R-Type X CPC

[TFM]

... let's go on here now... ...

There is the idea of making a game similar to R-Type, but specifically adapted to the strenght of the CPC (f.e. fast scrolling, overscan, Mode 0 with beautifil colors...).

At the moment - I guess - we all have other projects, we're currently working on.

However, if you are interrested, then we can already start to collect ideas here. How it shall look like and which techniques we can use ...

I definitely would have interrest in such a project, and if some of us work together, we can do it in an acceptable time. And... if would be a real international scene project :-)

What's your oppinion?

[MacDeath]

fast scrolling, overscan, Mode 0 with beautifil colors...

All at the same time ?

Are you sure we are talking about the same computer

Also just get a look at R-Type II videos on youtube and you'll know that R-Type is not a Fast scroller, but a smooth scroller...




Well, if it is to make a CPC port of R-Type II...

the original arcade game has a lot of special effects.

Perhaps not easy to actually port on a 8 bit machine.

But just getting the level design and graphics and gameplay, minus all special effect, why not.

The main questions are :

==R-Type 2 ? Raiden is a sweet vertical Shooter from the good old time, and I think a vertical shooter may be sweet too.

==Designed to run on which amstrad ?

The range is simple :
-464/664 (shitty shit, oops)
-6128 (it gets better)
-GX4000 (or 464+...well why not if intended to be on ROM/cartridge...)
-6128+ (Bingo! that of course the most powerfull Amstrad 8 bit format available)


==What would reasonably be realistic for a CPC

From what I've been told, the Mode 0 is derogatory obviously.

--screen dimension. 320x200 equivalent ? or perhaps a 256x256/256x240 ?

IMO 256x240 would be neat.
Just too bad it's not a vertical shooter.

--Sprite sizes.
the speccy port R-Type vessel is 8x24...but a 16x24 would be better actually... and if it is to be done with a kind of extended vertical (=more than 192 pix) we may then get a better vertical design.

--Rasters or not ?
many speccy ports managed to put 1 raster...
Of course we know mode0 does need them less, but it may be even more ambitious with a few...

--Sounds : in-game music is a classic debate in the CPCworld.
From what I think, it takes a lot of place and with "only" 3 channels, the AY is not that easy to work with sweet sound FX AND awesome music...


I know that an Atari ST version was done, let's just see at his one to know what we'll have to remove from the arcade version...

But dear TFM/FS... if you have an engine, I would be pleased to graph something for you.
Just tell me your specifications...

Atari ST version (no sound as it seems...)


[youtube=FtF-_lOOZWY][/youtube]


And just to cry a bit more, the arcade version...waow...


[youtube=4qyQu3zz18M][/youtube]



[youtube=7fQ2KzJuoMU][/youtube]

[fano]

I am not crying  (runs mame to play R-TYPE II !)
As i said R-TYPE II is one of my prefered , there is a NEO-GEO version i call R-TYPE II+1 as it applies IREM holy principle : Last Resort.
The weapon system is very interesting as it offers only one module but it is used as a "charge" and can be moved around player.Look at this three levels (bosses are terrible too)
[youtube=X28UxpMfPAY][/youtube]

TFM , what do you mean about fast scrolling , byte ?
It is interesting as i am working on my own schmup project , Project Wildfire , but for 6128+.I do have some tricks that can be used for a classical CPC.
I suppose you would like to devellop it for at least a 128K machine with first 64K dedicaced to screen with double buffering.

[viddi]

I think the new R-Type version by fano and MacDeath is all we need.
And there still is WildFire for the plus machines...and it´s an original title!

So, R-Type II for the standard CPC? No way!
And for the PLUS? Well, maybe...but I prefer WildFire.

[ukmarkh]

R-Type II would probably need porting from the ST, Richard Aplin did this with his Double Dragon ports, so it may be possible on a Plus machine. I noticed the ST uses the same starfield effect in the background as the first game.   

