Rick Dangerous (code is the exact same with different sprites, even has the same bugs)
Wonder Boy (Speccy code with slow flickering using C64 sprites!
Time Machine
Slightly Magic
Go play them! You'll see for yourself!
Heartbreaking to see how many opportunities have been wasted over the years. Yet bizarrely fascinating to compile into a list, indeed :laugh:
BTW, isn't the Laser Squad a Speccy port as well? You may consider to add it (if the list isn't exclusive for crappies of course. :) )
I can't believe I overlooked Time Machine. i think I had put that much yellow out of my mind probably.
Laser Squad, I think on account of just being utterly awesome, and they've done quite a bit of adjusting graphics to Mode 1, gets excluded (just)
It scares me the amount of speccy ports that get overlooked just because they've got redrawn graphics.
Maybe the topic should be changed to failed speccy port list.
Nodes Of Yesod (1986)
I really like this game (quite unknown) for its atmosphere, its music, and its gameplay which becomes interesting once you catch the mole. 👍
The playing field is huge.
Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 22:08, 05 December 23It scares me the amount of speccy ports that get overlooked just because they've got redrawn graphics.
Maybe the topic should be changed to failed speccy port list.
Very good point. I must admit, I'm a sucker for redrawn graphics.
Quote from: Typhon on 22:47, 05 December 23Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 22:08, 05 December 23It scares me the amount of speccy ports that get overlooked just because they've got redrawn graphics.
Maybe the topic should be changed to failed speccy port list.
Very good point. I must admit, I'm a sucker for redrawn graphics.
Oh don't get me wrong. Rick Dangerous is a legendary title, and I enjoyed Wonder Boy (check the avatar)
But a speccy port is a speccy port regardless.
I've never thought of Wonder Boy as a pure speccy port (unless you are referring to Super Wonderboy in Monster Land, which most definitely is).
Wonder Boy appears to be using a hardware scroll, though I don't have the skill or knowledge to confirm that.
Quote from: ervin on 02:18, 06 December 23I've never thought of Wonder Boy as a pure speccy port (unless you are referring to Super Wonderboy in Monster Land, which most definitely is).
Wonder Boy appears to be using a hardware scroll, though I don't have the skill or knowledge to confirm that.
On the outside it isn't, but has the same flickering and the same glitches as the Speccy version does. It's just masked by mode 1 C64 sprites. I've finished both from start to finish.
Monster Land is more blatant to the point that the Spectrum community used the CPC version to fix a bug in theirs where the dragon was indestructible!
Ah, interesting!
Looking at a vid of the speccy version of Wonderboy, the sprite movement does indeed look very very similar.
There is probably a heck of a lot of shared code/data for level layout, enemy AI etc.
Regarding Monster Land, that is an amazing bit of trivia!
It's nuts to think that the speccy version was released in that state, when the cpc version worked correctly!
Though I don't know how much time there was between the speccy and cpc releases.
Also, the speccy version is legitimately excellent. It looks very playable.
Pity that the cpc version seems to run at half the speed!
Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 22:08, 05 December 23It scares me the amount of speccy ports that get overlooked just because they've got redrawn graphics.
Maybe the topic should be changed to failed speccy port list.
I guess it depends on where you draw the line. There are genuinely good reasons for sharing the bulk of game logic between machines, so if it's not at "redrawn graphics" you start including everything.
Batman The Movie, RoboCop, Head over Heels, Chase HQ etc are all pretty polished titles that share the same code base with the Speccy.
I tend to consider anything with mostly monochrome graphics, or anything where all the sprites are one colour and the background monochrome as falling under the banner of being a lazy port. Reusing the graphics from the C64 can look bad, although it's at least a small effort to improve things so I'm not sure I'd consider quite the same.
Quote from: ervin on 05:09, 06 December 23Ah, interesting!
Looking at a vid of the speccy version of Wonderboy, the sprite movement does indeed look very very similar.
There is probably a heck of a lot of shared code/data for level layout, enemy AI etc.
Regarding Monster Land, that is an amazing bit of trivia!
It's nuts to think that the speccy version was released in that state, when the cpc version worked correctly!
Though I don't know how much time there was between the speccy and cpc releases.
Also, the speccy version is legitimately excellent. It looks very playable.
Pity that the cpc version seems to run at half the speed!
The CPC version had bugs of it's own, but not so much in the game.
