I posted this in the FutureOS ML, join if you are interrested or let's start an altenate discussion here...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi all!
I'm thinking (for a while now) about a new game for CPC & FutureOS. This game starts where the movie Tron Legacy ends. It will be a long term (some years) project, because I want to ultimatively use all the power of the CPC.
The following technical requirements are needed:
- CPC6128 and CPC Plus (or only the CPC-Plus?)
- 3.5" (or 5.25") B-drive or hard-disc
- 512 KB expansion RAM
- Digiblaster
The game shall have a real good story, everyone of you can contribute. If here is enought interrest, then we can start up in creating the story and plot of the game.
It shall have RPG and action elements and a lot more. So a kind of everything doable on CPC.
Video sequences will be used to provide additional informations. This needs a hard-disc. For example at SF2 or the Dobbertin one. With drive only, the video sequences must be shorter.
Also (digitized) Sounds shall be uses. Complete tracks in best quality. Therefore we can use a Digiblaste and/or an MP3 card.
The game will be sold including needed hardware add-one. It shall be cheaper or free for all the developpers. We also can produce Plus cartridges (since I bought 100 ACIDs).
Now, if you users and programs out there like this ideas, then you can contribute, f.e.:
- Story
- Sound
- Graphics
- also coding
- whatever you like
This game shall reach the borders of the CPC with expansions. It's not inteded to be a 128 KB game. We want to get the maximum out of our trusty machine to show the rest of the world what a CPC can do!
What do you thing? Feel free to give any kinds of comments.
Greetings programs,
TFM
I can see the coolness in a game that uses all kinds of expansions. Of course, since I'm using a CPC464 I think it should run on that too - if expanded.
Currently my CPC464 has 128k ram, Digiblaster, 3.5" drive.
I think if a CPC464 has 512k ram, then the game should also run on a CPC464.
Anyway, plot idea: Tron is back now, Clu is dead, how about this simple idea: You control Tron and fights against the remaining of Clu's soldiers in various different ways we know from Tron and Tron Legacy.
very interesting and very, very ambitious. Haven't seen TL yet, but I'd pay for a game like that in a second!
But, I think that what you say, "The game will be sold including needed hardware add-ons", is maybe more ambitious than the programming itself... what would be the cost and where would you source all the add-ons?
Quote from: TFM/FS on 05:03, 13 January 11
What do you thing? Feel free to give any kinds of comments.
I think it will be the first to use this much ram and this kind of storage for a game.
I think it would take a long time to develop - and I really hope the authors will not get demotivated and stop.
I can help with some code examples or some functions if needed, but I can't give any more than this to it.
I wish you success and I hope it succeeds. I will watch with interest.
I don't want to sound negative, but do you understand that it will take you years to make this game, that only a few people can play, because of the RAM extension, the hard drive ?
We barely made Orion Prime possible, and we *simply* made it run on a *simple* CPC with 128k. It took us years. And we're really good at what we were doing.
My advice would be : don't get too ambitious... But I wish you luck.
It's interesting to see an RPG on a CPC. I used to play a lot of RPG's on my PS1 and PS2 which were usually imported from the US as a lot of them didn't get a UK release. How many hours is the game going to be? I haven't seen Tron and cant really remember much about the first one. Would you make it "Monkey Island" point and click style, or would you make it more "JPRPG" style? I would of thought with such a big game that a PLUS machine would probably be the way to go....
I'd buy it, but I doubt I'd ever get it to run on a real machine although I do have some of the prerequisites. I'd buy it just for its collectability.
On the other had, if hardware is included... which makes me wonder: what if someone (like me) does own some of the hardware but not all? Will there be custom orders? It seems highly complex to me...
Re: Orion Prime: I bought it on both 3" and 3.5". I only opened the 3" package, loaded it once to satisfy myself and check out the box, rip the CD and look at the feelies, but after that I just played it from the HxC. I love you guys for pushing the ordinary CPC to its limits and for such a great game, though I'd really like to see what could be done with a Plus machine. Which is why I would be rooting for such an ambitious project as the one we're discussing here!
WoW! A lot of comments here! I see interest does indeed exist. Great! Thank's to all of you for your comments.
Quote from: Targhan on 11:05, 13 January 11
I don't want to sound negative, but do you understand that it will take you years to make this game, that only a few people can play, because of the RAM extension, the hard drive ?
No question, it will take years. But it's already 2011, so who cares ;-) I know that from my Giana Sisters clone - which takes too much time anyway, but will be finished this year.
The game will sold in different variations, including needed hardware, so basicly everybody with a CPC6128 or CPC-Plus will be able to play it. I'm prepared to provide the needed hardware for a very low price (exactly what it costs myslef). Further I may can sell some stuff to get some money to fund the hardware to make the final product much cheaper.
