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Well seeing as no one else has begun this thread may as well try and find out if there is sufficient interest in getting a game developed. And if there is what game would you want ?
My choice would be
Toki.
Gravitar
Revenge of the Mutant Camels 2 Return of the Mutant Camels

I would love to see a stripped-down, 2D version of Dark Souls!

I would go for a proper remake of Shadow of the Beast!!

And any point and click/RPG/text adventure.

A smoother Rick Dangerous, as I hate the slow downs. Yes it's noticable.


However the biggest remake I'd like to see is in direct competition with the C64's remakes of Ghosts n Goblins Arcade and Commando Arcade :)

I think a point and click adventure, but possible something original. Im sure many publishers are fine with remakes but if we'r talking people actually making money from it Im not so sure it would be allowed, so an original title would be a better fit IMHO. Plus as TFM has said we could then exploit the CPC's abilities with a bespoke title

Rick Dangerous 3, now theres an idea!
maybe a follow up to werewolves of london?

whatever it is I don't mind so long as I don't have to be totally sober to understand it!!

My Adventure of Amy game which is a Zelda-type exploration/puzzle game. But I need a coder.



The ZX version is a simplified version of the first task and dungeon done in AGD. No CPC version because AGD on the CPC does not work properly. AGD is nowhere near powerful enough to fit in the entire game.

That game seems a lovely RPG and it should no be very difficult to code it!

Sandbox RPGs, Turn based tactical Wargames, Tower defences, online stuffs.

SCUMM-styled adventures/comedies... perhaps...

And PLUS games of course.

Hey @Puresox (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=511) ! Can you please add a poll with all the mentiones games and maybe a couple more? Wouldn't that be interesting?

I would love to see some decent and playable conversions of classic games like River Raid, Scramble, and Berzerk.

Quote from: Trebmint on 10:20, 07 August 15
I think a point and click adventure, but possible something original. Im sure many publishers are fine with remakes but if we'r talking people actually making money from it Im not so sure it would be allowed, so an original title would be a better fit IMHO. Plus as TFM has said we could then exploit the CPC's abilities with a bespoke title

You inspire me to an idea... Well, let's be honest .. the CPC scene is not the biggest in 8 bit land. But... isn't MSX pretty big? Edoz already did games for SymbOS on MSX and we got an CPC version. So ... crazy idea: Get a team together on CPC and MSX to make a game for SymbOS. And your Unity can make this very easy. What do you think?

I would be interested to know how long people think each game would take to complete.
The time from start with nothing to when it is first released.

Assume each person who is working on it is working on it exclusively.


Another point I would make:

Making a conversion could be easier and quicker. Here the game flow and AI is defined, and all you must do is copy it.
With a new game, there is time that is needed to design the game and then perhaps time is needed to alter it to fit into the cpc.

Quote from: TFM on 17:13, 07 August 15

You inspire me to an idea... Well, let's be honest .. the CPC scene is not the biggest in 8 bit land. But... isn't MSX pretty big? Edoz already did games for SymbOS on MSX and we got an CPC version. So ... crazy idea: Get a team together on CPC and MSX to make a game for SymbOS. And your Unity can make this very easy. What do you think?

I might also say that in many ways FutureOs is the better fit, apart from the MSX side obviously. Without talking for Prodatron I think its safe to say Symbos was never envisaged as a games platform. Yes simpler games work and benefit from the advantages of the OS, it also has an abstraction level which allows it to be cross platform, but that's counter productive when compared to writing directly to hardware.
We have discussed a lite games version of symbos without much of the GUI and task management which would free up a lot of memory and speed, but that would be a distance down the track in time. Something we do plan though.
A combination of CPCTelera and FutureOs would make more sense at the moment I reckon

Quote from: MacDeath on 15:46, 07 August 15
Sandbox RPGs, Turn based tactical Wargames, Tower defences, online stuffs.

SCUMM-styled adventures/comedies... perhaps...

And PLUS games of course.

The CPC and the Plus could handle those, I was amazed at what was getting rleased for it in the late 80s and 90s, still love Purple Saturn Day.

Maybe a decent remake of Mach 3?

Doom if possible, or Castle Wolfenstein

With regard to the Poll, I'll give it a few days for the Games Ideas to come in and stick a poll up then.

Are people interested in sport titles? It's something that doesn't really seem to get mentioned much.

Football game for sure, not that fussed other than that. Tennis games have been done quite well on the Amstrad, Ping Pong was great, Football has been the weak link and I don't feel there is a stellar example, Maybe Emlyn Hughes was close .

Quote from: sigh on 19:05, 07 August 15
Are people interested in sport titles? It's something that doesn't really seem to get mentioned much.

I don't think that nowadays any sports game make any sense on CPC, the reality is that the sports games on CPC are fun if it's played on 2 player mode, because the IA of the CPU usually is easy to beat. And nowadays how many people have neighbours to play a 2 player game on CPC?  :laugh:

Quote from: arnoldemu on 17:41, 07 August 15
I would be interested to know how long people think each game would take to complete.
The time from start with nothing to when it is first released.
Assume each person who is working on it is working on it exclusively.

Another point I would make:
Making a conversion could be easier and quicker. Here the game flow and AI is defined, and all you must do is copy it. With a new game, there is time that is needed to design the game and then perhaps time is needed to alter it to fit into the cpc.

IMHO a good game needs 2 years (one person). A smaller one can be done in less than a year. A real good one 5-7 years or eternity  ;)


But I don't agree about a conversion. I you don't have the source, then a conversion can be even more bugging and time consuming than something new. But ok, if you do HAVE the Z80 source, then conversion can be done quick in some cases. On the other hand, who in 2015 wants to see another speccy port.  :)

Quote from: Joseman on 19:58, 07 August 15
I don't think that nowadays any sports game make any sense on CPC, the reality is that the sports games on CPC are fun if it's played on 2 player mode, because the IA of the CPU usually is easy to beat. And nowadays how many people have neighbours to play a 2 player game on CPC?  :laugh:

Funny, I could thrash my Pentium based computer with a Game of Actua Soccer, but am hopeless competing against the CPC with a game of Matchday II  :laugh:

if i had to choose id prefer it to be an original game :)

if it wasn't an original game then which one would you want to do most like which was the biggest disappointment you ever felt or experienced?

Outrun for me would be number 1 followed by Jail Break and then Rastan Saga

Can anyone tell me if the r-type 128k remake had any issues with copyright owners ?

As for doing a commercial game like Outrun would Sega even care if a new Amstrad CPC version was made from crowd funding i mean as another member put it to me we are talking about a machine that is not commercially viable anymore..............

They give a Shit about the name 'OutRun' it's their property I would think.

Quote from: Puresox on 23:56, 07 August 15
They give a Shit about the name 'OutRun' it's their property I would think.

They do indeed...

All the big companies will protect their IP to the hilt, regardless if its a fan based thing or a small scale commercial effort. They simply won't let their name be used....it may hide under the radar but if they discover it, the cease and desist letters will start flying.

But there's nothing wrong with doing an Outrun "style" game, or an R-Type "style" game, to a certain degree as long as you are not stealing a specific gameplay feature, or you are modifying it enough to be different or enhanced then it becomes a homage, or parody of the original.

So its fine to ask for a remake of Outrun, but you need to change the name, some of the gameplay and add your own features...which if you are serious about a "remake" assumes you are serious about an enhanced remake, so its all possible.

I noticed a point about how long such a game would take... That's actually a great question. Back in the day when I had a PDS dev kit hooked up to my multiface2, working full time I could get a game like outrun done in around 12-15 weeks.. However these days, that's simply not possible. The lack of good debugging/profiling tools that access hardware means its all software based and neither the compilers or the emulators are quite good enough.  Working part time, you're looking at anything from 6 months to a year.

A Colecovision project I am just finishing has taken close to 15 months, but that also had a lot of tools and graphic crunchers in it that I needed to write with less than a day a week to work on it and constant issues with memory (its a 32K ROM system with 1K or RAM)  I've now got some decent tools and a work flow sorted so I can half the time for another project on that if I choose to do it.. CPC is a much nicer and easier machine to work on though, so 6 months is a more viable timeframe assuming 1-2days a week.

Scope of the project is also very very important. I see people asking for 64K versions and 512K versions... well that actually creates 2 different set of issues, less memory means a lot more time wasted on compression and decompression systems and optimised tools to create the assests, more memory means more content to add into the game and manipulate...But also makes it possible to use C compilers for some of the non-speed critical stuff.... Whatever target you pick will have issues, the question really is do you want to run them on hardware...if so you target the most common system...which I assume is a standard CPC 464? Or am I wrong?

nowadays i think that almost everybody has a 128k base machine and about a 70%- 80% have 512k and, 30%-40% mass storage solution.

I think that a lot of people knows one game, and i almost forgot of mention it!!.

For me is one of the best driving racing game, and, one game that perhaps is a good option besides out run.

If you played it, then you know what i talking about, if not, please, see youtube videos or better, play on any emulator.

I don't think that  any IP/license will be a problem because his name is a brand car name and, the publisher I think that is no longer alive: Gremlin Graphics.

The game is:

LOTUS III - THE ULTIMATE CHALLENGE.

One video better than 1000 words:

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXOu_ZTehks#)

Amiga Longplay Lotus III: The Ultimate Challenge - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXOu_ZTehks)

I will go for this game, and pay for it without a doubt!!!

Listen to Brian. He is certainly qualified. He has both the experience and knowledge about this.

:)

From my experience I would say this:

* Target 64KB or 128KB depending on what you prefer. 128KB is a very good machine to target. I target 64KB if I can, but 128KB if I know the project will not fit.

* Try not to think too big if it's a first project because it can easily become overwhelming to get it finished. For example, the number of tasks is so much, the amount of debugging needed, the amount of code, the amount of graphics and sound AND the amount of coordination between team members. You need a "thick skin" and the ability to finish it regardless of if you have got bored or sick of it. I got sick of Sudoku after making my CPC Sudoku game.

* Be prepared that you may not want to play the game yourself when it's done, but others will enjoy it a lot. Same with Sudoku, I've not played my own game. When I finished it, I was relieved and I never felt I wanted to play it again. I had played it so much during development and debugging that I had enough !

* A project always takes longer than you think. There are so many things that you can't plan for. For example, cutting it back to fit into ram or onto the media. Needing to write tools to create the final game dsk etc. Tools to compress things exactly how you need. Tools to convert graphics, tools to organise your data.

