I'm planning to play this game, but after few minute of playing I'll probably give up: the interface for dialog is one of my top 5 stupid interface, When you talk to somebody, you have to press fire to see the next dialog, and when the conversdation end, your character switch to move/attack mode and if you press fire again by error you just kill the personn you were talking to.
for avoid this you have to press spacebar and selct talk action again...
So Is the story worth it? anyone play this game. (rated 15/20 on cpcpower)
stupid interface were so common at the time (of lore ?) that we were used to them and dealt with it.
For today's standards, this can be a turn off for many real old school retro games.
We tend to forgot that progress on the matter in the last 25 years because we grew up with it.
Times of Lore is one of the rare "good and quite well realised" RPG on CPC, hence the good reviews it generally get..
If you look betterly the CPCpower's page, at the "test" section, Amstrad 100p100 gave 85 %
But Amstar & CPC gave only 10/20 which is far from a good mark.... mostly due to the bad translation in french and graphics that can be not that good.
I have to verify but it is quite possible the game benefit form graphics ported from c64, which can then explain some oddity with them due to the largely different palette...
It may also have a few Speccy port oddities.
I found a site for an ORIC version (brobably homebrew) with good comparisons of the different versions.
http://tol.oric.org/index.php (http://tol.oric.org/index.php)
ZX Speccy :
(http://tol.oric.org/pictures/spectrum/TimesOfLore_1zx.png) (http://tol.oric.org/pictures/spectrum/TimesOfLore_1zx.png)
(http://tol.oric.org/pictures/spectrum/TimesOfLore_4zx.png) (http://tol.oric.org/pictures/spectrum/TimesOfLore_4zx.png)
"a valkyrie, both strong and "beautiful"...
(http://tol.oric.org/pictures/spectrum/TimesOfLore_5zx.png) (http://tol.oric.org/pictures/spectrum/TimesOfLore_5zx.png)
"Beautiful" ? obviously not...
(http://tol.oric.org/pictures/spectrum/TimesOfLore_7zx.png) (http://tol.oric.org/pictures/spectrum/TimesOfLore_7zx.png)
CPC :
(http://tol.oric.org/pictures/cpc/TimesOfLore_1cpc.png) (http://tol.oric.org/pictures/cpc/TimesOfLore_1cpc.png)
(http://tol.oric.org/pictures/cpc/TimesOfLore_4cpc.png) (http://tol.oric.org/pictures/cpc/TimesOfLore_4cpc.png)
(http://tol.oric.org/pictures/cpc/TimesOfLore_5cpc.png) (http://tol.oric.org/pictures/cpc/TimesOfLore_5cpc.png)
(http://tol.oric.org/pictures/cpc/TimesOfLore_7cpc.png) (http://tol.oric.org/pictures/cpc/TimesOfLore_7cpc.png)
C64 :
(http://tol.oric.org/pictures/c64/TimesOfLore_1c64.png) (http://tol.oric.org/pictures/c64/TimesOfLore_1c64.png)
(http://tol.oric.org/pictures/c64/TimesOfLore_4c64.png) (http://tol.oric.org/pictures/c64/TimesOfLore_4c64.png)
(http://tol.oric.org/pictures/c64/TimesOfLore_5c64.png) (http://tol.oric.org/pictures/c64/TimesOfLore_5c64.png)
(http://tol.oric.org/pictures/c64/TimesOfLore_7c64.png) (http://tol.oric.org/pictures/c64/TimesOfLore_7c64.png)
Atari ST :
(http://tol.oric.org/pictures/atari/TimesOfLore_7st.png) (http://tol.oric.org/pictures/atari/TimesOfLore_7st.png)
The CPC seem to have a few things resized, just look at the lady's big face... which screw up all the ditherings on her... (ouch). must be due to some RAM issues... as we know it, CPC graphics are a lot heavier in RAM data to store (and display) compaired to C64.... so the more surface the more RAM used.
Also the lack of different greys or browns on CPC and the inability to easily mix different resolutions (no hard sprites in fine pixels on CPC) often means badly adapted graphics from the C64 due to lack of money invested in Graphic artist from the company (also short deadlines, too often).
Origin was a great company, known for later Wing Commander Series, or the whole Lord British things if i remember correctly.
But also they are American, so they didn't bothered too much for the Amstrad CPC.
The Amstrad CPC version doesn't seem that bad, but the Sprites for the player character look hastly ported from C64's fine pixels into CPC larger pixels yet with as feww colorus as on C64.The interface was judged good for the Time, perhaps even revolutionary... you know...
Also a lot of elements looks like ported from the Atari ST.
look at the text+candle zone, the "scroll" look.
Sadly the graphics were not really all well ported from this Atari ST.
