron would be a different endeavour altogether though.
But at what level would it be done? Decompile the entire game and rewrite the relevant code?
Quote from: Gryzor on 16:37, 03 November 09
Ahhh... R-type. I think Cauldron would be a different endeavour altogether though.
But at what level would it be done? Decompile the entire game and rewrite the relevant code?
I was thinking that some of it could be done by poking the existing code instead of a re-write. I was also thinking small changes which would make a difference.
So not re-writing it.
I think some games could be speeded up a little with a few pokes here and there.
Quote from: arnoldemu on 15:41, 03 November 09
I was thinking that some games could be improved a little it the game was patched.
An example is to fix the gitching scrolling on R-Type.
Another would be to improve scrolling speed on Xevious ;)
What do others think?
This is a good idea , that would be interesting too for stripped down versions of some games that were ported to CPC.
When I came back to CPC hobby, I was looking for a way to re-do all those scrappy speccy ports.
I worked a bitt on graphics...Because I definitly suck at coding...
Black Tiger and R-Type.
I'm sure they don't need that much fixing...just a proper management of graphics so the CPC can understand them well, and so they can be good despite in mode1.
Almost all of those games used only 64Ko RAM... and weren't PLUS featured...
This leaves us a kool margin.
R-Type is a typicall cult game from this era.
And CPC version is perhaps the worst..yet we liked it...because faithfull to the arcade too.
With all you, good coders and programmers, the analysis of such game can be done collectively.
Just share your informations !!!
As you probably seen, I already reworked R-Type graphics in Mode 1...
Why not ?
So, if some good coders are at work on it, I can do the re-work of graphics more seriously.
Also, er..
Black tiger with the engine of Satan perhaps ? (lol)
PacMania would be great too...
And also a good job on HeroQuest maybe...
Call me.
Also, the addition of a scrolling to non-croller game.
Why not.
Wizball maybe would be great with such a scrolling in a 6128+ edition...
Barbarian 2 also could make a good use of a scrolling in a 6128+ edition too, or simply adding real PLUS graphics...
Quote from: MacDeath on 16:41, 16 November 09R-Type is a typicall cult game from this era.
And CPC version is perhaps the worst..yet we liked it...because faithfull to the arcade too.
R-Type is , sadly , a good example.Technicaly it is poor but is still good as the original is great.
I am pretty sure it could be dramaticaly improved in terms of appearance, sound and maybe speed but the most difficult has to be done : a correct reverse engineering :s
Saboteur II is for me another example of speccy port that could be awesome instead of great (as a lot of durell games that are great but graphicaly poor).First i am pretty sure it could be a bit faster and mode 0 would allow a great ambiance.Sound is already perfect with a great tune.
For Amstrad 6128+, TwinWorld would be a good candidate.It is double buffered and i am pretty sure the rendering code could be improved.It provides already a nice split screen and i think colorfull graphics in mode 0 would be great for this game that is already excellent but i think it is a bit sad in comparaison of the 16bits original.
Yes :D !!! Twinworld is a fucking good game :D would be super in mode 0 :D
Yes it is great, some music would be welcome too :D
About R-type, the guy who wrote Spectrum version (bob (or robert) pape) wrote GameBoy version too.He is credited in CPC version that let think the code has been ported directly to CPC by keith A. Goodyer.
There is an interesting talk on the Wiki about this game : http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Talk:R-Type (http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Talk:R-Type)
You can notice Atari ST users had not a lot of chance with the ST version as it suffers of problems , enemies seem to move on 8*8 grid that is awfull for a 16 bits version...
Honnestly, just having really the 4 colours per characters graphics and a bit faster stuff would be awesome for the game itself.
And the inter-levels stuff can always be added, so musics, better graphic presentation and so on.
I will work on a good portage of the C64 présentation page.
The CPC one is in fact a portage of the Speccy, too shitfull as the C64 one is in pseudo Mode0 on C64, and better designed.
Also yes, every Atari ST Musics can be ported, but it may be heavier on the game if those musics are in-game.
The only thing I regret, Fano told me it may be impossible to mask the sprites properly.
Well maybe if we only use 3 colours for them ?
Masqued sprites would be a great improovement i think.
Why not a pseudo colour attribute system enabling to use 3 colours per charcters on sprites, then the 4th colours used to mask.
With the use of a pseudo colour attribute system, it may then be possible to use different colours for masking, thus having perhaps 3 colors per characters.
Sprites having more than 1 characters and already a pseudo attribute system, why not ?
But a lot of work is needed then, and the goal is also to get rid of this Attribute system to gain a lot of CPU...if not memory.
Also, a simple stuff would be to add colours in the HUD.
Maybe easy as it allready include a Raster colours change...
This easily allow 2 more colours as only red is really used.
Of course the Death messages are using more colours if i remember well ("pilot stand by"), but those are game's window's colours...
It's a minor detail, but even this wasn't done properly as usual with Speccy ports.
A raster to only gain 1 colours on screen and 1 bit graphics...so shamefull...
As for BlackTiger or PacMania...
No more Gross Development, hail for the real Cross Dev. !!!
I think the CPC version just needs to run a bit faster, and maybe in mode 0. This will distinguish it from the Speccy version, and go some way towards bettering it. The CPC deserved a better conversion than the 'RType' we all know and love... but saying that, I still enjoyed it.
I can think of many more games that I'd give a higher priority towards improving on, over 'RType'.
Quote from: ukmarkh on 12:22, 23 November 09
I think the CPC version just needs to run a bit faster
So let remove the starfield first, this shit is bugged and runs under interrupt so it eats approx 10% of the cpu time per frame :s
From my point, R-Type is great in terms of gameplay (thx to Irem and bob Pape for his great port on speccy) but sucks technicaly , it is just a Spectrum game put on a CPC code layer.It can be greatly patched to 128K with real CPC graphics and music.