Disk version was fine, but the tape loader often crashed and the relay locked up on random levels. It used to drive me insane. I eventually finished it once I found a decent disk image.
Quote from: andycadley on 09:42, 06 December 23Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 22:08, 05 December 23It scares me the amount of speccy ports that get overlooked just because they've got redrawn graphics.
Maybe the topic should be changed to failed speccy port list.
I tend to consider anything with mostly monochrome graphics, or anything where all the sprites are one colour and the background monochrome as falling under the banner of being a lazy port. Reusing the graphics from the C64 can look bad, although it's at least a small effort to improve things so I'm not sure I'd consider quite the same.
It wasn't just the re-used/redrawn graphics though. When you get similar flaws like flicker during movement (Wonder Boy) or enemies getting stuck (Rick Dangerous), the code rip is blatantly obvious. But as you said, there's a difference between a good Speccy port and a bad lazy one. :)
Quote from: poulette73 on 22:14, 05 December 23Nodes Of Yesod (1986)
Have to admit, the Speccy one is quite nice and bizarrely atmospheric. I hate the CPC port though. There're many things off with it.
Actually, I'm genuinely curious how Hard Drivin' somehow managed to miss this list? That was utterly Abysmal and why AA rated it as high as they did, I'll never know.
Stunt Car Racer came out a few months later to show us how it's really done!
I didn't include Hard Drivin because all the 8 bit versions are basically the same. That said, I agree with you on wondering what AA were smoking at the time.
I also went back and forth about the Dizzy games too. In the end, I decided for the same reason that most of them weren't Crap Speccy Ports - there was enough work done on them that they just about avoided the list. Seymour games on the other hand seemed to just fall in the Speccy Port enough criteria to be on the list.
The list is openly subjective, and I'm glad it has generated an interesting discussion and long may it continue. That said, if you object, I'll see you in the Playground at Breaktime.
Quote from: Typhon on 13:22, 06 December 23I also went back and forth about the Dizzy games too. In the end, I decided for the same reason that most of them weren't Crap Speccy Ports - there was enough work done on them that they just about avoided the list. Seymour games on the other hand seemed to just fall in the Speccy Port enough criteria to be on the list.
The list is openly subjective, and I'm glad it has generated an interesting discussion and long may it continue. That said, if you object, I'll see you in the Playground at Breaktime.
I do believe the Dizzy games were worked on the Amstrad first and then ported over to the Speccy, at least for the first four adventures. Not sure what happened once Big Red took over though, and that includes the Seymour Adventures.
Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 14:00, 06 December 23Quote from: Typhon on 13:22, 06 December 23I also went back and forth about the Dizzy games too. In the end, I decided for the same reason that most of them weren't Crap Speccy Ports - there was enough work done on them that they just about avoided the list. Seymour games on the other hand seemed to just fall in the Speccy Port enough criteria to be on the list.
The list is openly subjective, and I'm glad it has generated an interesting discussion and long may it continue. That said, if you object, I'll see you in the Playground at Breaktime.
I do believe the Dizzy games were worked on the Amstrad first and then ported over to the Speccy, at least for the first four adventures. Not sure what happened once Big Red took over though, and that includes the Seymour Adventures.
If you actually look in the code, it's pretty clear the bulk of the codebase is geared around the Spectrum primarily. For example all the objects on screen are assigned a colour number which corresponds with the Speccy colour. Then, for the CPC, this is mapped down onto four colours. This is why there aren't any blue background objects, because blue would map onto black in the CPC and the object would be invisible.
Quote from: andycadley on 15:20, 06 December 23Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 14:00, 06 December 23Quote from: Typhon on 13:22, 06 December 23I also went back and forth about the Dizzy games too. In the end, I decided for the same reason that most of them weren't Crap Speccy Ports - there was enough work done on them that they just about avoided the list. Seymour games on the other hand seemed to just fall in the Speccy Port enough criteria to be on the list.
The list is openly subjective, and I'm glad it has generated an interesting discussion and long may it continue. That said, if you object, I'll see you in the Playground at Breaktime.
I do believe the Dizzy games were worked on the Amstrad first and then ported over to the Speccy, at least for the first four adventures. Not sure what happened once Big Red took over though, and that includes the Seymour Adventures.
If you actually look in the code, it's pretty clear the bulk of the codebase is geared around the Spectrum primarily. For example all the objects on screen are assigned a colour number which corresponds with the Speccy colour. Then, for the CPC, this is mapped down onto four colours. This is why there aren't any blue background objects, because blue would map onto black in the CPC and the object would be invisible.
