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... let's go on here now... ...

There is the idea of making a game similar to R-Type, but specifically adapted to the strenght of the CPC (f.e. fast scrolling, overscan, Mode 0 with beautifil colors...).

At the moment - I guess - we all have other projects, we're currently working on.

However, if you are interrested, then we can already start to collect ideas here. How it shall look like and which techniques we can use ...

I definitely would have interrest in such a project, and if some of us work together, we can do it in an acceptable time. And... if would be a real international scene project :-)

What's your oppinion?

Quotefast scrolling, overscan, Mode 0 with beautifil colors...

:o
All at the same time ?

Are you sure we are talking about the same computer ???

Also just get a look at R-Type II videos on youtube and you'll know that R-Type is not a Fast scroller, but a smooth scroller...




Well, if it is to make a CPC port of R-Type II...

the original arcade game has a lot of special effects.

Perhaps not easy to actually port on a 8 bit machine.

But just getting the level design and graphics and gameplay, minus all special effect, why not.

The main questions are :

==R-Type 2 ? Raiden is a sweet vertical Shooter from the good old time, and I think a vertical shooter may be sweet too.

==Designed to run on which amstrad ?

The range is simple :
-464/664 (shitty shit, oops)
-6128 (it gets better)
-GX4000 (or 464+...well why not if intended to be on ROM/cartridge...)
-6128+ (Bingo! that of course the most powerfull Amstrad 8 bit format available)


==What would reasonably be realistic for a CPC ???

From what I've been told, the Mode 0 is derogatory obviously.

--screen dimension. 320x200 equivalent ? or perhaps a 256x256/256x240 ?

IMO 256x240 would be neat.
Just too bad it's not a vertical shooter.

--Sprite sizes.
the speccy port R-Type vessel is 8x24...but a 16x24 would be better actually... and if it is to be done with a kind of extended vertical (=more than 192 pix) we may then get a better vertical design.

--Rasters or not ?
many speccy ports managed to put 1 raster...
Of course we know mode0 does need them less, but it may be even more ambitious with a few...

--Sounds : in-game music is a classic debate in the CPCworld.
From what I think, it takes a lot of place and with "only" 3 channels, the AY is not that easy to work with sweet sound FX AND awesome music...


I know that an Atari ST version was done, let's just see at his one to know what we'll have to remove from the arcade version...

But dear TFM/FS... if you have an engine, I would be pleased to graph something for you.
Just tell me your specifications...

Atari ST version (no sound as it seems...)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtF-_lOOZWY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtF-_lOOZWY)

[youtube=FtF-_lOOZWY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtF-_lOOZWY[/youtube]


And just to cry a bit more, the arcade version...waow...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qyQu3zz18M

[youtube=4qyQu3zz18M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qyQu3zz18M[/youtube]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fQ2KzJuoMU

[youtube=7fQ2KzJuoMU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fQ2KzJuoMU[/youtube]


8) :P ::) :'(

I am not crying  :-* (runs mame to play R-TYPE II !)
As i said R-TYPE II is one of my prefered , there is a NEO-GEO version i call R-TYPE II+1 as it applies IREM holy principle : Last Resort.
The weapon system is very interesting as it offers only one module but it is used as a "charge" and can be moved around player.Look at this three levels (bosses are terrible too)
[youtube=X28UxpMfPAY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X28UxpMfPAY[/youtube]

TFM , what do you mean about fast scrolling , byte ?
It is interesting as i am working on my own schmup project , Project Wildfire , but for 6128+.I do have some tricks that can be used for a classical CPC.
I suppose you would like to devellop it for at least a 128K machine with first 64K dedicaced to screen with double buffering.

I think the new R-Type version by fano and MacDeath is all we need.
And there still is WildFire for the plus machines...and it´s an original title!

So, R-Type II for the standard CPC? No way!
And for the PLUS? Well, maybe...but I prefer WildFire.

R-Type II would probably need porting from the ST, Richard Aplin did this with his Double Dragon ports, so it may be possible on a Plus machine. I noticed the ST uses the same starfield effect in the background as the first game.   

I'd still like to see an improved version of the original R-Type, especially a Plus version. But guys, an update of the original R-Type should work on both the Plus models (extras goodness) and CPC original?

For instance:

Gold (6128 PLUS /GX4000, extra graphics, features and bomb the bass music)
Silver (CPC 6128 128k, pushing the limits of the 6128)
Bronze (CPC 464 64K, at least something that gives the same playability, probably without music)

Now this is just probably wishful thinking, but I'd love to see a vertical shoot-em-up take on R-Type, as someone   mentioned earlier.

I've always been in favor of enhanced versions. Yes, not everyone has a Plus, but everyone has an emulator. I find it sad not to use the extra abilities...

You won't make me play a game more than 1 minute on emulator... that's why I am looking for all the original computer who are interesting to me. I even never lauched a ST or Amiga emulator, and Vice is just used to verify why my 5'1/4 copies don't work...

According to me, emulators are a good way for the developpment.

But if you like the Plus, you don't need to think about how many coputers are still used... just do the game you want !

Quote from: Gryzor on 10:49, 24 April 10
everyone has an emulator.

That might be true, but not everyone is satisfied with emulator-quality.

Like GFXOR, I'm also spending max 1 minute with a game in an emulator, and that's only in cases where I'm too lazy to write the DSK file to a real disc and go to my real CPC to try it out.
I'm using my real CPC 99% of the time. I only use an emulator shortly when I need to check a game out fast, in order to find out if it's something I'll bother playing on my real CPC.

Still with the R-Type flavoured games : BioHazard Battle.

I have it on my SegaMegaDrive, it's an arcade port (but i don't the arcade was released in France, never seen it...)

It's dawn pretty good too.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMg9geNyP3A
[youtube=DMg9geNyP3A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMg9geNyP3A[/youtube]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huf_vqkyVak
[youtube=huf_vqkyVak]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huf_vqkyVak[/youtube]


Perhaps a lot of good ideas to borrow from this one.

It all sounds interesting, but the summer is coming...

So I am just going to play Star Sabre instead (and it comes in 64k and 128k flavours)  ;)

I don't know if there's a "real" arcade version of Biohazard Battle, the only one I know of is a Sega Megaplay version which runs slightly modified versions of Megadrive games, so technically it's possibly not an arcade port.

@GFXOR, m_lou: it's not that I don't agree with that point, but it's kind of elitist. How many users do you think have a CPC at the ready to play the new games on? I mean, I have bought all the new games that have come out lately on physical media, but I don't have a functional setup in my house...

Quote from: Gryzor on 07:56, 25 April 10I don't have a functional setup in my house...

Choices and sacrifices my friend. Choices and sacrifices.
You can choose to sacrifice your beloved C64/Amiga-space, and set up your CPC there instead.  :D

Why would anyone not have a functional CPC setup in their house? That's like a house without a kitchen. A kitchen without a refrigerator! A refrigerator without food!!! Aaarrghhh!!!!

How can you live like that Gryzor?!

I'll tell you how: I chose a girlfriend over live retro setups. That's how.

Quote from: Gryzor on 15:58, 25 April 10
I'll tell you how: I chose a girlfriend over live retro setups. That's how.

Really?!  ???


Real-life nerd!  ;D

Quote from: Gryzor on 15:58, 25 April 10
I'll tell you how: I chose a girlfriend over live retro setups. That's how.

One does not exclude the other. I have both.  8)

You should use the GF-emulator 3.1 (girlfriend emulator).
It can be turned off when not needed.

Great feature ! can we customize this for the real hardware ?  :P

btw , i heard some countries , Brazil for e.g , own weirds versions of this hardware, that looks like original but does not act like   ???

Quote from: Gryzor on 15:58, 25 April 10
I'll tell you how: I chose a girlfriend over live retro setups. That's how.

Is she a Japanese sex robot?

Quote from: ukmarkh on 18:46, 25 April 10
Is she a Japanese sex robot?

No such luck, I'm afraid!

Quote from: mr_lou on 17:11, 25 April 10
One does not exclude the other. I have both.  8)

Well, with cupboards brimming with retro goodness AND a full-sized sit-down arcade cabinet adorning our SOHO room I couldn't ask for much more :)

Quote from: Devilmarkus on 17:45, 25 April 10
You should use the GF-emulator 3.1 (girlfriend emulator).
It can be turned off when not needed.

You should definitively add that feature to JavaCPC Desktop XD

WoW!!!

Just missed to switch on the PC for a day... Thank's a lot to all here for the wonderful ideas!!! That's awesome great. Maybe we should discuss a bit more about "what we want". Then we can talk about who want's to contribute.
I'm sure that for example Fano will finish Wildfire first, and I will finish also some crap ;-)

So we all have enough time do discuss how the Game should look like and on which CPCs it shall run.

My idea is that we use definitely 128 KB RAM machines. I'm not sure if we should do it only for the Plus???

Think MODE 0 is ok for all of us. But yeah, good question, horizontal or vertical scrolling? Smooth and quick (bytewise) scrolling or pixel scrolling (can be done by using two screens).

I like overscan, but it makes everything much more complicated.

About Sound: Let's take that Arkos stuff - that's awesome and uses less cpu power.

I'm overwhelmed by the big interrest on this project. And that's the good thing about it. If we have a big team, then everyone of us has to do only few things, so we can release a big project after a relatively short time :)

I also got some sort of an idea...

I showed you Biohasard Battle on Sega.

I think such kind of game may be achieved re-using the Forgotten worlds engine perhaps.

--It's designed to get a good horizontal scrolling, but if i remember well some part are almost vertical (the giant...)

--It's a multidirectionnal shooter : you can aim at he 8 directions...which is quite rare for shooterz on CPC IMO...

--It's quite good : yep it slows a bit often (yet that's not too bad for a CPC), but it can manage quite a lot of stuff : lot of different enemies and type of fires/sqhootings...


Also we are actually having this kind of discussion at CPCrulez (in french)
http://cpcrulez.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3623&start=195 (http://cpcrulez.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3623&start=195)

Hermol put a .dsk to download with some try of a scrolling with some R-Type2 tiles.



Back to topic : R-Type "X"... If R-Type dates from 1987, the other Arcade R-Types are from the early nineties, so I think it is quite big for a CPC.

As a result, only 128K Ram (6128 then) is reasonnable unless using the PLUS cartridge format...

Quote from: TFM/FS on 00:39, 26 April 10
I'm overwhelmed by the big interrest on this project. And that's the good thing about it. If we have a big team, then everyone of us has to do only few things, so we can release a big project after a relatively short time :)

I would love to see a new shoot em up.. but as always I would expect things to take much longer than everybody thinks it will take.
So, if everyone understands this, and designs the game with the limits of the cpc.. then I am sure there will be a cracker of a game at the end.

Myself, I have other projects which need to be completed first, however if I can contribute with code examples, or code solutions I would be happy to help.

In terms of what the spec of cpc it should be aimed for....

well, I always try to make a 64k version of my games, even if this means it is "crippled" in some way (no sound, or only sfx, or less levels, or less gfx) and then make the 128k disc version the best.
I think 128k cpc would be good, because really we need more good cpc games to show it can be done on cpc.
But also it would be really nice to see the cpc+ pushed more in games...

The6128+ is really capable of producing a "16 bit feeling" the CPC can't thx to the 4096 palette, hardscrollings and so on.
Also the bits of graphics in small pixels yet +15 colours may do the polished finish a C64 or speccy can't.

The DMA channels actually don't add that much, but it's also a small thing in PLUS.

you just have to get a look at Navy seal, robocop 2 or Plotting to see what i mean by a 16 bit feeling.

While a CPC with multiloadings can manage well and the +64ko of the 6128 not adding that much, the 128K ram is more than needed in the Plus range as just putting a pair of sampled sounds or using well the hardwired sprites will surely use a lot of ram to stock them.

But other kind of games are cruelly missing on the Plus range : Platformers.

a Wonderboy II clone may be great IMO.

Quote from: arnoldemu on 09:59, 26 April 10
I think 128k cpc would be good, because really we need more good cpc games to show it can be done on cpc.

YEAH!  :P :P :P :-* :-* :-*
We still have to prove what you can tickle out of the gorgeous Amstrad/Schneider CPC.
It´s still "History In The Making"!
In the beginning there were Speccy-Ports...
...the opera ain´t over until the fat CPC-Lady sings.  :) :) :)

@MacDeath: Thanks for the Biohazard link. It really looks quite interesting, and it's something different. Yes, Forgotten Worlds is quite good on CPC. However, I think we can do way better. Let's find out what the CPC can do :-)
I'm fine with both horizontal and vertical scrolling. The question is 4 ways or 8 ways. Using Overscan, 8 ways becomes consuming quite a lot of cpu time, but it's still possible.
If we use the Plus, this will be another world. Commercial Plus Games (up to now) only use few features of this wonderful machine. I would like a Plus version, but I'm a bit scared, that only few people have one. Hmm...

@Arnoldemu: Yes, things will take a long time :-) But hey, it's our hobby not our job. And if we can get a good team together and everybody does a part of it, in an well organized way – I think it really can work out. And since we all want to finish someting else first... there is enought time to plan that project well.

@Leonie: I agree totally :-) Are you good in making songs for the AY?

About the RAM, think 128 KB will be the minimum. We will use probably 32 KB screen RAM (even without overscan, but with pixel-scrolling or parallax scrolling f.e.). And today nearly everybody has a 6128.
After finishing IT, we still can downgrade it to 64 KB machines.