I have already written an extractor to export sprites in BMP format (see on R-Type talk) and i'll write soon the patch to integrate new graphics into the game.
You can put here the list you want to see patched.
This is mine :
- Rick Dangerous (almost done lol)
- R-Type (wip)
- Twinworld
- Saboteur II
Yep, the starfield is bugged ?
It is useless too...
most levels are suposed to be interiors.
Also it is still displayed when static bosses are on screen...
So it may per exemple be displayed only in few sequences and limited parts of levels...and not every ones...
Or simply busted into garbage !
It even makes the unmasked aspect more visible...
That starfield always bugged me, always wished I could have turned it off... maybe one day I'll be able to.
I've been banging on about the need for touching up 'Bionic Commando' for ages now. This game done properly would have been one of the best on the CPC. Another game I'd like to see get a makeover is 'Myth' this game is awesome, but It's a crying shame it didn't include music and a touch of colour, plus the last level of the Speccy version is missing. Then we have 'Super Hang-on' needs more colour and speeding up a little, runs a lot slower than the other versions. Moving on 'Super Monaco GP' has everything, apart from speed... this needs speeding up and then you'll have probably the best F1 game on the CPC. Dare I mention it, but the scrolling on 'Green Beret' always made me feel like I'd chose the wrong machine, I'd play it in the arcade and on a mates C64 and be blown away. Bubble Bobble is crying out to be improved, and the same is to be said for Outrun. Oh, and imagine Joe Blade in colour and with music playing.
Hope this helps.
Quote from: ukmarkh on 16:32, 23 November 09
That starfield always bugged me, always wished I could have turned it off... maybe one day I'll be able to.
I've been banging on about the need for touching up 'Bionic Commando' for ages now. This game done properly would have been one of the best on the CPC. Another game I'd like to see get a makeover is 'Myth' this game is awesome, but It's a crying shame it didn't include music and a touch of colour, plus the last level of the Speccy version is missing. Then we have 'Super Hang-on' needs more colour and speeding up a little, runs a lot slower than the other versions. Moving on 'Super Monaco GP' has everything, apart from speed... this needs speeding up and then you'll have probably the best F1 game on the CPC. Dare I mention it, but the scrolling on 'Green Beret' always made me feel like I'd chose the wrong machine, I'd play it in the arcade and on a mates C64 and be blown away. Bubble Bobble is crying out to be improved, and the same is to be said for Outrun. Oh, and imagine Joe Blade in colour and with music playing.
Hope this helps.
A new version of Bubble Bobble has already been started by CNGSoft. I don't know of the progress at the moment.
I agree with you on the others.
I also believe that Wizball is poor compared to the c64 version.
I think that some games will require re-writes, others may require less changes (e.g. to speed up super monaco gp and outrun). I'm not saying any of these will be an easy task, more that some games require more changes than others.
I already have a plan to improve one already good cpc game for plus. Can't say anymore at this time.
Bionic Commando is beyond redemption indeed...
The Speccy port is soo scrapped you just can't do anything with this scrappy junk...(and I stay polite)
Just to start a new engine would be easier to get a good game !!!
About R-type: Indeed the graphics do look a bit pale, especially compared to the speccy and the c64 version. Always felt that the game had a bit of a "steely-electronic" -look. Of cause once you have seen the other versions of the game you know you are missing something. The amstrad version is probably also the slowest version of the 3, but that is actually a advantage as it make is possible to reach the end of the game.
Quote from: arnoldemu on 17:14, 23 November 09
A new version of Bubble Bobble has already been started by CNGSoft. I don't know of the progress at the moment.
Yea I've been trying to figure out what happening with that one too. I hope it hasn't been abandoned. That would be a real shame. Last demo I saw, as far as I remember, all levels where there. It would be soooo coool with a better Bubble Bobble game for the CPC.
Can it be possible to add a scrolling to a "non scroller" game ?
Stuff like Green Berets, Gryzor or Wizzball may be nice with scrollings...
I'd imagine not, you could probably keep and re-use the graphics, but the majority of code would probably have to be re-started from scratch. I think we should leave the likes of Gryzor well alone, there are plenty of other games on the CPC that need improving on.
Quote from: MacDeath on 20:19, 24 November 09
Can it be possible to add a scrolling to a "non scroller" game ?
Stuff like Green Berets, Gryzor or Wizzball may be nice with scrollings...
I think R-Type's speed is adequate. Since it's difficult enough as it is, if it gets any faster it'll become a real nightmare... So I'd concentrate on other aspects, maybe making it smoother. Maybe...
Well, masking the sprites would be so sweet...
But Fano said it won't do...er...maybe with a bit more rewriting/address changes ?
Also I suggested him to try some rasters colour changes on levels 5 and 8...
Those evels have simple backgroung that can theorically be rastered indeed.
May allow an incredible 10 colours on the screen (more if special border colour...lol... or even no-Black ink zones...)
But then the screen would get 4 zones (including HUD) with different palettes (well, lets say 4 horizontal zones and 3 palettes...)
Yet this seems "doable" and must be tried..
Concerning the well known amstrad's slow motion... It's true that it helps a lot of game to be easier indeed.
On Rick Dangerous, it show a slow motion when you kill ennemies...no ?
"Not a flaw, a feature"**
**as Speccist say about colour clashes...lol...
Yet just busting out this shitty starfield would indeed do a great favour to R-type, and re-coding the graphics, busting out also those vestigal speccy codes too.
Yet if one of you, coders, could try a proper masking for sprites...thx.
Each R-type frame takes minimum 70000nops , so 4VBL per image at minimum.Some things would be easy to improve like sprites rendering or starfield.The scrolling code seems to bit more tricky and would not be easy to improve.
