Quote from: fano on 22:02, 19 January 10
CPC POWER ? (http://www.cpc-power.com)
i know its off topic but is there a game base in here...??
forgive mu ignorance and lack of viewing the cpcwiki wat is cpc power ??
Getting off-topic here but yes, my decision has been to create a Gamebase here. The underlying system is ideally suited to something of the sort, and anyone can add comments or reviews to any game. Also, I'll add a general point-awarding add-on so the users can vote for a game's quality...
Quote from: Gryzor on 11:54, 21 January 10
Getting off-topic here but yes, my decision has been to create a Gamebase here. The underlying system is ideally suited to something of the sort, and anyone can add comments or reviews to any game. Also, I'll add a general point-awarding add-on so the users can vote for a game's quality...
Sounds like a really good idea..
By gamebase do you mean each game an individual article on the CPCWIKI, and then add a Comments plugin for the mediawiki software.
Like this plugin:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ArticleComments (http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ArticleComments)
I really think that games information should be linked into the existing Mediawiki framework
Just a thought!
/Ygdrazil
You nailed it, this plugin is great. I had found something similar a while ago but couldn't get it to work. I'll install this at home, hopefully tonight.
And yes, I mean each game having its individual article.
Quote from: Ygdrazil on 12:10, 21 January 10
Sounds like a really good idea..
By gamebase do you mean each game an individual article on the CPCWIKI, and then add a Comments plugin for the mediawiki software.
Like this plugin:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ArticleComments (http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ArticleComments)
I really think that games information should be linked into the existing Mediawiki framework
Just a thought!
/Ygdrazil
Can't get it to work for the time being... check out http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Gryzor , at the bottom: it worked in a previous version I implemented, but the comments went to the Discussion page. Tried to make it so that it posts the comments on the article page, but see what happens? It's because we're using short, Google-friendly urls, but the script follows the old, complex url form. I'll try and dig into the php code and see what happens.
On a related note, it needs to be modified to prevent spamming, too.
Cheers
Gryzor
Hmmmm..
I will have a look on some other Mediawiki powered sites, where I have seen that the commenting works.. And find out what plugin they are using.. It seems there is many different plugins that does commenting and pool stuff..
I shall return!
/Ygdrazil
Quote from: Gryzor on 19:03, 21 January 10
Can't get it to work for the time being... check out http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Gryzor , at the bottom: it worked in a previous version I implemented, but the comments went to the Discussion page. Tried to make it so that it posts the comments on the article page, but see what happens? It's because we're using short, Google-friendly urls, but the script follows the old, complex url form. I'll try and dig into the php code and see what happens.
On a related note, it needs to be modified to prevent spamming, too.
Cheers
Gryzor
Are there? I looked around quite a bit, but didn't find anything else apart from this one, mysteriously...
In any case, it is not critical. Besides, you need to add the < comment > tag at the end of each article in order to have the functionality. Not impossible, but we'll have to do it for each game entry. Alternatively we just go on with the Edit function...
Now, the scoring system is a bit trickier; there is a single plugin, but from what I saw it's quite complex to install. And usually complex stuff doesn't work with Mediawiki because of all the versions etc, but I may give it a try. There's also a paid plugin ($5), I'll have to email the authors...
Hi Gryzor
PM time!
/Ygdrazil
Quote from: Gryzor on 09:16, 22 January 10
Are there? I looked around quite a bit, but didn't find anything else apart from this one, mysteriously...
In any case, it is not critical. Besides, you need to add the < comment > tag at the end of each article in order to have the functionality. Not impossible, but we'll have to do it for each game entry. Alternatively we just go on with the Edit function...
Now, the scoring system is a bit trickier; there is a single plugin, but from what I saw it's quite complex to install. And usually complex stuff doesn't work with Mediawiki because of all the versions etc, but I may give it a try. There's also a paid plugin ($5), I'll have to email the authors...
any chance of contacting malc of cpczone fame see how he gor the zone gamebase done ?
Problem is Malc does not respond!!
Quote from: cpc4eva on 21:08, 22 January 10
any chance of contacting malc of cpczone fame see how he gor the zone gamebase done ?
Quote from: Ygdrazil on 00:27, 23 January 10
Problem is Malc does not respond!!
thats sad really sad.....
anyway he might come around ???
send him something to cheer him up ???