Maybe they worked on both. But the graphics were definitely done using Panda Sprites on the Amstrad CPC, The first Dizzy was essentially an afterthought after the Olivers were mucking about with the graphics for Ghost Hunters a few months earlier.
Quote from: andycadley on 09:42, 06 December 23I guess it depends on where you draw the line. There are genuinely good reasons for sharing the bulk of game logic between machines, so if it's not at "redrawn graphics" you start including everything.
Batman The Movie, RoboCop, Head over Heels, Chase HQ etc are all pretty polished titles that share the same code base with the Speccy.
I tend to consider anything with mostly monochrome graphics, or anything where all the sprites are one colour and the background monochrome as falling under the banner of being a lazy port. Reusing the graphics from the C64 can look bad, although it's at least a small effort to improve things so I'm not sure I'd consider quite the same.
In our spanish podcast, Cepeceros, we have a list of "features" that speccy ports can have. In function of how many features a game has and the level of "quality" of the features used, then the game will be more or less speccy port.
The main list considers:
* Screen size: speccy screen size (128x192 mode 0 or 256x192 mode 1)? If it is using an speccy screen size, the crtc is adjusted to the zx size or is wasting ram with black pixels (Dinamic loved to waste around 4 KBs of RAM in that).
* Using a hidden buffer or double buffer: If it is using a hidden buffer (that need to be transfered, wasting a lot of cpu in it), the buffer is in the same cpc screen mode or is in other mode (mode 2 as pacmania); because if it is using a different screen mode, then need to be converted during the copy to the screen, wasting even more cpu.
* How tiles and sprites are stored in RAM: if they are in a different mode than the screen, and the reason is not for saving RAM; then again the game will waste a lot of cpu drawing tiles and sprites to the screen or the screen buffer. A funny variant is the c64 port, when sprites are in mode 1 and the screen is in mode 0 or even better the sprites are in mode 0, but they are using 3 colours + transparent, instead of using the full cpc palette.
Of course, a bad speccy port can be very creative. And after more than one hundred episodes, we have seen a lot of crazy things:
* Games putting screen memory in $0000 for simply patching the zx spectrum code and not reassembly the code for the cpc (toi acid game).
* Usually if the previous case uses interrupts, then it will set the z80 in interrupt mode 2.
* The game has code that try to access to zx i/o ports (in pacmania there is one sound fx that is not played, because the code to send that sfx to the psg is not changed and try to write in the zx beeper).
* Beeper emulation using one psg channel (last ninja 2 even uses left channel instead the middle one, funny when you are using headphones).
* Two hidden buffers, the screen is in mode 1, but the first hidden buffer is in mode 2 (zx format) and this buffer is transferred and converted to a second hidden buffer in mode 1, and this buffer is copied to the screen (Southern Bell).
* Hidden buffers taller or wider than the screen, and the extra size is not used for clipping sprites and the game doesn't scroll in those ways. Making the cpu to waste extra time by drawing those rows that are never used (Batty; Altered Beast, amazing how a game can be at the same time a zx and c64 bad port in the cpc; Metrocross; ...)
* Kung Fu "Cinemascope" Master: That it would need it's own post XDDDD
* Finding two versions of the same game, where one is using the firmware for reading keyboard and other things; and the other one is accessing to the hardware directly (Guardian Angel).
* Thundercats is a really fun one, in 64 KBs machines the game is using a hidden buffer. In 128 KBs, there is a doble buffer, but the screen is always built in the hidden buffer and then copied to one of the two screen buffers.
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But even cpc games have minor problems, that we tried to patch always. A few examples:
* Rick Dangerous has one really fun bug in some way related to the previous one; the screen is drawn in 128x192 pixels, but the crtc is configured to show only 128x184.
* Games where the screen was not centered in the developer monitor (maybe a zx guys passed by there and touched the horizontal adjust) and the developer centered the screen by adding a black column of pixels (potsworth, ...).
* Netherworld has two versions. The first one, released in UK, is using a hidden buffer, that means a lot of tearing and flickering. The rest of versions are using a double buffer, then not flickering neither tearing. This game can be an speccy port or a cpc game at the same time.