Mr. Lou: Thanks for your ideas. Great!!! Thery will be part of the game. However we can't use the 464, because it misses some banking features, needed for overscan, RAM management etc. This game project shall cover the higher end of that what a mega-expanded-CPC can do. For 464 there will be other projects :)
Quote from: sigh on 12:23, 13 January 11
It's interesting to see an RPG on a CPC. I used to play a lot of RPG's on my PS1 and PS2 which were usually imported from the US as a lot of them didn't get a UK release. How many hours is the game going to be? I haven't seen Tron and cant really remember much about the first one. Would you make it "Monkey Island" point and click style, or would you make it more "JPRPG" style? I would of thought with such a big game that a PLUS machine would probably be the way to go....
Yes, I'm thinking hard about a Plus only game. But finally we will have a CPC old generation and a Plus version I guess - and in this case the Plus version will be really advance.
While I did the concept of Giana Sisters for the CPC6128, it's Plus version will have some upgrades. In the case of our Tron game, we shall start up with the Plus version, and developp the CPC old generation version afterwards. So we'll going to use the Plus right.
Yes, I definitely want to have RPG elements / RPG levels in the game. Do you know Pier Solar? I'm thinking about that kind of technique, but it will surely look Tron like!
Further other kinds of game play will be there. The idea from Mr. Lou will cover an action part of the game.
Arnoldemu: Thank's for your offers of example code. Well, I'm quite experienced with Plus and CPC coding. This is all not the problem. But in case would like to contribute a Mini-Game or a part of it that would be amazing.
If you put your game on a 512k cartridge, would it then be possible to run with "only" 128k ram?
And the plus version could offer the choice of digital or analogue joystick.
Quote from: steve on 19:52, 13 January 11
If you put your game on a 512k cartridge, would it then be possible to run with "only" 128k ram?
And the plus version could offer the choice of digital or analogue joystick.
Yes right the Digital Joystick provides a complete new game feeling. On the old CPCs it can be archieved in part by using a mouse (PS2 on SF2 f.e., or the ST-mouse) or an trackball.
Imagine, controling a light-cycle on the new grid needs analogue input. On the old grid the digital one was enough.
It's hard to tell now if a Plus with 128 KB will be enough at the end. If not, the game will be released with all needed expansions.
But with the program and data on a cartridge, you would only use ram for screens and temporary data.
I don't want to sound negative, but do you understand that it will take you years to make this game, that only a few people can play, because of the RAM extension, the hard drive ?
We barely made Orion Prime possible, and we *simply* made it run on a *simple* CPC with 128k. It took us years. And we're really good at what we were doing.
My advice would be : don't get too ambitious... But I wish you luck. @Targhan Sounds interesting... You had good experiences with Orion Prime. It's an remarkable game. Three or four people were working together on the game? So, what were the most time consuming part of programming or creating the game? Static grafix, sounds/music, sound effects , creating and adapting a plot for a computer game, find a good programming routine, just idle time? What do you think? Let me know. @TFM I'm also very intressted in new games which show how much a CPC can achieve, even with expansions. (The core Z80 and therefore the speed would always be the same. Am I right?). By the way... what about using an expansion (e.g. Symbiface or CPCBooster) for calculation use. The CPCBooster has 10kB? free space for programming ROM Routines. Is it possible that those expansions can act like a parallel processor for math routines?
>sounds interesting... You had good experiences with Orion Prime. It's an remarkable game. Three or four people were working together on the game? So, what were the most time consuming part of programming or creating the game? Static grafix, sounds/music, sound effects , creating and adapting a plot for a computer game, find a good programming routine, just idle time? What do you think? Let me know.
I did all the code, screenplay and original texts. All this took a crazy amount of time. Even if you don't always see it, there are a lot of technical and artistic innovations in this game. And it's just a game on a machine we knew VERY well... So now let's think about what you can possibly imagine with 512kb RAM, cpc PLUS, hard drive and so on, which gives a machine that you don't know in the end. Even with generated gfxs with Orion Prime, it took us a lot of time. Now what are you going to fill all your 512kb memory with, how are you going to create all this ? To me it's simply crazyness. Especially with a team of people all over the world you don't know. Sylvestre was "only" 100 miles from my home (now we're almost neighbours :). It wouldn't have worked in other conditions. Grim was kind of fired because he wouldn't work fast enough on gfxs. But I'm sure he wouldn't have been fired if he had lived nearby.
To me you're too ambitious, and you have too many unknown variables in your equation. If you want to make a Tron RPG, you'd better make a 3D engine with a cool line rendering / surface filling. Faster to code and it will work on a plain CPC :).
Oh, maybe you've heard of Aventury, a RPG that the guys from Futur's wanted to code. They are very very good coders. Well, they didn't make it, but it took them 10 years to admit it. And they knew their CPC Plus better than anyone else on earth (and it's still true to this day).
@Targhan, you may think it is an impossible task, but that is no reason not to try.
I expect most of the 512k will be filled with graphics and sound.
>I expect most of the 512k will be filled with graphics and sound.