* USE SOURCE CONTROL. It doesn't matter if you use subversion, perforce, fossil.. But using some form of source control is THAT important. It gives the freedom to make changes, back them out, try ideas etc. I will repeat USE SOURCE CONTROL. Many times I lost a specific version of the code, or I broke it and it took days to go back to a working version. With source control, you can have different versions of the code, try things out and merge them when you're happy.

* cross compiling is much better than using real CPC for development. It's faster, you can use emulators to debug much quicker, you can use pc editing tools and source control. It takes seconds to make a build you can test, on real CPC it could take much longer.

NOTE: Modern game developers don't write the games on the target hardware! They compile on a PC and transfer it to the real hardware. They often write a load of AI etc on the PC and run it on the PC, then go to the real hardware and check and debug it there.

* ALWAYS test on REAL hardware. Emulators are not 100% accurate. None of them are. There is always something which is a little bit different. MOST important if you are using demo techniques to make smoother hardware scrolling etc.

* ALWAYS test on multiple REAL hardware configurations. Test on multiple CRTCs, test on green and colour monitors, test on 3.5" disc, 3" disc and with various ROM expansions connected just in case ONE will break your game. One user will say "it doesn't work on X configuration". This last part is useful if you want people to run your game who have the minimum spec but with additional connected hardware. Think of the hassle of having to disable and remove hardware to play your game!

* Doing a simple game will take a few months. A big game will probably take about a year or a bit more.

Gremlin may not be trading, but the rights to Gremlin games are still held and protected.

In addition Lotus will probably protect their logo and use of their name.

If you want to make a game, Brian is completely correct. Don't infringe on IP.

Write a similar game, but with cars that look different and don't use any names of companies alive or closed. If you want to race it around a known circuit, you need to alter it slightly so it's not identical.



For example, with Outrun, Sega lost the rights (or the rights expired) to use the Ferrari brand, so they had to change the car a little in their later re-releases of the game. But because they owned the Outrun brand they could keep the rest the same.

I'm not sure what the legalities are on remakes, e.g. to take Outrun on CPC and make it better. It may be considered fan work, it may not.

Quote from: arnoldemu on 10:36, 08 August 15
* Doing a simple game will take a few months. A big game will probably take about a year or a bit more.

Probably what you write it in can depend on Timeframe as well.


Perhaps not relevant to here but Steve Lucas & his 464 was packing out heaps of Text Adventure games in 1984/85/86 as well as some other kid games.
The bulk was Adventure Games, he must of had knocked up an Adventure Game engine in little time given some of that stuff came out after the launch of the 464, though you'd have to be very quick to write up the scripts for those games, either that or that guy had plenty of time on his hands. :)

I'd say poll the platform, 64k, 128k etc... see the results

then poll the game but be flexible, so a specific title to vote for can tell you the game category, general synopsis etc that you would hope for. but the actual project would not be a true remake/ copy reboot. Best to be original in the actual game its self

For me, a Tower Defense or an infinite runner game...

Maybe the Canabalt version we were talking some time ago (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/games/game-idea-cpcanabalt/)...


C'mon! Even the Atari 2600 got one!

Tower Defense game !

If you want any additions to the Poll let us know and I will adapt it to suit.
Advise to use one vote for game and one for Memory limitations. You can do whatever you like though lol ,

Does anyone remember a game called Nether Earth? It was written by Icon Design, when I was there, and I always loved it, it was a kind of very early precursor to modern RTS games... I'd love to see a game like that using the freedom that 512K gives.

Quote from: Joseman on 10:14, 08 August 15


I don't think that  any IP/license will be a problem because his name is a brand car name and, the publisher I think that is no longer alive: Gremlin Graphics.

The game is:

LOTUS III - THE ULTIMATE CHALLENGE.

ummmmm you seem to totally misunderstand the concept of IP, which includes BRAND name... Gremlin paid Lotus, to use the name and logo... Lotus, will not let anyone else use their name or logo without approval which normally requires a license fee, in their case several 10's even 100's of thousands of pounds.

Gremlin themselves are not actually dead, they simple no longer trade, but their brand and all their IP rights are owned by what now remains of Infogrammes, who make their money now, not from making games...but from selling their IP and collecting royalties from people who use them.

If its a recognisable name, brand, trademark, specific gameplay feature which is patented (for example Sega own the concept of ghost cars and you have to pay them if you use ghost cars in a racing game) then you cannot use it... its sad and annoying but this is how the commercial world work.

There is, admittedly some abuse of the system in the fan world, since its usually not worth anyone's time to chase after piffling amounts of money that might be generated by someone doing their own version of Super Lotus vs Ferrari  R-type...but if they want to stop you doing it they can...with nothing more than a legal letter, then all your hard work is lost and you can face a hefty legal cost.

Quote from: Brian Beuken on 19:48, 08 August 15
Does anyone remember a game called Nether Earth? It was written by Icon Design, when I was there, and I always loved it, it was a kind of very early precursor to modern RTS games... I'd love to see a game like that using the freedom that 512K gives.

Yeah I remember that game  and I thought it was brilliant, love the idea of constructing your own robots, any game that has that involved is great fun. The only issue I had with Nether Earth was it was on the slow side , but just about bearable.

Then why not start with a TA or Warcraft2 clone? Make it different enough to be a different game, obviously, but have the same immense gameplay and balance that made those two games the best in their genre. How about a mix of the two; a Warcraft2 clone with the "ages" from Civilisation? Start in the middle ages and grow (via missions) until your into modern/future technology!

Just a thought.

Quote from: Puresox on 19:32, 08 August 15
If you want any additions to the Poll let us know and I will adapt it to suit.

Can you please add, Giana Sisters, Mario Brothers, Mutant Camels and RPG?  :)


EDIT: Thanks! That was instant!  :)

Quote from: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 22:59, 08 August 15
Then why not start with a TA or Warcraft2 clone? Make it different enough to be a different game, obviously, but have the same immense gameplay and balance that made those two games the best in their genre. How about a mix of the two; a Warcraft2 clone with the "ages" from Civilisation? Start in the middle ages and grow (via missions) until your into modern/future technology!

Just a thought.

About what are you dreaming during the nights then? Well, such a project would need a dozen or more coders which really dedicate all their spare time in such a giant project. If would runs smooth only on the 'high end' CPCs and not on 464 (unexpanded).
The management of such a team is very important too. One would need clean defined interfaces and a team prone to struggles and the dark side of the 'human factor'.
One couldn't just start coding. It would be a prerequisite to make a clear plan how this game works.
A year of planning and about 3-5 coding / GFX / Sounds / Songs is the ideal timing, but it may take longer.


The idea it great, but I don't see it coming up now. Most of people are busy finishing own projects anyway. But it would be a nice dream for some future day.

Quote from: TFM on 23:07, 08 August 15
Can you please add, Giana Sisters, Mario Brothers, Mutant Camels and RPG?  :)


EDIT: Thanks! That was instant!  :)

I'm wired up.

So can I butt in again with another observation.......
I know we all love our CPC's but on a technical level, they are utterly appalling machines, very very slow Z80 CPU's, a basic android/IOS tablet is nearly 3500 times more powerful  and has graphic chips to support it.. We have a Z80 and memory.......oh and a sound chip

a Z80 can do
0.58 MIPS at 4 MHz . The CPC is actually effectively a 3.3Mhz chip...due to screen sharing timing hardware.

an ARM A8 such as found in Ipad and Android tablets...
ARM Cortex-A8 2,000 MIPS at 1.0 GHz

that nearly 3500 times faster........3500....think about that. You don't see world of Warcraft on an Ipad...do you? There's a reason, processing all the info in a game like WoW is a major eater of instruction time, our 0.58mips won't cut it.

So while having more memory gives us more room for scope, it does not give us any more processing power, a 4Mhz Z80 is horribly useless at parsing 1000's of NPC's 50 frames a seconds..it could barely managed 20 or so, never mind trying to draw them....which the CPU has to do as well..
This is why the CPC was a slower machine than the Spectrum, more screen memory means more instruction used to shift data around for drawing and less time for data processing.

Its nice to think anything is possible, but there are serious technical limits. Expanded RAM means we can have more graphics, that can mean better animation, less decompressing, simpler sprite draws, pre-scrolled/rotated  graphics,  more sound, bigger playfields, but it won't let us process multitudes more data.

its an interesting discussion, but lets try to be realistic?

The Game 'Dead on Time was a great piece of work  that really showed how a good game could be done on the CPC. I would love it to have some more game Modes added to give a few extra dimensions  for example a twin stick version, a la 'Robotron'. The game is fantastic as it is  with some really intelligent scoring which makes a simple shoot em up  far more engaging .

From wikipedia: "Gremlin Interactive's catalogue and name have since been bought up by Ian Stewart's new company Urbanscan."

Quote from: Brian Beuken on 23:51, 08 August 15
its an interesting discussion, but lets try to be realistic?

agreed.

Everyone take note. My points are not meant to put people off. I am really saying:

be realistic about the size of the game, the time it will take and  the cost if was funded.

I have 2 games which I would like to finish, but it's hard to find a graphics artist who will help!

Quote from: Brian Beuken on 23:51, 08 August 15
So can I butt in again with another observation.......
I know we all love our CPC's but on a technical level, they are utterly appalling machines, very very slow Z80 CPU's, a basic android/IOS tablet is nearly 3500 times more powerful  and has graphic chips to support it.. We have a Z80 and memory.......oh and a sound chip

a Z80 can do
0.58 MIPS at 4 MHz . The CPC is actually effectively a 3.3Mhz chip...due to screen sharing timing hardware.

an ARM A8 such as found in Ipad and Android tablets...
ARM Cortex-A8 2,000 MIPS at 1.0 GHz

that nearly 3500 times faster........3500....think about that. You don't see world of Warcraft on an Ipad...do you? There's a reason, processing all the info in a game like WoW is a major eater of instruction time, our 0.58mips won't cut it.

So while having more memory gives us more room for scope, it does not give us any more processing power, a 4Mhz Z80 is horribly useless at parsing 1000's of NPC's 50 frames a seconds..it could barely managed 20 or so, never mind trying to draw them....which the CPU has to do as well..
This is why the CPC was a slower machine than the Spectrum, more screen memory means more instruction used to shift data around for drawing and less time for data processing.

