R-Type X CPC

[TFM]

Well this kind of thing already exists in a form in the symbiface 2 hardware. (512k expansion ram, and 512k expansion rom I think).

The only thing that is directly missing is the ability to map one of the roms so that it activates instead of the OS rom.

Wrong, autostart is no problem. FutureOS f.e. can do this if desired.

[TFM]

So mostly, 128K only added loading facilities or additionnal sounds ?

But never additionnal graphics, Gameplay or better speed ?

Very true and very sad. This is the path we will NOT follow. We will use the 128 KB for a gain in speed, better gfx, better sound and better gameplay.

These before mentioned commercial games did it bad, because, they have been commercial and therefore didn't use enough efforts (= pay money to the programmers) to make it real good. However, at least they used the additional RAM.

A cartridge can overcome the need for more than 128 KB RAM. But the 128 KB is (for me) the ultimative mimimum requirement.

If somebody still want to use a 64 KB configuration... well, see what they produce that way. Nice but nothing else. In my eyes nothing worth being mentioned at all. Yes, I tell some hard words here, but we are living in era of the 6128 now and not 464 any longer!

[TFM]

I voted for "My CPC has more than 64k ram".
But one important thing is missing here:
It should be also the point "My CPC has 128k ram" because I don't have an expanded CPC.
And I think, many other people, too.

This point has been added :-)

[Gryzor]

The poll is still not correct. There should be three options: 64kb, 128kb, more than 128kb. As it is it makes little sense...

[ukmarkh]

Well, let me talk about germany. 90% have 576 KB CPCs. Hope you enjoyed football today as much as I did ;-)

I think it was more a case of England throwing it away... failing at the basics. But yes, Germany did play well and I hope they go on to the final, it was great to watch them playing like we want England to play.

[TFM]

The poll is still not correct. There should be three options: 64kb, 128kb, more than 128kb. As it is it makes little sense...

Aehm, that's what we have now, with slightly different words.

[steve]

14 people have indicated that they have more than 64kb, but you don't know how many of them have 128kb, nor how many have more than 128kb, maybe time for a new vote?
And add in how many use a monochrome monitor, so programmers can decide if they can write for colour only.

[Devilmarkus]

http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php/topic,824.0.html

[TFM]

14 people have indicated that they have more than 64kb, but you don't know how many of them have 128kb, nor how many have more than 128kb, maybe time for a new vote?
And add in how many use a monochrome monitor, so programmers can decide if they can write for colour only.

Ok, can you create the poll please?

[TFM]

http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php/topic,824.0.html

For this new poll you should adjust the value 512 to 576 in the last line.


Ok, everybody having 128 KB or more!!! please vote agian.


BTW: These 64 KB guys go to every vote, so 10 votes for 576 KB should be addet in principle ;-)

[Gryzor]

Aehm, that's what we have now, with slightly different words.

Of course not. Your points should be:

=64k
=128k
>128k

at least. Instead you have
=64k
>64k
=128k.

Doesn't make any sense.

[TFM]

Of course not. Your points should be:

=64k
=128k
>128k

at least. Instead you have
=64k
>64k
=128k.

Doesn't make any sense.

It does!

Use mathematics ;-) ">128k" = ">64k" - "=128k"

Or just take a look at the other poll...


Guess, here we can come back to the games-ideas itself. Let's keep in mind, the 128 KB solution would be the right thing.

[Gryzor]

Er... how can you say this? It makes absolutely no sense -and you're a scientist, too!

(apologies, there is no 'belongs' symbol so I'm using the euro symbol)
128k € (64...)

Therefore the third option is superfluous and falls within the limits of the second option. So you only have to options, 64k and more than 64k.

One semi-logical way to read it would be:
a.64k
b. 64k<mem<128k
c. =128k

But then you have two problems: there is nothing between 64 and 128k anyway, and you don't cover memories more than 128k!

It just dumbfounds me how you equate >128k with 128k and you don't see the difference. So I guess that for everyone who has 576k it's the same as 128k. God.

[ukmarkh]

It should probably read:


A. 64K?
B. 128K?
C. 128K + Extra memory

Er... how can you say this? It makes absolutely no sense -and you're a scientist, too!

(apologies, there is no 'belongs' symbol so I'm using the euro symbol)
128k € (64...)

Therefore the third option is superfluous and falls within the limits of the second option. So you only have to options, 64k and more than 64k.

One semi-logical way to read it would be:
a.64k
b. 64k<mem<128k
c. =128k

But then you have two problems: there is nothing between 64 and 128k anyway, and you don't cover memories more than 128k!

It just dumbfounds me how you equate >128k with 128k and you don't see the difference. So I guess that for everyone who has 576k it's the same as 128k. God.