I'd still like to see an improved version of the original R-Type, especially a Plus version. But guys, an update of the original R-Type should work on both the Plus models (extras goodness) and CPC original?

For instance:

Gold (6128 PLUS /GX4000, extra graphics, features and bomb the bass music)
Silver (CPC 6128 128k, pushing the limits of the 6128)
Bronze (CPC 464 64K, at least something that gives the same playability, probably without music)

Now this is just probably wishful thinking, but I'd love to see a vertical shoot-em-up take on R-Type, as someone   mentioned earlier.

[Gryzor]

I've always been in favor of enhanced versions. Yes, not everyone has a Plus, but everyone has an emulator. I find it sad not to use the extra abilities...

[GFXOR]

You won't make me play a game more than 1 minute on emulator... that's why I am looking for all the original computer who are interesting to me. I even never lauched a ST or Amiga emulator, and Vice is just used to verify why my 5'1/4 copies don't work...

According to me, emulators are a good way for the developpment.

But if you like the Plus, you don't need to think about how many coputers are still used... just do the game you want !

[mr_lou]

everyone has an emulator.

That might be true, but not everyone is satisfied with emulator-quality.

Like GFXOR, I'm also spending max 1 minute with a game in an emulator, and that's only in cases where I'm too lazy to write the DSK file to a real disc and go to my real CPC to try it out.
I'm using my real CPC 99% of the time. I only use an emulator shortly when I need to check a game out fast, in order to find out if it's something I'll bother playing on my real CPC.

[MacDeath]

Still with the R-Type flavoured games : BioHazard Battle.

I have it on my SegaMegaDrive, it's an arcade port (but i don't the arcade was released in France, never seen it...)

It's dawn pretty good too.




[youtube=DMg9geNyP3A][/youtube]



[youtube=huf_vqkyVak][/youtube]


Perhaps a lot of good ideas to borrow from this one.

[redbox]

It all sounds interesting, but the summer is coming...

So I am just going to play Star Sabre instead (and it comes in 64k and 128k flavours) 

[mahlemiut]

I don't know if there's a "real" arcade version of Biohazard Battle, the only one I know of is a Sega Megaplay version which runs slightly modified versions of Megadrive games, so technically it's possibly not an arcade port.

[Gryzor]

@GFXOR, m_lou: it's not that I don't agree with that point, but it's kind of elitist. How many users do you think have a CPC at the ready to play the new games on? I mean, I have bought all the new games that have come out lately on physical media, but I don't have a functional setup in my house...

[mr_lou]

I don't have a functional setup in my house...

Choices and sacrifices my friend. Choices and sacrifices.
You can choose to sacrifice your beloved C64/Amiga-space, and set up your CPC there instead. 

Why would anyone not have a functional CPC setup in their house? That's like a house without a kitchen. A kitchen without a refrigerator! A refrigerator without food!!! Aaarrghhh!!!!

How can you live like that Gryzor?!

[Gryzor]

I'll tell you how: I chose a girlfriend over live retro setups. That's how.

[viddi]

I'll tell you how: I chose a girlfriend over live retro setups. That's how.

Really?! 


Real-life nerd! 

[mr_lou]

I'll tell you how: I chose a girlfriend over live retro setups. That's how.

One does not exclude the other. I have both. 

[Devilmarkus]

You should use the GF-emulator 3.1 (girlfriend emulator).
It can be turned off when not needed.

[fano]

Great feature ! can we customize this for the real hardware ? 

btw , i heard some countries , Brazil for e.g , own weirds versions of this hardware, that looks like original but does not act like   

[ukmarkh]

I'll tell you how: I chose a girlfriend over live retro setups. That's how.

Is she a Japanese sex robot?

[Gryzor]

Is she a Japanese sex robot?

No such luck, I'm afraid!

One does not exclude the other. I have both. 