Its nice to think anything is possible, but there are serious technical limits. Expanded RAM means we can have more graphics, that can mean better animation, less decompressing, simpler sprite draws, pre-scrolled/rotated  graphics,  more sound, bigger playfields, but it won't let us process multitudes more data.

its an interesting discussion, but lets try to be realistic?

I think that the point is to find a game genre that really fits. I mean, it is probably much more realistic to try to do a big point and click adventure like Orion Prime, or a traditional RPG (Eye of the Beholder like) than something that requires tons of high-speed sprites or advanced AI. It would be probably also possible to do a great platform game or something with a slower pace, like Myth  :)

Chase HQ2

Dropzone maybe? or Donkey Kong Jr?

I always thought an overhead dungeon crawler like The Legend of Zelda would work well on a CPC.

Quote from: Dizrythmia on 13:39, 09 August 15
I always thought an overhead dungeon crawler like The Legend of Zelda would work well on a CPC.

Me too... it is basically a static background with a few moving sprites and some animated tiles (for the water, and so on). Using 128 KB it could be a huge game and if we were for 512 KB it could be massive. We could make a lot of towns, different landscapes with dungeons and a very cool lore. I am also quite sure that the friend that is making the graphics for the text adventure we are working in would be very happy to collaborate in something like that, even making concepts for it  :D This is some of his work:

(http://blog.elcomercio.es/eldesvan/files/2013/02/Pag11.gif)

Quote from: Dizrythmia on 13:39, 09 August 15
I always thought an overhead dungeon crawler like The Legend of Zelda would work well on a CPC.

Which is more or less what my game will be. I've tried to do stuff in AGD but its really way too limited. I've got most of the game planned out, most of the graphics done (although I need someone to do bosses, and cutscenes if space allows), music is done. I just need a programmer to make it work. Ideally in 64k.

Quote from: arnoldemu on 10:16, 09 August 15
From wikipedia: "Gremlin Interactive's catalogue and name have since been bought up by Ian Stewart's new company Urbanscan."

Ah I hadn't realised Ian had done that, I googled around and found this
Gremlin Graphics presents: Bounder's World and the return of Super Cars | (http://metro.co.uk/2011/07/22/gremlin-graphics-presents-bounders-world-and-the-return-of-super-cars-88959/)

So he owns the non licensed rights again, note that he bought them...so he's not going to allow anyone to make money off them. And also that he only owns the ones which do not involve a license.. I havn't seen him do much with the IP's though aside from bounder.

I'd like to see a new racing game on the CPC.
And maybe some castloid/metroidvania.

Quote from: Optimus on 22:21, 09 August 15
I'd like to see a new racing game on the CPC.
And maybe some castloid/metroidvania.

like lotus III? [emoji16]

Quote from: Joseman on 22:27, 09 August 15
like lotus III? (http://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji16.png)

Yeah, that would be awesome. One of my favorite classic racing games.

This kind of topic is interesting in itself, but dismisses one important point, in my opinion: the motivation of the game maker! So ok, let's say to everyone wants Hard Driving 2.
Is that motivating for all the coders to know that most people will want/pay for such game, and not the other games they really wanted to code? Let's say I want to code Jet Set Willy 3. It is not motivating for me to code it now that I know that everyone want Hard Driving 2!

As long as you can pay someone to code a game, he can do it with the motivation of the money. All of us are currently only motivated by... motivation. By forcing a team to code a specific kind of game, you will get nothing but a bunch of unmotivated people after a few months, and the project will ultimately fail.

If a team wants to start a new project, maybe an idea would be to start a *small* kickstarter to get a motivational start and provide the fellow subscribers with news and receive feedback which would, hopefully, push the team forward.

Just my 2 eurocents, of course.

And like arnoldemu said, please start with a small project...

a Zelda like game may not really need more than 128k RAM provided multiloadings and use of a 720k 3"1/2 disk... but yeah, loading time can be annoying anyway.
:laugh:

Quote from: Targhan on 22:59, 09 August 15
And like arnoldemu said, please start with a small project...

Failing that, let's start with an existing original project and convert it to CPC. I don't know... how about this little fella (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/other-retro/roland-of-sherwood/msg106431)? Then, maybe at a later date, the existing platformer engine could be used to get Cosmic Prison Commando done, too. (Robocop Prime would need some license removal first, I guess... but...)
Anyway, I always wanted a decent Roland game (unless someone wants to fix the scrolling on RolRopes) and GemSoft never got around to the third RolTime game.

Otherwise, we're all just going to continue contributing to this thread with our chosen game/genre of choice and nothing's going to get done. The only other thing is to ask the coder himself what game he would like (as Targhan kinda suggested above), then the rest of the creative team can get on with whatever else is required (graphics, sound, etc). The rest of us only have to dig into our pockets if we so wish to support it.

Just received a reply back from Phillip Oliver -

"Go right ahead and use what you like, you'll have no challenge from us, only compliments.
Happy to try and give a little advice, but I can't think it'll be that helpful.
Do check out out YouTube channel. You'll hopefully find the let's Play videos fun and informative.
All the best,
Philip"

"By all means take any ideas &  graphics from any of our old games... But make it your own. Make it unique &  come up with a new name. Re Dizzy, do Check out  http://www.yolkfolk.com (http://www.yolkfolk.com)

Phillip"


So I wonder if other companies would be as kind as the Oliver's ?  We can only hope  ;D

I think that there are many considerations that need to be respected when trying to create a game on the CPC and being realistic is a major factor, but also a very tricky concept to adhere too. What exactly is realistic?

The reason I'm asking this is because you never know what you may learn or produce from trying out a seemingly impossible and wild idea. New techniques are more likely to be discovered when trying to achieve the ambitious even if the idea has to be scrapped due to being overambitious. As creating the beat em up game (the title of the game is "No Holds Barred", but I don't think that the poll is referring to it?) with arnoldemu as I have stated before, has had many thoughtful ideas in regards to tackling the AI, because there is a lot going on in this game. Myself - I've been stretching the animations and move sets to create something that isn't really seen much in 2d side scrolling beat em ups and we have no idea if we can fit it all in, but we wont know until we try.

The football game is another example. It's an extremely ambitious project in regards to programming as I have a huge sprite sheet consisting of those 16x16 characters animated doing things from diving headers, bicycle kicks to diving goalies, on screen referees and linesman, along with an interesting way to get pixel smooth scrolling which hasn't been tested yet.

Will it work? No idea!

Of course, I could easily cut down the amount of animations and just opt for having a hardware scroll, but it would end up like a small sprite version of Emlyn Hughes which would be neither challenging or interesting to me. I'm also unsure if it would create new ways of thinking on how concepts within graphics, sound and programming could be handled, unless it's pushed past being what would be considered realistic.

So if people do decide they want a WOW game or an Uncharted game then, it would be better to take 2 or 3 "special" elements from that game in order to produce a "feeling" of what makes that game, rather than try to squeeze everything in that game into a 2d environment.
For instance - you want Dark Souls? Name three features that you "feel" that make Dark Souls what it is. As an example lets say epic boss fights, large map and dying a lot. You could reimagine as a top down game, mode 1 graphics with a limited tileset, small extremely limited animated sprites and then for the boss fights, you could multiload them in and then go to town on the AI and graphical/animations/sound on that particular part of the game.

For me - I don't want realistic to stop people from trying and exploring new methods otherwise things will be slow to change.

I love people voting for a 512k game. So the 2 people with 512k expansions can play the game on real hardware and there rest of us have to suffer with a rotten old emulator.


Make a game for everyone. 64k base with a 128k enhanced version. Not a game for a few people with memory expansions.

Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 15:10, 10 August 15
I love people voting for a 512k game. So the 2 people with 512k expansions can play the game on real hardware and there rest of us have to suffer with a rotten old emulator.


Make a game for everyone. 64k base with a 128k enhanced version. Not a game for a few people with memory expansions.

I'm not agree with this, just ask for the sales of x-mem, the sales of Symbiface II and other mem expansions, 80%-90% of actual cpc users have this expansions...

Is just silly to ask for a 64k's game nowadays, if you think that 64k's  is ok, then, you ask for a 464 version of the game, I suposse that you will not use any disc solution for the game then... and wait 10 minutes every time to load the game and 5 minutes for every level...

Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 15:10, 10 August 15
I love people voting for a 512k game. So the 2 people with 512k expansions can play the game on real hardware and there rest of us have to suffer with a rotten old emulator.


Make a game for everyone. 64k base with a 128k enhanced version. Not a game for a few people with memory expansions.

It is difficult (at least in my clumsy hands) to make a 64k game and not to use a disc drive if you really aim to create something different from what has been already made (with different I mean bigger and more complete, I do not dare to say better). Even with the text adventure we are making you can feel the difference because it means many more graphics and much richer text. You can also increase the overall speed of the things by completely skipping vector graphics. Considering the price of the expansions (I think that it is not high at all) and taking into account that any CPC can be upgraded, I guess that is quite reasonable to produce a game that at least uses 128 KB and 720 Kb disc drive.

well this is certainly one lively topic!

I will go have a long think before casting my vote.

I imagine that if the results are conclusive enough, any coders that are exited or feel happy to tackle one of the leading results could declare an interest in it  and perhaps share their vision before committing untold hours etc...

I don't see that there should be any big rush at this early stage to make plans etc, as everything is non commital at the moment.
Lets just see whats on peoples minds .......

Quote from: Joseman on 16:20, 10 August 15
I'm not agree with this, just ask for the sales of x-mem, the sales of Symbiface II and other mem expansions, 80%-90% of actual cpc users have this expansions...

Exactly.  8)
By the way, peoples who only want 464 tapes programs are mostly nostalgic players and finally don't care about new games.  ;D
Earing tape loading during 2mn to show the splash screen is enough... They reset after and not play, because it's too long!  :-\
Others don't understand technical limitations and always dream about impossible things and finally draw mockups for PC fakes.  :laugh:

Quote from: Joseman on 16:20, 10 August 15
I'm not agree with this, just ask for the sales of x-mem, the sales of Symbiface II and other mem expansions, 80%-90% of actual cpc users have this expansions...

Is just silly to ask for a 64k's game nowadays, if you think that 64k's  is ok, then, you ask for a 464 version of the game, I suposse that you will not use any disc solution for the game then... and wait 10 minutes every time to load the game and 5 minutes for every level...

Do you have any proof that 90% of CPC owners have a memory expansion or did you just pull this figure out of the air.