Yes. But the point is : WHAT graphics and WHAT sound. I'm a musician, know both world of soundchip and lengthly samples played at the fastest rate. You need people to compose the songs, create the sounds, modify the sounds for them to fit the CPC. It's a hell of a work. And the graphics. Everyone was in awe in front of the tiny (Yes ! Tiny !) graphics of Color Lines. How long to get the creations of all the graphists, who only had to draw a, what, 17k page of little sprites ?
I only talk for my experience, but I actually don't know anyone on CPC who worked on bigger project than I did, and *actually* released them.
Interesting topic, and then discussion.
I'll just give my snap judgement and quick thoughts without over-analysing -
- Basing it on Tron is a bad idea, firstly for licensing and copyright issues. I've seen projects that have been worked on for years and completed, having to be ditched completely due to the copyright holder sending cease and desist letters etc - I remember there was a big Spectrum game project, unfortunately I can't remember for what game but it was based on a famous Spectrum game (big release at the time) that looked and played amazing, but had to be completely ditched due to copyright infringement and the fact that it would take far too long for the programmer to take out all the parts that did infringe so the project was canned and never released. Very sad, and what a waste of time and effort.
- Also secondly cause not everyone likes or is that excited by Tron. I remember it as a fun kitchy movie from my childhood, but I don't think I'm going to bother seeing Tron 2.0 at the cinema ... just not that exciting or enticing. But hey maybe that's me.
- The idea of writing a game to take advantage of new CPC hardware is definitely an intriguing idea ... it could kickstart more people into getting this hardware and therefore more games being produced on it.....
- ....but it should have reasonable limits. The only 'add-ons' I have for my CPC is a Multiface 2 (lol), a 3.5" disk on its way shortly and I'm contemplating the SD card reader. Unless the game was absoultely 'amazing' I have no need to buy extra ram, CPC booster, hard disk, etc - it could be a big failure, unless you're happy with people playing via emulator - but then you wouldn't make any money. Don't stretch yourself too thinly making it only work several pieces of hardware that only very few will buy or have
- The hardware must be readily and easily available, from trustworthy suppliers. Some new hardware I looked at getting, I didn't like the poorly designed website and other factors made me uncomfortable parting with cash for some unknown person 100s of miles away. Plus it would work if you could do a package deal for the game and the hardware.
- Why not look to do and collaborate on a sequel to Orion Prime instead? You have such a good base there....
I agree...
Tron is too big a license and franchise for us...
we'll have to call.
Captain Ersatz...where are You ? ???
=That's a job for ErsatzMan!!! :laugh:
Perhaps reviving the Loriciel's DISC franchise then ?
The Grid ? too obvious...(well, not really actually...) Grid Fighterz ?
The Matrix ? already used too... what else ?
I wouldn't look at other existing licences either, just in case.
Even the R-Type and Great Giani sisters remakes could potentially have trouble, although I don't think any of the licence holders will really care.
Why not create your own world, characters and setting?
Quote from: steve on 20:46, 13 January 11
But with the program and data on a cartridge, you would only use ram for screens and temporary data.
Right and:
- Changing variables in the matix of a map (16 KB more...)
- Changing f.e. Sprite-Gfx in certatin conditions.
Ok, let's see, it could work out with 128 K RAM and everything else in 512 KB Cartridge-ROM.
However, movie scenes (and I want them ;-)) must be on hard-disc.
Quote from: hal 6128 on 21:00, 13 January 11
I don't want to sound negative, but do you understand that it will take you years to make this game, that only a few people can play, because of the RAM extension, the hard drive ?
Right, it will take years. But everybody will be able to play, because all needed hardware will be supplied with the game.
Quote from: hal 6128 on 21:00, 13 January 11
We barely made Orion Prime possible, and we *simply* made it run on a *simple* CPC with 128k. It took us years. And we're really good at what we were doing.
Right, to make it running on a 128 KB machine can be a pain. But with more RAM it will be a bit more easy and more comprehensive.
Quote from: hal 6128 on 21:00, 13 January 11
@TFM I'm also very intressted in new games which show how much a CPC can achieve, even with expansions. (The core Z80 and therefore the speed would always be the same. Am I right?). By the way... what about using an expansion (e.g. Symbiface or CPCBooster) for calculation use. The CPCBooster has 10kB? free space for programming ROM Routines. Is it possible that those expansions can act like a parallel processor for math routines?
The Booster+ is indeed a hot candidate. Right, 4 MHz, cpu will not be change. It shall stay a real CPC.