A good point with the CPC version is that during the Cinematic parts, the text is in Mode2...
which actually also explain why the Amazone/Walkiry face was reduced... the text being in split screen multimode (horizontal separation), you could not get it the same way as on C64 (vertical separation).
Well, may have been done with some 256 pixels vertical display... but they didn't.
As usual this game could have used a proper mouse, on the amstrad CPC.
Also it could have benefit from a disk only version... Tape and only 64K RAM are not good for this kind of game IMO.
And again, a better Graphic artist time could have been used, as it is, it is mostly repalette from C64 tiles (sometimes resized hastily, and badly repaletted too) and a few stuff from the Atari ST (interface zone), still with odd palette..
As usual i would like to rant to the fact a moderner approach could give a nice awesome game with modern CPC6128... or PLUS.
A Plus version could get nice hardsprite and sweet mouse icon/cursor...
A simple modern Amstrad CPC6128 version could get a whole set of Demo effects too...
Just look at the title screen... could have used a split screen so the Origin logo would be in Mode1...
And so on.
Poor CPC GFX, taken from C64 (where is the throw-out smiley if you need it?!)
As too often there is a too poor palette work, mostly, but also the whole pixels should have been a bit more refined too.
This game is fun because really each port has it's unique stuff, Amiga version wasn't just an Atari ST port but looked more close to the IBM PC version.
but as usual the Amstrad port was just a port, not an ambitious version at all.
Still it seem to be a good game, as those RPG were quite rare on the CPC.
to be fair this kind of game was quite convenient for the C64... because it could mix quite freely character tiles in both 160x200x4 and 320x200x2 resolutions... plus the hard sprites of course.
Sadly when ported into CPC, the attributes limitations from the C64 remains a little bit too much to my taste, a bit as with Sid Meier's Pirates!
It's not like Animation and sprites are the most important stuff in those games, so the CPC version was too often handicaped because it failed to get the graphics it deserved.
funny detail the "times of Lore" logo from the intro (the one with gold letters on stone plate) is actually ported from the Amiga version.
Sadly as often, they mostly reduced the resolution in horizontal half (to get the mode0 large pixels) so all the ditherings went into horizontal lines... which completely ruins it all.
I edited a few pics here, hastily... just for fun.
The Origin logo is from the EGA version (reduced from 5 colours into 4... mode1), while the times of Lore Logo is mostly re-inked and re pixelised in order to have proper ditherings instead of those terrible horizontal lines..
the player character selection screen is the CPC version (mode2 zone is screwed on this screenshot but it's not important) with slightly improuved graphics, I guess.
Valyrie face is the C64 version, with a few re-pixels, and other inks/inks separations too.
Ideally, the intro page should get a raster multimode screen but the in-game screen should also get a raster palette change for the info/interface zone. this could give more freedom for the playfield tiles.
I edited mostly this part just to see if some softer and darker inks would help.
The playfield tiles and sprites would need a better redone, but need to be edited as a tileset to have a proper result.
WoW! That looks fantastic! Hope somebody will overwork the game and integrate this wonderful new gfx in it :-)
The game is technically impressive on the 8-bits, due to its scale. However there really isn't a lot of story. Most of the game is walking around trying not to accidentally kill a villager.
I actually never had a problem with the graphics, which I thought were quite good. For example the title screen gold logo effect is very neat - and might explain the lack of colours. The Valkyrie picture was abysmal though.
Wow! Looks great :) Any volunteers for the "remake? ;)
Quote from: Briggsy on 18:10, 21 August 12
I actually never had a problem with the graphics, which I thought were quite good. For example the title screen gold logo effect is very neat ...
So do yourself a favour and never ever check out the gold-effect of XF, since you will not like this one here anylonger ;-)
[Amstrad Cpc] Xyphoes Fantasy longplay part 1/4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe3RfKKhokM#)
mac death: thanks for all these information and very good job on the enhanced screen!!!
:) ok it's more action than rpg...
too bad I can't stand the interface... maybe I miss a good game...
In this case.... Fano could change the interface :)
well, such game (times of Lore) could be done from scratch in order to have even better result, i mean this would enable to have a nice version of course, but also better interface.
I only did a few thing for those pics... it was mostly to show as usual that those graphics could really be easily enhanced because while not always bad, they were poorly ported anyway.
Modern productions all have multiload disk, 128K (not all, but) and shittons of demo effects and very kool musics.
So yeah.
The original Graphic artist is said to be a well known guy who did worked on many Origin projects...
But to be honnest He never really worked specificaly for the CPC version I guess... as it was mostly ported from element of all other versions obviously...
C64 game graphics (ouch, palette screw and attributes limitation all the way).
Amiga intro page.
Atari ST options/Menu zone.
and perhaps even a few modified speccy Z80 code too indeed (don't know for this one, but this would be logical).
the rest was hastily done specifically for CPC then (Sprites)... mostly with an horizontal resolution reduction to match the Mode0.