Quote from: TotO on 17:30, 10 August 15
Exactly.  8)
By the way, peoples who only want 464 tapes programs are mostly nostalgic players and finally don't care about new games.  ;D
Earing tape loading during 2mn to show the splash screen is enough... They reset after and not play, because it's too long!  :-\
Others don't understand technical limitations and always dream about impossible things and finally draw mockups for PC fakes.  :laugh:

Eventually somebody got the balls to point it out!  ;D

I've read this thread in disbelief. Basically it appears all some people want is to produce games for setups only a few hardcore CPC owners own.


Fair enough but it will do nothing for the community other than keep a few fanboys happy in their bedrooms with expansions hanging out of the back of their CPC's.


To actually say 464 owners are only interested in nostalgia and don't play games is grossly offensive. Such comments make me ashamed to be a CPC user. Not everyone can afford a 6128, not everyone can afford memory expansions or has the knowledge to acquire or use them. Not everyone is a CPC fanboy posting on an exclusive forum with super pimped up CPC at their disposal.


If you want to make a game for just you, then go ahead. If you want to make a game which everyone can enjoy then think again.


It's far more of a technical achievement to program something for all but can still take advantage of improved hardware than just to program a game only a few people can run.


I've said my piece. I'm going to a darkened room to lie down.

Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 18:09, 10 August 15
It's far more of a technical achievement to program something for all but can still take advantage of improved hardware than just to program a game only a few people can run.

This. 100%.

Personally ,I think the project should aim for a game that is manageable, seeing as though there are many factors that have not been tried before on the Amstrad scene, I don't think anyway. Keep it simple for the starters , as a proof of concept.  If the project is too complex , it will fall on its face and I imagine that'll be the end of it.

I agree. And lets not forget, new friendships will be formed in the process so if the first small project goes well other things may occur after.

Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 18:09, 10 August 15
Not everyone can afford a 6128, not everyone can afford memory expansions

Are you kidding? An X-MEM is only 30 Euros. Even if you have no job and life from salvation army, then this is less than 10% of your monthly income. How much money do you spend for other things? 30 Euro is too much? Really?

Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 17:55, 10 August 15Do you have any proof that 90% of CPC owners have a memory expansion or did you just pull this figure out of the air.

I have the proof than at less 120 single peoples own 512K RAM to use on a real CPC, TODAY. (all emulators users have 512K RAM too...)
Do you have the proff than more than 10 users have only 64K and don't want more?  :-\

here in spain i go to sites called "rastro" i've bought docens of 6128 for 5 euros each one, you are relly kidding right?

Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 17:55, 10 August 15

Do you have any proof that 90% of CPC owners have a memory expansion or did you just pull this figure out of the air.

Do you read the same forum than I?

Toto and prodatron some time told us the units sold of SF2 and X-mem, HUNDREDS...

Quote from: Joseman on 18:34, 10 August 15
here in spain i go to sites called "rastro" i've bought docens of 6128 for 5 euros each one, you are relly kidding right?

Well, 5 Euros are 1-2 pints of beer! It's a personal decision. *duck and away*

Come on guys, instead of making the next RAM wars we really should make a game! I got an idea:

This will be a multiplayer game using the MultiPlay and the SymbOS network features. Gamers can belong to two groups: i) You are the tough 464 only fighter using 464 keyboards to chop your enemies. ii) You are the X-MEM user firing small expansion cards at the enemy.


Game set: *MATCH*

So at least more than 300 CPC users got a 512KB Ram expansion during the last 10 years :) Sounds a little bit strange, if someone wants a 64K game only.

My dream was always an RTS, especially a Warcraft 1 or 2 clone for the CPC.
As they did it on the Spectrum...




...it should be possible on the CPC somehow as well. Maybe I have time for this in 10 years or so :D

I see what Chinny hill is saying , What I am after for this game is something that is going to reach the most and gonna show what the standard 128k CPC's can do , so I'd rather get the casual retro computer user to have a look at what the Amstrad is all about . Having a game which is maxed out is only gonna support the speccy and C64 fanboys argument that , the CPC is lacking and can only compete with extras under the bonnet.




Oh and who are the programmers coders, graphics guys , who may be putting there skills to use? What are your opinions on it all?

Well... I think that there is something between a completely pimped CPC 6128 Plus and a vanilla 464. In 2015 I do not think that is unreasonable at all to target at least 128KB and a 720KB disc drive. Let´s be honest, maybe not everybody has every hardware piece but how many users are still using a standard 464, as it was in 1984, on a regular basis? Many developers were targeting 128 KB back in the days, it does not seem very logic to go for the most basic setup now.

Quote from: [[C|-|E]] on 19:39, 10 August 15
Let´s be honest, maybe not everybody has every hardware piece but how many users are still using a standard 464, as it was in 1984, on a regular basis?


Ahem *raises hand*



why is this forum doing weird things.  A blank image square keeps appearing and messing up my quoting.
won't even let me fix it with an edit.
(http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/resource://jid1-xgtdawe3yyuebq-at-jetpack/data/download_off.png)

OK, you are one of them!  :D

....

@Puresox (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=511)  you having the quoting strangeness too? 
(http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/resource://jid1-xgtdawe3yyuebq-at-jetpack/data/download_off.png)

You should never quote [[C|-|E]] messages, as his nickname is confusing the BBC code handling  ;D ;D

Yup, it seems to be mi nick´s fault  :-X

Quote from: Joseman on 16:20, 10 August 15
I'm not agree with this, just ask for the sales of x-mem, the sales of Symbiface II and other mem expansions, 80%-90% of actual cpc users have this expansions...

I don't own any of them - yet. :laugh: I may consider buying an X-MEM at some point, though...

QuoteIs just silly to ask for a 64k's game nowadays, if you think that 64k's  is ok, then, you ask for a 464 version of the game, I suposse that you will not use any disc solution for the game then... and wait 10 minutes every time to load the game and 5 minutes for every level...

Who said that any new 64K game had to be a multi-loader?

I'd love to see a CPC version of Where Time Stood Still..

Quote from: chinnyhill10 on 18:09, 10 August 15
If you want to make a game for just you, then go ahead. If you want to make a game which everyone can enjoy then think again.

It's far more of a technical achievement to program something for all but can still take advantage of improved hardware than just to program a game only a few people can run.

I agree totally. One of the reasons I was so impressed with CNGSoft's version of Bubble Bobble is that, despite the sometimes flickery sprites, he managed to squeeze the entire game into 64K of memory, in a single load, and make it compatible with a standard CPC464.

I see nothing wrong with writing a new game that will work on 64K machines. If our favourite CPC games from the 1980s and early 1990s ran in 64K, then there's no reason why today's CPC fans should somehow be prevented or discouraged from doing so.

Quote from: Nich on 20:35, 10 August 15
I agree totally. One of the reasons I was so impressed with CNGSoft's version of Bubble Bobble is that, despite the sometimes flickery sprites, he managed to squeeze the entire game into 64K of memory, in a single load, and make it compatible with a standard CPC464.

I see nothing wrong with writing a new game that will work on 64K machines. If our favourite CPC games from the 1980s and early 1990s ran in 64K, then there's no reason why today's CPC fans should somehow be prevented or discouraged from doing so.

And I have enjoyed running that much improved version of Bubble Bobble often on my 464.   Thanks again CNGSoft for righting what once went wrong.   :) 

Quote from: Carnivac on 19:50, 10 August 15
@Puresox (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=511)  you having the quoting strangeness too? 
(http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/resource://jid1-xgtdawe3yyuebq-at-jetpack/data/download_off.png)

Well sort of , I was editing a previous post ,and somehow it posted my alterations as  another reply, so I had to delete all the post and put dotted lines cos I had to have something written. The system wouldn't allow me to delete the post . If you can understand what I mean?!?

i understand the discussion and the debate and its a damn healthy one and that and i love reading through it just fantastic....

i just hope the thread doesn't get bogged down in one aspect or another....

after all build it and they will come.....

meaning that if this is a crowd funded / Kick starter project then it really doesn't matter what type of game or what type of format be it 64k, 128k, cpc plus, 512k etc etc the whole point of a crowd funded / kick starter program is to get it backed and the project developed.

If you look at the usual crowd funded / kick starter projects they have pledges of different tiers for example then if you pledge $20 ( i dont have the pound or euro sign on my keyboard) then you get a 64K tape version if you pledge $30 you get 2 x 64k tapes, if you pledge $40 you get a 128k disk version and so on and so on....

If the crowd funded / kick starter project reaches stretch goal one you get a free poster with your purchase if it reaches stretch goal 2 you get a poster and t-shirt etc etc etc

food for thought  :)

dammit, I'm voting for a 64k poster then!!!

Further to my previous posts - I've also seen a few rather good Spectrum games over the last few years and I don't have a problem with having CPC versions of these games - although obviously I would like to see the graphics redrawn in MODE 0 or MODE 1 with multi-coloured sprites!

Again, a lot of well known CPC games from software houses such as Ocean, US Gold, Virgin Games, Gremlin Graphics and Hi-Tec Software were based on the Spectrum version, even though they may not look like blatant Spectrum ports.

If the source code is available for these newer Spectrum games then it should (hopefully) take less time to convert them to the CPC than to rewrite a completely new game from scratch.

If you are going Kickstarter you MUST hit the widest possible audience. People need to be able to play it and buy physical copies.


If you want a reminder of what happens to a CPC game aimed at a limited hardware spec, look at Fluff. Plus only. Sold about 3 copies didn't it despite getting on the cover of Amstrad Action?


I don't see why people aren't simply saying "lets do a Prehistotik 2 and give something to everyone". Seems more like a small niche want a game for their own setup and nobody elses. And lets remember how well the Amiga community did with that kind of thinking in late 90's!

Given the way games have moved forward in the last 25 years it makes more sense to me to make something new that incorporates some of the new gameplay ideas.

It has for me been very sobering to see the videos of some of my old games...they are it has to be said, of their time...incredibly primitive compared to stuff I did 10, 15 and 20 years later... But there were genuine reasons for that, not just my limits as a jobbing coder, the machines were very limited to what they could do.
Imagine ..these days I can do real time raytracing code in HD, on an CPC It would take a day to do 1 frame.... The power of the machine creates massive limits on what you can do..