Perhaps to all who want to start gamremaking, I found this on the web ;
http://www.emunix.emich.edu/~evett/GameProgramming/ (http://www.emunix.emich.edu/%7Eevett/GameProgramming/)

there are PDF with a lot of interesting stuff to really know when dealing with gamemaking.

(http://www.emunix.emich.edu/~evett/ (http://www.emunix.emich.edu/%7Eevett/)) the guy seem to be teacher in a USA university... a lot of "courses" related to what we are dealing.


Concerning the sales with a commercial PLUS project, don't forget all the collectionners with GX4000... they are glad to pay 50€uros for anything, so... ;)
If we can find 1 component capable of emulating an ACID and housing 512Ko of Rom...why not then...


Yet I believe Amstrad screwed the PLUS range in that it wasn't released with a standard of 128Ko RAM...
so strange, after all even the Amstrad's speccy were all 128K... >:(

I hate those speccies!

QuoteI'm fine with   both horizontal and vertical scrolling. The question is 4 ways or 8   ways. Using Overscan, 8 ways becomes consuming quite a lot of cpu time,   but it's still possible.

Well, a Biohasard clone doesn't have to put really diagonnal scrolling,n just getting to horizontal and vertical may be enough...
the 8 direction I mentionned is mostly for the shooting system.

It just take a bit more sprites, but can be actually well managed.
Biohazard battle for exemple is simply a R-Type like vessel (1 sprite) and a sort of shield that you can direct.
Such shield doesn't have to get frames for each directions, but can be round sprite and just move around the main sprite, concerning the fires, well...it's also not that much a problem...

We just have to get inspired by such games/gameplay, not cloning in Arcade perfect, which a CPC or a PLUS would never achieve. 8)

And Forgotten world shown us a game on CPC can actually be a neat arcade port, with sweet graphics, nice scrolling, and a 2UP coin-op mode...

And only with a CPC464 ! So yes it can be done even better.

I would think there would be merit in a Plus version just because I think no-one has still quite nailed it with the ASIC yet.

I agree with MacDeath about the '16-bit' feeling - a few games have got close, like Pang, but not one has got there yet.  I want something to show my C64 friends which makes them cry  ;)

I think Star Sabre pretty much pushed the limits of a horizontal shoot-em-up on the classic CPC, so it would be niced to see what the Plus can really do.

But then again, not everyone has a Plus so the people working on the project might be reduced...?

I recently sold my copy of 'Copter' for the GX4000, over 750 people viewed my page, and I had 39 bids and 207 watchers. The GX4000 has a serious following. 

Quote from: redbox on 09:26, 27 April 10
I want something to show my C64 friends which makes them cry.

"Cry" is not enough!
We have to drive the C64-Freaks into suicide. (ideally all of them)
To achieve this aim we need more new High-Quality-State-Of-The-Art-Games for the CPC.


PS:
I´m dreaming of a new game with Rotovision (Mission Genocide).
A lot of people say: "The scrolling of Mission Genocide is fine, the game itself could be better"
So we need a new vertical shooter with Rotovision, improved graphics and gameplay.

Quote from: TFM/FS on 21:50, 26 April 10
@Leonie: Are you good in making songs for the AY?

I´m a musician who normally works with Midi-Sequencing, Synthesizers and Sampler.
I´ve done millions of Amiga-Mods too.
To write some music for the AY, I still need time to warm-up with Starkos, then I can deliver really good music.

...and? how much did it go for??

Quote from: Gryzor on 12:05, 27 April 10
...and? how much did it go for??

Can't remember, but do remember spunking the money up the wall  :'( 

Quote from: Leonie on 11:36, 27 April 10I´m a musician who normally works with Midi-Sequencing, Synthesizers and Sampler.
I´ve done millions of Amiga-Mods too.
To write some music for the AY, I still need time to warm-up with Starkos, then I can deliver really good music.

Cool! Another musician.  :)
What was/is your handle? Are your mods online at modarchive.com? Or where can I listen to some of your stuff?
Maybe you would be interested in throwing your music online at www.IndieGameMusic.com
I've put my old mods there + midi stuff and mp3 files, and makes a few euro every month that way.
Looking forward to hear some of your stuff, midi or mod or mp3 or sks.  8)

The problem when dealing with Amstra's AY sund : 3 channels is few.

And what Starlos did with Dead on time is good : using only 2 Channel so you still have a free one for the sound FX.

Also the AY is somewhat limited with its sounds textures compaired to an Amiga...yet I like its Bass sound.




But if you have already done some Midi, programming the tunes is like this.
I gave the new Starkos a try to see how it looks like, but I don't know how the instrument editor works...


As we know, many CPC games simply skipped the music because they were limited to 464 version.
But I think also because when the game slows down, the music too, which can really be anoying.

Yet perhaps getting some music running only sometimes, when dealing with a boss per exemple or as a jingle at the start and end of the level...
Also in between levels at cinematic sequence.

Concerning the PLUS collectionners : a ll the people I saw at Madrid did pocess at least 1 or 2.

But yeah the bulk are the possessors of GX4000 as it is a sought after console by console collectionners, who are more numerous than computers collectionners and would spend more money on genuine cartridges.

Yet I don't know what were the result of our research concerning the ACID emulation/cloning, but the Ideal (in the case of a Game cartridge that is to be sold) should be a 1 chip only solution, if this is possible.


are there some component enabling CPU capabilities AND having internal ROM like memory ?

What is the price to get a production of custom chip ?

Concerning the number of channels: I liked the games that used all three channels for music and interrupted the tune for sfx...

Quote from: Gryzor on 18:50, 27 April 10
Concerning the number of channels: I liked the games that used all three channels for music and interrupted the tune for sfx...

I like that method too, but it has to be done properly. I.e. interrupt the channel that's playing the notes that's least apparent.
For Dead on Time there are sound-effects all the time, so in this case it's fine to only use 2 channels for music. You'd hardly hear the 3rd channel anyway.  ;)

MacDeath: I agree, but about Forgotten Worlds, the only thing I dislike ist the not-smooth scrolling. Anything else is fine – even gorgeous!

Redbox: We have some ASIC experts here :-) Thrust me :-) So the Plus would be a good idea, but let's see what the majority of people thinks, who will finally really contribute to this project.

Leonie: Take your time to warm up, no need for a rush! But what we miss a bit IMHO is indeed somebody able to make tracks for games.

About ACID: If I remember right, it was cracked from somebody in the other ACID thread.

About Sound: Let's use options, Sound, FX, Sound & FX. IMHO all channels should be used for the Sound, the FX will be overlying. Hmm. Ok?

concerning sounds... a solution is of course to ask if players want music or not.

In this case it may even be possible to get alternative soundtracks/FX...

If I remember well, Head over Heels (perhaps one of the best 80's production on CPC...) featured a well done menu with ability to set the levels of number of sound effects/music jingles.

Exemple :

Music : Heavy, Lite, mute.
FX : Heavy, Lite, Mute.

The level chosen may per example set the number of channel you would use.


Heavy = 3
Normal = 2
Lite = 1
Mute = 0...something like this...

Just as in modern games where you can easily set the level of music or sound effects, or even tell if you want the cinematics or background sounds (in games like World of Warcraft...)


But it's just an idea put there, I don't know if it is difficult for a coder to achieve this.
Nor if we can gain some CPU ressource thx to this...

Also often, the sacrified channel is the drum part...
As was done in Dead on time.
It is a good way to use the fire sounds to provide the drum effect then, so the whole game may be in time with the beat of the song/tune per exemple...


BTW, if a coder has a working engine he shall tell us the specifications he wants (limitations) for gameplay and design...

Quote from: MacDeath on 06:32, 28 April 10
BTW, if a coder has a working engine he shall tell us the specifications he wants (limitations) for gameplay and design...

I've got a couple of games that will need some help. :)

Hi! The "R-Type X" sounds great!


Here are some ideas from me.


The 4:3 overscan looks a bit dated. Maybe you should consider a widescreen (16:9) format, a 384x216 (192x216 in mode 0 pixels) which would look much better for a horizontal shooter and maybe you could even preserve some memory that way.


Also I don't think you need a 4-way scrolling model for an r-type clone. Or at least not all the time. If you cleverly use the background and sprites, you have enough room. Plus, maybe you can have areas in which you can have a static background in half the screen and move only the bottom or top (like Feffesse did with Xyphoes Fantasy).


The big challenge would be the different weapons. I don't know how you could use the CPC Plus' range of sprites to reproduce effects for the various beams, explosions and so on, but the C64 version did a good job with these. I just know that the easiest part would be to have the huuuge end-of level bosses: remember Face Hugger's attempt on a Gryzor/Contra clone? The final boss of the demo stage was so huge and felt really true to an arcade!


Anyway, i'd love to contribute with graphics for a shooter, so you can count me in if you need help on that part  ;D

Yes, we will have a menue, and the player will be able to decide between Sound, FX and Sound_&_FX.
The idea with alternative soundtracks is great! They also can be selected by accident, so there is the element of surprise for the player.
Further this allows the differentiation between heavy, medium, light, muted sound levels (if selected in menue).
If we use Starkos it shouldn't take much cpu time. We should be very nice to Leonie now, then we get good music ;-)

About the overscan / screen format: Well, first we should decide IF we want to use overscan or not. Then we can decide which formats are well. The ideas from Rex are great, widescreen indeed would give an special touch.
However, with overscan the number of enemies will be limited, due to the fact, that it costs more cpu time to move sprites in an overscan screen than in an 16 KB screen. However some enemies may be only located in one of the 16 KB screen blocks, when using overscan. So we can gain some cpu time again.
The static background idea is indeed great, let's use it for the middle part of some levels, they can contain f.e. also a starfield or what ever, as long as most of it is static. Now we can see, 128 KB is minimum.

About the weapons... If we do it for the Plus, well, we have to use Hardware- & Software-Sprites anyway!

What do you think, is it time now for a poll, to decide:
- Plus or Old generation
- Overscan or not
- and and and... ;-)
- 3" disc or 3.5" disc with 0.7 MB format and a lot of levels

Or shall we collect some more ideas?

Quote from: TFM/FS on 17:11, 11 May 10
Yes, we will have a menue, and the player will be able to decide between Sound, FX and Sound_&_FX.
The idea with alternative soundtracks is great! They also can be selected by accident, so there is the element of surprise for the player.
Further this allows the differentiation between heavy, medium, light, muted sound levels (if selected in menue).
If we use Starkos it shouldn't take much cpu time. We should be very nice to Leonie now, then we get good music ;-)

About the overscan / screen format: Well, first we should decide IF we want to use overscan or not. Then we can decide which formats are well. The ideas from Rex are great, widescreen indeed would give an special touch.
However, with overscan the number of enemies will be limited, due to the fact, that it costs more cpu time to move sprites in an overscan screen than in an 16 KB screen. However some enemies may be only located in one of the 16 KB screen blocks, when using overscan. So we can gain some cpu time again.
The static background idea is indeed great, let's use it for the middle part of some levels, they can contain f.e. also a starfield or what ever, as long as most of it is static. Now we can see, 128 KB is minimum.

About the weapons... If we do it for the Plus, well, we have to use Hardware- & Software-Sprites anyway!

What do you think, is it time now for a poll, to decide:
- Plus or Old generation
- Overscan or not
- and and and... ;-)
- 3" disc or 3.5" disc with 0.7 MB format and a lot of levels

Or shall we collect some more ideas?

It has to be made for the Plus, but also downward compatible for the stock CPC? I was showing this random guy at a show the games on an Amstrad Plus, and he said well that's all well and good, but I bet the old CPC can't run that game... I loaded it up on the old CPC and he was amazed. So for bragging rights, it needs to work on the stock CPC's also.  8)   

Old generation!
Each new game for the classic CPC eliminates one speccy port of the past.
So we have to write a lot of new games for the classic CPC.
Please remember: We still have to prove the world what a powerful machine the CPC is.
"Star Sabre" is a wonderful example of what we can tickle out of this High-End-8-Bit-Machine, especially compared to the CPC-games (shooters) of the past.
And there is still potential to exploit.
Ok, an additional Plus Edition could be a nice idea too.

I think it's a plus that there exist an old generation version, but I'd like to see what a CPC+ is able to do.

Quote from: robcfg on 12:09, 12 May 10
I think it's a plus that there exist an old generation version, but I'd like to see what a CPC+ is able to do.

I don't think the Plus can do anything that the CPC can't do, apart from a bigger colour pallette. Anyone who's ever dabbled at programming a Plus game will tell you how ludicrous it is to implement hardware sprites.

Definitely a Plus version. Backwards compatibility would be nice, too, but it's time the Plus got some lovin'...

And, of course, 3" releases are always magical :)

Well, seems like we have no consense here in common. So it may become a CPC Plus and Old
Generation game, which runs from 3" and 3.5". Hmm... guess finally the programmers / graphicans / musicians will decide :-) However there are a lot of different wishes. Will be hard to get them under one hat.

Quote from: ukmarkh on 12:25, 12 May 10
I don't think the Plus can do anything that the CPC can't do, apart from a bigger colour pallette. Anyone who's ever dabbled at programming a Plus game will tell you how ludicrous it is to implement hardware sprites.