I think everyone involved with the re-coding of the CPC R-Type should at least experience the Speccy version at least once... you'll see that the speed of the game is very important, makes it more frantic and exciting. Some levels can take ages to complete on the CPC, and although I love the CPC version, the lack of speed does sometimes grate and make the whole thing a breeze to complete. This shouldn't be the case, the arcade, PC-Engine, Amiga and Speccy versions are infamous for there difficulty, R-Type is the game in which a player should aim no higher than mere survival, and only really hope for a high score. Only a few brave and skilled pilots should ever manage to pilot the R9 through to the last of R-Type's eight massive stages. Once there, and probably through luck alone, the action of punching the air violently on completion was prize enough. This is why difficulty is important, along with the speed, and even today it's an accomplishment worth bragging about.
It's the reason why R-Type is pretty much considered no.1, and the CPC version should follow suit.
That's a shame because , as speecy version that is the same except speed, enemy patterns on CPC version are close to original.
Quote from: ukmarkh on 13:45, 30 November 09
I think everyone involved with the re-coding of the CPC R-Type should at least experience the Speccy version at least once...
Have a particular emulator to recommend for me ?
To be a bit off topic but not really, if you like R-Type , i'd recommend the PC Engine CD² version that is exceptionnal (maybe better than arcarde !)
Quote from: fano on 18:52, 30 November 09
That's a shame because , as speecy version that is the same except speed, enemy patterns on CPC version are close to original.
Have a particular emulator to recommend for me ?
To be a bit off topic but not really, if you like R-Type , i'd recommend the PC Engine CD² version that is exceptionnal (maybe better than arcarde !)
For the speccy, the best is www.spectaculator.com
The PC Engine version isn't as good as the Amiga version, never mind the arcade. But yes, it's good... apart from the up and down scrolling, really off putting, apparantly down to the PCEngines resolution.
Hum that my be discussed if you take count about great cut scenes and CD sound ;) (and one extra boss)
OMG ! Speccy version was a disturbing experience , that was like playing CPC R-Type at a correct frame rate (3VBL/image ?) and some extra colors, except of that this is exactly the same ;D (except sound)
As i saw , the MSX version looks a lot as a Spectrum like w/ 16 colors tiles...
;) Bye from an italian fan of AMSTRAD CPC, i am back, i read this post, want tell the games wich i think can be path graphically, "IS POSSIBLE?"
1) IMPOSSIBLE MISSION (the amstrad version has terrible graphic) an version with graphic more detailed is possible?
2) PACMANIA (only a colour) (more colors is possible?)
3) IMPOSSIBLE MISSION 2 (is good, but has terrible fx sound)
4) Bubble bobble (Music when play, and more colors)
5) STRIDER ( is fantastic, but more colors?)
P.s. please boys, i search the editor for made the levels of GAUNTLET game for AMSTRAD, i have see wich is avaiable "FREE" for SPECTRUM VERSION", but for AMSTRAD?
Thank you.
OPS another question.
PREHISTORIK 1 & 2 AND SUPER CAULDRON have the CASSETTE VERSION or only DISK VERSION?
I have the CASSETTE VERSION of TITUS THE FOX, :) .
Pacmania was an excellent conversion... if it could be made any better it'd be even awesomer!
I think Impossible Mission sucks overall, not much hope to fix this one...
Bubble Bobble has been discussed, I think; for me, the mechanics are there, if we could substitute the sprites it'd be great!
Gryzor: First of all, why can't I quote reply to your posts?
Anyway, Pacmania as you rightly put it is an excellent conversion... it's a shame Pac-man isn't coloured in yellow and the ghosts in their respective colours.
About Impossible Mission, do you think its just sucks on the CPC? Or a bad game in general across all systems inc the C64??
As for the CPC version of Bubble Bobble, the design might look ok, but there are lots of little touches and level bonuses missing. The Speccy and C64 versions really show the CPC version up for the lazy conversion it is.
:) Impossible mission is fantastic on C64, but a remix graphic on AMSTRAD is the right solution, i have finished impossible mission (amstrad version) wich is more difficult of Commodore 64 version.
I have see a Demo of BUBBLE BOBBLE for amstrad with new graphic (bubble bobble 4 demo)
is F A N T A S T I C !!! ;D.
Please know if PREHISTORIK 1 -2 and SUPER CAULDRON have a cassette version?
ops and THE HURLEMENTS, NIGHT HUNTER?
I have only a cpc 464 with cassette.
Hmmm! For some reason I had never played Hurlements... looks interesting.
The BB4 demo looked fine indeed (found here (http://cpcrulez.fr/GamesDL_free/index.php?list=B) btw).
I think Prehistorik and Super Cauldron were 128k only, and thus disk-only...
Quote from: ukmarkh on 15:02, 08 December 09
Gryzor: First of all, why can't I quote reply to your posts?
Can't you? Is it only with my posts or in general? Weird...
Quote from: ukmarkh on 15:02, 08 December 09
Anyway, Pacmania as you rightly put it is an excellent conversion... it's a shame Pac-man isn't coloured in yellow and the ghosts in their respective colours.
And to think I never got into Pacman - but Pacmania really got me!
Quote from: ukmarkh on 15:02, 08 December 09
About Impossible Mission, do you think its just sucks on the CPC? Or a bad game in general across all systems inc the C64??
Actually, I had Saboteur in mind when I spoke. But still, Saboteur is not that nice... the c64 version is sleek like the 5eme axe on the CPC. I think IM suffers from the overall game design - very hard etc - rather than aesthetically...
Bubble Bobble is fine even though its missing a lot of things. I am a HUGE bubble bobble fan and I played that to death, so its an acceptable conversion. C64 one was much better annoyingly. Then you have the gameboy version which SCROLLS THE SCREEN around!!!
so it could do with a dash of colour and definitely put the secret rooms/bonuses in.