I voted for an original game, hopefully one that puts gameplay and fun ahead of tech eye candy... I'd also say 128K is the way to go, with options to make use of the 512K if its there... since the Z80 actually only sees 64K at a time (and 32K is going to be screens) the actual usage of memory tends to be for data storage, 512K only really gives you faster access to it, though there are clever ways to use it. If you're going to make a game for the market, target the most common system. That would seem to be the 6128.

a couple of observations based on my involvement with the c64 games scene these days:

1) The KS situations is precarious, Ghosts n Goblins arcade which I am sure you understand is a major c64 release has a download log on disk of 4k downloads. Now IF such a game was sold, experience says that you could expect a conversion rate of 10%, so thats 400 folks willing to pay money for a major new highly requested game on a format whose users vastly outnumber the cpc. You can see where I'm going with this? The numbers just dont add up.

Also on the KS front, ANY attempt to reboot, redux or generally tart up an existing IP for CPC is likely to end in a cease and desist order at best, a lawsuit at worst. You simply cant just KS somebody else's  IP and expect to get away with it. It's precisely the reason why Prince of Persia, Commando arcade, GnG arcade and Donkey Kong jr have all been freebies on the c64.

2) Pitching hardware requirements at the lowest common denominator I think will just run any new games slap into the same brick wall that saw you have some fairly shoddy conversions in the 80s. Its pointless looking at speccy stuff and wanting 16 colour graphics and expecting it to run in 64k because you know full well that if the speccy version fills 48k then the graphics being exponentially bigger on the cpc will carry the damned thing over the 64k boundary with ease. Take Dropzone for instance which I mentioned in an earlier post, a 2 offset landscape the size of the c64/atari in 16 colours required to give a 25hz scroll at the same rate as the c64 and atari a8 versions would cost 2x13k just for the small strip of background data. contrasting with the approx 4k required on the c64 version.

I think to get the sort of games that you have an expectation of, you must also realise that 128k disk should really be your target format. In the same manner that c64 thinking is coming round to large capacity cartridge being the format of choice.

I voted for a new, original game and 128Kb (512Kb would be cool as I own a X-Mem but I didn't want to seem greedy  :P ).
I just feel new ideas, gameplay elements and fresh graphics / sound just make for a exciting game when put into the hands of an enthusiastic and capable coding team.
I just want to play fun games on my CPC (whether old or new) and drink beer while doing it and I personally think the best productions for any game are when the team making the game are doing the same thing. (they can choose which beverage fills said void.)  ;)

As soon as pressure, expectations and limitations start playing on the teams minds, products don't get finished or they're released in a stripped down not as we envisioned version and nobody wants that. I say assemble a team who will be able to work together for the long haul and who have the same vision of delivering a high quality product.

So, in saying all that please make a warcraft RTS game.  :laugh: (kidding)... Hey who threw that...

gotta remember no every computer specific games are arcade styled.

a 512k RAM RPG could really show what was missed by CPC, a nice turn based Might and Magic 3 style game with campaign editor...

concerning arcade games, 128k RAM+disk or even 512k cartridges for GX4000/PLUS is where it's at.

just to have multiloading 128k is quite enough for great graphic variety and tricks to get faster access to graphics (pre shifted sprites, no need to try to fit into only 64 k with half of it used by screen RAM... no need to compress datas...)

Also a nice 1vs 1 fight game à la street fighter. big horizontal full screen can render the use to scroll useless and No Exit was such a missed opportunity.
(http://www.cpc-power.com/extra_lire_fichier.php?extra=cpcplus&fiche=3575&slot=2&part=A&type=.png)
used a lot of demo tricks, though.

Barbarian remastered into Death Sword 128k was quite a fun way to get sweet revenge on the past.
(http://www.cpc-power.com/extra_lire_fichier.php?extra=cpcold&fiche=10382&slot=4&part=A&type=.png)
with a few extra boobs, yet no 1vs 1 mode...  :(
also sadly the sprites are still encoded in 2bpp but yeah it was jsut a patch/mod after all.
Same with Barbarian2...
could have been so much better on PLUS provided proper "port" and at least 256k Cartridge.

some french games could get some almost 16 bit feeling...

Night hunter, thargan, back to the golden age (sort of games in the same vein as barbarian2 actually...) had quite an Atari ST / PC CGA feeling...
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcYQROTwr74#)
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhPXgXAKono#)
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncHMRxlVxfE#)
with proper RPG mechanics and a "campaign map" in the same fashion as Super mario 3 on NES... on  such games could be really great...
Also Wonderboy 2.

or Moonstone !!!
or North and south.

all those games should get "original clones" with brand new theme but in the same vein.


also to try some custom controllers could be nice.

GX4000/PLUS can cumulate the digital joysticks and Analog port into nice multi button/D-pad controllers.
And an extra joystick card is under dev.

Gryzor like games or Xybots like games could also get huge tries.

Xybot was really nice in the concept.
The CPC version is even not the worse one actually.
compare to c64 and Speccy...

C64
(http://www.lemon64.com/games/screenshots/full/x/xybots_01.gif)

CPC :
(http://www.cpc-power.com/extra_lire_fichier.php?extra=cpcold&fiche=1444&slot=2&part=A&type=.png)

Speccy :
(http://www.cpc-power.com/extra_lire_fichier.php?extra=portage&fiche=1444&slot=1&part=V_1444_spectrum02.png)

So just imagine xybot with the corridor's graphics of Gryzor...
(http://www.cpc-power.com/extra_lire_fichier.php?extra=cpcold&fiche=144&slot=6&part=A&type=.png)

And playable in network... yeah ok...


Pick N'Pile with a proper mouse ?

[youtube width=640 height=480]https://youtu.be/Jw3Ar1mXF8Q[/youtube]


Something GTA-esque?

APB ?



Toobin too was "to bin"... shame as the vertical scrolling wasn't the hardest to implement and 256x256 sized screen is great as well for such game.


(http://www.cpc-power.com/extra_lire_fichier.php?extra=cpcold&fiche=2150&slot=6&part=A&type=.png)
hey, were is my 4th colour ?

There are plenty of games in the Amstrad's catalogue that the Amstrad can do and run fine in the limitations of 64k and 128k. Really don't think that were really looking at things to compete with modern technology.And I think most of the games that were crap on the Amstrad compared to the other systems was more to do with  it being the last in the queue.
What was the size of Subhunter? btw

Quote from: Puresox on 01:49, 11 August 15
What was the size of Subhunter? btw

64K.  Bear in mind it's not directly comparable to a commercial era title because it uses modern compression a lot.  The game would still be more or less 'achievable' without it, but you'd be looking at some of the 'usual' things like most of the graphics reduced to 2bpp mode 0 (expanded prior to a level so no speed impact), perhaps a few less animation frames, less music and possibly lower resolution,smaller or absent end game screen and/or title logo graphics.

I would say look towards mobile games and web games, some of these are achievable on the cpc but adapted for cpc's display and inputs.

I voted original idea and other (sports/racing/smooth vertical scrolling shoot em up/1 on 1 fighter/rpg/top down racer....the list goes on).
However - something that I think that the CPC could really do with, is a good music game. But for that, we would need a good music and sound creation program to begin with.

I would generally focus on the 128k, but the 64k is a good challenge.
Problem is, in the current game I work I downgraded to 64k but I don't think I have enough space for double buffering. Therefore, it might have flickering sprites. Unless I somehow time it with the refresh, although I am less than a VBL already.
But I plan to finish this 64k version and in parallel update and release also the original 128k version and maybe a GX4000 cartidge version.
The interesting thing of the GX4000 is the extra cartidge area. In my current project it's possible with some relocation of my data to keep double buffering. And there is a lot of extra space for additional levels and all that. GX4000 cartidge space is very interesting.

After seeing a discussion on Twitter based on this thread I decided, after a good long thought, to give my 2c. Maybe no one cares, but hey, lots of others did it before me :D


So, in essence: being absolute is STUPID. There, got it off my chest.


The best comment I saw on Twitter (sorry, forgot who posted that) was that this is a question posed by people who don't develop games (but the same person went on to post a second, silly comment about how "no developer intentionally limits their audience", forgetting the countless of occasions where people decided to code for a more advanced platform with a smaller user base). I think that a developer himself is motivated internally mostly and foremost and such a debate can be detrimental to the process. However, the discussion has been quite interesting insofar as it doesn't degenerate to a sort of fanaticism about pure/expanded configs.

Advocating in an absolute manner for "enhanced" titles is stupid:
-it may be more difficult for coders and those coders who feel comfortable with 64/128k may feel demotivated and intimidated.
-indeed some people won't be able to play the title on their real hardware.
-coding for limited platforms is an art in its own and should not be discounted.
-saying that 90% of CPC users owns a mem expansion is probably way too much (that said, probably tons of people do have one indeed).


Advocating in an absolute manner for "pure" titles is stupid:
-why should everyone go for the lowest denominator? Sure, many people may not have expansions and whatnot, but is that a reason to restrict our horizons? It's not like expansions are expensive either these days. We have a wonderful base hardware and we are lucky to have an abundance of excellent, cheap add-ons. Sure, some people cannot afford even these - but so what? I, for instance, couldn't get the RTC because of the capital controls imposed in Greece. Would that mean I'd hold anyone a grudge if they developed, say, a Little Computer People-like, RTC-dependent title? Hell no. I'd welcome it with open hands. Heck, many users here don't even have a real CPC, what does that mean?
-so I guess people should only code with the 464 in mind? Because even making a game that can run on a 464 but takes advantage of the extra 6128 memory would require a drive to be played on the 464 (or are we talking about two distinct versions?).


I, for one, would love to see titles taking advantage of recent developments. I long for a game that frees a coder from the limitations of old and allows his abilities and imagination to run wild without having to focus on how to compress the hell out of things to fit them.


But this, of course, doesn't mean I don't appreciate every single title that can run on a pure 64k machine. Or that I hold a grudge against the coder who doesn't take advantage of all my paraphernalia. We have few titles appearing on our platform and we must understand that people primarily code them for their own enjoyment - demanding things from them is ridiculous either way. You don't have an expansion and the new super RPG requires 512k? Tough luck. Either get one or shut up-because you can't keep up it doesn't mean nobody should. You do have every single board out there but the latest shooter is 18KB long and only available on cassette? Wow, what a first world problem. Go tell your mum, maybe she can code that bullet hell for you.


...


Apologies for sounding angry. I find the whole infighting mind-blowingly stupid. Come on, guys. This is not the place to get your complexes out. Be happy with what you've got and what is given to you.

meanwhile in darkened basement someplace a game may yet be developed!

I'd like to see the Amiga classic Another World ported to the humble CPC...