Well, I already did a lot with the Plus hardware sprites. And they are not bad. You can use them more quick and more efficient than software sprites. Also the resolution can be 640*200 with 15 colors + invicible - which is not bad for games.
The Plus offers a good variety of gaming enhancements, like programmable scan line interrupt, enhanced interrupt managing, soft-scrolling, sound-DMA (even when it is not easy to use it) and an analogue port, which makes it easier to move a space ship for example.
However I hear the arguments of CPC old generation too. So finally there will be two verisons, probably.

QuoteOk, an additional Plus Edition could be a nice idea too.

The problem is that most of modern CPC production fail to take account of the PLUS' existence.

QuoteI don't think the Plus can do anything that the CPC can't do, apart from   a bigger colour pallette. Anyone who's ever dabbled at programming a   Plus game will tell you how ludicrous it is to implement hardware   sprites.

I don't think the PLUS only offers a better palette.

Of course the HardSprite are somewhat frustrating : too little too late...
But they can still make a sweet addition, you just have to accept the fact that your game can't rely entirely on them.

But allthe extended interrupt capabilities, the DMA channels and upgraded hardwired scrollings are not only cosmétic additions...

The problem is that a PLUS needs to have 128K RAM, disk and/or Cartridge game to be properly used.
You simply cannot do a proper PLUS game if you rely only on the 464 config...

QuoteAlso the resolution can be 640*200 with 15 colors + invicible - which is   not bad for games.

errrr... you mean 16x16 per sprite with pixels ranging from pseudo mode0 to pseudo mode2 I guess ?

Quote
You can use them more quick and more efficient than software sprites.

once in memory slots (inside the asic) they are easy to move, yet sluggish to reload so a fully hardwired sprites game simply cannot properly animate those (multiple animation frames)

the 16x16 pixel is somewhat a limitation : to small for well sized sprites in High definition, or too big and not enough numerous for mundane shoots sprites...

I wish the Plus also had some simpler Hardsprites for this purpose...
I mean 8or16 additionnal sprites in 3colours+transparancy (mode1) with perhap less zoom effects but faster to load...

We could use those...lol.

Yes right! We shall consider the 6128 as minimum configuration. There's IMHO really no need to be 464 compatible.

With the sprites I agree. The hardware sprites are good for high-resolution sprites. Anythig else can be done in software.

Further... Imagine sprites part software and part hardware. For example a mighty=large enemy, the body is made via software sprites and the face(or what ever) is shown using a hardware sprite(s) with a high resolution.

Again to the 128 KB discussion... The Giana Sisters Clone I'm working on has already serious problems to run in 128 KB, guess 100 bytes are unused and the game is NOT finished.
So, IMHO if we want to do our future X-Type project well, 128 KB is the MINIMUM. (Personally I would like to use a minimum of 256 KB, but I will be alone with this oppinion, so I better don't talk about it...).


Plus Sprites: Yeah! They seem to be a mathematical compromise ;-)

Quote from: TFM/FS on 18:06, 12 May 10
So, IMHO if we want to do our future X-Type project well, 128 KB is the MINIMUM. (Personally I would like to use a minimum of 256 KB, but I will be alone with this oppinion, so I better don't talk about it...).

Are you kidding, 256K is fine with me... my 6128 Plus is fully loaded with 512k, the more the merrier. So instead of 64K, do a 128k and 256k game. But please, it needs to run outside of an OS. i.e. boot straight from basic.

Well, 256k is far from being a factory setting...

Of course because I have 3x 6128+ it's like I have 384k RAM...but no...


what would be the point with soo much RAM ?

More graphix ?
More Sounds ?

Perhaps releasing a 512ko cartridge/Rom would be enough then... and would enable a GX4000 compatibility also, so the totallity of PLUS possessors would buy this (we know some GX4000 have money to waste...

But to be honest I always wonder what would be a Amstrad 6512PLUS unleashed power do...

a 512K RAM/ROM demo or Game would actually be neat.

Or a 512K ROM + 512K RAM + 3"1/2 Disk... ???


Speccy scene actually released what they call "megagames" in east Europa (russians are crazy...) in the post-commercial speccy era (90's)

Because they actually have clones with extended specifications (many have 256K RAM or even more, and 3"1/2 disk drives too...), some even have built-in extra Video Hardwares...

But on CPC, perhaps only Orion Prime can pretend to be a Mega Game...

Yet just having a ghame which loads data between each levels and make full use of the 128K is still quite rare.

do you know any game in 128K using more than one complete disk ?

"Pirates!" perhaps if you count the Save disk ?
halas most of its graphics where lazy C64ports...
And the few action parts are a bit sluggish too (yet a lot of calculus as it is managed like a roleplaying/strategic game too...

Oh, and the French version had a lot of minor bugs too...lol...


Bavck to topic, what would you do with that many RAM ?
this doesn't help the Z80 that much actually.

Would it ?

Of course this may enable a lot of varied graphic along the same level... and a music very long and varied too...

Tet you'll still be limited by the 3 channels of the AY, and the fact that your Z80 has 16K squated by video at 50Hz... and by the sound too actually...

Also your only 16 Hardsprites are long to upload inside the ASIC... so you cannot make any animation festival...with them...

Yet SoftSprites with that much memory may actually be sweet... lots of variations and even re-oriented sprites variants with no software mirror effect... 8)


I wish I had a cheap RAM/ROM box for my Amstrads...

StarSabre is awesome, especially in 128k version, yet the backgrounds are quite simple, sprites are small and the windows is small too...

I agree with MacDeath here.
above 128k and probably with need of extra ROMs a game is not enjoyable.

If a new game, it should run on base hardware without extras, super os'es, 3d accelerator cards, harddrives etc...
(Or who wants to code Direct-X port for Z80 and connect the new Nfidia GeFarce CPC-GT XLR-8-R?)

Simple:
Max 128k, should run on each machine with 128k ram!
That's it.

A CPC is not an Amiga or PC.
So we know about it's limits and these are ok.

QuoteGeFarce

:D ;D :laugh:

Was this pun intended ?

Well on the other hand, if we could get a cheap and easy way to get 256K as a standard feature...
I always like to think that if 16bits were in 512k, a proper 8 bit should actually be in 256K...

But Allan sugar was cheap as hell... :'(
He became rich because of this...


I simply wish a 512K GX4000 ROM based DEMO could participate to a Demo contest and close the Commordork's mouth once and for all... 8)

I thought everyone on this forum had more than 128K packed tightly into their CPC's or Plus machines?

Quote from: ukmarkh on 00:32, 13 May 10
I thought everyone on this forum had more than 128K packed tightly into their CPC's or Plus machines?

I've got a collection of cpcs, some with 64k ;)

Quote from: ukmarkh on 00:32, 13 May 10
I thought everyone on this forum had more than 128K packed tightly into their CPC's or Plus machines?

My 464 has 64k.
My 664, too.
My 6128's have 128k.
My 6128+ also has 128k.

no ram expansions...

Quote from: MacDeath on 23:36, 12 May 10
I simply wish a 512K GX4000 ROM based DEMO could participate to a Demo contest and close the Commordork's mouth once and for all... 8)

a demo is comming that shows the standard cpc power. Not made by me... but I think people will be impressed when it's done.

All the commodore fans would say "that doesn't count".. because they all make demos for standard c64 config.
This 512k rom demo would either be cpc+ or "wild".

But, keep wishing because one day it will come true.

What Do We Want? 512K Games. When Do We Want Them? Now!

What Do We Want? 512K Games. When Do We Want Them? Now!

What Do We Want? 512K Games. When Do We Want Them? Now!

What Do We Want? 512K Games. When Do We Want Them? Now!
(http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/02/what-do-we-want-our-data-when-do-we-want-it-now/)

Then do it ! :o

512K-Games?
I guess it´s real difficult to fill that memory with data, isn´t?
Unless you have tons of digitized sounds in your game for example.

Quote from: MacDeath on 23:12, 12 May 10
StarSabre is awesome, especially in 128k version.

You´re right.

Quote from: MacDeath on 23:12, 12 May 10
...yet the backgrounds are quite simple

The backgrounds of the first two levels are simple, but in the higher levels the backgrounds gains richness. 

Quote from: MacDeath on 23:12, 12 May 10
...sprites are small.

The sprites are small and they looks too much like "playmobil", except the impressive level end bosses. Have you ever seen the final level end boss? He´s really vicious! The devil!   :o

Quote from: MacDeath on 23:12, 12 May 10
...the windows is small too...

In my opinion the window is large enough. There are a lot of CPC-Games with smaller window and jerky scrolling/animation.

The end of level bosses are really good in both the 64K and 128K versions, but the animated end sequence is better on the 64K version. I love the extra level on the 128K version though, and I find the scrolling, view and controls to be really good.

It's probably the best shoot-em-up on the CPC, but R-Type would smash it if done right.

Quote from: ukmarkh on 13:43, 13 May 10
What Do We Want? 512K Games. When Do We Want Them? Now!

What Do We Want? 512K Games. When Do We Want Them? Now!

What Do We Want? 512K Games. When Do We Want Them? Now!

What Do We Want? 512K Games. When Do We Want Them? Now!

I assume you mean games that use 512k of ram at runtime, or at least games which use more than 128k at runtime.
Using 512k from multiload and with only 64k runtime is also possible ;)

Really my thoughts are 512k for cartridge: of course, this is supported by base 464+ and 6128+ and gx4000, but you'd be limited to 64k runtime.
To make it work on all. But really that may not actually sound as bad as you think, because you could use more base 64k for screen and the code would run happily from inside the cartridge.

512k game for standard cpc? You are limiting your audience here. And really if you're going for 512k then you're also limiting it to disc users, because loading 512k of game from tape is not going to be a fun experience ;) (Here I mean loading the entire 512k ram in one go, compared to reading levels and bits)

My personal choice is still to make a game which will run on the base system, the one you can just buy without upgrading.
And still 512k cartridge comes into play here...

As for making a game of this size, well lots of levels, lots of graphics, lots of sounds would really fill the space. The code itself would not..
and then for me this is a problem because making sounds and graphics are not my thing, so I would definitely need help here.

But anyway, I have other projects to finish first ;)

Carts sporting 512K would be fantastic. I'd be over the moon.

Quote from: arnoldemu on 15:04, 13 May 10
I assume you mean games that use 512k of ram at runtime, or at least games which use more than 128k at runtime.
Using 512k from multiload and with only 64k runtime is also possible ;)

Really my thoughts are 512k for cartridge: of course, this is supported by base 464+ and 6128+ and gx4000, but you'd be limited to 64k runtime.
To make it work on all. But really that may not actually sound as bad as you think, because you could use more base 64k for screen and the code would run happily from inside the cartridge.

512k game for standard cpc? You are limiting your audience here. And really if you're going for 512k then you're also limiting it to disc users, because loading 512k of game from tape is not going to be a fun experience ;) (Here I mean loading the entire 512k ram in one go, compared to reading levels and bits)

My personal choice is still to make a game which will run on the base system, the one you can just buy without upgrading.
And still 512k cartridge comes into play here...

As for making a game of this size, well lots of levels, lots of graphics, lots of sounds would really fill the space. The code itself would not..
and then for me this is a problem because making sounds and graphics are not my thing, so I would definitely need help here.

But anyway, I have other projects to finish first ;)

Well, 512k ROM (or RAM, thats almost the same...well not exactly the same actually...)


we would need to consider the game differently.

Of course as said, a lot of digitized sounds is an easy way to fill this space... but we have to remember that digisounds are also expensive for the CPU to manage (despite the DMA channels...)

So you cannot put them everywhere at anytime...

Such game would feature a shitton of cinematics of course as it is also an easy way to fill the space.
an overscanned full screen in normal mode is 24K... of course it can be compressed (less Ko but more time), patched with HardSprites (heavier), animated, scrolled and so on.


I think the Orion Prime intro is 128k...actually...


Another way to fill those : lots of different stuff.

You don't have to re-use the same ennemy sprite form one level to another...
Or you can, of course, but because all datas are in RµOM, you have access to all so you don't have to be limited to only 2-3 kind of monsters per levels...

Look at renegade...
Only 2 kind of villains per levels...
What if some levels managed to get 8 different kind of villains ?


Also : no "soft-mirror effect".

Each sprites are doubled to get the left or right version...(or up/down, depending of the tpe of the game)
No more "magical weapon arm change..." each time you turn left-right...

this take more memory but less CPU time : I vote for.

What else...
Different music for each levels of course...

a lot of special events or animation are possible too.
dialogues with bosses and so on.


Have you seen Earthworm Jim on Megadrive ???

Another funny stuff : you may get a shitton of different Tiles for your levels...
I did some re-tiling in the past.

Being limited to only 128 or 256  8x8tiles per level can actually be very limited...
I wanted to include piece of landscape such as Greeck-roman statues...
the kind of thing that looks good but...
you know 8 tiles per 12 tiles, this makes 96 tiles...

64pix per 96pix...

96 tiles !!! just to get a little statue on the screen...
Well with those 512Ko you may perhaps include a lot of large special one-use-only sceneries in your levels...

And if you do so, you'll see that 512Ko is far from being that much actually.

So IMO, it wouldn't be that difficult to fill 512Ko.

Yes Orion Prime took 4 years to fill the 720Ko Disk...
buty they were'nt numerous and this games feature a lot of original graphics...
Also a lot of minigames...which is also a way to add stuff, but need to get a complete design on it's own, and its own engine too.

