Retro Asylum 8 Bit Wars

[RetroClarence]

Hi all


I'm Chris, co-host of the Retro Asylum.


If you follow our podcast, you may have heard that we will shortly be staging the fourth 8-Bit Wars.  This is where we choose games which show off the best the 8-bit computers have to offer and let the platforms battle it out to be the best.  In the past, a host has been nominated to represent a platform and then games were chosen which were common across the platforms.


This time, we are doing it slightly different.  We are going to pitch the best the system had to offer in particular genres against the best the other platforms had to offer in those genres.  The five genres chosen are:


Shooter
Platform
Arcade adventure
Racing / driving
Fighting / beat 'em up


I will be representing the Amstrad CPC 464, going up against the Speccy (Dean Swain), C64 (Matt Wilsher) and Atari 8 bit (Steve Erickson). 


So, what do you think is the best the CPC has to offer in those five genres?


Chris

[ivarf]

I wonder where Pinball Dreams would fit...


Best car game so far, Wec Le Mans.
Fighting game  - Renegade
Arcade adventure - Sorcery


3D isometric ?
3D shooter?
Adventure game?

[reidrac]

Shooter
Platform
Arcade adventure
Racing / driving
Fighting / beat 'em up

The question here is: are you restricted to back in the day?

My favs, or the titles I think that would be good contenders BUT only from the commercial era of the CPC; so this excludes homebrew titles that may be superior to some of these.

Shooter: Gryzor (gun & run is a shooter, isn't it?)
Platform: The Addams Family
Arcade adventure: Prince of Persia (it HAD release on the CPC BITD)
Racing / driving: Chase HQ
Fighting / beat 'em up: Golden Axe (because is the best version of all 8-bit systems on your list)

I think all these are 64K, so CPC 464.

My 2 cents!

[RetroClarence]

Sorry, I should have been clear: it's only commercially released during the system's life that counts.  So, unfortunately, Reidrac, I can't choose your or any other homebrew / indie games (shame, I'd have won for sure  ). 


Chris

[reidrac]

Sorry, I should have been clear: it's only commercially released during the system's life that counts.  So, unfortunately, Reidrac, I can't choose your or any other homebrew / indie games (shame, I'd have won for sure  ). 

ALL systems have homebrew, may be there's material for a 8-bit wars homebrew edition

Anyway, my list is OK I think (again: double check all the games are 64K). I'm sure other people here can offer other suggestions.

[GUNHED]

...  We are going to pitch the best the system had to offer in particular genres against the best the other platforms had to offer in those genres.  The five genres chosen are:

Shooter

You could take a look at Cyber Chicken 

Sorry, I should have been clear: it's only commercially released during the system's life that counts.  So, unfortunately, Reidrac, I can't choose your or any other homebrew / indie games (shame, I'd have won for sure    ). 
Chris

Uups? Why that? So the result will be very imbalanced. For assessing the 'best' system it's IMHO mandatory to take scene productions in account. 

ALL systems have homebrew, may be there's material for a 8-bit wars homebrew edition Anyway, my list is OK I think (again: double check all the games are 64K). I'm sure other people here can offer other suggestions.

Why to limit to 64 KB? The C128 for example has 128 KB RAM too. In CPC world most great games do use 128 KB.

[reidrac]

If this is like previous episodes, they stick to the base models. And mind that the system that suffers most from that is the speccy (48K and beeper only).

@GUNHED honestly, I don't think they're going to change *their rules* because you complain here. It would be more useful if you could suggest good games on each category keeping in mind: from the commercial era of the CPC and must run on a stock 464.

[GUNHED]

Well, I don't complain. I do share my opinion to make things better.

[ivarf]

Uups? Why that? So the result will be very imbalanced. For assessing the 'best' system it's IMHO mandatory to take scene productions in account. 

Why to limit to 64 KB? The C128 for example has 128 KB RAM too. In CPC world most great games do use 128 KB.

If you don't include newer productions, the CPC looks like a weaker computer than it really is. People that like to downtalk the CPC likes this.

[reidrac]

If you don't include newer productions, the CPC looks like a weaker computer than it really is. People that like to downtalk the CPC likes this.

I think that is because they don't know the system.

The Retro Asylum has run 3 episodes of "8-bit wars". If you haven't listen to them, may be you should: you would be surprised! A different Chris represented the CPC and I don't always agree with his approach (let's say  ), but in any case they are good fun.

Actually, the reason why I bought a CPC and started making games for it was because the first 8-bi wars (and the CPC special they run shortly after it). So there you are. Definitely not misrepresenting the system, even if some of the most recent games are probably the best on the system.