Excluding the animated movie sequences, it looks like it could work.

Quote from: zeropolis79 on 20:47, 11 August 15
I'd like to see the Amiga classic Another World ported to the humble CPC...

Excluding the animated movie sequences, it looks like it could work.

uhohhhhh how can i forgot that!!!

Flashback the second part!!!!

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3nMpvwqAiA#)

or!!!

black thorne!!!

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCaGHwfugNw#)

Quote from: zeropolis79 on 20:47, 11 August 15
I'd like to see the Amiga classic Another World ported to the humble CPC...

Excluding the animated movie sequences, it looks like it could work.

But in this game the only thing which is cool ARE the animated sequences!  ;)


@Gryzor (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1) : You win the price for using the word "stupid" the most often in one post. But you are right, a lot of people who never made a game talk very loud here.  :-\

Just a few words (instead of coding, damn :)):
It took us FIVE YEARS to finish Orion Prime, with ONLY 128K to fill and a 800k disk. FIVE YEARS, and both myself and Sylvestre were quite experienced at what we were doing. So I really wonder how long it will take to the coders/artists wanting to fill 512 ram and a hard drive. That is what I talk about when I think about "realism". Using extra memory to avoid loading is a good idea however. But filling it with raw data is really, really a death trap in my opinion.

Some years ago, The Futurs' team worked on an adventure game called Aventury. They never stopped adding new ideas as soon as they were available, such as network. Well, it became too big and nothing was ever released, the project was cancelled.

I think that basing your game on what can be done is not a good idea. Instead, focus on what YOU WANT to do, what the game is about. Write as many things as possible on paper, scripts, maps, and so on, using fake graphics. Then only can you judge how long it will take to finish the game, and if you require alien technology.

It would be nice to see some little bit improved versions of old games like Gryzor with srolling, Dizzy and Lotus in 16 colors, SimCity and Lemmings on a bigger screen, etc. It could be a long list. ;)

Or to convert fantastic games from Amiga like:  CannonFodder, FlashBack, Worms, TheSettlers, PushOver, Lotus3, Skidmarks, ChaosEngine (this recently appear on Spectrum), DesertStrike, Lemmings2, Syndicate, ThemePark, FirstSamurai ... etc. etc. Work for long years. ;)

Or even from PlayStation like:  Driver, GTA, TombRaider, MetalGearSolid ... which exist on GameBoy, of course, as 2D. :)

Or it could be better to start from collect and make public a set of procedures that would make ease writing less able programmers, like:  display sprites, scrolling screen, using overscans, make menus, etc.
I know here on this forum are some brilliant programmers, but not all are like that, and why re-invent wheel all over again, after someone already did it perfect?  I think more reasonable is to make them life easier and encourage them to work even those who can't write it themselves start from zero.

Or to enliven whole community just start from something easier as competition for new better versions of start images to old games, for examples steal from other platform. In ZX Spectrum community this is quite popular form of activity. ;)

I really wish sigh will finish that promising beat them all.

Quote from: jbaudrand on 06:57, 12 August 15
I really wish sigh will finish that promising beat them all.

it is still in active development. :)

Quote from: ZbyniuR on 06:39, 12 August 15
...make public a set of procedures that would make ease writing less able programmers, like:  display sprites, scrolling screen, using overscans, make menus, etc.
I know here on this forum are some brilliant programmers, but not all are like that, and why re-invent wheel all over again, after someone already did it perfect?  I think more reasonable is to make them life easier and encourage them to work even those who can't write it themselves start from zero.

This could be very helpful to aspiring programmers, this was also the intention behind the Firmware, which programmers did not use as the routines were not fast enough, but a new library of fast, customisable routines that could be incorporated into new software would be good.

Quote from: steve on 10:58, 12 August 15
This could be very helpful to aspiring programmers, this was also the intention behind the Firmware, which programmers did not use as the routines were not fast enough, but a new library of fast, customisable routines that could be incorporated into new software would be good.

How about the amount of memory the Firmware took up? Heaps of Games were initially being written using Firmware, though according to you weren't fast enough.

Quote from: AMSDOS on 11:58, 12 August 15

How about the amount of memory the Firmware took up? Heaps of Games were initially being written using Firmware, though according to you weren't fast enough.

This was simply what I read, I don't know exactly why the firmware went out of fashion, but my post was simply to say that a new library to help new priogrammers would be good, why start a fight over it?

Quote from: steve on 12:11, 12 August 15
This was simply what I read, I don't know exactly why the firmware went out of fashion, but my post was simply to say that a new library to help new priogrammers would be good, why start a fight over it?

Not saying a new library is necessarily a bad thing, though the firmware takes up a chunk of memory, much of which isn't used & for a large game, benefits from it's own set of routines.

I see the proposed library being a set of routines stored on disk which the programmer can choose to include in a program or not, so no unnecessary space taken up.

Quote from: steve on 12:29, 12 August 15
I see the proposed library being a set of routines stored on disk which the programmer can choose to include in a program or not, so no unnecessary space taken up.

cpctelera??

sorry that never works in assembler.

ONE coder might be able to get away with that for himself or his close knit team, but to think that many disassociated coders could just include a binary to display sprites and have it work for all is just pie in the sky i'm afraid. Far too many ways of doing things on none hardware based machines and a myriad of different registers/methods that coders use in different ways.

also the last thing you need as a coder is a "wildcard" routine bolted in your code which you have no idea how it really works.

It comes down to this: If you need such libraries you dont have the knowledge to use them anyway, and if you know how to use them you dont need them because you can already write them. Catch22

if you want to go this route then what you should be aiming at is a database of example code and more importantly a well documented THEORY behind the code so aspiring coders could look up example sprite routines etc and adapt to what they need.

the c64 scene has a similar site: http://codebase64.org/doku.php (http://codebase64.org/doku.php)

Quote from: STE86 on 13:07, 12 August 15
sorry that never works in assembler.

ONE coder might be able to get away with that for himself or his close knit team, but to think that many disassociated coders could just include a binary to display sprites and have it work for all is just pie in the sky i'm afraid. Far too many ways of doing things on none hardware based machines and a myriad of different registers/methods that coders use in different ways.

also the last thing you need as a coder is a "wildcard" routine bolted in your code which you have no idea how it really works.

It comes down to this: If you need such libraries you dont have the knowledge to use them anyway, and if you know how to use them you dont need them because you can already write them. Catch22

if you want to go this route then what you should be aiming at is a database of example code and more importantly a well documented THEORY behind the code so aspiring coders could look up example sprite routines etc and adapt to what they need.

the c64 scene has a similar site: http://codebase64.org/doku.php (http://codebase64.org/doku.php)

I tried to do this with:

Example Z80 assembly programs (was:ASM source code) (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/programming/asm-source-code/)

and

Unofficial Amstrad WWW Resource (http://www.cpctech.org.uk)

forum based ones never seem to work, they get too big to be useful because you cant actively search them.

web based ones like the second are the way to go but IMHO you need to catagorise it "Sound" "Graphics>sprites" "graphics>tiles" etc, make it searchable and you're on to a winner.

that should basically be a community project by coders for coders (and aspiring coders)

there must be a wiki template do this surely?

What I don't like about this poll is that, there are some generic options (ok)... but there are games listed there... some names even weren't mentioned here, and others that were mentioned here several times (different people) don't... what's the procedure to put some games on the poll and not others?

Shut yer moaning  If you want a game listed tell me , I am not fannying around trying to work out who wants what .

You want to compile the list then go ahead and I will implement it . Or better still You put up a Poll with how it is meant to be done.


Didn't particularly want individual games in the first place  because ,where does it stop,thats why they are tagged onto the end .

Quote from: Puresox on 16:19, 12 August 15
You want to compile the list then go ahead and I will implement it . Or better still You put up a Poll with how it is meant to be done.


Didn't particularly want individual games in the first place  because ,where does it stop,thats why they are tagged onto the end .

I don't want to compile any list, as you said where it stops? Then i don't know why still are games on this list...

The title of the threat is "what new game..." perhaps is a wrong title, perhaps, "what kind of game..." i'm sure that everyone have 1 or 2 titles that  want to be on this list, and at the end it will be 100 games!

I was just saying... if "mario bros" is there, i don't know why "lotus 3" is not there or "warcraft"... i don't really mind if my game is not in the list, but if others are to vote to...

You compile it or someone compile it  and we can re do it. At the end of the day we can be perfectionists about it after the debate has started. But the important thing is to get the ball rolling . The debate has begun and peoples views are being aired. The important thing though, is not to end up going in circles , but make continual steps toward getting this done. I am sure their are people on here that know the steps that are  too be made and can put forward a plan to work too. I am not the person who has the answers , but would like to see this project develop.

I think the answer is 128k and something original judgin by the results so far.... lets choose a genre and a similar game ( or something that doesnt ). This is the easy stage. Whats next?

1. Do we stick skills lists here and form 2 or 3 competing teams. "I wanna be on team 'Brill' cos team 'Garbage' are rubbish!"
2. Get as much cash as we can raise and try to pay somebody to do it
3. Hope somebody does it anyway (Tried and doesnt really work)

Team Garbage speaking... now open for applications!  :laugh: :P 8)

Competing teams is a good incentive, but double the funding

Quote from: Puresox on 20:00, 12 August 15
Competing teams is a good incentive, but double the funding

Why? Only pay the winner. That's competition. If you don't want that then make one big team. Who would participate anyway? I'm curious about that.


Anyway, I need somebody to paint some little Kangaroos for me. Either MODE 1 or 0, but I need them until the end of the month. Anybody up to? Else I have to cancel it.

Well yeah if it is done that way , I see what you mean.
  Well then the big question who's gonna put their hat  in the ring then ?

Quote from: jbaudrand on 06:57, 12 August 15
I really wish sigh will finish that promising beat them all.

As stated by arnoldemu, it's still in development:) Once I get the female template and female big boss out the way, things will move a lot faster graphically.

In regards the 4 other voters who chose "other"* like myself, it would be interesting to know what it is that you had in mind?



* As mentioned earlier, for me it's a music game.

Quote from: arnoldemu on 12:59, 12 August 15
cpctelera?

Everything would be on the up & up for it I presume? Code doesn't have to be firmware driven so would compile all relevant code (from a Library it selects) and leave plenty of memory.

Coz Tower defense will be there in the future  :P , I voted for cpc-plus game. How nice would it be to see a plus-game beating-out the 16-Bit machines...