Ladies and Gentlemen.... please, let's just get one thing straight here...
The CPC version of Bubble Bobble was most definitely not acceptable!!!!. Having played that game constantly on the real arcade machine, I was so unbelievably disappointed by the CPC version when it came out. There's so much missing I can't believe it, and it's slow and it's just a plain sad port that doesn't do the CPC justice at all!
If the CPC Bubble Bobble 4 ever gets done, it sure looks like it'll be the Bubble Bobble port the CPC deserves, so I'm still hoping for that one to be finished.
The C64 version of Bubble Bobble is about the best of a bad bunch, really. The gameplay in general is reasonably good, but pales in comparison to the Japanese produced MSX2 version.
Must check out the Amiga version of Bubble Bobble, see how that compares to the original PC version, and the 16/32-bit Japanese-produced versions (namely X68000 and FM-Towns).
EDIT: Had a quick try of the Amiga version, seems to be similar to the original PC version, but with somewhat nicer graphics. Unfortunately, some of the gameplay mechanics seem to have be ripped straight out of the CPC version... Most notably, the complete inability to push or be pushed by bubbles.
Quote from: Gryzor on 11:14, 08 December 09
Pacmania was an excellent conversion... if it could be made any better it'd be even awesomer!
Agreed. Markus had a look at the graphics for me. They are mode 2. I've not yet looked to see if there is enough ram to make them mode 1 or mode 0, so at the moment it's another that is going to take some work :(
Concerning BB, I used to play it on my ST back in the day with my girlfriend for hours, and I remember it being very good. But I haven't tried it since, is it the same as the Amiga version?
Still not sure about Pacmania in mode 1 or 2... it'd probably lose a lot of definition, *unless* the Plus palette was used for some nice shading and dithering, if possible?
=Bubble bobble : I didn't have it at the time. As sayd in wikipedia, most ports didn't feature the bonus system from arceade, especially computer ports. Also the Graphics on CPC don't seem very well finished...
It was a good game because of the fun concept, the 2 player mode and the fact the CPC version vasen"t that bad, yet not that awesome.
Sprites are very...small.
=Saboteur : I used to like the series...
But it remains far too Speccyported to be well corrected in my opinion.
Many speccy games were designed to deal with colour clashes and the only 2 colours per character limitation.
It imply Codes technics or even graphix design.
As a result many Speccy games are monochromatic for the best ones...
Or else many of them do have transparent sprites...
Another way to deal with colourclashes was to use unmasked sprites (see R-type) but the result is so shitty on an amstrad...
Look at Enduro Racer or some other Speccy ports (Bionic shitmmando).
Your sprite take the colour from the background (Enduro Racer when you jump...as exemple).
It's also the case in Saboteur.
Designed to deal with the shitty Speccy Graphical specs.
As a result, your "ninja" is black+ background's colour...even on CPC. and this si so bad !
Oh, and Saboteur is so sluggish and slow motionned...
On the other hand, many games were only designed to run on 464 so no use of extra memory and the less loading possible (as tapes were somewhat...you know).
So as we are in a modern era of CPC power, we may more easily put loading on cpc games (even with 464 configuration) as it is now possible to run games from CD or MP3 players, enabling a faster run of datas...
If you can put more loading, then you don't have to put the full games in RAM, only the current level for example)
And it's even better if you aim a 6128 version.
A good thing would be to reverse decipher games known for being "well done" speccy ports and the speccy version just to see the differences between the 2 versions.
Candidates may be :
--Shadow of the beast : not that impressive game, but graphism was redone on CPC to use well the 4 colours.
--Deflektor ?
--Strider : I found it not that good, re-use the Stryder 2 engine would be even better indeed. But it was a bit recoloured concerning sprites, as the background remains in mono-colour...
--Head over heels (maybe not that speccy ported in fact...seems to be more some kind of cross dev indeed...C64 and MSX were even more speccyported than CPC)
Many poor speccy ports on CPC featured pseudo colour attributes (you clearly see the square characters) and in fact emulated a speccy graphical specificity to read properly (well, not that properly) the 1bit coded graphics in a 2bit coded graphical mode (Mode1) just because Graphist's time was expensives and they didn't care.
Such a speccy emulation was a total waste of CPU.
Also, it is said the reduction of the screen was used to raise the CPU power but...well...are you sure ?
It was mostly done so the Speccy codes and graphics would be unchanged on Amstrad.
In many case the very small screen could imply more scrollings as each jump would put you out of screen.
A game with a bigger area allows to scroll a bit less in my opinion.
So is it a real gain to reduce the screen size ?
--Pacmania :
I talk about it on my CPCwiki's page.
It may be an easy one but graphics are 1bit coded.
Not "mode2" but mode1 coded in 1 bit.
This explains why it get sluggish.
Of course Datas use less space, but as you must get a "Speccy attributes emulator" the CPU suffers just as on R-Type.
A simple try would be to remove the "speccy emulator" part and get it running in mode2...just to see how it runs.
As a result you have even faulty pseudo character attribute's artefacts.
I did a mock up and yes, even a crudely coloured CPC version would be awesome.
Also this game is a bit sluggish. But as it include raster colour change (for the HUD) it may be easily improoved only by removing this, we would get a less coloured games, but hey, the real game is monochromatic in fact...
pacmania was so good mostly because of the real damn good music and interesting gameplay and cute graphics (despite B&W...)
It is perhaps the easiest candidate for a good improuvement even if we keep the Mode1 on.
Just getting Ghosts in one colour, Pacman and pills in yellow and background in a 3rd colour (black being the 4th colour) Would be enough.