A tile based  action game may take a bit less time actually.

Please take a look at this YouTube-Video of Star Sabre.
It looks jerky, what is the reason?
Made by jealous C64-Freaks?
Insufficient framerate of the video?
A disaster!
A smooth CPC-Shooter looks jerky because of this poor video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04G9pVjPnFA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04G9pVjPnFA)


This video of Star Sabre looks like the "real thing".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX4TDduqOXs&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX4TDduqOXs&feature=related)

QuoteMade by jealous C64-Freaks?

;D :laugh:

I don't think so... Mark Hall...is it UKMARKH ?
The same who come often here ?

Are you really a commodork trolling us here, Markh  ? ???

The reason is simpler : it's actually difficult to get a proper CPC video with emulators (most of time the sound is out of synch...) , nearly impossible to get a decent one from a real CPC too, and even more difficult to get it smooth and good looking on Youtube because of all the compressions Youtube put.


Personnal question : LEONIE, are you really a girl ?

Screw you Leonie... and yes Leonie's a girl  ;)

Quote from: MacDeath on 16:44, 13 May 10
Personnal question : LEONIE, are you really a girl ?

I won´t argue that point.
Here I am Woman, here dare it to be.
I take pride in the words: "Ich bin eine Frau"

I also like the sound effects of Zynaps.
There is almost no silence during the game, you can always hear anything. Not only the sound-fx of the bullets and explosions. There are also some "approach-noises" of the enemies and more.


This could be a good scoring for the new R-Type:
A very good titeltune, nice highscore-music, nerve-splitting-end-of-level-boss-music, and lots of sound effects. And some jingles ("Level Complete", "Game Over"...).
I don´t think that ingame-music is really essential.

128KB so that we can have two overscan displays in order to get smooth scrolling?

I don't mind the level data and graphics (and music) being multi-load from disc however.


Will the game be using pre-shifted tile graphics? MODE 1 would require 4x the tiles wouldn't it? That's pretty harsh.

Quote from: MacDeath on 17:38, 14 May 10
Concerning music, I think it will depend if the engine allows it properly while being smooth and fast enough.

Perhaps the option to switch off the music may be good.

I don´t like music & SFX to the same time if there are only 3 channels.
Remember Cybernoid (CPC) for example: The music falls into pieces and that sounds awful.
Another example: Ghost´n Goblins (C64). It sounds ridiculous! Each SFX destroys the SIDs swansong.
By the way:
The music from Ghost´n Goblins (CPC) sounds really thick and dramatic (CPC connected to a hifi system). Thanks be to David Whittaker. AY at its best!
The music from Ghost´n Goblins (C64) sounds like an absolute joke.

omfg ! godwin point for all  :P
(from r-type X to WW2 , i must say i am impressed , one of the most impressive i ever seen)

Quote from: fano on 21:50, 14 May 10
omfg ! godwin point for all  :P
(from r-type X to WW2 , i must say i am impressed , one of the most impressive i ever seen)

Technically it's not the Godwin rule, because it doesn't involve mentioning Hitler or the Nazis to make a point, the topic just drifted there, but I'll let it pass because it made me smile.

HOWEVER, people: get a grip, please. Wanna talk about u-boots? Be my guests, it's one of my favorite issues and the Third Reich (and WWII in general) is my hobby. THERE'S AN OFF-TOPIC FORUM for that. As for sexist comments, maybe some took my position about tolerating 'adult' language a bit too far. Please don't make me lock this thread.

Dixi.

Quote from: Gryzor on 08:04, 16 May 10
Please don't make me lock this thread.

:angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:
:angel: Holy Gryzor :angel:
:angel: Brother Of God :angel:
:angel: Pray For Us Sinners :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:
:angel: Now And At The Hour Of Our Death. :angel:   
:angel: Amen. :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:
:angel: :angel: :angel:

Quote from: Gryzor on 08:04, 16 May 10
HOWEVER, people: get a grip, please. Wanna talk about u-boots? Be my guests, it's one of my favorite issues and the Third Reich (and WWII in general) is my hobby. THERE'S AN OFF-TOPIC FORUM for that. As for sexist comments, maybe some took my position about tolerating 'adult' language a bit too far.

I totally agree here.
Nothing against funny threads. But I think this topic wasn't started to get totally off-topic.
I see that in the last time many threads gone too off-topic and it's no fun anymore to reply them

When you want to start bullsh** threads, use "Off-Topic" forum.
When you are sexually depressed, use personal messages.

Now, please let's get back to topic: R-Type X CPC

The "bullshit" was non-scheduled. It just so happened.
It´s like in real life. You can´t always keep the things separate.
We are human beings, not machines.

But now....back to topic

ERRMMM .... What did I miss? Were the posts deleted? Who was the naughty boy in question?  :P

Yea, that Star Sabre vid is mine ... done as usual in WinApe, I think the AVI file was directly uploaded to YouTube and not edited, can't remember now - it was just a quick playthrough.



BACK ON TOPIC -

I'd love to see this R-Type game optimised for the Plus machines personally, they're so woefully undersupported - it's not like anyone can go and sell this game like Star Sabre due to copyright etc and everyone has access to emulators to play it ... I don't see the problem personally. I'd rather see it finished though on whatever format.

Also the fact the PLUS range never got decent especially designed real-shooterz...

And just this fact is a rightfull goal for us, the Amstrad Scene, to get rid of all those Commodorks and Sprectumers sarcasms...

Quoteit's not like anyone can go and sell this game like Star Sabre due to   copyright etc and everyone has access to emulators to play it ... I   don't see the problem personally. I'd rather see it finished though on   whatever format.

The point is that managing a Cartridge production would need some initial financial investment.
Eprom are not free and a ready to use ACID ersatz is not yet achieved.

We can be almost sure the lot of retro-console collectionners who make the GX4000 the rarity it is (reaching Himalayanesque prices on €bay) would be eager to buy the originals at an impressive fee.

But a 6128+version (disk + 128K RAM) is more than enough to get a decent stuff.
Despite that, ROM games are fully optimisable and would really unleash the beast.

Quote
Technically it's not the Godwin rule, because it doesn't involve   mentioning Hitler or the Nazis to make a point

But WW2 always implies Nazi and Hitler... ;D

Hey, this could be a sweet setting for this soon to be produced Shooter...

Quote from: MacDeath on 08:08, 17 May 10
Also the fact the PLUS range never got decent especially designed real-shooterz...

And just this fact is a rightfull goal for us, the Amstrad Scene, to get rid of all those Commodorks and Sprectumers sarcasms...
The point is that managing a Cartridge production would need some initial financial investment.
Eprom are not free and a ready to use ACID ersatz is not yet achieved.

We can be almost sure the lot of retro-console collectionners who make the GX4000 the rarity it is (reaching Himalayanesque prices on €bay) would be eager to buy the originals at an impressive fee.

But a 6128+version (disk + 128K RAM) is more than enough to get a decent stuff.
Despite that, ROM games are fully optimisable and would really unleash the beast.
But WW2 always implies Nazi and Hitler... ;D

Hey, this could be a sweet setting for this soon to be produced Shooter...

Ah yes, well in quick basic terms ... I suppose I mean a disk game for the 6128+ then  ;D

[youtube=KzxWHqo_gXg]Space Manbow on MSX 2+...[/youtube]


Space Manbow on MSX 2+...

Looks Awesome.

I know the MSX2 was largely superior to even a 6128+...
The game was probably on cartridge, MSX2+ had a lot of additionnal RAM compaired to a 6128+ and a large part of it was dedicated VideoRAM, not using the CPU ressource.

Also additionnal sound system, and shitton of Hardwired Sprties, Almost TreuColours mode and so on...
Yet this is perhaps the kind of stuff an Amstrad PLUS should aim at.
Our yet too few Hardsprites can perhaps be multiplexed a bit for some shooting effects (weves of flames...) and as the player's vessel is moved but not animated, it only use 1 sprite slot obviously.

Also the Hardwired Scrolling...perhaps a bit of DMA channel...a bit of interruptions...

IMO, this is almost what we may/could/can/should/will/have to/shall! achieve on a 6128+ with a 512K Rom cartridge... (or a Rombox).


Also a MSX2+ selection...

[youtube=VLZSIT5Jn_0]MSX 2+...[/youtube]

Quote from: MacDeath on 14:43, 21 May 10
I know the MSX2 was largely superior to even a 6128+...

Really?
As far as I know the MSX2 is a 8-Bit Machine without hardware scrolling/sprites.
I´m sure we can achieve games in "MSX-Quality" on the 6128+.

MSX2 norm include Yamaha V9938 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_V9938) that have hardware facilities (seems to be a nice VDP for 8 bit computer).

Quote from: fano on 18:33, 21 May 10
...seems to be a nice VDP for 8 bit computer.

Wow, that´s quite impressive.
256 Colours/256*212 (wikipedia)...can this be true?

Why not ? let's find one to try this  ;) (an emulator may be enough)
8bits japanese machines were really advanced...

Also MSX2+ was even better equipped in Scrollings and sprites...

MSX2/2+/turboR (almost a 16bit) were equipped with what can be compaired to a real video Card as Video chip had its own VRAM...a feature The CPC should have included if only it was designed as a 128K computer...
The Amstrad PLUS with such specific VideoRAM would simply be awesome and a real match for a MSX.

As a result, MSX could get up to 64K or even 128K (depends of the model, spec and constructor) of VideoRAM while the CPC/PLUS only sticked at 16k... but could actually use more thx to the fullscreen trick (24K to fill completely the screen, 32K if you want something able to go to the owerscan zone...).
Yet this increased Video Ram on Amstrads couldn't be used to increase the number of Bit per pixels... or else we could have got a 256colour Mode0 with twice bit per pixel...16colours Mode1 and 4 colour mode2... :'(

That is where the 6128 failed : to bring a real addition...
And where the PLUS range failed to : to stick with (4)64k specs...

Worst part ?

While reading good old Amstrad 100% magazines, Amstrad had the idea to built a MSX-CPC..."for japanese market"...
Actually, the Amstrad PLUS should have been oriented as such a crossbreed... something able to emulate the CPC, Speccy AND ideally MSX specs...

After all, Amstrad owned the Speccy...a model with both features (Caracter system, And real video modes...) and able to mix those, with specific VRam in a 128k min config...

Exemple : character attribute system as optionnal, alongside the normal 16K CPC modes... could allows something like a mode1 with 4 coulours in each characters...with something like 4 palettes (4x4=16...) as the normal CPC could manage a 16+1 palette (inks and border...)
Could actually have been a "cheap way" to get a 16+1 coloured Mode1...
And with 4 colours per characters, the colour clashes are far less severe, and no need for raster colour changes (well, less need...) :'( :'(

But it is also to notice that the MSX were more expensive computers than Amstrads...

.... And that the MSX standard failed completely in Europe (apart from the NL)!

Had a Sony Hit Bit alongside my CPC back than, nothing superior about the the Sony Hit Bit!! (I endend up selling it, because I hardly used it, games on expensive cartridges, and no 80 column mode - bad for serious stuff)

Felt like a crossover between  the Speccy and the C64...

Well my personal opinion!

/Ygdrazil

Quote from: MacDeath on 10:15, 22 May 10
But it is also to notice that the MSX were more expensive computers than Amstrads...

Haven't I mentioned before that the best 8-bit version of Bubble Bobble was on the MSX2.

That being said, the best 8-bit system for my money (other than the CPC ;)) would have to be the PC Engine / TurboGrafx 16.  8-bit CPU with awesome graphic capabilities.

Japanese arcade games where greatly ported on MSX, because often by the same company...that made the original Arcade game.
Thisd perhaps explains why the MSX bubbleBobble is closer to the arcade in the bonus system, isn't it ?

But a 6128+ specific version of bobble may be quite good...
Yet of course MSX specs where superior, but also the fact games where supplied on Cartridges...

Just looking at Robocop2, Pang, Plotting or Navy Seal to know ROM/Cartridge is a real boost... and those were only 128k ROMs for only 64k RAM specs...

IMO the Amstrad CPC is not that inferior to a MSX1...
But as the MSX standards got 3 "upgrades" while CPC got only 1 (the PLUS)...

Amstrad 6128PLUS is still quite good when compaired to an average MSX2... but against a 2+ or turbo R (in fact more like 3 and 4...) it's clearly not the same league...

Hy, i like shumps.
Plusfeatures are still perfect. (need the sprites for bullets and the main ship and the scrolling for a fast background, which can be slowing down before the Bosses)
I Prefere sth. like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2o3Z0Jygx4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2o3Z0Jygx4)
or this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AQigCTyr14 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AQigCTyr14).
The Diary of a little aviator is one of the best doujin Shumps, nice and cute.

A Shooter have to be fast, hard and needs a rockin´tune...
My 50 Cents ;)
Bye
Tolkin

Quote from: MacDeath on 13:46, 22 May 10
IMO the Amstrad CPC is not that inferior to a MSX1...

In my humble opinion, the CPC isn't inferior to the MSX-standard in any way

QuoteIn my humble opinion, the CPC isn't inferior to the MSX-standard in any   way

Well, of course both were Z80 based hardware, with empathy on the video.
The CPC was quite close to the MSX standard at the begining.

MSX 1 was like a CPC with Speccy video display modes...
And also a bit of harddwired sprites/scrolls....