Well, with cupboards brimming with retro goodness AND a full-sized sit-down arcade cabinet adorning our SOHO room I couldn't ask for much more

[robcfg]

You should use the GF-emulator 3.1 (girlfriend emulator).
It can be turned off when not needed.

You should definitively add that feature to JavaCPC Desktop XD

[TFM]

WoW!!!

Just missed to switch on the PC for a day... Thank's a lot to all here for the wonderful ideas!!! That's awesome great. Maybe we should discuss a bit more about "what we want". Then we can talk about who want's to contribute.
I'm sure that for example Fano will finish Wildfire first, and I will finish also some crap ;-)

So we all have enough time do discuss how the Game should look like and on which CPCs it shall run.

My idea is that we use definitely 128 KB RAM machines. I'm not sure if we should do it only for the Plus???

Think MODE 0 is ok for all of us. But yeah, good question, horizontal or vertical scrolling? Smooth and quick (bytewise) scrolling or pixel scrolling (can be done by using two screens).

I like overscan, but it makes everything much more complicated.

About Sound: Let's take that Arkos stuff - that's awesome and uses less cpu power.

I'm overwhelmed by the big interrest on this project. And that's the good thing about it. If we have a big team, then everyone of us has to do only few things, so we can release a big project after a relatively short time

[MacDeath]

I also got some sort of an idea...

I showed you Biohasard Battle on Sega.

I think such kind of game may be achieved re-using the Forgotten worlds engine perhaps.

--It's designed to get a good horizontal scrolling, but if i remember well some part are almost vertical (the giant...)

--It's a multidirectionnal shooter : you can aim at he 8 directions...which is quite rare for shooterz on CPC IMO...

--It's quite good : yep it slows a bit often (yet that's not too bad for a CPC), but it can manage quite a lot of stuff : lot of different enemies and type of fires/sqhootings...


Also we are actually having this kind of discussion at CPCrulez (in french)
http://cpcrulez.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3623&start=195

Hermol put a .dsk to download with some try of a scrolling with some R-Type2 tiles.



Back to topic : R-Type "X"... If R-Type dates from 1987, the other Arcade R-Types are from the early nineties, so I think it is quite big for a CPC.

As a result, only 128K Ram (6128 then) is reasonnable unless using the PLUS cartridge format...

[arnoldemu]

I'm overwhelmed by the big interrest on this project. And that's the good thing about it. If we have a big team, then everyone of us has to do only few things, so we can release a big project after a relatively short time

I would love to see a new shoot em up.. but as always I would expect things to take much longer than everybody thinks it will take.
So, if everyone understands this, and designs the game with the limits of the cpc.. then I am sure there will be a cracker of a game at the end.

Myself, I have other projects which need to be completed first, however if I can contribute with code examples, or code solutions I would be happy to help.

In terms of what the spec of cpc it should be aimed for....

well, I always try to make a 64k version of my games, even if this means it is "crippled" in some way (no sound, or only sfx, or less levels, or less gfx) and then make the 128k disc version the best.
I think 128k cpc would be good, because really we need more good cpc games to show it can be done on cpc.
But also it would be really nice to see the cpc+ pushed more in games...

[MacDeath]

The6128+ is really capable of producing a "16 bit feeling" the CPC can't thx to the 4096 palette, hardscrollings and so on.
Also the bits of graphics in small pixels yet +15 colours may do the polished finish a C64 or speccy can't.

The DMA channels actually don't add that much, but it's also a small thing in PLUS.

you just have to get a look at Navy seal, robocop 2 or Plotting to see what i mean by a 16 bit feeling.

While a CPC with multiloadings can manage well and the +64ko of the 6128 not adding that much, the 128K ram is more than needed in the Plus range as just putting a pair of sampled sounds or using well the hardwired sprites will surely use a lot of ram to stock them.

But other kind of games are cruelly missing on the Plus range : Platformers.

a Wonderboy II clone may be great IMO.