Maybe a MJ glove? Would be quite expensive...
ahem...
A gamebase is some sort of different task than the CPCwiki.
It would need it's own portal, no ?
a proper Gamebase means 4000+ games pages...
Add the Games developpers pages, and so on...
Would it be limited to "only the very best" or have to cover absolutly all games ?
But as CPC power does actually exist and is well done, why not simply put link to it, and get it a proper english version ?
Quote from: MacDeath on 21:06, 27 January 10But as CPC power does actually exist and is well done, why not simply put link to it, and get it a proper english version ?
That's why i mentionned CPC POWER.
QuoteA gamebase is some sort of different task than the CPCwiki.
No it's not :) read the wiki's description. How can we let the games out of it? :) Actually, I always wanted to have a games encyclopaedia as well in here. The reason I hadn't done it, as with the forums, was that the Zone was in full swing and I didn't want to steal any of its wind.
For me, there are three aspects in a retro community: the online community (forum), a knowledge base (a wiki maybe) and the gamebase (you can figure this one out). Now, the Zone had two out of three when it was alive, and I didn't want to interfere with it. But now we have two out of three here, and I see no real reason why not go all out on the third point as well.
QuoteIt would need it's own portal, no ?
Probably so, a portal would be ideally suited to the Gamebase.
Quotea proper Gamebase means 4000+ games pages...
Add the Games developpers pages, and so on...
So? :) On one hand, it's a huge challenge. On the other hand, it's a huge opportunity. Yes, we'll probably start off with the very best. We should compile a skeleton list with all the entries and categories first, then if you clicked on a game that doesn't have anything you could start writing... The ultimate goal would be to include, indeed, all titles. Btw, where does that 4000+ come from? This must include Public Domain and whatnot... How many titles are there in the CPCGamesCD?
QuoteBut as CPC power does actually exist and is well done, why not simply put link to it, and get it a proper english version ?
Quote from: fanoThat's why i mentionned CPC POWER.
Well:
-A link is nothing. I added a link on the wiki (I can't believed we didn't have a link up to now! A shame!...). Should we link to Google and say "we have everything"? :D
-It's french. It smells of cheese and snails and frog legs. ...just kidding :D You say make an English translation for it or something. Well, that's up to them, not us, though. Still, I'll take it a step further; over time we have discussed the possibility of a merger of sorts with a games-based site. I have also exchanged emails with other members of the scene on this issue. But, technically, we can't see how it could be done... How would it be done in this case? Bear in mind that a database system like this wiki's system is ideally suited to the task. Also, CPC-Power's content is not what I have in mind. There are lots and lots and lots of entries with only basic info... so it's not like all the material is there and all that needs to be done is translate it.
y the way, I have talked with Nich and he has agreed to let us use the content of his site (CPC Games Reviews) as a starting point. We will, of course, give him and the site the fullest credit possible. So we already have some good material to build on.
By the way, I have talked with Nich and he has agreed to let us use the content of his site (CPC Games Reviews) as a starting point. We will, of course, give him and the site the fullest credit possible. So we already have some good material to build on
I can see your points but I have got used to the French websites now (even though my French is awful, but if I get stuck then I use Babel Fish (http://babelfish.yahoo.com/)) and can't see the point in re-inventing the wheel for a lot of the content.
The French sites are also usually funny (I like the introspective French humour) and keen to share knowledge. Some of this might get lost if it's translated or replicated...?
Je salue mes amis français de CPC!
If you recall there was a quite long discussion on the (inter)national fragmentation of the CPC scene on the Zone. Lots of interesting opinions in there...
Well, in any case, if you see my points I'm not sure where the objection lies. A lot of material IS duplicated online anyways, this does never mean one should not try and incorporate that material in what will (hopefully) be a better solution...
So be it.
Just adding a game wiki-portal and start the stub of the obvious games first.
Then, copy paste some of the texts : mostly the team who made the games, usual informations and so on.
Add pictures and so on.
Put in right categories too.
The CPCwiki yet include a good amount of games indeed...it's a start.
Aah. From the beginning again? So disappointing. I too wish Malc at least provided some material to help the beginning of a new project. It seems though something happened to make him completely loose interest. AFAICR, in the old CPCZone forum, he had mentioned he had some serious family problems. I do hope everything is OK and at some point in the future he'll be back, active and contributing as he was till about 2 years ago.