Oh, the raster colour change on a monochromatic game...typical.
--Black tiger :
was like pacmania, exept pacmania remainded fun.
Would it be better just if we get rid of that awfull and useless raster colour chage ?
Also to put sound effects instyead of this bad music, would it be less consuming ? (maybe not)
--The way of the tiger
very well animated (maybe too many frames...) so far too slow.
And quite speccyed... sprites use background's colours if I remember well.
Maybe a lot of possibilities to fasten it a bit and use colours better...with a 6128+ version it may become awesome as it is a 464 designed speccy port.
Other good candidate : Bombjack series.
--Bombjack 1 & 2 were damn good games, yet the background picture was often...sort of..well...badly executed by a shitty graphist.
As the games are already perfect in gameplay and speed, just to re-do the tiles would be enough and easy.
Also using the PLUS 4096 palette totally awesome.
So we must differenciate :
--CPC game that were allready good an properly coded : just need new features (intro, musics) and graphics re-done or new level designs...(such as bombajck, or what we did on rick Dangerous), or a Plus add-on.
--Speccy ports : which need a heavier job, but this may be interesting even so slightly improuve those.
If we can find a proper way to re-code the graphics or put to trashbin the useless parts...methods are to be found.
A proper way to put real Scrollings in non-scrolling games may be great (Wizball, Greenberet or Gryzor anyone ? even Skweek...).
Also some games series were like Strider.
--1st game was an awfull speccy port.
--then second one was corrected and better, despite being basically the same game.
As a result it may be better to re-use the best engine to do a better version of the other games.
Exemples :
--Strider of course. Strider 2 is in Mode0. it even feature extra gameplay such as the pistol...just to remove this may allow more room then. and as a result we may have a strider 1 in Mode0. I should try strider2 again to see if it would fit.
--Renegade : er...different case. Renegade 3 was badly speccyed while target renegade wasn't. yet target renegade feature bad graphics while renegade 1 was awesome, yet 1 player only. But Target renegade engine would be good if properly reverse-analised.
--Space Harrier 1 & 2 : the 1st one is shitty thx to bad monsters. the second one is a lot better. re-use space harrier2 engine to re-do the first one then.
Wow, what a post... what are you going to redo next, then? :D
My room's paint...
My Wife :o
Tsk, tsk! What, a multiplayer upgrade? :D
Bubble Bobble:
Bought this game back in the day (horrible expensive) and wasnt really dissapointed at first. Of cause after playing for a while you quickly realise that a couple of small things really degraded the enjoyment of playing the game. A bit sad as it would have been so easy for the programmer to fix these tiny flaws.
- Continues: most people probably dont know this but the game does have a set no of continues for each player. But for some reason the "do you wanna continue?" screen and countdown is missing. A bit hard pressing "continue player 1" in less than zero seconds isnt it? But if you play the game as 2 player you suddenly realise that the continues ARE in there (2-3 for each player) but you can only "continue" if the other player is alive.
So instead of having a fun time playing alone or with a friend (guess what happens if you both loose your last life at the same time) you spend way to much time keeping an eye on your lives because you are worried about hitting the continue buttons on time (key 1 and 2 for player 1 and 2).
Fix: would it really have been so hard to have a 10 second delay so that you could continue like in any other game? What is the whole idea of having continues in a game if you dont give people the option to use them, lol?
-The reset button: Having a "reset back to menu"-button isnt a bad thing really of cause. Some games have them and some dont. Placing the "reset"- key badly is not a good thing tho. Anyways picture this: You have been playing for a good 45 mins with a friend and suddenly your friend yells "NOW" .. in a quick snake-bite like move your left hand strikes out at the "1" key to get some continues .. but instead you get the main menu in your face. Odd as you was no where near the Esc key, but perhaps the "1" key slightly grazed the Esc key when pressed? Or perhaps the "2" key grazed the "1" who grazed the "Esc"? Seriously this must have happened a good 25+ time at least.
Fix: wouldnt had taken many bytes to make a "quit? then press Y" check before exiting, and so save a LOT of player some misery.
-Speed: the game starts slow but later gets really really fast. So first lvls of the game are pretty much WAY to slow where you sit around waiting for the bonus items, and the later lvls you get owned because the baddies moved at 5x speed and killed you before you got anywhere.
Fix: wouldnt had been that hard to have a speed option in the menu really. Currently the last 20 lvls or so arnt fun to play as you barely got time to think. Most of the earlier lvls you have a good time jumping around picking up stuff and take advantage of the stage layout, but later its kill or be killed and that kinda spoils those lvl i think.
Arkanoid: Where are those continues? Game is great with nice audio and lovely graphics .. but has anyone managed to get past lvl 3 on just the few lives you got? Sure getting past lvl 3 is possible .. like every 50th time you play, lol. This game must have a good 25-27 lvl that no one has ever seen unless they cheat their ass off.
Fix: a good 3-5 continues and the game really would have a great game i guess.
Sadly there is really no reason to fix those terrible mistakes today, as you can just load a inf lives poke and see the whole game. But had there been a fix back in the day, im sure a good 10.000 players would have been much happier.
Heheh I loved your BB report :D
As fas as Arkanoid goes, come on! It wasn't that bad! I seem to remember going quite far in it...
But, since you mentioned it, Krakout was an example of how game customization should be done...
Heh, yes, the quit button right next to the start buttons... obviously not enough testing of 2 player games there :)
As for continues, that exactly matches the arcade version. No continue timer there, either.
Now, I am no fan of Arkanoid, or any other Breakout-style game, but I did love Krakout. It was actually fun to play. :) Why oh why did Taito make level 3 of Arkanoid so damn annoying?
Quote from: Gryzor on 15:02, 05 January 10
As fas as Arkanoid goes, come on! It wasn't that bad! I seem to remember going quite far in it...