But up to now nobody ever tried to make a game for a fully expanded CPC. So let's give it a try. Well, I got some experiences in long-time projects. I will not abandon it, as soon as there are some problem. We'll solve them :-)
Quote from: Targhan on 21:40, 13 January 11
I did all the code, screenplay and original texts. All this took a crazy amount of time. Even if you don't always see it, there are a lot of technical and artistic innovations in this game. And it's just a game on a machine we knew VERY well... So now let's think about what you can possibly imagine with 512kb RAM, cpc PLUS, hard drive and so on, which gives a machine that you don't know in the end. Even with generated gfxs with Orion Prime, it took us a lot of time. Now what are you going to fill all your 512kb memory with, how are you going to create all this ? To me it's simply crazyness. Especially with a team of people all over the world you don't know. Sylvestre was "only" 100 miles from my home (now we're almost neighbours :) . It wouldn't have worked in other conditions. Grim was kind of fired because he wouldn't work fast enough on gfxs. But I'm sure he wouldn't have been fired if he had lived nearby.
To me you're too ambitious, and you have too many unknown variables in your equation. If you want to make a Tron RPG, you'd better make a 3D engine with a cool line rendering / surface filling. Faster to code and it will work on a plain CPC :) .
Right it may be crazy ... and maybe there will be never a bigger game than OP (I wouldn't wonder). On the other hand ... I like the idea to use a fully equipped CPC.
Well, with all my experiences creating FutureOS a fully expanded CPC is a machine, that I know
very well... and with help from the scene we can make it all reality.
I'm already working on a 3D engine, that runs well, but it's a version for 128 KB, that must be (the best) completly redone.
If we all do a very well defined part of the game, then it will work out. And it's not too much work for the single person.
So.... I guess... after creating the story of the game, we need to define clear standarts first. If we start up the right we, it's all doable.
Quote from: Targhan on 21:43, 13 January 11
Oh, maybe you've heard of Aventury, a RPG that the guys from Futur's wanted to code. They are very very good coders. Well, they didn't make it, but it took them 10 years to admit it. And they knew their CPC Plus better than anyone else on earth (and it's still true to this day).
Right, this is indeed a very good point! Time is the critical thing at all! But we got time ;-) As long as people don't loose the interrest after 70% of the way...
Quote from: steve on 21:52, 13 January 11
@Targhan, you may think it is an impossible task, but that is no reason not to try.
I expect most of the 512k will be filled with graphics and sound.
Right, let's try it!!! About the RAM... we can put gfx and corresponding routines in the same 16 KB expansion RAM block, so the main memory must not be used for it. For example: Player sprites and their routine are in the same RAM. Or.. sound and player are in the same RAM.
Banking is a task that must be considered from the beginning.
And about the main memory. If we work with overscan (beautifull!) then only 32 KB are left ;-)
Quote from: Targhan on 22:30, 13 January 11
Yes. But the point is : WHAT graphics and WHAT sound. I'm a musician, know both world of soundchip and lengthly samples played at the fastest rate. You need people to compose the songs, create the sounds, modify the sounds for them to fit the CPC. It's a hell of a work. And the graphics. Everyone was in awe in front of the tiny (Yes ! Tiny !) graphics of Color Lines. How long to get the creations of all the graphists, who only had to draw a, what, 17k page of little sprites ?
I only talk for my experience, but I actually don't know anyone on CPC who worked on bigger project than I did, and *actually* released them.
We have a lot of potential in the CPC scene, everybody can contribute what he/she can do the best. So if enought people have interrest, the single person can do his/her favorite thing on CPC and it's not too much work.
Good organisation is needed, but step by step
Quote from: MacDeath on 03:20, 14 January 11
I agree...
Tron is too big a license and franchise for us...
we'll have to call.
Captain Ersatz...where are You ? ???
=That's a job for ErsatzMan!!! :laugh:
Perhaps reviving the Loriciel's DISC franchise then ?
The Grid ? too obvious...(well, not really actually...) Grid Fighterz ?
The Matrix ? already used too... what else ?
Right, but to find a good name for the game will be a smaller task ;-) And we can wait some time with it... Release name must not be the same as the working title.. :-)
Quote from: Xyphoe on 03:38, 14 January 11
I wouldn't look at other existing licences either, just in case.
Even the R-Type and Great Giani sisters remakes could potentially have trouble, although I don't think any of the licence holders will really care.
Why not create your own world, characters and setting?
Well, our Giana clone will be called "Return of the Sisters" or better "Tribute to the Sisters". Tolkin can decide at the end. Whatever. But a "fan project" for some 8 bit computers will hopefully not create too much trouble. And Gravenreuth is &DEAD.
About the new world... IMHO Tron is absolutely fascinating and you can get so much out of this idea about a digital world. Further we are open to create own world etc... what ever we want.
Targhan: +1
I must admit your project catch my attention, but great graphics, great cinematic doesn't mean the game will be good, orion prime was a great game because the story and the "interface" were top notch. Of course the graphics are top too, but just imagine the same graphics with a syntax analyzer and I will never spend 5 minutes in it.
And for 3d cinematic, I wish you good luck. making a good picture in 16Million colors that look great requires a lot of work,trust me) and it doesn't mean it will be good converted in CPC format (you'll have to rework it each frame...).
And why taking a copyrighted licence?