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And even sometimes, we have got games with cpc features as double buffer, scroll hardware, ruptures, ... too :P
Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 17:27, 06 December 23Maybe they worked on both. But the graphics were definitely done using Panda Sprites on the Amstrad CPC,
There was an interview with the Oliver Twins where they explained that the games were developed on the Amstrad but already with the Spectrum in mind. So it's an "inverse" Speccy port ;) : Made on the the CPC but still limited by Speccy specs.
Quote from: eto on 19:10, 06 December 23There was an interview with the Oliver Twins where they explained
Where was that? I suddenly had the urge to find it and read it.
Quote from: Typhon on 13:17, 06 December 23I didn't include Hard Drivin because all the 8 bit versions are basically the same. That said, I agree with you on wondering what AA were smoking at the time.
The C64 version isn't the same. It's terrible. It barely functions. It's so bad Domark didn't release it at full price.
Also I bought it at full price for the CPC and loved it. A full 3D racing game on my Amstrad.
Quote from: eto on 19:10, 06 December 23Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 17:27, 06 December 23Maybe they worked on both. But the graphics were definitely done using Panda Sprites on the Amstrad CPC,
There was an interview with the Oliver Twins where they explained that the games were developed on the Amstrad but already with the Spectrum in mind. So it's an "inverse" Speccy port ;) : Made on the the CPC but still limited by Speccy specs.
Initially although they bought a PDS once they had some serious cash.
Then of course there's Super Robin Hood and Operation Gunship which don't have the same graphics as the Spectrum.
Quote from: eto on 19:10, 06 December 23Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 17:27, 06 December 23Maybe they worked on both. But the graphics were definitely done using Panda Sprites on the Amstrad CPC,
There was an interview with the Oliver Twins where they explained that the games were developed on the Amstrad but already with the Spectrum in mind. So it's an "inverse" Speccy port ;) : Made on the the CPC but still limited by Speccy specs.
If memory serves me correctly, they go into greater detail in their book that came out a few years book too...
Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 09:47, 07 December 23If memory serves me correctly, they go into greater detail in their book that came out a few years book too...
I don't have that book. I think it was in one of the retro magazines. I have to look into my PDFs.
In an attempt to move back on topic. I think there's a world of difference between porting to the speccy and a speccy port and the first batch of Dizzy adventures definitely fall into the former category.
The Big Red games (Magicland Dizzy onwards) are a different story entirely. I'd believe those were speccy ports in a heartbeat.
My story with Hard Drivin' is particularly dramatic:
ACT 1) It's summer 1991 and I'm 11. And I see an arcade machine that I wanted to have for the CPC, so I described my parents I wanted to have "the one (game) with the dynamite". Problem is, I wanted to have this:
(https://cloud10.todocoleccion.online/videojuegos-consola-amstrad/tc/2022/01/10/00/311225173.jpg)
And instead received this for Christmas:
(https://cpcrulez.fr/f/v/ik6.jpg)
ACT 2) I remember the frustration seeing I had been gifted 5 fecking games I didn't want. But it couldn't be that bad, right? Some of them should be fun... Not really: Xybots was the only good one but I didn't know what to do, APB was a chaotic conversion where I also didin't know what I was doing, Toobin and Dragon Spirit were just too arcadey and frustrating... And Hard Drivin' didn't even load. But it wasn't just that: the TNT pack gave the last finishing touches to my agonyzing disk drive belt, and it's very likely the eternal loading attempts from Hard Drivin' had a great part on it. And my dad decided to give the CPC to an old objects shop just because the broken belt, somehow assuming the whole machine was useless. So Hard Divin' killed my CPC.
ACT 3) It's 1993 and my dad's 386 with VGA is finally getting some games. Budokan was among them, and there was "4D Sports Driving" or... Stunts. I didn't know back then, but that was my first exposition to Hard Drivin' as this was a Hard Drivin' clone with a cool track editor and some crazy characaters and cars.
(https://assets.rockpapershotgun.com/images/17/apr/stunts6.jpg)
I recommend everyone to try this one, it's pretty fun. The game has an active compettive community today, check this out: 1) https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/the-remarkable-community-around-a-27-year-old-ms-dos-racing-game 2) https://www.stunts.hu/
(https://assets.rockpapershotgun.com/images/17/apr/stunts4.jpg)
One of the things you can add in the editor are tennis fields, so I remember adding a lot of then to see what happened. I also remember someone made a super long square circuit with 4 banked curves in each square, and me and one friend tried to have the best times on that track. You really needed to think about slowing down before reaching the curve, especially with the super car.