But no MSX1 games impressed me, nor MSX2... But when MSX2+ and tuboR...this is clearly better...yet far too japanese (I hate their RPGs...)

So video modes in Attributes...yet better done.16 colours per screen and attributes were 8 time as on speccy (so each raster....)
But Amstrad failed to really improove its CPC/8bit specs...
Exemple : CPC6128
Should have got more stuff than simply bank switched +64k memory...
Basically it's just a +64K CPC664...

Back to topic.

MSX was actually better than CPC in :

--Video : MSX had some sort of real Video RAM...VRAM...
While CPC didn't because it wasn't designed to have more than 64K...
It's even a miracle we got 6128 versions actually.

--Sound : MSX got access to many additionnal SoundChip, in latter Specs, and was often marketed as a music machine.
While CPC, while having an AY before the speccy... was cheaply supplied in sounds...

But hey, you could get a completely equipped CPC + colour monitor and disc drive for the price of a MSX with nothing...sort of...

So with equivalent config, total 128k or 64k...
And no upgrade...the CPC wasn't that inferior to the era equivalent MSX (MSX 1...) but inferior to many latter models...

Problem : because Amstrad lacked the ambition in 8 bit...CPC wasn't upgraded as often as needed.
It wasn't even really easily upgradable...

PLUS range was too little too late.

Should have had no 64K RAM only  models, 256k or 512k ROM cartridges...
GX4000 per exemple should have been the 464...
Just add a Keyboard plug + Tape plug + extention plug...

And perhaps some sort of VRAM or Video DMA  too.
Actually it need 2 ASIC+ ACID instead of 1 ASIC+ACID (because ACID is some sort of ASIC...custom component...)

Getting the PLUS with 2 real ASIC could enable the classic console or Atari8 bit or Amiga settinhg...
1 custom chip for sound and 1 custom chip for Video...

So : you can get better of both, while putting all this in just 1 component is...ruining it all.


And yes, the CPC has some sort of Hardware scrolling actually...
So It can actually be as good as a MSX1 and perhaps MSX2...
The PLUS is clearly better than a MSX2 (as a well rounded computer) and can still perhaps compare to a MSX2+ in overall...
But Fact is in Video (the good advantage of Amstrad actually compared to speccy and C64...) the MSX standards went very far...
Perhaps the first "true colour" "massive market"computers... And in sounds...MAny stuff additionned to the simple AY.

More than just Stereo and DMA (bugged).

Ok friends, this will be a looong answer, since I've been in holidays and then I needed two weeks to get used to real live again.

@UKMarkH: Great to hear that you would like the "use all 512 KB" idea.

@MacDeath: The advantage of using more than 128 KB is that you can work with bigger sprite-sets and more/bigger background gfx. Also Sound needs RAM, but GFX needs much more. And if a game should be really fast (means the scrolling is smooth) the GFX must be UNcompressed in RAM.
BTW: The Cartridge Demo is a cool idea!
Space Manbow is interesting, but can be done also on CPC. However coming closer to the limits.
I like the fact that the CPC has no designated special Video-RAM, so the system is just more flexible. Well, in a way the CPC has it, it's the first 64 KB.

@Devilmarkus: It's ok, if you're allright with the 128 KB limitation. I'm not ok with only using the minor equipment. In contrast, I think that for a real good game any kind of expansion should be used. Only this brings us forward, else we can stay with the 80ies. Some may like it, some not.

@Leonie: It's not hard at all to fill 512 KB with a game. In contrast, I've extreme problems to squeeze our Giana Clone in only 128 KB, and it is already loading every thing from disc. In case of a 576KB CPC, the RAM is fully used – already.
And... the example that FX can let sound fall into pieces must be remembered! Good point!
Come one, guess 80% of the CPC users of today have 512 KB. Just get em! (these 512 KB expansion RAM I mean ;)

@Tolkin: Well, a shump is something VERY different, therefore one need really a different game engine, specifically made for hundreds of very very quick sprites. Even the 16 Plus Sprites will not help much with this. But it can be done ... ;-)

QuoteI like the fact that the   CPC has no designated special Video-RAM, so the system is just more   flexible. Well, in a way the CPC has it, it's the first 64 KB.

Yes and no.

Of course if CPC had something like specific 16K VRAM...stuff like Overscan may not be that easy to do, also reducing the screen or re-dimension it...not always easy then.

So as a total 64K or 128K RAM, CPC is not that bad of course, yet getting the Video able to take Datas elsewhere from the Ram banks than in the central memory (independently) could also allows the Z80 to get full power...not interrupt itselfs so often...

Léonie started another topic, i talk about some Atari Lynx shooterz...
Perhaps something like Gate of zendocon would be great too.

QuoteCome on, guess 80% of   the CPC users of today have 512 KB. Just get em! (these 512 KB expansion   RAM I mean

I don't... :'(

I don't see the problem with using 512k of Ram to improve things. People go out and buy Prodatron's stuff and other add-ons, and recently a project has come about for running games straight from SD devices. Nobody ever argues against these improvements, so why isn't upgrading the CPC to 512K Ram considered just as vital.


More power is good, how can it be a bad thing.   

We had this kind of debate, that's true...

a cheap Ram Card is all I need... :P

But many CPC users are the guys (and Girlz) that re-find it in their garage, plug it and start it again... to see if it still works.
Just to find it may need a simple drivebelt replacement, or nothing in case of a CPc464...and works well.

Such peoples are eager to get new games as downloaded stuff (MP3 formated tapes games per exemple, easier way IMO) but not always willing to actually buy new stuff...
Just getting a retro-tear is enough for them.

Already speaked about this , for me that must not be an obligation for the user to have 512K or a specific hardware to run a game except if the hardware is sell with the game.Else it is a like demos especially made for a specific CRTC.
For sure , it is enjoyable to have more memory as you can deploy some interesting programming tricks, counterpart is you will exclude some users.With stock configuration , you are sure to have the largest audience possible.

We get some 250 unique visitors every day in this site. And I guess we're the 'hardcore' ones. But how many of us actually buy hardware add-ons? Now project this to the total CPC fan number and you'll get an idea why it's not realistic to create mega-games, although I'd surely like to see one...

I'll add to what i said about this , if you want to devellop a R-Type game for 512K so please make a physical distribution and bundle it with a 512K extension , i'll buy it  ;D

Quote from: fano on 11:27, 18 June 10
if you want to devellop a R-Type game for 512K so please make a physical distribution and bundle it with a 512K extension

I think that's a good idea. But how about offering the game as a ROM with the needed memory built-in? Would that be possible?

I think that question was already asked and as far as I remember, it is not possible because the cartridge system does not support it.

Not for Cartridge for plus but for expansion connector ?

Quote from: fano on 06:53, 18 June 10
Already speaked about this , for me that must not be an obligation for the user to have 512K or a specific hardware to run a game except if the hardware is sell with the game.Else it is a like demos especially made for a specific CRTC.
For sure , it is enjoyable to have more memory as you can deploy some interesting programming tricks, counterpart is you will exclude some users.With stock configuration , you are sure to have the largest audience possible.

I am in agreement here. But also, I believe that games should have extras or support for those who have more ram or other configurations.

So for 64k you probably get a cutdown game, add more ram and you get more graphics, sound, single load that kind of thing.
I know this takes a little more work, but it works out best I think.

512k on cartridge has already been discussed. But here I would aim for 64k base ram + 512k rom. If 128k was available it may be used to give an even better experience.

Maybe one day we'll see two different versions of cpc+ games?

64k ram, 512k cart
128k ram, 512k cart

Or maybe 128k ram, 512k cart + 3" disc ;)

Quote from: ukmarkh on 14:44, 17 June 10
I don't see the problem with using 512k of Ram to improve things. People go out and buy Prodatron's stuff and other add-ons, and recently a project has come about for running games straight from SD devices. Nobody ever argues against these improvements, so why isn't upgrading the CPC to 512K Ram considered just as vital.

More power is good, how can it be a bad thing.

Well, Prodatron is not producing any kind of hardware. The SF-II was developped by Dr.Zed. And he still produces the SF-II. However, Prodatron is selling the stuff for Dr.Zed. Well, I ordered a SF-II, but I didn't get one...

But aside of the SF-II (in case you can't get one) there are other solutions to get an RAM upgrade.

A chearp solution for ROM & RAM upgrade is needed. In this case, the internal CPC expansion from Jarek is great! Have a look at:

http://8bit.yarek.pl/upgrade/cpc.cpc4mb/index.html (http://8bit.yarek.pl/upgrade/cpc.cpc4mb/index.html)

SF-II is great and the 4 MB expansion is great too! I like em both.

For games...
Think, best would be a 128 KB version and a version for the CPC with 576 KB of RAM (means including a 512 KB expansion RAM). This is a compromise, but should be a doable one.

About scrolling: The scrolling from TTL is PERFECT in both directions (hori & vertical) as long as you have maximum speed :-)

Edit:
@Arnoldemu: Sorry, but IMHO the time of 64 KB games should be really over. Because a 64 KB CPC provides only let's say 30 KB for the game itself (32 for V-RAM and 2 KB for DOS, disregarding which one ;-). And that's just toooo small.
Think that everybody has a 6128 today or can get one. Think there is probably no CPC user, who has ONLY 464's without one 6128. Sorry again, but let's accept 128 KB as minimum RAM.

I can see it from both perspectives, and I'm for both options.

The problem also exists on the J2ME platform (mobile games). You can find a lot of crap games at e.g. getjar.com, which doesn't represent the power of your phone at all. This is of course because the developers are still supporting extremely old phones, because they want to have the biggest possible audience and/or sales. I think that is a shame, and I think more J2ME developers should use the power of newer phones to create better games.

So I can understand why you'd want to have better games for the CPC as well, since it is technically possible. The difference is however, that there was never a CPC with 512kb ram. And making a game that requires 512kb is almost like making a game for a completely different platform in my opinion. It just doesn't feel as CPC'ish as other releases somehow.

But I think it's just about there being 2 groups on interest here. The nostalgics, who prefers to stick with what was, and the geeks who's curious to see never-before-seen life on a CPC.
I'm part of both groups though, and trying to find out which group I prefer the most is surprisingly difficult. At first I thought I'd prefer the nostalgic the most, but on the other hand it would be quite intriguing to see something never before seen on my CPC.
So I'm pro both groups. I think it's cool to see game-developers sticking with the standard CPC boundaries, and who managed to produce something fantastic within those limitations.
I'd also like to see a 512kb game. I'm not sure it'll impress me the same way, but it would still be interesting. I would probably not buy the ram expansion for my CPC though, not at first anyway. Instead I'd check it out on an emulator. One single 512kb game wouldn't be enough for me to buy a 512kb expansion, no matter how good it was.

I agree that the standard should be 128kb ram though. I still prefer using my CPC464, which is why I also have 64kb additional ram for it. I think the games released by the nostalgic group should support the CPC464, as long as it has 128kb ram. And I'm happy to see that both Star Sabre, Dead on Time, and Orion Prime + a lot of other recent games all run perfect on my CPC464, even though it only has a CRTC 2.

I agree the 64K ram games time has to end.

Good Old CPC464 still have a great ludotheque.
But modern games are for modern peoples.

Of course yes it is possible do do great games in 64K Ram and even Tapes...
But on a Game-design (or even coding) point of view, this must lead to simple games or demands to compress datas in the to short RAM...
Even just having multiple loading is so needed...

64K ram lead to games such as paperboy : no sounds at all... Or rick dangerous : half levels/stuff...
Or even Barbarian was suffering from the 464 politic : you simply cannot play all along the 4 backgrounds in the same game... Why ? certainly because it was designed as a Tape game and simply put on Disk with not even the slightest re-code.

A simple 512K ram extension is not a big deal to get nowadays...We just need a unified design.

4MB is soewhat...perhaps too much.
The CPC is naturally supporting 512k...even slitghly more (isn't it 512k+64k actually ?)

This is more than enough to get 16bit level deepth games... not visually (CPC vidseo modes remain) nor in Sound or whatever, but in game deepthness...or complexity.


I'm in a Hardware phase as my brother is quite interested in this too.
Also I have to look for a sample card using almost no Z80"s power.

Would perhaps be like some external sampler, the CPC just put Datas inside at loading and use it as if it were a MIDI-like device... But it's only an idea for the moment...Need to actually manage the Cartridge for PLUS first...

I'm alsmot certain that until owned by a cracker/hardcore coder, most average CPC6128 (gamers...) has the 64k extra RAM banks completely untouched/unused/in near mint state...
while the Central 64kmemory must be quite worn out and about to collapse... ;D

Quote from: TFM/FS on 22:56, 18 June 10
Sorry, but IMHO the time of 64 KB games should be really over.
Sorry again, but let's accept 128 KB as minimum RAM.

The 6128 was my first computer. (under the control of my brother of course  :-X )
I don´t like computers with less than 128Kb Ram.
As you said, 128Kb is the minimum.

Quote from: TFM/FS on 22:56, 18 June 10
Think that everybody has a 6128 today or can get one. Think there is probably no CPC user, who has ONLY 464's without one 6128. Sorry again, but let's accept 128 KB as minimum RAM.

Bollocks... There's still a lot of 464, 664 and 464+ machines about and most owners probably don't have expansions for them and are hardly likely to purchase one now. If your game needs to use more than 64K then fine, make it 128K only but there will be some people who won't be able to play it.