@Targhan
Respect for doing most stuff alone. Really! Even I couldn't comprehend it, caus' I'm not a coder.
@TFM
Yes, a good defined and coordinated project would maybe help to perform work in a bearable time.
I've never participate to such work. (I'm not a coder). But it's sound interesting. I would like to contribute to it. And it would be the first time to me to support a CPC project. Maybe I could do drawing work or stuff like that even it's defining a line, new fonts oder thousand of symbols as Targhan mentioned (sounds like standard work ...boring but necessary to complete :) )
...
Just have idealistic fun in a long term project :)
@Xyphoe
Short question: does licence copyrights impact something even it's not commercial (apart from violating patented names)?
Depends on the company...
IREM is Japanese, they don't even care about us (M.Jackson)
But deesney is the evil mega corpo from any cyberpunk setting.
They will consume your soul, stole your children and rape your wife even if you just happen to get 3 circles together looking vaguely like Mickey...
Concerning the various upgrades available on CPC/PLUS...
Well the PLUS has a Rom Box : the cartridge...
BTW, I got myself an Arduino 1280... this seems it can be a generic extension...
no time to play with it yet.
BTW it is true : before telling "we'll get a 1024K game using HDD and Mouse and ...."
Just define precisely the concept of the game...
and get a proto-engine... the graphics and sounds will come after, as we may know what are needed and the specifications of the engine...
Post edit : because...
The sounds of win... well, no yet...
Click on this link to DL my WIP Derezzed AY version.
http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1633.0;attach=1224 (http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1633.0;attach=1224)
(http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1633.0;attach=1214;image)
CPC friendly version...
Use only 2 colours, so many additionnal effects (scrollers, sprites, rasters) may be added... yet a rough job and not a lot of time put into this to be honest.
and the original Jpg-ed (massacred) version I found on the web....
Nice graphic concept actually..
(http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1633.0;attach=1216;image)
@Hal: Any help is welcome and very well appreciated.
@MD: Yes, the concept must be worked out preceisely. About a generic machine... there will be some of them. Not the whole game shall look similar.
Soon we start up with the game story and plot.
About doability:
Just to mention an old game... it was a huge project (size of OP probably?) ... it was spanning over four disc sides, it has a huge complex intro, it's able to use expansion RAM or a second CPC as RAM bank (when connected via VN96), it's so complex that nobody ever was able to explore the whole world. It was sold in a box with hand-painted gfx!!!
In the time in which this game was made, there was no help available from the PC like today! They did literally every bit on a real CPC - without any help from emulators or PC based tools.
And now I tell you that this huge mega game was developped by just one coder and just one gfx artist! (Ok, you hear, that they had nobody for sounds ;-)
It's Black Land from the Bollawares! A game worth playing!
http://bollaware.de/ (http://bollaware.de/)
That has been successful done, released, produced and sold!
Today we have a lot of PC tools - like the famous Arkos tracker - that make everything easier.
So we can and will do an even bigger game.
Quote from: hal 6128 on 09:39, 14 January 11
@Xyphoe
Short question: does licence copyrights impact something even it's not commercial (apart from violating patented names)?
Essentially yes, certainly in the job I work I have to deal with lots of 'abuse' complaints about copyright infringement sometimes on the smallest, crappest and definitely non-profit making things.
>It's Black Land from the Bollawares! A game worth playing!
Not a good example : they were only two people, knowing each other very well, having worked together and on a machine they knew well on plenty of games (more than a dozen !). You can't really compete with that. And the technology they used was quite simple, and not very optimised.
Your project is the opposite of that :
- Plenty of people.
- People you've never worked with.
- People, maybe with no experience on CPC.
- You want to use technology you don't know well (at least, not enough for a huge project).
But this is my last post about that. I wish you luck in your project :).
Trg.Aks
Don't worry Thargan, you already helped a lot by doing Arkos-tracker... :police:
;)
I would see this project more like a games compilation sharing a common visual theme...(and story...)
You may play each games individually on lower CPC specs...(=128K+Disk... 6128...)
And get them mixed into a single narrative expérience with more advanced configs (+extra cards (my Arduino doing Extra AY or even Blitter stuffs..?...+extra memory and so on...)
Why not ?
You add layers of games depending of your CPC/Plus's configuration.
Quote- Plenty of people.
Not a problem if there is a good overall manager, the Graphics and Sounds are... specialised jobs that may be handled well by many peoples/teams...
You know ? the slaves/labour ?
Quote- People you've never worked with.
perhaps... well, we all speak the same languages : English and CPC specs...
Internet can work well for such kind of project...
The few projects I worked in ... I never Saw anyone...
Rick Dangerous128+ per example ?
MSN is there for this.
Quote- People, maybe with no experience on CPC.
We have also peoples with experience in this... Well we are.. are we not ?
Even a pure noob like me can be usefull...
Quote- You want to use technology you don't know well (at least, not enough for a huge project).