[Gryzor]

Yup! As I said:

=64k
=128k
>128k

[TFM]

Maybe this one pleases you now 

[MacDeath]

Well, having more than 128K may means, if modern cards are useds... +512K... cause well, what the point in +256K nowaday, as only +512K chip may be easily found...

but more seriously, is someone actually selling kits to craft a +512k simple card for CPC/Plus ?

From where I leave, it's quite difficult to get electronnical components directly, have to order on Internet... and getting a good price, we all know that unless you buy 50 components minimum, you get anally raped...

And this can fastly go expensive...


May I ask if one of you has access to production equipment or really interesting prices on chips or printed cards ?

But a complete 6128+ with screen may cost only 30€ + car travel... in France.



Also back to topic...
What would be an engine for an horizontal Shooter R-Type like, able to handle +512K Ram AND the 128K minimum ? on a CPC+ ?

Actually, the +512K woud mean less loading times... Not "less" but less often... so a more fluid gaming experience once it is loaded...



More cinematics or even aditionnal sounds or graphic tiles/sprites... but real Gameplay has to stick on 64K... or more specifically 64k+64K... or 48K+64K with compression ?

As we know the Z80 can only handle 64K at the same time, minus the Video Ram sometimes...(50Hz) and standards interuptions (Controllers check, perhaps online checks...).
But getting 128K or more enable easily to pass the Compresssing/decompressing phase that can really slow the stuff a lot...

So many great games could have been even more awesome if they were actually designed for a disk version...could load more than once... or even very often...
But also some RPG were nightmares thx to a shitton of disk accesses...(or pseudo mouse interfaces with a joystick/keyboard too...lol...)
Yet even having 256K (from +512k) of compressed basic graphical/sound/cinematic Datas in almost static use is great to give a strong finished feeling...

Of course having +512K is great, but getting the management of the 128K version AND the 512K version may become a nighmare actually...

PC games in Dos era used to manage many sound or Video cards... so they were quite optimised as such...
From what I remember from my EGA PC...
EGA could get 640x350x16 on 64 palette... but we mostly got extended CGA...
so 320x200x16 with only the 16 total CGA palette...

Also some game were something like :
CGA
EGA
Tandy Graphic adaptator
Amstrad PC 1512
VGA

Beeper
sound Blaster
AdLib
Perhaps +1 or +2 obscure cards from the era, but actually adlib and sound blaster were the shit...

This perhaps also explain why such games were using ... so many disks...

Wezll, games on 2 HD disk were not that uncommon, or even on 2 720K disks...

Only few games managed to really use the EGA card (from the ones I had)
And the real EGA 640x350x16+full palette could actually be used to emuate VGA mode (320x200x256colours...) as in Might and magic...or even the VGA version of MonkeyIsland... (fond memory) wich used 320x200 mode but sucked in colours...lol...

Monkey Island had a specific CGA/EGA version...though...(but i got my hands only on the VGA/EGA version...lol)

But common CGA/EGA versions were often designed in a 320x200 mode (as MCGA...the 320x200x256...) and actually 2 versions... CGA/EGA and VGA... were released somethimes.


Those games were using perhaps 5 disks...(16 bit computer enable to manage 512k...) and my computer was 8-12mghz... yet full softwired as a CPC can be... and supported Harddisk drives too...


Also some games could run only if you had the +128extension (640K total) and PC used bank switching too...
Yet some game could get additionnal features with only 512k+128K (640K), not only 1 Meg...(this was a bit later...in the VGA-only era)


But this may be a way to understand how to manage the different Amstrad 8 bit configs...o rsupported extensions...

And Having +512k is certainly a way to pre-de-compress datas...and having access to more datas of course...
More musics/sounds, additionnal tiles perhaps....and so on...

Color lines manages the 64/128 versins in that it simply add a jukebox...like modern games...





The cartridge format is still hypothetic (my brother ordered a FPGA board recently, have to wait a month to get results...).
And it may not be that cheap actually...

But Disk in 3"1/2 (720K) is quite clearly available to the pimper (men who know the basics of electronics...) and 6128+ config is still good for the scene, not ?
As widely sold in France, so quite available in europe...

Well, in a Cheap Ram card available scenario... the 6128 config only has advantage of disk Drive availability....And on 6128PLUS...it's not that easy to find a proper internal DiskDrive.

Yet a perhaps a hard aspect is to manage the "minimum" config (be it 64K or 128K... but we know the 464+ is quite rare actually...) and support pseudo Extensions...(+512k so...)


But of course, such extension should be easily available, and not too expensive...
And we have to keep to actuallt a few additionnal stuffs.