Ok, let's start doing this. Anyone has a plain-text list of all the games released, that we could use to begin?
@Wanderer: I know :( I do wish we had more to work on myself. Yes, I remember his problems, nothing to laugh at really, and it surely justifies dropping anything and everything else. BUT, he could at least pass the materials on...
It gets worse, though: Nich was kind enough not to blow the whistle publicly, but I must apologize, for he never gave me permission to use the reviews themselves. For some reason I had this idea stuck in my head, but upon checking our emails I saw he only gave permission for the peripheral materials...
Concerning the Zone: what happened is another reason to make this site as complete as possible (thanks for pointing that out, Ygdrazil!). In the past we've linked to articles and pages to the Zone - and now it's all down... see where I'm going with this? And, of course, when I mentioned that the database of the wiki is ideally suited was because you can interlink all sorts of stuff and group them together, so it's not just a listing of games with reviews...
Quote from: Gryzor on 11:42, 29 January 10
Ok, let's start doing this. Anyone has a plain-text list of all the games released, that we could use to begin?
Being a programmer myself (nothing to do with web programming though), if any data-manipulation is needed now, in the beginning of this project (converting stuff, db import/export, etc), i'd be happy to help.
Thanks, mate, will keep it in mind!
Btw, you think this list has it all?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Amstrad_CPC_games
Also, let's discuss on the structure of the database - what criteria we're gonna use etc... For instance, Game categories, Developers, Publisher, Country, year etc...
Quote from: Gryzor on 11:51, 29 January 10Btw, you think this list has it all?
Don't know but it's certainly a good place to start. Of course, there's always the T.A.C.G.R./NVG resources...
Yes, but TACGR or NVG don't have a complete list - I mean as a list, do they?
Quote from: Gryzor on 12:07, 29 January 10
Yes, but TACGR or NVG don't have a complete list - I mean as a list, do they?
TACGR has a list but it seems it's not in a single page. There's one page per letter. They could be combined though and merged with the wikipedia list.
Problem with TACGR is that it's around 4 years out of date now. Since that point Nich has updated NVG on a numbe of occassions so I'd be reluctant to use that data.
I'd be more inclined to use the HTML from NVG itself, there's a page there that has links to every game/programme/manual etc broken into different categories, it's a self contained page though and would form a pretty decent starting point - after that we'd have to look at CPC Power and have a think about filtering in the huge amount of French PD and the compilations...
But NVG would make a good start IMO
It might also be an idea to come up with a robust format for layout before we all rush off and start doing our own thing - it's not absolutely necessary of course but I feel it would be a better approach if we had all of the game pages with a sense of uniformity (where possible)
Quote from: Ritchardo on 14:01, 29 January 10It might also be an idea to come up with a robust format for layout before we all rush off and start doing our own thing - it's not absolutely necessary of course but I feel it would be a better approach if we had all of the game pages with a sense of uniformity (where possible)
NVG sounds great.
We could always get some ideas from TOSEC (http://www.tosecdev.org/) about what fields/tables might be needed for a database to hold all the data.
The "games recomandation" topic may be a good start for games that have to be covered "first"...
As wr know them (because we recommanded them).
The CPCwiki yet includes Games categfories and page.
Those should be put in a portal page maybe.
Concerning games categories :
http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php?title=Category:Games&until=Return+of+the+Sisters
There are some subcategories yet.
those concerning style of gazmes do have Page and Category :
Platform, shoot them up, RPG, Adventure...
I put them in "*" in the subcategory list.
Also put Vaporware and Games Programming at top of the list.
Oh, it seems there a 2 categories :
"Game map" and "Game Map".
This lead to an aspect i'd like to get cleared : the use of Bold letters.
It seems the wiki engine is a bit straight with it.
If you include bold letters or not, you simply find another or no page...
What's our politic with this ?
I'm the kind of guy to prefer putting bold letters on each words but...many other wikians don't.
What sould we decide ?
The same goes with the use of plurials, I know I screwed a lot with it.
Example : we may put games in "Game map featured" category, and the media of said map in "Game maps" perhaps so this category would only include the medias.
But the proper use of the letter "S" is not easy for a french like me.
Game Map
Game map
Game maps
Game Maps
game's map
Game's Maps
and so on...
the "Game map" category seems to include a lot of stuff yet i couldn't manage to get to it.