Ok for this one I can't find any argument...
The thing is... why a "FuturOS" specific game ?
An 8 bit machine can't be bothered by an OS when runing a game...
Just get is going as easily as possible...
So yeah, a strong monoblock Assembler core... dedicated to this game...
For what I know of my PC experience :
PC always was a standard with many specs...
Different RAM (512K ? 640 K ? 1024 K ? 2045 K ? more ?), different Sounds (AdLib ? Sound blaster ? worse ?) and Video (CGA ? VGA ? EGA ? 3D cards ? Amstrad PC1512 or even Tandy ?)
from this point, a lot of games had to be "installed...
=Might and Magic 3 (one of my greatest Gaming experience...)
5 discs (or 3 ?) that enabled you to install the game on HDD... (ok not on like this on CPC then...)
But I could then get it working on a CGA, EGA or VGA... with perhaps 3-4 sounds cards/configs too...
So a game (or bindle of games) that need to be "installed" for the config you want... this is where it is at... even on CPC...
just got to manage it for this.
What i wanted to say is... if the game is THAT complex, it is actually like many games at once... so those "many games sequences can be dispatched into many teams...
ORiONPrime was THAT great because... you were almost only 2 for all this... hence the time it needed to make it released...
But you know, teamwork works...
It may be difficult to re-touch codes... but not graphics or even sounds...
And a game featuring many different sequences can actually be seen as a compilation of multiple games...
Orion Prime...Eobocop, Batman the movie, Robocop 2...
OCEAN did this a lot with it's movie franchises... many subgames...
Some Spanish games in 2 parts (Army moves and so on) were actually 2 games in one.
This is good for Teamwork.
So getting all those subgames re-united with a common visual (Tron oriented...), and a RPG to mix with thoses... why not...
Quote from: Targhan on 01:19, 15 January 11
- You want to use technology you don't know well (at least, not enough for a huge project).
Well, at least I do know it very, very well. And why not share knowledge and sources?
Quote from: Targhan on 01:19, 15 January 11
But this is my last post about that. I wish you luck in your project :) .
Thank's a lot. That's all that counts ;D
Quote from: MacDeath on 01:24, 15 January 11
The thing is... why a "FuturOS" specific game ?
Well, the connection to the OS is probably one of the smallest tasks. So basically it shouldn't matter which OS. To answer your question: Memory Management, drivers for expansion hardware, fastest floppy routines on CPC and so on... it's all there.
But to make a BASIC version at the same time is really no problem, it will just be a bit bigger, since it needs the drivers with it.
Quote from: MacDeath on 01:24, 15 January 11
What i wanted to say is... if the game is THAT complex, it is actually like many games at once... so those "many games sequences can be dispatched into many teams...
Yeah! That's the point! Everybody contributes just a bit, and you contribute what ever you want.
To get it all fully fledged together is maybe not easy, but can be done - since we keep this in mind from the beginning.
Quote from: MacDeath on 01:24, 15 January 11
And a game featuring many different sequences can actually be seen as a compilation of multiple games...
Right, and for everybody there will be a very pleasing part, because every part is different.
Quote from: MacDeath on 01:24, 15 January 11
This is good for Teamwork.
So getting all those subgames re-united with a common visual (Tron oriented...), and a RPG to mix with thoses... why not...
I like your positive way of thinking! That's what we need. Btw: I agree with everything not quoted from you.
As long as we have fun doing it, it will work out. No time pressure, just a project you like to do ;D
So what kind of gameplays would be good to put in such Game ?
perhaps a point : just look how games are made on bigger systems...
Atari ST or 512K Dos PC (CGA...)
This may give some sort of scale to deal with 512K of Stuff...
FuturOS is just meant to be a bundle of Drivers in ROM...ok.
Getting it on PLUS cartridge would be great then.
or getting it Lite version...
The main problem with CPC/PLUS was that the Memory is very limited...
464 (most common) with no good Loading solution (Tape ? lol) and only 64K (the bare minimum) is somewhat...erf...
I never understood why we hadd not more ROM based Games ? I mean basically the extension port is also a Cartridge port...
As too few poeples do have stuff like a HDD... a RAM+ROM based game, plus DiskDrive... is more than enough.
512K ROM + 512+64K RAM...and perhaps 360K (3") or 720K (3"x2 or 3"1/2...) or disk is well a lot of stuff.
The ideal would even to get the internal 3" 2x180K 3"disk working alongside a 3"1/2 external 720K disk.
Huge project ! I'd be tempted to think like Targhan.The 512K ram is not a problem for me a long you bundle it with the game.I can not help you but the only advice i could give is , before programmer , graphist or musician , hire a designer , someone able to federate and canalize other too, who owns a large culture and experience in several domains and who will be able to come with his ideas , centralize other and to synthetize them , someone not involved in programming would be better ;)
Good luck for your project !