[sigh]

Shooter - Sonic Boom
Platformer - Prince of Peria
Arcade Adventure - Super Cauldron/Back To The Golden Age
Racing/Driving - Martechs Nigel Mansell
Fighting/Beatemup - Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles

[reidrac]

Fighting/Beatemup - Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles

Now that you mention that one, probably even better than Golden Axe :+1:

[sigh]

Now that you mention that one, probably even better than Golden Axe :+1:

I was trying to find games that were better on the cpc than their counterparts:

TMNT was nicer on the CPC than on the other 8 bits.
Martechs Nigel Mansell was also better than the spectrum version, though I haven't seen the c64 version.
Super Cauldron is a large adventure of a game with decent scrolling and interesting coding techniques such as overscan.
Prince of Persia on the CPC was the only version commercially released. Good game.

I'm having trouble in regards to shooter. I put Sonic Boom - but the C64 version looks to play nicer and has music...

[sigh]

I think I would choose Operation Wolf for Shooter:

Shooter - Operation Wolf
Platformer - Prince of Persia
Arcade Adventure - Super Cauldron
Racing/Driving - Martechs Nigel Mansell
Fighting/Beatemup - Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles

[reidrac]

I was trying to find games that were better on the cpc than their counterparts:

See, that's the thing! They have changed the format, so each game won't compete with the same game in other systems but the same genre.

So I think TMNT (or Golden Axe) are excellent games on the CPC on their genre, but they won't be compared with the same game in the other systems. I agree that psychologically it has impact if the game is the best of all the 4 8-bit systems

I wouldn't say Prince of Persia is a platformer, for me it was more like an adventure, or less "pure" platformer than for example The Addams Family (that is hard but it is an excellent platforms game on the CPC).

I thought Super Cauldron was a 128K game! That could go as platform game, actually.

[robcfg]

Under which category would be nice to add Trantor or Savage, which are great examples of what the CPC could do at the time?

[sigh]

See, that's the thing! They have changed the format, so each game won't compete with the same game in other systems but the same genre.

So I think TMNT (or Golden Axe) are excellent games on the CPC on their genre, but they won't be compared with the same game in the other systems. I agree that psychologically it has impact if the game is the best of all the 4 8-bit systems

I wouldn't say Prince of Persia is a platformer, for me it was more like an adventure, or less "pure" platformer than for example The Addams Family (that is hard but it is an excellent platforms game on the CPC).

I thought Super Cauldron was a 128K game! That could go as platform game, actually.

Super Cauldron was also a cassette game on the 464 too. Super Cauldron had a lot of secret areas and could also work as a platformer too.
I definitely see POP as a platformer as it was all about distance, timing and positioning of your jumps on ledges/platforms and falling to your death if your jumps weren't on point.

[Shaun M. Neary]

Hi all


I'm Chris, co-host of the Retro Asylum.


If you follow our podcast, you may have heard that we will shortly be staging the fourth 8-Bit Wars.  This is where we choose games which show off the best the 8-bit computers have to offer and let the platforms battle it out to be the best.  In the past, a host has been nominated to represent a platform and then games were chosen which were common across the platforms.


This time, we are doing it slightly different.  We are going to pitch the best the system had to offer in particular genres against the best the other platforms had to offer in those genres.  The five genres chosen are:


Shooter
Platform
Arcade adventure
Racing / driving
Fighting / beat 'em up


I will be representing the Amstrad CPC 464, going up against the Speccy (Dean Swain), C64 (Matt Wilsher) and Atari 8 bit (Steve Erickson). 


So, what do you think is the best the CPC has to offer in those five genres?


Chris

Hi Chris,
I'll bite on this one.
Shooter: Tied - Classic era: X-Out (US Gold) / Modern era: R-Type 128k remake (Easter Egg)

X-Out takes a bit of a hit for having little or no background, unfair as it was only written with 64k in mind. But it's fast! I always find myself coming back to it.
The 128K remake of R-Type is an absolute triumph on the CPC. While not arcade perfect (especially the end of level 2's 'snake movement', it's still a belter of a game that demonstrates all of the Amstrads capabilities. And even better yet, it didn't require a Plus.

Platform: Rainbow Islands

I wasn't overly a massive fan of this one in the arcade. But when I loaded it (from tape!) in 1990, I kept going back to it again and again. I think I've only ever finished Monster Island once, and that was last year. My attention span isn't what it once was now that I'm a world weary 44 year old now though!
Arcade adventure: Fantasy World Dizzy

Way too many to choose from, but this one gets the nod from me because it introduced me into a whole new world of gaming. Platforming while having to use my brain to solve puzzles. That's something that's almost a given in todays games (look, there are elements of that in Rockstars modern games today!), but I hadn't played any Dizzy games prior to 1990. So this blew my mind at the time, and people still talk about Dizzy to this very day. He's even on a UK stamp now!