Well, i was saved a month or 2 after getting the game, as a nice AA poke showed up and allowed me to get past lvl 3 without to much pain and get further into the game. The game really plays nice and had there been some continues, it would have been "great" instread of just "nice".
Arkanoid 2 however got around the "bad lvl" problem as you could just choose another lvl. Oh i played that a lot :)
Hey guys - all this talk is very exciting stuff indeed! And I think there'll be a huuuuge range of opinions on what game to do next!
All I would suggest is coming to a consensus on a very popular game (like a famous arcade game converted) that would get noticed and be worthwhile for all the time and effort invested. For example, I don't think there would be much interest from people in Saboteur being improved. For all the work that would have to go into this, it would be nice to get some recognition - for example from Retro Gamer magazine who I'm sure Jason would cover this and introduce the improvement and work to a much wider audience. I've already emailed him about the Rick Dangerous update :)
I'll have a think about 'my list' of games I'd love to see improved :)
I have one question about music ....
Specifically games that lack in game music.
How hard would it be to insert music?
For example Paperboy is completely missing of all sfx and music, as the programmer said all 64k was entirely consumed. Surely with another 64k there'd be plenty of room to add this in making it a 128k release :)
The one thing I could do, that I was good at years ago, is make music. By the time I got rolling with machine code and beginning to understand the workings of the CPC it was time for me to move on to PC's and C++ so there ended my games programming for the Amstrad :( But I was making some good music before that, I think using SoundTrakker and BooTracker that came with an Amstrad Action covertape.
So...... say I made some music for Paperboy that was like the arcade original, maybe a quick job in BooTracker, how easy would that be to implement in the game? Would doing so impact on the CPU and slow the game down making this pointless?
Quote from: Xyphoe on 17:19, 09 January 10So...... say I made some music for Paperboy that was like the arcade original, maybe a quick job in BooTracker, how easy would that be to implement in the game? Would doing so impact on the CPU and slow the game down making this pointless?
If you are able to generate YM/PT2/PT3/AY mod , we could convert it to AYC and use the madram AYC player that has a very little CPU impact (i used it for RD128+).A little patch on loader and on interrupt routine service should make the trick ;D
Quote from: fano on 18:00, 09 January 10
If you are able to generate YM/PT2/PT3/AY mod , we could convert it to AYC and use the madram AYC player that has a very little CPU impact (i used it for RD128+).A little patch on loader and on interrupt routine service should make the trick ;D
Yikes! "generate YM/PT2/PT3/AY mod" - can you elaborate? Maybe methods of doing this are more advanced than I'm used to, in the past I remember using BooTracker a lot which would save the song as a ".mus" file which was just a big chunk of data which you'd load into the memory and then just call it, worked ok with the BASIC games I was making.
Paperboy seems actually the ideal candidate for a quick a simple Add-on.
It just needs some sounds FX and music as the game was perhaps the best 8 bit computer port.
Also I used to play it a lot. :D
Quote from: Xyphoe on 18:24, 09 January 10
Yikes! "generate YM/PT2/PT3/AY mod" - can you elaborate? Maybe methods of doing this are more advanced than I'm used to, in the past I remember using BooTracker a lot which would save the song as a ".mus" file which was just a big chunk of data which you'd load into the memory and then just call it, worked ok with the BASIC games I was making.
I was speaking about theses formats because they are easy to convert them to AYC as AYC player impact on CPU is very low.
Where i can find BooTracker and compiled modules for it ?
Are they relocatable ? or where are they loaded in memory ?
Quote from: fano on 19:23, 09 January 10
I was speaking about theses formats because they are easy to convert them to AYC as AYC player impact on CPU is very low.
Where i can find BooTracker and compiled modules for it ?
Are they relocatable ? or where are they loaded in memory ?
Hi - which tracking software on the CPC saves your compositions as these formats such as AYC?
"Are they relocatable ? or where are they loaded in memory ?"
I believe you should be able to load them into any part of the memory.
Quote from: Xyphoe on 20:11, 09 January 10
Hi - which tracking software on the CPC saves your compositions as these formats such as AYC?
Anyone a long you can rip AY output lol
Anyway , i looked quickly the paperboy code.If you make the music , i'll add it to game in extra bank ;)
Use the tool you want, i may have a little preference for starkos as the code source of the player is avaible.
Quote from: fano on 20:25, 09 January 10
Anyone a long you can rip AY output lol
Anyway , i looked quickly the paperboy code.If you make the music , i'll add it to game in extra bank ;)
Use the tool you want, i may have a little preference for starkos as the code source of the player is avaible.
OK I'll take a look at Starkos and see what it's like to get on with. I'll probably have to build my 'instruments' from scratch unless there's some where I can get some pre-made tones and envelopes for things.
Is Starkos the tracker of choice for people? Are there better ones or what are the best? Mostly though - what makes it easier for you and other programmers ... if it's Starkos I'll start working my way through it.
Btw found the Paperboy arcade in game music here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5byxOWx9SV8
Made a quick hack with Atari ST Music ;D
Your first 2010 release, well done, you took every one by surprise buttsecks...
Is it Old or Plus ?
Ok, I tryed it, it seems it bug a bit at the end of the level, when you have the result (suscribers, houses delivered...)
The texte is screwed and un-readable...
Is it normal or just because of winape ?
BTW a bit of music is better.
I said, it is just a quick hack and i didn't take time to test it fully ;)
I rewrotte a bit the interrupt handler so i think this problem is normal.
It is for CPC old w/ extra mem as it uses only the first 16K bank.I am waiting to have xyphoes music to finalize this.
Hey! I'm at work and can't play it, but what's new in it?????