Realistically, are people going to pay the kind of money it'd cost for all that extra hardware just to play one single game? I'm not sure I would and that's even assuming the game turns out to be any good. And tying it to the Tron world, even ignoring possible legal issues, makes it even less likely than a game which is free to create a world that suits the game and hardware better.
Also, and maybe I'm just cynical, starting out with the intention of targetting all that extra hardware screams of a game that will just end up making use of hardware for the sake of it rather than because it's actually necessary or improves the game at all.
I think it's admirable to try and take the CPC to the limit with a game and wish you lots of luck.
But I thought it would be worth pointing out that nobody has yet made a 512kb cartridge game. This could contain the video, sampled sound etc you want and would have the benefit of really showing off the Plus, which nobody has ever really done with a big game.
Downside is that classic CPC owners wouldn't be able to play it. But then they already have Orion Prime ;)
Quote from: TFM/FS on 04:53, 16 January 11
As long as we have fun doing it, it will work out. No time pressure, just a project you like to do ;D
I also agree. The CPC itself ist fun. Why else would so many users care? So, why don't start a new game? Go to the limits with some expansions? ...only memory and interfaces. Z80 core, graphics and sound (apart from some simple but effective resistors called Digiblaster) will be always the same.
Let's start and run an experiment and see how well and far those limits mentioned above are? Maybe find new routines, possibilities, effects or just learn new dimensions of a twentyfive years old computer?
Why not? Have a go! Have fun.
We also need people to port it to Gamepark, PSP, Nintendo DS, Amiga, iPhone, Android. 8)
Quote from: MacDeath on 11:25, 16 January 11
So what kind of gameplays would be good to put in such Game ?
perhaps a point : just look how games are made on bigger systems...
Atari ST or 512K Dos PC (CGA...)
Ah no, we can do better. Let's go new ways. We can do that.
Quote from: andycadley on 17:51, 16 January 11
Realistically, are people going to pay the kind of money it'd cost for all that extra hardware just to play one single game?
The price can be kept very low. It will not be expensive. We can produce hardware probably relatively cheap (we got time until the software is finished). And people who already have some extensions get the game for free then.
Further, hardware is universal, you can use it for a lot of different software.
Quote from: hal 6128 on 22:38, 16 January 11
I also agree. The CPC itself ist fun. Why else would so many users care? So, why don't start a new game? Go to the limits with some expansions? ...only memory and interfaces. Z80 core, graphics and sound (apart from some simple but effective resistors called Digiblaster) will be always the same.
Let's start and run an experiment and see how well and far those limits mentioned above are? Maybe find new routines, possibilities, effects or just learn new dimensions of a twentyfive years old computer?
Why not? Have a go! Have fun.
Yeah! Absolutely!!!
Now, let's think about the story of the game first. It will decide what we get on the screen later on.
Now, let's get some ideas who is still there to play a role...
- Tron: While he was falling down at the end of the movie, he turned from Red to Blue, that means he regenerated from CLUs evil code (probably put in Tron during their fight). Ok, now Tron got two discs, so he could stop that fall and survive. Or he could have made a Light-Jet using his discs. So let's say... Tron is still there.
- CLU: Deresoluted by Kevin Flynn. Maybe he get's recoded by Sam Flynn for some reasons and plays than a good guy???
- Kevin Flynn: He turned into a lightball, it may be possible to get him back.
- Sam Flynn: He picked up the virtual world on a memory chip. So one day he may take a second look at it ... point of start in the virtual world
- Quorra: She is in the real world now. Maybe she really changes everything like promised. .... Point of start in the real world.
Mr. Lou already mentioned some ideas about Sam Flynn getting Encom back (also real world)
And for this they need to build up the cyber world again, that would be the most selling thing in world?
Oh, what's about Siren Gem and Custer??? Did they survive the explosion? Maybe, Custer is usually prepared for a lot of things ;) (And Gem is nice)
Now, we can share some ideas and then make a story out of it... When the story is finished, the creation of the game will start :-)
Have a great week programs!
Quotewhat's about Siren Gem
Got to have a backup copy somewhere so we can include her ass in Gameplay... :P
Quote from: MacDeath on 07:47, 19 January 11
Got to have a backup copy somewhere so we can include her ass in Gameplay... :P
Absolutely, she's a program, so it shouldn't be hard to give her a second life, maybe with some updates ;-) And with some sisters ;-)))
EDIT: If we have collected enought ideas here, I try to make a kind of script out of it, upload it and anybody can add ideas and sophisticated weird crazyness ;-)
Ignoring 'hardware' discussions for now....
The idea of splitting the project into sub-games does peak my interest and seems a good idea. Games like The Vindicator are a great project and package with level 2 being a top-down shmup and level 3 being a horizontally scrolling platformer/shmup - it's just let down by the first level being too vast and complicated even with a map you can easily get lost by the confusing 'which direction am I now in' blah.