Memory is a basic too, as loading modalities...(management of ROM loading, 3"1/2 Disks, Harddisc drive or whatever Disk emulation card or PC connection...)
Then what ? Graphical card is out of question... Amstrad CPC or Plus is enough.

Sound card ? we have actually a debate whether is it better to get a Digiblaster or an additionnal AY...(or even a SID or whatever else...lol...)... sort of...


Yet a cleverly designed Extension card based on Memory + Microcontroller+FPGA may enable some sort of universal re-programmable memory+sound card...

Why not.


Also Network is somewhat "could do better" on CPC...

Exemple, a pseudo internet/LAN-like AmstradCPC/Plus-friendly server system could enable multi-player games on the modern net.
With real Hardware.

It's not like a 4mghz CPU can't be well supplied in Datas nowadays...

So yeah, what we need :
--Sound + memory (as an easy basic...we know Amstrad was well into the Music OR sounds shit.... or even no sound at all because 64K designed game...lol...)
--Network (er...perhaps harder, certainly...need softwared solution AND Hardware...)
--conbtrollers (retro Joysticks, or adapters for existing modern paddles... or mouses...)
--Drives : HardDiscs...3"1/2, Disk emulator or whatever...


Most of those stuff can be designed in such way that a few modify enable Speccy or MSX or C64 compability, perhaps... (or whatever 8 bit or 16 bit computer).
Just need the right plugactually and a good programming.

[TFM]

But Disk in 3"1/2 (720K) and 6128 config is still good for the scene, not ?

I agree, let's call this the MINIMUM, but let's also use bigger amount of RAM. Means, when there is more than 128 KB it shall be used, but not required.

[TotO]

Definitively, more RAM = more speed and less loadings. (sometime, better content)
But ... most CPC games only use 64K ... Then, try first to use 128K for 1000 users instead of 512K for 1.

[steve]

On the subject of networking, I would like to network three (or more) CPC's/PLUSes together to give me a 3 or 5 screen computer, giving left, forward and right views, if 5 machines are linked you could have a rear view screen and a map/ info screen, the program would be split to run on 3 or 5 machines, which would have 3 or 5 processors and 1.5MB or 2.5MB ram and 9 to 15 sound channels for surround sound.
In program development you could use 4 machines for program, graphics, sound and control, and for general use the ability to multi-task is also very useful.

[steve]

Edit: I should have said that during program developement, the 5th machine would be the target machine so you can see how the program runs in real time, the ability to control this machines execution and memory contents is achieved via a multiface type of control via the network from the control computer.

Oh, and the sound channels will also have 3-5 noise channels, bringing the total to 20 channels.

[TFM]

On the subject of networking, I would like to network three (or more) CPC's/PLUSes together to give me a 3 or 5 screen computer, giving left, forward and right views, if 5 machines are linked you could have a rear view screen and a map/ info screen, the program would be split to run on 3 or 5 machines, which would have 3 or 5 processors and 1.5MB or 2.5MB ram and 9 to 15 sound channels for surround sound.
In program development you could use 4 machines for program, graphics, sound and control, and for general use the ability to multi-task is also very useful.

This is indeed a very good idea. And we have the needed RS485 network thanks to the CPC Booster+, further also the VN96 cards can be used (maybe slower, but cheaper).
What a pity that Inicron never released their NMI driven net-card for the CPC...

[steve]

So, this expansion is taking shape nicely, we need:

An FPGA that will give PLUS features to the cpc with the possible exception of 4096 colours, it will include a blitter and network interface which can use DMA to access memory without slowing down the z80, (one processor has total control of all others), and there should be a blitter to speed up graphics.

A 512KB ram/RTC with battery backup.

If there could be an SD slot that would be good.

Sounds simple.

Unfortunately I do not have the knowledge to design this myself, but if someone else can then I would buy 5 units to connect 2 CPC 464's, 1 CPC 664, 1 CPC 6128 and one  464PLUS.

[Devilmarkus]

Dear steve,
it would be cool if you register.
Sadly we have some trouble with spam bots here.
So we disabled the guests permissions to post here.

http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php/topic,865.msg10661.html#new

Cheers.

[TFM]

So after this long discussion about the RAM that shall be used, which really had become off-topic, we should come back to the game ideas themselfs.

We also should focus on already existing hardware. For hardware ideas it would be great to open new threads, because my experience tells me they become very complex after a short time.

I would like to propose that we define the following as standard system for our game:

- CPC with 128 KB RAM and DS/DD 80 Track floppy (which means nearly every 3.5" or 5.25" floppy) with 0.7 MB format.

As expanded version (which shall be suppored by out games) the following add-one would be good:

- 576 KB RAM
- 128 KB ROM (EPROM, Pseudo-ROM provides by RRB, SF2, Ramcard, Jareks expansions...)

If you all agree, then we can go on...