(https://assets.rockpapershotgun.com/images/17/apr/stunts7.jpg)
ACT 4) It's 2015 and I embark on a still unfinished (Biggles part 2, Head over Heels, Batman...) mission to complete all 80ish CPC games I had as a kid. I reach Hard Drivin', load the game from the TNT pack DSKs and... the game didn't load. It appears the bug was not only in my copy as a kid. So Tengen/Domark killed CPC machines on a massive scale... Deliberatedly? Quite unlikely, probably an error. So I try the normal version of the game... and get a 2 frames per second movement of this:
(https://img.colleconline.com/artefactimg/5b5d2f06845c44c8b69d3eb8f5b9038e/89c6b01446cd4323b33218988e5ecc56.jpg)
Which forces me to play the MS-DOS version of the game as the CPC one was unplayable. And I finally finished the game! The most tricky part was to place the car in order to enter the loops. It's good to control wheel with the mouse for that.
EPILOGUE) I'm not sure if Hard Drivin' is a speccy port, but it's slower than the Spectrum version and it should have been rejected by stores due to being unplayable. It also broke my disk drive belt, so I hate it.
You were lucky that you had that on disk! If you want real torture, load APB from tape! It's one of the worst tape multiload nightmares known to humankind!
I actually enjoyed APB though once I played it on disk.
This is a great thread and an awesome list, we should add it to the relevant wiki page...
I will probably do that. Want to put a brief note on each as to why it's a Blatant Port. And probably a link to cpc power as well.
Quote from: Typhon on 12:51, 08 December 23I will probably do that. Want to put a brief note on each as to why it's a Blatant Port. And probably a link to cpc power as well.
That would be awesome :)
Quote from: Typhon on 12:51, 08 December 23I will probably do that. Want to put a brief note on each as to why it's a Blatant Port. And probably a link to cpc power as well.
Seconded. Great idea and would be a great addition. I'll be happy to thrown in any notes I know about certain titles too.
it's almost as though the CPC is 2 computers in 1. A CPC and a Speccy. I'd still rather the Speccy ports than no game in some of the cases. Some of them are still pretty awesome.
Quote from: zhulien on 14:58, 13 December 23it's almost as though the CPC is 2 computers in 1. A CPC and a Speccy. I'd still rather the Speccy ports than no game in some of the cases. Some of them are still pretty awesome.
Aye, apart from a very slow level 2, I really enjoyed The Untouchables on the Amstrad.
Added:
https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/List_of_Speccy_Ports
Quote from: Typhon on 19:42, 13 December 23Added:
https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/List_of_Speccy_Ports
Awesome, thanks! (though it could be a list within the original article? Not that I'm complaining :) )
Oh by all means edit it in if you wish :)
From 1989 most Domark games were speccy ports.
I recently discover Double Dragon 3 on spectrum. The CPC release is a well known speccy-port. But the speccy release is not so bad, with sound, music, and a smoother animation ! But the speccy release is 128ko only ! Not the CPC one, which doesn't manage 128ko systems ! A shame.
This is exactly the same situation with Narc: the Speccy release is 128ko only on great, and then ported to CPC on 64ko...
It's a pretty loose category. As pointed out, many of people's favourite CPC games are Spectrum ports, but some have redrawn mode 0 graphics like Chase HQ and Commando, some have recoloured graphics like Head Over Heels and many other isometric games (why does 3DC get called a Speccy port and not Batman?), and others keep the original Spectrum sprites and are none the worse for it (like Starquake).
Quote from: kawickboy on 12:45, 18 December 23From 1989 most Domark games were speccy ports.
I recently discover Double Dragon 3 on spectrum. The CPC release is a well known speccy-port. But the speccy release is not so bad, with sound, music, and a smoother animation ! But the speccy release is 128ko only ! Not the CPC one, which doesn't manage 128ko systems ! A shame.
This is exactly the same situation with Narc: the Speccy release is 128ko only on great, and then ported to CPC on 64ko...
Domark were one of the worst publishers of CPC games. I remember seeing C64 bond games, well polished, cool intros snd the CzpC version being complete crap.
I avoided all Domark games on the CPC after that, luckily.
Domark didn't develop their games in-house; they were a third party publisher. Some games you would have missed: Split Personalities, the Star Wars and Castle Master games, and Escape From The Planet of the Robot Monsters.