I understand both sides of the question, so the thing is wether you'd like to make a game playable for most people or a special game though only available for people with more ram.


Both are valid approaches.

Quote from: mr_lou on 06:31, 19 June 10
So I can understand why you'd want to have better games for the CPC as well, since it is technically possible. The difference is however, that there was never a CPC with 512kb ram. And making a game that requires 512kb is almost like making a game for a completely different platform in my opinion. It just doesn't feel as CPC'ish as other releases somehow.

Well, to have a 512 KB expansion for the CPC is like to have a memory card in a cell phone. If you buy the phone it has not much memory, so nearly everybody buys a 1 GB (or what ever) memroy card. Even I did ;-)

A CPC with 512 KB expansion is today nearly a standard. IMHO I think that over 70% of the CPC owners have it today.

It would be different to developp only for a 4 MB RAM expansion. However I hope that a lot of people will use Jareks really cheap offer an upgrade their 6128 keyboard with the 4 MB internal memory. And there are already programs using it :-)

May we should create some polls here? Or maybe some time later?

Quote from: mr_lou on 06:31, 19 June 10
I agree that the standard should be 128kb ram though. I still prefer using my CPC464, which is why I also have 64kb additional ram for it. I think the games released by the nostalgic group should support the CPC464, as long as it has 128kb ram. And I'm happy to see that both Star Sabre, Dead on Time, and Orion Prime + a lot of other recent games all run perfect on my CPC464, even though it only has a CRTC 2.

Well, for the MC programmer a 464 with 128 KB and disc drive, a 128KB CPC664 and a 6128 are nearly equal, only some RAM mapping is different.
What I want to say is that it wouldn't make more efforts to include a 464 as long as it has a disc drive and 128KB.

Quote from: MacDeath on 10:32, 19 June 10
A simple 512K ram extension is not a big deal to get nowadays...We just need a unified design.

Well, all the different 512 KB RAM expansions are usable in the same way. Let me name them now... they are all compatible:

- 256 KB silicon disc + 256 KB RAM expansion from dk+tronics
- 512 KB RAM expansion from Dobbertin
- 512 KB RAM expansion from Inicron
- 512 KB RAM expansion from the Symbiface II
- 512 KB RAM part of Jareks 4 MB expansion.

They all can be used in the OUT &7FXX,&XX way. Where XX is &C4, &C5, &C6, &C7, &CC, &CD, &CE, &CF,    &D4, &D5, ..... &FF.

Quote from: MacDeath on 10:32, 19 June 10
The CPC is naturally supporting 512k...even slitghly more (isn't it 512k+64k actually ?)

Yes, right the amount of RAM we can use it 576 KB! Exactly!

Quote from: MacDeath on 10:32, 19 June 10
4MB is soewhat...perhaps too much.

Today you are right! But in 1 or 2 years, we have to talk again ;-)

Quote from: Executioner on 02:26, 23 June 10
Bollocks... There's still a lot of 464, 664 and 464+ machines about and most owners probably don't have expansions for them and are hardly likely to purchase one now. If your game needs to use more than 64K then fine, make it 128K only but there will be some people who won't be able to play it.

Who cares??? There are ENOUGH games for the 64 KB machines!!! 95% of all CPC games are made for 64 KB machines. NOW it's time to say good buy 64KB! Welcome in the future of 128 KB minimum games! Mankind can't stay still forever!

Quote from: TFM/FS on 19:01, 23 June 10

A CPC with 512 KB expansion is today nearly a standard. IMHO I think that over 70% of the CPC owners have it today.

I think you are wrong.

Most CPC owners probably have 6128. But there will be a lot with 464.

But if you mean serious users, then 95% will have 128k, and closer to 10% will have 512k ram expansions.
So 128k as a base is very fair. Also fair is disc only games.

Why ? Those 256k/512k ram expansions were expensive and also more difficult to find. Compared to 64k ram expansions for 464 which were very common.

Here I talk about in the UK.

My hardware at home:

CPC6128 * 3
CPC464+512k vortex ram
CPC464+64K ram
CPC664
KC Compact
1 x Symbiface 2


So you can say that most of my computers are about 128k ram.

I will continue to make games that work on all cpc's, including tape and 64k machines.

Making a game for 512k machines is making the game quite exclusive.

Hey, why not make a game only for 6128+ with 512k ram game?
Or a KC compact or Aleste only game ;)


Well lets also think this:

Making a game for 512k means more graphics and more sound, which means more hard work, which also means "is it going to be released??"

Making a game for 128k is much more easy on the programmer and artist and is more likely to be released.

Making a game for 64k is tough for programmer and artist because of the small ram, but it is still possible.

My thoughts.

Quote from: TFM/FS on 22:56, 18 June 10

Edit:
@Arnoldemu: Sorry, but IMHO the time of 64 KB games should be really over. Because a 64 KB CPC provides only let's say 30 KB for the game itself (32 for V-RAM and 2 KB for DOS, disregarding which one ;-). And that's just toooo small.
Think that everybody has a 6128 today or can get one. Think there is probably no CPC user, who has ONLY 464's without one 6128. Sorry again, but let's accept 128 KB as minimum RAM.

Well 64k is tough for a programmer yes. 128k and 512k are the easy way.
I will still continue to make games that will be compatible with the 64k machines. Don't forget 664 ;)


EDIT: Maybe a better idea would be that each person would list the CPCs they own and use most and for each list the setup they have. Then we could get a better understanding of the real baseline spec.

How will the program be distributed, probably downloaded to a PC and then somehow transferred to a CPC, you have probably lost most people there as they will not be able to transfer the program without explicit instructions and probably additional hardware, 3.5" disk, SD card and reader or cable connection- geeks only.

If the game is to be sold on a 512KB cartridge, then a cartridge port for CPC's might also be made available, eliminating the need for 512KB ram.
The cartridge will tailor it's execution profile according to memory size and presence of PLUS ula.

And while I am here, can I ask if CPC emulators have an option to execute software faster than real hardware?

Quote from: steve on 05:20, 25 June 10
And while I am here, can I ask if CPC emulators have an option to execute software faster than real hardware?

Most emulators do have a "turbo" option or, like in WinApe the possibility to adjust the speed.
JavaCPC also does have a "drive-turbo" which means that the emulation speeds up as much as it can while drive-processing and turns back to normal speed when data loaded.

Quote from: steve on 05:20, 25 June 10
How will the program be distributed, probably downloaded to a PC and then somehow transferred to a CPC, you have probably lost most people there as they will not be able to transfer the program without explicit instructions and probably additional hardware, 3.5" disk, SD card and reader or cable connection- geeks only.

If the game is to be sold on a 512KB cartridge, then a cartridge port for CPC's might also be made available, eliminating the need for 512KB ram.
The cartridge will tailor it's execution profile according to memory size and presence of PLUS ula.

And while I am here, can I ask if CPC emulators have an option to execute software faster than real hardware?

At this time most games are distributed as dsk or cdt files which can be used directly on an emulator.

You are correct that to transfer these to disc (dsk) or tape (cdt) does involve extra work. CDT is probably the easiest because it involves a cable between pc sound card and a tape recorder/cpc, especially since 3.5" drives in pcs are becoming less common.

Dsk is easy if you have 3.5" drive on pc and cpc. But yes that limits it a bit more, but I think not as much as you say.

For cartridge, well this narrows it down to 464+, gx4000 or 6128+. Having a 512k cartridge doesn't mean it needs more than 64k of runtime ram to run. If the cartridge also needs more than 64k runtime ram you are then limiting it to 6128+, or ultimately a 464+ or 6128+ with extra expansion ram. And here you are really limiting your audience.

I agree that physical cassette/disc is a good thing for less technical people, or to use an emulator with a dsk/cdt file.



As Markus has already said, a lot of emus have choice to make them faster.
This is good for speeding up loading.

Personally, I would not write a game for cpc that needed the emu to run faster than true speed, because this is not keeping it real.

Quote from: Devilmarkus on 10:11, 25 June 10
Most emulators do have a "turbo" option or, like in WinApe the possibility to adjust the speed.
JavaCPC also does have a "drive-turbo" which means that the emulation speeds up as much as it can while drive-processing and turns back to normal speed when data loaded.

I played Double Dragon 3 speeded up with Winape32 and its not a bad game, kinda enjoyed it. I've done the same thing with a few other slow CPC games and it turns out with the speed increase they are really good.

QuoteFor cartridge, well this narrows it down to 464+, gx4000 or 6128+.   Having a 512k cartridge doesn't mean it needs more than 64k of runtime   ram to run. If the cartridge also needs more than 64k runtime ram you   are then limiting it to 6128+, or ultimately a 464+ or 6128+ with extra   expansion ram. And here you are really limiting your audience.

My thoughts here was that a cartridge could make all cpc's, pluses and gx4000 equal, if you had a CPC 464 with an add-on cartridge port, you could run a 512KB program, the program in the cartridge will only use ram as temporary data storage and screen memory, 64KB being adequate but if 128KB ram or more then the program would display better graphics and more sounds, if there is a plus ula then it's features would be used, if not then software routines would be used where possible to replace the non-existant plus ula.

If a person or company were considering manufacturing 512KB cartridges, then making an add-on cartridge port for CPC's would maximise the market for cartridges, this add-on cartridge port might also enable software developers to program the cartridges themselves.

I voted for "My CPC has more than 64k ram".
But one important thing is missing here:
It should be also the point "My CPC has 128k ram" because I don't have an expanded CPC.
And I think, many other people, too.

Quote from: steve on 13:02, 25 June 10
My thoughts here was that a cartridge could make all cpc's, pluses and gx4000 equal, if you had a CPC 464 with an add-on cartridge port, you could run a 512KB program, the program in the cartridge will only use ram as temporary data storage and screen memory, 64KB being adequate but if 128KB ram or more then the program would display better graphics and more sounds, if there is a plus ula then it's features would be used, if not then software routines would be used where possible to replace the non-existant plus ula.

If a person or company were considering manufacturing 512KB cartridges, then making an add-on cartridge port for CPC's would maximise the market for cartridges, this add-on cartridge port might also enable software developers to program the cartridges themselves.

Well this kind of thing already exists in a form in the symbiface 2 hardware. (512k expansion ram, and 512k expansion rom I think).

The only thing that is directly missing is the ability to map one of the roms so that it activates instead of the OS rom.
So this means that existing games would need to be made so they could run from basic.

QuoteIt should be also the point "My CPC has 128k ram" because I don't have   an expanded CPC.

Quite true.


==Anyway, with modern components, an extension board with a few RAM and some flash ROM...as a RAM/ROM box... may be enough to get rid of Disks...yet a Harddisk drive would be sweet too.

(I have to look at how HardDisk drives actually work on Amstrads...)

Such MemoryCard would need a plug to connect it to a PC... or something...
(then the HxC SD-Interface  device is simply enough...)

I heard some device to channel datas from USB key to another with no PC do Exist.
Could this be used to fill the ROM card then ?

So such Extension may actually need some sort of FPGA -reprogrammed microcontroller - Modern reprogrammed CPU...




==Another problem perhaps : most softwares are not designed to launch from anything but Tapes or Disk...

What kind of solution do we have then ? must we crack/patch again every games in order to add a Disk Drive or ROM loading ?

As said, most games are 64K Ram only...so a simple Tape-like MP3 and a jack can suffice for any but the 6128+ (until pimped a bit, lol).
But as actual PLUS games using Tape format are somewhat er...
Well, anyway, a real Amstrad Fan always has a CPC (old) alongside his PLUSes... except perhaps BDC-Iron...

Also just getting 512k new cartridges is more than enough for the PLUS range...as this enable the full range to be used...
The +64K ram while having 512K rom is not that needed...compression ? really ? what for ? only for full screen cinematics pages...lol...

Perhaps the 128K may be implemented only as a way to get a bit more music or to gain a few additionnal graphics displayed on screen at the same time... But this is still some sort of nonsense... just designing better the 64K RAM version is quite enough, as putting  the stuff to manage 128K version could directly be used as additionnal stuffs already.

But coders are certainly better then me to answer this.

IMO, until you try to get a big RPG or Wargame... That may even like a 512K Rom + Disk + 128K RAM (perhaps even more, lol).

But Action games may not really need massive amount of (de)compression...or additionnal RAM (if released as ROMs...)

(de)compression was mostly used because of the no-re-load policy and then the limitation of only 64K, or even the Tape format...
better to uncompress using CPU than actually load with tape (slow and sluggish as hell)...or to screw up your game while trying to find the good block on the tape...


If I remember well...

--Pirates! or Heroquest : were likely to get 128K ram versions, because of the RPG style...lot of stuff to manage, multiloadings or savings and so on...

--Robocop : 128K RAM version only enabled the sampled voice ?
--DragonNinja : 128k version only enabled to load the full game once...perhaps a few additionnal samples ?

So mostly, 128K only added loading facilities or additionnal sounds ?

But never additionnal graphics, Gameplay or better speed ?

Quote from: arnoldemu on 10:08, 24 June 10
I think you are wrong.

But if you mean serious users, then 95% will have 128k, and closer to 10% will have 512k ram expansions.

Here I talk about in the UK.

Well, let me talk about germany. 90% have 576 KB CPCs. Hope you enjoyed football today as much as I did ;-)

Quote from: arnoldemu on 13:56, 25 June 10
Well this kind of thing already exists in a form in the symbiface 2 hardware. (512k expansion ram, and 512k expansion rom I think).