But my main favorite, which was not on the list, would be a scumm-like funny adventure on CPC.




To give just my 2 cents for the development-discussion:


As Targhan posted, developing a game in your spare-time takes its time and you have to get focused to finish it. I also have and had many ideas to put in defence but besides of the memory-restriction, I had to make a cut somewhere not to get lost in all the imaginable features. So best of all will be, like in professional developement, to define all the nice things before you start developing.

Quote from: Shining on 15:01, 13 August 15

But my main favorite, which was not on the list, would be a scumm-like funny adventure on CPC.

Just saying (again  ;) ), how many times scumm-game has been mentioned?

We all now that we want scumm ported to our powerful CPC!!

I think that here is a start from something related to scumm...

I looked into scummvm some time ago and it seemed to me that the games, we are speaking about on cpc (Maniac Mansion or Zack) are emulated completely different than the others and only existed as byte-code. Did someone find these with the scumm-code intact ?


On german-wikipedia-article about scumm there is an example out of maniac mansion:
script clock-tick { do { clock-state = not clock-state object living-room-clock state clock-state play-sound clock-tick break-here 60 } }
[/size]cut-scene { ... actor nurse-edna in-room edna-bedroom at 60,20 camera-follow nurse-edna actor nurse-edna walk-to 30,20 wait-for-actor nurse-edna say-line nurse-edna "WHATS'S YOUR POINT ED!!!" wait-for-talking nurse-edna ... }



I think, when this is not available,  better way to get something like this is to make something like scumm but not scumm itself on cpc.
When you then separate gfx-handling form the rest you have an easy approach to reach this goal on cpc,msx and speccy.

some msx-team are doing monkey island for msx2 called donkey island...

I really don't know how 3 systems so similar, amstrad, msx and spectrum with a HUGE base, dont join forces and make scumm all together

You really want to make a SCUMM game?   You're gonna need a lot of graphics...

(that wasn't a offer, just a statement of the ridiculousness of the concept.   If you're gonna collaborate for the first time... pick something SIMPLE!  Just so you can find out if you even get along.  Start small.   Start reeeeally small)

(http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/resource://jid1-xgtdawe3yyuebq-at-jetpack/data/download_off.png)

right I am going to alter the Voting unless you don't want me too , I will take off all individual games , but will add SCUMM game too the list , you can redo your votes I believe.

any objections?!

Quote from: Puresox on 18:20, 13 August 15... you can redo your votes I believe.

No, except you change the poll.  :)

I can change it and reset the votes , but will it allow to re vote?

EDIT: nevermind...

Quote from: Puresox on 18:45, 13 August 15
I can change it and reset the votes , but will it allow to re vote?

If you reset the votes it should.

SCUMM should be more easy to port using the X-MEM + X-MASS combo.

Quote from: TotO on 21:40, 13 August 15
SCUMM should be more easy to port using the X-MEM + X-MASS combo.

or SF2!! ;P

HEHE. ;)
I said that because most SCUMM games used lot of RAM and files on a hard dive directory.
Doing the same should help a lot for a Monkey Island port, ...

Right poll reset  Everyone can vote a fresh  with specific games removed Only memory restrictions and Genre as options

Crafty voting eh!

Here is my offer £100 for a decent version of River Raid! all you have to do is rob the third level off Assault on port Stanley beef it up a little and there you go  as easy as that ! ;D

Quote from: Puresox on 22:28, 13 August 15
Right poll reset  Everyone can vote a fresh  with specific games removed Only memory restrictions and Genre as options

I can't vote  :( , perhaps the poll is not letting vote who did before?

maybe a plus version of Savage?

Quote from: Joseman on 13:35, 16 August 15
I can't vote  :( , perhaps the poll is not letting vote who did before?

Quote
Voting closed: Yesterday at 19:28:43

I believe that might be the reason why you cannot vote, Joseman... the poll is now closed! However we're nowhere nearer to deciding what to do. Maybe another poll to pass the time? Maybe someone actually taking some initiative and doing something? Who knows. The suspense, personally, is killing me.

What's the reason for close a poll so quickly!!

i don't understand some people...

Are we playing some type of "i'm god" game?

What a mess... this is not serious...

Quote from: Joseman on 16:24, 16 August 15
What's the reason for close a poll so quickly!!

i don't understand some people...

Are we playing some type of "i'm god" game?

What a mess... this is not serious...

Look Chap , rather than get your knickers in twist , make up a new poll on a new thread . It's as simple as that , I'm not particularly interested in redoing the poll , because the discussion has run dry , there does not appear to be anyone who wishes to take this project on to the next stage. So maybe you can relight the fire and get things moving .

Quote from: Puresox on 16:41, 16 August 15
Look Chap , rather than get your knickers in twist , make up a new poll on a new thread . It's as simple as that , I'm not particularly interested in redoing the poll , because the discussion has run dry , there does not appear to be anyone who wishes to take this project on to the next stage. So maybe you can relight the fire and get things moving .

Puresox, this is not serious, really, no offense.

You put an unbalanced poll, some people tells you that is not right (not only i), then you change the poll and close it in a rush!! really??

Next you talk about offering 100 pounds for i don't know what game... i even not know if you're joking, when here some people (as I) are offering 1000 euros for some games...

Really, no offense, but this is not serious...

Look you're making assumptions, so just you make a poll and then you can be the boss. I didn't close the poll early , the poll is restricted from the time that it was first implemented, so after resetting the votes I was not given the option to re establish a closing date . I am not particularly bothered to set up a new poll myself  because I was hoping that a project leader may rise to the surface who has the skills in this field if . I cannot see the point in talking the talk if nobody is prepared to walk the walk.

Quote from: Joseman on 16:47, 16 August 15
Puresox, this is not serious, really, no offense.

You put an unbalanced poll, some people tells you that is not right (not only i), then you change the poll and close it in a rush!! really??

Next you talk about offering 100 pounds for i don't know what game... i even not know if you're joking, when here some people (as I) are offering 1000 euros for some games...

Really, no offense, but this is not serious...

You are not  English Speaking  , so I do not expect you to understand the subtleties of tongue in cheek . From a different language

The tone of my posts after the poll alteration are flippant because I am losing interest.
But there is hope , You maybe are the man who can! Seriously

I don't understand the rudeness; it's not only the "look chap" comment or the "you are not an English Speaking" (sic) but also previous posts.


In any case, I've edited and re-opened the poll. Please everyone be constructive and considerate.

The best thing is too wipe the poll and start afresh  whoever wants to compile it can do , the poll is not  particularly made up as people want it,as is apparent .

Quote from: Puresox on 17:19, 16 August 15
You are not  English Speaking  , so I do not expect you to understand the subtleties of tongue in cheek . From a different language

The tone of my posts after the poll alteration are flippant because I am losing interest.
But there is hope , You maybe are the man who can! Seriously

And then we complain that no project is finished on the cpc scene...

I don't mind to speak Spanish, English or even French if this will help the CPC scene...

but you can continue making jokes about that... i don't mind.

What a pity...

Communication breakdown , forget it , I was making allowances for you not having English as your mother tongue . Not making fun of you not understanding something from another language , I have only respect for people who make the effort to talk in an other language . I am not going to try and discuss this any futher. 

So let's be nice to each other again!

For me : Brand New Original Idea and 128K

For the 128K, i really don't think that you can have a decent 128k game if it's not been thinked at this size from the start... I really don't believe that aiming at 64K and offering some extras for 128k will unveil all the possibilities of this configuration.
And i think, to have a maximum "WAHOO effect" we need 128K, even if it's sad to let down a few users.
I really feel 128k is the good mix between authenticity and possibilities.

Brand New Original Idea seems also the way to go to avoid all the licencing stuff and allow to taylor the game the best it's possible.

Totally agree with that. And if 512 KB are there, just use them. (But don't make em a prerequisite).  :)

Sorcery for Spectrum as a really crappy port: PAYBACK TIME! [emoji6]


Gesendet von meinem iPhone mit Tapatalk

I would like an amazing game that shows off and pushes the gx4000 as much as possible so that it is on par or exceeds anything the master system did just to show once and for all that it was a good capable little machine.

A sprite editor if possible so that we can go back and re-colour double dragon.

Quote from: seanb on 12:18, 23 August 15
I would like an amazing game that shows off and pushes the gx4000 as much as possible so that it is on par or exceeds anything the master system did just to show once and for all that it was a good capable little machine.

A sprite editor if possible so that we can go back and re-colour double dragon.

Considering the quality of some of the games that were brought out at the beginning of the system (I know there were many duds,of course) but you have some lovely looking and impressive moving games also . There is nothing lacking in this system IMO.  I would also like to see what it could do if it had been pushed to it's limits.

Something I remembered, I was playing Minecraft recently, how about a sandbox/resource management game similar (but in 2d of course)

I'd like to see a FPS of some sort, even with a Wolf3D-type engine, similar to what has been achieved on the "Atari 8-bit"  (XL?):





Realistically, it would have to be a Mode 0 game, with two-pixel-wide "rendering units", so that one byte can be used to write two pixels to the screen directly, without the need to perform time-consuming bit shifting.

Quote from: Velktron on 11:43, 08 September 15
I'd like to see a FPS of some sort, even with a Wolf3D-type engine, similar to what has been achieved on the "Atari 8-bit"  (XL?):

Well, I am working (again) on this :)

how about "the Apprentice"? staring alan sugar

There really ought to be a version of Beamrider on the Amstrad , great but simple game versions' are on Intelivision and 2600 (So what size are we looking 4k?) ,It  is on everyother platform but our's??This doesn't seem right, this also goes for River Raid although slightly larger programme I'd think.

I would like to see:

- Toki
- Joe & Mac
- A decent version of Pang/Super Pang for the CPC (and not Zapt'n'balls... the movement and the splitting of the balls really sucks!!!)
- Worms
- RPG like games.
- Ghost'n'goblins reloaded.
- Snow Bros

   With regards to some previous posts about targeting 64k/128k/512k etc... what motivates me personally is the challenge of squeezing up to the last bit whilst giving the best possible results. Personally I love loading from tape (yes... some games have a quite personal loading feeling and are nice to see). Apart from that it always give me time to prepare my Nutella (nocilla) bread slice and my ColaCao while it finishes loading.

   But yes... 128k always give you more freedom specially at having more space for putting there those nice graphics that most of the CPC games lack. It might be not practical targeting 64k but it's more of a challenge for lots of people I guess...