It must include mostly Medias IMO.
But a "Game map included" stuff may be more suitable perhaps ?
If i go at a "Game Map" cetegorized page (games) I have a Game map media shown.
If I go at this media's page, it is often put in "Games map" category.
Examples :
http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Roland_on_the_Ropes
This page include a picture of a map, probably from the speccy version (the"speccymap" site is great).
As a result it was put in the "Games Map" category.
I click on this picture :
http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:Roland_on_the_ropes_map.jpg
This one is put in the "Games map category"
If i click on the "Game map" category i get this :
http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php?title=Category:Game_map&action=edit&redlink=1
and the page is blanck...WTF ?
"&action=edit&redlink=1" instructions seems to screw with it.
http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php?title=Special:Categories&dir=prev&offset=Magazines&limit=100
in this Categories full list, it seems the "Game map" has 364 members...
Yet it seems broken too.
Sample :
# Game Manual (19 members)
# Game Map (6 members)
# Game cover (26 members)
# Game inlay (48 members)
# Game manual (1 member)
# Game map (364 members)
# Game solution (1 member)
Those categories would need some cleanup and/or standardisation.
also the same mess up was done concerning game manual/Manual.
BTW, the Category system is great in that it allows to display subcategories, Pages and Medias all automatically put in lists.
I corrected this with Prehistorik :
http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:Prehistorik_map.jpg
So it appears in the "Game Map"
I confess most of my post is more "categories and wiki procedures" related.
Quote from: Wanderer on 14:16, 29 January 10
NVG sounds great.
We could always get some ideas from TOSEC (http://www.tosecdev.org/) about what fields/tables might be needed for a database to hold all the data.
Hmmmm I see little of use for us on the TOSEC... most of it deals with the TOSEC files - i.e. bad dumps, viruses etc... or am I missing something?
Quote from: Gryzor on 17:42, 29 January 10
Hmmmm I see little of use for us on the TOSEC... most of it deals with the TOSEC files - i.e. bad dumps, viruses etc... or am I missing something?
I'm not talking about that. There could be other things that could give us ideas. For instance, the database will probably contain not only games but apps too. Apart from the creator / publisher name, a "type" field would be needed and perhaps a "sub-type" one (i.e. games-arcade or apps-graphics).
TOSEC's TNC page (http://www.tosecdev.org/index.php/tosec-naming-convention?start=1) contains the following info:
Quote from: TOSEC SITETitle version (demo) (Year)(Publisher)(System)(Video)(Country)(Language)(Copyright status)(Development status)(Media Type)(Media Label)[Dump info flags][more info]
I've made bold the items i believe may be needed for a database. That's what i meant by "ideas from TOSEC". There's no need to reinvent the wheel. :)
EDIT: This info came from a quick pass i made at the TOSEC's TNC page, it's not a final proposal.
About list of games.
You can look at the inventory of CPC-Power :
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=jeux&onglet=inventaire
There are some interesting lists.
Quote from: Ritchardo on 14:01, 29 January 10I'd be more inclined to use the HTML from NVG itself, there's a page there that has links to every game/programme/manual etc broken into different categories.
There's also a CSV file (
00_table.csv) that contains a lot more information than the HTML files, including all the fields that are found in the
file_id.diz files included with each program. It would be better (and probably easier) to use the CSV file.
Ok, if such a task is to begin, how should it be organized? Perhaps a new thread should be created under "CPCWiki Discussion" or "General Discussion" in which all who wish to help will participate with more specific proposals?
@Wanderer (all all the rest...)
Child Boards: Pages and categories changes
this would be more suited IMO.
As Games are potentially heavy users of the category system...
As a "child board"...let use it for this task as it is put on a height from other mundane subjets....
Hmmm, right. Perhaps a new child board then, "Wikibase" or "Wiki Gamebase" in order for all the relevant posts to be there without getting mixed-up with other not-so-relevant posts?
Later on, when the project matures, this forum's contents could be joined with "Pages and categories changes", if it's found appropriate.
Ah yes. In this regard we could start perusing the CPC TOSEC (I think I have it lying around somewhere). Of course the type and subtype fields are mandatory :D
I can provide you my whole database, NVG and CGR in mysql included.
Contact me at my gmail address : genesis8bit