Racing / driving: Chase HQ

Undisputed winner. While not a racer, but the speed, the colours, and even the speech if you're lucky enough to have 128k. I remember being terrified looking at the awful spectrum loading screen and not expecting much (this was before the Amstrad Action review, for whatever reason they were a couple of months late in getting their review copy and the game had already hit the shelves), and being pleasantly surprised when the final product loaded. I actually only finished it for the first time last year. Great feeling of achievement almost 30 years on.

Fighting / beat 'em up: Target Renegade

For me, another undisputed winner, but the music does tend to go very ropey on every level, the channels go out of sync. But it's a great one or two player beat 'em up, and it gets VERY challenging after you pass the first loop. I think I've managed two loops (by dumb luck!), and then got absolutely massacred on the third one.
There's my votes. Enjoy!

[Shaun M. Neary]

Uups? Why that? So the result will be very imbalanced. For assessing the 'best' system it's IMHO mandatory to take scene productions in account. 

Nah it's not. He's talking about a time when Amstrad were shifting units as a games machine.
I get where you're coming from, it's just not the direction his piece is going. And that's okay.

Sure, the Amstrad has had some stellar stuff since it's commercial heyday, but so have the other systems too (Crystal Kingdom Dizzy remake on the Speccy anyone?). It's a whole new territory and probably for a different podcast.

[sigh]

Hmmm - now I'm thinking that Donkey Kong is a good contender for platformer.

[SharkusMaximus]

Rick Dangerous or its sequel have to be contenders for either platform or arcade/adventure, while Barbarian lops the head off most fighting games (although Renegade might get a knee to the groin in first).

[Gryzor]

Damn that's a hard choice. Op Wolf is indeed a great choice for shooters, I think. PoP is definitely a platform - so many platforms in that one! But also indeed Rainbow Islands looks sublime.

Trantor looks great and very impressive, but is it a great game?

[sigh]

The thing I'm concerned about with these 8 bit Wars, is hearing the same old games (usual supects) which most of the Retro Asylum hosts are familiar with such as Gryzor, Renegade, Chase HQ etc. Of course these are great games, but it would be good to offer other alternatives which are just as good and introduce them to an audience that may not be familiar with the CPC. While I think Rick Dangerous is a good game - you hardly ever hear about Super Cauldon, due to it being delivered at the end of the CPC's life, as well as being a game that pushes hardware limits. This could make for good conversation for the podcast too, as the other contenders usually have to play the games their rivals have selected.

Chase HQ was already chosen in one of the earlier 8 bit wars if I remember correctly. Sure - we can vote it in again, but it's been spoken about countless of times and Xyphoe is probably sick of playing it by now . What about games like Super Cycle or Martech Nigel Mansell - which is probably one of the best, fastest and smoothest 8 bit formula 1 games?
Even with the games I chose in regards to platforming - Donkey Kong, was already selected in one of the previous episodes, so I have now changed my mind about it and will be looking to offer other alternatives.

[Shaun M. Neary]

Hmmm - now I'm thinking that Donkey Kong is a good contender for platformer.

Donkey Kong was so good for it's time. One of the earlier examples of overscan on the Amstrad.
So playable too, but so frustrating at times too.

I loved how the manual basically told you how to cheat the barrel stages though, sadly I discovered that *after* I spent weeks high score chasing! 

Rick Dangerous or its sequel have to be contenders for either platform or arcade/adventure, while Barbarian lops the head off most fighting games (although Renegade might get a knee to the groin in first).

Rick Dangerous is a good shout, I found the final level of the second way too difficult though.
Barbarian looks sounds and plays the part, but I also found it repetitive after a while. Once I finished it, it was rare that I went back to it.

[Shaun M. Neary]

Snipped this simply because I agreed with the first half!

Super Cycle is a bit of a one horse race though. It's bloody dire on the C64 and Speccy versions!

Chase HQ was already chosen in one of the earlier 8 bit wars if I remember correctly. Sure - we can vote it in again, but it's been spoken about countless of times and Xyphoe is probably sick of playing it by now . What about games like Super Cycle or Martech Nigel Mansell - which is probably one of the best, fastest and smoothest 8 bit formula 1 games?
Even with the games I chose in regards to platforming - Donkey Kong, was already selected in one of the previous episodes, so I have now changed my mind about it and will be looking to offer other alternatives.