Quote from: pacomix on 10:53, 14 September 15
I would like to see:

- Toki
- Joe & Mac
- A decent version of Pang/Super Pang for the CPC (and not Zapt'n'balls... the movement and the splitting of the balls really sucks!!!)
- Worms
- RPG like games.
- Ghost'n'goblins reloaded.
- Snow Bros

Thanks for typing this for me  ;D

I would have thought that GnG arcade/reloaded in 160x200 in 16 colours would be an awesome addition the cpc.

based on the experience of doing the c64 one, an amstrad one would have to be disk and 128k tho. the c64 one is BIG, it fills the whole ram and loads too.
therefore an amstrad one by virtue of the screen memory size will be an order of magnitude bigger.

It could however look bloody lovely and the lack of 50hz scroll would be of minimal impact because GnG is a very "stop/start" scrolling game anyway so you wouldnt notice.

pretty much all the c64 graphics assets would work "as is" (then tweaked for additional colour) except the progress map because that uses mixed hi res/mc mode and would need amended to just 160/200. and the score area would probably have to be redone in 4 colour hires mode for the text to be readable. All attainable tho really.

cheated poll, it was previously 13 votes for a 512K memory game!  ;D

Quote from: TotO on 14:26, 16 September 15
cheated poll, it was previously 13 votes for a 512K memory game!  ;D

Well, like my old math teacher always told back the day: Never thrust a poll which you didn't manipulate by yourself.  8)

Quote from: STE86 on 13:32, 16 September 15
... and the lack of 50hz scroll would be of minimal impact because ....

Why not 50 fps scroll?

Sod the poll , we need some project leaders in the CPC Zone . The production rate for the Amstrad is a bit lacking of late .

I volunteer for project leader and helping hand for any kind of game which will be made for FutureOS.  :)

Quote from: TFM on 18:37, 16 September 15
I volunteer for project leader and helping hand for any kind of game which will be made for FutureOS.  :)

Are there any good threads or is there any info to explain what FutureOS is all about? Sorry if this is a dumb question , but I haven't a clue what the In's and Outs are of FutureOS?

Quote from: Puresox on 19:02, 16 September 15
Are there any good threads or is there any info to explain what FutureOS is all about? Sorry if this is a dumb question , but I haven't a clue what the In's and Outs are of FutureOS?

Thanks for asking. Well in this forum we have a dedicated thread about it here:
FutureOS corner (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/programming/futureos-corner/)

The CPCWiki has a page about it:
FutureOS - CPCWiki (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/FutureOS)

Software and the handbook are available here:
http://www.FutureOS.de (http://www.futureos.de)


The advantages for making a game are:
- Use nearly all memory (OS needs a minimum of 2 KB RAM)
- Use all 2nd registers of the Z80, significant speedup
- Use all RST's and IM 2 if needed, 2 screens possible
- Quick loading & saving
- Use different screen formats (64 x 32, 80 x 25 etc)
- Memory management
- direct access to hardware is ok
- TFM is eager to provide help for it  ;)

Disadvantages are:
- It need some kind of Flash or ROM card. like an X-MEM

Great stuff

Quote from: TFM on 17:12, 16 September 15

Why not 50 fps scroll?

because the the c64 version scrolls at 1px (thats 1 square pixel)/frame because its hardware can do that regardless of the actual pixel size on screen.
AFAIK the amstrad cant do this and would therefore scroll 1doublepx/2 frames to keep the same scroll rate for gameplay.

also I think its VERY optimistic to think that any old computer running sw spriting and scrolling on such a big screen is going to stay within 50hz enough to make it worthwhile.
we could never get the spectrum,bbc or atari ST to do it and have yet to see anything worthwhile do it on the amstrad to make me think otherwise.

Just spotted Skool Daze has been converted to the CPC ! Genius, I imagine it is just an early version , but great to see

Quote from: Puresox on 15:24, 17 September 15
Just spotted Skool Daze has been converted to the CPC ! Genius, I imagine it is just an early version , but great to see

Well I had a lot of plans with skool daze, but the 2 jobs this 2 months previous and that things changed  on my mind and now i've another plans with my life and some other projects (not exactly cpc related).

I want to finish Skool Daze in a way that the game can be completed, and nothing more right now.

I don't want to let the project unfinished.

in the next months i will try to finish the conversion this way

Quote from: STE86 on 14:00, 17 September 15
because the the c64 version scrolls at 1px (thats 1 square pixel)/frame because its hardware can do that regardless of the actual pixel size on screen.
AFAIK the amstrad cant do this and would therefore scroll 1doublepx/2 frames to keep the same scroll rate for gameplay.

also I think its VERY optimistic to think that any old computer running sw spriting and scrolling on such a big screen is going to stay within 50hz enough to make it worthwhile.
we could never get the spectrum,bbc or atari ST to do it and have yet to see anything worthwhile do it on the amstrad to make me think otherwise.

Hi! Yes the usual CPC scroll is two MODE 0 pixel per 'move'. But if you use two screens, then you can move one pixel per 'move'. I say move here, but I mean per frame.

We have quite some games on CPC scrolling at 50 fps, I have two games in WIP which actually scroll in 50 fps in Overscan. When using not more than 16 KB V-RAM then things are 50% more easy anyway.

Now you can use two screens and have 50 fps with 1 pixel scrolling, or save one screen and scroll with 2 pixel at 50 fps. But please don't go for 2 pixel at 25 fps - that looks jerky.  :)


EDIT: If somebody is seriously going to make a game, I will gladly share my scrolling engine. However, what ever one needs to make proper scrolling can be found at Arnoldemus homepage.  :)

Quote from: TFM on 18:16, 17 September 15
Hi! Yes the usual CPC scroll is two MODE 0 pixel per 'move'. But if you use two screens, then you can move one pixel per 'move'. I say move here, but I mean per frame.

He's saying the C64 game is doing half a mode 0 pixel per move/frame...

Quote from: TFM on 18:16, 17 September 15
Hi! Yes the usual CPC scroll is two MODE 0 pixel per 'move'. But if you use two screens, then you can move one pixel per 'move'. I say move here, but I mean per frame.

My CRTC knowledge might be clumsy, but isn't the HW registers 12 and 13 scrolling at two bytes per time? (&C000, &C002, &C004, etc)
That would mean 4 Mode 0 pixels, or 8 mode 1 pixels, literally the character's width in basic, so we are more screwed.
Then with double buffering you can have shifted backgrounds as you say, thus 2 Mode 0 pixels scroll, which I think would be fine for specific games but maybe too fast for others.
To get to 1 pixel Mode 0 scrolling you'd have to go four framebuffers, which is a no-no for memory, unless maybe you do split screen for scoreboard and have 4 framebuffers of smaller in height screens, still a reduced 12kb multiplied by 4 would fill 48k and leave 16k for code and data.


I still love the C64 model of scrolling. 8x shifter on both X and Y and char based video mode helps with moving the small amount of data one char right or up after the shift loops. Also ideal for tiled based backgrounds, which are a norm in oldschool consoles and help save memory and move data faster. Now, CPC+ has those shifters too, but still you have to complete bytes at the edges of the screen, no hw charmode. It helps a lot, but I would still have an easier time making pixel perfect scrolling on C64 in all directions.

Quote from: Optimus on 10:33, 21 September 15

My CRTC knowledge might be clumsy, but isn't the HW registers 12 and 13 scrolling at two bytes per time? (&C000, &C002, &C004, etc)
That would mean 4 Mode 0 pixels, or 8 mode 1 pixels, literally the character's width in basic, so we are more screwed.
Then with double buffering you can have shifted backgrounds as you say, thus 2 Mode 0 pixels scroll, which I think would be fine for specific games but maybe too fast for others.
To get to 1 pixel Mode 0 scrolling you'd have to go four framebuffers, which is a no-no for memory, unless maybe you do split screen for scoreboard and have 4 framebuffers of smaller in height screens, still a reduced 12kb multiplied by 4 would fill 48k and leave 16k for code and data.

TFM is talking about using CRTC R3 as well, so you could have 1 mode 0 pixel scrolling with two screens.  I am not convinced myself how effective it would be to use offset screens in a game requiring a push scroll though.  It means you need to cope with sprites updating on the visible screen if no scrolling is required, and managing that potential flicker issue will cost time.

If we're talking scrolling then I vote for a sonic game.
Let's show that c64 lot how you do fast scrolling.

Quote from: Axelay on 11:47, 21 September 15

TFM is talking about using CRTC R3 as well, so you could have 1 mode 0 pixel scrolling with two screens.  I am not convinced myself how effective it would be to use offset screens in a game requiring a push scroll though.  It means you need to cope with sprites updating on the visible screen if no scrolling is required, and managing that potential flicker issue will cost time.

You are exactly right Sir. An example for 1 Pixel MODE 0 scrolling (multidirectional) is Burnin Wheels, let me see if I find a link [nb](except that one on my homepage, because that's for FutureOS only).[/nb]


Found:
burning wheels &copy _public_domain_ (1987) (http://cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=635)

On Scrolling Note, Hopping Mad by Elite has a nice scrolling style that graduates well , it would have been nice to have been implemented in Uridium in stead of the two stage scrolling that is too fast or too slow.

Quote from: Puresox on 16:44, 21 September 15
On Scrolling Note, Hopping Mad by Elite has a nice scrolling style that graduates well , it would have been nice to have been implemented in Uridium in stead of the two stage scrolling that is too fast or too slow.

Ja, that's very true. 4 speed wouldn't have been a problem for the CPC. But it was a speccy port. Would be nice to see an Easter Egg 128 KB Uridium one day.

Have you seen Hopping Mads scrolling? Btw

Honestly not, but let me just walk over to CPC-Power and take a look... will be back in a minute  ;) :)


Looks like it hat 25 fps and 1 Pixel MODE 1 scrolling, but this is just by eyeballing it.

Quote from: Optimus on 10:33, 21 September 15
Now, CPC+ has those shifters too, but still you have to complete bytes at the edges of the screen, no hw charmode. It helps a lot, but I would still have an easier time making pixel perfect scrolling on C64 in all directions.

You don't have to worry about the edges on the CPC+, you can just switch on hardware masking. And then you can scroll in half-C64 pixel increments....

Yes, the Plus is an awesome computer, underestimated by the most.

I think we can close this thread, the guy is probably gone, knowing we'll never make up our minds...  ;D