So one team could write left-to-right scrolling platform/shooty thing ... another a puzzle game ... a drive-em-up ... maybe an Operation Wolf type clone and wrapping everything up an adventure game that goes around everything - all loosely based around a theme and story. Obviously you need to define the characters, who they are and what they look like BEFORE starting anything to keep it consistent (you don't want to end up with a "Roland On The...." situation! LOL)
Obviously the weak point is you might get let down by one team who are lazy or don't finish their part.
I'm now having crazy ideas of ... Mojon Twins could contribute the platforming sub game, Fano and TotO could reskin their R-Type version, Targhan can expand on his car racing sub-game in Orion Prime, etc............ :laugh: OK I'll shut up now :P
...haven't seen the movie "Legacy" so far. It will start in Germany from 27th of January? Therefore I couldn't reconstruct at the moment the whole plot and those new actors (apart the infos from wiki and so on).
I've read that the main story board of LEGACY is about a father-and-son-drama. The Son (Sam) is looking for his lost father (FLYNN). Achieving this target the main actor (Sam) is deepening into virtual world and finally find his father. Between he experienced lots of adventures. That's - all about - is the whole story in the movie.
Sounds - for the first moment - simple and it's a way to move forward.
Through the rough into details.
Let's go.
(Just go crazy a little bit...)
Maybe we need first an aim for the game? What would we reach? Second we could define a current state where we start. (Or vice versa)? Let's see.
1. first define the aim than second the current state... What should we reach? Develope the ideas above...
1.1 Destroy a rogue in virtual or real world who is threatening the virtual or real world?
> E.g. Sam lost the mentioned memory chip with the virtual world someday or it is stolen by accident and somebody want's to hack it. He put the chip into an interface for data manipulation. What the hacker don't now is the virtual world itself and it's past or its dynamic of life. Maybe there's a rest of evil code remains in a safe RAM address, waits for special signal which comes suddenly through the interface while hacking. Now the evil code breaks out of the memory chip and spreads like a VIRUS to PC of the hacker, or later into INTERNET?
In the meanwhile SAM noticed in real world the loss of his memory chip and ist looking for QUERRY to help him searching. Both has to find the chip because they know of the possibility and danger of abuse both real and virtual world . After some coincidences of circumstances they find the hacker. But it's too late. EVIL CODE has already gone or in real world: the amount of used memory in the chip has decreased. Something missed.
They need both TRON (the Fighter > ARCADE) and CLU (the Thinker > RIDDLES/RPG) who both has to find out what has happen and search and hunt in the virtual world the EVIL CODE before he damages the servers in INTERNET (maybe try to start a war between North and South Corea which could end in a nuclear conflict between China and USA?). EVIL CODE is very week at the beginning but is an artifical intelligent programm with the possibility to reprogram himself. His motivation at first is simple - his just a programm: spread and obtain superiority by all means. He couldn't spread independent at the beginning. But he breaks into different server (e.g. Wikipedia), learns with that informations (TIME could be a important role?) to get stronger and so on. So the set of people a group outside (SAM/QUERRY - real world) and inside (TRON/CLU - virutal world) has to challange different task and riddles or somekind of challanges (again opponents, again time, again skills ...) to stop EVIL CODE.
Could be a mixture between arcade, role play game, click and point or whatever.
1.2 Rescue a person who is near, we love, who is important?
> E.g. SAM who has secretly fallen in love with GEM at the end of the movie wants to rescue her and has to get back in virtual world again? Oneday a casual signal reaches SAM out of the memory chip / virtual world. A cry for help. A tiny signal but a start to convince SAM and QUERRY to get back into virutal world?
1.3 Destroy a machine which is threatening virtual world?
> E.g. whatever...
Maybe it is (or not) a interesting idea in principle to split the story in a real world and a virtual world part where two stories (in the beginning with a different condition) aim together in a focal point at the end. Maybe the two worlds can interact and affect their way mutually. Interchange between real and virtual world can take place via digitized into virtual world or "realized" people into real world, information change (Email, Interface between virtual world (chip) and real world like expansion port or Joysticks with a Game > Grid Bugs, MCP Cone, Tanks, Light Cycle or some new stuff).
Or maybe I just stop now. Do not consider me to go mad :)
Quote from: Xyphoe on 04:55, 20 January 11
...Obviously the weak point is you might get let down by one team who are lazy or don't finish their part.
Well, if it happens to only one team, then we will perform better than expected. But you have to calculate these things from the beginning. In such a case somebody else can overtake to make that part ... or you just leave it away.
Quote from: hal 6128 on 13:21, 20 January 11
...haven't seen the movie "Legacy" so far. It will start in Germany from 27th of January? Therefore I couldn't reconstruct at the moment the whole plot and those new actors (apart the infos from wiki and so on).
Take a look at the movie, and expect it do be different than be expected ;-)
Thank's a LOT for this long collection of good ideas! After watching the movie you will probably change some small things f.e. Gem - Quorra. But that doesn't matter. Great ideas!