The only thing that is directly missing is the ability to map one of the roms so that it activates instead of the OS rom.

Wrong, autostart is no problem. FutureOS f.e. can do this if desired.

Quote from: MacDeath on 16:14, 25 June 10
So mostly, 128K only added loading facilities or additionnal sounds ?

But never additionnal graphics, Gameplay or better speed ?

Very true and very sad. This is the path we will NOT follow. We will use the 128 KB for a gain in speed, better gfx, better sound and better gameplay.

These before mentioned commercial games did it bad, because, they have been commercial and therefore didn't use enough efforts (= pay money to the programmers) to make it real good. However, at least they used the additional RAM.

A cartridge can overcome the need for more than 128 KB RAM. But the 128 KB is (for me) the ultimative mimimum requirement.

If somebody still want to use a 64 KB configuration... well, see what they produce that way. Nice but nothing else. In my eyes nothing worth being mentioned at all. Yes, I tell some hard words here, but we are living in era of the 6128 now and not 464 any longer!

Quote from: Devilmarkus on 13:34, 25 June 10
I voted for "My CPC has more than 64k ram".
But one important thing is missing here:
It should be also the point "My CPC has 128k ram" because I don't have an expanded CPC.
And I think, many other people, too.

This point has been added :-)

The poll is still not correct. There should be three options: 64kb, 128kb, more than 128kb. As it is it makes little sense...

Quote from: TFM/FS on 20:16, 27 June 10

Well, let me talk about germany. 90% have 576 KB CPCs. Hope you enjoyed football today as much as I did ;-)

I think it was more a case of England throwing it away... failing at the basics. But yes, Germany did play well and I hope they go on to the final, it was great to watch them playing like we want England to play.

Quote from: Gryzor on 08:00, 28 June 10
The poll is still not correct. There should be three options: 64kb, 128kb, more than 128kb. As it is it makes little sense...

Aehm, that's what we have now, with slightly different words.

14 people have indicated that they have more than 64kb, but you don't know how many of them have 128kb, nor how many have more than 128kb, maybe time for a new vote?
And add in how many use a monochrome monitor, so programmers can decide if they can write for colour only.

http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php/topic,824.0.html

Quote from: steve on 19:56, 28 June 10
14 people have indicated that they have more than 64kb, but you don't know how many of them have 128kb, nor how many have more than 128kb, maybe time for a new vote?
And add in how many use a monochrome monitor, so programmers can decide if they can write for colour only.

Ok, can you create the poll please?

Quote from: Devilmarkus on 20:00, 28 June 10
http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php/topic,824.0.html (http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php/topic,824.0.html)

For this new poll you should adjust the value 512 to 576 in the last line.


Ok, everybody having 128 KB or more!!! please vote agian.


BTW: These 64 KB guys go to every vote, so 10 votes for 576 KB should be addet in principle ;-)

Quote from: TFM/FS on 19:41, 28 June 10

Aehm, that's what we have now, with slightly different words.

Of course not. Your points should be:

=64k
=128k
>128k

at least. Instead you have
=64k
>64k
=128k.

Doesn't make any sense.

Quote from: Gryzor on 10:12, 29 June 10
Of course not. Your points should be:

=64k
=128k
>128k

at least. Instead you have
=64k
>64k
=128k.

Doesn't make any sense.

It does!

Use mathematics ;-) ">128k" = ">64k" - "=128k"

Or just take a look at the other poll...


Guess, here we can come back to the games-ideas itself. Let's keep in mind, the 128 KB solution would be the right thing.

Er... how can you say this? It makes absolutely no sense -and you're a scientist, too!

(apologies, there is no 'belongs' symbol so I'm using the euro symbol)
128k € (64...)

Therefore the third option is superfluous and falls within the limits of the second option. So you only have to options, 64k and more than 64k.

One semi-logical way to read it would be:
a.64k
b. 64k<mem<128k
c. =128k

But then you have two problems: there is nothing between 64 and 128k anyway, and you don't cover memories more than 128k!

It just dumbfounds me how you equate >128k with 128k and you don't see the difference. So I guess that for everyone who has 576k it's the same as 128k. God.

It should probably read:


A. 64K?
B. 128K?
C. 128K + Extra memory


:)

Quote from: Gryzor on 08:12, 01 July 10
Er... how can you say this? It makes absolutely no sense -and you're a scientist, too!

(apologies, there is no 'belongs' symbol so I'm using the euro symbol)
128k € (64...)

Therefore the third option is superfluous and falls within the limits of the second option. So you only have to options, 64k and more than 64k.

One semi-logical way to read it would be:
a.64k
b. 64k<mem<128k
c. =128k

But then you have two problems: there is nothing between 64 and 128k anyway, and you don't cover memories more than 128k!

It just dumbfounds me how you equate >128k with 128k and you don't see the difference. So I guess that for everyone who has 576k it's the same as 128k. God.

Yup! As I said:

=64k
=128k
>128k

Maybe this one pleases you now  :angel:

Well, having more than 128K may means, if modern cards are useds... +512K... cause well, what the point in +256K nowaday, as only +512K chip may be easily found...

but more seriously, is someone actually selling kits to craft a +512k simple card for CPC/Plus ?

From where I leave, it's quite difficult to get electronnical components directly, have to order on Internet... and getting a good price, we all know that unless you buy 50 components minimum, you get anally raped... :-\

And this can fastly go expensive...


May I ask if one of you has access to production equipment or really interesting prices on chips or printed cards ?

But a complete 6128+ with screen may cost only 30€ + car travel... in France.



Also back to topic...
What would be an engine for an horizontal Shooter R-Type like, able to handle +512K Ram AND the 128K minimum ? on a CPC+ ?

Actually, the +512K woud mean less loading times... Not "less" but less often... so a more fluid gaming experience once it is loaded...



More cinematics or even aditionnal sounds or graphic tiles/sprites... but real Gameplay has to stick on 64K... or more specifically 64k+64K... or 48K+64K with compression ?

As we know the Z80 can only handle 64K at the same time, minus the Video Ram sometimes...(50Hz) and standards interuptions (Controllers check, perhaps online checks...).
But getting 128K or more enable easily to pass the Compresssing/decompressing phase that can really slow the stuff a lot...

So many great games could have been even more awesome if they were actually designed for a disk version...could load more than once... or even very often...
But also some RPG were nightmares thx to a shitton of disk accesses...(or pseudo mouse interfaces with a joystick/keyboard too...lol...)
Yet even having 256K (from +512k) of compressed basic graphical/sound/cinematic Datas in almost static use is great to give a strong finished feeling...

Of course having +512K is great, but getting the management of the 128K version AND the 512K version may become a nighmare actually...

PC games in Dos era used to manage many sound or Video cards... so they were quite optimised as such...
From what I remember from my EGA PC...
EGA could get 640x350x16 on 64 palette... but we mostly got extended CGA...
so 320x200x16 with only the 16 total CGA palette...

Also some game were something like :
CGA
EGA
Tandy Graphic adaptator
Amstrad PC 1512
VGA

Beeper
sound Blaster
AdLib
Perhaps +1 or +2 obscure cards from the era, but actually adlib and sound blaster were the shit...

This perhaps also explain why such games were using ... so many disks...

Wezll, games on 2 HD disk were not that uncommon, or even on 2 720K disks...

Only few games managed to really use the EGA card (from the ones I had)
And the real EGA 640x350x16+full palette could actually be used to emuate VGA mode (320x200x256colours...) as in Might and magic...or even the VGA version of MonkeyIsland... (fond memory) wich used 320x200 mode but sucked in colours...lol...

Monkey Island had a specific CGA/EGA version...though...(but i got my hands only on the VGA/EGA version...lol)

But common CGA/EGA versions were often designed in a 320x200 mode (as MCGA...the 320x200x256...) and actually 2 versions... CGA/EGA and VGA... were released somethimes.


Those games were using perhaps 5 disks...(16 bit computer enable to manage 512k...) and my computer was 8-12mghz... yet full softwired as a CPC can be... and supported Harddisk drives too...


Also some games could run only if you had the +128extension (640K total) and PC used bank switching too...
Yet some game could get additionnal features with only 512k+128K (640K), not only 1 Meg...(this was a bit later...in the VGA-only era)


But this may be a way to understand how to manage the different Amstrad 8 bit configs...o rsupported extensions...

And Having +512k is certainly a way to pre-de-compress datas...and having access to more datas of course...
More musics/sounds, additionnal tiles perhaps....and so on...

Color lines manages the 64/128 versins in that it simply add a jukebox...like modern games...





The cartridge format is still hypothetic (my brother ordered a FPGA board recently, have to wait a month to get results...).
And it may not be that cheap actually...

But Disk in 3"1/2 (720K) is quite clearly available to the pimper (men who know the basics of electronics...) and 6128+ config is still good for the scene, not ?
As widely sold in France, so quite available in europe...

Well, in a Cheap Ram card available scenario... the 6128 config only has advantage of disk Drive availability....And on 6128PLUS...it's not that easy to find a proper internal DiskDrive.

Yet a perhaps a hard aspect is to manage the "minimum" config (be it 64K or 128K... but we know the 464+ is quite rare actually...) and support pseudo Extensions...(+512k so...)


But of course, such extension should be easily available, and not too expensive...
And we have to keep to actuallt a few additionnal stuffs.

Memory is a basic too, as loading modalities...(management of ROM loading, 3"1/2 Disks, Harddisc drive or whatever Disk emulation card or PC connection...)
Then what ? Graphical card is out of question... Amstrad CPC or Plus is enough.

Sound card ? we have actually a debate whether is it better to get a Digiblaster or an additionnal AY...(or even a SID or whatever else...lol...)... sort of...


Yet a cleverly designed Extension card based on Memory + Microcontroller+FPGA may enable some sort of universal re-programmable memory+sound card...

Why not.


Also Network is somewhat "could do better" on CPC...

Exemple, a pseudo internet/LAN-like AmstradCPC/Plus-friendly server system could enable multi-player games on the modern net.
With real Hardware.

It's not like a 4mghz CPU can't be well supplied in Datas nowadays...

So yeah, what we need :
--Sound + memory (as an easy basic...we know Amstrad was well into the Music OR sounds shit.... or even no sound at all because 64K designed game...lol...)
--Network (er...perhaps harder, certainly...need softwared solution AND Hardware...)
--conbtrollers (retro Joysticks, or adapters for existing modern paddles... or mouses...)
--Drives : HardDiscs...3"1/2, Disk emulator or whatever...


Most of those stuff can be designed in such way that a few modify enable Speccy or MSX or C64 compability, perhaps... (or whatever 8 bit or 16 bit computer).
Just need the right plugactually and a good programming.

Quote from: MacDeath on 03:44, 02 July 10
But Disk in 3"1/2 (720K) and 6128 config is still good for the scene, not ?

I agree, let's call this the MINIMUM, but let's also use bigger amount of RAM. Means, when there is more than 128 KB it shall be used, but not required.

Definitively, more RAM = more speed and less loadings. (sometime, better content)
But ... most CPC games only use 64K ... Then, try first to use 128K for 1000 users instead of 512K for 1. ;)

On the subject of networking, I would like to network three (or more) CPC's/PLUSes together to give me a 3 or 5 screen computer, giving left, forward and right views, if 5 machines are linked you could have a rear view screen and a map/ info screen, the program would be split to run on 3 or 5 machines, which would have 3 or 5 processors and 1.5MB or 2.5MB ram and 9 to 15 sound channels for surround sound.
In program development you could use 4 machines for program, graphics, sound and control, and for general use the ability to multi-task is also very useful.

Edit: I should have said that during program developement, the 5th machine would be the target machine so you can see how the program runs in real time, the ability to control this machines execution and memory contents is achieved via a multiface type of control via the network from the control computer.

Oh, and the sound channels will also have 3-5 noise channels, bringing the total to 20 channels.

Quote from: steve on 16:13, 02 July 10
On the subject of networking, I would like to network three (or more) CPC's/PLUSes together to give me a 3 or 5 screen computer, giving left, forward and right views, if 5 machines are linked you could have a rear view screen and a map/ info screen, the program would be split to run on 3 or 5 machines, which would have 3 or 5 processors and 1.5MB or 2.5MB ram and 9 to 15 sound channels for surround sound.
In program development you could use 4 machines for program, graphics, sound and control, and for general use the ability to multi-task is also very useful.

This is indeed a very good idea. And we have the needed RS485 network thanks to the CPC Booster+, further also the VN96 cards can be used (maybe slower, but cheaper).
What a pity that Inicron never released their NMI driven net-card for the CPC...

So, this expansion is taking shape nicely, we need:

An FPGA that will give PLUS features to the cpc with the possible exception of 4096 colours, it will include a blitter and network interface which can use DMA to access memory without slowing down the z80, (one processor has total control of all others), and there should be a blitter to speed up graphics.

A 512KB ram/RTC with battery backup.

If there could be an SD slot that would be good.

Sounds simple.

Unfortunately I do not have the knowledge to design this myself, but if someone else can then I would buy 5 units to connect 2 CPC 464's, 1 CPC 664, 1 CPC 6128 and one  464PLUS.

Dear steve,
it would be cool if you register.
Sadly we have some trouble with spam bots here.
So we disabled the guests permissions to post here.

http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php/topic,865.msg10661.html#new

Cheers.