Those automatic graphic ports are a plague as it screws up all the ditherings, and those sprites could have used more colours i guess.
Also the actual playfield seem quite smaller on CPC than on C64... a bit as for the speccy or Atari ST versions perhaps... perhaps even smaller.
A clever move could be to aim at a "256x256 sized screen, the Option/Menu zone could even be in Mode1 to have nicer letters and finer graphics, and the playfield would then be in Mode0 with proper Graphics (sprties too) and then bigger vertical size.
the Valkyrie face :
I mostly repaletted a bit, but the real work was on the lips and the eyes, so she can be gorgeous again.
Post Edition :
Ok, I ran the game a bit
Looks like some of the screenshots we find on the Net are a bit false.
(no black border around the playfield)
Also it seems that the tiles are uite easy to find in the rAM with Winape search graphics option, so I guess to simply edit the tilesa bit could be fairly easy...
I would just need as usual a coder to help me to sort the graphics and put them back in the game once redone.
I haven't found the sprites yet, will have a look at it perhaps but they could be encoded in a strange way, as they are masked.
This said, the engine is character based scrolling/movement...
being also a 64K RAM game, i guess the sprites use a lot of compression of whatever.
Still the playfield often looks a bit messy
Playfield is so small it hurts and is almost unplayable... no far vision IMO.
Perhaps a "128PLUS" patch the way done for Rick dangerous could enable some Hardsprites replacements for the sprites ?
But we know this is hardcore level job...
So just fromscratching a whole new engine could be great.
From what I saw, the messy feeling from the tiles comes from too much use of the Black+white+grey.
The B&G&W roads is simply far too messy...
So the Sprites using also a lot of black&white&grey blend into the background too easily.
Good point would be to separate betterly the colours.
funny part : the palette given by Winape indicates the darkBlue is used twice... what a shame, as usual.
Sorry for the Double post.
Video time !!!!
EGA PC version :
Let's Play Times of Lore Part 01 - The Intro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhTrnWFeGkg#)
Let's Play Times of Lore Part 02 - Let's Take A Walk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFvWuRmeRgQ#)
EGA pc often suffer from being limited to super CGA so the palette is quite simple (spectrum like) yet a good 320x200x16 mode.
Here the playfield is quite small, which then is a common feature in all versions of the game.
we have the same screen setting as for the Amiga.
Sprites look bigger than on 8 bit versions.
BTW those americans knew of to do great EGA versions.
C64 version :
[C64] Times Of Lore (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q4Xx5yv2yg#)
Classical, SID and shits...
the mix of "Mode1 speccy tiles" and Mode3 4colours large pixels and fine Mode1 HardSprites is usefull.
Apple// :
Times of Lore for the Apple II (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfCaFE4E_jQ#)
in colour the apple2 is some sort of snoty mode0 (sort of) with simple palette too.
again small playfield, character based scrolling, no masks for the sprites, different setting for the menu and so on.
Quite a nice one actually.
NES version :
Times of Lore - NES Gameplay (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pMLBJMKynw#)
Here we have full screen which is good and clearly Console flavoured.
Those Consolefags know how to do JRPG obviously.
Graphics are somewhat, NESsy... good inspiration though.
Couldn't find Amiga, ST, Speccy nor Amstrad, perhaps I should lurk moar..
Would be good to have an Amstrad Video/Playtest, if not a longplay....
What i love with those games from this era : lots of cinematics, It reminds me Eyes of the Beholder... or Might and Magic III : isles of Terra.
I'm always ashamed CPC couldn't get those sort of games...
Bloodwytch was good,
Mandragore, Bard's Tales, Pirrates!... most of them being "C64 ports".
Good point with Times of Lore is that the game is somewhat limited to C64 specifications... as the sprites are in "mode1" (on C64) they use like 2-3 Hardsprites per line to get those in 3+ colours... so it is clearly do-able with the PLUS because actually few sprites per screen.
but on the other hand, a Fullscreen CPC (or bigger/24k screen) is clearly possible and would be awesome, in ROM/128k version...(not only for PLUS...)
The menu/icon system could also be improuved, so would a Map option, or even an equipment management page (as for Might&Magic3... or Eyes of the Beholder or some Ultima games too... or just wonderboy 2 : monsterland...)
Yet sticking to a character scrolling based engine enable a lighter CPU intensive engine and would be great...
The tiles system is quite simple, and don't need that much tiles (256 would be more than enough)... still a shame to have such game as a 64K version I guess.
A clever upgrade would be to get it in some sort of isometric/perspective design, like Heroes of Might and Magic3 perhaps... (still character based... but would need an additional layer of masked things...)
Then a good RPG fan to give us sweet campaigns, perhaps even Multiplayer/network games...
I dream too much i guess.