I think Paperboy was a great little game, I always loved the CPC port. But I feel that it needs more than just music to make a new release worth it... no?
Quote from: Gryzor on 12:52, 18 January 10
Hey! I'm at work and can't play it, but what's new in it?????
I added Atari ST music.This is weird , real CPC or emulator ? (i tested it on my 6128+ and Winape)
It works great, good work! It really lifts the game, and the ST music sound suitably 8-bit-y. Now if only some clever bod could stick a couple of sound effects in there...
Ah, I just tried it. Great, indeed, - goes to prove how lazy the programmers were... congrats!
And, as Freak said, if anyone could add sfx it'd be fantastic, though it's an entirely different beast.
I wonder if we could use some better tunes :)
That was just a quick test , i am waiting for xyphoe music to add in ;)
For sfx , if you someone want to add them , i have already too much stuff to do for CPC/+ ;D
(i need 72hours day to do everything i want !)
Can someone please make my day and add music to Outrun whilst playing the game? Please... please... please
Quote from: ukmarkh on 20:47, 18 January 10
Can someone please make my day and add music to Outrun whilst playing the game? Please... please... please
If you want music, then stick the cassette that comes with the game into your hi-fi and press the PLAY button! ;D
Charming :-[
You think MUSIC will improve the CPC Outrun experience? :o
At least the music could be good :)
That was my thinking... as aweful as the game is, from time to time I still play it as it does hold a challange. Its a crying shame that the CPC was never given the conversion of Outrun it deserved. It could have easily done an amazing 8-bit version.
To this day I still don't understand Outrun. I played the original arcade version with MAME some weeks ago, and nomatter how hard I try and never crash, I'm just game over all the sudden. Clearly I must be missing something, but what??
How do you mean you never crash? Are you saying it's too easy or too hard?? I think you mean the latter. The problem with Mame is that the controls aren't setup for racing games, unless you use a steering wheel, anything else and it'll end in tears. Wec-le mans is the same on Mame, the controls are all over the place. But I'm sure some bright spark has already come up with something, and I think you can buy a wheel pre set-up that'll work with these games. Outside of Mame though, the Sega Saturn plays the most accurate version of Outrun, and is actually faster than the arcade if you turn on the 60fps mode.
Nearly forgot, make sure you change gears.
I do change gears. It just seems like it's an impossible mission to reach each goal in time.
I would think I should be able to reach the goal (and get more time) since I don't crash, but no.
And that's what I don't understand.
Try the CPC version and see how you get on... accelerate upto 160kph and then change gear, don't brake for the corners, instead change down a gear and then back up once a corner is cleared. Most corners can be taken at full speed, but there are quite a few where you have to drop a gear. The mistake some people make playing Outrun is they rely much heavily on the brakes, big mistake.
Quote from: ukmarkh on 01:06, 19 January 10
Charming :-[
I really didn't intend to cause offence with my comment, though in hindsight, I now realise it can easily be interpreted wrongly. Please accept my apologies.
I think the silence in
Outrun was intentional and the developers really did insist that the player used the audio cassette in order to hear in-game music.
No offence taken... I was just foolin around.
Outrun on the Speccy and C64 both included in-game music and music included on a tape, so not sure about that.
I was never a big car-race games fan.
I think this is not the best an 8 bit computer can offer.
Of course it also because there is not a lot of blowing and shooting peoples involved.
Yet I must admit I was a fond player of Lotus turbo Esprit challenge and Wec le Man.
(Mode1 car race games)
Lotus had a far too little screen which spoil it, but Wec le Mans was great yet.
Also Crazy car, buggy boy and Crazy cars 2 were not that bad graphically.
It seems that no modern CPC game is a car game.
Why ?
It must be hard to make properly.
Bunrin rubber mods would be great.
Apparently, the Burnin rubber engine is the same one used for Chase HQ 2 on the GX4000???
Quote from: MacDeath on 09:51, 20 January 10
I was never a big car-race games fan.
Me neither, and I always thought Burnin Rubber was an odd choice to bundle with the Plus range (but it looked pretty so maybe that's why?).
You forgot about Continental Circus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prLKrpG06gY) - that was fast and good fun.
Can sombody please turn on the main title music in Afterburner on the CPC, so that it plays in the main game? This would be excellent and the music is already there... it also plays on the end screen and hi score table.
Quote from: mr_lou on 17:22, 19 January 10
I do change gears. It just seems like it's an impossible mission to reach each goal in time.
I would think I should be able to reach the goal (and get more time) since I don't crash, but no.
And that's what I don't understand.
Well, you may not be crashing but you're clearly driving far too cautiously (slowly). Arcade Outrun rewards (nay, DEMANDS) brave and skillful driving.
You could always hit the TAB button once the game's loaded and change the dip switch settings to easy. On easy I finish the game regularly. On normal I've completed it a couple of times and usually reach the third or fourth stage.
As to the controls, I use a 360 pad - which has analogue sticks - and have no control issues whatsoever.
I don't know the technical difficulty, or even if it's patching, but I always wanted an english translation to Iron Lord.
I would drool over the AA screenshots and was disappointed when an english version didn't appear. If memory is correct I think Turbosoft in the UK was looking at doing/selling an english version.
Me and my wife have played Iron Lord through till the end... fantastic game. My wife speaks French, and although we both really enjoyed the game, it was equally frustrating. The upshot of all this was that we fully wrote down the French sentences, and my wife converted them into English for me. 8)
Iron Lord.
I didn't played at it but readed tests in magazines.
Another great greatness from UbiSoft.
Funny :
Britons made lame Speccy ports.
UbiSoft made Atari ST ports/cross dev.
Many Ubi soft games despite being Mode 1 are in fact Atari ST games put from 16 colours to 4 but with the same graphics.
Just like the CGA-EGA games on PC.