So after this long discussion about the RAM that shall be used, which really had become off-topic, we should come back to the game ideas themselfs.

We also should focus on already existing hardware. For hardware ideas it would be great to open new threads, because my experience tells me they become very complex after a short time.

I would like to propose that we define the following as standard system for our game:

- CPC with 128 KB RAM and DS/DD 80 Track floppy (which means nearly every 3.5" or 5.25" floppy) with 0.7 MB format.

As expanded version (which shall be suppored by out games) the following add-one would be good:

- 576 KB RAM
- 128 KB ROM (EPROM, Pseudo-ROM provides by RRB, SF2, Ramcard, Jareks expansions...)

If you all agree, then we can go on...

I've come a bit late into this topic, and have only skimmed through the discussions but I feel it really should only be a choice between -

1) Normal CPC 128k - 3" disk

Or

2) 464+ 3" disk or cart - the latter to allow the opportunity for someone to burn to cart to run on a GX4000


I don't see the point in making a new game that will only work for the vast majority via emulators, its a very nice idea to have it run using more than 128k memory and other gizmos but then what's the point? I have no need anymore to go out and buy more memory, hard disks or whatever, even a 3.5" drive which is hard to come by for my 6128+ (my primary machine I use) and will cost you £40+ from Ebay if you're not a dab hand with electronics. The challenge is to write good games on the existing hardware or platform that we have to work with (eg Orion Prime), otherwise only the few will benefit and the rest of us can be dazzled via emulators. But then we might as well re-evaluate old games that were too slow by putting the speed up to 200% and going 'hey this is a good game now!'

Saying that, and slightly contradicting myself, I would love to see a proper new Plus only game as I feel there's very little out there that makes use of the extended features. R-Type would be freaking sweet with hardware scrolling and sprites, and DMA sound!

Sorry to be again a bit off-topic.

QuoteAnd we have the needed RS485 network thanks to the CPC Booster+, further   also the VN96 cards can be used (maybe slower, but cheaper).
What a   pity that Inicron never released their NMI driven net-card for the   CPC...

CPC Booster+ is perhaps a bit old technology nowaday, I mean it seems to use old kind of components and being a swissknife extension, too many specific stuffs to be a real standard.

Only the network aspects seems really usefull to me, of course many of the additionnal features are cool...but may also be generated with simpler Hardwares...


From what I'm thinking about :

(http://www.beis.de/Elektronik/DPLCM/FPGA_930.jpg)
(http://www.easyfpga.com/Products/EZ1CUSB/Images/ez1cusb_3d-small.jpg)

FGPA "developpment boards"...
Those are generic simple boards with a FPGA (various sizes and specs...) or whatever constructor standards/brands/names... and generic connectors.

Many of those include a plug to program it with a PC computer, some of them needing a USB converter (or whatever), other not...
Also some of those cards include more or less Memory, RAM or ROM like, or even both.

And basic first models are not that expensive, yet the FPGA may be quite smal actually...well, small for nowaday's standards...but compaired to a 1990 machine, it's still enormous.

Price starts at something like 15€uros...(add shipping fees, which may then easily double this...)

Such ones can't enable to put a "one-chip" full CPC per exemple (biggers can most probably...) but may enable enough speed and memory and "gates/programable stuff" to enable a lot of usefull extensions or functions as a CPC extension.

All we have to get :
--5V compatible models (there are some)
--adaptators and connectics (mostly to connect into the extension port, or other stuffs...).
--programs for them so we can put what we can/want...

A basic one with memory can most probably emulate RAM/ROM extension... and a lot of basic functions  :

Mathematical, perhaps AY additionnal soundchip emulation, Blitter, networking stuff...
Or course Sound features would perhaps need some amplification stuff... and so on...

So a common library of said functions would enable to use a large variety of such stuff as universal Extensions for CPC.



If you look at Symbiface per exemple, it's a custom FPGA based card (2 FPGA if I remember well), plus connectics and some additionnal specific stuffs (Realtime clock) that are not always that usefull in Gamemaking...
Good to put a CPC at PC standards (mouse, clock, HDD and CD-ROM....) but the mundane average gamer don't need all that actually.

Lack of mouse can be treated with a specific Keyboard+Joystik interface... and There are actually few Gamewise application for realtime clock... or except so when you save games in a RPG it tells you when you saved...lol... or when you burst the high score.


Finding the proper model of one of those, cheap, 5V-compatible and powerfull enough, then designing the correct protocol, a little library of basic functions, and conectics design...

Getting common purchase may also enable to reduce the price, as such stuff are expensive when bought in a single unit.... (High shipping fee...)


And then no real need to get a custom stuff.... perhaps.

So, I guess I'm late to this discussion having only just started to re-explore the CPC scene following some rather unnecessary interventions by "real life", but I figured I'd throw my 2p into the pot nonetheless.

Quote from: ukmarkh on 12:25, 12 May 10
I don't think the Plus can do anything that the CPC can't do, apart from a bigger colour pallette. Anyone who's ever dabbled at programming a Plus game will tell you how ludicrous it is to implement hardware sprites.

Absolutely couldn't agree less. There is simply no way I could have done JSW+ without hardware sprites, for example (and that really stresses them). They don't make things Gameboy easy by any means, but they confer a massive advantage. As does the hardware scrolling if you don't gimp yourself by trying to retain compatability with the standard CPC models.

Which brings up the "Prehistorik 2" factor - it's an awesome game, I love it to bits. And the plus version is nice. But it's not great. It's got snap-scrolling where it could have been pixel smooth, the graphics are tweaked so as not to look awful when rendered using the standard palette. It is, unquestionably, a standard CPC game with some plus features bolted on. Compare and contrast with Robocop 2, which oozes a level of quality that simply couldn't be reproduced on the standard hardware (even if the gameplay is a bit dull). Do you honestly think Robocop 2 would have looked anywhere near as good if the design spec had said it also had to downgrade gracefully on standard hardware? I think not.

As to machine specs, I'd say 128K and a disc drive is a reasonable spec. If you haven't got a machine that can handle that, you can pick one up on ebay relatively cheaply or just use an emulator. Expecting people to find 512K ram packs is a lot less practical and, to be brutally honest, there are few games that would benefit from it that couldn't equally well multiload from disc. Of course you could just let everyone use an emulator, but at that point it might just as well be a PC title.

If you're going for the Plus range, then 128K is pretty much essential, a 64K machine just does not cut it unless you are running from cart. I'd love to see new carts so I could also play them on my GX, but unless someone produces a cheap cart emulator using SD cards or something (maybe I've missed one??) then it's really not going to be a terribly practical idea for most people so you're back to effectively making an emulator-only game again.

Hey! Welcome Andy mate! ...and let the flame begin :D

PS Do you have a webpage for your games? The link is missing on the Wiki...

Quote from: MacDeath on 09:23, 16 July 10
CPC Booster+ is perhaps a bit old technology nowaday, I mean it seems to use old kind of components and being a swissknife extension, too many specific stuffs to be a real standard.

Only the network aspects seems really usefull to me, of course many of the additionnal features are cool...but may also be generated with simpler Hardwares...

Well, I appreciate your oppinion, but... (There must follow a but you know?  ??? ;D )

Aehm, the CPC-Booster+ was probably sold in 50 or more pieces, so it _IS_ already a standard. Hope that other hardware developpers will not make anything different regarding I/O addresses. Sure - you're right - it's a kind of swiss knife and not every feature will be used by every program, coder or game. But thats not the point.

The CPC-Booster+ is cheap to get, it's powerfull and it is quite modern. You can't do everything the CPC-B+ can do with an FPGA, because FPGA is just a better logic IC, nothing else. F. e. it will not allow you networking or so on.

The ATmega16 in the CPC-Booster+ can be replaced by the ATmega32, which is still quit modern and also powerfull.

I wish I would have more time to deal with the CPC-Booster+. However you can look in the FutureView II (basics) and IV (source codes) to get some bits (not bytes!) more of information.

As you see, I like the CPC-Booster+ ;-)

Quote from: andycadley on 12:24, 24 July 10
Absolutely couldn't agree less. There is simply no way I could have done JSW+ without hardware sprites, for example (and that really stresses them). They don't make things Gameboy easy by any means, but they confer a massive advantage. As does the hardware scrolling if you don't gimp yourself by trying to retain compatability with the standard CPC models.

If you're going for the Plus range, then 128K is pretty much essential, a 64K machine just does not cut it unless you are running from cart. I'd love to see new carts so I could also play them on my GX, but unless someone produces a cheap cart emulator using SD cards or something (maybe I've missed one??) then it's really not going to be a terribly practical idea for most people so you're back to effectively making an emulator-only game again.

I totally agree!

Quote from: andycadley on 12:24, 24 July 10
If you're going for the Plus range, then 128K is pretty much essential, a 64K machine just does not cut it unless you are running from cart. I'd love to see new carts so I could also play them on my GX, but unless someone produces a cheap cart emulator using SD cards or something (maybe I've missed one??) then it's really not going to be a terribly practical idea for most people so you're back to effectively making an emulator-only game again.

I tend to think that hardware will follow software in relation to the Plus. If there were a number of new Cart games that are only available for emulators some bright scammer will come along and find a way to put them on carts to extract high amounts of euros out of some gullable ebayer. Actually I'd love to see Fluff put on Cart. Guess that disprove my theory :P

Quote from: Gryzor on 09:31, 26 July 10
PS Do you have a webpage for your games? The link is missing on the Wiki...

Er, nope. I kind of figured webpages were out of fashion these days, what with all these crazy blogs and stuff. I can't even find one of those cool 'Under Construction' animated gifs that all great webpages used to have.  ;)

Quote from: Trebmint on 19:31, 26 July 10
I tend to think that hardware will follow software in relation to the Plus. If there were a number of new Cart games that are only available for emulators some bright scammer will come along and find a way to put them on carts to extract high amounts of euros out of some gullable ebayer. Actually I'd love to see Fluff put on Cart. Guess that disprove my theory :P

You're probably right, I guess I was kinda hoping that with all the cart images available that day may have come. Developing cart software when you can't try it out on the real thing is a bit of a pain. FWIW I'd love to see Fluff put on cart too, maybe it's needs a remixed cart release with some bonus levels or something.

Quote from: Trebmint on 19:31, 26 July 10

I tend to think that hardware will follow software in relation to the Plus. If there were a number of new Cart games that are only available for emulators some bright scammer will come along and find a way to put them on carts to extract high amounts of euros out of some gullable ebayer. Actually I'd love to see Fluff put on Cart. Guess that disprove my theory :P

Well, you already can buy a $10 Burnin Rubber Cartridge, replace or reburn the EPROM with whatever content you like, give it a nice label and then sell it on ebay for L (goddamn, I hate american keyboards!!!) 415 UK Pounds or even more. But nobody did it up to now...
Think people who want to make money (as only sense of being alive...) will probably not work with the CPC. Let's hope...

@Andy: well, could you upload them here as attachments at least?

Oh also, I found a GIF for you :D

Hehe. I was only half serious. I've had to trawl through all my old backup cds to see if I can find stuff. Once I've got something worth having, I'll try and figure out this wiki editing and stuff and pop something up there. And now, back to your regularly scheduled thread....

Quote from: andycadley on 20:32, 27 July 10
Hehe. I was only half serious. I've had to trawl through all my old backup cds to see if I can find stuff. Once I've got something worth having, I'll try and figure out this wiki editing and stuff and pop something up there. And now, back to your regularly scheduled thread....

I just stumbled on to one of your pages, looking for good CPC-scrollers - XeO3-CPC. What happend to that project?

Quote from: ivarf on 19:34, 28 July 10

I just stumbled on to one of your pages, looking for good CPC-scrollers - XeO3-CPC. What happend to that project?

This project is very much alive!!

There will be more news in the near future..

/Ygdrazil

Quote from: ivarf on 19:34, 28 July 10

I just stumbled on to one of your pages, looking for good CPC-scrollers - XeO3-CPC. What happend to that project?

Life very much got in the way of CPC coding and at some point I noticed someone else was doing a version that seemed to have got a lot further. Mine was still in the concept code and some roughly sketched out plans based on what documentation there was on the Plus4 version. I can't even remember what the login for the blog is anymore.

As it is, I've ordered one of those swishy HxC SD card drives for my 6128+ as well as a cheap eprom programmer/eraser and some M27C1001s so i can hopefully hack a GX4000 cart tester. Then the real fun begins again.  :)

A shame really, I think your CPC-XEO3 project was quite different to ours as it targeted the "plain" CPC. It would have been interesting to see if its possible to make  XEO3 work without any ASIC stuff!

Also its doubtfull if our version will qualify as a 'XEO3', it will be a horizontal shooter for sure. Failing to become 'official' we had to design a lot of graphics from the ground up ...

We still lack any sound at all!

/Ygdrazil

Quote from: andycadley on 22:28, 28 July 10
Life very much got in the way of CPC coding and at some point I noticed someone else was doing a version that seemed to have got a lot further. Mine was still in the concept code and some roughly sketched out plans based on what documentation there was on the Plus4 version. I can't even remember what the login for the blog is anymore.

As it is, I've ordered one of those swishy HxC SD card drives for my 6128+ as well as a cheap eprom programmer/eraser and some M27C1001s so i can hopefully hack a GX4000 cart tester. Then the real fun begins again.  :)