Atari ST was very popular in France.
As it was quite close to Amstrad CPC in many ways so coders/programmers would prefer it most of time.
Amiga was for gamers only, Atari was a serious bizness...sort of.
Other exemples of Mode1 Atari ST games on CPC :
Back to golden Age.
Night Hunter (great game on Atari ST...)
Skate Ball
Twinworld.
Also many games did feature a 16 bit flavour or sweet mode0 :
Pick n' Pile (would be great with a mouse)
Inertie
Gabrielle (sort of Antiriad, with more boobs...)
Defender of the crown (from cinemaware game)
B.A.T
Conspiration de l'an III
Asphalt
And a lot of Adventure or RPG games in Mode1 too.
a rarity on Amstrad.
Zombi (first game from Ubisoft, was later ported on other machines but the first was on CPC)
Hurlement (zombi 2)
Fer & flammes (Iron and flames)
l'Anneau de Zengara (Fer & flammes 2)
L'ile
La chose de Grotembourg
Le Maitre des Ames
Le maitre absolu (maitre des ames 2)
And many others.
The problem : all those RPG/adventure were text heavy and were probably not translated.
Just check the CPCpower site, chose from editor : Ubisoft list...
And get a look at all those pictures.
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=staff&lenom=UBI%20Soft
So many of their games were so grim dark gritty and violent looking.
On the other Hand, Infogrames (now Atari...lol) was well known for the lot of games adapted from French/belgium comics.
None of them being speccy ported too (well, perhaps ?)
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=staff&lenom=Infogrames
Perhaps I should do a special page on french games in the wiki...
A "French connection" article would be great!
Aside from that, Iron Lord looks fantastic, but although I speak French I never played it to any serious extend... But the point of MacDeath about those 'ports' is very interesting - and thanks for the titles, they will make up for a chunk of my weekend!
PS Mate, sorry about yesterday, I only saw your IM msg this morning; my home PC is always on and connected...
PS2 Speaking of RPGs, reading the latest Retro Gamer made me remember Heroes of the Lance. I never got anywhere with this title (I hadn't acquired the proper RPG background when it came out), but damn it looked impressive...
Quote from: MacDeath on 01:36, 28 January 10
Many Ubi soft games despite being Mode 1 are in fact Atari ST games put from 16 colours to 4 but with the same graphics.
Atari ST was very popular in France.
As it was quite close to Amstrad CPC in many ways so coders/programmers would prefer it most of time.
If the Plus had been more popular then this would have been very interesting because instead of using MODE 1 they could have used MODE 0 and the extended colour set and ported Atari ST games that way...
I have been experimenting a little myself with converting Atari ST graphics to the Plus and it works very well usually.
Indeed. I remember reading somewhere, a few years back, that in many occasions, colors matter more than resolution. It was a revelation, reading that...
This is completely true.
Many colours allow antialiasing which soften the borders so the low resolution is not that important.
A PLUS picture (photo) put in Mode0 with 16 shades of grey looks quite reel indeed.
This explain the popularity of PC as a gaming machine when the VGA became standard.
The MCGA mode was 320x200 x256colours (no attributes of course).
The 320x200 was a mean to use less Video Ram, and to get partial graphical compatibility with CGA and or EGA graphics.
the advantage of Plus is the 4096 palette.
On the old, you have a limited choice of colours to make Antialiasings so it wasn't well used.
On a Plus you may always find a proper colours to antialase so use it.
And the Extra colours from Hard Sprites may help too.
Having you modern pc in 5433330x56987421 resolution is useless indeed.
I wish the CPC could get a more flexible pixels coding...
A 32Ko mode with double bits would have been awesome on Plus.
Enabling a Mode0 with 256 colours...if only the ink management would allow this too.
Or simply the good old 320x200x16 colours as on Atari ST...sweet enough.
Look at Jim Powers game.
A typical Atari ST port on Amstrad CPC.
The advantage in porting from ST :
--compatibility in resolutions : any 320x200x16 may be turned into 320x200x4 with a simple graphic application. This would have been done nicely with a EGA PC too...as most 320x200x16 graphics (EGA in extended CGA mode in fact) could easily turned into CGA (mode 1 on CPC...actually, yet often with more limitations in inks/palette)
--GUI : Atari ST was great in GUI, really.
--Sound compatibility : totally.
--Compression capability : "powerfull" 16bit machine allowed this as faster an a lot of Ram.
--Even puting in mode 0 wasn't such a big deal, more retouch yet, but you could do it while doing the ST graphics.
On the other Hand a speccy port offer petty advantages.
--You work on 8 bit machines : no GUI, no Hard Disc drive, and so on...
--You can't properly enhance graphics to CPC standard in fact.
--Your ZX Speccy code can't go well on a CPC with heavier Video so you can't really optimise it.
--as many Speccy technics to get rid of Colour clashes such as unmasked sprites, lack of backgrounds, or 1 color games...are simply disgusting when put on a CPC...this does not even make the game faster, just shittier.
The more proper way would have be to indeed port CPC games to speccy IMO.
Seriously, how can someone pretend to be a speccy graphist ? :o
But to be fair, there weren't that many speccy ports.
Many of them were more Crossdev in fact.
The problem comes from the fact that most of the awfull ones were actually Arcade games, or simply great hits of their time (Milestones in gaming).
Enduro Racer, R-Type, Black Tiger, Strider, PacMania, Midnight resistance, Shadow of the beast, Saboteur, the last ninja 2, pit fighter, street fighter, Double Dragon 3.
Most of those were actually great games in original version.
Also lots of Movie Franchises too :
Indiana Jones 3, Big trouble in little china, Star wars, Red Heat...
And so on.
Those were games that count !
How about patching Wonderboy to make it scroll smoother, and go faster.